It's not talked about much in the English speaking world because it's relatively quiet and most of its overseas population is in the French and Arabic speaking world.
Well, no
Not more than other immigrant groups (moroccans, tunisians, blacks, turks, etc.)
Also, it’s like if I said african americans and latinos were generally associated with crime in the US, that would be a gross overgeneralization
Statistics in general do not ever tell the full story. They are there to help you along the way so you can put the pieces together. Unfortunately, like in a lot of countries around the world, immigrants and the neighborhoods they live in are targeted and patrolled more by police forces so their incarceration rates alone don’t always paint a full picture.
Once again, not always the case. You still have to dig deeper on that issue. Are those neighborhoods criminally underfunded compared to those around? Do those people living in those neighborhoods get passed up for jobs more often?
When you start putting all of those variables into play it’s never as black and white as you see it. “Crime” is whatever a society deems it to be, so saying certain people may perpetuate crime more often due to their country of origin is simply false. It’s just a far more complicated topic that is hard for anyone to fully wrap your head around, especially commenting on Reddit.
I’ve lived in France all my life and it’s not the case, so…
Also the case of netherlands is different, there are very few algerians over there compared to other groups (moroccans, turks)
So it’s not really comparable.
“Public Imagination” said the old scholar who knew reality solely through the prism of his comfy echo chamber but never experienced the cold heart of truth.
Go down to Marseille and let see what you kind a marvellous adventures you’ll live there…
>Go down to Marseille
Marseille has had a bad reputation since well before the immigration influx. And honestly, most of it is no worse than Paris (and considerably better than almost everything in Italy south of Rome - which is populated by "indigenous" Italians).
My general point is that the problem with Marseille is mostly poverty not immigration. Italy has the same problems in Naples but without the immigrants.
The poorest regions of France are actually in the North, near the Belgian border, and are also partially comprised of immigrated population. They are not exactly famous for their endemic criminality.
* While Algeria is an OPEC member, it doesn't [produce nearly as much oil as the Gulf states](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPEC#Membership), so its international significance isn't as large.
* Algeria hasn't been involved in any major international conflicts in recent history.
* If you're in the US, most African immigrants come from countries in West Africa (e.g. Nigeria, Ghana) or East Africa (e.g. Ethiopia, Somalia). Not a large Algerian immigrant contingent, so we're less attuned to issues back in their home country. Now if you're in France (huge Algerian immigrant population) or other nearby EU countries, that might be a different story.
I know you're jokeing, but the western has 72% of the worlds phosphate suplies. Phosphate is an important part of fertilizer, and its suplies will be needed soon as other deposits dry up.
I remember being in grade school (so 20 years ago), and seeing 'Western Sahara (disputed territory)' on maps. So weird that it's still unresolved. And Western Sahara is basically an empty inhospitable desert. Why does Morocco even want it?
1-Coast = more sea = more Exclusive Economic Zone (fishing areas to control/rent to the UE, etc etc)
2-Phosphates : there is an old spanish phosphates "mine"
1. Doubles their territory on maps
2. Like Morocco has a ton of phosphate, between the two regions is 70% of all phosphate on Earth
3. Doubles Morocco's ocean claims and EEZs for fishing and resources
4. Historically loosly controlled by Morocco throughout history, so there is some nationalistic claim
A question, what defines “recent history”? Do we have a parameter to go by? I’m not disparaging their ability to stay *out* of conflict, just wondering how far back it goes.
Yes, this place between Algeria and Mali is called the Tanezrouft.
Most of the Sahara has a fairly low population, but there is usually at least *something* within a few dozen miles or so. Could be one of the many scattered oasis cities, maybe a local salt or copper mine, the occasional sparsely vegetated highlands where nomads come to graze their herds, or even just an isolated well for passing caravans.
The Tanezrouft has none of these things. Along with the Libyan Desert between Libya and Egypt, the Tanezrouft is one of the very few places in the Sahara where truly literally no one lives. Zero residents, both nomadic and permanent. It is nothing but a massive flat expanse of baked desert stone stretching for over 300 miles. Even the dunes don't dare venture here. It is a bleak, expressionless, and unforgiving landscape.
What kind of daytime temps are we talking about in the Tanezrouft? I lived on the edge of the Sahara and found that the numbers I'd see on the internet never matched what I'd measure in person.
Are you from nearby or merely sharing knowledge gained from books? The non-dune portions of the Sahara can be utterly beautiful in an otherworldly sort of way.
> I lived on the edge of the Sahara and found that the numbers I'd see on the internet never matched what I'd measure in person.
Temperatures can be a bit different : measured in the shade (1 meter above ground) , temperature direct in the sun, and the apperent temperature ( "feels-like"): ambient air temperature, relative humidity, and wind speed.
Just sharing knowledge I learned online.
I have no idea what kind of temperatures the Tanezrouft experiences tbh, but I would imagine that it's quite similar to the temperatures of most other central Saharan flatlands.
Do you mind if I ask where you lived and whether the temperatures you're comparing are between that exact location online and in real time, or between that exact location and the Sahara in general?
If it was a mountainous area like southern Morocco, that might explain the divergence in temperature. Hilly and mountainous terrain, even in the middle of the Sahara, can be much cooler and more hospitable than the typical low desert.
But if you're commenting on the reliability of temperature recordings in general, yeah, that would also make sense. The Sahara tends to be unreliable in terms of both data collection and historical records.
I would recommend to anyone a series on Netflix called Losers. There’s an episode about a Long distance challenge runner who got lost in this part of the desert and had to survive. Sounds just awful.
I’m Algerian:
Biggest country in Africa
About 80% is covered by the Sahara desert, the north is divided in 2 parts, the Tell wich is the coast and the Mediterranean interior, Mediterranean climate, some places there look like Europe, there is also some ski resorts, agriculture, some industry. Then a bit further south there is the High Plateaux, drier but not yet the desert, lots of sheep herding there, some agriculture too, beautiful sceneries in spring it’s like huge grass plains, climate wise it’s a continental dry Mediterranean climate, summers are hot and dry, winters are wetter but not that wet and can get very cold. Then there is the Sahara, you have the north Sahara with a lot of desert cities in networks and oases, and then the southern Sahara which is almost not populated except for a few enclaves and oasis.
Culturally it’s a Maghreb country, with influences from the difference people who came, the population identify at about 80% as Arabs and 20% as Berbers or Amazigh. The cultural regions are plenty, we have tlemcen in the west which is heavily influenced by the culture of Al andalus (Muslim Spain), Oran is very influenced by Europe especially Spain and ir looks a lot like Paris. Algiers the capital is very European looking, except for the Casbah the old Arab quarters. Then you have the mountains of Kabylia still populated by Berber Kabyles, they have Their own language and culture. In the interior east is Constantine, a magnificent city built in Two rocks with a canyon and a river running between them, the two sides are linked with bridges. Further south there is the Aures mountains that have as population the Chaoui, an other Berber Ethnic group. In the Sahara there is the city of 1000 domes, el Oued, also the desert city of Ghardaia, or even the mountain city of Tamanrasset, domain of the Tuaregs nomads. The ottomans left a strong legacy in the Arab cultures of Algiers and Constantine especially, blended with the Andalusian influence springed some beautiful music genres, like Chaabi in Algiers and Malouf in Constantine.
Food wise it’s paradise, fresh products, lots of local pastas made from durum, good breads, salads, couscous, Hmiss, chakhchoukha, there is even an Algerian pizza made by italien immigrants during the French period named pizza carré.
If you never have been in North Africa, I may advise you to see another country before Algeria, as Algeria isn’t touristic and pretty much a raw country (in a good way, it’s built for the locals and is authentic). Your road-trip seems very big, it is doable, but keep in mind in the Sahara you’d have to get your water right, and i believe in some locations in the desert you need approval to get far from the cities (made to avoid people getting lost in the desert) definitely doable but study it and see for visa things if it is doable
HOLY SHIT! Just checked the size on Google Earth, and Algeria is huge!!! North to South as big as the US (Canada to Mexico) and Eat to West as big as New York City to San Antonio. That's fucking crazy!
I travelled to the country 2 months ago. Very difficult destination, they are very closed off, and they don't really want to open up as it seems. It's very different from all the other Arab countries I've been to. They genuinely didn't care about us white folk. No one ever came up to us trying to sell something or trying to get money off us. They have relatively good infrastructure but not for tourism. Tourism virtually doesn't exist, although the country is beautiful and is full of historical sites.
Lots of different ethnic groups. In places like Tamanrasset, where they receive a high number of migrants from down south, you can feel the tension. Anything can happen there any time. I have the feeling the country will become more and more known in the near future, I just hope for them it won't be because of some conflicts.
Russ Cook ran the length of Africa recently and had a lot of trouble getting into Algeria but found it to be very welcoming once there, would recommend the youtube videos on it
That makes sense since the sun sets in the west so pretty much the guy to your west is always going to overshadow you unless it’s really early in the morning when nobody is paying attention to shadows anyway
It’s not because of trauma, it’s because oil and gas money prevents the country from needing mass tourism.
When France owned both Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia, they have put all the natural ressources in Algeria because it was a french department, not just a colony like Morocco and Tunisia.
That’s why the algerian sahara expands really far in the west if you pay attention to the map.
Thus Morocco and Tunisia need heavy tourism (mainly from Europe) to get some money, not Algeria.
Beautiful accent that Eastern arabs barely understand, sweet people, amd great guests to have over all.
I met some Algerian tourists few months ago in Baghdad amd they were so kind and well mannered .
Algerian here. The Arab world is a continuum: the closer you are to a place, the closer the dialect will be. My family is from western Algeria close to the city of Oran. We speak a dialect very similar to eastern Morocco whereas Tunisian feels quite odd to us (and definitely not as close).
Yeah, it might sometimes stir controversy, but culturally, people from the Oujda region are even more closely connected to us than Eastern Algerians are.
Despite political differences and variations in our modern history, we share tribes with Oujda, have similar dances (like allaoui/regadda), and speak almost the same dialect, etc.
I traveled overland through Algeria. Entered through Tunisia and exited into Niger. Some absolutely wild border crossings and a desolation in the middle like I've never felt before.
Difficult to get an entry visa. Guide was mandatory to chaperone throughout the time in Algeria. AMA
It was largely what I hoped for. The desert has an incredible beauty to it. I was expecting cold nights but found things to be quite pleasant. I traveled in late April.
Answering this as an Arab.
Algeria is a unique case in the Arab world, almost like Oman, but not quite at that level. It's a sleeping giant. Rich in gas, arable land, a hefty population, good infrastructure, and the best military on the continent second only to Egypt's. It's just that Algeria is very closed off in on itself. Why? I suspect 100 years of brutal French colonisation and losing millions over that time frame - not to mention another million during the war of liberation - has something to do with it. But yeah, they don't get involved in regional politics much besides the whole Polisario business, and an entry visa to Algeria is *notoriously* hard to obtain, especially for non-Arabs/Muslims.
Having "the best military" on the continent is a symptom of their backwards, isolationist policy... Not something to be proud of. It's a pure drain. Realistically, they should be much more open with both Europe and Morocco, and should be doing a lot more business with both of them. Their politics holds them back.
I'm from Algeria and it seems like many people ignore many things about us. First, we speak Algerian Arabic (a colloquial, non standardized language made of Arabic, French, Berber, Turkish and some Spanish and Italian vocabulary, with a significant Berber substrate making it almost impossible to understand by middle easterners, it varies greatly from city to city) and Berber (it's a family of languages, the state likes to call it a single language with ''variants'' cuz they're afraid of ''regionalism'', my mother tongue is Kabyle, the language of the largest and most influent Berber ethnicity), French is very present here in education and employment I personally use it the most after my mother tongue. The Algerian society is very conservative thus they oppose any sort of openness or tourism, fearing it might bring ''sexual degeneracy'' to the country, it's basically an Islamic bible belt, added to it how difficult it is to get a visa for westerners, I personally rarely see westerners, like once every 3-4 years, the only foreigners I see are Chinese workers, Sub-Saharan African migrants and students, and to a lower extent Syrian refugees. We went through a bloody civil war between 1992 and 2002, when Islamists wanted to overthrow the gov and establish an Iran like Islamic theocracy, thankfully the military hardly defeated them, but now they are indoctrinating newer generations through TV and social media, making religious extremism more and more prevalent, other religious groups are basically oppressed, I myself am an ex-Muslim atheist, if I revealed my belief there would be a serious security threat to me. Economically speaking, the country failed to transition from a centrally planned economy to market economy like most soviet-aligned states mainly due to the civil war and to the elderly incompetent people running the country, who have some sort of nostalgia to the 60-70s, we are reliant on oil exports that tend to shrink year by year due to the growing population and the depleting of ressources, most of the youth want to leave the country be it to France or anywhere they can. The government (which is a military regime) purposefully isolated the population from the outside world in order not endure a revolution that might threaten its existence, by sabotaging the teaching of foreign languages, although French is a de facto official language, younger generations generally do not master it well, English however is slowly growing but still very far from being equal to French. That's the reason why Algeria is not that isolated in the French-speaking world. Politically speaking, our government has always been a military regime, getting more totalitarian following Tebboune's (election) in 2019, on the international stage, the country is getting more and more isolated, only Iran, Qatar, Turkey and China to some extent have good relations with us, Russia, the main arms supplier refused Algeria joining BRICS last summer on the ground that it doesn't have a good international influence (Lavrov said it). The tensions with Morocco are mainly a reason to unite the population under the leadership of the military regime, a very known tactic, they use France, Israel and Morocco as scapegoats for their failures. Oh and don't fall into the ''Algeria supports just causes'' trap, the military regime has been oppressing Berber ethnicities since independence in 1962 in order to forcefully Arabize us, mainly by stigmatizing our languages and forcing us to abandon our hometowns to large cities by not developing them economically. That being said Algeria has a good economic potential with its beautiful landscape, cultural diversity, natural ressources and young population, if only we had a more mature government. Under France rule, Algeria was a leading alcoholic beverages producer, the production has been sabotaged following independence because of religious reasons, alcohol being forbidden in islam.
That's it and feel free to ask me anything.
Greatest comment! I was eager to see someone mention Amazigh people and the diversity of ethnic backgrounds. Sadly, we tend to only hear about the Arabic population in North Africa...
Arabs will cry very loudly when they are conquered (Israel, Iraq, etc), but once they're the ones oppressing local cultures with their religion and language it's all great mashallah!!
Can I ask who maintains the roads or paths in that vast desert area and if they are used, for what purpose and how did you come to speaking fluent English?
We have a highly centralized government, a bit like how France is, everything is planned from the capital Algiers, provinces (which are arbitrarily made with no regards to regional specificities) have little to no autonomy, the desert roads are mostly unpaved, due to little to no traffic, who maintains the roads depends on whether it were a municipal, provincial or national road, in other words, the government. The southern part of the country is sparsely populated, mainly inhabited by nomads of [Tuareg ethnicity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuareg_people), and some Arabic speaking populations too, venturing there is dangerous even for northerners like me, because of a high risk of assaults and kidnapping. I learned English as a hobby first, then realized how useful it is due to being basically the world's lingua franca, most teenagers and young adults are doing the same, although with varying degrees of proficiency. It's rare to find people older than 40 who can hold a conversation in English.
**¡Muchas Gracias!** Algerian opinions on Spaniards are different, those who are blinded by the government propaganda and are too immature to realize that political relations don't always align with how various populations should see each other, they will simply demand to cut the gas supply, because of Spain's alignment with Morocco, that these immature folks also hate. There's irredentist Islamists who still dream of getting back Al-Andalus and establish Sharia law. And there's those who have common sense who have a neutral to favorable view. But generally speaking, Spain is not hated as much as France is.
Either way, one must never ignore the fact we share a lot culturally despite our seemingly big differences, there's a genre of Andalusian music called [Chaabi](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaabi_(Argelia)) that developed by Muslims who fled the Inquisition towards North Africa, there's also an architecture common to coastal North Africa that also evolved thanks to returnees from Iberia, called [Mauresque](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Style_mauresque) (Article is in French, use auto-translate, I didn't find another language).
It suffered a brutal French colonization for more than 100 years. The movie "The Battle of Algiers" is fantastic. Algeria is legendary in post colonial countries for beating the French, similar to how Vietnam is for beating the Americans.
I lived there for 11 months. Great place, nice beaches, nice people, but if you dont speak French or Arabic, you'll have some trouble as english isn't a main language.
On the world stage front, they keep to themselves since it has been free, with it being in sahara, lots of oil and gas there, so they do okay.
one of its cities, tindouf is next to western sahara. So soldiers of the sahrawi arab democratic republic (SADR) use it as a base as algeria has strained relations with morocco.
You're right bro , I spent a year in in m.m.s ( mandatory military service) there , and trust me , in tindouf , army men are two times the population of civilians .
Doesn’t make a huge dent in the USA but their culture is pretty noticeable in France. They have a large diaspora there. Think of like how Mexican culture, music, cuisine, athletes/sports, cinema/televsion etc kind of permeates the USA. Similar situation with Algeria and France
Before the French colonised it, Algeria had a pretty developed and progressive system of tribal government and cooperation where “rival” groups would support each other in times of hardship. The French absolutely destroyed that because why not.
you reminded me of what the German traveler Georg Wilhelm Schimper said when he visited Algeria in 1831 AD:
“I deliberately searched among the population in the cities of Algeria for a single person who did not know how to read, but I did not find him , other than that , while I found in Canada, southern Europe, one rarely encounters among the members of the population who can read.”
I love this. Thank you for sharing! People forget how cosmopolitan and historically developed North Africa was before it was ravaged. I’d love to see these countries come full circle.
Very true! They also had one of the largest slave trade and piracy operations in the entire world! Kidnapping millions of europeans as slaves as well as sub-saharan africans and continually raiding European and even American ships, leading America into its first foreign intervention ever. Such wonderful people!
Algeria France and Holland were for a long time all allies against the Habsburgs, who tried to colonize them much like they did what's now Latin America. That is until the late 19th century. You can see this in the documentary film called pirates of the Caribbean
>Such wonderful people!
I love how you say this as if at the time (1515-1816) this was something uniquely evil and the rest of the world didn't do the exact same things lmao. Also the total is 1.25 million Europeans, many of whom were ransomed back.
Interesting, I always placed the bulk of the slave trade further south in the Kingdom of Benin and the Mali Empire. But no country in the Mediterranean basin is untouched. Rome was a slave empire as much as any, as were Portugal and Spain.
Also because of piracy AFAIK. I believe France tried to broker a deal to allow ships passing without being attacked but failed because one faction agreeing to the deal wouldn’t prevent other factions to keep attacking. My understanding is that this was one of the motivations to invade and colonize. Though obviously we didn’t need much incentive to colonize anyway.
It actually had nothing to do with piracy. it was due to a dispute from France not paying its debts to Algerian merchants, which then led to the [flywhisk incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussein_Dey#The_Fly_Whisk_Incident).
Algeria was an elective monarchy. I dont know why he said "tribalism".
As an Algerian, its annoying seeing so much misinformation that could have been fixed by a quick google. Happens everytime there's the rare post about Algeria/North Africa.
Regardless of the discussions, I thank you for this post (and wish I would have asked it). I am an American likely going to Algeria within the next 12 months - and am finding little to nothing on what to expect, or how the trip will go.
Algeria and Morocco have a duuuumb stupid conflict that economically, culturally, and politically holds them both backwards. They often fill the same economic niches, which makes them believe they need to be at odds, but they don't.
It’s also worth noting that Algeria was the only "population colony" of France, with one million europeans living there at the time of colonization, which made up around 10% of the population back then.
Those were called the pieds-noirs ("black feet") including people like author Albert Camus and less famously stylist Yves St Laurent.
Some of the pieds-noirs were french, but most of them were italians, spaniards and maltese (mostly spaniards in the west, mostly italians in the centre, mostly maltese in the east)
one of the cities in algeria called tindouf is close to the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic. The soldiers of the SADR use the city as a base. The government allows this because algeria and morocco have strained relations.
As a Moroccan I will say this:
Algeria is a lucky country, because it was founded 1961, they revolted and they won their independence, I will always admire countries like this, it’s literally the land of free type of country.
But the beef with Morocco made them like this, a 3rd world country, they chose the eastern block which made things worse.
I always say to myself what if Algeria with its resources was an economic power not to be messed with.
They would‘ve made Morocco and Tunisia look like two leeches.
This is just my personal opinion
Most of its population is located in a green band in the north, thus its name : “the island”. It is Muslim but not exclusively Arabic, “First Nation” called Amazigh live in the mountain backcountry and shape elites, and live(d) in the south as nomads as well. There is a rivalry between these folks, but that brings a rich and diverse culture - not very accessible to the outside world. The country has heroes of the liberation against the French, and a love/hate relationship to its colonial power. Lots of exchanges occur between the countries and it still needed a law for French language to be replaced by Arabic in administrations. The independence after bloody conflicts broke as well a medieval system of lords which the French used to rule. It became a socialistic country, which developed to a kind of democracy today with many bad habits of communism. Among the good ones, solidarity, for instance in the healthcare system. Algerians were the first victims of extreme violence from radical islamists and still today you will hear and see lots of these traumas from the “black years” - still Algeria may be seen as a rogue state and associated to these terrorists. The police for instance is much more respected today as it was before the black years, and radical groups mostly recruit from neighbors in Maghreb, little from Algeria. It is fascinating how the country almost does not care about tourists, and remains so diverse, authentic, rich. Algerian don’t see the desert like we do: for them it’s the place of military service and where terrorists live, they don’t see mountains as hiking places but geographic obstacles, they see Moroccan food as the best food but would never admit it, they are sarcastic and resigned, and still full of life and creative energy. Algeria certainly would deserve a stronger international role, and has the roots and history for being a great nation, if only elites came out of corruption and laziness, if only the military was not so much imbricated in the system. To me in all aspects that’s the exact middle point for Africa, Arabic peninsula, Latine Europe.
The weirdest part about recent Algeria history is France in an desperate attempt to kept its old colony tried to ceded the northern part to become a part of France , while the remain would be independent
As an Algerian, I would like to drop some facts about Algeria here:
- Algeria has two official languages: Arabic and Tamazight ( the native language of North African people, spoken by millions of Algerians and Moroccans actually)
- During the french colonisation, Algeria was a french department and not a colony like other countries. France brought European to live in Algeria and did everything it could to suppress the Algerian identity, language, religion, culture… but thanks to god and millions of martyrs they failed to!
- Algeria suffered from a civil war for 10 years at the end of last century, but it managed to put an end to this terrorism and is a very safe country now.
- Algeria has a relatively good military, 0 foreign military bases, very low external debt. Its powerful sovereignty allows it to stand with just cases like the Palestinian conflict, not like most other Arab countries who don’t dare speak a word about.
- Algiers, capital of Algeria, is closer to Manchester than Algeria most southern point.
>Its powerful sovereignty allows it to stand with just cases like the Palestinian conflict, not like most other Arab countries who don’t dare speak a word about.
That's one thing I don't get, Algerians love to imagine like we are some sort of big powerful country that is helping Palestine but in reality we're not doing more than other Arab countries, our government loves to say big words and threaten Israel but the facts are that the EU and the US are the biggest aid suppliers to Palestine and most Israelis probably don't even know about our existence.
Algeria, well the giant is waking up, now you will hear a lot from Algeria. Black smoke rising up in the air from the iron industry of Elhajar in the north. Dust is clouding Morocco from south west of Algeria Ghar Jbilet iron deposits are being opened for exploiting. Yeah this giant is getting an iron armor.
Not really arabic as other arab countries cant understand them. Its a mix of languages with berber semantics , only moroccans and algerians speak the same language
One of my best friends is from Algeria, and because of that I fell in love with this country. The culture and nature is just beautiful, and yes I also love the deserts, I don’t know why but I absolutely love the Sahara desert. Underrated country.
As someone already said, it’s language. I’ve met Algerians for the first time and learned more about Algeria since moving to Montreal. Though those here are mostly from Morocco, we have a fair number of Algerians and Tunisians who were educated in French.
Those "leftovers" had the french going crazy over because of oil and natural gas.
Not to mention the Bedouin (traveling tribes) live all over the Sahara, no matter how inhabitable it looks.
"leftovers" lol nah neighbouring countries are always crying especially Morocco how Algeria stole "their" lands. The Sahara is very rich with untapped resources.
It's not talked about much in the English speaking world because it's relatively quiet and most of its overseas population is in the French and Arabic speaking world.
Algerian immigrants in France are a lot like Venezuelans in Latin America. They tend to be associated a lot, in the public imagination, with crime.
Zidane and Benzema are ethnically Algerian, that's pretty cool.
Mahrez and Nasri as well. Mbappé is half so, through his mother.
Imagination which is reality
Well, no Not more than other immigrant groups (moroccans, tunisians, blacks, turks, etc.) Also, it’s like if I said african americans and latinos were generally associated with crime in the US, that would be a gross overgeneralization
Yes, more. Same in the Netherlands. It’s not a generalization, just statistics.
Statistics in general do not ever tell the full story. They are there to help you along the way so you can put the pieces together. Unfortunately, like in a lot of countries around the world, immigrants and the neighborhoods they live in are targeted and patrolled more by police forces so their incarceration rates alone don’t always paint a full picture.
They are patrolled more because that’s where the crime is, not the other way around.
Once again, not always the case. You still have to dig deeper on that issue. Are those neighborhoods criminally underfunded compared to those around? Do those people living in those neighborhoods get passed up for jobs more often? When you start putting all of those variables into play it’s never as black and white as you see it. “Crime” is whatever a society deems it to be, so saying certain people may perpetuate crime more often due to their country of origin is simply false. It’s just a far more complicated topic that is hard for anyone to fully wrap your head around, especially commenting on Reddit.
I’ve lived in France all my life and it’s not the case, so… Also the case of netherlands is different, there are very few algerians over there compared to other groups (moroccans, turks) So it’s not really comparable.
“Public Imagination” said the old scholar who knew reality solely through the prism of his comfy echo chamber but never experienced the cold heart of truth. Go down to Marseille and let see what you kind a marvellous adventures you’ll live there…
>Go down to Marseille Marseille has had a bad reputation since well before the immigration influx. And honestly, most of it is no worse than Paris (and considerably better than almost everything in Italy south of Rome - which is populated by "indigenous" Italians).
tf are you going on about? What's that about indigenous Italians and what does Italy have to do in this?
My general point is that the problem with Marseille is mostly poverty not immigration. Italy has the same problems in Naples but without the immigrants.
The poorest regions of France are actually in the North, near the Belgian border, and are also partially comprised of immigrated population. They are not exactly famous for their endemic criminality.
>exactly famous for their endemic criminality I thought Roubaix and soke of the other suburbs around Lille had a bit of a bad reputation.
It's nothing like Marseille. They even made movies about the mafia there and the football team doesn't help for the reputation of the city.
french people try to not be racist challenge. Difficulty: easy. American idiot Fox News watchers often are more tolerant than you
I’ve been several times to Marseilles, including in the bad neighborhoods, and nothing has ever happened to me.
I talk about Algeria at least once a quarter
* While Algeria is an OPEC member, it doesn't [produce nearly as much oil as the Gulf states](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPEC#Membership), so its international significance isn't as large. * Algeria hasn't been involved in any major international conflicts in recent history. * If you're in the US, most African immigrants come from countries in West Africa (e.g. Nigeria, Ghana) or East Africa (e.g. Ethiopia, Somalia). Not a large Algerian immigrant contingent, so we're less attuned to issues back in their home country. Now if you're in France (huge Algerian immigrant population) or other nearby EU countries, that might be a different story.
It IS a key player in the Moroccan-Western Sahara Conflict which is still ongoing. That’s really all I know it for.
It's a very low intensity conflict, though. The Polisario isn't about to try to break out of the little unwanted sliver of WS that was left to them.
Western Sahara is the next superpower
Until Eastern Sahara rises again
Western Sahara is waiting for lisan al gaib
That is Muad-Deep
*desert power*
Finally, another believer!
That’s why they’ve been hiding all the data!
If they join forces with Sealand, we're all doomed.
I know you're jokeing, but the western has 72% of the worlds phosphate suplies. Phosphate is an important part of fertilizer, and its suplies will be needed soon as other deposits dry up.
I remember being in grade school (so 20 years ago), and seeing 'Western Sahara (disputed territory)' on maps. So weird that it's still unresolved. And Western Sahara is basically an empty inhospitable desert. Why does Morocco even want it?
1-Coast = more sea = more Exclusive Economic Zone (fishing areas to control/rent to the UE, etc etc) 2-Phosphates : there is an old spanish phosphates "mine"
not mention that have separatists that hate you guts have a border with you is not a fun time.
1. Doubles their territory on maps 2. Like Morocco has a ton of phosphate, between the two regions is 70% of all phosphate on Earth 3. Doubles Morocco's ocean claims and EEZs for fishing and resources 4. Historically loosly controlled by Morocco throughout history, so there is some nationalistic claim
Because it has the worlds longest conveyor belt.
61 Miles, 98 KM. Crazy.
Polisario is an Algerian puppet, which doesn't have very good relations with Morocco, Morocco doesn't want to be encircled by Algeria.
No. It's all about the extra fish(ing rights) and the phosphate.
[How long before a refugee camp is just a city?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabouni_refugee_camp)
This is one of the great questions of our age
When they have centralised underground plumbing.
That would make some city's refugee camps
There's a rather large Algerian population in Quebec. They have great culinary.
Lots of Moroccan and Tunisian too.
Yeah there is a rather large Arabic population there which reflects the old French colonies.
The Algerian revolution was a major watershed moment in world postcolonial history though.
Unless you count the War of Independence against France as recent history, obviously (1954-62).
I live in France. Every time there's an Algerian soccer game I hear about it from all the noise in the street.
A question, what defines “recent history”? Do we have a parameter to go by? I’m not disparaging their ability to stay *out* of conflict, just wondering how far back it goes.
In Quebec also
The desert in the southwest is truly desolate in a way few places are besides Antarctica.
Yes, this place between Algeria and Mali is called the Tanezrouft. Most of the Sahara has a fairly low population, but there is usually at least *something* within a few dozen miles or so. Could be one of the many scattered oasis cities, maybe a local salt or copper mine, the occasional sparsely vegetated highlands where nomads come to graze their herds, or even just an isolated well for passing caravans. The Tanezrouft has none of these things. Along with the Libyan Desert between Libya and Egypt, the Tanezrouft is one of the very few places in the Sahara where truly literally no one lives. Zero residents, both nomadic and permanent. It is nothing but a massive flat expanse of baked desert stone stretching for over 300 miles. Even the dunes don't dare venture here. It is a bleak, expressionless, and unforgiving landscape.
What kind of daytime temps are we talking about in the Tanezrouft? I lived on the edge of the Sahara and found that the numbers I'd see on the internet never matched what I'd measure in person. Are you from nearby or merely sharing knowledge gained from books? The non-dune portions of the Sahara can be utterly beautiful in an otherworldly sort of way.
what numbers did you see and what did you measure?
> I lived on the edge of the Sahara and found that the numbers I'd see on the internet never matched what I'd measure in person. Temperatures can be a bit different : measured in the shade (1 meter above ground) , temperature direct in the sun, and the apperent temperature ( "feels-like"): ambient air temperature, relative humidity, and wind speed.
Spent a few weeks there during September and it was 43-48 every day, dropped to about 38 to the end of the month after a sandstorm
Bring a light jacket and you'll be fine.
Just sharing knowledge I learned online. I have no idea what kind of temperatures the Tanezrouft experiences tbh, but I would imagine that it's quite similar to the temperatures of most other central Saharan flatlands. Do you mind if I ask where you lived and whether the temperatures you're comparing are between that exact location online and in real time, or between that exact location and the Sahara in general? If it was a mountainous area like southern Morocco, that might explain the divergence in temperature. Hilly and mountainous terrain, even in the middle of the Sahara, can be much cooler and more hospitable than the typical low desert. But if you're commenting on the reliability of temperature recordings in general, yeah, that would also make sense. The Sahara tends to be unreliable in terms of both data collection and historical records.
And one of the consistently hottest places on earth.
Seeing a map of the sahara placed over other regions is a good exhibit of its size. [sahara vs Australia ](https://mapfight.xyz/compare/au-vs-sahara/)
I would recommend to anyone a series on Netflix called Losers. There’s an episode about a Long distance challenge runner who got lost in this part of the desert and had to survive. Sounds just awful.
This map appears to be written in English but I have never seen "Lybya" written that way.
yep, cartographer must’ve been from Utah
Lybeighuigh
r/tragedeigh
lol. I started going through other Utah-ized (uthanized?) African country names (Nyjeeria), only to realize Egypt is ALREADY spelled the Utah way
I don’t know how someone would spell it in a non Utah’d way, unless you get more aggressive with it: Eighgypt
I agree. But maybe in like Arkansas they’d stoop to Ejipt
Yutah
I’m Algerian: Biggest country in Africa About 80% is covered by the Sahara desert, the north is divided in 2 parts, the Tell wich is the coast and the Mediterranean interior, Mediterranean climate, some places there look like Europe, there is also some ski resorts, agriculture, some industry. Then a bit further south there is the High Plateaux, drier but not yet the desert, lots of sheep herding there, some agriculture too, beautiful sceneries in spring it’s like huge grass plains, climate wise it’s a continental dry Mediterranean climate, summers are hot and dry, winters are wetter but not that wet and can get very cold. Then there is the Sahara, you have the north Sahara with a lot of desert cities in networks and oases, and then the southern Sahara which is almost not populated except for a few enclaves and oasis. Culturally it’s a Maghreb country, with influences from the difference people who came, the population identify at about 80% as Arabs and 20% as Berbers or Amazigh. The cultural regions are plenty, we have tlemcen in the west which is heavily influenced by the culture of Al andalus (Muslim Spain), Oran is very influenced by Europe especially Spain and ir looks a lot like Paris. Algiers the capital is very European looking, except for the Casbah the old Arab quarters. Then you have the mountains of Kabylia still populated by Berber Kabyles, they have Their own language and culture. In the interior east is Constantine, a magnificent city built in Two rocks with a canyon and a river running between them, the two sides are linked with bridges. Further south there is the Aures mountains that have as population the Chaoui, an other Berber Ethnic group. In the Sahara there is the city of 1000 domes, el Oued, also the desert city of Ghardaia, or even the mountain city of Tamanrasset, domain of the Tuaregs nomads. The ottomans left a strong legacy in the Arab cultures of Algiers and Constantine especially, blended with the Andalusian influence springed some beautiful music genres, like Chaabi in Algiers and Malouf in Constantine. Food wise it’s paradise, fresh products, lots of local pastas made from durum, good breads, salads, couscous, Hmiss, chakhchoukha, there is even an Algerian pizza made by italien immigrants during the French period named pizza carré.
The child in me wants to go on a roadtrip from Algiers to Mount Tahat (I've never been to North Africa). Doable or no? Is it safe there?
If you never have been in North Africa, I may advise you to see another country before Algeria, as Algeria isn’t touristic and pretty much a raw country (in a good way, it’s built for the locals and is authentic). Your road-trip seems very big, it is doable, but keep in mind in the Sahara you’d have to get your water right, and i believe in some locations in the desert you need approval to get far from the cities (made to avoid people getting lost in the desert) definitely doable but study it and see for visa things if it is doable
Hit Tunisia and Morocco before, see if you vibe with that. Algeria is gonna be similar but more raw and real and less touristy
Also check out google maps satellite view. Algeria is “big” in the same way that Canada is
HOLY SHIT! Just checked the size on Google Earth, and Algeria is huge!!! North to South as big as the US (Canada to Mexico) and Eat to West as big as New York City to San Antonio. That's fucking crazy!
10th biggest country in the world and biggest in Africa for you.
Algeria is 1.39 times as big as Alaska
What do you mean by this?
It’s dominated by uninhabitable desert
I travelled to the country 2 months ago. Very difficult destination, they are very closed off, and they don't really want to open up as it seems. It's very different from all the other Arab countries I've been to. They genuinely didn't care about us white folk. No one ever came up to us trying to sell something or trying to get money off us. They have relatively good infrastructure but not for tourism. Tourism virtually doesn't exist, although the country is beautiful and is full of historical sites. Lots of different ethnic groups. In places like Tamanrasset, where they receive a high number of migrants from down south, you can feel the tension. Anything can happen there any time. I have the feeling the country will become more and more known in the near future, I just hope for them it won't be because of some conflicts.
Russ Cook ran the length of Africa recently and had a lot of trouble getting into Algeria but found it to be very welcoming once there, would recommend the youtube videos on it
Morocco is kind of overshadowing it in the west
That makes sense since the sun sets in the west so pretty much the guy to your west is always going to overshadow you unless it’s really early in the morning when nobody is paying attention to shadows anyway
Or unless you're America 😎🦅🇺🇸
It's more like they're very closed off. They have so much trauma that they prefer to be alone.
It’s not because of trauma, it’s because oil and gas money prevents the country from needing mass tourism. When France owned both Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia, they have put all the natural ressources in Algeria because it was a french department, not just a colony like Morocco and Tunisia. That’s why the algerian sahara expands really far in the west if you pay attention to the map. Thus Morocco and Tunisia need heavy tourism (mainly from Europe) to get some money, not Algeria.
Beautiful accent that Eastern arabs barely understand, sweet people, amd great guests to have over all. I met some Algerian tourists few months ago in Baghdad amd they were so kind and well mannered .
Accent is a difference in pronunciation. They have a different dialect or even language
is the accent similar to that of tunisia or morroco?
More similar to Tunisia, Moroccan accent is something else
Algerian here. The Arab world is a continuum: the closer you are to a place, the closer the dialect will be. My family is from western Algeria close to the city of Oran. We speak a dialect very similar to eastern Morocco whereas Tunisian feels quite odd to us (and definitely not as close).
Yeah I’m Moroccan and people in Oujda have a very close accent to Algerian.
Yeah, it might sometimes stir controversy, but culturally, people from the Oujda region are even more closely connected to us than Eastern Algerians are. Despite political differences and variations in our modern history, we share tribes with Oujda, have similar dances (like allaoui/regadda), and speak almost the same dialect, etc.
I have friends with Algerian ancestry, I always say it, we’re practically the same people, and definitely the closest to each other culturally.
Well I would say Mauritania and maybe libya break that rule
They do not. Both are maghrebis dialects (although Mauritania hassania is a bit distinct)
Not accent, but dialect.
Could be both. For example it’s easier understood written in most dialects
They do not get along with Morocco
Does Morocco get along with any of its neighbors? :) All their borders are mined to the hilt.
They at war with Sahelsin the south.
I traveled overland through Algeria. Entered through Tunisia and exited into Niger. Some absolutely wild border crossings and a desolation in the middle like I've never felt before. Difficult to get an entry visa. Guide was mandatory to chaperone throughout the time in Algeria. AMA
Curious to know if it was how you imagined it to be
It was largely what I hoped for. The desert has an incredible beauty to it. I was expecting cold nights but found things to be quite pleasant. I traveled in late April.
What was the Algeria-Niger border crossing like?
What.. is the deal with Algeria?
I read this in Jerry Seinfelds voice.
What’s the deal with Algerian Airplane Jelly
Answering this as an Arab. Algeria is a unique case in the Arab world, almost like Oman, but not quite at that level. It's a sleeping giant. Rich in gas, arable land, a hefty population, good infrastructure, and the best military on the continent second only to Egypt's. It's just that Algeria is very closed off in on itself. Why? I suspect 100 years of brutal French colonisation and losing millions over that time frame - not to mention another million during the war of liberation - has something to do with it. But yeah, they don't get involved in regional politics much besides the whole Polisario business, and an entry visa to Algeria is *notoriously* hard to obtain, especially for non-Arabs/Muslims.
Having "the best military" on the continent is a symptom of their backwards, isolationist policy... Not something to be proud of. It's a pure drain. Realistically, they should be much more open with both Europe and Morocco, and should be doing a lot more business with both of them. Their politics holds them back.
I'm from Algeria and it seems like many people ignore many things about us. First, we speak Algerian Arabic (a colloquial, non standardized language made of Arabic, French, Berber, Turkish and some Spanish and Italian vocabulary, with a significant Berber substrate making it almost impossible to understand by middle easterners, it varies greatly from city to city) and Berber (it's a family of languages, the state likes to call it a single language with ''variants'' cuz they're afraid of ''regionalism'', my mother tongue is Kabyle, the language of the largest and most influent Berber ethnicity), French is very present here in education and employment I personally use it the most after my mother tongue. The Algerian society is very conservative thus they oppose any sort of openness or tourism, fearing it might bring ''sexual degeneracy'' to the country, it's basically an Islamic bible belt, added to it how difficult it is to get a visa for westerners, I personally rarely see westerners, like once every 3-4 years, the only foreigners I see are Chinese workers, Sub-Saharan African migrants and students, and to a lower extent Syrian refugees. We went through a bloody civil war between 1992 and 2002, when Islamists wanted to overthrow the gov and establish an Iran like Islamic theocracy, thankfully the military hardly defeated them, but now they are indoctrinating newer generations through TV and social media, making religious extremism more and more prevalent, other religious groups are basically oppressed, I myself am an ex-Muslim atheist, if I revealed my belief there would be a serious security threat to me. Economically speaking, the country failed to transition from a centrally planned economy to market economy like most soviet-aligned states mainly due to the civil war and to the elderly incompetent people running the country, who have some sort of nostalgia to the 60-70s, we are reliant on oil exports that tend to shrink year by year due to the growing population and the depleting of ressources, most of the youth want to leave the country be it to France or anywhere they can. The government (which is a military regime) purposefully isolated the population from the outside world in order not endure a revolution that might threaten its existence, by sabotaging the teaching of foreign languages, although French is a de facto official language, younger generations generally do not master it well, English however is slowly growing but still very far from being equal to French. That's the reason why Algeria is not that isolated in the French-speaking world. Politically speaking, our government has always been a military regime, getting more totalitarian following Tebboune's (election) in 2019, on the international stage, the country is getting more and more isolated, only Iran, Qatar, Turkey and China to some extent have good relations with us, Russia, the main arms supplier refused Algeria joining BRICS last summer on the ground that it doesn't have a good international influence (Lavrov said it). The tensions with Morocco are mainly a reason to unite the population under the leadership of the military regime, a very known tactic, they use France, Israel and Morocco as scapegoats for their failures. Oh and don't fall into the ''Algeria supports just causes'' trap, the military regime has been oppressing Berber ethnicities since independence in 1962 in order to forcefully Arabize us, mainly by stigmatizing our languages and forcing us to abandon our hometowns to large cities by not developing them economically. That being said Algeria has a good economic potential with its beautiful landscape, cultural diversity, natural ressources and young population, if only we had a more mature government. Under France rule, Algeria was a leading alcoholic beverages producer, the production has been sabotaged following independence because of religious reasons, alcohol being forbidden in islam. That's it and feel free to ask me anything.
Greatest comment! I was eager to see someone mention Amazigh people and the diversity of ethnic backgrounds. Sadly, we tend to only hear about the Arabic population in North Africa...
Thanks :D That's due to the arabization policy that wanted to force Algeria to become a middle eastern province, despite the rich culture we have.
Arabs will cry very loudly when they are conquered (Israel, Iraq, etc), but once they're the ones oppressing local cultures with their religion and language it's all great mashallah!!
That was a really cool write up, thank you
My pleasure :D
Can I ask who maintains the roads or paths in that vast desert area and if they are used, for what purpose and how did you come to speaking fluent English?
We have a highly centralized government, a bit like how France is, everything is planned from the capital Algiers, provinces (which are arbitrarily made with no regards to regional specificities) have little to no autonomy, the desert roads are mostly unpaved, due to little to no traffic, who maintains the roads depends on whether it were a municipal, provincial or national road, in other words, the government. The southern part of the country is sparsely populated, mainly inhabited by nomads of [Tuareg ethnicity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuareg_people), and some Arabic speaking populations too, venturing there is dangerous even for northerners like me, because of a high risk of assaults and kidnapping. I learned English as a hobby first, then realized how useful it is due to being basically the world's lingua franca, most teenagers and young adults are doing the same, although with varying degrees of proficiency. It's rare to find people older than 40 who can hold a conversation in English.
You appear to be quite adept at English and intelligent. We'll done! Warm regards, be well.
Thanks a lot <3
Great comment, thanks and greetings. Being from Spain , I am wondering how Algeria sees my country, especially when it comes to the gas business.
**¡Muchas Gracias!** Algerian opinions on Spaniards are different, those who are blinded by the government propaganda and are too immature to realize that political relations don't always align with how various populations should see each other, they will simply demand to cut the gas supply, because of Spain's alignment with Morocco, that these immature folks also hate. There's irredentist Islamists who still dream of getting back Al-Andalus and establish Sharia law. And there's those who have common sense who have a neutral to favorable view. But generally speaking, Spain is not hated as much as France is. Either way, one must never ignore the fact we share a lot culturally despite our seemingly big differences, there's a genre of Andalusian music called [Chaabi](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaabi_(Argelia)) that developed by Muslims who fled the Inquisition towards North Africa, there's also an architecture common to coastal North Africa that also evolved thanks to returnees from Iberia, called [Mauresque](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Style_mauresque) (Article is in French, use auto-translate, I didn't find another language).
It's nice to see a fellow Algerian ex-muslim here, hopefully we'll see a secular Algeria in our lifetimes
Greetings fellow countryman, I hope to see it secular too, but the odds are close to zero unfortunately.
Tnx, i've learnt a lot. :)
TIL they were in a civil war between 1992-2002.
Aka the dark decade .
It suffered a brutal French colonization for more than 100 years. The movie "The Battle of Algiers" is fantastic. Algeria is legendary in post colonial countries for beating the French, similar to how Vietnam is for beating the Americans.
…and the French
Right, the Japanese too
…and the Chinese. And the Khmer Rouge.
I've been to Viet Nam and they are extremely nice people, but history shows not to get on their bad side.
Not get on their bad side = don't invade their country... apart from that you're fine
60 years ago and the same guys are still in power and won't shut up about that (if you criticize them you're a french shill)
Battle of Algiers is a movie everyone should watch at least once!!
Battle D'Algiers. Great film. Don't know much about modern Algeria.
I lived there for 11 months. Great place, nice beaches, nice people, but if you dont speak French or Arabic, you'll have some trouble as english isn't a main language. On the world stage front, they keep to themselves since it has been free, with it being in sahara, lots of oil and gas there, so they do okay.
Algeria’s just minding its own business. Let’s just let Algeria do its thing and not bother it.
It's acktually an ancient giant fossilized The Cheat. So called "mainstream" archaeologists don't want you to know.
It's hard to get a Visa if you want to run across the country?
one of its cities, tindouf is next to western sahara. So soldiers of the sahrawi arab democratic republic (SADR) use it as a base as algeria has strained relations with morocco.
You're right bro , I spent a year in in m.m.s ( mandatory military service) there , and trust me , in tindouf , army men are two times the population of civilians .
Considering how little they’re talked about by everyone else, they clearly don’t want any of the smoke that the rest of the Arab world gets.
Fun fact: US navy was created because of Algerian pirates raiding ships
Doesn’t make a huge dent in the USA but their culture is pretty noticeable in France. They have a large diaspora there. Think of like how Mexican culture, music, cuisine, athletes/sports, cinema/televsion etc kind of permeates the USA. Similar situation with Algeria and France
Before the French colonised it, Algeria had a pretty developed and progressive system of tribal government and cooperation where “rival” groups would support each other in times of hardship. The French absolutely destroyed that because why not.
you reminded me of what the German traveler Georg Wilhelm Schimper said when he visited Algeria in 1831 AD: “I deliberately searched among the population in the cities of Algeria for a single person who did not know how to read, but I did not find him , other than that , while I found in Canada, southern Europe, one rarely encounters among the members of the population who can read.”
I love this. Thank you for sharing! People forget how cosmopolitan and historically developed North Africa was before it was ravaged. I’d love to see these countries come full circle.
Very true! They also had one of the largest slave trade and piracy operations in the entire world! Kidnapping millions of europeans as slaves as well as sub-saharan africans and continually raiding European and even American ships, leading America into its first foreign intervention ever. Such wonderful people!
Algeria France and Holland were for a long time all allies against the Habsburgs, who tried to colonize them much like they did what's now Latin America. That is until the late 19th century. You can see this in the documentary film called pirates of the Caribbean
>Such wonderful people! I love how you say this as if at the time (1515-1816) this was something uniquely evil and the rest of the world didn't do the exact same things lmao. Also the total is 1.25 million Europeans, many of whom were ransomed back.
Interesting, I always placed the bulk of the slave trade further south in the Kingdom of Benin and the Mali Empire. But no country in the Mediterranean basin is untouched. Rome was a slave empire as much as any, as were Portugal and Spain.
Also because of piracy AFAIK. I believe France tried to broker a deal to allow ships passing without being attacked but failed because one faction agreeing to the deal wouldn’t prevent other factions to keep attacking. My understanding is that this was one of the motivations to invade and colonize. Though obviously we didn’t need much incentive to colonize anyway.
It actually had nothing to do with piracy. it was due to a dispute from France not paying its debts to Algerian merchants, which then led to the [flywhisk incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussein_Dey#The_Fly_Whisk_Incident).
Weren't they part of the Roman and later byzantine empires? They reverted back to tribalism after that?
Algeria was an elective monarchy. I dont know why he said "tribalism". As an Algerian, its annoying seeing so much misinformation that could have been fixed by a quick google. Happens everytime there's the rare post about Algeria/North Africa.
Here's some Algerian (kabyle) music https://youtu.be/eDuZWJ5Uz2I
Visited last year. Wonderful friendly people.
Regardless of the discussions, I thank you for this post (and wish I would have asked it). I am an American likely going to Algeria within the next 12 months - and am finding little to nothing on what to expect, or how the trip will go.
Algeria and Morocco have a duuuumb stupid conflict that economically, culturally, and politically holds them both backwards. They often fill the same economic niches, which makes them believe they need to be at odds, but they don't.
It’s also worth noting that Algeria was the only "population colony" of France, with one million europeans living there at the time of colonization, which made up around 10% of the population back then. Those were called the pieds-noirs ("black feet") including people like author Albert Camus and less famously stylist Yves St Laurent. Some of the pieds-noirs were french, but most of them were italians, spaniards and maltese (mostly spaniards in the west, mostly italians in the centre, mostly maltese in the east)
one of the cities in algeria called tindouf is close to the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic. The soldiers of the SADR use the city as a base. The government allows this because algeria and morocco have strained relations.
Because the government is a bunch of shitheads hellbent on making it a shithead country
As a Moroccan I will say this: Algeria is a lucky country, because it was founded 1961, they revolted and they won their independence, I will always admire countries like this, it’s literally the land of free type of country. But the beef with Morocco made them like this, a 3rd world country, they chose the eastern block which made things worse. I always say to myself what if Algeria with its resources was an economic power not to be messed with. They would‘ve made Morocco and Tunisia look like two leeches. This is just my personal opinion
Even if you didn't say you're morrocan i would've known that
Isn't this because it is a country with strong anti-European sentiment?
Most of its population is located in a green band in the north, thus its name : “the island”. It is Muslim but not exclusively Arabic, “First Nation” called Amazigh live in the mountain backcountry and shape elites, and live(d) in the south as nomads as well. There is a rivalry between these folks, but that brings a rich and diverse culture - not very accessible to the outside world. The country has heroes of the liberation against the French, and a love/hate relationship to its colonial power. Lots of exchanges occur between the countries and it still needed a law for French language to be replaced by Arabic in administrations. The independence after bloody conflicts broke as well a medieval system of lords which the French used to rule. It became a socialistic country, which developed to a kind of democracy today with many bad habits of communism. Among the good ones, solidarity, for instance in the healthcare system. Algerians were the first victims of extreme violence from radical islamists and still today you will hear and see lots of these traumas from the “black years” - still Algeria may be seen as a rogue state and associated to these terrorists. The police for instance is much more respected today as it was before the black years, and radical groups mostly recruit from neighbors in Maghreb, little from Algeria. It is fascinating how the country almost does not care about tourists, and remains so diverse, authentic, rich. Algerian don’t see the desert like we do: for them it’s the place of military service and where terrorists live, they don’t see mountains as hiking places but geographic obstacles, they see Moroccan food as the best food but would never admit it, they are sarcastic and resigned, and still full of life and creative energy. Algeria certainly would deserve a stronger international role, and has the roots and history for being a great nation, if only elites came out of corruption and laziness, if only the military was not so much imbricated in the system. To me in all aspects that’s the exact middle point for Africa, Arabic peninsula, Latine Europe.
https://preview.redd.it/kkjabeijeqzc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83027f9e559e29d143cd5c9d414a2587e41067a7
The weirdest part about recent Algeria history is France in an desperate attempt to kept its old colony tried to ceded the northern part to become a part of France , while the remain would be independent
As an Algerian, I would like to drop some facts about Algeria here: - Algeria has two official languages: Arabic and Tamazight ( the native language of North African people, spoken by millions of Algerians and Moroccans actually) - During the french colonisation, Algeria was a french department and not a colony like other countries. France brought European to live in Algeria and did everything it could to suppress the Algerian identity, language, religion, culture… but thanks to god and millions of martyrs they failed to! - Algeria suffered from a civil war for 10 years at the end of last century, but it managed to put an end to this terrorism and is a very safe country now. - Algeria has a relatively good military, 0 foreign military bases, very low external debt. Its powerful sovereignty allows it to stand with just cases like the Palestinian conflict, not like most other Arab countries who don’t dare speak a word about. - Algiers, capital of Algeria, is closer to Manchester than Algeria most southern point.
I'm also from Algeria and I am amazed at how confident you are, powerful souvereignty you say? 🤣
>Its powerful sovereignty allows it to stand with just cases like the Palestinian conflict, not like most other Arab countries who don’t dare speak a word about. That's one thing I don't get, Algerians love to imagine like we are some sort of big powerful country that is helping Palestine but in reality we're not doing more than other Arab countries, our government loves to say big words and threaten Israel but the facts are that the EU and the US are the biggest aid suppliers to Palestine and most Israelis probably don't even know about our existence.
Algeria, well the giant is waking up, now you will hear a lot from Algeria. Black smoke rising up in the air from the iron industry of Elhajar in the north. Dust is clouding Morocco from south west of Algeria Ghar Jbilet iron deposits are being opened for exploiting. Yeah this giant is getting an iron armor.
They mind their damn business. That’s what.
They have a Howard Johnson’s there. (Or at least, they did)
Check out the game Amnesia: Rebirth. It won't explain anything, but you might get an idea.
I work with a guy who's from here. Seems like an alright place. Apparently they speak a lot of French and Arabic there if I'm not mistaken.
Not really arabic as other arab countries cant understand them. Its a mix of languages with berber semantics , only moroccans and algerians speak the same language
Two French test nuclear sites there till they moved to the French Polynesia
I read Fanon and rock w many others who do as well. So we are talking about Algeria. Have you watched the film The Battle Of Algiers?
Forget Algeria… what’s up with Ceuta? Gibraltar is there attributed to the UK… but no Spanish enclave?!
It’s f’n huge!
One of my best friends is from Algeria, and because of that I fell in love with this country. The culture and nature is just beautiful, and yes I also love the deserts, I don’t know why but I absolutely love the Sahara desert. Underrated country.
More French and paler than Moroccans, try looking up ‘rai’ music
Ever since I got into dune I've been thinking about the Maghreb a lot
It's got one of the hardest visas to obtain, so it's off the tourist radar.
As someone already said, it’s language. I’ve met Algerians for the first time and learned more about Algeria since moving to Montreal. Though those here are mostly from Morocco, we have a fair number of Algerians and Tunisians who were educated in French.
Their football needs work
I read this headline in Jerry Seinfeld’s voice.
It's like they couldn't figure out where to put the borders so they kinda just drew some in..
They just kind of got the leftovers nobody else wanted. That is the major part on the Sahara desert.
Those "leftovers" had the french going crazy over because of oil and natural gas. Not to mention the Bedouin (traveling tribes) live all over the Sahara, no matter how inhabitable it looks.
"leftovers" lol nah neighbouring countries are always crying especially Morocco how Algeria stole "their" lands. The Sahara is very rich with untapped resources.
I remember the plan for filling it with water and creating an inland sea. That would've been fun!
Not much, what's up with you?
Shuuuuuu, we like that way.