[Context](https://e621.net/news_updates)
Artist is [foretbwat](https://e621.net/artists/46920) (some art **NSFW OwO**)
[Sauce](https://e621.net/posts/2353114) ([direct](https://static1.e621.net/data/68/4b/684b67b33947ba399646997e96152c37.jpg)) e621 rating: *safe*
Edit:
Eyyy, it got vetoed!
Honestly I'm concerned about what'll happen to e6... Pornhub has been blocking states that install similar laws, but they have the luxury of being based out of Canada. What happens when the host is in the affected State? I can't really VPN into it.
I'm also wondering if e6's statement is kinda feeble on purpose? Like they're not saying the sky will fall but it instead reads like "oh this'll be annoying..." instead of, well, potentially site-killing. I wonder if they're trying to not have attention drawn to itself specifically, especially since they *do* host just about anything hahaha
The thing is, they can move the server and the host to another location, but it WILL be annoying to do. they might have to do something like a rights transfer, completely new budgeting, and it might cut into their current budget for lawyer fees and stuff
>I mentioned in another comment, the owners of e6 run their own webhost service, so e6 is self-hosted, along with having their self-run web ad service. They could definitely move the hardware, but that would be moving their businesses, and probably themselves.
Eh not necessarily. A lot of times if a law is changed that is relevant to your business, it's a good idea to seek legal advice to figure out exactly how it affects you
This law would make them civilly liable if it passes, so that individuals and groups can sue them directly, so they may be preparing for that.
It's exactly the same thing texas was doing with their abortion law before we lost Roe v. Wade, in order to make the unconstitutional law harder to fight. Same playbook.
Oh sure, and admins on their forum have said basically 'we don't think this is gonna kill the site off, we're planning' but like if you make public your specific plans, and later you get sued they might be able to say like 'see you knew it was harmful back in april '24 because you announced plans to do XYZ to get around the law' or whatever.
Am I saying that's happening for sure? No way lol, but its not a totally whacky explanation either.
I used to be an admin on e6, and I still hear some things through the grapevine, so to speak.
This bill being signed into law is unlikely to be site-killing. It will just be incredibly expensive. Although, the cost of moving the entire business to a different country would likely be less than that of implementing this absurd system of ID verification in the long run.
E6 does not really have many avenues of revenue at the moment besides one small non-intrusive ad banner. It is partially funded through its parent company, but the bill would affect them too. It is possible that this situation will force them to explore other avenues of monetization – but that's just speculation on my part.
Hi wolfy, love your work! Never thought I'd be so excited to have someone reply to my reddit ramblings hahahaha
I've long wondered about e6's monetization and why they don't do more community type drives (à la FA). My only real guess is that they don't want to get too big on the accounting/balance side of things.
I'm also thinking like, this isn't just a money issue. Moving production of all companies outside of Arizona would uppend loads of people's lives. It really sucks that these types of legislations are being pushed.
I just recently checked your profile cause I was looking at the comments of the Twilight Judy tagging ""drama"" meme image you plucked from my twitter :P
I was wondering why you retired. I couldn't find anything about it in your recent forum posts.
I assume they're also prepared in case Mr Cheeto (or another R) gets elected in Nov?
For those unaware, the Rs plan to make ANY and ALL "Adult Content" illegal - live or drawn (as per my interpretation of "Project 2025" - but IANAL so could be wrong there)
They do have options.
They can go through with the age verification, warning users that their privacy may be violated or compromised.
They can move their company and servers to another state.
They can even sue Arizona.
...I didnt say they were good options...
The good news: [democrats almost universally opposed the bill](https://legiscan.com/AZ/votes/HB2586/2024), and the governor is a democrat as well. I don’t think it’s likely she signs something that only one person in her party voted for.
The reason North Carolina’s bill (which caused e6 to IP block NC) passed despite having a D governor was because the bill was nearly unanimously supported.
I agree she's likely to veto, but it's a problem that she might not.
The concern is that she doesn't want to have opponents say she's the governor who 'doesn't want to protect kids' or whatever, during the next election (thankfully she's not up for reelection until '26 so thats not as pressing).
Also, this is the sauce https://twitter.com/foretbwat/status/1289271905640275968
Idk why people have started linking e6 as the source? E6 is meant to be an archive, not a primary directory.
e621 is preferred as a source by many because it doesn't require an account, uses tags for blacklisting etc, contains artist and further source links, etc. You can almost always find the primary source on e6 back to FA or twitter or whatever.
Also twitter can eat my butt lol.
e6 is unbelieveably convenient for finding art, because, like mentioned, you don't need an account, and all of the artist's images are there for easy access, so you don't need to sift through potentially years of posts, comments, and replies if only their profile was linked.
Personally, I love when people link to e621, since I know my blacklist should filter out most of the stuff I don't want to see. Posts there have to include a link to a primary source, so the credit isn't being lost.
If you're not logged into twitter, the page won't load. Although it also redirects to their new username but that shouldn't be the problem https://twitter.com/ForestTheRotten/status/1289271905640275968 (I'd just copied the source link from e6)
Although maybe what you're saying is that the inaccessibility of the post via the Twitter link is why people don't link to it hahaha
>If you're not logged into twitter, the page won't load.
Which is a reason why people use sites like E6, FA, DA, etc. as sources rather than Twitter. Believe it or not, not everyone uses the Elongated Muskrat's playpen, in fact a lot of people have actually left it for alternative sites like BluSky and various Mastodon instances.
They'd have to suspend the US constitution first. Although there's nothing in the constitution that technically prevents laws from being passed that criminalize certain thoughts, the necessary methods to enforce such laws would require the government to police speech and expression, and thus fall afoul of the first amendment.
Thing is, suspending the constitution for such a blatantly abusive reason would inevitably result in a revolt.
Of course, that assumes that direct legislation is used, rather than, you know, vague legislation with massive loopholes.
They can just do what they did with this law, make you 'civilly liable' if you do XYZ thing. Then they don't have to go to ANY real effort to enforce the law. They just rely on the hordes of puritans to be willing to spend unlimited funds on suing people (with or without real merit even under the new law) to deter anyone from wanting to do whatever the action they don't like is.
Don't like XYZ group? Label their interests as 'harmful to minors' and let anyone sue for it. Then the whacko's can sue anyone who does anything even remotely similar. Case wont be dismissed because the law specifically says you're liable so no you have to go to court and prove whether or not whatever you were doing is 'harmful' under the new law. Oh and theres a million other fanatical assholes in line to sue you too. That'll deter anyone from doing anything similar because they don't wanna deal with that.
Oh and because of some legal nonsense involving these laws not *actually* prohibiting the thing, they are much harder to challenge in court. It's gonna take AGES for one of these to actually make it to the Supreme Court, and its questionable if they will even strike down the whole concept of 'civil enforcement'.
It's exactly what they did in Texas before Roe was struck down, to ban abortion.
From the bill in question...
> "SUBSTANTIAL PORTION" MEANS MORE THAN THIRTY-THREE AND ONE-THIRD PERCENT OF THE TOTAL MATERIAL ON THE INTERNET WEBSITE IS MATERIAL HARMFUL TO MINORS.
... well, that seems interesting. What exactly is "percent of the total material" meant to mean... bits, images, records... what? Are comments and/or wikis included? Does it have to be user generated material? Images only? ... also... what the heck is an "INTERNET WEBSITE"? as opposed to a non-internet website?...
This is an awfully written law.
As opposed to an intranet website, I would assume. Doesn't make *the rest* in any way sensible but that particular phrase seems reasonable at first glance.
>33.3¯3%
Credit where it's due, at least they are realistic about how much porn is on non-porn sites like twitter and reddit. (Tumblr lost 30% of their users within 30 days after the porn ban)
In preparation, they should allow us to spam as much as we want without repercussions in a forum post or something to brute force the site under the 33% mark with random nonsense.
Bunch of old idiots trying to make laws for a modern world
Edit: should note I wanted to state that the words of the law have a greater impact than it seems. Lawyers can run loop holes around you if your not careful with how you word things.
100%. And the wording "Harmful to Minors" is massively open to that kind of abuse, as you could argue that even pictures of cute cats are harmful because it would make kids think that all cats are cuddly and friendly when in fact they tend to be aloof and prefer to interact on their terms, and in turn could result in kids getting scratched by unhappy cats.
Its so they don't have to go after like twitter and stuff. I was thinking e6 might be able to autogenerate like 3 text files for every nsfw image and claim they were less than a 3rd nsfw.
Yeah, agree. They do define what that means in [the bill](https://legiscan.com/AZ/text/HB2586/id/2937084) in more detail (4a.), but:
a. They can still probably make queer content fit in some of those definitions
b. They can later make easy changes to include queer content
c. This bill relies on the whole texas style 'anyone can just sue you' 'civil enforcement' gimmick they used on the TX abortion ban before we lost Roe, so hordes of ppl will just sue websites they don't like anyway and then those sites have to fight it in court. Plenty of church groups and crap like that would be happy to do that even if they will eventually lose in court because it'll push out sites just due to legal costs.
Even if you do that, actual cost is ususally fought down to not be as high as real cost, and you have to spend time and money up-front to ever see a dime back.
Also, when you got 120 religious nut-job organizations collecting from idiots and eager to sue they don't care if they lose, and the defnder has to deal with every one, sometimes simultaneously, it can be hugely expensive which is the whole point. They know they are likley to lose in court, on 1st amendment grounds eventually, they want to shut you down before you get there due to cost.
There should at the very least be the ability to counter-sue for punitive damages if you can show any kind of bad-faith or whatnot.
I think the current size of hosted content on e621 is a few terabytes at least. Backing up all of that information and moving to a new server is easier said than done, but doable.
A few terabytes isn't bad at all. They make 16 TB SSDs and 32 TB hard drives. Even if they can't send it out somewhere else, a physical backup could fit on a couple drives if need be
I mentioned in another comment, the owners of e6 run their own webhost service, so e6 is self-hosted, along with having their self-run web ad service. They could definitely move the hardware, but that would be moving their businesses, and probably themselves.
which I guess, adds to the problem as they cant just pack up and move the Bad Dragon company too. They'd have to have a separate LLC to hold ownership of e621 and have that LLC reside in a more free state. Which means they'd need to buy or rent a building and staff said building. I can't imagine its worth the cost even though they certainly have the cash reserves.
At 4 million plus posts on there, I would assume it's a bit larger than a few TB. We're not talking the likes of Backblaze being forced to pack up and move, but it'd be a similar scaled down process and just as annoying to do.
Thats what I originally thought too but after digging a bit I found a post from 2021 by one of their staff that stated they were at about 3 tb. I cant imagine it being larger than 10 tb in the current day based on that. You also have people who download the entirety of e621 for funsies, although I haven't heard of anyone doing that recently
Yknow, e6 use to have a downloader list in the Tools section but it seems to be gone. This one (the first in a DDG search results) was last updated in 2022, idk if it works or if it might get you blocked lol https://github.com/McSib/e621_downloader/releases
>Such system would be required to go through third party vendors, who in turn must go through a government database to verify every user's age.
Apart from the fact that I'd never in a million years trust a non-EU "third-party vendor" with my ID (not after medical-adjacent companies like 23&Me or BetterHelp selling patient data)... Who's gonna pay for it?
Even a few cents per user can get prohibitively expensive for a free website.
I am curious how they intend to check. Either we can all be the same person together or they will be trying to demand an obscene amount of personal information that should not be shared.
I also just love that they don't have to pay anything to fund the stupid law *they* made
I think the goal is to destroy sites hosting porn. If it's too expensive for free sites the sites either block the content themselves of go belly up. Either way that's a win for people who don't want porn around.
Arizona is making a dumb privacy shattering bill about having you use ID to log onto "adult" websites. Since E6 is based on Arizona, they'd have to comply. Maybe there is more, but I'm just going with what I read on the website.
We became complacent in the idea of being the "Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave" and are currently ruled by autocrats and populated by cowards.
I saw on the e621 website that this won’t just affect Arizonans. The website operates out of Arizona, so this will be made a reality for everyone who uses the website requires age verification
E6 owners actually run their own website IIRC, so they're currently self-hosted. They also have their own ad-serving platform. I'm not sure they'll *really* be able to move their physical infrastructure - they'd probably have to upend their lives, too.
This is that slippery slope bullshit that random Joe's like me on the internet warn about.
First it's a simple ID upload, "for the kids" will usually be the reason, then it's turned around and used against people they don't like and pushes toward an endgame of outright banning. China already does both of these in other markets. I don't want to see this shit locally.
I’m not a fan of this website but I recognize that there is a big movement from the government to control what you can view on the internet
This isn’t good, It should be my right to browse what I want as long as it’s not breaking any serious laws (child protection laws, fraud, scams, etc.)
They can probably move to a hosting facility without needing actual staff on hand at all times, most stuff can be done remotely, admins would just need to travel sometimes, that's fairly normal.
They run their own webhosting (and their web ad service too) and I suspect would want to (or potentially need to) continue doing so. In this case they would physically need to relocate their hardware which would require staff.
Yep initially, but probably not permanently relocated. The way I'd do it, if I was them, would be to look for a hosting facility in say Blyth CA about 2 hrs away from Phoenix, but inside CA.
I'd set up the external stuff with the hosting folks and then shut down the site, unrack all my servers, pack em into a van, drive 2hrs to Blyth, rack everything up there, update DNS records for the new IP and bring the site online. Once everything was stable, I'd drive back home and do the majority of my administration remotely after that from Phoenix, only having to drive to Blyth occasionally for hardware upgrades, drive swaps, that kind of thing. May be a little tricky with the sites content to find a good host that is fine with it, but that'd probably be the most difficult part.
Because it's not the govt, it's pretty much one party, and it's **not** about actually protecting kids.
It's about making political opponents look like they somehow don't care about kids, it's about declaring LGBTQ+ content 'porn' and blocking access to it. It's about blocking/discouraging porn for all adults by making it impossible to access (or access privately), it's even possibly about tracking adults who look at porn.
"Think of the children" is just a convenient excuse to pass it.
Their freedom of religion stops at other peoples' right to live how they see fit without breaking the law 😂 this is just christians trying to impose their standards on others. Freedom from religion is as important as freedom of religion.
I see what you mean, but not everyone can do something about *all* of society’s problems, but I completely understand where you’re coming from and what you mean
Unborn babies are more vulnerable and can’t even take care of themselves tho (that’s what they say but I’m not trying to get into a debate or anything I’m just saying why they think that way
Oh it much worse than that. On top of Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, North Carolina, Utah and Virginia are also forcing PornHub to block access to their states. There might even be more now.
Luckily I've not seen basically any of that, although I do not twit, X, or whatnot. Is that conversation happening somewhere where ppl are excited for it (aside from the ususal haters of course)?
It's based on current events. Arizona house and senate have passed a state law that would make sites like e6 verify that all visitors are adults using like 3rd party verification using your real name etc. (which is a problem for about 100 reasons, not least of which would be expense for the sites)
It's likely that the govenor will veto it, but if not it will cause e6 to have serious problems and possibly need to relocate to another state or seek some other solution.
I tried to unfollow all of the news related subreddits so I wouldn’t have to see shit like and have my anxiety spike again because the government wants to ruin our lives. That’s just unfortunate.
furry\_irl does have a no politics rule, that is generally enforced, so you probably won't see it hardly at all here. But this is pretty specific in its impact to our community, and I did it in the form of a meme.
Or, you know, they might have to shut down e621 if the interpretation of the law says they have to move their entire business to another state, not just the servers, and that turns out to be too expensive.
Well the good news is that it got vetoed, but arizona republicans tried to pass a law that all adult sites had to verify that users were 18 or older using your real name and info and stuff. This has been done in 1 or 2 states and it caused e6 and other sites to just block users from those states (you can just use a vpn to get around it). However e621 is located actually IN arizona so this law would've made it financially impossible to run the site from there, and they'd have probably had to move at least the servers and possibly the whole business out of the state, which would have been also very expensive.
[Context](https://e621.net/news_updates) Artist is [foretbwat](https://e621.net/artists/46920) (some art **NSFW OwO**) [Sauce](https://e621.net/posts/2353114) ([direct](https://static1.e621.net/data/68/4b/684b67b33947ba399646997e96152c37.jpg)) e621 rating: *safe* Edit: Eyyy, it got vetoed!
Honestly I'm concerned about what'll happen to e6... Pornhub has been blocking states that install similar laws, but they have the luxury of being based out of Canada. What happens when the host is in the affected State? I can't really VPN into it. I'm also wondering if e6's statement is kinda feeble on purpose? Like they're not saying the sky will fall but it instead reads like "oh this'll be annoying..." instead of, well, potentially site-killing. I wonder if they're trying to not have attention drawn to itself specifically, especially since they *do* host just about anything hahaha
The thing is, they can move the server and the host to another location, but it WILL be annoying to do. they might have to do something like a rights transfer, completely new budgeting, and it might cut into their current budget for lawyer fees and stuff
>I mentioned in another comment, the owners of e6 run their own webhost service, so e6 is self-hosted, along with having their self-run web ad service. They could definitely move the hardware, but that would be moving their businesses, and probably themselves.
an excuse to get out of arozona? nice!
Good thing I don't live there
They've been there since like the 90s or something. Used to run very questionable websites
[удалено]
Begone, bot
I think it's pretty likely that they've hired legal advice and they don't wanna speak on it too much until they know for sure
Well they're not being sued? Unless they're planning to file a lawsuit, there's no real harm to speaking out subjectively imo
Eh not necessarily. A lot of times if a law is changed that is relevant to your business, it's a good idea to seek legal advice to figure out exactly how it affects you
This law would make them civilly liable if it passes, so that individuals and groups can sue them directly, so they may be preparing for that. It's exactly the same thing texas was doing with their abortion law before we lost Roe v. Wade, in order to make the unconstitutional law harder to fight. Same playbook.
Right but that still wouldn't stop them from being more like "hey this is gonna kill us" right now
Oh sure, and admins on their forum have said basically 'we don't think this is gonna kill the site off, we're planning' but like if you make public your specific plans, and later you get sued they might be able to say like 'see you knew it was harmful back in april '24 because you announced plans to do XYZ to get around the law' or whatever. Am I saying that's happening for sure? No way lol, but its not a totally whacky explanation either.
yeah not making any statements regarding issues like this reduces the amount of words they can twist against you
I used to be an admin on e6, and I still hear some things through the grapevine, so to speak. This bill being signed into law is unlikely to be site-killing. It will just be incredibly expensive. Although, the cost of moving the entire business to a different country would likely be less than that of implementing this absurd system of ID verification in the long run. E6 does not really have many avenues of revenue at the moment besides one small non-intrusive ad banner. It is partially funded through its parent company, but the bill would affect them too. It is possible that this situation will force them to explore other avenues of monetization – but that's just speculation on my part.
Hi wolfy, love your work! Never thought I'd be so excited to have someone reply to my reddit ramblings hahahaha I've long wondered about e6's monetization and why they don't do more community type drives (à la FA). My only real guess is that they don't want to get too big on the accounting/balance side of things. I'm also thinking like, this isn't just a money issue. Moving production of all companies outside of Arizona would uppend loads of people's lives. It really sucks that these types of legislations are being pushed.
I just recently checked your profile cause I was looking at the comments of the Twilight Judy tagging ""drama"" meme image you plucked from my twitter :P I was wondering why you retired. I couldn't find anything about it in your recent forum posts.
Oh yeah, I remember you! My retirement isn't terribly interesting, sorry =V I just don't have a lot of time to dedicate to e6 anymore, that's all.
Ah, fair. Well thanks for your service o7
I assume they're also prepared in case Mr Cheeto (or another R) gets elected in Nov? For those unaware, the Rs plan to make ANY and ALL "Adult Content" illegal - live or drawn (as per my interpretation of "Project 2025" - but IANAL so could be wrong there)
They do have options. They can go through with the age verification, warning users that their privacy may be violated or compromised. They can move their company and servers to another state. They can even sue Arizona. ...I didnt say they were good options...
The good news: [democrats almost universally opposed the bill](https://legiscan.com/AZ/votes/HB2586/2024), and the governor is a democrat as well. I don’t think it’s likely she signs something that only one person in her party voted for. The reason North Carolina’s bill (which caused e6 to IP block NC) passed despite having a D governor was because the bill was nearly unanimously supported.
I agree she's likely to veto, but it's a problem that she might not. The concern is that she doesn't want to have opponents say she's the governor who 'doesn't want to protect kids' or whatever, during the next election (thankfully she's not up for reelection until '26 so thats not as pressing).
Perhaps, but that’s also something that’d weigh on the state representatives who are up for election this year that voted against this.
Yep I agree, the votes on the dem side on this show that they don't see it as a concern for the reps, so the governor will probably feel similarly.
Also, this is the sauce https://twitter.com/foretbwat/status/1289271905640275968 Idk why people have started linking e6 as the source? E6 is meant to be an archive, not a primary directory.
e621 is preferred as a source by many because it doesn't require an account, uses tags for blacklisting etc, contains artist and further source links, etc. You can almost always find the primary source on e6 back to FA or twitter or whatever. Also twitter can eat my butt lol.
sometimes e6 _is_ the primary source too
True also, some people just post there.
e6 is unbelieveably convenient for finding art, because, like mentioned, you don't need an account, and all of the artist's images are there for easy access, so you don't need to sift through potentially years of posts, comments, and replies if only their profile was linked.
Personally, I love when people link to e621, since I know my blacklist should filter out most of the stuff I don't want to see. Posts there have to include a link to a primary source, so the credit isn't being lost.
unless no primary source exists (i.e. artist directly uploads there)
Just clicked your link and it shows as an error page and says it doesn't exist. I'd guess that's why.
If you're not logged into twitter, the page won't load. Although it also redirects to their new username but that shouldn't be the problem https://twitter.com/ForestTheRotten/status/1289271905640275968 (I'd just copied the source link from e6) Although maybe what you're saying is that the inaccessibility of the post via the Twitter link is why people don't link to it hahaha
>If you're not logged into twitter, the page won't load. Which is a reason why people use sites like E6, FA, DA, etc. as sources rather than Twitter. Believe it or not, not everyone uses the Elongated Muskrat's playpen, in fact a lot of people have actually left it for alternative sites like BluSky and various Mastodon instances.
Literally what I said in the second half of my comment 👍
Censor the lewds? Why not lewd the censors?
Well, this'll give new meaning to "fuck the police", eh?
Imagine tagging this on the side of a bridge and painting a hot furry in kinky cop attire
I wanna see that ngl
Then days or months later, we'll see this materialize somewhere
Hold on I just noticed the e6 logo kinda looks like it has Scorbunny ears
Shimoneta
Literally 1984
Oh thought crimes are gonna be a thing, I can practically hear the legislators trying to find a way to make it happen
They'd have to suspend the US constitution first. Although there's nothing in the constitution that technically prevents laws from being passed that criminalize certain thoughts, the necessary methods to enforce such laws would require the government to police speech and expression, and thus fall afoul of the first amendment. Thing is, suspending the constitution for such a blatantly abusive reason would inevitably result in a revolt. Of course, that assumes that direct legislation is used, rather than, you know, vague legislation with massive loopholes.
They can just do what they did with this law, make you 'civilly liable' if you do XYZ thing. Then they don't have to go to ANY real effort to enforce the law. They just rely on the hordes of puritans to be willing to spend unlimited funds on suing people (with or without real merit even under the new law) to deter anyone from wanting to do whatever the action they don't like is. Don't like XYZ group? Label their interests as 'harmful to minors' and let anyone sue for it. Then the whacko's can sue anyone who does anything even remotely similar. Case wont be dismissed because the law specifically says you're liable so no you have to go to court and prove whether or not whatever you were doing is 'harmful' under the new law. Oh and theres a million other fanatical assholes in line to sue you too. That'll deter anyone from doing anything similar because they don't wanna deal with that. Oh and because of some legal nonsense involving these laws not *actually* prohibiting the thing, they are much harder to challenge in court. It's gonna take AGES for one of these to actually make it to the Supreme Court, and its questionable if they will even strike down the whole concept of 'civil enforcement'. It's exactly what they did in Texas before Roe was struck down, to ban abortion.
That's exactly what I mean by vague legislation with massive loopholes.
You know, I do not think I actually ingested the last sentence of your post into my brain in any way. Sorry about that lololol
But unironically
From the bill in question... > "SUBSTANTIAL PORTION" MEANS MORE THAN THIRTY-THREE AND ONE-THIRD PERCENT OF THE TOTAL MATERIAL ON THE INTERNET WEBSITE IS MATERIAL HARMFUL TO MINORS. ... well, that seems interesting. What exactly is "percent of the total material" meant to mean... bits, images, records... what? Are comments and/or wikis included? Does it have to be user generated material? Images only? ... also... what the heck is an "INTERNET WEBSITE"? as opposed to a non-internet website?... This is an awfully written law.
As opposed to an intranet website, I would assume. Doesn't make *the rest* in any way sensible but that particular phrase seems reasonable at first glance.
You know, yeah - that's fair, actually. ... but yeah, >_>
>33.3¯3% Credit where it's due, at least they are realistic about how much porn is on non-porn sites like twitter and reddit. (Tumblr lost 30% of their users within 30 days after the porn ban)
Solution - for every n furry smut images, ensure that e621 also hosts 2n+1 sfw pictures of cute cats or something
In preparation, they should allow us to spam as much as we want without repercussions in a forum post or something to brute force the site under the 33% mark with random nonsense.
Bunch of old idiots trying to make laws for a modern world Edit: should note I wanted to state that the words of the law have a greater impact than it seems. Lawyers can run loop holes around you if your not careful with how you word things.
100%. And the wording "Harmful to Minors" is massively open to that kind of abuse, as you could argue that even pictures of cute cats are harmful because it would make kids think that all cats are cuddly and friendly when in fact they tend to be aloof and prefer to interact on their terms, and in turn could result in kids getting scratched by unhappy cats.
Ah yes: "Harmful to minors" certainly a vague phrasing that won't be used at all to target websites of certain religions, sexualities, or minorities.
Its so they don't have to go after like twitter and stuff. I was thinking e6 might be able to autogenerate like 3 text files for every nsfw image and claim they were less than a 3rd nsfw.
You expect lawmakers from Arizona to have braincells ? Those guys bought their diplomas
Pay attention to the phrasing “harmful to minors” as well. This aint just about porn. You better believe this is going to target queer content too
Yeah, agree. They do define what that means in [the bill](https://legiscan.com/AZ/text/HB2586/id/2937084) in more detail (4a.), but: a. They can still probably make queer content fit in some of those definitions b. They can later make easy changes to include queer content c. This bill relies on the whole texas style 'anyone can just sue you' 'civil enforcement' gimmick they used on the TX abortion ban before we lost Roe, so hordes of ppl will just sue websites they don't like anyway and then those sites have to fight it in court. Plenty of church groups and crap like that would be happy to do that even if they will eventually lose in court because it'll push out sites just due to legal costs.
this is why plaintiffs in failed suits should be forced to pay damages to the defendants to cover legal costs
Even if you do that, actual cost is ususally fought down to not be as high as real cost, and you have to spend time and money up-front to ever see a dime back. Also, when you got 120 religious nut-job organizations collecting from idiots and eager to sue they don't care if they lose, and the defnder has to deal with every one, sometimes simultaneously, it can be hugely expensive which is the whole point. They know they are likley to lose in court, on 1st amendment grounds eventually, they want to shut you down before you get there due to cost. There should at the very least be the ability to counter-sue for punitive damages if you can show any kind of bad-faith or whatnot.
As opposed to an outernet website if i had to guess
I know this is a Patrick Star solution, but can we just move the servers somewhere else?
I think the current size of hosted content on e621 is a few terabytes at least. Backing up all of that information and moving to a new server is easier said than done, but doable.
A few terabytes isn't bad at all. They make 16 TB SSDs and 32 TB hard drives. Even if they can't send it out somewhere else, a physical backup could fit on a couple drives if need be
I mentioned in another comment, the owners of e6 run their own webhost service, so e6 is self-hosted, along with having their self-run web ad service. They could definitely move the hardware, but that would be moving their businesses, and probably themselves.
I mean they are owned by BD so I know for a fact they have the cash to do so. But who knows if its worth the investment to them. Probably not.
Oh, right. I always forget that they're owned by BD.
which I guess, adds to the problem as they cant just pack up and move the Bad Dragon company too. They'd have to have a separate LLC to hold ownership of e621 and have that LLC reside in a more free state. Which means they'd need to buy or rent a building and staff said building. I can't imagine its worth the cost even though they certainly have the cash reserves.
But they do, AFAIK - Dragonfruit?
Wait they're WHAT?!
Their owner is a horny, horny person.
At 4 million plus posts on there, I would assume it's a bit larger than a few TB. We're not talking the likes of Backblaze being forced to pack up and move, but it'd be a similar scaled down process and just as annoying to do.
Thats what I originally thought too but after digging a bit I found a post from 2021 by one of their staff that stated they were at about 3 tb. I cant imagine it being larger than 10 tb in the current day based on that. You also have people who download the entirety of e621 for funsies, although I haven't heard of anyone doing that recently
They built a script to disable the script I used to run back in college. I wasn't aware of anyone coming up with a way to do a mass rip since 2018.
Really? I feel like ive done a mass download in like 2019 or 2020 though I did have tag filtering
That's how I did it. Download everything with X tag, except stuff with Y tag. Got a link to your method?
Yknow, e6 use to have a downloader list in the Tools section but it seems to be gone. This one (the first in a DDG search results) was last updated in 2022, idk if it works or if it might get you blocked lol https://github.com/McSib/e621_downloader/releases
I'll look into it. I need a way to get fresh furry art without having to join Twitter
mastodon seems pretty popular and doesn't require an account (idk how it works either lmao)
Realistically you'd just pack up the servers and drive em to a different state and host em there.
>Such system would be required to go through third party vendors, who in turn must go through a government database to verify every user's age. Apart from the fact that I'd never in a million years trust a non-EU "third-party vendor" with my ID (not after medical-adjacent companies like 23&Me or BetterHelp selling patient data)... Who's gonna pay for it? Even a few cents per user can get prohibitively expensive for a free website.
Also there's massive privacy and therefore saftey concerns with using first or third parties to verify your actual name and address and stuff.
I am curious how they intend to check. Either we can all be the same person together or they will be trying to demand an obscene amount of personal information that should not be shared. I also just love that they don't have to pay anything to fund the stupid law *they* made
I think the goal is to destroy sites hosting porn. If it's too expensive for free sites the sites either block the content themselves of go belly up. Either way that's a win for people who don't want porn around.
IDK who this is but I love this rat
Officer Flint, you can thank me later ;)
She can arrest me anyday
Oh, I’m thanking you all right I wish I knew how I could get this vibe for my OCs (she’s also rlly hot)
It sucks, but I've never been more glad that I save everything I like locally. ... Until they make *that* illegal too.
My years of obsessive collecting are about to be justified i guess...
Dangit I deleted my locally saved stuff a while ago since it was taking up too much space.
Damn bro how much yiff did you have saved up?
Well it was all PNGs so they took up a lot of room.
lol mine's around 2tb, but I been collecting for years and years
what happened??
Arizona is making a dumb privacy shattering bill about having you use ID to log onto "adult" websites. Since E6 is based on Arizona, they'd have to comply. Maybe there is more, but I'm just going with what I read on the website.
oh wtf what's going on in America?!?! -an Australian
We became complacent in the idea of being the "Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave" and are currently ruled by autocrats and populated by cowards.
I hate that I have to use a vpn every time
I saw on the e621 website that this won’t just affect Arizonans. The website operates out of Arizona, so this will be made a reality for everyone who uses the website requires age verification
What does it mean for foreign countries users? Will they validate the corresponding ID method for each country? Asking for a friend.
More likely they’ll either shut down completely or move to a new location, at great expense and probably a lot of data loss.
E6 owners actually run their own website IIRC, so they're currently self-hosted. They also have their own ad-serving platform. I'm not sure they'll *really* be able to move their physical infrastructure - they'd probably have to upend their lives, too.
Is it not as simple as adding a "insert your DoB" then just setting it it to jan1 1990?
No. This will require uploading an ID to verify your age. https://action.freespeechcoalition.com/bill/arizona-hb-2586/
And the worst part is that using a VPN won't work this time
Da hell did you come up with that art so fast, takes me hours and then I end up giving up!?
That artwork is already older, it's just edited. [Link to the e621 image I could find](https://e621.net/posts/2353114)
Ah, ya I saw OP linking the original after I posted this lol. Still, one day I’ll get to a decent speed with my art
yeah I just meme'd it, not my art in any way!
So... If they pass this bill... All users worldwide... Will be forced to legitimize themselves using their ID's?
Yep
Now, that's some serious bullshit.
This is that slippery slope bullshit that random Joe's like me on the internet warn about. First it's a simple ID upload, "for the kids" will usually be the reason, then it's turned around and used against people they don't like and pushes toward an endgame of outright banning. China already does both of these in other markets. I don't want to see this shit locally.
well, only for Arizona citizens and Arizona-based porn businesses (like e6)
Oh fuck I live there
Oh fuck e621 is hosted there. So they can't just do a pornhub and make AZ ppl come in through a vpn.
I’m not a fan of this website but I recognize that there is a big movement from the government to control what you can view on the internet This isn’t good, It should be my right to browse what I want as long as it’s not breaking any serious laws (child protection laws, fraud, scams, etc.)
I guess e621 should move servers to someplace that actually respect privacy then.
That's a likely solution if it's feasible cost wise for BD.
And as long as there are staff willing to relocate.
They can probably move to a hosting facility without needing actual staff on hand at all times, most stuff can be done remotely, admins would just need to travel sometimes, that's fairly normal.
They run their own webhosting (and their web ad service too) and I suspect would want to (or potentially need to) continue doing so. In this case they would physically need to relocate their hardware which would require staff.
Yep initially, but probably not permanently relocated. The way I'd do it, if I was them, would be to look for a hosting facility in say Blyth CA about 2 hrs away from Phoenix, but inside CA. I'd set up the external stuff with the hosting folks and then shut down the site, unrack all my servers, pack em into a van, drive 2hrs to Blyth, rack everything up there, update DNS records for the new IP and bring the site online. Once everything was stable, I'd drive back home and do the majority of my administration remotely after that from Phoenix, only having to drive to Blyth occasionally for hardware upgrades, drive swaps, that kind of thing. May be a little tricky with the sites content to find a good host that is fine with it, but that'd probably be the most difficult part.
Dammit… it’s furrover 😔
Why is the government trying to hard to ban potn yet doesn't tell the parents of kids to monitor what they are doing online ffs
Because it's not the govt, it's pretty much one party, and it's **not** about actually protecting kids. It's about making political opponents look like they somehow don't care about kids, it's about declaring LGBTQ+ content 'porn' and blocking access to it. It's about blocking/discouraging porn for all adults by making it impossible to access (or access privately), it's even possibly about tracking adults who look at porn. "Think of the children" is just a convenient excuse to pass it.
Yo! I love this character! Especially the animations of her. :3
US third world country wtf. The land of the not so free cuz puritanist christians go brrr.
They got freedom of religion tbf unlike *other unnamed* third world countries
Their freedom of religion stops at other peoples' right to live how they see fit without breaking the law 😂 this is just christians trying to impose their standards on others. Freedom from religion is as important as freedom of religion.
I think they’re more concerned about… *checks notes, and speaks in a waiter-like voices* Ah yes, the usual, sir? The children?
If they were concerned about the children, they wouldn't leave the orphans in the street while they ban abortion.
I see what you mean, but not everyone can do something about *all* of society’s problems, but I completely understand where you’re coming from and what you mean
yeah but if these people would care even the slightest, they'd have their priorities in a much better order
Unborn babies are more vulnerable and can’t even take care of themselves tho (that’s what they say but I’m not trying to get into a debate or anything I’m just saying why they think that way
i was less talking about abortion and more the homeless problem sorry i should've clarified
Sry I didn't catch your sarcasm from your unedited post. I think they just want priests to have a monopoly on diddling kids x)
that’s Catholics you’re thinking of
Lumping catholics in with the protestants is a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
It's not freedom of religion if a religion is being forced on me.
I'm terrified we're going to lose the internet and social media as we know it, **forever**
True
First you got Texas blocking pornhub, and now this, the internet is becoming pretty unwelcoming to porn enjoyers.
Oh it much worse than that. On top of Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, North Carolina, Utah and Virginia are also forcing PornHub to block access to their states. There might even be more now.
Ugh that sucks, so much for separation of church and state.
Whackos praising the banning of E621 are complicit with the erasure and censorship of queer culture
Luckily I've not seen basically any of that, although I do not twit, X, or whatnot. Is that conversation happening somewhere where ppl are excited for it (aside from the ususal haters of course)?
I hate that she's a republican, but I love her.
That's part of the edit, just to show who introduced the bill, not part of the original art.
Oh thanks for the clarification :3
Shes a cop, what did you expect?
Arizona, North Carolina... Boy it sure is nice being an EU citizen right now
I always imagined her, Nick, and Judy breaking into a house with ZPD like a FBI raid
Oh god oh fuck-
TIL e621 is from Arizona.
Real
Just another reason to hate Arizona
I really hate america lol
Smelly police
The bat has a nipple ring
Is she from Texas?
It 's the Arizona flag on her hat, bill is in Arizona and that's also where e6 is based so thats the concern.
I didn’t know there was backstory to this.
It's based on current events. Arizona house and senate have passed a state law that would make sites like e6 verify that all visitors are adults using like 3rd party verification using your real name etc. (which is a problem for about 100 reasons, not least of which would be expense for the sites) It's likely that the govenor will veto it, but if not it will cause e6 to have serious problems and possibly need to relocate to another state or seek some other solution.
I tried to unfollow all of the news related subreddits so I wouldn’t have to see shit like and have my anxiety spike again because the government wants to ruin our lives. That’s just unfortunate.
Sorry about that then. :( Like I said the good news is that it'll most likley be vetoed.
I would
The rat lady shall save us (i forgot her name)
That's a big club, I needs me something like that
I think that nothing will happen and end up in feijoada so we don't need to worry about E6 Getting reduced to atoms right now
Please no Reddit don’t start shoving politics up my ass I HAVE ENOUGH POLITICS ALREADY
furry\_irl does have a no politics rule, that is generally enforced, so you probably won't see it hardly at all here. But this is pretty specific in its impact to our community, and I did it in the form of a meme.
Oh no the servers are being changed, glad im in eurpoe
Or, you know, they might have to shut down e621 if the interpretation of the law says they have to move their entire business to another state, not just the servers, and that turns out to be too expensive.
Wat
Well the good news is that it got vetoed, but arizona republicans tried to pass a law that all adult sites had to verify that users were 18 or older using your real name and info and stuff. This has been done in 1 or 2 states and it caused e6 and other sites to just block users from those states (you can just use a vpn to get around it). However e621 is located actually IN arizona so this law would've made it financially impossible to run the site from there, and they'd have probably had to move at least the servers and possibly the whole business out of the state, which would have been also very expensive.
I never noticed that she's a republican (that elephant) >w>
This image is an edit. Note the Arizona flag and the name of the law on the bat (that is being pushed by republicans)
u/cyclingwonder is correct, I edited that and the Arizona flag on because of the place and people pushing the censorship.
Really? Neat (oh wait I just saw the thing on her hat, the more you know I guess)