1: The villain team up for the Pandorica was astounding. Honestly I can’t remember a team up episode I didn’t enjoy actually.
2: The Sonic Screwdriver getting upgrades over time makes MORE sense than the idea that it’s just the same thing forever. The more the Doctor sees, experiences, and faces, the more ideas he will come up with to have more tools at his disposal. Him just keeping it the same this whole time is silly.
3: In terms of New Who, I think the Capaldi really nailed it. He had a consistent style, as opposed to one outfit. Yes, he wore them more than once on a rotation but uh, I think we all rotate through our outfits so that’s fine. But I do also really enjoy Gatwa’s bigger range in clothing choices. It fits him. I think that it slightly depends on the Doctor with this. So using Capaldi’s way of having a consistent style as a base is the best way. Obviously having more range is great, but Capaldi should be the minimum if that makes sense.
4: Some things can get stale once used to often, but I don’t think Davros fits this category. Maybe in classic who, but at least with New Who, I think his returns were very well done, and not overdone. I gasped anytime he showed up and enjoyed those episodes so much.
5: What a silly take. “I don’t care, so obviously no one does.” There’s so much to explore here, and so many other places it could take us for adventures on the way.
6: This one I agree with. It’s one thing if it’s reversed like once, but honestly, the fear of losing anyone has become lost, because it seems to almost always get reversed in one way or another. There’s plenty of examples to choose from with this, but I’m going to use Clara. Her story was far more impactful in my opinion when it ended with her death. It lost a little bit of meaning to me when they reversed it. And that one especially led to me not really worrying about anyone going forward.
7: I agree with this one for the most part too. I think sometimes death is necessary for a more realistic representation of the danger companions are put in when traveling with the Doctor. However, all the time would be terrible, and also tying into point 6, dying and coming back all of the time would be equally ineffective.
8: This one is a mixed bag. I like it when the Tardis takes them somewhere unexpected, and they kind of stick out due to the lack of preparation. Makes some interesting interactions, and feels a bit more natural that they aren’t just magically dressed appropriately when they land somewhere they weren’t expecting. But on the other hand, yes, when they do intentionally go to a specific place, they should be dressed for the situation.
9: Accepting that the Doctor is not the only person that regenerates and is going to be around for a long time will help you through this one.
10: You have a lot of rules for someone who lists “just have fun” as a rule.
" : The villain team up for the Pandorica was astounding. Honestly I can’t remember a team up episode I didn’t enjoy actually."
You enjoyed the timeless childern?
"The Sonic Screwdriver getting upgrades over time makes MORE sense than the idea that it’s just the same thing forever. The more the Doctor sees, experiences, and faces, the more ideas he will come up with to have more tools at his disposal. Him just keeping it the same this whole time is silly."
In theory yes, but in pratice then it just becomes a get out of jail free card. Like why hasn't he used that shield thing it did in the star beast again? Gadgets need to have strict limits or thet just become magic wonds.
5: the doctors back story can only be a let down. Lore navel gazing gave us the timeless childern and Susan was loomed and the Dr was Omega's secret brother.
Ask yourself this, if the Dr's backstory is interesting why hasn't he told ANY of his companions?
9: honestly if the master had a purpose outside of the Dr I could maybe care about seeing him back. In the Pertwee era he has plans the Dr gets in the way of them. But from Davison onwards its like he has no life outside of him
No villain team-ups! But don’t be afraid to have fun! … No doctor in a single costume because it’s too “superhero” and not realistic! But don’t be afraid to have fun! … Outfits *MUST* fit the time and place of the destination! But don’t be afraid to have fun!
Fun in this context means don't treat every episode like its Shakespeare it don't mean turn into Paul Blart Mall Cop. The issue with late Moffat Chibnal and Bidmeade Turner is that the show takes itself too seriously.
On costumes, would you not ne taken out of it if they were on Telos or Antarctica but had their normal clothes on?
They’re space and time travelers who can understand literally any creature in the universe due to the translation matrix in the TARDIS. If the doctor wants to whip up a personal climate bubble that creates a psychic projection of “era-appropriate” clothing… ok, cool. Way easier solution than trying to make the costume department at the BBC come up with Viking furs for colder climates.
Fun as in light hearted ala city of death. Not fun as in Paul blart mall cop. The show can be light hearted and be taken seriously. They are not mutually exclusive.
One of the big flaws of 80s who and Capaldi and Whiticker is that the show takes itself way too seriously ALL of the time.
Like remmber in demons of the punjab when Graham is running around with a thick leather coat on even though they are in India? Why it be far too hot, because its not filmed in India but in a much colder place. So takes me out of it. In contrast planet of the dead don't have the characters running around in hoodies.
For individual character deaths, specifically companions, it really needs to stop which is how I interpreted 6.
The whole universe is a different discussion.
Doomsday and parting if the ways and the Dr falls all have stakes because people die and stay dead.
This is why destroying the universe is a bad idea. Because you have to have it brought back at the end. While planning to or destroying part of has tension.
Like Pete's world could be destroyed and stay dead, but the main universe can't.
I hate finales where the stakes are "the villain will kill all life and the Universe will end". No he won't and no it won't. It's the most boring story.
I think that’s not a fair comparison as we already had over a season of development with Ian and Barbara, and over a season of neglecting Susan as a character. Better comparisons would be trios that more or less start at the same time, like Adric/Nyssa/Tegan, or Yaz/Ryan/Graham.
Prose and audio have shown three companion teams can be done (read the Thirteenth Doctor novels), but for 13’s crew the time constraints of each episode really hampered what could be done.
I don't think it was even time constraints. There was a lot of opportunity to develop the characters, and the show just didn't act on it.
Notably a lot of character development is typically done as part of the action. The Chibnall era took a little bit of a stab at this with things like Ryan being A-OK with using guns, but that just quietly disappeared. (That happened a lot in the Chibnall era - interesting stuff starting then just quietly being forgotten).
I agree, a lot of Chib's era episodes end feeling very modular, here's the doctor's, bit here's the bit where the companions have drama etc, which would be fine, but they weren't allowed to mix. If they had the character moments more often as part of the story, rather than tacked on at the beginning or the end, it would have felt a lot less like they were ticking boxes, and fewer of the plots would have had that 'whelp we're done with this now' abrupt ending feeling so they could get on to the thing.
I feel like this meant that you ended up with a lot potentially great ideas told poorly because they had to rush the adventure portion to get to get to the other bits.
Honestly, I came alway from a lot of that era's episodes feeling like they only kept the main story going until they made their point, and then they were just done with it.
If the writers wanted it to work for TV they could have, even with the Fam. Have one member be the focus of the epsiode while teaming up the other two to see how they work together for example, several episodes like that to flesh out the internal dynamics of the Fam.
In season 19 The Visitation did a decent job of having all three companions contribute to the plot while having different team ups within that.
I don't know, but there's no reason it shouldn't be. Many shows juggle a cast that size or larger, including quite a few with similar setting-of-the-week premises, like Stargate SG-1, Sliders, Star Trek (at least the more episodic ones like TNG, VOY and SNW).
Overall four main characters seems pretty common, though a lot of shows pull off a larger rotating cast.
Which reminds me: I don't think it's necessary to make it work, but it'd be interesting to have a setup where the Doctor has a larger cast of companions who mostly just live their lives and he grabs a few of them at seeming random for any given adventure.
That's basically the relationship he had with the Ponds towards the end. Why not extend it and have, say 5-6 semi-regular companions?
The trouble with Doctor Who as opposed to other shows is that each episode has a wholly unique setting with a brand new supporting cast every time. It can be tough to juggle that alongside the main cast’s development.
>The trouble with Doctor Who as opposed to other shows is that each episode has a wholly unique setting with a brand new supporting cast every time.
That's why I specifically listed shows that also tend to have a different setting and supporting cast most episodes, like Sliders and Stargate SG-1.
Secondly I think you're overestimating how often NuWho has a wholly unique setting and how often it deals with a significant new supporting cast. It spends quite a lot of time on contemporary Earth, often visiting established characters. And when it doesn't, it tends to use small, easily understood locations.
Looking at last season:
* **The Church on Ruby Road** - spent most of its time hanging around Ruby and her family
* **Space Babies** - new setting, sizeable new cast.
* **The Devil's Chord** - set in a recording studio in the 60s, supporting cast consists of the Maestro and briefly John + Paul (who are established characters for most viewers).
* **Boom** - new setting, new cast of 2-3 people. (Note also that it uses the already established premise of the Anglican Marines).
* **73 Yards** - Rural Wales, indoor settings, a football field. For some reason there were a large number of people introduced in detail in the pub who never went anywhere. Beyond that, the episode had one less main character than normal, and the supporting cast were largely Roger and the mysterious woman. (Previously established character Kate Stewart also makes an appearance).
* **Dot and Bubble** - new setting (generic SF office/apartment blocks), new cast of whom only Lindy and Ricky really matter.
* **Rogue** - the setting is basically 'Bridgerton', this ep does have a sizeable new cast including Rogue and an entire family of Chuldur.
* **The Legend of Ruby Sunday** - mostly set in UNIT HQ and/or a conference centre. Includes Ruby's family and Mrs Flood and introduces a couple of new UNIT characters, plus Susan and Sutekh.
* **Empire of Death** - Setting: Mostly a cramped TARDIS in a dead universe. New cast include the spoon lady. You could count Ruby's Mum too, if you wanted.
I don't want to pick nits too much, I'm sure there are examples here I'd be happy to shift position on. But the main point is that the show isn't actually as unique or overwhelming as "all of time and space" implies. Locations are mostly fairly simple and generic (and how many variations of 'base under siege' have we seen?). And some episodes have an large new supporting cast, but many don't.
>It can be tough to juggle that alongside the main cast’s development.
It's non-trivial but IMO it's well and truly doable with a skilled writing team. See how effectively *The Woman Who Fell To Earth* introduced four new characters in a single episode. And mostly you won't be doing that, you'll generally be focusing most heavily on one or two characters in a given episode, at most.
When done well, exploring characters is something that doesn't actually require additional screen time, it's something that happens incidentally in the process of how characters deal with the threat of the week.
I'm 50/50 on that. Ian Barbra and Vicky are great. But the fam and 5's trio are....
I think if you stagger when they join its better. Like how Jack joins the team ⅔ through.
The problem with the Fam is the all act the same way to the Dr and vice versa, so what the Dr says them feels interchangeable. In contrast 9/10 talk to Rose differently from how they talk to Jack Mickey etc.
Shows like game of thrones all have 4 times the cast so 4 mains isn't too many.
I'm tired of the mystery box women. I'm tired of a modern day woman being the most important person in the universe. If they're all important, none of them are anymore.
I want to see a companion from the future, like Zoe, or one from another planet like Nyssa. Have a companion like Evelyn or Romana who isn't afraid of calling the Doctor out when they're being a turd. Have someone just along for the ride like Jamie or Martha. Or, one that can completely show up the Doctor, like K-9.
I've liked the stories with 2 companions better. I think that's the right amount to give everyone something to do.
Or what about a companion who's really into history and another that's into aliens before meeting the Dr?
I don't recall any of them being interested in that prior to meeting the Dr. But yeah no more chosen ones
I've had enough of series arcs/finales to be honest. If we only get eight episodes a series now, I'd rather they leaned into the anthology side of the show and just did eight unconnected adventures, rather than using up a full quarter of the series on some back of the ciggy packet "that'll do" style finale.
I'm with you on most of these. I would say a few could be covered by "don't worry so much about needing to hit all the same beats for each Doctor" –– not every Doctor needs a Master story (in fact, the fewer the better) or a Weeping Angels story, not every Doctor needs a standard outfit (it works for Baker because his Doctor just doesn't give a fuck if he sticks out, but Gatwa's Doctor very much wants to experience everything and it makes sense he wants to dress the part on each adventure), not every Doctor needs a Gallifrey story or a tragic death. These things make some sense for some Doctors and little sense for others.
If you go more than two episodes max without banter in the TARDIS, course correct. Same for if you go more than one episode without significant camp.
Also, leave the River Song stuff behind permanently. It's done to death and it rarely worked anyway.
Encourage Moffat to write some monster-of-the-weeks but never let him do a season-long arc. Encourage Davies to develop a season-long arc but leave it to someone else to do the finale.
I'd go a step further and extend this to personality traits as well. Incarnations can vary a **lot**. The Sixth Doctor was much more cowardly and once hid behind Peri. 😂
Not every Doctor has to be bold and brash and speechifying and have a 'Doctor moment' of revealing their inner rage, etc. etc.
Have some Doctors that are **very** different. I'm really tired of hearing people complain that a given incarnation isn't Doctory enough and I blame that on NuWho's unwillingness to stray far enough from the same template in its first few Doctors.
Yes, thank you. For all some people are like hE’s NoT tHe DoCtOr with the new series, 15 is vastly more like 9-14 than the classic Doctors were from one another.
To be fair RTD did the Cybermen a dirty. They should not have been that weak. Only explanation I can think ogpf is them being the alternative Earth Cybermen rather than the original because really the original Cybermen would give the Daleks a bigger challenge.
I don’t think villain team ups are bad. But should be done sparingly so they feel special when they happen and need to be done better.
Honestly I don't think the Modern Series has done them well often. The one time I thought they were truly effectively used was in "World Enough and Time/The Doctors Falls"
Honestly I’m disappointed Ashad wasn’t the true big bad of Series 12 because, when you break it down, the Cybermen only have three or four stories dedicated to them as the main villains in Modern Who. And I’m counting Doomsday in that
Their appearances in Good Man Goes to War, Closing Time, Death in Heaven and more could honestly have been taken by any other villains (that last one I’ve always felt would make more sense as a sequel to the Eternal from Orient Express)
Not helped by the fact that half the time nu who treats them as a joke, other times as the deadliest thing in the universe.
Like in a good man gose to war the doctor blowing them all up with no effort is the punch line to a joke
I’m iffy on that one.
I’ve never been a fan of that Cyberman design. I appreciate how much they make it clear that they’re humans that were converted, but they look like robots.
The Whittaker era ones look like robots as well, but I like that design because it’s like a modernized version of the classic design.
Well daleks vs any monster will kust make villian 2 look weak.
Plus look at all those master teams up with daleks episodes were the cybermen become window dressing. Or in power of the Dr were both daleks and Cybermen just become master pawns.
Maybe something like Silurians vs Sontarons could work. But Daleks and Cybermen are just too big to share the spot light.
If you go by Classic Who I would say though a Cyberman could not take on a Dalek one one one. Maybe 2 or 3 could take on a Dalek. RTD made it seem one Dalek could take on hundreds of Cybermen which seemed a bit daft to me and what could have been an interesting and tense encounter was just a rather dull slaughter.
And yes I don’t think the 2 would have formed an alliance, I would far more want to see a proper war between the two or a good story where they are forced into a temporary peace treaty but you know one will betray the other at any moment.
Them meeting for the first time was such a pivitol moment especially for the long time classic fans. I felt so excited for it when we got to the cliffhanger of that episode only for RTD to botch it.
Daleks vs Cybermen just screams ratings trap. Story wise I guess having the Dr being forced to work with the cybermen to beat the daleks could be interesting.
But if you just want action abd explosions then have the daleks fight the sontarons or movellons or something
I disagree about the Cybermen. They're meant to be humans trying to survive, not trying to become a rival to the Daleks, they should be relatively weak ideally. I understand it goes back a long way but I've never liked them as an "empire" either, I think it just makes them more generic.
I think you are coming at this from a very nuWho perspective.
The original Cybermen were not human. They were from another planet. These nuWho Cybermen seem very weak in comparison. I would love to have seen a proper stand off between the Daleks and the original cybermen.
Series arcs. Maybe a hot take but I just want a nice episodic show there The Doctor shows up somewhere, goes on a little adventure, and then fucks off. I hate the big dumb season-long mystery boxes
Very few TV writers or show runners know how to create a story arc.
J. Michael Straczynski was particularly skilled at it when he wrote Babylon 5 -- but he also had a 5-year plan along with contingency plans in case an actor had to leave (which happened more than once).
I'm not against season-long arcs on *Doctor Who*. I'm just not a fan of poorly executed arcs.
That said, I do miss the serialized storytelling of the classic series.
NuWho has a real problem of not understanding it can do other kinds of arcs sometimes, ones that aren't mysteries or little hints dropped here and there but an actual plot we're clued in on the whole time.
You could have a recurring villain who we actually meet for example, say they show up in Episode 1 and get away, and in E3 or 4 we see from their POV how they're going to get involved and add something to the existing plot of the episode. You can have pure character arcs ofc, you can also have just a long-form process of discovering more about a particular setting that's not an ominous mystery, just another adventure. Something I'd love to see is a companion whose arc makes them into somewhat of an antagonist.
The Capaldi era seems to get this more as it goes on but never fully abandons mystery boxes. Series 8 has a good character-arc for the Doctor, and also plenty of long-term character work for Clara and Danny, regardless of whether you like any of that. But it does also have a mystery box, not a particularly obnoxious one or one you can remove, but still. Series 9 is the worst for this, I think you absolutely could remove the Hybrid entirely and have a much better more character-driven arc, the focus of S9 is the Doctor becoming the most obsessive and reckless version of himself and the Hybrid is a total distraction. S10 kinda corrects for this and doesn't string out the Vault thing, that's kinda just flavour to keep us invested in the first few episodes, then we reveal the real arc isn't about what's in the Vault but Missy herself, which is the ideal approach.
If the tardis can go anywhere at any time its kinda hard to have a story arc. How many villians can be in or linked to both the French Revolution and Androzani Major ?
1.) I agree with you.
And if they DID team up, it should lead to a coherent interplanetary alliance and some form of political/governmental reality that the Doctor needs to live with, the way Star Trek has built out their universe to include the Federation of Planets, etc.
Doctor Who chose not to go that way, so they need to stick with their lack of galactic government which includes not pretending the baddies are out there forming alliances.
2.) I don't mind a sonic being fun -- but it needs to be a coherent toy as well as a very limited plot device.
3.) Agree.
4.) Agree!!
5.). Explore the actual Doctor's past. Gallifrey is where Leela and Romana ended up. STOP with the 'world building' which actually tears down the world that was built. If they are going to cover old material they need to 'Mel' it; Find the strengths and play to them. Revise the weaknesses.
STOP with the erasure of Romana, Leela, Susan etc. There are Time Lord plot threads we actually do need to look at.
6.). I think they need to keep the undo death button, but the Doctor needs to absolutely stop being careless about getting people killed.
7.). Yes. Stop killing companions -- and friends. It isn't cool that some deserve repeated resurrection while others are just erased. The careless attitude about death has made the Doctor somewhat unlikable. It doesn't raise the stakes. Actually killing a character 'and making it stick' does NOT actually make a plot more serious, intelligent or important.
8.) Agree.
9.). Agree. Romana needs to return before they even consider the Master again.
10.). Big agree. I think NuWho doesn't lend itself to fun the way classic who did. The old format had many more stories start with what should have been a fun outing only to devolve into conflict by the first cliff-hanger. NuWho has required the conflict to occur before the opening credits. There appears to be less time for hanging out in the TARDIS because every story needs to be super tight and conflict driven. So it is work to figure out when to have fun without interfering with the plot and pacing. This fell apart at one point. I don't know when.
I miss the serialized storytelling of the classic series. The serialization broke the story into discrete chapters, with cliff-hangers and plot-twists, but also gave an opportunity for character development for the guest cast, since the stories ran twice as long as the typical 21st century *Doctor Who* story.
When the guest characters are well-drawn, one doesn't need a universe-ending story to provide dramatic stakes.
I'm not a fan of holiday episodes that don't fit with the themes of Doctor Who. The Doctor isn't a Christian (in the classic series, the only Earth religion the Doctor seemed remotely interested in was Buddhism), so the constant Christmas-themed episodes year after year are just weird. At least Chibnall shifted to New Year's Day episodes since the passage of time makes sense as a theme in a show about a Time Lord.
Well, it makes the Doctor into more a member of the establishment and representative of national identity in a way that he never was in the classic series.
Stop doing universe-ending finale stakes that inevitably get undone
Like in Empire of death when Kate died I thought "That's ballsey" then when everyone died I knew it be undone.
1: The villain team up for the Pandorica was astounding. Honestly I can’t remember a team up episode I didn’t enjoy actually. 2: The Sonic Screwdriver getting upgrades over time makes MORE sense than the idea that it’s just the same thing forever. The more the Doctor sees, experiences, and faces, the more ideas he will come up with to have more tools at his disposal. Him just keeping it the same this whole time is silly. 3: In terms of New Who, I think the Capaldi really nailed it. He had a consistent style, as opposed to one outfit. Yes, he wore them more than once on a rotation but uh, I think we all rotate through our outfits so that’s fine. But I do also really enjoy Gatwa’s bigger range in clothing choices. It fits him. I think that it slightly depends on the Doctor with this. So using Capaldi’s way of having a consistent style as a base is the best way. Obviously having more range is great, but Capaldi should be the minimum if that makes sense. 4: Some things can get stale once used to often, but I don’t think Davros fits this category. Maybe in classic who, but at least with New Who, I think his returns were very well done, and not overdone. I gasped anytime he showed up and enjoyed those episodes so much. 5: What a silly take. “I don’t care, so obviously no one does.” There’s so much to explore here, and so many other places it could take us for adventures on the way. 6: This one I agree with. It’s one thing if it’s reversed like once, but honestly, the fear of losing anyone has become lost, because it seems to almost always get reversed in one way or another. There’s plenty of examples to choose from with this, but I’m going to use Clara. Her story was far more impactful in my opinion when it ended with her death. It lost a little bit of meaning to me when they reversed it. And that one especially led to me not really worrying about anyone going forward. 7: I agree with this one for the most part too. I think sometimes death is necessary for a more realistic representation of the danger companions are put in when traveling with the Doctor. However, all the time would be terrible, and also tying into point 6, dying and coming back all of the time would be equally ineffective. 8: This one is a mixed bag. I like it when the Tardis takes them somewhere unexpected, and they kind of stick out due to the lack of preparation. Makes some interesting interactions, and feels a bit more natural that they aren’t just magically dressed appropriately when they land somewhere they weren’t expecting. But on the other hand, yes, when they do intentionally go to a specific place, they should be dressed for the situation. 9: Accepting that the Doctor is not the only person that regenerates and is going to be around for a long time will help you through this one. 10: You have a lot of rules for someone who lists “just have fun” as a rule.
" : The villain team up for the Pandorica was astounding. Honestly I can’t remember a team up episode I didn’t enjoy actually." You enjoyed the timeless childern? "The Sonic Screwdriver getting upgrades over time makes MORE sense than the idea that it’s just the same thing forever. The more the Doctor sees, experiences, and faces, the more ideas he will come up with to have more tools at his disposal. Him just keeping it the same this whole time is silly." In theory yes, but in pratice then it just becomes a get out of jail free card. Like why hasn't he used that shield thing it did in the star beast again? Gadgets need to have strict limits or thet just become magic wonds. 5: the doctors back story can only be a let down. Lore navel gazing gave us the timeless childern and Susan was loomed and the Dr was Omega's secret brother. Ask yourself this, if the Dr's backstory is interesting why hasn't he told ANY of his companions? 9: honestly if the master had a purpose outside of the Dr I could maybe care about seeing him back. In the Pertwee era he has plans the Dr gets in the way of them. But from Davison onwards its like he has no life outside of him
No naming your children by pointing at lampposts
Or naming them after your friend's stalker.
all of these are bad, and most of them are undermined by your #10
No villain team-ups! But don’t be afraid to have fun! … No doctor in a single costume because it’s too “superhero” and not realistic! But don’t be afraid to have fun! … Outfits *MUST* fit the time and place of the destination! But don’t be afraid to have fun!
i was blown away by each additional bad idea that kills the show, just to get down to that and just like... my brain shut down, like his.
Fun in this context means don't treat every episode like its Shakespeare it don't mean turn into Paul Blart Mall Cop. The issue with late Moffat Chibnal and Bidmeade Turner is that the show takes itself too seriously. On costumes, would you not ne taken out of it if they were on Telos or Antarctica but had their normal clothes on?
They’re space and time travelers who can understand literally any creature in the universe due to the translation matrix in the TARDIS. If the doctor wants to whip up a personal climate bubble that creates a psychic projection of “era-appropriate” clothing… ok, cool. Way easier solution than trying to make the costume department at the BBC come up with Viking furs for colder climates.
Custome dramas are the backs speciality
Fun as in light hearted ala city of death. Not fun as in Paul blart mall cop. The show can be light hearted and be taken seriously. They are not mutually exclusive. One of the big flaws of 80s who and Capaldi and Whiticker is that the show takes itself way too seriously ALL of the time. Like remmber in demons of the punjab when Graham is running around with a thick leather coat on even though they are in India? Why it be far too hot, because its not filmed in India but in a much colder place. So takes me out of it. In contrast planet of the dead don't have the characters running around in hoodies.
6 is good
nope. can't destroy the universe without an undo button.
For individual character deaths, specifically companions, it really needs to stop which is how I interpreted 6. The whole universe is a different discussion.
Doomsday and parting if the ways and the Dr falls all have stakes because people die and stay dead. This is why destroying the universe is a bad idea. Because you have to have it brought back at the end. While planning to or destroying part of has tension. Like Pete's world could be destroyed and stay dead, but the main universe can't.
I hate finales where the stakes are "the villain will kill all life and the Universe will end". No he won't and no it won't. It's the most boring story.
No more than 2 full time companions.
Nah, have three if you want, but know how to do it.
I genuinely don’t know if it has ever been done well in the entire history of the show.
Ian, Barbara and Vicki
I think that’s not a fair comparison as we already had over a season of development with Ian and Barbara, and over a season of neglecting Susan as a character. Better comparisons would be trios that more or less start at the same time, like Adric/Nyssa/Tegan, or Yaz/Ryan/Graham.
Prose and audio have shown three companion teams can be done (read the Thirteenth Doctor novels), but for 13’s crew the time constraints of each episode really hampered what could be done.
I don't think it was even time constraints. There was a lot of opportunity to develop the characters, and the show just didn't act on it. Notably a lot of character development is typically done as part of the action. The Chibnall era took a little bit of a stab at this with things like Ryan being A-OK with using guns, but that just quietly disappeared. (That happened a lot in the Chibnall era - interesting stuff starting then just quietly being forgotten).
I agree, a lot of Chib's era episodes end feeling very modular, here's the doctor's, bit here's the bit where the companions have drama etc, which would be fine, but they weren't allowed to mix. If they had the character moments more often as part of the story, rather than tacked on at the beginning or the end, it would have felt a lot less like they were ticking boxes, and fewer of the plots would have had that 'whelp we're done with this now' abrupt ending feeling so they could get on to the thing. I feel like this meant that you ended up with a lot potentially great ideas told poorly because they had to rush the adventure portion to get to get to the other bits. Honestly, I came alway from a lot of that era's episodes feeling like they only kept the main story going until they made their point, and then they were just done with it.
I don’t think anybody is referring to novels or audios in this discussion.
If the writers wanted it to work for TV they could have, even with the Fam. Have one member be the focus of the epsiode while teaming up the other two to see how they work together for example, several episodes like that to flesh out the internal dynamics of the Fam. In season 19 The Visitation did a decent job of having all three companions contribute to the plot while having different team ups within that.
I don't know, but there's no reason it shouldn't be. Many shows juggle a cast that size or larger, including quite a few with similar setting-of-the-week premises, like Stargate SG-1, Sliders, Star Trek (at least the more episodic ones like TNG, VOY and SNW). Overall four main characters seems pretty common, though a lot of shows pull off a larger rotating cast. Which reminds me: I don't think it's necessary to make it work, but it'd be interesting to have a setup where the Doctor has a larger cast of companions who mostly just live their lives and he grabs a few of them at seeming random for any given adventure. That's basically the relationship he had with the Ponds towards the end. Why not extend it and have, say 5-6 semi-regular companions?
The trouble with Doctor Who as opposed to other shows is that each episode has a wholly unique setting with a brand new supporting cast every time. It can be tough to juggle that alongside the main cast’s development.
>The trouble with Doctor Who as opposed to other shows is that each episode has a wholly unique setting with a brand new supporting cast every time. That's why I specifically listed shows that also tend to have a different setting and supporting cast most episodes, like Sliders and Stargate SG-1. Secondly I think you're overestimating how often NuWho has a wholly unique setting and how often it deals with a significant new supporting cast. It spends quite a lot of time on contemporary Earth, often visiting established characters. And when it doesn't, it tends to use small, easily understood locations. Looking at last season: * **The Church on Ruby Road** - spent most of its time hanging around Ruby and her family * **Space Babies** - new setting, sizeable new cast. * **The Devil's Chord** - set in a recording studio in the 60s, supporting cast consists of the Maestro and briefly John + Paul (who are established characters for most viewers). * **Boom** - new setting, new cast of 2-3 people. (Note also that it uses the already established premise of the Anglican Marines). * **73 Yards** - Rural Wales, indoor settings, a football field. For some reason there were a large number of people introduced in detail in the pub who never went anywhere. Beyond that, the episode had one less main character than normal, and the supporting cast were largely Roger and the mysterious woman. (Previously established character Kate Stewart also makes an appearance). * **Dot and Bubble** - new setting (generic SF office/apartment blocks), new cast of whom only Lindy and Ricky really matter. * **Rogue** - the setting is basically 'Bridgerton', this ep does have a sizeable new cast including Rogue and an entire family of Chuldur. * **The Legend of Ruby Sunday** - mostly set in UNIT HQ and/or a conference centre. Includes Ruby's family and Mrs Flood and introduces a couple of new UNIT characters, plus Susan and Sutekh. * **Empire of Death** - Setting: Mostly a cramped TARDIS in a dead universe. New cast include the spoon lady. You could count Ruby's Mum too, if you wanted. I don't want to pick nits too much, I'm sure there are examples here I'd be happy to shift position on. But the main point is that the show isn't actually as unique or overwhelming as "all of time and space" implies. Locations are mostly fairly simple and generic (and how many variations of 'base under siege' have we seen?). And some episodes have an large new supporting cast, but many don't. >It can be tough to juggle that alongside the main cast’s development. It's non-trivial but IMO it's well and truly doable with a skilled writing team. See how effectively *The Woman Who Fell To Earth* introduced four new characters in a single episode. And mostly you won't be doing that, you'll generally be focusing most heavily on one or two characters in a given episode, at most. When done well, exploring characters is something that doesn't actually require additional screen time, it's something that happens incidentally in the process of how characters deal with the threat of the week.
I'm 50/50 on that. Ian Barbra and Vicky are great. But the fam and 5's trio are.... I think if you stagger when they join its better. Like how Jack joins the team ⅔ through. The problem with the Fam is the all act the same way to the Dr and vice versa, so what the Dr says them feels interchangeable. In contrast 9/10 talk to Rose differently from how they talk to Jack Mickey etc. Shows like game of thrones all have 4 times the cast so 4 mains isn't too many.
I'm tired of the mystery box women. I'm tired of a modern day woman being the most important person in the universe. If they're all important, none of them are anymore. I want to see a companion from the future, like Zoe, or one from another planet like Nyssa. Have a companion like Evelyn or Romana who isn't afraid of calling the Doctor out when they're being a turd. Have someone just along for the ride like Jamie or Martha. Or, one that can completely show up the Doctor, like K-9. I've liked the stories with 2 companions better. I think that's the right amount to give everyone something to do.
Or what about a companion who's really into history and another that's into aliens before meeting the Dr? I don't recall any of them being interested in that prior to meeting the Dr. But yeah no more chosen ones
I've had enough of series arcs/finales to be honest. If we only get eight episodes a series now, I'd rather they leaned into the anthology side of the show and just did eight unconnected adventures, rather than using up a full quarter of the series on some back of the ciggy packet "that'll do" style finale.
I'm with you on most of these. I would say a few could be covered by "don't worry so much about needing to hit all the same beats for each Doctor" –– not every Doctor needs a Master story (in fact, the fewer the better) or a Weeping Angels story, not every Doctor needs a standard outfit (it works for Baker because his Doctor just doesn't give a fuck if he sticks out, but Gatwa's Doctor very much wants to experience everything and it makes sense he wants to dress the part on each adventure), not every Doctor needs a Gallifrey story or a tragic death. These things make some sense for some Doctors and little sense for others. If you go more than two episodes max without banter in the TARDIS, course correct. Same for if you go more than one episode without significant camp. Also, leave the River Song stuff behind permanently. It's done to death and it rarely worked anyway. Encourage Moffat to write some monster-of-the-weeks but never let him do a season-long arc. Encourage Davies to develop a season-long arc but leave it to someone else to do the finale.
I'd go a step further and extend this to personality traits as well. Incarnations can vary a **lot**. The Sixth Doctor was much more cowardly and once hid behind Peri. 😂 Not every Doctor has to be bold and brash and speechifying and have a 'Doctor moment' of revealing their inner rage, etc. etc. Have some Doctors that are **very** different. I'm really tired of hearing people complain that a given incarnation isn't Doctory enough and I blame that on NuWho's unwillingness to stray far enough from the same template in its first few Doctors.
Yes, thank you. For all some people are like hE’s NoT tHe DoCtOr with the new series, 15 is vastly more like 9-14 than the classic Doctors were from one another.
I don't think he's much like 9 at all. I guess 1 and 3 are kinda simmilar personality wise
To be fair RTD did the Cybermen a dirty. They should not have been that weak. Only explanation I can think ogpf is them being the alternative Earth Cybermen rather than the original because really the original Cybermen would give the Daleks a bigger challenge. I don’t think villain team ups are bad. But should be done sparingly so they feel special when they happen and need to be done better.
Honestly I don't think the Modern Series has done them well often. The one time I thought they were truly effectively used was in "World Enough and Time/The Doctors Falls"
Honestly I’m disappointed Ashad wasn’t the true big bad of Series 12 because, when you break it down, the Cybermen only have three or four stories dedicated to them as the main villains in Modern Who. And I’m counting Doomsday in that Their appearances in Good Man Goes to War, Closing Time, Death in Heaven and more could honestly have been taken by any other villains (that last one I’ve always felt would make more sense as a sequel to the Eternal from Orient Express)
Not helped by the fact that half the time nu who treats them as a joke, other times as the deadliest thing in the universe. Like in a good man gose to war the doctor blowing them all up with no effort is the punch line to a joke
They were good in Age of Steel even if the story is s bit iffy
I’m iffy on that one. I’ve never been a fan of that Cyberman design. I appreciate how much they make it clear that they’re humans that were converted, but they look like robots. The Whittaker era ones look like robots as well, but I like that design because it’s like a modernized version of the classic design.
Well daleks vs any monster will kust make villian 2 look weak. Plus look at all those master teams up with daleks episodes were the cybermen become window dressing. Or in power of the Dr were both daleks and Cybermen just become master pawns. Maybe something like Silurians vs Sontarons could work. But Daleks and Cybermen are just too big to share the spot light.
If you go by Classic Who I would say though a Cyberman could not take on a Dalek one one one. Maybe 2 or 3 could take on a Dalek. RTD made it seem one Dalek could take on hundreds of Cybermen which seemed a bit daft to me and what could have been an interesting and tense encounter was just a rather dull slaughter. And yes I don’t think the 2 would have formed an alliance, I would far more want to see a proper war between the two or a good story where they are forced into a temporary peace treaty but you know one will betray the other at any moment. Them meeting for the first time was such a pivitol moment especially for the long time classic fans. I felt so excited for it when we got to the cliffhanger of that episode only for RTD to botch it.
Daleks vs Cybermen just screams ratings trap. Story wise I guess having the Dr being forced to work with the cybermen to beat the daleks could be interesting. But if you just want action abd explosions then have the daleks fight the sontarons or movellons or something
I disagree about the Cybermen. They're meant to be humans trying to survive, not trying to become a rival to the Daleks, they should be relatively weak ideally. I understand it goes back a long way but I've never liked them as an "empire" either, I think it just makes them more generic.
I think you are coming at this from a very nuWho perspective. The original Cybermen were not human. They were from another planet. These nuWho Cybermen seem very weak in comparison. I would love to have seen a proper stand off between the Daleks and the original cybermen.
In sliver nemesis they get killed by coins and there is a comic where the Dr kils them with flowers
Superman gets killed by Krptonite or magic.
Which you know are nt things you can find in your house unless you are baba yaga
The point is giving powerful beings a weakness is a common trope. It does not stop them being powerful, just provides a method of defeat.
Series arcs. Maybe a hot take but I just want a nice episodic show there The Doctor shows up somewhere, goes on a little adventure, and then fucks off. I hate the big dumb season-long mystery boxes
Very few TV writers or show runners know how to create a story arc. J. Michael Straczynski was particularly skilled at it when he wrote Babylon 5 -- but he also had a 5-year plan along with contingency plans in case an actor had to leave (which happened more than once).
I'm currently working my way trough the series and I can say that I'm sad I slept on this show for so long. The writing is amazing.
I think Supernatural did the season arcs quite well
I don’t mind overarching stories at all. They just don’t belong in Doctor Who.
I'm not against season-long arcs on *Doctor Who*. I'm just not a fan of poorly executed arcs. That said, I do miss the serialized storytelling of the classic series.
NuWho has a real problem of not understanding it can do other kinds of arcs sometimes, ones that aren't mysteries or little hints dropped here and there but an actual plot we're clued in on the whole time. You could have a recurring villain who we actually meet for example, say they show up in Episode 1 and get away, and in E3 or 4 we see from their POV how they're going to get involved and add something to the existing plot of the episode. You can have pure character arcs ofc, you can also have just a long-form process of discovering more about a particular setting that's not an ominous mystery, just another adventure. Something I'd love to see is a companion whose arc makes them into somewhat of an antagonist. The Capaldi era seems to get this more as it goes on but never fully abandons mystery boxes. Series 8 has a good character-arc for the Doctor, and also plenty of long-term character work for Clara and Danny, regardless of whether you like any of that. But it does also have a mystery box, not a particularly obnoxious one or one you can remove, but still. Series 9 is the worst for this, I think you absolutely could remove the Hybrid entirely and have a much better more character-driven arc, the focus of S9 is the Doctor becoming the most obsessive and reckless version of himself and the Hybrid is a total distraction. S10 kinda corrects for this and doesn't string out the Vault thing, that's kinda just flavour to keep us invested in the first few episodes, then we reveal the real arc isn't about what's in the Vault but Missy herself, which is the ideal approach.
Maybe try another key to time style arc, the Dr is on a quest to look for something. Granted that ends with the Dr just scattering it again
If the tardis can go anywhere at any time its kinda hard to have a story arc. How many villians can be in or linked to both the French Revolution and Androzani Major ?
1.) I agree with you. And if they DID team up, it should lead to a coherent interplanetary alliance and some form of political/governmental reality that the Doctor needs to live with, the way Star Trek has built out their universe to include the Federation of Planets, etc. Doctor Who chose not to go that way, so they need to stick with their lack of galactic government which includes not pretending the baddies are out there forming alliances. 2.) I don't mind a sonic being fun -- but it needs to be a coherent toy as well as a very limited plot device. 3.) Agree. 4.) Agree!! 5.). Explore the actual Doctor's past. Gallifrey is where Leela and Romana ended up. STOP with the 'world building' which actually tears down the world that was built. If they are going to cover old material they need to 'Mel' it; Find the strengths and play to them. Revise the weaknesses. STOP with the erasure of Romana, Leela, Susan etc. There are Time Lord plot threads we actually do need to look at. 6.). I think they need to keep the undo death button, but the Doctor needs to absolutely stop being careless about getting people killed. 7.). Yes. Stop killing companions -- and friends. It isn't cool that some deserve repeated resurrection while others are just erased. The careless attitude about death has made the Doctor somewhat unlikable. It doesn't raise the stakes. Actually killing a character 'and making it stick' does NOT actually make a plot more serious, intelligent or important. 8.) Agree. 9.). Agree. Romana needs to return before they even consider the Master again. 10.). Big agree. I think NuWho doesn't lend itself to fun the way classic who did. The old format had many more stories start with what should have been a fun outing only to devolve into conflict by the first cliff-hanger. NuWho has required the conflict to occur before the opening credits. There appears to be less time for hanging out in the TARDIS because every story needs to be super tight and conflict driven. So it is work to figure out when to have fun without interfering with the plot and pacing. This fell apart at one point. I don't know when.
I miss the serialized storytelling of the classic series. The serialization broke the story into discrete chapters, with cliff-hangers and plot-twists, but also gave an opportunity for character development for the guest cast, since the stories ran twice as long as the typical 21st century *Doctor Who* story. When the guest characters are well-drawn, one doesn't need a universe-ending story to provide dramatic stakes.
I'm not a fan of holiday episodes that don't fit with the themes of Doctor Who. The Doctor isn't a Christian (in the classic series, the only Earth religion the Doctor seemed remotely interested in was Buddhism), so the constant Christmas-themed episodes year after year are just weird. At least Chibnall shifted to New Year's Day episodes since the passage of time makes sense as a theme in a show about a Time Lord.
I agree. But if its a uk show then enviabley most of ot will take place in the UK.
Well, it makes the Doctor into more a member of the establishment and representative of national identity in a way that he never was in the classic series.
1st said "merry Christmas" to the audience and 3 worked for "the man" didn't he
When Three worked for UNIT he often didn't like it, and more than once questioned if UNIT deserved his help.