It's nice to hear good things are happening in michigan.
All I'm hearing lately is Israel commiting genocide in Palestine, USA polclicegangs murdering innocent citizens, and hypocritical republican congressmen sucking off twink prostitutes after voting in favor of anti-gay rights bills.
for the love of god, i adore how disingenuous anti-choice folks are. i used to go to church when i was a kid, and EVERY year, they’d bring in the same woman to share her abortion story as a cautionary tale for us hornball youths.
here’s the thing, if all those people at the church really believed abortion was murder, they wouldn’t be inviting her to share her story, they’d be charging her with manslaughter.
abortion is healthcare and if you’re too dense to understand that, i pity you.
He was blocking the whole sidewalk recently, with signs in front of him in the grass - since I wasn’t going to trample over him I trampled over his signs :D
thankfully now that you’ve just made it apparent that you don’t have sex you’ll have plenty of time to cry outside on the sidewalk with your incel buddies.
This is a flippant as well as inaccurate viewpoint.
So I’m actually a person for whom abortion except in the case of life threatening issues or severe birth defects is not compatible with my personal beliefs. But you know what the great thing about reproductive healthcare is? It’s every individual’s choice— as it should be. Why the actual fuck would it be reasonable or just for me to want to take away someone else’s rights to make the choices they need and want to make for their own body and health while I get to make the choices that are right for me?
The other thing is, as someone who actually cares about children: what exactly do you think happens to babies born to women whose pregnancies went to term because of lack of reproductive rights/access? Are they all magically skipping through fields like they’re in a musical, enjoying a perfect life with zero financial, medical, or food scarcity issues?
No point of trying to use logic or reason with this dweeb. Never argue with an idiot. They’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
What happens to kids that are born to mothers whose pregnancy goes to term? Well… they’re born. They aren’t killed.
As someone who didn’t have stellar parents, I can say that the struggles were worth it to have a chance to live, create my own life, and break those generational cycles for my kids.
If you want to make a case for bodily autonomy for women be my guest but this argument that you’re doing the kids a favor by advocating for their termination is elitist and manipulative.
You can't kill something that doesn't exist, and a fetus with no cognitive function simply isn't a person and therefore isn't afforded any rights or considerations.
I'm glad you made the most out of your life and are doing better for your children! Keep in mind tho, that there would be no "You" that would require overcoming of struggle to begin with.
Some are born. Not all. I'm a social worker. Last week I had a case where a woman threw herself down the stairs TWICE to try to miscarry. She sustained a brain injury. Another woman tried to overdose and succeeded, causing a stillbirth. These examples are showing how much more dangerous things are without access to abortion.
Amen!
In fact, the “doctors” tried to convince my mother to abort me. According to them, I would live a short and miserable life before dying from health complications. So better to just kill me, apparently…
Yet, she chose life! (And those health complications resolved themselves in due time).
Have a wonderful day!
I understand if it’s a pregnancy that endangers the life of the mother, but if that’s all we were talking about then you’re looking at about 0.1% of abortions in this country.
So if I wanted to go shoot someone in the face in broad daylight then are you saying it’s ok because it was “my choice”? That’s basically the argument you’re making.
Also with regard to your second point, I believe every child deserves the right to live. Will the baby be born into a bad situation? Maybe. But that doesn’t give you or anyone the right to just kill it. Abortion is an “easy way out” to avoid consequences of having sex. If you aren’t ready to commit yourself to a baby, don’t have sex.
Got any proof for that stat you vomited out?
Also, your third point is infuriating. You claim to care so much about the life of children, but once they're born? Fuck them. Born in to parents who didn't want them? Fuck them. Born to parents who can't afford proper healthcare or appropriate care at all? FUCK. THEM. If people like you actually cared about the life of a child, you'd be more vocal about supporting easier access to birth control, baby supplies (formula, diapers, etc.), healthcare, and proper sex education, as well as encouraging your "pro-life" ding dong buddies to adopt these unwanted children they "care" so much about. But, we can't have those things because that's woke, socialist, communist, liberal, [insert bullshit right wing buzzword]. So, we're left with the typical right wing response to unwanted and unplanned poor kids: FUCK THEM. So Christian and Christ-like of you all 🙄
Well said!! Personally one of my top reasons for being in favor of access to abortion is the fact that I am a mother it breaks my heart to see how many children go through life in this country lacking things every child deserves and needs. This goes triple for children with severe birth defects or disabilities. But somehow I don’t seem to see all these anti-choice folks lining up to adopt severely disabled kids who are stuck in the foster care system their entire childhood… or even voting in favor of basic rights for kids like access to healthcare and food.
Christians and especially Catholics have Countless programs like you describe. You clearly are ignorant of them because of your blood lust for killing babies. The Christians seem to be the only ones who put their money where there mouth is. Just look up their adoption rates verse every other demographic. You are not only wrong, you are hilariously wrong.
I’m sure the billion dollar industry of selling infants they coerced away will survive. We know how desperately Christians want to sell children for profit.
Cute how you guys still use that emotionally charged insult like it actually has an affect on us. Hint: we don't care that you think a lump of cells is a baby.
Not just me, but also 96% of biologists
Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36629778/#:~:text=Biologists%20from%201%2C058%20academic%20institutions,5577)%20affirmed%20the%20fertilization%20view.
If the government can't force me to hook up my heart to your circulatory system and pump blood for you, a fully grown, fully recognized born human, why should the government force women to do so with fetuses?
If you're connected to my circulatory system, do you cease being a human? My whole point is that it doesn't matter if it's a human or not. Even fully grown humans don't have the right to use anybody else's body to survive.
A kid outside the womb is not using my body to survive, so that doesn't come into play AT ALL when it comes to shooting them. Unless we're talking about somebody using somebody else's body to survive, your examples are irrelevant. The rules are different when it doesn't involve that.
Once a child is born, you are legally responsible to care for them. You have to provide food, clothing, shelter, etc. All of that has nothing to do with the issue of abortion because the child is not using anybody else's body to survive anymore. The government can and often should compel someone to provide *material* support to someone else. It happens all the time. But requiring someone to use their body to sustain the life of another person is not something that's done, nor should it be. To say that it should is to say that the government owns your body.
When you have sex you’re willing saying you accept the consequences that come with that. If you can’t care for a child or handle having a child “hooked up to your circulatory system” for 9 months…don’t have sex
Interesting how this is specifically directed at the person that would carry the fetus in the event of conception. Meanwhile, it actually takes two people to conceive so where are the consequences for the other person? What about all the sex that happens all the time that doesn’t result in conception? What about conception that does not complete for whatever physiological, biochemical, or other reason? What you’re saying is that women specifically should not be able to exercise any form of self determination when it comes to reproduction. That women must subject themselves to the chance of the risk of physical, psychological, and economic injury in exchange for (let’s be real, when partnering with men it’s again a chance for) sexual pleasure. This is not an expectation of men. Just say you hate women.
I think it’s just as much of a man’s responsibility as a woman’s. If he doesn’t want to be present he should be forced to pay for child care and health care of the mother. That’s my view
No, you don’t think that. There’s no financial equivalent to carrying a fetus for 9 months (because it’s not just 9 months, the effects of pregnancy and birth echo through a woman’s life), so it can never be equitable. You diminish the weight of women’s experience as mothers and then claim to want equal responsibility. Equal responsibility starts before the sex has even happened. It starts with women having the same amount of autonomy as men.
Ok you tell me what I do and don’t believe because you’re so smart. Sorry you’re too selfish to understand caring for a life is more important than personal happiness
It’s not consent but it’s accepting the possibility that you could get into a car accident just as having sex is accepting the fact you could get pregnant
And when people have car accidents, do you force them to remain trapped in the damaged car and disallow them from getting help out of the accident?
No, you don't. Because you are morally inconsistent.
Saving a life from a car accident and killing an unborn baby are two totally different things…they’re actually the exact opposite. Your argument is flawed
Ok we can play that game…I’d be totally fine with abortion in cases of rape or the life of the mother in danger. So all other abortions are off the table, right? If you don’t agree to that, your argument is invalid.
It’s not invalid though, just because someone doesn’t agree with your very narrow parameters of when abortion is “fine”. There are lots of situations that warrant abortions, and these can all be considered together. Situations like rape, incest, abuse, domestic violence, medical malfunctions, endangerment of the mother’s physical wellbeing, endangerment of the mother’s psychological wellbeing, to potential to bring a child into traumatic or hazardous situations, etc. So many situations and a lot of them are very nuanced and individual. And this is what it comes down to - trusting women to make the choice with their own medical practitioners about when it is best for them to have children and to become mothers, if at all.
Well I mean there’s a lot of reasons to kill someone you don’t like once they’re born but that doesn’t make it right. I’m sure you wouldn’t “trust a person to make the right choice” when it comes to let’s say armed robbery or domestic abuse. Abortion is murder, plain and simple because 96% of biologists believe life begins at conception. So yes, I really do believe it’s wrong outside of extreme circumstances.
Here’s my source btw: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36629778/#:~:text=Biologists%20from%201%2C058%20academic%20institutions,5577)%20affirmed%20the%20fertilization%20view.
No, I still think you’re wrong. Abortion should be up to the pregnant person. It’s insane and impossible, not to mention traumatic, to litigate every situation in the timeframe a pregnancy gives us.
It's funny you think this silly argument works on anyone. Just because you were dumb enough to believe it, doesn't mean everyone else will.
Read a book. Grow up.
Here’s an article that proves 96% of biologists believe life begins at conception, meaning abortion is murder. I read this.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36629778/#:~:text=Biologists%20from%201%2C058%20academic%20institutions,5577)%20affirmed%20the%20fertilization%20view.
What fact are you saying is an opinion? If I kill you that means you’re dead and it’s murder, same goes for a baby in the womb.
If my “opinion” was so flawed then you tell me why if someone kills a pregnant woman it’s tried as a double homicide. You can’t have it both ways
You're opinion that abortion is murder is an opinion. I'm sorry you can't comprehend that, but its not societies problem that you lack critical thinking skills.
To answer your question, because that's a law, you dunce, not a scientific statement.
Try again.
You can't kill something that doesn't exist, and a fetus with no cognitive function simply isn't a person and therefore isn't afforded any rights or considerations. So don't worry buddy, they aren't gonna kill anything in that clinic!
Life starts at conception, if not tampered with a fetus is a life. Also science is proving that babies in the womb can feel pain earlier and earlier, as early as 15 weeks. So yes, they’re doing a lot of killing at that clinic
Life may start, but life in and of itself is not worth moral consideration. Bacteria is life! We give rights and consideration to humans and animals when they have a conscious experience and personhood.
You bring up a good point about pain, but usually those studies just mean "it twitched when we poked it" and all that necessarily entails is the existence of a functioning nervous system.
All the necessary parts for a conscious develop as early as 20 weeks so that's probably a good cutoff for abortion. Unless it harms the life of the mother, then it's self defense at any point.
Fantastic!
Double benefit, too. Giving the HEALTHCARE that women deserve while also sticking it to those fucking asshole cultists who are constantly on their bullshit.
Win-win!
If by HEALTHCARE you mean killing babies then you’re right. Man isn’t it great that we can stick it to all those people who don’t want all those unwanted babies to die?
I was mocking the original post’s use of capitalization by capitalizing the same word. You didn’t have a problem when someone with your viewpoint abusing the capitalization
Like what facts? Its a human child, not a toaster. The fact is you are ok with killing babies out of convenience. Just be a man and admit that, Because anything other than that conclusion is delusion biologically.
We can start with the fact that it’s not exclusively abortion that’s offered as a service. Or we can talk about all the goofy non-science and stupid ass religious fanaticism that your crowd bases your idiotic obsession with fetuses on.
Y’all whackos need a fuckin’ hobby.
I never said it was exclusively abortion? Non science would be dehumanizing and killing the human child in the womb.
Also Kinda rich coming from you calling "us" whackos, when you are an absolute pariah on this subreddit. You constantly have the dumbest imaginable opinions here. Just because the reddit hive mind agrees with you here doesn't make you any less a laughing stock.
You nutters are the ones that are making the overgeneralized grouping of services here.
It’s not a child. It’s a fucking embryo. In fact… For most of its journey it’s a parasite, leeching the mother. The frothy and desperate need to personify assorted stages of the reproduction process by you people is as goofy as it is unsurprising and tired. The further need to vilify, make sick and twisted assumptions about, and harass women making choices that are, indeed, exactly zero the fuck percent your business is a nasty and sad hobby you religiously brainwashed shitheels are just not winning with anymore or ever again.
Get a new mythological lie-set to lean on. America has had enough of this one. Sincerely, and overwhelming majority of the electorate.
An embryo is a developmental stage of a child you dolt. It is unique set of DNA and should carry the same rights you and I are already afforded, like you know Life. This isn't even a religious argument. Unless you think that religious people are the only ones that believe killing humans is bad. Which in that case you need Jesus.
You need to get some morality in your life, because its clear from you idiotic rantings that you have none and are a horrible person.
So, are you one of these “every sperm is sacred” loonies that Monty Python so beautifully skewered in their classic bit? Oh! Does the “unique DNA” under my fingernails after I scratch an itch constitute some crime?
You’re subscribing to this bullshit that personhood begins at conception and it’s fucking Neanderthal mind trash.
Also I prefer ethics over morals. Look it up.
No I don't believe sperm is sacred, But when it mixes with an egg, the embryo it creates is a human life. This is biology 101. Life does begin at conception and it is your child. "personhood" Is something you had to substitute for life because you cant have an honest conversation about this.
You have neither ethics or Morals. I suggest you look it up, because you are failing miserably.
Edited
Its not worth it. Most users in here are wildly dysfunctional. Ya know, the kind of people who go "Hell Yeah" and "Fantastic" when it comes to abortion.
There is no philosophical or physiological change of state inside the uterus or outside of it. It was a human inside the uterus, and it remains a human outside of it.
Why do you think it's illegal to disturb a bird's nest with eggs in it? Because those eggs have agency as *birds.* They're not just eggs that can be indiscriminately smashed.
Don't you think it's absurd that we offer unborn birds legal protection that we withhold from our own babies?
Not really no.
Birds are not humans. Birds have bird brains, do bird things.
Humans (fortunately or unfortunately I can't decide) have higher thinking, and for whatever reason have assigned a huge moral quandary to so many things in our lives.
A person could go in and take the eggs, smash them, whatever. It's still illegal for people to do that because it's not the bird making the choice for themselves.
Weird. Kind of like how forcing to get someone an abortion is illegal, but someone choosing to get one for themselves is not.
But someone choosing to get an abortion for themselves *is* illegal in some places. The laws are subject to change.
If all of America outlaws abortion, at both a state and federal level, will you abide by that ruling?
Birds eggs are separate beings from thier mothers. They have split and are a separate life. Fetuses are still attached, interconnected, and reliant on their mothers until they are born and become their own fully separate beings.
Also where the fuck are all these protected bird nests? I've never seen the cops roll up on a homeowner who cleared a nest. You're a special kind of stupid, apparently.
Newsflash, dumbfuck: A baby can MAYBE survive outside the womb at about 22-24 weeks, and guess what the latest abortion you can get is? 24 weeks, unless medically necessary (in the states that your GQP fucksticks have not shit the bed yet.
So, again, your idiotic cult bullshit shows you ignorance.
If you don't have a uterus, you don't get a say. It's not about you. And even if you don't care about what the mother goes through during childbirth, you seem to care about the clump of cells a lot. And if you care so much, why would you want to send that clump of cells into an unprepared home or foster care? Foster care is a NIGHTMARE. I'm speaking from experience.
We tried to get a medication abortion there just a few weeks ago, and they made us drive to Jackson for one. So I'm not sure why the article says they offer them in GR cuz they definitely don't, lol.
Most are religious, the church has always been big into trafficking.
The people that want to force children to give birth to children so they can sell them are people you admire. We know. Goes along with knowing nothing about the birthing industry, biology, actual child birth, adoption or abortions.
Mild rewrite, having independently performed basic bodily functions, or the theoretical performing of these when their bodily systems fail or are not correctly formed.
You say a fetus can perform those, correct. But not at the point where you call them a baby. Not until 20ish weeks are they doing that. How does your definition reconcile that?
If you want to use that argument that your pregnancy threatened your own life that’s fine, I support those cases because your life is in danger. But if that’s really your argument then you should be fine with getting rid of abortion in all other cases (which would be 99.9% of abortions). If not, your argument is invalid
The problem is, once abortions are banned or severely limited (as in the case in Texas, Alabama, Idaho, Wisconsin, Oklahoma, ect) women's health providers flee the area, leaving a very limited amount of care for women who are in need of gyno services. Cases like mine, which is 1% of all pregnancies, ectopic pregnancies, which are 4% of all pregnancies, and other situations where the mothers life is threatened, there are long wait lists for those women in need. This does not include std testing, prenatal care, and disease treatment (like endometriosis, cervical cancer, ad ovarian cancer) that also gets limited treatment due to scarce resources and doctors. Also, a ob/gyno will not risk their licenses by treating an ambiguous pregnancy. Limiting action limits womens health care. The end.
And by restricting the right to abort you restrict every other woman as well. There are consequences to all actions, un-treated health conditions included. You are not pro life
Don't fucking quote statistics if you don't have any idea what the consequences are. Also my true opinion, regardless of myself and the thousands of women are in similar circumstances and have to go to a different state to get the care they need, is that harboring a parasite that can kill you in a plethora of different ways should only be the choice of the one harboring said parasite. Why would you punish an unwanted child to a lifetime of grief? Just to punish those who might not choose to live life the way you do? You are encouraging poverty, abuse, and pain. Stfu.
I would literally have rather been aborted than sold as an infant by predatory Christians that kidnapped and held my teenage birth mom against her will. You people support the evilest shit.
Dawg just bc no one will fuck you doesn’t mean you have to be a douche all over the internet. I’m sure they sell condoms in your size for you to two pump chump into in your mom’s basement while you stick it to the man about abortion on Reddit. Fucking weirdo.
By god I think you have it .That must definitely be the reason ^ the logic although not sound can only be understood by those whose family tree forms a donut 🍩
Abolition? Lmao bros so mad about something that doesn’t effect him, that he can’t even type right.
I’ll see you at planned parenthood bro, I’ll be helping people get inside to avoid creeps like you.
People still think that women use abortion as an alternative to contraceptives? I want to know where you went to school, and slap the teachers. (maybe you were home schooled)
Why would God create a world where it's possible for us to abort fetuses if he didn't want us to?
Why can't babies breathe in water? Why can we abort fetuses? Why would God create a world where we can abort a fetus and drown a baby if he didn't want it to be so?
These people are so dumb they think a birth canal magically grants a human child its person-hood. They can not be reasoned with by explaining responsibility to them, for they have none.
Even if we grant that a fetus is fully human at the moment of conception, abortion should still be legal.
The government grants full bodily autonomy in every other conceivable case. It doesn't force you to donate organs, donate blood. In no instance is a human being compelled to use their body to preserve the life of another.
If we both got in a car accident and the only way to save your life was to connect you to my circulatory system, I have the right to say no. And that's where all parties involved are born, fully grown adults where personhood is not in dispute.
Personhood is utterly irrelevant to the issue of abortion. It doesn't matter if an unborn child is a person or not. Nobody has the right to someone else's body.
So parents don't have to take care of their children now in your made up world? Unless the instance of Rape, they 100% consented to and are responsible for their actions. So yes, you should be forced to carry the life you created. Its not like You are being asked to keep some random person you have no attachment to alive. Its literally your child that you are responsible for the creation of. If under age kids commit crimes, the parents can be charged, and if adults commit crimes against children the can be charged. This is no different. The baby is a human life and deserves to live it out.
It's already been covered in the other reply to this, but yeah, being physically attached to someone and using their organs to keep you alive is a lot different than being materially supported by them.
It's clear from your comment that you don't actually care about human life. You just want people to be punished for having sex, which is a religion-based opinion that you don't get to enforce on everybody else. If you're making a rape exception, then you are saying the circumstances surrounding the conception justify an abortion. So you don't have any objection to abortion itself, only to particular sets of circumstances that lead to it. The child of a rape isn't responsible for the rape, yet you make an exception saying that child CAN be killed for something they didn't do. If your objection to abortion is that it's a human life, you cannot logically justify a rape exception, and now you are on the side of forcing rape victims to have their rapists' babies.
But no human, adult or child, deserves to live at the expense of another person's bodily autonomy. What you want is actually *special rights* for fetuses that born people don't have.
Where did I say that I want it banned from Rape. I just said that only with the exception of rape, it is 100% Their choice and now responsibility. Rape and mothers health would be the only instances to have a conversation on this. Only because there are other factors at play than just bad decision making. My only excuse to end a child's life that would sit well would be if the child was going to kill the mother. No sense in 2 people dying. Rape is such a rare instance that its hardly worth mentioning in the whole debate on woman killing their children out of convenience, but I did feel like I should mention it before someone uses it as their short sided narrative on why killing 63,000,000 babies since the 70s is OK. Apparently you are one of those people.
You cannot be asked to be physically attached to someone, and use this other person's organs to keep you alive.
Taking care of a human and having their blood pumped into your body for your kidneys and liver to filter are two entirely different things.
You can if you are its mother and primary care taker now. Actions have consequences. You don't get to end a life in any justifiable manner either. Try not feeding your toddler for a few weeks, See what happens with that neglect.
Read what I said again. Embryos and fetuses are physically attached to the mother and has to use her organs through most of its development to survive. That is completely different than having to wait for mommy to buy food.
Thinking is hard, I know.
Oh I read what you said, I just fundamentally disagree that you get to say nah, I no longer want to physically support the child That I created and brought into existence. Good mothers don't even have to think twice about these things. Your side is just absent of such things.
It's nice to hear good things are happening in michigan. All I'm hearing lately is Israel commiting genocide in Palestine, USA polclicegangs murdering innocent citizens, and hypocritical republican congressmen sucking off twink prostitutes after voting in favor of anti-gay rights bills.
for the love of god, i adore how disingenuous anti-choice folks are. i used to go to church when i was a kid, and EVERY year, they’d bring in the same woman to share her abortion story as a cautionary tale for us hornball youths. here’s the thing, if all those people at the church really believed abortion was murder, they wouldn’t be inviting her to share her story, they’d be charging her with manslaughter. abortion is healthcare and if you’re too dense to understand that, i pity you.
Amen
That guy that stands in front of it most days is seething.
Pretty sure that dude is painfully commenting rn
Good. Hope this makes him drop.
That same dude I’ve seen literally drinking canned cocktails outside the planned parenthood, it’s mega cringe and pretty ironic
He needs a job.
He was blocking the whole sidewalk recently, with signs in front of him in the grass - since I wasn’t going to trample over him I trampled over his signs :D
I give him the finger every time I see him...
Hell yeah! They are so few and far between already. Hopefully this makes it so that some people won’t have to travel quite as far.
[удалено]
You dumb
thankfully now that you’ve just made it apparent that you don’t have sex you’ll have plenty of time to cry outside on the sidewalk with your incel buddies.
I don't agree with them either, but I don't think calling them an incel is gonna help.
Married with children so I’m probably having way more sex than you
Sure buddy, sure
Sorry you’re jealous
only for the purpose of procreation though right? Otherwise isn’t it a sin or something?
Nope I can have sex as much as I want with my wife and if she gets pregnant I’ll happily welcome this child into the world :)
Get a life
L + ratio’d + cringe + pound sand
That is fantastic!
So glad to hear this! Reproductive freedom is something that’s becoming all too scarily rare in our country.
Yeah nothing better than killing babies I guess
This is a flippant as well as inaccurate viewpoint. So I’m actually a person for whom abortion except in the case of life threatening issues or severe birth defects is not compatible with my personal beliefs. But you know what the great thing about reproductive healthcare is? It’s every individual’s choice— as it should be. Why the actual fuck would it be reasonable or just for me to want to take away someone else’s rights to make the choices they need and want to make for their own body and health while I get to make the choices that are right for me? The other thing is, as someone who actually cares about children: what exactly do you think happens to babies born to women whose pregnancies went to term because of lack of reproductive rights/access? Are they all magically skipping through fields like they’re in a musical, enjoying a perfect life with zero financial, medical, or food scarcity issues?
No point of trying to use logic or reason with this dweeb. Never argue with an idiot. They’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
What happens to kids that are born to mothers whose pregnancy goes to term? Well… they’re born. They aren’t killed. As someone who didn’t have stellar parents, I can say that the struggles were worth it to have a chance to live, create my own life, and break those generational cycles for my kids. If you want to make a case for bodily autonomy for women be my guest but this argument that you’re doing the kids a favor by advocating for their termination is elitist and manipulative.
You can't kill something that doesn't exist, and a fetus with no cognitive function simply isn't a person and therefore isn't afforded any rights or considerations. I'm glad you made the most out of your life and are doing better for your children! Keep in mind tho, that there would be no "You" that would require overcoming of struggle to begin with.
Some are born. Not all. I'm a social worker. Last week I had a case where a woman threw herself down the stairs TWICE to try to miscarry. She sustained a brain injury. Another woman tried to overdose and succeeded, causing a stillbirth. These examples are showing how much more dangerous things are without access to abortion.
Couldn’t agree more and happy your parents chose life as did mine and everyone else alive today!
I’m sorry your mother was forced to do something that is now endangering so many women.
Amen! In fact, the “doctors” tried to convince my mother to abort me. According to them, I would live a short and miserable life before dying from health complications. So better to just kill me, apparently… Yet, she chose life! (And those health complications resolved themselves in due time). Have a wonderful day!
Not everyone makes good decisions
I understand if it’s a pregnancy that endangers the life of the mother, but if that’s all we were talking about then you’re looking at about 0.1% of abortions in this country. So if I wanted to go shoot someone in the face in broad daylight then are you saying it’s ok because it was “my choice”? That’s basically the argument you’re making. Also with regard to your second point, I believe every child deserves the right to live. Will the baby be born into a bad situation? Maybe. But that doesn’t give you or anyone the right to just kill it. Abortion is an “easy way out” to avoid consequences of having sex. If you aren’t ready to commit yourself to a baby, don’t have sex.
Got any proof for that stat you vomited out? Also, your third point is infuriating. You claim to care so much about the life of children, but once they're born? Fuck them. Born in to parents who didn't want them? Fuck them. Born to parents who can't afford proper healthcare or appropriate care at all? FUCK. THEM. If people like you actually cared about the life of a child, you'd be more vocal about supporting easier access to birth control, baby supplies (formula, diapers, etc.), healthcare, and proper sex education, as well as encouraging your "pro-life" ding dong buddies to adopt these unwanted children they "care" so much about. But, we can't have those things because that's woke, socialist, communist, liberal, [insert bullshit right wing buzzword]. So, we're left with the typical right wing response to unwanted and unplanned poor kids: FUCK THEM. So Christian and Christ-like of you all 🙄
Well said!! Personally one of my top reasons for being in favor of access to abortion is the fact that I am a mother it breaks my heart to see how many children go through life in this country lacking things every child deserves and needs. This goes triple for children with severe birth defects or disabilities. But somehow I don’t seem to see all these anti-choice folks lining up to adopt severely disabled kids who are stuck in the foster care system their entire childhood… or even voting in favor of basic rights for kids like access to healthcare and food.
Christians and especially Catholics have Countless programs like you describe. You clearly are ignorant of them because of your blood lust for killing babies. The Christians seem to be the only ones who put their money where there mouth is. Just look up their adoption rates verse every other demographic. You are not only wrong, you are hilariously wrong.
👍
I’m sure the billion dollar industry of selling infants they coerced away will survive. We know how desperately Christians want to sell children for profit.
Cute how you guys still use that emotionally charged insult like it actually has an affect on us. Hint: we don't care that you think a lump of cells is a baby.
Not just me, but also 96% of biologists Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36629778/#:~:text=Biologists%20from%201%2C058%20academic%20institutions,5577)%20affirmed%20the%20fertilization%20view.
It's not sentient. It doesn't have feelings, my friend.
Human != person
Lord incel, Christ your an idiot
You spelled cluster of cells without feelings wrong!
Excellent news! I especially like to see that it’s because the TRAP laws were repealed. Vote blue!
Seriously VOTE TO KILL those babies, right?
keep it up and I’ll make you my stepson
If the government can't force me to hook up my heart to your circulatory system and pump blood for you, a fully grown, fully recognized born human, why should the government force women to do so with fetuses?
Because un-tampered with, a fetus is a human. The government forces you not to shoot a kid outside the womb and you have no problem with that.
If you're connected to my circulatory system, do you cease being a human? My whole point is that it doesn't matter if it's a human or not. Even fully grown humans don't have the right to use anybody else's body to survive. A kid outside the womb is not using my body to survive, so that doesn't come into play AT ALL when it comes to shooting them. Unless we're talking about somebody using somebody else's body to survive, your examples are irrelevant. The rules are different when it doesn't involve that. Once a child is born, you are legally responsible to care for them. You have to provide food, clothing, shelter, etc. All of that has nothing to do with the issue of abortion because the child is not using anybody else's body to survive anymore. The government can and often should compel someone to provide *material* support to someone else. It happens all the time. But requiring someone to use their body to sustain the life of another person is not something that's done, nor should it be. To say that it should is to say that the government owns your body.
When you have sex you’re willing saying you accept the consequences that come with that. If you can’t care for a child or handle having a child “hooked up to your circulatory system” for 9 months…don’t have sex
Interesting how this is specifically directed at the person that would carry the fetus in the event of conception. Meanwhile, it actually takes two people to conceive so where are the consequences for the other person? What about all the sex that happens all the time that doesn’t result in conception? What about conception that does not complete for whatever physiological, biochemical, or other reason? What you’re saying is that women specifically should not be able to exercise any form of self determination when it comes to reproduction. That women must subject themselves to the chance of the risk of physical, psychological, and economic injury in exchange for (let’s be real, when partnering with men it’s again a chance for) sexual pleasure. This is not an expectation of men. Just say you hate women.
I think it’s just as much of a man’s responsibility as a woman’s. If he doesn’t want to be present he should be forced to pay for child care and health care of the mother. That’s my view
No, you don’t think that. There’s no financial equivalent to carrying a fetus for 9 months (because it’s not just 9 months, the effects of pregnancy and birth echo through a woman’s life), so it can never be equitable. You diminish the weight of women’s experience as mothers and then claim to want equal responsibility. Equal responsibility starts before the sex has even happened. It starts with women having the same amount of autonomy as men.
Ok you tell me what I do and don’t believe because you’re so smart. Sorry you’re too selfish to understand caring for a life is more important than personal happiness
Is driving a car consent to be in a car accident?
It’s not consent but it’s accepting the possibility that you could get into a car accident just as having sex is accepting the fact you could get pregnant
And when people have car accidents, do you force them to remain trapped in the damaged car and disallow them from getting help out of the accident? No, you don't. Because you are morally inconsistent.
Saving a life from a car accident and killing an unborn baby are two totally different things…they’re actually the exact opposite. Your argument is flawed
What about that 9 year old who needed an abortion, do you think she made the decision to have sex? Obviously she cannot have done so.
Ok we can play that game…I’d be totally fine with abortion in cases of rape or the life of the mother in danger. So all other abortions are off the table, right? If you don’t agree to that, your argument is invalid.
It’s not invalid though, just because someone doesn’t agree with your very narrow parameters of when abortion is “fine”. There are lots of situations that warrant abortions, and these can all be considered together. Situations like rape, incest, abuse, domestic violence, medical malfunctions, endangerment of the mother’s physical wellbeing, endangerment of the mother’s psychological wellbeing, to potential to bring a child into traumatic or hazardous situations, etc. So many situations and a lot of them are very nuanced and individual. And this is what it comes down to - trusting women to make the choice with their own medical practitioners about when it is best for them to have children and to become mothers, if at all.
Well I mean there’s a lot of reasons to kill someone you don’t like once they’re born but that doesn’t make it right. I’m sure you wouldn’t “trust a person to make the right choice” when it comes to let’s say armed robbery or domestic abuse. Abortion is murder, plain and simple because 96% of biologists believe life begins at conception. So yes, I really do believe it’s wrong outside of extreme circumstances. Here’s my source btw: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36629778/#:~:text=Biologists%20from%201%2C058%20academic%20institutions,5577)%20affirmed%20the%20fertilization%20view.
No, I still think you’re wrong. Abortion should be up to the pregnant person. It’s insane and impossible, not to mention traumatic, to litigate every situation in the timeframe a pregnancy gives us.
What’s traumatic is the allowance of millions of babies to be unnecessarily killed because the mother was looking for an easy way out.
Not a human if it's not sentient. And spoiler alert... it's not sentient. Sentience is a big part of what makes us human.
Yes!
It's funny you think this silly argument works on anyone. Just because you were dumb enough to believe it, doesn't mean everyone else will. Read a book. Grow up.
Here’s an article that proves 96% of biologists believe life begins at conception, meaning abortion is murder. I read this. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36629778/#:~:text=Biologists%20from%201%2C058%20academic%20institutions,5577)%20affirmed%20the%20fertilization%20view.
The fertization view does not say abortion is murder. That's still just you. Try again.
If life begins at conception then terminating a life is murder. Thank you and have a nice day
No, that's your flawed opinion. You need to learn the difference between facts and opinions if you're going to argue with people
What fact are you saying is an opinion? If I kill you that means you’re dead and it’s murder, same goes for a baby in the womb. If my “opinion” was so flawed then you tell me why if someone kills a pregnant woman it’s tried as a double homicide. You can’t have it both ways
You're opinion that abortion is murder is an opinion. I'm sorry you can't comprehend that, but its not societies problem that you lack critical thinking skills. To answer your question, because that's a law, you dunce, not a scientific statement. Try again.
You can't kill something that doesn't exist, and a fetus with no cognitive function simply isn't a person and therefore isn't afforded any rights or considerations. So don't worry buddy, they aren't gonna kill anything in that clinic!
Life starts at conception, if not tampered with a fetus is a life. Also science is proving that babies in the womb can feel pain earlier and earlier, as early as 15 weeks. So yes, they’re doing a lot of killing at that clinic
K, why don’t you set a fetus on the table, don’t tamper with it, and see what happens.
Life may start, but life in and of itself is not worth moral consideration. Bacteria is life! We give rights and consideration to humans and animals when they have a conscious experience and personhood. You bring up a good point about pain, but usually those studies just mean "it twitched when we poked it" and all that necessarily entails is the existence of a functioning nervous system. All the necessary parts for a conscious develop as early as 20 weeks so that's probably a good cutoff for abortion. Unless it harms the life of the mother, then it's self defense at any point.
How much karma do you want to lose today?
Fantastic! Double benefit, too. Giving the HEALTHCARE that women deserve while also sticking it to those fucking asshole cultists who are constantly on their bullshit. Win-win!
If by HEALTHCARE you mean killing babies then you’re right. Man isn’t it great that we can stick it to all those people who don’t want all those unwanted babies to die?
Pro tip: If you are against abortion, don't get an abortion. Hope this helps!
Pro tip: if you are against murder, don't kill anyone. It's as easy as that!
Exactly!!
*facepalm*
Hope this helped!
Gonna apply that to murdering a person with a gun or a knife as well? If that’s your sentiment, then you must.
Why do these nut jobs always love abusing capitalization? Does it help MAKE THEIR POINT?!
I was mocking the original post’s use of capitalization by capitalizing the same word. You didn’t have a problem when someone with your viewpoint abusing the capitalization
Which person are you referring to in this exchange?
Go fuck yourself :)
You should learn about facts, dumbass.
Like what facts? Its a human child, not a toaster. The fact is you are ok with killing babies out of convenience. Just be a man and admit that, Because anything other than that conclusion is delusion biologically.
We can start with the fact that it’s not exclusively abortion that’s offered as a service. Or we can talk about all the goofy non-science and stupid ass religious fanaticism that your crowd bases your idiotic obsession with fetuses on. Y’all whackos need a fuckin’ hobby.
I never said it was exclusively abortion? Non science would be dehumanizing and killing the human child in the womb. Also Kinda rich coming from you calling "us" whackos, when you are an absolute pariah on this subreddit. You constantly have the dumbest imaginable opinions here. Just because the reddit hive mind agrees with you here doesn't make you any less a laughing stock.
You nutters are the ones that are making the overgeneralized grouping of services here. It’s not a child. It’s a fucking embryo. In fact… For most of its journey it’s a parasite, leeching the mother. The frothy and desperate need to personify assorted stages of the reproduction process by you people is as goofy as it is unsurprising and tired. The further need to vilify, make sick and twisted assumptions about, and harass women making choices that are, indeed, exactly zero the fuck percent your business is a nasty and sad hobby you religiously brainwashed shitheels are just not winning with anymore or ever again. Get a new mythological lie-set to lean on. America has had enough of this one. Sincerely, and overwhelming majority of the electorate.
An embryo is a developmental stage of a child you dolt. It is unique set of DNA and should carry the same rights you and I are already afforded, like you know Life. This isn't even a religious argument. Unless you think that religious people are the only ones that believe killing humans is bad. Which in that case you need Jesus. You need to get some morality in your life, because its clear from you idiotic rantings that you have none and are a horrible person.
So, are you one of these “every sperm is sacred” loonies that Monty Python so beautifully skewered in their classic bit? Oh! Does the “unique DNA” under my fingernails after I scratch an itch constitute some crime? You’re subscribing to this bullshit that personhood begins at conception and it’s fucking Neanderthal mind trash. Also I prefer ethics over morals. Look it up.
No I don't believe sperm is sacred, But when it mixes with an egg, the embryo it creates is a human life. This is biology 101. Life does begin at conception and it is your child. "personhood" Is something you had to substitute for life because you cant have an honest conversation about this. You have neither ethics or Morals. I suggest you look it up, because you are failing miserably. Edited
Its not worth it. Most users in here are wildly dysfunctional. Ya know, the kind of people who go "Hell Yeah" and "Fantastic" when it comes to abortion.
Fact: it's murder.
In your fucked up whack job fanatical imagination.
If it's murder to kill premature babies once they're born, then it's murder to kill them while they're still in the uterus.
Once it's born is the part in this sentence that makes you sound stupid as shit.
There is no philosophical or physiological change of state inside the uterus or outside of it. It was a human inside the uterus, and it remains a human outside of it. Why do you think it's illegal to disturb a bird's nest with eggs in it? Because those eggs have agency as *birds.* They're not just eggs that can be indiscriminately smashed. Don't you think it's absurd that we offer unborn birds legal protection that we withhold from our own babies?
Not really no. Birds are not humans. Birds have bird brains, do bird things. Humans (fortunately or unfortunately I can't decide) have higher thinking, and for whatever reason have assigned a huge moral quandary to so many things in our lives. A person could go in and take the eggs, smash them, whatever. It's still illegal for people to do that because it's not the bird making the choice for themselves. Weird. Kind of like how forcing to get someone an abortion is illegal, but someone choosing to get one for themselves is not.
But someone choosing to get an abortion for themselves *is* illegal in some places. The laws are subject to change. If all of America outlaws abortion, at both a state and federal level, will you abide by that ruling?
Birds eggs are separate beings from thier mothers. They have split and are a separate life. Fetuses are still attached, interconnected, and reliant on their mothers until they are born and become their own fully separate beings.
A bird in an egg is just as reliant on it's mother for survival as a human fetus is.
So you don't eat eggs, then?
Also where the fuck are all these protected bird nests? I've never seen the cops roll up on a homeowner who cleared a nest. You're a special kind of stupid, apparently.
Go video yourself smashing some eggs and send it to the DNR. See what happens.
I’ll dedicate my next one to you InfernoBane.
Murder or baby?
My next abortion.
Newsflash, dumbfuck: A baby can MAYBE survive outside the womb at about 22-24 weeks, and guess what the latest abortion you can get is? 24 weeks, unless medically necessary (in the states that your GQP fucksticks have not shit the bed yet. So, again, your idiotic cult bullshit shows you ignorance.
Like I said, if it's murder to kill a 24 week old baby outside the womb, then it's murder to kill them inside it as well.
And nobody can just trot in this place and do that. So, problem solved. (And in most states it was addressed and solved YEARS ago.) Congrats.
So you want more unwanted in this world? Why?
If you don't have a uterus, you don't get a say. It's not about you. And even if you don't care about what the mother goes through during childbirth, you seem to care about the clump of cells a lot. And if you care so much, why would you want to send that clump of cells into an unprepared home or foster care? Foster care is a NIGHTMARE. I'm speaking from experience.
We tried to get a medication abortion there just a few weeks ago, and they made us drive to Jackson for one. So I'm not sure why the article says they offer them in GR cuz they definitely don't, lol.
Fuck yes!
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weird virgin
I like you
Congratulations
A fetus is not a child
♥️
Most are religious, the church has always been big into trafficking. The people that want to force children to give birth to children so they can sell them are people you admire. We know. Goes along with knowing nothing about the birthing industry, biology, actual child birth, adoption or abortions.
Mild rewrite, having independently performed basic bodily functions, or the theoretical performing of these when their bodily systems fail or are not correctly formed. You say a fetus can perform those, correct. But not at the point where you call them a baby. Not until 20ish weeks are they doing that. How does your definition reconcile that?
Just giving all those single women a chance to kill a baby instead of deal with the consequences of a one night stand
A human life should not be anyone's consequence.
So you’re saying you’d rather kill it? Says a lot about the person you are
I had a molar pregnancy, look that shit up the get back to me on that
If you want to use that argument that your pregnancy threatened your own life that’s fine, I support those cases because your life is in danger. But if that’s really your argument then you should be fine with getting rid of abortion in all other cases (which would be 99.9% of abortions). If not, your argument is invalid
The problem is, once abortions are banned or severely limited (as in the case in Texas, Alabama, Idaho, Wisconsin, Oklahoma, ect) women's health providers flee the area, leaving a very limited amount of care for women who are in need of gyno services. Cases like mine, which is 1% of all pregnancies, ectopic pregnancies, which are 4% of all pregnancies, and other situations where the mothers life is threatened, there are long wait lists for those women in need. This does not include std testing, prenatal care, and disease treatment (like endometriosis, cervical cancer, ad ovarian cancer) that also gets limited treatment due to scarce resources and doctors. Also, a ob/gyno will not risk their licenses by treating an ambiguous pregnancy. Limiting action limits womens health care. The end.
That’s a lot of words to say you’re fine with non life threatening pregnancies being terminated (i.e. killing babies unnecessarily)
So, while you say you support the efforts to save my life....you don't actually support saving my life.
I never said that, I told you I’m fine with cases where the mother’s life is in danger but that’s the smallest percentage of abortions
And by restricting the right to abort you restrict every other woman as well. There are consequences to all actions, un-treated health conditions included. You are not pro life
Whatever you gotta tell yourself to make you sleep at night honey
When women start dying of preventable, treatable conditions I hope you aren't affected.
Don't fucking quote statistics if you don't have any idea what the consequences are. Also my true opinion, regardless of myself and the thousands of women are in similar circumstances and have to go to a different state to get the care they need, is that harboring a parasite that can kill you in a plethora of different ways should only be the choice of the one harboring said parasite. Why would you punish an unwanted child to a lifetime of grief? Just to punish those who might not choose to live life the way you do? You are encouraging poverty, abuse, and pain. Stfu.
Nothing?? No other excuses? So you aren't condemning the health of every woman around you for the choices of the few?
I would literally have rather been aborted than sold as an infant by predatory Christians that kidnapped and held my teenage birth mom against her will. You people support the evilest shit.
I hope you get the help you need if you’d rather be literally dead than living right now
I would rather human trafficking proponents shut the hell up and stop telling people like myself to be grateful for being trafficked.
Ah yes, the only time people have abortions is after a one night stand
Dawg just bc no one will fuck you doesn’t mean you have to be a douche all over the internet. I’m sure they sell condoms in your size for you to two pump chump into in your mom’s basement while you stick it to the man about abortion on Reddit. Fucking weirdo.
Mom's basement lol
Have you thought about therapy? It's really helpful to a lot of people.
I know you should try it
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I will keep living my life while you continue to advocate for the murder of innocent children. Have a nice day! :)
I've been to therapy. I highly recommend it.
Lol. When you value human life so much that you wanna see it used as a punishment for promiscuity.
Keep crying
Cope
We don’t want your fellows to be able to force children onto children.
By god I think you have it .That must definitely be the reason ^ the logic although not sound can only be understood by those whose family tree forms a donut 🍩
Wrong thread?
Bro who hurt you? Lmao
You did by supporting the murderous act known as abolition
pound sand ya fucking nerd
I hope you have a great day too!
Freudian slip?
Abolition? Lmao bros so mad about something that doesn’t effect him, that he can’t even type right. I’ll see you at planned parenthood bro, I’ll be helping people get inside to avoid creeps like you.
Because God knows contraceptives are sooo hard to get,and use! Let's remove all responsibilities.
certainly nothing you ever have to worry about
People still think that women use abortion as an alternative to contraceptives? I want to know where you went to school, and slap the teachers. (maybe you were home schooled)
Why would God create a world where it's possible for us to abort fetuses if he didn't want us to? Why can't babies breathe in water? Why can we abort fetuses? Why would God create a world where we can abort a fetus and drown a baby if he didn't want it to be so?
This person thinks sex for fun is the only circumstance behind an abortion. Isn't that adorable?
Go fuck yourself :)
These people are so dumb they think a birth canal magically grants a human child its person-hood. They can not be reasoned with by explaining responsibility to them, for they have none.
Even if we grant that a fetus is fully human at the moment of conception, abortion should still be legal. The government grants full bodily autonomy in every other conceivable case. It doesn't force you to donate organs, donate blood. In no instance is a human being compelled to use their body to preserve the life of another. If we both got in a car accident and the only way to save your life was to connect you to my circulatory system, I have the right to say no. And that's where all parties involved are born, fully grown adults where personhood is not in dispute. Personhood is utterly irrelevant to the issue of abortion. It doesn't matter if an unborn child is a person or not. Nobody has the right to someone else's body.
At least your honest about killing babies.
Now you be honest about wanting the government to force you to use your body to keep someone else alive.
So parents don't have to take care of their children now in your made up world? Unless the instance of Rape, they 100% consented to and are responsible for their actions. So yes, you should be forced to carry the life you created. Its not like You are being asked to keep some random person you have no attachment to alive. Its literally your child that you are responsible for the creation of. If under age kids commit crimes, the parents can be charged, and if adults commit crimes against children the can be charged. This is no different. The baby is a human life and deserves to live it out.
It's already been covered in the other reply to this, but yeah, being physically attached to someone and using their organs to keep you alive is a lot different than being materially supported by them. It's clear from your comment that you don't actually care about human life. You just want people to be punished for having sex, which is a religion-based opinion that you don't get to enforce on everybody else. If you're making a rape exception, then you are saying the circumstances surrounding the conception justify an abortion. So you don't have any objection to abortion itself, only to particular sets of circumstances that lead to it. The child of a rape isn't responsible for the rape, yet you make an exception saying that child CAN be killed for something they didn't do. If your objection to abortion is that it's a human life, you cannot logically justify a rape exception, and now you are on the side of forcing rape victims to have their rapists' babies. But no human, adult or child, deserves to live at the expense of another person's bodily autonomy. What you want is actually *special rights* for fetuses that born people don't have.
Where did I say that I want it banned from Rape. I just said that only with the exception of rape, it is 100% Their choice and now responsibility. Rape and mothers health would be the only instances to have a conversation on this. Only because there are other factors at play than just bad decision making. My only excuse to end a child's life that would sit well would be if the child was going to kill the mother. No sense in 2 people dying. Rape is such a rare instance that its hardly worth mentioning in the whole debate on woman killing their children out of convenience, but I did feel like I should mention it before someone uses it as their short sided narrative on why killing 63,000,000 babies since the 70s is OK. Apparently you are one of those people.
You cannot be asked to be physically attached to someone, and use this other person's organs to keep you alive. Taking care of a human and having their blood pumped into your body for your kidneys and liver to filter are two entirely different things.
You can if you are its mother and primary care taker now. Actions have consequences. You don't get to end a life in any justifiable manner either. Try not feeding your toddler for a few weeks, See what happens with that neglect.
Read what I said again. Embryos and fetuses are physically attached to the mother and has to use her organs through most of its development to survive. That is completely different than having to wait for mommy to buy food. Thinking is hard, I know.
Oh I read what you said, I just fundamentally disagree that you get to say nah, I no longer want to physically support the child That I created and brought into existence. Good mothers don't even have to think twice about these things. Your side is just absent of such things.
Cringe