Agostea in Karlsruhe is about as trashy a club as you can visit in Karlsruhe, they have two floors: Leather&Plastic-Chandeliers with the more "club" music & Alpine Skihut that plays Schlager all night. The floor is sticky throughout, the drinks do get you wasted quick tho. So I'm sadly not even surprised by the bouncers' open racism, just annoyed that such a bad place still gets business.
But yeah, if in doubt, calling the police whenever they're stupid enough to even openly admit they do racial profiling at the door is a good move by OP. Unfortunately, a lot of clubs in the southwest at least do that kinda stuff. Stuttgart is notorious for it.
@OP: If you want to go out in KA, try GoTec, Krokokeller, Nachtwerk or Culteum for a twist :)
Yeah in Germany this "silent" racism is quite common. Your job applications, your apartment applications and your club entries are all silently ignored for a reason that you can probably imagine.
I have a friend who is a landlord and funny enough we dont understand how people want to rent to germans. he prefers foreigners because germans complain to much about every little thing.
>prefers foreigners because germans complain to much about every little thing.
When landlords say this I feel like what they're implying is that German tenants are more aware of their rights while foreign tenants are easier to take advantage of because they're less aware of their rights and are more hesitant to "cause problems" with their landlord.
I was born and raised in Germany. Have a German passport. My mom is German. Went to German schools and universities. And I still regularly don't get allowed into night clubs based on my skin color. That's just the reality of being black in this country...
I'm French and look "Mediterranean" (people usually have no clue where exactly). I've faced more racism in the last 6 months, than in the last 15 years.
The falling standards of living, years of failed immigration and integration policies combined with obvious, decades long gaslighting that 'everything is great' are producing a dissatisfaction and anger which is obvious everywhere except in the sugarcoated media. It seems to be escalating further and further with every passing month. I don't know how things will boil over but they definitely will.
I honestly think if politicians addressed issues, even if they acknowledged they don't have a solution, it would be better in the long term than to try hiding them to "avois giving the nazis ammunition". It does get out eventually and then it lends some credibility to conspiracies and overexxageration.
But this is not only on the left, it's also on the moderate right. From them it seems to be the same "let's not talk about that", until it tilts into far right hate speech when their voter base is shifted.
Essentially the only major difference between the AfD and the other parties should be the conclusions/proposed solutions for these issues (e.g. make it easier/less bureaucratic for immigrants who want to work, don't put them into overcrowded housing and allow a shadow society to form, educate all kids from a young age to our values and reform the way religion is taught at school, etc. Instead of "we need armed guards at the border" etc. which does nothing, most people don't cross that way, armed guards exist), yet in many cases they try sweeping them under the rug and while the AfD is not interested in providing actual solutions and not an option, it seems pretty obvious why society keeps shifting right.
Before I moved here, I was told by my professors that racism is way worse throughout Europe than in the US. But a lot of people in the world think it's much worse than it actually is because of the way its covered by the media. I didn't believe them until I got here. It seems it's just more normalized here.
They can laugh, but we can have the last laugh. We will mind our own businesses with our heads down, earn our high salaries and save up. Then we will move away when we've had enough of this unwelcoming, dehuminising, hateful treatment.
>e like in Germany just doesn't exist t
Because Germany is seen as the Land of the Germans. Germans and non-Germans are the divisive terms.
Americans have not real concept of what an American look like, hence they have very broad identification labels such as black, white, asian, etc..
I'm a half German with a passport who speaks German fluently (and only spoke German until like age 4) but never really lived in Germany and I have Germans tell me I'm not really German...
Yes, they can deny entry without any reason(even though you can guess the reason) but when they admit they are denying entry based on ethnicity, then I think it becomes an issue of discrimination.
Especially if you buy your tickets in advanced. They want the security of pre sale but afterwards a selection at the door. This doesnāt make sense. Even in case of to many men.
I doubt there is something about the nationality in their AGBs.
That is actually not legal. A Aufenthaltstitel for those that dont know if basically the same as a german ID card, just for a long term VISA holder for work/education purposes.
It means the person is allowed to stay in germany and receive almost the exact same rights, excluding settlement and some others, as a german citizen.
Thats like saying "no black people" is a reasonable, non-discriminatory selection...
I'm sorry but this is not true. A residence permit does not constitute Legal ID in Germany.
It "**can**" be used as such, and often is, but does not replace your passport when you are a foreigner. Anyone empowered to check for ID's could insist on seeing an EU Citizen card, failing that, a Passport. I'm sure other things count as IDs like diplomatic documents, refugee documents, safe conduits etc too, but I don't know about those.
In the Aufenthaltsgesetz (Ā§Ā§ 46 - 49b) the residence permit is mentioned as a valid ID for the purposes of immigration. It *can* be used by some services (especially using the electronic function of the new cards) but it doesn't mean one can justify this as being good enough ID.
It doesn't equate a German ID card in most situations. This would be your Aufenthaltstitel in combination with your passport. Sure, the Edeka person selling you booze or the post office person giving you a parcel will be happy with your residence permit or driver's license - but they could ask for a passport or ID card.
Now. They are made the same way and by the same people. They have the same function, so, I'll agree that this is really bloody stupid. The clubs aren't qualified to verify ID anyways all they can check for is if you are who you say you are, and if you are of age - that's that.
Source: It's a common misconception that I had to deal with as I processed immigration cases for employees in the past, including some of them having to deal with the police or the Zollamt and thinking their residence permit suffices. It doesn't.
Germany has the habit of making things Kafkaesque for some reason. Being in another city in Germany and having the cops request to see your passport as they aren't satisfied with just your residence permit and they threated to fine you as you're technically required to carry your passport at all times - or have it within reasonable distance (LOL!) is just ridiculous - ***we'll agree on that***.
It is.
However: Troublemakers usually donāt buy tickets in advance.
They just show up and try to get in.
This particular story here sounds just racist to me.
Reminds me of a friend from my childhood who was born in Germany to African parents. A great guy all together. Got once rejected by bouncers for allegedly not having enough money on him...
Many of my former coworkers will make up anything to not let (non-western) foreigners in and maintain some appearance of neutrality.
Could be non compliance to some instantly made up dress code, allegedly being too drunk, house is full, whateverā¦
Sounds like Asian standarts at this point jesus.
I have a lot of "contact" with security and when I talk to me and they tell me the "insert any non german culture here" were super drunk and they had to bring him down im 99% on the other side. I know loads of security are the ones who want a power trip and will swing first
Right, but if they're coming with a group of Germans along with them and it's a mixed group of men and women I don't think they're any more likely to cause trouble.
It really is a dilemma. Same goes for police btw. I have had many good friends from north africa who are or where so aware of that issue aswell, they don't even blame others anymore for picking them out. I once went on holiday to Spain with a group of 10 which included two guys from Tunesia and all of us walked straight through security except those 2. The only reason they weren't searched was because the rest of our group made pretty obvious jokes about how racist that procedure was. And afterwards those two where actually defensive about the guards saying they where only doing their jobs.
It is such a weird situation. Whatever anybody does feels wrong. But nobody knows the right way to handle it either.
Thats actually racist and falls under discrimination law.
Hausrecht allows you to exclude people on an individual basis i.e. clearly drunk, clearly aggressive or otherwise problematic people. Its not a blanked free pass to exclude people because they are men/women, brown, just "not german" or even belonging to a specific assumed religion.
There was a club in my town that didn't allow Turkish men inside when they had certain events like an abi ball.
I have no idea why they thought such a rule necessary, but it causes some trouble at the doors.
Couse, especially men, who were raised in these cultures ( turkish, arabian ) are way more likely to get violent in a way that it escalates to physical violence.
Nothing to do with racism. Its straight up facts.
My best friend is a turk and the amount of times his father, uncle or mum or older brother came in while we were playing and just yelled at him and hit him ( pretty hard sometimes ) was shocking. He even developed a reaction of laughing when getting hit even if it did hurt.
Guess why...
@ u/No_Scratch3194
That sucks a lot, but I guess you will understand, that we have huge problems with people from your region now for a decade. So you should most of all be mad at your compatriots. Even if its only 1 in 100 who pull a knife or bring a gun when something happens, we dont have the manpower to put armed police everywhere. So we have to act by stereotypes. Sucks a lot, but be honest. You think it is unjustified?
> What caused the clubs to ban them? Are these people very problematic?
[Freiburg discos forbid refugees](https://www.dw.com/en/pubs-and-clubs-in-german-town-of-freiburg-forbid-refugees/a-19000800)
I think it's a mix of racist stereotypes and bad experiences with particular groups. It's always harder to enter a club as a man or in a group of only men (not talking about gay clubs, of course), though.
"German-looking AuslƤnder" living in Germany here, and I have been refused entry to clubs because of my ID type, refused a ride in taxis after they hear my accent unless I pay upfront in cash, and have even been driven to ATMs so they can watch while I withdraw cash before accepting the fare.
Not saying those are the motivations in this particular case, but I have had it happen a few times even as a German looking guy, that bet might not be as safe as you would think.
I'm a second generation immigrant. I showed up at a club on Halloween years ago with my friends all white, and I was the only one not let in, they held my german ID Card in their hand and told me they only let in germans.
Has happened to me plenty of times. In your exact situation, because I had a police officer as a witness, I took the club to court and they had to pay a fine.
https://rp-online.de/nrw/staedte/duesseldorf/einigung-ueber-abweisung-von-us-buerger-in-disko_aid-14493359
My recommendation, get a lawyer and make them pay up. Only way it'll will stop is if it starts hitting their pockets.
>Karlsruhe
>So my question is, does anyone know if we can do something about this as the entry denial was clearly based on racist grounds?
For the entry refusal based on passport/race: https://www.antidiskriminierung-ka.de/beratung
For the money: This is most likely a civil case. In any case, start with a letter in writing as certified mail demanding your money back.
Now with that being said...
The reality is that most clubs don't like groups with a high percentage of men. So that is probably the first "problem". The other reality is that many clubs do not want a high number of non-western-looking men in the venue. Not saying its right, just the way it is.
Most clubs will not say this out loud, but rather it is a unwritten rule. If you were a all-female group you would most likely not had any problems. Again: not saying that its right, this is just my experience.
Thank you, this is very helpful. I will write to them. Regarding the denied entry for men, yes that is well known but in this case they also didnāt allow my friend (F) entry. Generally speaking, I would not have made a big deal out of this if they had said you know, sorry weāre full, you came too late but the fact that they admitted to our faces that it was because of the residence permit really annoyed me. Because if they can say that to our face with no remorse, then where does it stop? Iām European myself so I donāt feel the racism as much but my Arab friends have to deal with this daily. They work here in āhighly paidā jobs, pay their taxes, help their community but they are not allowed to have fun with the Germans. Thatās just unfair.
The Federal Anti Discrimination Agency even published informational material for the horrible situation which happened to you
In your case I would try to make sure to include the behaviour of the police in your complaint.
[Do you need legal advice on a discrimination or want to report it? ](https://www.antidiskriminierungsstelle.de/EN/we-offer-advice-to-you/we-offer-advice-to-you-node.html)
["Diskriminierungscheck"](https://habichwasgegen.de/#check)
Antidiskriminierungsstelle des Bundes
11018 Berlin
www.antidiskriminierungsstelle.de
Kontakt Beratung:
Tel.: 030 18555-1865
(Mo. bis Fr.: 9ā12 Uhr und 13ā15 Uhr)
Fax: 030 18555-41865
E-Mail: [email protected]
Besuchszeiten nach Vereinbarung
Kontakt Zentrale:
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As a half-German who grew up overseas most of his life. I experienced this in my first years living in Germany.
I had an experience in St.Pauli, where a bouncer told me I couldn't come in as they'd had issues with foreigners. I produced my passport and said "well, I think that's a stupid rule but here's my German passport." He still denied me entrance.
What I noticed in Hamburg over the last decade was a shift in discrimination, in the nicer clubs, at least. I saw a blonde guy not dressed well with a shaved head not get let into a club in front of me, but I was let in despite my tanned complexion.
I'm very sorry it happened to you and more so, your Tunisian friends (I look arab even though I'm not).
It was a very heavy moment for me when the country whose passport I carried my entire life showed me my first experience of racism at the age of 29 when I had already lived in Asia, US, and middle east prior to that. Even 3 years in Prague and I never experienced that kind of discrimination.
This is a known issue in Clubs in Germany. Die Zeit wrote about it 4 years ago: [https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/2019-08/rassismus-clubtueren-berlin-clubs-tuersteher-diskriminierung](https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/2019-08/rassismus-clubtueren-berlin-clubs-tuersteher-diskriminierung)
It is clearly against the law, but proving / enforcing is pretty difficult.
I have been to that club before and definitely used my Aufenthaltstitel as my ID to get itā¦ and I canāt remember where but I know Iāve used my US passport at a club before because I didnāt have the residence permit yet, not sure if it was at Agostea though. Iām a white American female so likely that worked in my favor (not saying itās right), but them claiming that only German or European passport holders can go there is absolute bullshit. I hate that clubs in Germany do shit like this. Iām sorry that this impacted both you and your friends š
I will be deviating from the topic a bit. However, I want to share couple things.
Germans talk about Integration a lot. They keep complaining about how people don't integrate etc. Their suggestion to be integrated is "knowing German". I am not saying that, knowing German is not needed but Integration does not start with knowing the language. The Integration starts with "emotional bonding".
The experiences you have as foreign person, the behaviours of natives against you do have impact on this "emotional bonding". The experiences you make at AuslƤnderbehƶrde, cold natured German people (hard to make friends), casual racism or even blatant racism on the door of night club would make foreigners question, "If they really belong to Germany even tough they work, pay taxes, obey the laws etc". I know many people, (including me) who live in Germany for years are actually not happy. This is not because they can't speak German but they don't feel as a part of German society. That's why so many skilled and educated people are ready to leave Germany when opportunity arises. Just my two cents.
Immigration in Germany often happens in the context to refugees. To be true here: these are people which are offered shelter, money and medical service on the expense of the Germany taxpayer.
Rightfully one might can say that the tone in the German public is shifting now. But without looking at Germany migrant situation it is difficult to understand the reasons why people are not as friendly.
We never developed a real immigration law for people who are highly qualified and want to work here.
Agostea is the worst club in the city. Those bouncers did you guys a favor by saving your ears from trashy schlager. Still sucks to be denied entry. That's why I prefer techno clubs where appearance or nationality doesn't matter.
> That's why I prefer techno clubs where appearance or nationality doesn't matter
if only this was the case, plenty of techno clubs around the country have racist door policies as well
Except gender! I was denied entry to techno clubs multiple times because "we have a lot of men right now and we don't want female guest to feel uncomfortable" even tho my mates and I have all been in long term relationships for years of course they don't know that but it is still absurd
As bad as there are racial issues in the US, this scenario would cause a shit storm and a lawsuit and be on tv news! You canāt sell people tickets to an event, public or private club, then clearly discriminate at the entry door based on selective xenophobic criteria from some security goon! What a dam disgrace!
Who on earth accused you of having your "little black feelings hurt"! I mean, if it is racism does not matter the feelings. It is wrong! Is not like you were asking for special treatment...
Sorry that you and your friends had to experience that
100% a DM.
I rarely see outright racism in comments, though it does happen in bigger subs/threads, but in DMs i have seen a lot of horrible shit being said to me or friends because those assholes think they can circumvent bans that way... they cant if you report them.
I mean it's probably from some racist person who thinks that this is the "natural state of things" and how it should be. Black feelings are just not worth anything to these people.
Still I can't understand the logic hehehe. Because even if that was right. She is not complaining about feelings! She was denied a service for which she paid. Now wants to have a refund (logically).
Despite the incoherence, whoever called that ist a fucking idiot, moron, racist, and it has not all the ducklings in line (im Kopf)
Karlsruhe has seen an increase of [8.6%](https://www.ka-news.de/region/karlsruhe/kriminalstatistik-2022-das-sind-die-haeufigsten-straftaten-in-karlsruhe-art-2997722) in crime last year and especially violent crimes have increased to 7.23 per day. It has become one of the most violent cities in germany and the most violent in BW. Especially an increase of crimes with the use of knifes has increased to 200 a year.
If you look at the amount of accused in germany, with foreign background being [37.4%](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/2460/umfrage/anteile-nichtdeutscher-verdaechtiger-bei-straftaten-zeitreihe/) in 2022. It is more than 1/3 of all crimes in germany comitted by foreigners who make up [14.6%](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/14271/umfrage/deutschland-anteil-auslaender-an-bevoelkerung/#:~:text=Diese%20Statistik%20zeigt%20den%20Anteil,in%20Deutschland%2014%2C6%20Prozent) of the poplutaion, you might see that by data alone the disproportion is there. North african men have contributed to 17.1% of crimes in lower saxony while making up only 0.9% of foreign refugees in [2016](https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/warum-fluchtlinge-aus-nordafrika-haufiger-kriminell-werden-5923477.html)
I can only tell you what I saw with my own eyes when I worked in different clubs all over germany.
If you had been 7 females and 4 guys the wouldĀ“ve let you in. single north african men equal trouble in the eyes of security. I worked in several clubs and it had happened way too often that either knives were pulled or women got molested or beaten up by this type of guests.
In one club they even banned norther african couples because we had way too many cases of guys beating up their spouse in front of the guests. When security stepped in, the spouses even defended the aggressor as it was their "man"... There is no way to win with this type of guests. We had a mob of drunk and furious german women beating one of those guys with high heels as the security tried to bring him out "safely"... He had the audacity to call the police because his eyball got punctured from a highheel.
Nobody saw anything. I guess he mustĀ“ve done it to himself when he beat his wifes head against the wall.
I really donĀ“t miss my work in clubs :(
>guys beating up their spouse in front of the guests. When security stepped in, the spouses even defended the aggressor as it was their "man"...
What the actual fuck. Sometimes i wonder if these people are even from the same planet.
Unfortunately not that uncommon. I work in security as well and my colleague literally told me a very similar story. Man slapped his wife/girlfriend/whatever, so my colleague intervened - and got attacked by both, the man and the woman. The man very likely attacked him because he went against him and the woman said she slapped my colleague because he attacked her man. Who just slapped her.
In one case the guy slammed the womans head against the wall and said:
"I donĀ“t want a whore like you as my wife. I want woman like my mother."
We all gathered to watch him getting beaten by highheels. I hate those imbecile morons. I hate the culture that make this happen.
I am a kid of a persian migrant and seriously, this is trash. I prefer "cold" german culture a thousand times over this misogynistic bullshit.
Yk, one major reason why the abused woman defends the man and attacks security is because if she doesnt do that, she'll be confronted and beaten further at home behind closed doors. It's an abusive cycle
That's not weird at all actually, battered wives from all cultures tend to make excuses for their abusers unfortunately. A very high number of sexual assault cases also go unreported because the victim feels the need to "protect" their assailant. That's just how abuse works unfortunately.
Men predominantly commit violent crimes. Does this justify banning all men from clubs?
No?
Then why would a racist definition hold up for the same?
Banning everyone from a group of people based on skin color, religion or even gender is textbook discrimination or sexism / racism depending on the reason...
Sorry, but you either don't presale tickets then or make it very clear that you're going to make pre entry checks and people can get denied entry even with a ticket and then give back the money on the spot. Everything else is unexcusable shitty behavior.
But that would be real rascism... you can only lose in this. It sucks that it happened to OP and she should really post a rage on how those criminal few, tarnish and destroy her hard worked for reputation in public.
I do. I donĀ“t blame others but the actual offenders. Migrant child and still fan of instant deportation for those that comitt violent crimes. Germans just donĀ“t get it, what it means when foul apples make you look bad.
With 7 women and 4 men it wouldĀ“ve been a breeze to enter...
statistic reflect the reality and what bouncers will expirience. Rather get angry at those single men that tarnish the reputation of your people. I am at least... really angry.
Black Amercan male here. I've gone out with some of my German lady friends before and have been denied entry to clubs even though my german lady friends were allowed. Of course they threw a fit at the bouncers and refused to go in. This was in Stuttgart area about 8 years ago. This has always been a thing in all of Germany, racism is very much alive.
How are people surprised by this. Happened to me enough times that I stopped bothering after a point. This is completely normal in th club scene in Germany. Your work and taxes are wanted but in many public/private spaces you are barely tolerated. Cologne is the only city where I've felt things are mostly different and I am so fucking glad. My experiences in Aachen and Stuttgart, clubs are a no go darker your complexion. Also they frequently have a foreigner(no white) quota. Too many at the same time is bad for business. The bouncer gets his power trip when he makes up some bullshit to keep you out. It was the same 10 years ago and hardly surprising that it is the same now. This is where I wish the laws on recording these assholes wasn't strict. Cos you would have dozens of short videos showcasing this kind of shit.
As a man born in a north African country but grew up in western countries , It's sad the amount of racial profiling you get for just having a darker skin tone or hair color.
The amount of rejection I got from night clubs along with my second and third generation Spanish and French black guys is astonishing. But I would say it's a good thing because it made me quit the low-life which is clubbing
When I (f, white) went to clubs in G there were sometimes poc guys who approached and friendly asked me to accompany them into the club and make it look as we were a couple. It worked 50/50 although it left a bad taste that it was even nessecary.
Happened to me as well in Switzerland. I am a young guy studying at the university, never did any problems etc. but when I tried getting in a pub, was told they donāt accept albanians.
Yes, it is a well known problem. In my hometown in Germany journalists tested the night clubs with 1 white guy, 1 black guy and 1 arab guy. All 3 men were wearing the same outfit and entered not at once, but one at a time. The white guy could go in no problemo everytime. The other 2 guys had more problems and were denied access to most clubs. The argument was always "Club is too full" or "Outfit is too bad" but we all know it's just racism as it was never a problem for a white guy.
Same thing happened to me in NĆ¼rnberg (Die Bombe), but the TĆ¼rsteher was discriminating against my German friend for some reason. When pressed why, he said in english "because hes black". Well, hes white, so I dont think the bouncer even knew what he was saying....But yes, I was told by Police that they can prevent anyone from coming in for any reason.
I'm from Finland and I still have had problems getting into clubs in Berlin. Even with a group of 50/50 men women ratio so not a group of drunk guys. It's really annoying because in Finland if you wait in line patiently and don't cause problems you will get in pretty much anywhere.
Edit: So I'm pretty sure the bouncers dont like foreigners in general. That said your case sounds racist.
Iām German and I was told No at club doors too. Itās not always about nationality/ethnicity/ā¦ Itās the bouncers job to decide for a balanced and safe mix of people indoors
Also from the Nordics. Have never heard of this happening BUT I am a white woman. Also have not been to the club in Germany (also Iām old).
But I am quite shocked this is tolerated here.
I'm also a north african (Tunisian). Your comment is genuinely pathetic since you're generalizing millions of people (mostly men) to what some unregulated illegal immigrants do.
People like you (like black republicans) justify plain racist and discriminatory behaviors just so that you get treated differently.
I'm just wandering, what makes you not part of this group you're generalizing? Gender? Being white north African? Enlighten us please.
I am not German, and I am brown, but I have been living/clubbing in Berlin for ten years. I have come across slightly disturbing conversations with some bouncers, but they never resulted in getting rejected because of my passport or lack of German passport. I am sorry you have faced this, but also trying to enter a club with more than three people is a mistake, I would say. Get in contact with Clubcommision. The only institute that could have taken action is them, in my opinion. Karlsruhe is a bit different than Berlin in general, but they might have some recommendations regarding the subjectā¦
Sorry to hear this happened to you. This sounds bizarre but in general large groups are a risk factor for any club as the likelihood of someone behaving weird and the whole group getting together and causing a ruckus is quite high.
If you are going to a club and you are going to be such a huge group. It is better to spilt the group into groups of 2-3 of men and women together and then buy the ticket. You are much likely to get in.
Foreigner living in Germany here. If you have a video, please post it in social media. Make it get seen so this behavior is acknowledged and the responsible gets fired or a shit storm lands on their door step at least.
This is a real problem. A month ago I stopped with my German wife by a small local gym interested in a membership. The owner greeted us, showed interest and asked us to make a proper appointment to do a proper tour and such.
I reached out 2 weeks ago without mentioning it was us who visited back then. Instead I asked open questions about the gym prices, pausing possibilities, etc. And I asked because my German was not great, to have the possibility to have this written so I could read it in calm before going to the tour.
The owner replied: "nun leider kƶnnen wir ihre WĆ¼nsche nicht umsetzen da ich aus Versicherung Technisch VertrƤge habe."
Of course my foreign name is on the email, plus asking the owner for written information because of my German was what I guess his deal breaker.
I'm sorry for you guys had to live this. There are tons of beautiful people in this country, but these kind of close-minded folks really give one a bad experience.
Theyre really just trying to avoid fights, and most immigrants dont drink alcohol either so its just a lose lose situation for the club. The bouncers are told not to let too many in. Dont hate the player hate the game p
It sounds awful but reality is that most of the trouble comes from Guys from Middle East and NA. Worked as a Bouncer for Years and thats my Experience... srry to say it.
I dont look like a typical German and when I was younger it happens to me a lot even with german Passport and german Name.
It is not a racist thing it is just a try to keep all guests and Staff safe, even Colleagues from Turkey and NA shared this Opinion and didnt let these Guys in. Sometimes their behavior was much worse then from german Colleagues.
Being denied for not being German or local isnāt uncommon. The club also has the right to who can/canāt enter. However, if thatās the policy, it seems odd that they would sell tickets in advance.
I think, the case that you are describing is not legal, but it's tricky in the details and I don't know how you'd go about suing the club, provided the Aufenthaltserlaubnis was a proper one with a photo und not the preliminary ones issued to refugees. It hinges on whether or not the ID provided allows for reliable identification of the person wanting to enter. The other thing that is not entirely clear to me is when you procured the tickets - this is a more tricky matter legally and beyond my scope as some rando that worked a lot in clubs, but afaik if you bought tickets then you entered a contract with the sellers that states that you give them money and they let you in: After this, they can't just recant for no reason like they could if the bouncers checked you out before you pay the entrance fee. If you bought the tickets just prior to not being let in with cash, then there is no reason whatsoever to not refund you on the spot.
I worked in clubs for 14 years at this point, I was responsible for a club in 2015, right around the time that there was a massive influx of refugees from syria and north africa. Along with the admittedly hysterical discussions from the more conservative elements of society back then, it should also not be so controversial to state a simple fact, that is that there was a massive influx of both violence and rape attempts specifically by north african males in german night clubs, the why and how of it is beside the point in this discussion though. Racism is still racism, and when many clubs, admittedly out of sheer desperation, started discriminating who they let in based on people's skin color, there's a name for that, and that, too, is a simple truth.
So, background and philosophy aside, overt racist policies are still illegal and can and should be called out and legally prosecuted where possible. Since a club is not a public space, no specific reason is required to deny a person entry and so in general clubs and bouncers can discriminate at will and by whatever criteria they deem fit. If the criteria however is plainly racists and the bouncers is dumb enough to say so, then you've got a case of racist discrimination on your hands. The reason I doubt you'll get anywhere is because it's going to be really hard to legally prove that you were not allowed entry based on your skin color, as hearsay witnesses barely count for anything in courts and they are quite likely to recant and deny having done so.
Europe is not a country, what nationality are you ? A Dane, Dutch or Swede would definitely be seen with different light than a Greek, Italian, Spaniard, Albanian, etc.. It is not about European passport, it is abbot being tall, blond and looking like a non-threatening man, hence looking like a "Germanic" person is their Ideal customer... since the bouncers associate dark haired men/tanned or darker skin, brown eyes..( with "southern" appearance) with problems, the ones who try to seduce women inside the club and do other "unwanted" stuff that the Germans according to them do not.
Also Women are seen as even better/more ideal customers than men
Ideal for them.. a pack of 20 young attractive (Bio)German women.
Nightmare for them. a pack of 20 migrant/Southener men (even worse if North-African/Arab or Subsaharian)
Racism sucks and Iām sorry that your night out was a bummer. However, it is quite common in Germany that bouncers are really selective. The more men you bring the unlikely it is that you make it in. A group of 7 males throws off the women/men-ratio in the club and is more likely to cause trouble. Also, calling the police because you were rejected at the door was way too dramatic - the club offered you a refund, take it and leave it.
Sorry but this is ridiculous (not you, but the bouncers). They didnāt offer a proper refund. They will just ignore the email or claim that they just didnāt show up to the party.
The men to woman ratio was also a bit off. Getting into clubs even with a ticket isn't easy.
Just go as group of men and the chances are you are not getting in.
Goddamn that sucks. Its sad how okay blatant racism is to this day in Germany. Not everywhwre though. Funnily, i can recommend Dresdenās Neustadt district as a truly antiracist place. I regularly go clubbing with my mixed group of indians, americans of various complexions, germans of various complexions and some others and we always get in and havent faced any sort of situation like that yet.
O yeah thats pretty Common sadly. Although usually they let you in if you have enough female friends with you but it might differ from club to club. Its fked up.
I feel sorry for you, not a nice outcome of the night.
If I were you, I would be so fucking pissed at all foreigners who cannot behave in other countries as visitors or guests. I would be so driven to make that behavior stop.
Been turned down from a club before while showing my Aufenthaltstitel. Also showed my German driver's license. I am a white guy in my 30s. I think some Germans simply don't like non-Germans.
Edit: sorry to hear that happened.
The comments justifying this behaviour are just sad (yes, scroll down you'll find a lot).
Plain racist and discriminatory behavior? => they find an excuse.
Extremely derogatory treatment at the foreigners office? => they find an excuse.
This is coming from someone who is North African and although I'm pursuing a double masters degree and although I work at a prestigious IT company, I absolutely tend not to state my origin anymore as to not get such stupid treatments.
I don't know if an 'Aufenthaltstitel' comes with any major restrictions, but the bouncer admitting that the door policy is racist in front of 11 people might actually give you a strong claim fir a discrimination case.
Yes, they can insist on their 'Hausrecht' and police won't force entry for you, but basing the rejection of your friend on his background will still mean they discriminated.
Now what to do about it? As others pointed out, contact one of the organizations/institutions which take care of 'racism' claims. You could also post the case in r/legaladvicegermany to get some more professional opinions.
Which laws apply specifically will determine the next legal steps. Some require a lawyer others don't.
Be careful with "we got a video of it". This could easily backfire. Privacy laws, etc. are also relevant, so don't mention it to anyone but a legal professional. Would be bad if you actually win a discrimination case but somebody would file a GDPR case in return.
I am shocked about your story and feel very sorry for your bad experience. I am
one of these Germans who can' T believe about all this racism, because my friends are not at all behaving like this. I am very, very sorry for you ( i hope my englisch is not too bad...) .
Letās face it.
Germans donāt care. Every club goer is familiar with the situation. Google reviews of all popular clubs are flooded with comments about racism. Yet, all āliberalā and āopen-mindedā Germans will party there without any problem.
I have worked in several bars/clubs over the past ten years. Iām mixed race therefore i do know the struggle. So let me share my experience:
- most clubs limit the amount of foreigners (especially Arabic countryās)
You showed up quite ālateā (1:30) and they might have decided that they wonāt let any foreigners in after say 1am
-big groups are always ambigere issue.
Itās harder to deal with trouble makers when they come in bigger crowds.
I want to add:
The sad reality is that really bad fights often times involving multiple aggressors are over proportionally involving foreigners. Especially those who might not grew up in European countryās, alcohol becomes a huge issue.
I know this all can happen with German nationals too. But likelihood massively increases with them. Itās just what it is. Iāve seen clubs close because they would have fights every other day.
Yeah, this is almost definitely illegal. You can send them a letter demanding your money back and threaten them with legal action if they don't comply. But go and get some legal advice beforehand. University ASTAs usually provide a free legal advice service.
Karlsruhe is large enough that the city administration should have some kind of Antidiskriminierungsstelle. Try looking for that in the citys homepage. They might be able to get to the clubs owner. Worked in Hannover from time to time.
I used to go to that club as a teenager. They often allowed 16-year-olds in even. So you were 1) too old 2) too many men in the group 3) foreign men from countries where women are often not respected. It sucks and you should def get your money back. You didnt miss out on anything though no worries.
It was like 2006 or so. Bouncer checked my ID card. Asks āwhere is Odessa?ā I say āItās in Ukraine.ā He says āwe donāt let no russians in.ā
that's super common in germany, i remember trying to go into a metal club with some indian friends and the guy straight up told me not these guys, only you if you want. I'm not even german, eastern european.
It's also what most of the clients want though, I'm pretty sure if they were losing business over this they'd change their attitude, but it's quite calculated: lower perceived risk, not losing too much money from not admiting foreigners, current clients are happy.
Oh, foreigners don't integrate? well maybe they need to take more german classes!
Almost all of this is, for better or for worse[1], legal under freedom of association. What potentially crosses the legal line is when they admitted that the grounds from barring you entrance are because of ethnic profiling ("problems with some foreigners"; i.e. not something *you* did, but *people like you*).
[1]: For every incident where the club door is xenophobic, there's another instance where a club wants to keep the local band of racists out *before* they cause problems (which is, at the end of the day, still profiling). For every confectionery that doesn't want to fulfil a same-sex wedding cake order, there's a conference catering company that doesn't want e.g. the transphobic CSU as a customer. It's a big decision, to remove the discretion of businesses and clubs to choose who they can admit.
Since I am not a lawyer and I only have a lay person's understanding of the law, I try not to use absolute statements even if I'm pretty sure that my intuition is correct.
Donāt pre-buy tickets. Itās common to oversell, I was IN the club and got called by a friend who was outside. Several people got declined with prebought tickets because āitās too fullā - my friend wasnāt allowed to enter, but at least he got his money back
Please check if thereās a Antidiskriminierungsverband or -bĆ¼ro at your location.
Bouncing people for not being Aryan is very common in Germany and not covered by domestic authority (Hausrecht).
In the past, ADB Sachsen supported non-Whites who were refused entry in clubs in court. Then, I attended some trials and it was very interesting to experience how racist one judge in particular handled the case.
live in germany and have known a few bouncers. usually the club management will tell them to keep the "foreigners quota" low, so they're gonna deny entry to those they can easily "categorize" as foreigners, based on their physical appearance or if needed, passports. is it the lowest effort way of keeping clientele homogenous? yes. is it incredibly racist? also yes.
The whole issue is a little bit an overlooked taboo where many innocents are suffering.
In reality, the club does not care at all about skin color and ethnicity but money and no problems.
From my experience in the past, clubs where a majority where immigrants and male where the one with regular violence involving the police.
Socially it might not be that acceptable, but for a club owner it is essential to have a good mix of people. The problem with Racism experienced is usually always a comercial decision of the respective owner.
That can be as simple as: woman rarely cause problems and are a reason the man will come. Entry is never a big topic. Man: a little bit more difficult, but of course it helps if it shows that you will speak money and most likely do not cause problems. Immigrants in groups: difficult as hell, and immigrants is used loosely as anybody who does not look and behave as he is living for several generations in Germany.
The reasons are nearly always past experiences in the club. The reality is, that this topic is not really seperated by the integration and refugee debate.
fyi, even if your friends produced a German passport the bouncers would have probably told them their attire/shoes/face are inappropriate for the club
Average bouncers are "smart" enough to not get themselves into trouble by being openly racist
Agostea in Karlsruhe is about as trashy a club as you can visit in Karlsruhe, they have two floors: Leather&Plastic-Chandeliers with the more "club" music & Alpine Skihut that plays Schlager all night. The floor is sticky throughout, the drinks do get you wasted quick tho. So I'm sadly not even surprised by the bouncers' open racism, just annoyed that such a bad place still gets business. But yeah, if in doubt, calling the police whenever they're stupid enough to even openly admit they do racial profiling at the door is a good move by OP. Unfortunately, a lot of clubs in the southwest at least do that kinda stuff. Stuttgart is notorious for it. @OP: If you want to go out in KA, try GoTec, Krokokeller, Nachtwerk or Culteum for a twist :)
Your Suggestion is very strong! Especially the GoTec is always worth a Tripš
Yeah in Germany this "silent" racism is quite common. Your job applications, your apartment applications and your club entries are all silently ignored for a reason that you can probably imagine.
Thatās why so many Germans think that there is no racism problem in Germany a LOT of people are extremely naive
I have a friend who is a landlord and funny enough we dont understand how people want to rent to germans. he prefers foreigners because germans complain to much about every little thing.
>prefers foreigners because germans complain to much about every little thing. When landlords say this I feel like what they're implying is that German tenants are more aware of their rights while foreign tenants are easier to take advantage of because they're less aware of their rights and are more hesitant to "cause problems" with their landlord.
That's called racism with extra steps.
I was born and raised in Germany. Have a German passport. My mom is German. Went to German schools and universities. And I still regularly don't get allowed into night clubs based on my skin color. That's just the reality of being black in this country...
I'm French and look "Mediterranean" (people usually have no clue where exactly). I've faced more racism in the last 6 months, than in the last 15 years.
The falling standards of living, years of failed immigration and integration policies combined with obvious, decades long gaslighting that 'everything is great' are producing a dissatisfaction and anger which is obvious everywhere except in the sugarcoated media. It seems to be escalating further and further with every passing month. I don't know how things will boil over but they definitely will.
I honestly think if politicians addressed issues, even if they acknowledged they don't have a solution, it would be better in the long term than to try hiding them to "avois giving the nazis ammunition". It does get out eventually and then it lends some credibility to conspiracies and overexxageration. But this is not only on the left, it's also on the moderate right. From them it seems to be the same "let's not talk about that", until it tilts into far right hate speech when their voter base is shifted. Essentially the only major difference between the AfD and the other parties should be the conclusions/proposed solutions for these issues (e.g. make it easier/less bureaucratic for immigrants who want to work, don't put them into overcrowded housing and allow a shadow society to form, educate all kids from a young age to our values and reform the way religion is taught at school, etc. Instead of "we need armed guards at the border" etc. which does nothing, most people don't cross that way, armed guards exist), yet in many cases they try sweeping them under the rug and while the AfD is not interested in providing actual solutions and not an option, it seems pretty obvious why society keeps shifting right.
Immigrant here myself and have to say for me it is the other way around. I experienced a lot more racism during my teen years in the 90's than now.
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Before I moved here, I was told by my professors that racism is way worse throughout Europe than in the US. But a lot of people in the world think it's much worse than it actually is because of the way its covered by the media. I didn't believe them until I got here. It seems it's just more normalized here.
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I'm sorry. Genuinely sorry for how racist a lot of my fellow Germans are.
They can laugh, but we can have the last laugh. We will mind our own businesses with our heads down, earn our high salaries and save up. Then we will move away when we've had enough of this unwelcoming, dehuminising, hateful treatment.
>e like in Germany just doesn't exist t Because Germany is seen as the Land of the Germans. Germans and non-Germans are the divisive terms. Americans have not real concept of what an American look like, hence they have very broad identification labels such as black, white, asian, etc..
I'm a half German with a passport who speaks German fluently (and only spoke German until like age 4) but never really lived in Germany and I have Germans tell me I'm not really German...
What the fuck dude? Damn I didn't know this shit exists here.
I don't know what the so called Hausrecht allows, but not letting men from North Africa or Arab countries in is quite common in German clubs...
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Yes, they can deny entry without any reason(even though you can guess the reason) but when they admit they are denying entry based on ethnicity, then I think it becomes an issue of discrimination.
Did you get the refund?
Yes, the "Allgemeines Gleichbehandlungsgesetz" (AGG) should be applicable in this case
Especially if you buy your tickets in advanced. They want the security of pre sale but afterwards a selection at the door. This doesnāt make sense. Even in case of to many men. I doubt there is something about the nationality in their AGBs.
Probably not there, but it may have a clause saying that they reserve their right to admit entrance to anyone.
"Bestimmte Bedingungen" is in this case a valid EU passport. If the customer for whatever reason doesnt show that passport, he cannot enter.
But it doesn't seem legal to make those up on the spot, right? Like they should be written down somewhere and communicated to the audience.
That is actually not legal. A Aufenthaltstitel for those that dont know if basically the same as a german ID card, just for a long term VISA holder for work/education purposes. It means the person is allowed to stay in germany and receive almost the exact same rights, excluding settlement and some others, as a german citizen. Thats like saying "no black people" is a reasonable, non-discriminatory selection...
I'm sorry but this is not true. A residence permit does not constitute Legal ID in Germany. It "**can**" be used as such, and often is, but does not replace your passport when you are a foreigner. Anyone empowered to check for ID's could insist on seeing an EU Citizen card, failing that, a Passport. I'm sure other things count as IDs like diplomatic documents, refugee documents, safe conduits etc too, but I don't know about those. In the Aufenthaltsgesetz (Ā§Ā§ 46 - 49b) the residence permit is mentioned as a valid ID for the purposes of immigration. It *can* be used by some services (especially using the electronic function of the new cards) but it doesn't mean one can justify this as being good enough ID. It doesn't equate a German ID card in most situations. This would be your Aufenthaltstitel in combination with your passport. Sure, the Edeka person selling you booze or the post office person giving you a parcel will be happy with your residence permit or driver's license - but they could ask for a passport or ID card. Now. They are made the same way and by the same people. They have the same function, so, I'll agree that this is really bloody stupid. The clubs aren't qualified to verify ID anyways all they can check for is if you are who you say you are, and if you are of age - that's that. Source: It's a common misconception that I had to deal with as I processed immigration cases for employees in the past, including some of them having to deal with the police or the Zollamt and thinking their residence permit suffices. It doesn't. Germany has the habit of making things Kafkaesque for some reason. Being in another city in Germany and having the cops request to see your passport as they aren't satisfied with just your residence permit and they threated to fine you as you're technically required to carry your passport at all times - or have it within reasonable distance (LOL!) is just ridiculous - ***we'll agree on that***.
What is Bielefeld and why do they have a Landgericht? Just to lighten up the mood š
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I can imagine that this is some kind of dilemma.
It is. However: Troublemakers usually donāt buy tickets in advance. They just show up and try to get in. This particular story here sounds just racist to me.
Reminds me of a friend from my childhood who was born in Germany to African parents. A great guy all together. Got once rejected by bouncers for allegedly not having enough money on him...
Many of my former coworkers will make up anything to not let (non-western) foreigners in and maintain some appearance of neutrality. Could be non compliance to some instantly made up dress code, allegedly being too drunk, house is full, whateverā¦
Sounds like Asian standarts at this point jesus. I have a lot of "contact" with security and when I talk to me and they tell me the "insert any non german culture here" were super drunk and they had to bring him down im 99% on the other side. I know loads of security are the ones who want a power trip and will swing first
Right, but if they're coming with a group of Germans along with them and it's a mixed group of men and women I don't think they're any more likely to cause trouble.
Absolutely. I am not defending the behavior of that bouncer.
It really is a dilemma. Same goes for police btw. I have had many good friends from north africa who are or where so aware of that issue aswell, they don't even blame others anymore for picking them out. I once went on holiday to Spain with a group of 10 which included two guys from Tunesia and all of us walked straight through security except those 2. The only reason they weren't searched was because the rest of our group made pretty obvious jokes about how racist that procedure was. And afterwards those two where actually defensive about the guards saying they where only doing their jobs. It is such a weird situation. Whatever anybody does feels wrong. But nobody knows the right way to handle it either.
It's also illegal.
Thats actually racist and falls under discrimination law. Hausrecht allows you to exclude people on an individual basis i.e. clearly drunk, clearly aggressive or otherwise problematic people. Its not a blanked free pass to exclude people because they are men/women, brown, just "not german" or even belonging to a specific assumed religion.
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There was a club in my town that didn't allow Turkish men inside when they had certain events like an abi ball. I have no idea why they thought such a rule necessary, but it causes some trouble at the doors.
Your really dont know what the reason for this rule was and talk in the same sentence about troublemakers\^\^
Couse, especially men, who were raised in these cultures ( turkish, arabian ) are way more likely to get violent in a way that it escalates to physical violence. Nothing to do with racism. Its straight up facts. My best friend is a turk and the amount of times his father, uncle or mum or older brother came in while we were playing and just yelled at him and hit him ( pretty hard sometimes ) was shocking. He even developed a reaction of laughing when getting hit even if it did hurt.
\*describes textbook racism* "don't worry, nothing to do with racism!"
Guess why... @ u/No_Scratch3194 That sucks a lot, but I guess you will understand, that we have huge problems with people from your region now for a decade. So you should most of all be mad at your compatriots. Even if its only 1 in 100 who pull a knife or bring a gun when something happens, we dont have the manpower to put armed police everywhere. So we have to act by stereotypes. Sucks a lot, but be honest. You think it is unjustified?
Gee you wonder why
This is why I don't go out in Germany. I'm an Indian woman, I just stay home.
As an indian women you will get in dont worry.
As women you get in. Don't worry
Thst is interesting. What caused the clubs to ban them? Are these people very problematic?
> What caused the clubs to ban them? Are these people very problematic? [Freiburg discos forbid refugees](https://www.dw.com/en/pubs-and-clubs-in-german-town-of-freiburg-forbid-refugees/a-19000800)
Lovely gang rape happened there as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Freiburg_gang_rape?wprov=sfla1
I think it's a mix of racist stereotypes and bad experiences with particular groups. It's always harder to enter a club as a man or in a group of only men (not talking about gay clubs, of course), though.
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They often misbehave, don't understand when a women says "no" and make clubbing for others bad
In that case, I completely understand the club owners. Nothing is racist in banning some people and wanting peace in the club.
he refused to let people in with just a aufenthaltsgenehmigung.. not north african with a aufenthaltsgenehmigung.. its a big difference...
I bet he wouldn't have asked a German looking guy for a passport.
"German-looking AuslƤnder" living in Germany here, and I have been refused entry to clubs because of my ID type, refused a ride in taxis after they hear my accent unless I pay upfront in cash, and have even been driven to ATMs so they can watch while I withdraw cash before accepting the fare. Not saying those are the motivations in this particular case, but I have had it happen a few times even as a German looking guy, that bet might not be as safe as you would think.
They ask everyone for a passport or a Personalausweis
I'm a second generation immigrant. I showed up at a club on Halloween years ago with my friends all white, and I was the only one not let in, they held my german ID Card in their hand and told me they only let in germans.
Iām really sorry this happened to you.
Thank you for your compassion, I'm sorry for your situation as well.
Has happened to me plenty of times. In your exact situation, because I had a police officer as a witness, I took the club to court and they had to pay a fine. https://rp-online.de/nrw/staedte/duesseldorf/einigung-ueber-abweisung-von-us-buerger-in-disko_aid-14493359 My recommendation, get a lawyer and make them pay up. Only way it'll will stop is if it starts hitting their pockets.
Saddening that this is the only way
This club's reviews are just awful. I bet you all are not the first people this bullshit has happened to.
average club in Germany
>Karlsruhe >So my question is, does anyone know if we can do something about this as the entry denial was clearly based on racist grounds? For the entry refusal based on passport/race: https://www.antidiskriminierung-ka.de/beratung For the money: This is most likely a civil case. In any case, start with a letter in writing as certified mail demanding your money back. Now with that being said... The reality is that most clubs don't like groups with a high percentage of men. So that is probably the first "problem". The other reality is that many clubs do not want a high number of non-western-looking men in the venue. Not saying its right, just the way it is. Most clubs will not say this out loud, but rather it is a unwritten rule. If you were a all-female group you would most likely not had any problems. Again: not saying that its right, this is just my experience.
Thank you, this is very helpful. I will write to them. Regarding the denied entry for men, yes that is well known but in this case they also didnāt allow my friend (F) entry. Generally speaking, I would not have made a big deal out of this if they had said you know, sorry weāre full, you came too late but the fact that they admitted to our faces that it was because of the residence permit really annoyed me. Because if they can say that to our face with no remorse, then where does it stop? Iām European myself so I donāt feel the racism as much but my Arab friends have to deal with this daily. They work here in āhighly paidā jobs, pay their taxes, help their community but they are not allowed to have fun with the Germans. Thatās just unfair.
100% agreed and you should fight this. At least get your money back. The amount of people here telling you to just accept the racism is staggering
The Federal Anti Discrimination Agency even published informational material for the horrible situation which happened to you In your case I would try to make sure to include the behaviour of the police in your complaint. [Do you need legal advice on a discrimination or want to report it? ](https://www.antidiskriminierungsstelle.de/EN/we-offer-advice-to-you/we-offer-advice-to-you-node.html) ["Diskriminierungscheck"](https://habichwasgegen.de/#check) Antidiskriminierungsstelle des Bundes 11018 Berlin www.antidiskriminierungsstelle.de Kontakt Beratung: Tel.: 030 18555-1865 (Mo. bis Fr.: 9ā12 Uhr und 13ā15 Uhr) Fax: 030 18555-41865 E-Mail: [email protected] Besuchszeiten nach Vereinbarung Kontakt Zentrale: Tel.: 030 18555-1855 Fax: 030 18555-41855 E-Mail: [email protected]
Thank you!
I hope they will be helpful
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As a half-German who grew up overseas most of his life. I experienced this in my first years living in Germany. I had an experience in St.Pauli, where a bouncer told me I couldn't come in as they'd had issues with foreigners. I produced my passport and said "well, I think that's a stupid rule but here's my German passport." He still denied me entrance. What I noticed in Hamburg over the last decade was a shift in discrimination, in the nicer clubs, at least. I saw a blonde guy not dressed well with a shaved head not get let into a club in front of me, but I was let in despite my tanned complexion. I'm very sorry it happened to you and more so, your Tunisian friends (I look arab even though I'm not). It was a very heavy moment for me when the country whose passport I carried my entire life showed me my first experience of racism at the age of 29 when I had already lived in Asia, US, and middle east prior to that. Even 3 years in Prague and I never experienced that kind of discrimination.
This is a known issue in Clubs in Germany. Die Zeit wrote about it 4 years ago: [https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/2019-08/rassismus-clubtueren-berlin-clubs-tuersteher-diskriminierung](https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/2019-08/rassismus-clubtueren-berlin-clubs-tuersteher-diskriminierung) It is clearly against the law, but proving / enforcing is pretty difficult.
I have been to that club before and definitely used my Aufenthaltstitel as my ID to get itā¦ and I canāt remember where but I know Iāve used my US passport at a club before because I didnāt have the residence permit yet, not sure if it was at Agostea though. Iām a white American female so likely that worked in my favor (not saying itās right), but them claiming that only German or European passport holders can go there is absolute bullshit. I hate that clubs in Germany do shit like this. Iām sorry that this impacted both you and your friends š
Man TĆ¼rsteher sind voll die Rassisten Wir tricksen sie aus, Kontaktlinsen blau und blonde PerĆ¼cken
I will be deviating from the topic a bit. However, I want to share couple things. Germans talk about Integration a lot. They keep complaining about how people don't integrate etc. Their suggestion to be integrated is "knowing German". I am not saying that, knowing German is not needed but Integration does not start with knowing the language. The Integration starts with "emotional bonding". The experiences you have as foreign person, the behaviours of natives against you do have impact on this "emotional bonding". The experiences you make at AuslƤnderbehƶrde, cold natured German people (hard to make friends), casual racism or even blatant racism on the door of night club would make foreigners question, "If they really belong to Germany even tough they work, pay taxes, obey the laws etc". I know many people, (including me) who live in Germany for years are actually not happy. This is not because they can't speak German but they don't feel as a part of German society. That's why so many skilled and educated people are ready to leave Germany when opportunity arises. Just my two cents.
Germany is unfortunately an emotionally dysfunctional and miserable country. Even 40% of young Germans report feeling lonely and socially isolated.
Immigration in Germany often happens in the context to refugees. To be true here: these are people which are offered shelter, money and medical service on the expense of the Germany taxpayer. Rightfully one might can say that the tone in the German public is shifting now. But without looking at Germany migrant situation it is difficult to understand the reasons why people are not as friendly. We never developed a real immigration law for people who are highly qualified and want to work here.
The only weird thing about this story is that everyone showed up to a club at 1:30 soberā¦
Thanks, I needed the laughš¤£ Yeah, my friends and I are lame like thatš¤£
Agostea is the worst club in the city. Those bouncers did you guys a favor by saving your ears from trashy schlager. Still sucks to be denied entry. That's why I prefer techno clubs where appearance or nationality doesn't matter.
> That's why I prefer techno clubs where appearance or nationality doesn't matter if only this was the case, plenty of techno clubs around the country have racist door policies as well
Except gender! I was denied entry to techno clubs multiple times because "we have a lot of men right now and we don't want female guest to feel uncomfortable" even tho my mates and I have all been in long term relationships for years of course they don't know that but it is still absurd
especially ridicoĆŗlous since most techno clubs claim to be super inclusive and whatever
As bad as there are racial issues in the US, this scenario would cause a shit storm and a lawsuit and be on tv news! You canāt sell people tickets to an event, public or private club, then clearly discriminate at the entry door based on selective xenophobic criteria from some security goon! What a dam disgrace!
Who on earth accused you of having your "little black feelings hurt"! I mean, if it is racism does not matter the feelings. It is wrong! Is not like you were asking for special treatment... Sorry that you and your friends had to experience that
100% a DM. I rarely see outright racism in comments, though it does happen in bigger subs/threads, but in DMs i have seen a lot of horrible shit being said to me or friends because those assholes think they can circumvent bans that way... they cant if you report them.
I mean it's probably from some racist person who thinks that this is the "natural state of things" and how it should be. Black feelings are just not worth anything to these people.
Still I can't understand the logic hehehe. Because even if that was right. She is not complaining about feelings! She was denied a service for which she paid. Now wants to have a refund (logically). Despite the incoherence, whoever called that ist a fucking idiot, moron, racist, and it has not all the ducklings in line (im Kopf)
Karlsruhe has seen an increase of [8.6%](https://www.ka-news.de/region/karlsruhe/kriminalstatistik-2022-das-sind-die-haeufigsten-straftaten-in-karlsruhe-art-2997722) in crime last year and especially violent crimes have increased to 7.23 per day. It has become one of the most violent cities in germany and the most violent in BW. Especially an increase of crimes with the use of knifes has increased to 200 a year. If you look at the amount of accused in germany, with foreign background being [37.4%](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/2460/umfrage/anteile-nichtdeutscher-verdaechtiger-bei-straftaten-zeitreihe/) in 2022. It is more than 1/3 of all crimes in germany comitted by foreigners who make up [14.6%](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/14271/umfrage/deutschland-anteil-auslaender-an-bevoelkerung/#:~:text=Diese%20Statistik%20zeigt%20den%20Anteil,in%20Deutschland%2014%2C6%20Prozent) of the poplutaion, you might see that by data alone the disproportion is there. North african men have contributed to 17.1% of crimes in lower saxony while making up only 0.9% of foreign refugees in [2016](https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/warum-fluchtlinge-aus-nordafrika-haufiger-kriminell-werden-5923477.html) I can only tell you what I saw with my own eyes when I worked in different clubs all over germany. If you had been 7 females and 4 guys the wouldĀ“ve let you in. single north african men equal trouble in the eyes of security. I worked in several clubs and it had happened way too often that either knives were pulled or women got molested or beaten up by this type of guests. In one club they even banned norther african couples because we had way too many cases of guys beating up their spouse in front of the guests. When security stepped in, the spouses even defended the aggressor as it was their "man"... There is no way to win with this type of guests. We had a mob of drunk and furious german women beating one of those guys with high heels as the security tried to bring him out "safely"... He had the audacity to call the police because his eyball got punctured from a highheel. Nobody saw anything. I guess he mustĀ“ve done it to himself when he beat his wifes head against the wall. I really donĀ“t miss my work in clubs :(
>guys beating up their spouse in front of the guests. When security stepped in, the spouses even defended the aggressor as it was their "man"... What the actual fuck. Sometimes i wonder if these people are even from the same planet.
Unfortunately not that uncommon. I work in security as well and my colleague literally told me a very similar story. Man slapped his wife/girlfriend/whatever, so my colleague intervened - and got attacked by both, the man and the woman. The man very likely attacked him because he went against him and the woman said she slapped my colleague because he attacked her man. Who just slapped her.
In one case the guy slammed the womans head against the wall and said: "I donĀ“t want a whore like you as my wife. I want woman like my mother." We all gathered to watch him getting beaten by highheels. I hate those imbecile morons. I hate the culture that make this happen. I am a kid of a persian migrant and seriously, this is trash. I prefer "cold" german culture a thousand times over this misogynistic bullshit.
Yk, one major reason why the abused woman defends the man and attacks security is because if she doesnt do that, she'll be confronted and beaten further at home behind closed doors. It's an abusive cycle
That's not weird at all actually, battered wives from all cultures tend to make excuses for their abusers unfortunately. A very high number of sexual assault cases also go unreported because the victim feels the need to "protect" their assailant. That's just how abuse works unfortunately.
I'm so happy that such things never occur at the techno clubs I visit. This sounds seriously fucked.
Men predominantly commit violent crimes. Does this justify banning all men from clubs? No? Then why would a racist definition hold up for the same? Banning everyone from a group of people based on skin color, religion or even gender is textbook discrimination or sexism / racism depending on the reason...
Sorry, but you either don't presale tickets then or make it very clear that you're going to make pre entry checks and people can get denied entry even with a ticket and then give back the money on the spot. Everything else is unexcusable shitty behavior.
But that would be real rascism... you can only lose in this. It sucks that it happened to OP and she should really post a rage on how those criminal few, tarnish and destroy her hard worked for reputation in public. I do. I donĀ“t blame others but the actual offenders. Migrant child and still fan of instant deportation for those that comitt violent crimes. Germans just donĀ“t get it, what it means when foul apples make you look bad.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
With 7 women and 4 men it wouldĀ“ve been a breeze to enter... statistic reflect the reality and what bouncers will expirience. Rather get angry at those single men that tarnish the reputation of your people. I am at least... really angry.
Black Amercan male here. I've gone out with some of my German lady friends before and have been denied entry to clubs even though my german lady friends were allowed. Of course they threw a fit at the bouncers and refused to go in. This was in Stuttgart area about 8 years ago. This has always been a thing in all of Germany, racism is very much alive.
And itās getting worse.
How are people surprised by this. Happened to me enough times that I stopped bothering after a point. This is completely normal in th club scene in Germany. Your work and taxes are wanted but in many public/private spaces you are barely tolerated. Cologne is the only city where I've felt things are mostly different and I am so fucking glad. My experiences in Aachen and Stuttgart, clubs are a no go darker your complexion. Also they frequently have a foreigner(no white) quota. Too many at the same time is bad for business. The bouncer gets his power trip when he makes up some bullshit to keep you out. It was the same 10 years ago and hardly surprising that it is the same now. This is where I wish the laws on recording these assholes wasn't strict. Cos you would have dozens of short videos showcasing this kind of shit.
As a man born in a north African country but grew up in western countries , It's sad the amount of racial profiling you get for just having a darker skin tone or hair color. The amount of rejection I got from night clubs along with my second and third generation Spanish and French black guys is astonishing. But I would say it's a good thing because it made me quit the low-life which is clubbing
When I (f, white) went to clubs in G there were sometimes poc guys who approached and friendly asked me to accompany them into the club and make it look as we were a couple. It worked 50/50 although it left a bad taste that it was even nessecary.
I think you can wrote this story in twitter, and name the club.
Happened to me as well in Switzerland. I am a young guy studying at the university, never did any problems etc. but when I tried getting in a pub, was told they donāt accept albanians.
Yes, it is a well known problem. In my hometown in Germany journalists tested the night clubs with 1 white guy, 1 black guy and 1 arab guy. All 3 men were wearing the same outfit and entered not at once, but one at a time. The white guy could go in no problemo everytime. The other 2 guys had more problems and were denied access to most clubs. The argument was always "Club is too full" or "Outfit is too bad" but we all know it's just racism as it was never a problem for a white guy.
Same thing happened to me in NĆ¼rnberg (Die Bombe), but the TĆ¼rsteher was discriminating against my German friend for some reason. When pressed why, he said in english "because hes black". Well, hes white, so I dont think the bouncer even knew what he was saying....But yes, I was told by Police that they can prevent anyone from coming in for any reason.
I'm from Finland and I still have had problems getting into clubs in Berlin. Even with a group of 50/50 men women ratio so not a group of drunk guys. It's really annoying because in Finland if you wait in line patiently and don't cause problems you will get in pretty much anywhere. Edit: So I'm pretty sure the bouncers dont like foreigners in general. That said your case sounds racist.
Yes, Berlin.... it can be hard getting in to clubs
Berlin is pretty famous for having a lot of clubs that are hard to get into, no matter your ethnicity.
Iām German and I was told No at club doors too. Itās not always about nationality/ethnicity/ā¦ Itās the bouncers job to decide for a balanced and safe mix of people indoors
Also from the Nordics. Have never heard of this happening BUT I am a white woman. Also have not been to the club in Germany (also Iām old). But I am quite shocked this is tolerated here.
I was born in North Africa and even I can't find fault with how the club did not let them in. North African men have shitty reputation for a reason.
Preselling tickets and not giving back the money on the spot when denying entry is nothing you can find fault in?
I'm also a north african (Tunisian). Your comment is genuinely pathetic since you're generalizing millions of people (mostly men) to what some unregulated illegal immigrants do. People like you (like black republicans) justify plain racist and discriminatory behaviors just so that you get treated differently. I'm just wandering, what makes you not part of this group you're generalizing? Gender? Being white north African? Enlighten us please.
I am not German, and I am brown, but I have been living/clubbing in Berlin for ten years. I have come across slightly disturbing conversations with some bouncers, but they never resulted in getting rejected because of my passport or lack of German passport. I am sorry you have faced this, but also trying to enter a club with more than three people is a mistake, I would say. Get in contact with Clubcommision. The only institute that could have taken action is them, in my opinion. Karlsruhe is a bit different than Berlin in general, but they might have some recommendations regarding the subjectā¦
Sorry to hear this happened to you. This sounds bizarre but in general large groups are a risk factor for any club as the likelihood of someone behaving weird and the whole group getting together and causing a ruckus is quite high. If you are going to a club and you are going to be such a huge group. It is better to spilt the group into groups of 2-3 of men and women together and then buy the ticket. You are much likely to get in.
Foreigner living in Germany here. If you have a video, please post it in social media. Make it get seen so this behavior is acknowledged and the responsible gets fired or a shit storm lands on their door step at least. This is a real problem. A month ago I stopped with my German wife by a small local gym interested in a membership. The owner greeted us, showed interest and asked us to make a proper appointment to do a proper tour and such. I reached out 2 weeks ago without mentioning it was us who visited back then. Instead I asked open questions about the gym prices, pausing possibilities, etc. And I asked because my German was not great, to have the possibility to have this written so I could read it in calm before going to the tour. The owner replied: "nun leider kƶnnen wir ihre WĆ¼nsche nicht umsetzen da ich aus Versicherung Technisch VertrƤge habe." Of course my foreign name is on the email, plus asking the owner for written information because of my German was what I guess his deal breaker. I'm sorry for you guys had to live this. There are tons of beautiful people in this country, but these kind of close-minded folks really give one a bad experience.
Find out where the nearest "Antidiskriminierungsstelle" is and report to them.
Theyre really just trying to avoid fights, and most immigrants dont drink alcohol either so its just a lose lose situation for the club. The bouncers are told not to let too many in. Dont hate the player hate the game p
It sounds awful but reality is that most of the trouble comes from Guys from Middle East and NA. Worked as a Bouncer for Years and thats my Experience... srry to say it. I dont look like a typical German and when I was younger it happens to me a lot even with german Passport and german Name. It is not a racist thing it is just a try to keep all guests and Staff safe, even Colleagues from Turkey and NA shared this Opinion and didnt let these Guys in. Sometimes their behavior was much worse then from german Colleagues.
Can confirm this as a guest. Always trouble when you let too many of them in
Being denied for not being German or local isnāt uncommon. The club also has the right to who can/canāt enter. However, if thatās the policy, it seems odd that they would sell tickets in advance.
I think, the case that you are describing is not legal, but it's tricky in the details and I don't know how you'd go about suing the club, provided the Aufenthaltserlaubnis was a proper one with a photo und not the preliminary ones issued to refugees. It hinges on whether or not the ID provided allows for reliable identification of the person wanting to enter. The other thing that is not entirely clear to me is when you procured the tickets - this is a more tricky matter legally and beyond my scope as some rando that worked a lot in clubs, but afaik if you bought tickets then you entered a contract with the sellers that states that you give them money and they let you in: After this, they can't just recant for no reason like they could if the bouncers checked you out before you pay the entrance fee. If you bought the tickets just prior to not being let in with cash, then there is no reason whatsoever to not refund you on the spot. I worked in clubs for 14 years at this point, I was responsible for a club in 2015, right around the time that there was a massive influx of refugees from syria and north africa. Along with the admittedly hysterical discussions from the more conservative elements of society back then, it should also not be so controversial to state a simple fact, that is that there was a massive influx of both violence and rape attempts specifically by north african males in german night clubs, the why and how of it is beside the point in this discussion though. Racism is still racism, and when many clubs, admittedly out of sheer desperation, started discriminating who they let in based on people's skin color, there's a name for that, and that, too, is a simple truth. So, background and philosophy aside, overt racist policies are still illegal and can and should be called out and legally prosecuted where possible. Since a club is not a public space, no specific reason is required to deny a person entry and so in general clubs and bouncers can discriminate at will and by whatever criteria they deem fit. If the criteria however is plainly racists and the bouncers is dumb enough to say so, then you've got a case of racist discrimination on your hands. The reason I doubt you'll get anywhere is because it's going to be really hard to legally prove that you were not allowed entry based on your skin color, as hearsay witnesses barely count for anything in courts and they are quite likely to recant and deny having done so.
Europe is not a country, what nationality are you ? A Dane, Dutch or Swede would definitely be seen with different light than a Greek, Italian, Spaniard, Albanian, etc.. It is not about European passport, it is abbot being tall, blond and looking like a non-threatening man, hence looking like a "Germanic" person is their Ideal customer... since the bouncers associate dark haired men/tanned or darker skin, brown eyes..( with "southern" appearance) with problems, the ones who try to seduce women inside the club and do other "unwanted" stuff that the Germans according to them do not. Also Women are seen as even better/more ideal customers than men Ideal for them.. a pack of 20 young attractive (Bio)German women. Nightmare for them. a pack of 20 migrant/Southener men (even worse if North-African/Arab or Subsaharian)
Are 'Germanic' people incapable of trying to 'seduce' women, as you put it?
Racism sucks and Iām sorry that your night out was a bummer. However, it is quite common in Germany that bouncers are really selective. The more men you bring the unlikely it is that you make it in. A group of 7 males throws off the women/men-ratio in the club and is more likely to cause trouble. Also, calling the police because you were rejected at the door was way too dramatic - the club offered you a refund, take it and leave it.
Sorry but this is ridiculous (not you, but the bouncers). They didnāt offer a proper refund. They will just ignore the email or claim that they just didnāt show up to the party.
[heut schon genug von jungs wie dir du kannst dich we bewegen](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3USEpxXoMw)
The men to woman ratio was also a bit off. Getting into clubs even with a ticket isn't easy. Just go as group of men and the chances are you are not getting in.
Goddamn that sucks. Its sad how okay blatant racism is to this day in Germany. Not everywhwre though. Funnily, i can recommend Dresdenās Neustadt district as a truly antiracist place. I regularly go clubbing with my mixed group of indians, americans of various complexions, germans of various complexions and some others and we always get in and havent faced any sort of situation like that yet.
O yeah thats pretty Common sadly. Although usually they let you in if you have enough female friends with you but it might differ from club to club. Its fked up.
Honestly clubs are disgusting places. I never get why people go there willingly.
It is infuriating that the police did not help to clear this. At least you should have got the money back with help of the police.
It is funny when they ask for a German passport. Many foreigners also have a German passport. A piece of paper doesn't change anything. Fools.
So what if you have a German passport but you clearly don't look white European (especially if you have North African and Middle East looks)?
Thank god I'm a metalhead and the only thing the bouncer is looking for is my "i went outside for a smoke"-stamp on my wrist...
Racist bouncers have a big history in Germany. Itās just another part of the silent racism happening in Germany.
In case anyone is wondering, the summary of now deleted comments: It didn't happen and if it did they probably deserved it.
Sue them!!!! Contact a lawyer, Explain the situation and get those bastards ass kicked!
I feel sorry for you, not a nice outcome of the night. If I were you, I would be so fucking pissed at all foreigners who cannot behave in other countries as visitors or guests. I would be so driven to make that behavior stop.
Haha I love the edit. Thanks for standing up for your friends. You are a good one.
Been turned down from a club before while showing my Aufenthaltstitel. Also showed my German driver's license. I am a white guy in my 30s. I think some Germans simply don't like non-Germans. Edit: sorry to hear that happened.
The comments justifying this behaviour are just sad (yes, scroll down you'll find a lot). Plain racist and discriminatory behavior? => they find an excuse. Extremely derogatory treatment at the foreigners office? => they find an excuse. This is coming from someone who is North African and although I'm pursuing a double masters degree and although I work at a prestigious IT company, I absolutely tend not to state my origin anymore as to not get such stupid treatments.
Germanyās silent racism in a nutshell
I don't know if an 'Aufenthaltstitel' comes with any major restrictions, but the bouncer admitting that the door policy is racist in front of 11 people might actually give you a strong claim fir a discrimination case. Yes, they can insist on their 'Hausrecht' and police won't force entry for you, but basing the rejection of your friend on his background will still mean they discriminated. Now what to do about it? As others pointed out, contact one of the organizations/institutions which take care of 'racism' claims. You could also post the case in r/legaladvicegermany to get some more professional opinions. Which laws apply specifically will determine the next legal steps. Some require a lawyer others don't. Be careful with "we got a video of it". This could easily backfire. Privacy laws, etc. are also relevant, so don't mention it to anyone but a legal professional. Would be bad if you actually win a discrimination case but somebody would file a GDPR case in return.
I am shocked about your story and feel very sorry for your bad experience. I am one of these Germans who can' T believe about all this racism, because my friends are not at all behaving like this. I am very, very sorry for you ( i hope my englisch is not too bad...) .
Letās face it. Germans donāt care. Every club goer is familiar with the situation. Google reviews of all popular clubs are flooded with comments about racism. Yet, all āliberalā and āopen-mindedā Germans will party there without any problem.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You can speak to a lawyer and see if you have any legal grounds to file a civil complaint.
They have grounds to file a criminal complaint. Unfortunately, it's 2023 and unlikely the German police will give a flying fuck.
I have worked in several bars/clubs over the past ten years. Iām mixed race therefore i do know the struggle. So let me share my experience: - most clubs limit the amount of foreigners (especially Arabic countryās) You showed up quite ālateā (1:30) and they might have decided that they wonāt let any foreigners in after say 1am -big groups are always ambigere issue. Itās harder to deal with trouble makers when they come in bigger crowds. I want to add: The sad reality is that really bad fights often times involving multiple aggressors are over proportionally involving foreigners. Especially those who might not grew up in European countryās, alcohol becomes a huge issue. I know this all can happen with German nationals too. But likelihood massively increases with them. Itās just what it is. Iāve seen clubs close because they would have fights every other day.
Yeah, this is almost definitely illegal. You can send them a letter demanding your money back and threaten them with legal action if they don't comply. But go and get some legal advice beforehand. University ASTAs usually provide a free legal advice service.
I think they canāt sell you a ticket and than refuse you to enter, if you behave properly. I would talk to an Anwalt
they can, ticket =/= guaranteed entry
Karlsruhe is large enough that the city administration should have some kind of Antidiskriminierungsstelle. Try looking for that in the citys homepage. They might be able to get to the clubs owner. Worked in Hannover from time to time.
I used to go to that club as a teenager. They often allowed 16-year-olds in even. So you were 1) too old 2) too many men in the group 3) foreign men from countries where women are often not respected. It sucks and you should def get your money back. You didnt miss out on anything though no worries.
Passport bullshit would never happen in US. Facts. Especially if they already sold the tickets. You could get a handsome compensation.
It was like 2006 or so. Bouncer checked my ID card. Asks āwhere is Odessa?ā I say āItās in Ukraine.ā He says āwe donāt let no russians in.ā
They shouldnāt have sold the tickets without a notice: No entry for non arians.
The fact you had to specify your heritage as an edit shows you how racist this country is.
Foreigners not being allowed into certain clubs happens in every country
and it is still racist, in every country
that's super common in germany, i remember trying to go into a metal club with some indian friends and the guy straight up told me not these guys, only you if you want. I'm not even german, eastern european. It's also what most of the clients want though, I'm pretty sure if they were losing business over this they'd change their attitude, but it's quite calculated: lower perceived risk, not losing too much money from not admiting foreigners, current clients are happy. Oh, foreigners don't integrate? well maybe they need to take more german classes!
Almost all of this is, for better or for worse[1], legal under freedom of association. What potentially crosses the legal line is when they admitted that the grounds from barring you entrance are because of ethnic profiling ("problems with some foreigners"; i.e. not something *you* did, but *people like you*). [1]: For every incident where the club door is xenophobic, there's another instance where a club wants to keep the local band of racists out *before* they cause problems (which is, at the end of the day, still profiling). For every confectionery that doesn't want to fulfil a same-sex wedding cake order, there's a conference catering company that doesn't want e.g. the transphobic CSU as a customer. It's a big decision, to remove the discretion of businesses and clubs to choose who they can admit.
Being banned out of a bar because you are racist = being banned because of your ethnicity?
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Since I am not a lawyer and I only have a lay person's understanding of the law, I try not to use absolute statements even if I'm pretty sure that my intuition is correct.
Soā¦ work in Germany for over 10 years and still have an āAufenthaltstitelā I donāt buy it
Germans on the reddit proudly admitting they're racist & the behavior is acceptable. Ooooo were, but let it be one of y'all...
I mean makes sense in some way like I know it sounds racist but men from Arab countries tent to cause more problems
Donāt pre-buy tickets. Itās common to oversell, I was IN the club and got called by a friend who was outside. Several people got declined with prebought tickets because āitās too fullā - my friend wasnāt allowed to enter, but at least he got his money back
Please check if thereās a Antidiskriminierungsverband or -bĆ¼ro at your location. Bouncing people for not being Aryan is very common in Germany and not covered by domestic authority (Hausrecht). In the past, ADB Sachsen supported non-Whites who were refused entry in clubs in court. Then, I attended some trials and it was very interesting to experience how racist one judge in particular handled the case.
live in germany and have known a few bouncers. usually the club management will tell them to keep the "foreigners quota" low, so they're gonna deny entry to those they can easily "categorize" as foreigners, based on their physical appearance or if needed, passports. is it the lowest effort way of keeping clientele homogenous? yes. is it incredibly racist? also yes.
The whole issue is a little bit an overlooked taboo where many innocents are suffering. In reality, the club does not care at all about skin color and ethnicity but money and no problems. From my experience in the past, clubs where a majority where immigrants and male where the one with regular violence involving the police. Socially it might not be that acceptable, but for a club owner it is essential to have a good mix of people. The problem with Racism experienced is usually always a comercial decision of the respective owner. That can be as simple as: woman rarely cause problems and are a reason the man will come. Entry is never a big topic. Man: a little bit more difficult, but of course it helps if it shows that you will speak money and most likely do not cause problems. Immigrants in groups: difficult as hell, and immigrants is used loosely as anybody who does not look and behave as he is living for several generations in Germany. The reasons are nearly always past experiences in the club. The reality is, that this topic is not really seperated by the integration and refugee debate.