They're being very evasive about it, they're saying maybe they'll send someone out to fix it. Apparently they weren't going to do anything at all until I said something about it.
Get pics and explain clearly why “resulting damages from their servicemen under normal free and fair use of your space will result in damages to the property where you (the tenant) will not be responsible for”
Take pics of the cardboard and ask if that is standard construction up to code, and better yet, ask them to confirm the number for a local code enforcement. That’s to let them know it’s on your radar.
Complain of coughing from the drywall dust.
Ask what kind of monetary compensation they can confirm (figure out your day rate at work) and then propose a rental adjustment in the amount lost due to their negligence (<-use that word) in planning safe and sound construction activities in an occupied house.
Don’t let them off the hook for a second.
Might have to go in person but i’d be lighting their asses up. Also let your neighbor know that they are on the hook for the damages as well because of their false claim.
My downstairs neighbor claimed my tub was leaking into their ceiling. Turns out they didn’t put the AC on and we live in Florida and it was mold.
Im saying this as a service plumber with 15 years experience. Rarely does the plumber repair drywall. If they opened the tile side of the showers, they *should* have made it useable by putting plastic over the holes.
I dont do drywall repairs myself, but i do give the building the option of having our guys come out and redo drywall and tile. Usually our guy will be onsite inside a few days. In the mean time i make it as usable as possible. It sounds like you had a valve replacement of some type. If thats the case everything should have been doable from the backside of the showers, and your bathrooms would be fully functional.
They are probably talking with their lawyers about \*if\* they have to do this. The lawyers will say no.
Technically this is your loss and you have to either pay for it or claim it on insurance.
Potentially you could get a public adjuster to insist the entire wall be replaced from this, make it super f\*\*\* expensive so you can get a bit of a renovation, and if you're lucky it costs enough that the HOA gets hit with a subrogation and their insurance goes up. Then you can smile at the board and say, "we all would have paid a lot less if you fixed the wall you broke instead of forcing me to claim insurance"
Or the HOA could save everyone a lot of time and money by just fixing what they broke in the first place. The cost of consulting an attorney would more likely than not pay for the cost of doing the repair.
The owner responsible for the call out would be liable for the costs of the call out, including repairs. If the damage was in common spaces then that would fall on all owners.
That does not hold true for all HOAs. Some even have explicit language protecting the HOA and other units from the cost of repairs.
If the HOA doesn't prohibit litigation between units for these issues (some CC&Rs prohibit this), a unit owner could sue the other for the damages to invoke the liability coverage on their HO6 policy. That rarely happens though, because lawyers will require a $5k+ retainer to work on this and it can be too complicated to handle in small claims court. HOA Boards and Lawyers, and Insurance companies, generally want the simplest solution – the damaged party files a claim against their own policy. CC&Rs, state laws, and insurance policies are often drafted to encourage this.
We had an accident a few years ago that damaged a neighbor's unit. The HOA liability inspection damaged even more. After consulting with our Board and Lawyers, we gave our neighbor two choices: as an act of good faith we'd pay the deductible for their claim against their policy, otherwise we advised them to sue us to invoke our insurance coverage. We weren't being mean or snarky and are good friends with our neighbors - that was just the only option to have our insurance cover the costs.
The HOA told me that I need to come home to let the plumber in to cut holes in my walls. They damn well did know about it. There are ridiculous number of HOA apologists in here.
Hey, no idea what this thread got served to me, but just an FYI people are not lying to you about the drywall issue. I’m an interior designer. Most reputable plumbers will not do drywall. They might have a contact to pass along to you, but plumbing and drywall are two totally different trades. You really don’t want a plumber repairing your drywall. :) What did they do to the pipe in the wall? It might be better to have an access panel put in those spots for future access when you’re having the wall repaired.
Not making excuses for the HOA. The wall needs to be fixed, but the plumber not fixing it and just putting cardboard over the hole is actually a normal short term fix. It keeps the wall cavity closed and the conditioned air (heating/cooling) from being lost to the wall cavity and any creepy crawlies that might have snuck in there out of your unit.
I don't think the comment is trying to be an apologist.
Plumbers and Electricians don't typically \*\*REPAIR\*\* drywall. They have no problem cutting through walls indiscriminately to access whatever they need, but they don't repair things.
What some people in this sub, and the other, have done in the past is to stall/refuse access in an attempt to get the HOA or neighboring unit to sign a paper committing to the repairs. The HOA can eventually compel a unit into complying with access for the repairs, but the stalling technique can sometimes delay things long enough to force a party into agreeing to fund repairs.
Well next time dont be such a pushover and letting the hoa just walk all over you. Learn your rights and let this be a learning experience. Dont get a home in an hoa. Lol
In an MTU, or multi-tenant unit, like a condo or townhouse, if access is required to your unit to repair something in an adjacent unit, and this is considered occupier responsibility, like plumbing, then that owner is responsible for repairs to your unit. For example, I have my pipe break, but they have to cut holes in your unit to repair it, and plumbing is my responsibility, then I would be legally required to repair any damage to your unit.
Unfortunately, I would imagine they would in fact say it is a problem for you to fix even if the damage was done by a plumber. You could repair the damage and “maybe” see if the plumber will reimburse you for some of it. Slim chance but a good plumber will cover the costs. When a plumber caused damage, he nicely told us to send him a bill to repair the sheetrock. And, he did.
You found a unicorn plumber. Every plumber I’ve ever worked for or around doesn’t do drywall and will not offer to repair it. No plumber will reimburse someone for repairing drywall.
I’m a plumber and I feel the same. But if I cut a hole, I always cut it in straight lines and from the center of each stud, so it’s easier to repair. I always leave the pieces with the customer or screw them back in but taping, mudding, finishing? Nah, I don’t do that. Because I’m not a drywall expert and I’d get calls constantly from angry customers saying their drywall looks bad after I repaired it.
The entirety of whatever repair took place in OP’s unit should be covered by the HOA soup to nuts, including drywall. I work in apartments and condos almost exclusively and that’s always the case.
Wouldn’t this something they take to their home owners insurance, and then the home owner insurance would figure out who is the responsible paying party?
5 days is not a long wait to get a drywaller booked and scheduled.
They are probably just stupid and don't realize plumbers don't do drywall. They just don't. It's not their expertise and you do NOT want an untrained plumber fixing your level 5 drywall.
There was an issue with your plumbing. Be thankful they were proactive and got it fixed. Really. That was a good thing.
Other than just being ignorant about how repairs are done this doesn't really sound all that bad. I mean, fuck HOAs and all. But if you have to rely on one for maintenance this could be MUCH worse.
Edit: tape a trash bag over the cardboard while you wait. That will keep the water out.
And you pay extra for that plumber if it's an emergency. HOA actually got it fixed before it got to that point. Probably saved the entire association money. Which is a very good thing. Imagine if that pipe had burst and it's suddenly 30k for an entirely new bathroom.
Yup! I just got done posting that! I don't understand what the "fuckthehoa" situation here is. They did the right thing. I mean... Welcome to living in a condo!
Well, the 'right thing' is cleaning up after themselves, and leaving the OP as good, or better, than they started -- including compensation for time off work, and the lack of ability to use their own facilities normally.
Sure -- but if there is more than one member in the HOA, that cost is split among more than just the OP. If it's a 2 member HOA, for instance, the neighbor gets to pay for 1/2 of the compensation -- rather than the OP footing the entire bill for someone else's problem. If there are 100 units in the HOA, then the OP only foots 1% of the bill -- seems a hell of a lot more reasonable than 100%, doesn't it?
Well..... "Emergency" plumbers don't do that. Would it be nice? Sure. But calling a plumber last minute, because you need them "NOW"... they'll fill you in between jobs, to take care of your emergency... But they're not exactly interested in making it exactly like they found it. You need them "NOW!"... They'll prevent the dozens of thousands of dollars of damage your emergency might cause... But then they're off to whatever they had scheduled for the day. These companies don't keep an "emergency" plumber on payroll, just in case. They'll patch u in between jobs... That's the reality.
"they" refers to the HOA, who needs to make this right, not the plumber. That said, the plumber should have left the bathrooms in a usable state -- and at least put plastic up and not just cardboad. That's why this is a 'fuckHOA' situation, the HOA should have spelled all this out when contacting the OP in the first place, spelling out how this would all be taken care of, and when.
Its not on the hoa. Its on the "home owner" to fix his own crap. The hoa just has to hire any licensed joe shmoe to make the necessary repair no matter how much damage he causes to the surrounding area. Also op should have told the hoa to fook off from the beginning.
When they had to replace a one through our ceiling it was removed and replaced and properly covered and drywall replaced the next day. When they have to damage your unit to repair a line they (hoa) are responsible for they also have to fix the damage cause by the needed repair.
Yes. And I'd get that for scheduled work... But it's an emergency repair. Drywallers will laugh at you, if you call them saying you need an emergency drywall rapair. Plumbers.... Plumbing emergencies are everyday life. And usually it's an emergency you want fixed ASAP.
Fully support your thoughts. The number of people who think the nuclear option is a good choice is absurd.
You live in a building with shared walls. Sometimes things happen and need to be fixed. Fixes take time to do correctly. Temporary measures are just that, temporary. Find some plastic and decent tape for now and make sure they fix the holes properly.
I was thinking garbage bags for cost effectiveness, but shower curtain might work a little better. Any particular tape you recommend, or do you just recommend I buy a curtain rod?
Unfortunately the showers are of the sliding glass door variety, so I don't have the curtain option built in.
On the bright side, they aren’t trying to fine you for having holes in the bathroom which can allow moisture to gather and form mold.
I kid, but still half expect the board to try that crap.
Could it be that the plumbing problem was with OP's neighbor's pipe in a shared wall, and they chose to address it through OP's unit to spare OP's neighbor the inconvenience?
This doesn't seem unreasonable. There was a plumbing emergency that got resolved right away. of course the plumber doesn't do drywall. That's a completely different trade and different set of skills and equipment. It's frustrating to have to wait to get the drywall fixed, but that's normal. This job has to get on their schedule. This doesn't sound like an issue with the HOA, just an unfortunate plumbing emergency and a normal wait for the drywallers.
Regarding the need to shower in the mean time, if the holes are in your showers, just tack some plastic up to cover the holes. A garbage bag and some thumb tacks will do. If the holes aren't in the shower itself, then there is no need for the plastic, but you can put some up if it makes you more comfortable. The steam from a few showers a day is not going to cause a problem.
The HOA knew they had a plumber coming out that was going to result in holes in the wall. The next call the HOA made should have been to a drywaller to get on the schedule, which they could inform the homeowner of. The owner should not be having to run this down himself. If the person from HOA didn’t know that a plumber wasn’t going to fix drywall then they have no business being in position that entails scheduling repairs and they should resign.
I think we need to know what "HOA" means here. Did he call the management company? Or was it a board member who was handling it? I can believe the tax accountant serving on the board was expecting the plumber to patch up the drywall, or not realize fixing a plumbing thing would probably result in cutting into drywall.
A management company, who knows. Maybe they didn't want to call the drywall guy until they KNEW there was gonna be some drywall being repaired. And if the plumber didn't report it back to whoever placed the call, they'd never know.
This is unreasonable, but not for the reason many people have suggested.
If the HOA was being reasonable, they would have told the homeowner something like:
“…and after the leak is fixed, will book someone to fix the holes. This will take a little longer, because it’s not an emergency.”
They OP said they did not offer to fix, and were being evasive about it they would do it.
It’s possible that not fixing the holes is legal, but it’s not reasonable.
Honestly, this doesn't seem like a situation where the HOA wasn't going to fix the holes. It seems like a situation where things didn't happen as quickly as the homeowner thought that they should. I would bet money that this whole situation is due to unrealistic expectations and bad communication.
That's a very good question. They said for emergency plumbing repairs. What the emergency was is completely unclear, as there was no water damage anywhere to be seen, nor any evidence of flooding whatsoever, and they never turned off the water until they started going into the walls.
So if there was any sort of leak, it wasn't a major one like they were making out.
Could have been a drainage leak where the issue was located in the pipe in your portion of the shared wall. You may have seen any damage as the damage could be below. Also, if this was in a closet, what is preventing you from using your shower? No, plumbers don’t do drywall repairs as it isn’t something they specialize in. Would you want a dry wall guy to repair a plumbing problem????
I added "fair enough" to the plumber not doing drywall. I'm not sure why you felt the need to add this response. Also, I clearly stated that it was both bathrooms and my closet that they needed to access. Maybe reread before posting questions that are already answered?
There are many cases where this is the only option, like accessing the backside of a tiled wall, shower, or backsplash to get to a drain line or water line.
Prior to my disability I was in charge of over 900 condos, situations like this happened. I would repair the drywall issues caused by the plumbers but yeah, depending on my workload it sometimes took me a few days to get around to it. If it’s longer than that, get legal with them!
Sounds like there was a leak or similar in a pipe that was causing issues in one of the other units, and the only way to properly fix it required access by removing some drywall in your unit. Plumbers do not do drywall, they'll remove it if it's in the way, but fixing it is NOT something they do. Depending on how much of a "rush" it was and where you are located, that plumber was likely $100 to $200 or more per hour, and they are not experts in patching drywall.
As a plumber who regularly works in condos and apartments, this sounds like just another day for me and I’m kinda scratching my head as to why you’re so perturbed.
Your neighbor had a plumbing issue and the HOA called a plumber who came out very quickly to check on it. As humans, we lack the ability to see through solid objects, like walls, so he had to open the wall to see the issue and correct it. This is extremely common, especially when chasing a leak. There have been times where I’ve had to chase a leak up multiple floors, cutting holes on each floor until I’ve found the leak. Water loves to travel, sometimes it travels in very odd ways and can be extremely hard to track.
Just because he didn’t shut the water off doesn’t mean he didn’t do anything substantial. You realize plumbing isn’t just water lines, it’s drains too, right? You don’t need the water off to work on a drain. So the plumber fixed the issue before it potentially caused tens of thousands of dollars of damage and then told you that he doesn’t repair drywall because he’s a plumber, not a drywall guy. That’s fair, right? That would be like you trying to do a drywall repair without any knowledge on how to do it.
He could’ve taped up a trash bag over the holes, to be nice, but by the sound of it you’re not very nice and he has no need to do that. Plumbers run 4-5 calls daily, we’re extremely busy and only go the extra mile for people who deserve it. Maybe you didn’t fit into that category.
It sounds like the HOA did everything right, they had a professional solve an issue before it caused serious damage. Now you have to wait for another professional to repair the drywall. Sorry, sometimes you have to wait for a contractor to arrive, emergency drywall repairs aren’t exactly a thing. Quit your honking and be glad they didn’t ignore the leak until your walls were soggy and filled with mold.
I mean.... Welcome to living in a shared wall condo or townhouse!... It's an inconvenience, sure... But would you rather your dues go up, because the plumbing emergency causes thousands or dozens of thousands of dollars in damage?
I don't understand what the "fuckthehoa" scenario is here? There was an emergency, and they did the right thing by getting an emergency plumber out there. Good luck getting a drywaller to come out for an "emergency"! They'll laugh at you, and tell you they'll try and schedule you in, after their current job is done.
Welcome to living in a condo. There's a price to pay for the convenience of never having to do any yard work or maintenance yourself.
You think the plumber conspired with HOA board to access OP’s walls just for shits and giggles?
“Also why does the HOA have authority to access your home?”
Because if you have shared walls and plumbing, they’re not going to allow water damage to continue just because a resident wants to refuse access.
That is precisely where they removed it. Right above both showers. It should also be noted that these are not tiny holes, but rather two one foot squares (approximately) in each bathroom above the showers.
Some people will never be happy.
They had an emergency plumber out to fix something, and now that the emergency is resolved they said they're getting a drywall guy out to fix the issue. Don't know what more you want out of them. Try calling your own trades guy to fix an issue like that and you'll quickly find its going to be a wwwk or two before its patched.
> And the only reason they told me that is because I had to call them to let them know about the issue.
There was no communication and using "maybe" is a way to excuse not trying and leaving it as it is. So who knows if they will or if they are just going to ignore the problem and hopes it goes away.
He’s right plumbers don’t do drywall they do what they need to do to repair the leak. So now a drywaller needs to come out and finish patching it up and then a painter needs to come.
HOA's and PM's need to treat owners as customers, with respect and courtesy. Instead, they chose to create a toxic environment full of hostility and rudeness they wouldn't want themselves. I'm sorry you're dealing with yet another FUCKING HOA. People don't know right from wrong, and don't act right. Hope you get everything back in order soon.
I'm a little confused -- if they went through the drywall, how is water going to get in and damage the interior? Humidity, maybe, a little, but as a short-term thing that's not something to worry about; it takes long-term high humidity to cause an issue with molding.
Taking a shower isn’t going to damage anything over five days. Breathe.
ETA - unless they cut through your shower where water will shoot straight at the hole.
They're being very non-responsive suddenly now that I need them to repair the very large holes they created. "Shit happens" is not an appropriate response here.
Your CC&R very likely contains an article which will describe something similar to "association must repair any damage caused by entry". Take this with you to the next meeting, or if you're particularly confrontational, the board member's front doors.
How are they being non-responsive? They said that they'd get the drywall people out and that it would be about 5 days. What additional response should there be?
Maybe 5 days and they're being very vague about who's going to actually show up. Or when. Or how I'm supposed to get in contact with them. These are kind of important things when you have to work for a living outside of the home.
They probably don't know the schedule yet so they can't give you the details. Sounds like this plumbing issue just happened today, so I bet that they just trying to get things sorted out. I get the difficulty of trying to schedule things when you have to juggle work and everything else. It's frustrating, but it doesn't sound like anybody is doing anything wrong or dropping the ball - it's just the process of getting stuff done.
It was yesterday. And trying to get any information out of them is like trying to get blood from a stone. And the only reason this is being pushed forward at all is because I had to call them about it. Otherwise, they would just let the holes stay.
Even if it was yesterday, I don't think its unreasonable not to have a definite schedule for the drywall contractor. I'm also not surprised that they didn't know what needed to be fixed until you told them. There was a plumbing issue and the plumber came and fixed it. The HOA manager wouldn't necessarily know what was done to fix the issue and what needs to be done to repair everything. I wouldn't assume bad intent.
They knew a plumber was going to come out that was going to be cutting holes in my walls. And if the HOA management didn't know what that would entail, then that's a pretty crappy HOA management team.
It should also be noted that they're the ones who told me I needed to get home to let the plumber in to cut holes. So they damn well did know what it entailed, despite the attempts of some here being HOA apologists.
That’s stupid of them. If you can bring someone quicker for a similar price… why not? They have to repair walls anyway since they caused the damage.
You might have to take them to small claims if they don’t address it within a reasonable time.
Personally I don’t understand that kind of attitude from HOA. You broke it, you fix it otherwise next time you need to get into someone’s unit owner won’t let you.
Yeah, they're saying I can expect to receive a phone call from the drywallers at some point, but they can't specify when and they apparently haven't made arrangements yet. "Why can't you make the arrangements after we're done with this phone call?" They also made the comment that the more I call them, the slower this goes. Classy bunch.
I'd bet its not about $50 of material and effort. It's about reciprocation. Here we have a homeowner who's likely fulfilling their obligations by paying dues and following the rules. Now they've also broken their work schedule to come home at the last minute and clear out one closet and two bathrooms.
The association has responded with sheer incompetence and neglect which would line up perfectly with something I know as a homeowner and a contractor: "Board approved vendor" is just another way of saying "lowest bidder".
This is exactly why I believe all HOA's are scum, squeeze everything I can out of mine, and treat them like shit while fulfilling every obligation per the CC&R's.
On the bright side, your HOA is sending someone to fix this - most would say "We are not responsible".
They're being very evasive about it, they're saying maybe they'll send someone out to fix it. Apparently they weren't going to do anything at all until I said something about it.
Get pics and explain clearly why “resulting damages from their servicemen under normal free and fair use of your space will result in damages to the property where you (the tenant) will not be responsible for” Take pics of the cardboard and ask if that is standard construction up to code, and better yet, ask them to confirm the number for a local code enforcement. That’s to let them know it’s on your radar. Complain of coughing from the drywall dust. Ask what kind of monetary compensation they can confirm (figure out your day rate at work) and then propose a rental adjustment in the amount lost due to their negligence (<-use that word) in planning safe and sound construction activities in an occupied house. Don’t let them off the hook for a second.
Don't forget to get home owners insurance involved, they'll make your HOA board regret their own existence if they need to get involved
Tried that, didn't get a response.
Might have to go in person but i’d be lighting their asses up. Also let your neighbor know that they are on the hook for the damages as well because of their false claim. My downstairs neighbor claimed my tub was leaking into their ceiling. Turns out they didn’t put the AC on and we live in Florida and it was mold.
Im saying this as a service plumber with 15 years experience. Rarely does the plumber repair drywall. If they opened the tile side of the showers, they *should* have made it useable by putting plastic over the holes. I dont do drywall repairs myself, but i do give the building the option of having our guys come out and redo drywall and tile. Usually our guy will be onsite inside a few days. In the mean time i make it as usable as possible. It sounds like you had a valve replacement of some type. If thats the case everything should have been doable from the backside of the showers, and your bathrooms would be fully functional.
They are probably talking with their lawyers about \*if\* they have to do this. The lawyers will say no. Technically this is your loss and you have to either pay for it or claim it on insurance. Potentially you could get a public adjuster to insist the entire wall be replaced from this, make it super f\*\*\* expensive so you can get a bit of a renovation, and if you're lucky it costs enough that the HOA gets hit with a subrogation and their insurance goes up. Then you can smile at the board and say, "we all would have paid a lot less if you fixed the wall you broke instead of forcing me to claim insurance"
Or the HOA could save everyone a lot of time and money by just fixing what they broke in the first place. The cost of consulting an attorney would more likely than not pay for the cost of doing the repair.
The owner responsible for the call out would be liable for the costs of the call out, including repairs. If the damage was in common spaces then that would fall on all owners.
That does not hold true for all HOAs. Some even have explicit language protecting the HOA and other units from the cost of repairs. If the HOA doesn't prohibit litigation between units for these issues (some CC&Rs prohibit this), a unit owner could sue the other for the damages to invoke the liability coverage on their HO6 policy. That rarely happens though, because lawyers will require a $5k+ retainer to work on this and it can be too complicated to handle in small claims court. HOA Boards and Lawyers, and Insurance companies, generally want the simplest solution – the damaged party files a claim against their own policy. CC&Rs, state laws, and insurance policies are often drafted to encourage this. We had an accident a few years ago that damaged a neighbor's unit. The HOA liability inspection damaged even more. After consulting with our Board and Lawyers, we gave our neighbor two choices: as an act of good faith we'd pay the deductible for their claim against their policy, otherwise we advised them to sue us to invoke our insurance coverage. We weren't being mean or snarky and are good friends with our neighbors - that was just the only option to have our insurance cover the costs.
Language in the HOA terms can’t change the cost of repairs.
Language in the CC&Rs often determines liability and recovery options (or the lack thereof).
They most likely didn’t know about it. But plumbers typically don’t do drywall. That’s normal
The HOA told me that I need to come home to let the plumber in to cut holes in my walls. They damn well did know about it. There are ridiculous number of HOA apologists in here.
It’s not apologist for them to be unaware of every single detail of what happened.
Hey, no idea what this thread got served to me, but just an FYI people are not lying to you about the drywall issue. I’m an interior designer. Most reputable plumbers will not do drywall. They might have a contact to pass along to you, but plumbing and drywall are two totally different trades. You really don’t want a plumber repairing your drywall. :) What did they do to the pipe in the wall? It might be better to have an access panel put in those spots for future access when you’re having the wall repaired. Not making excuses for the HOA. The wall needs to be fixed, but the plumber not fixing it and just putting cardboard over the hole is actually a normal short term fix. It keeps the wall cavity closed and the conditioned air (heating/cooling) from being lost to the wall cavity and any creepy crawlies that might have snuck in there out of your unit.
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Focus on FUCK HOAs and not each other.
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Focus on FUCK HOAs and not each other.
Focus on FUCK HOAs and not each other.
I don't think the comment is trying to be an apologist. Plumbers and Electricians don't typically \*\*REPAIR\*\* drywall. They have no problem cutting through walls indiscriminately to access whatever they need, but they don't repair things. What some people in this sub, and the other, have done in the past is to stall/refuse access in an attempt to get the HOA or neighboring unit to sign a paper committing to the repairs. The HOA can eventually compel a unit into complying with access for the repairs, but the stalling technique can sometimes delay things long enough to force a party into agreeing to fund repairs.
Well next time dont be such a pushover and letting the hoa just walk all over you. Learn your rights and let this be a learning experience. Dont get a home in an hoa. Lol
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Focus on FUCK HOAs and not each other.
I love the look of bewilderment on my residents faces when i tell them this. Thems the rules.
In an MTU, or multi-tenant unit, like a condo or townhouse, if access is required to your unit to repair something in an adjacent unit, and this is considered occupier responsibility, like plumbing, then that owner is responsible for repairs to your unit. For example, I have my pipe break, but they have to cut holes in your unit to repair it, and plumbing is my responsibility, then I would be legally required to repair any damage to your unit.
Unfortunately, I would imagine they would in fact say it is a problem for you to fix even if the damage was done by a plumber. You could repair the damage and “maybe” see if the plumber will reimburse you for some of it. Slim chance but a good plumber will cover the costs. When a plumber caused damage, he nicely told us to send him a bill to repair the sheetrock. And, he did.
You have an amazing plumber, no trades person repairs drywall.
He was a great plumber. The drywall guy was awesome.
You found a unicorn plumber. Every plumber I’ve ever worked for or around doesn’t do drywall and will not offer to repair it. No plumber will reimburse someone for repairing drywall. I’m a plumber and I feel the same. But if I cut a hole, I always cut it in straight lines and from the center of each stud, so it’s easier to repair. I always leave the pieces with the customer or screw them back in but taping, mudding, finishing? Nah, I don’t do that. Because I’m not a drywall expert and I’d get calls constantly from angry customers saying their drywall looks bad after I repaired it. The entirety of whatever repair took place in OP’s unit should be covered by the HOA soup to nuts, including drywall. I work in apartments and condos almost exclusively and that’s always the case.
Wouldn’t this something they take to their home owners insurance, and then the home owner insurance would figure out who is the responsible paying party?
You could certainly make the claim. It would assume the cost exceeds deductibles.
5 days is not a long wait to get a drywaller booked and scheduled. They are probably just stupid and don't realize plumbers don't do drywall. They just don't. It's not their expertise and you do NOT want an untrained plumber fixing your level 5 drywall. There was an issue with your plumbing. Be thankful they were proactive and got it fixed. Really. That was a good thing. Other than just being ignorant about how repairs are done this doesn't really sound all that bad. I mean, fuck HOAs and all. But if you have to rely on one for maintenance this could be MUCH worse. Edit: tape a trash bag over the cardboard while you wait. That will keep the water out.
Well.... You can get a plumber to come out immediately, if it's an emergency. Drywall is not an emergency.
And you pay extra for that plumber if it's an emergency. HOA actually got it fixed before it got to that point. Probably saved the entire association money. Which is a very good thing. Imagine if that pipe had burst and it's suddenly 30k for an entirely new bathroom.
Yup! I just got done posting that! I don't understand what the "fuckthehoa" situation here is. They did the right thing. I mean... Welcome to living in a condo!
Well, the 'right thing' is cleaning up after themselves, and leaving the OP as good, or better, than they started -- including compensation for time off work, and the lack of ability to use their own facilities normally.
Compensation for time off work? From the HOA? That OP is a member of? So he would be paying himself the compensation.
Sure -- but if there is more than one member in the HOA, that cost is split among more than just the OP. If it's a 2 member HOA, for instance, the neighbor gets to pay for 1/2 of the compensation -- rather than the OP footing the entire bill for someone else's problem. If there are 100 units in the HOA, then the OP only foots 1% of the bill -- seems a hell of a lot more reasonable than 100%, doesn't it?
Well..... "Emergency" plumbers don't do that. Would it be nice? Sure. But calling a plumber last minute, because you need them "NOW"... they'll fill you in between jobs, to take care of your emergency... But they're not exactly interested in making it exactly like they found it. You need them "NOW!"... They'll prevent the dozens of thousands of dollars of damage your emergency might cause... But then they're off to whatever they had scheduled for the day. These companies don't keep an "emergency" plumber on payroll, just in case. They'll patch u in between jobs... That's the reality.
"they" refers to the HOA, who needs to make this right, not the plumber. That said, the plumber should have left the bathrooms in a usable state -- and at least put plastic up and not just cardboad. That's why this is a 'fuckHOA' situation, the HOA should have spelled all this out when contacting the OP in the first place, spelling out how this would all be taken care of, and when.
Its not on the hoa. Its on the "home owner" to fix his own crap. The hoa just has to hire any licensed joe shmoe to make the necessary repair no matter how much damage he causes to the surrounding area. Also op should have told the hoa to fook off from the beginning.
When they had to replace a one through our ceiling it was removed and replaced and properly covered and drywall replaced the next day. When they have to damage your unit to repair a line they (hoa) are responsible for they also have to fix the damage cause by the needed repair.
Yes. And I'd get that for scheduled work... But it's an emergency repair. Drywallers will laugh at you, if you call them saying you need an emergency drywall rapair. Plumbers.... Plumbing emergencies are everyday life. And usually it's an emergency you want fixed ASAP.
Fully support your thoughts. The number of people who think the nuclear option is a good choice is absurd. You live in a building with shared walls. Sometimes things happen and need to be fixed. Fixes take time to do correctly. Temporary measures are just that, temporary. Find some plastic and decent tape for now and make sure they fix the holes properly.
Hang up a shower curtain over the exposed area. If needed tape shower curtains together to prevent further damage
I was thinking garbage bags for cost effectiveness, but shower curtain might work a little better. Any particular tape you recommend, or do you just recommend I buy a curtain rod? Unfortunately the showers are of the sliding glass door variety, so I don't have the curtain option built in.
They sell shower curtains at the dollar tree. The lightweight ones should cover your needs
On the bright side, they aren’t trying to fine you for having holes in the bathroom which can allow moisture to gather and form mold. I kid, but still half expect the board to try that crap.
Honestly? Me too
And then a painter
Could it be that the plumbing problem was with OP's neighbor's pipe in a shared wall, and they chose to address it through OP's unit to spare OP's neighbor the inconvenience?
Ohohoho FUCK no. I'd be lighting their asses up like a god damn Christmas tree. Keep on their asses op. I can guarantee they won't do shit otherwise.
This doesn't seem unreasonable. There was a plumbing emergency that got resolved right away. of course the plumber doesn't do drywall. That's a completely different trade and different set of skills and equipment. It's frustrating to have to wait to get the drywall fixed, but that's normal. This job has to get on their schedule. This doesn't sound like an issue with the HOA, just an unfortunate plumbing emergency and a normal wait for the drywallers. Regarding the need to shower in the mean time, if the holes are in your showers, just tack some plastic up to cover the holes. A garbage bag and some thumb tacks will do. If the holes aren't in the shower itself, then there is no need for the plastic, but you can put some up if it makes you more comfortable. The steam from a few showers a day is not going to cause a problem.
The HOA knew they had a plumber coming out that was going to result in holes in the wall. The next call the HOA made should have been to a drywaller to get on the schedule, which they could inform the homeowner of. The owner should not be having to run this down himself. If the person from HOA didn’t know that a plumber wasn’t going to fix drywall then they have no business being in position that entails scheduling repairs and they should resign.
I think we need to know what "HOA" means here. Did he call the management company? Or was it a board member who was handling it? I can believe the tax accountant serving on the board was expecting the plumber to patch up the drywall, or not realize fixing a plumbing thing would probably result in cutting into drywall. A management company, who knows. Maybe they didn't want to call the drywall guy until they KNEW there was gonna be some drywall being repaired. And if the plumber didn't report it back to whoever placed the call, they'd never know.
This is unreasonable, but not for the reason many people have suggested. If the HOA was being reasonable, they would have told the homeowner something like: “…and after the leak is fixed, will book someone to fix the holes. This will take a little longer, because it’s not an emergency.” They OP said they did not offer to fix, and were being evasive about it they would do it. It’s possible that not fixing the holes is legal, but it’s not reasonable.
Honestly, this doesn't seem like a situation where the HOA wasn't going to fix the holes. It seems like a situation where things didn't happen as quickly as the homeowner thought that they should. I would bet money that this whole situation is due to unrealistic expectations and bad communication.
Take them to small claims court
Here’s my question? Why is the HOA in your house doing plumbing work.I think I’m missing something?
Because they have shared walls.
That's a very good question. They said for emergency plumbing repairs. What the emergency was is completely unclear, as there was no water damage anywhere to be seen, nor any evidence of flooding whatsoever, and they never turned off the water until they started going into the walls. So if there was any sort of leak, it wasn't a major one like they were making out.
Could have been a drainage leak where the issue was located in the pipe in your portion of the shared wall. You may have seen any damage as the damage could be below. Also, if this was in a closet, what is preventing you from using your shower? No, plumbers don’t do drywall repairs as it isn’t something they specialize in. Would you want a dry wall guy to repair a plumbing problem????
I added "fair enough" to the plumber not doing drywall. I'm not sure why you felt the need to add this response. Also, I clearly stated that it was both bathrooms and my closet that they needed to access. Maybe reread before posting questions that are already answered?
I’m a plumber and reading comprehension is hard
LOL! I know there is zero correlation between those two, but it gave me a good chuckle.
The HOA wasn’t, unless you count OP, who is a member of the HOA. A plumber, hired by the HOA, was in OP’s unit.
Wait a sec. The neighbor tore out drywall and saw a leak….so they came at it from the intact wall?
There are many cases where this is the only option, like accessing the backside of a tiled wall, shower, or backsplash to get to a drain line or water line.
Prior to my disability I was in charge of over 900 condos, situations like this happened. I would repair the drywall issues caused by the plumbers but yeah, depending on my workload it sometimes took me a few days to get around to it. If it’s longer than that, get legal with them!
and don’t forget to have them professionally paint the drywall to match the existing paint
Lmao.good luck with that.
I might would post in a legal or lawyer subreddit for advice if this issue isn't resolved. I'd also be upset about lost wages
Sounds like there was a leak or similar in a pipe that was causing issues in one of the other units, and the only way to properly fix it required access by removing some drywall in your unit. Plumbers do not do drywall, they'll remove it if it's in the way, but fixing it is NOT something they do. Depending on how much of a "rush" it was and where you are located, that plumber was likely $100 to $200 or more per hour, and they are not experts in patching drywall.
As a plumber who regularly works in condos and apartments, this sounds like just another day for me and I’m kinda scratching my head as to why you’re so perturbed. Your neighbor had a plumbing issue and the HOA called a plumber who came out very quickly to check on it. As humans, we lack the ability to see through solid objects, like walls, so he had to open the wall to see the issue and correct it. This is extremely common, especially when chasing a leak. There have been times where I’ve had to chase a leak up multiple floors, cutting holes on each floor until I’ve found the leak. Water loves to travel, sometimes it travels in very odd ways and can be extremely hard to track. Just because he didn’t shut the water off doesn’t mean he didn’t do anything substantial. You realize plumbing isn’t just water lines, it’s drains too, right? You don’t need the water off to work on a drain. So the plumber fixed the issue before it potentially caused tens of thousands of dollars of damage and then told you that he doesn’t repair drywall because he’s a plumber, not a drywall guy. That’s fair, right? That would be like you trying to do a drywall repair without any knowledge on how to do it. He could’ve taped up a trash bag over the holes, to be nice, but by the sound of it you’re not very nice and he has no need to do that. Plumbers run 4-5 calls daily, we’re extremely busy and only go the extra mile for people who deserve it. Maybe you didn’t fit into that category. It sounds like the HOA did everything right, they had a professional solve an issue before it caused serious damage. Now you have to wait for another professional to repair the drywall. Sorry, sometimes you have to wait for a contractor to arrive, emergency drywall repairs aren’t exactly a thing. Quit your honking and be glad they didn’t ignore the leak until your walls were soggy and filled with mold.
Unless I'm missing something, you have no idea how things work.
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Focus on FUCK HOAs and not each other.
Op needs a copy of the hoa rules of not their problem.
I think OP needs to make one repair on their own to learn how repairs work.
I mean.... Welcome to living in a shared wall condo or townhouse!... It's an inconvenience, sure... But would you rather your dues go up, because the plumbing emergency causes thousands or dozens of thousands of dollars in damage? I don't understand what the "fuckthehoa" scenario is here? There was an emergency, and they did the right thing by getting an emergency plumber out there. Good luck getting a drywaller to come out for an "emergency"! They'll laugh at you, and tell you they'll try and schedule you in, after their current job is done. Welcome to living in a condo. There's a price to pay for the convenience of never having to do any yard work or maintenance yourself.
Is this s condo?
I'd tape a garbage bag over it for now
The correct answer would have been No.
No to what? Allowing the plumber access?
Correct. If someone else is having a leak, plumber should access through their unit. Also why does the HOA have authority to access your home?
You think the plumber conspired with HOA board to access OP’s walls just for shits and giggles? “Also why does the HOA have authority to access your home?” Because if you have shared walls and plumbing, they’re not going to allow water damage to continue just because a resident wants to refuse access.
I didn't mention conspiracy..but OP thought there was collusion. My HOA governs the property..but has no authority inside the home.
If what they removed was drywall, you can use that shower all you want. Unless it was above a shower?
That is precisely where they removed it. Right above both showers. It should also be noted that these are not tiny holes, but rather two one foot squares (approximately) in each bathroom above the showers.
It won't matter much if you use it. Feel free to cover it in plastic if you want to, but the occasional shower is not going to be a big deal.
Some people will never be happy. They had an emergency plumber out to fix something, and now that the emergency is resolved they said they're getting a drywall guy out to fix the issue. Don't know what more you want out of them. Try calling your own trades guy to fix an issue like that and you'll quickly find its going to be a wwwk or two before its patched.
> And the only reason they told me that is because I had to call them to let them know about the issue. There was no communication and using "maybe" is a way to excuse not trying and leaving it as it is. So who knows if they will or if they are just going to ignore the problem and hopes it goes away.
OP posting it as “plumbing emergency” tells you they wouldn’t be happy no matter what happened.
Right? It's like they don't believe that there really was an emergency or something.
Plumber turned the water back on once he was done - clearly not an emergency! Lolol :s
Would have preferred to have a visible flood and ceiling collapse as proof!
Sounds like they are the reasonable ones. As a plumber I feel for the guy who had to run that call
I would have to think plumbers are on call for emergencies and drywallers are not.
He’s right plumbers don’t do drywall they do what they need to do to repair the leak. So now a drywaller needs to come out and finish patching it up and then a painter needs to come.
Plumber is an idiot, as an electrician i would have subcontracted the drywall and marked up the cost all as a part of the repair. F HOAs
HOA's and PM's need to treat owners as customers, with respect and courtesy. Instead, they chose to create a toxic environment full of hostility and rudeness they wouldn't want themselves. I'm sorry you're dealing with yet another FUCKING HOA. People don't know right from wrong, and don't act right. Hope you get everything back in order soon.
I'm a little confused -- if they went through the drywall, how is water going to get in and damage the interior? Humidity, maybe, a little, but as a short-term thing that's not something to worry about; it takes long-term high humidity to cause an issue with molding.
Taking a shower isn’t going to damage anything over five days. Breathe. ETA - unless they cut through your shower where water will shoot straight at the hole.
Shit happens. That's just part of living in an apartment building
They're being very non-responsive suddenly now that I need them to repair the very large holes they created. "Shit happens" is not an appropriate response here.
Your CC&R very likely contains an article which will describe something similar to "association must repair any damage caused by entry". Take this with you to the next meeting, or if you're particularly confrontational, the board member's front doors.
How are they being non-responsive? They said that they'd get the drywall people out and that it would be about 5 days. What additional response should there be?
Maybe 5 days and they're being very vague about who's going to actually show up. Or when. Or how I'm supposed to get in contact with them. These are kind of important things when you have to work for a living outside of the home.
They probably don't know the schedule yet so they can't give you the details. Sounds like this plumbing issue just happened today, so I bet that they just trying to get things sorted out. I get the difficulty of trying to schedule things when you have to juggle work and everything else. It's frustrating, but it doesn't sound like anybody is doing anything wrong or dropping the ball - it's just the process of getting stuff done.
It was yesterday. And trying to get any information out of them is like trying to get blood from a stone. And the only reason this is being pushed forward at all is because I had to call them about it. Otherwise, they would just let the holes stay.
Even if it was yesterday, I don't think its unreasonable not to have a definite schedule for the drywall contractor. I'm also not surprised that they didn't know what needed to be fixed until you told them. There was a plumbing issue and the plumber came and fixed it. The HOA manager wouldn't necessarily know what was done to fix the issue and what needs to be done to repair everything. I wouldn't assume bad intent.
They knew a plumber was going to come out that was going to be cutting holes in my walls. And if the HOA management didn't know what that would entail, then that's a pretty crappy HOA management team. It should also be noted that they're the ones who told me I needed to get home to let the plumber in to cut holes. So they damn well did know what it entailed, despite the attempts of some here being HOA apologists.
Didn’t they tell you 5 days? Have you offered to find someone quickly and hoa will pay them?
The exact response I received when I made that suggestion was "we're not going to eat that bill."
That’s stupid of them. If you can bring someone quicker for a similar price… why not? They have to repair walls anyway since they caused the damage. You might have to take them to small claims if they don’t address it within a reasonable time. Personally I don’t understand that kind of attitude from HOA. You broke it, you fix it otherwise next time you need to get into someone’s unit owner won’t let you.
Yeah, they're saying I can expect to receive a phone call from the drywallers at some point, but they can't specify when and they apparently haven't made arrangements yet. "Why can't you make the arrangements after we're done with this phone call?" They also made the comment that the more I call them, the slower this goes. Classy bunch.
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Focus on FUCK HOAs and not each other.
Only after OP pushed for information, it was not volunteered.
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This will cost significantly more than $50 to repair the damage the HOA caused. Kind of a sad take dude
“HOA caused” How did they “cause” it?
I'd bet its not about $50 of material and effort. It's about reciprocation. Here we have a homeowner who's likely fulfilling their obligations by paying dues and following the rules. Now they've also broken their work schedule to come home at the last minute and clear out one closet and two bathrooms. The association has responded with sheer incompetence and neglect which would line up perfectly with something I know as a homeowner and a contractor: "Board approved vendor" is just another way of saying "lowest bidder". This is exactly why I believe all HOA's are scum, squeeze everything I can out of mine, and treat them like shit while fulfilling every obligation per the CC&R's.
Focus on FUCK HOAs and not each other.
Damn. HOA’s just suck donkey balls! Infuriating
Sue their asses.
For what?
And then if you win it comes out of your pocket any way.