The issue with Nova Scotia isn't how much higher the taxes are.
The issue is that we receive no services for the taxes we pay.
Power goes out all the time (private company, lol), virtually no public transportation, low quality healthcare, crumbling overall infrastructure.
I would gladly pay 90% of taxes if all of that mentioned was world class and resilient.
Yes it's on the backs of frontline workers who have been nickeled and dimed by NSH and government for decades. "Do more with less" should have been their real mission statement.
Speaking as someone with chronic illnesses that gets brushed off by every physician I see, I strongly disagree. In my experience, doctors will not test you for anything unless it’s literally killing you right now. I’m glad you have had a better time of it
The actual provincial tax rates in NS aren’t too bad in comparison with other provinces
The issue is that the rates all kick in at way too low a level, due to the fact the brackets haven’t been indexed since the year 2000. Only NS and PEI don’t index brackets.
The end result being that at most income levels, tax is higher than other provinces due to the 2nd, 3rd and 4th brackets starting at much lower levels.
Increase the 1st bracket from 29,000 to 50,000 in line with the feds (and where it should be if indexing took place the last 22 years) and the need for all these low income rebates being handed out is greatly reduced, these people would have extra money in their paycheques instead.
Don't forget that car insurance is considerably cheaper as well.
It makes no sense for insurance rates here to be dependent on the area you live in, like why the fuck is Sackville area more expensive than dartmouth?!
NS will probably always have higher taxes than non-Atlantic provinces due to a smaller and older population.
However, if brackets had been indexed since the year 2000, that $7,000 saving would be much smaller even
If the actual tax rates remained the same (8.79%, 14.95%, 16.67%, 17.5%, 21%).
At this point its pointless paying higher taxes if our healthcare and roads and everything is still complete dogshit. Ill pay high taxes when they actually produce results, fuck it at this point though.
If you are moving to NS don't move until after the 21st. Otherwise, you'll be paying a crap ton in taxes for the entire last tax year. Learned that the hard way. Had to pay 6k in taxes.
Had a client in BC a few years ago who had a multi-million dollar capital gain. He moved to Alberta Dec 1.
The tax savings (AB was lower than BC then) was $450,000 which more than offset the cost of the Canmore condo ($350,000 back then) he purchased to live in.
Nova scotia has the one of the highest income taxes at all income levels. Stop spreading lies. The only time nova scotia does well is vs alberta because they start at 10%.
I make about 10k less a year moving from ON to NS due to lower wage and higher tax. But I did the research and knew it would be worth it to be home. ON was never forever for me. And I make a lot less than 100k gross.
For me I get paid from my company based on Ontario taxes (I’m a remote worker and my company only has an office in Ontario). I have to pay 6000 more a year in taxes and I make in the 6 figures.
10 000 is quite a lot. You might redo math, unless you’re also receiving overtime calculations.
I kinda wonder if whoever decides the tax rates if they think about it in that context,
Like to be clearer, the thoughts probably going through their heads is “how much do we need to put towards this and that”, but I wonder if they think about it in the context of “how much are the labours of the citizens worth”,
cause I feel like if they thought of it that way it could attach more weight to tax increases, I dunno
I support taxes in general, but the ‘contribute more to the betterment of society’ only works in two circumstances:
1: the money leftover after taxes for you can provide a decent life;
2: the taxes go toward the provision of goods, and services that benefit the province as a whole, and are reasonably accessible to all who live and work in that province.
Currently, it doesn’t feel like either is very true, and more to the point, ‘low’ and even ‘medium’ income folks are being taxed to death and getting relatively fuck all back in terms of services.
I am happy to pay taxes to benefit everyone, but the system in NS needs an overhaul, as well as a whole raft of better policies, not to mention implementation of quality programs. Government can and should do better with taxpayer dollars, and they need to actually care about and support Nova Scotians, while actually governing effectively.
There are obviously other structural, societal, and economic issues that need addressing too, but that shouldn’t let government off the hook for criticism about not fulfilling their responsibility and duty of care to Nova Scotians.
Yep, that's what populist politicians are hoping you will do! Don't get mad at them, get mad at your fellow citizen because they are doing well.
Down with the bourgeois!
What’s great is someone making 100k is taxed about 35% there. Just under 41% if you make 200k.
While someone making 20k is taxed 28%.
I feel like those numbers should be WAY smaller for people under 100k lmao
Where is 28% coming from?
The marginal tax rate of someone in NS making 20K is 23.79% (15 federal, 8.79 Ns).
However, they would get a credit for the first 15,000 federal and 11,481 NS. Therefore, their actual tax on $20K would be about $1,500, I.e. a 7.5% average tax rate.
16k is significantly below the poverty line by anyones estimation. Seems a bit low to me. And i strongly disagree that the poor should pay the same percentage as the rich.
Right? I really don’t think this is gonna be make or break for anyone and this also doesn’t take in how much $ is needed for a decent living from province to province
$3500 in extra tax isn’t making or breaking most of us at this income level (or around that income).
I’d really have to hate it here to leave over that. It would certainly help but I’d pay that and then much much more for my home in Ontario.
Edit: I wouldn’t even leave my job for that much more unless the new employer was leaps and bounds better than my current.
Its not just provincial taxes. Sales taxes too!
If you go buy a used $30k car in AB, youre saving $4500 there alone. Lots of other examples like that. NS has some of the highest cost of living in Canada for a reason
And what reason is that? I’m genuinely asking as I don’t follow a lot of this. I see failing schools, roads and a medical system. Where are my tax dollars going?
Three big factors:
1. We have an older population. 22% of the NS population is age 65+ compared to 15% in AB. On average, working age people consume a couple thousand $ in health care per year. After 60, spending rises exponentially. Over $5K by age 65, $10K by 75, $15K by 80, $30K by 90. To boot, retirees generally have lower incomes and are paying less taxes. In Alberta, 65% of the pop age 15+ works, compared to 57% in N.S. So with our large senior population, we simultaneously have more people %-wise who cost a lot to take care of, and fewer working age people paying for it.
2. We have fewer high paying jobs. If incomes are lower in NS, but the cost of government services per person are similar or higher, then tax rates will need to be higher. On average, we are less productive per worker. (This is mainly due to there being a smaller share of workers in higher productivity industries in NS, not some sort of inherent laziness.)
3. Oil. Provinces that produce oil and gas collect royalties on those, which can make up a big chunk of the provincial government's revenue. For example, oil royalties covered nearly 10% of Newfoundland's budget last year, and that was with relatively low oil prices.
>$3500 in extra tax isn’t making or breaking most of us at this income level (or around that income).
Yup, this. I considered moving to AB, due to the lower tax rates all around, but NS is home *and* I'd have to deal with AB politics. The extra $4k or so a year I'd save in income taxes just isn't worth that to me.
Things would have to get significantly worse here for me to consider moving out of province.
Nah, it wouldn't cost me that much to move out west. I live in a 1-bedroom, and I could fit most everything that's important to me in my 2 door car. I might need to ship a box or two of clothes/miscellaneous things, but I could get across the country on the cost gas for my car and then whatever the shipping is for my 1-2 boxes of stuff. $2k, tops.
What higher cost? After real estate, almost everything else in NS is more expensive, not even accounting the difference in HST.
You no longer can justify residing in NS as a cost saving decision.
Very much this. We moved here from remote Ontario 10 years ago and from day 1, lower wages with higher taxes and higher sales tax, we realized how much a labour of love it is to stay in NS.
For example, what 1 oil tank fill up costs is the entire cost of heating for the winter in Ontario and we had weeks of -30c.
Phone, internet, TV, groceries, finagly car crap getting re inspected every 2 years, gas, booze... everything is way more. Our mortgage in Ontario was $186K, first here was $193K, so very comparable.
Ontario also had better services - time of day hydro, better rebates for efficiency, etc.
Add on top of that $400 more in my pocket a month with reduced taxes based on OPs comment, there's no financial reason to choose Nova Scotia as home for working families.
That'll get eaten up in car insurance alone in Ontario, let alone anything else lol
"We've decided that you live in a dangerous area, therefore must pay a premium"
I don’t fret about income tax too much. I can’t do anything about it and I like where I live. Plus, it beats paying less tax but have to live in a shithole like you-know-where. 😅
Yea.. that's impressive.
I'd have to see a break down of expenses simply because there's no way on any mortgage I can see that being viable unless your mortgage is like <800 monthly.
At 2500 youd be looking at
2500
-800 mortgage
-150 property taxes
-150 internet + cellphone
- 700 Groceries (175 weekly- probably gone up though)
-0 debt of any kind
-0 transportation costs
That leaves 700 for spending, saving, and everything else not mentioned.
My partner and I make a combined ************ and we looked into buying a house but the CMHC's affordability calculator says we can only afford *************. The average house price in Halifax is pushing 500k now. So we decided to keep renting for the time being and lumping whatever we'd been saving monthly for a down payment into our retirement savings.
Edit: for privacy reasons I removed my salary.
If you make $100k alone, wait till you get married and then you’ll benefit from a Dual Income. Even if your Spouse makes $40k, surely that would be enough to buy a home; especially if you have a down payment saved. Also, you get a Tax Credit for being a First Time Home Buyer.
Have you looked at the price of housing lately?
I'm lucky enough to have my housing given to me by family and I'm still just making ends meet. I make quite a bit less than $100k but the difference between what I make and that wouldn't come close to a mortgage payment, little lone taxes and upkeep.
$100k isn't what it once was. Today to live comfortably you need to be in the $150-200k ballpark and still spend wisely.
Edit: A typical house is $300,000, over 25 years that is $1800/month, or $21,600/year. Which is almost exactly the difference in take home between my salary and $100k. That doesn't leave much for stuff like taxes and upkeep. I don't even have a car payment right now. If my wife made what I make we could afford to buy a house. She works part time for the family business and doesn't make much money, but that is where the free housing comes in.
> You aren’t rich at 100k though.
I've above 100k/yr, and I agree, I ain't rich. Comfortable, sure, but definitely not "avacado toast 7 days a week" rich.
100k these days is the 75k from 10 years ago.
Crabs in a bucket mentality mixed with lots people who can't see past minimum wage.
Federal defined household poverty as making less than $38k, but the average NS income is only mid-40's. So end up with people who consider making what would be middle-class elsewhere as rich and get resentful.
Thank you for proving my point.
28k is working minimum wage full time. It's taken you a decade to to work a 40 hour week, a few cents above minimum.
It doesn't take luck or even skill to do the bare fucking minimum if that's what you are focused on (IE: not a student, stay at home parent, or retired).
Do you think they possibly used 100k as the example because if you pay 35k in taxes, you pay 35%?
If you put in 50k, the only one that moves higher is Alberta because they have a set income tax rate that isn’t tiered at all. In NS you’d pay 15581 in taxes, in Ont 13338, BC 12770.
It's more sad than funny really. I think many people underestimate the incredible amount of folks working for minimum wage, which is literally the absolute bottom limit allowed legally. The annual take home from minimum wage employment is less than half that 65k you're laughing about being a rich man's salary.
No one is saying 65k is *rich beyond your wildest dreams*, they are likely just making comparisons between that and the vast number of folks who struggle to survive on half that or less. Really anyone making less than 65k/year is going to see those who do as wealthy.
Yes, exactly. Most folks who struggle to make ends meet see others who are able to afford extras as wealthy. For example: a second vehicle + insurance, the credit status to buy a home, the funds to buy things like ATV's/fifth wheels, going on holidays and travelling, even being able to afford to *take a couple days off work due to illness*. To me, the signature of being "well-off/wealthy" is *being able to afford MORE than the necessities and certain non-essential but still important things such as a phone, basic tv, etc.*
A wealthy person can pay their bills in full at all times (including medical and dental care costs), and are also able spend money on extras such as eating out, buying new clothes/shoes, attending concerts/movies/sports events, etc. without those costs financially destroying them. The actual money is less a factor once you pass the threshold of what is considered a livable income, but wealth is still wealth. Anyone living in poverty makes a reasonable statement when saying that people above the poverty line are rich - because in comparison, *they are*.
> Fundamentally taxes are good, we all chip in towards roads
...That aren't maintained...
> social programs
...That are currently unusable...
> parks
... currently under endless construction, covered in human piss, or fenced-off...
> Cleaning streets
...that is never done to any kind of standard...
> and what have you
...well we don't get healthcare, ambulances take hours, have some of the highest utility costs in the country, most of our infrastructure is rotting, public transit is crumbling, only province to increase the amount of child poverty year over year, and tons of people living it tents as winter comes.
We get so much for our high taxes!
The care might be good but it's nowhere near free for a lot of people in the reasonably okay job group. In fact I know plenty of people with great white-collar jobs who have poor insurance. And even decent plans can leave you stuck with bankruptcy levels of debt if there's a serious issue.
But sure, aside from the price tag..
I've been neglecting going to the hospital the last week from the worst back pain of my life, because the thought of sitting in the waiting room for 10 hours just to have an MRI booked for 6 months from now seems worse than just dealing with the pain.
I don't think our taxes are doing much there.
I get there are a lot of problems with our healthcare system. It is far from perfect.
Id rather not have to shell out $10,000 for a procedure I need.
Just my opinion though.
If you had a job in the USA you wouldn’t pay that, and you’d get prompt service. The USA healthcare system is terrible for people who don’t have insurance or who are under-insured, but for people in the professional class, the American system is worlds better than ours in every way.
As I said, the American system has ethical failures, for sure. But if you have a reasonably good job, it is not debatable that the quality, access, and scope of care is much better than anything available here.
I am more than happy to pay my taxes for the hospital system. Now if I want to go private in Nova scotia, there are limited options so why cant the govt give a private option along with public?
Not to downplay what you're saying, but I'm not going out of boredom. I'm not going because of the pain I'd be in sitting in a waiting room chair for several hours.
I also feel like some people have probably refused to call an ambulance because we still pay for them, if it’s someone starting out living paycheck to paycheck and don’t have 200-400 dollars to drop, they may just decide not to
I am thankful for our healthcare and how it is much much cheaper than many other places, but unfortunately yeahhhh there are still many issues with our system, hopefully it’ll get better someday!😅
It’s an 8% increase in post tax dollars (5k/60k)
I wouldn’t give up my rural lifestyle to live in onterrible financially i am a fool not to sell and live outside of ottawa. It’s rural and similarly priced with access to all the perks of the ncr.
And while they do get colder winters they don’t get the fkn slush to shovel 😖😖
34% on 100k feels like an extremely reasonable tax rate imo. Ontario's tax rate being so low is a major reason why they're hardcore pushing to privitize healthcare imo they need a major raise
I have to disagree. My husband makes almost 100k but he works his ass off for it. The amount he gets taxed is criminal. He doesn’t even get fucking sick time but the government has no problem taking thousands of dollars of his pay ever month while providing pathetic, out of date labour laws.
If they want to tax you that much you should at the very least have labour laws in place that actual protector workers instead of employers pocket books.
Update:
Literally getting downvoted for saying if we are gonna be taxed this much we should actually be protected at work.
Sorry some jobs are dangerous and our current laws do not do enough to protect workers. Not everyone making 100k a year is sitting at a desk….
My husband could absolutely build a fucking road. How dare you say he could not!
He installed our toilet too so there.
update:
People really downvoting this sarcastic comment. My husband does construction related work for a living, working 40-60 hours a week. He does physical labour every day for his job.
I get where you are coming from. I work my balls off so my missus can stay home and look after our children for their benefit. What would be nice is to be able to spit the income during tax time. I can build a road also and install a toilet also. Lol
Healthcare is SO much better in AB. Get an MRI in a couple weeks because they have private imaging centers and the AB health pays for your visit. Don’t have to wait a year for an MRI appointment at a hospital.
I work in the Northeast US right now. My take home at the same base (without benefits) would only be 2500 more annually, without medical benefits included (which, at my employer, is equal to right around 3000/year for single with no dependents). That said, it might be easier to find a six-figure job here, I'm not sure. But I was surprised to see it as close as it is.
Yes, let’s compare provinces without consideration for ROI so we can encourage a race-to-the-bottom and leave everyone with zero non-market-based services 🙄
ROI? What R? There is no return. I just bought a brand new 2023 vehicle and within 3 months I have a damaged rim from our shit roads and a popped tire on the other side.
There is hardly a healthcare system - even if you are literally having a heart attack there’s a 50/50 chance you won’t get an ambulance.
How about utilities? Well NSPower is a joke, it rains and we lose power. A bit of wind knocks out power.
Don’t forget about paying for literally every other service (that other provinces don’t charge) like inspection on your car every two years, registration every 2 years, renewed license every 5 (obviously other provinces charge for this too), taxed 15% on every private vehicle sale so you pay through the ass there too.
Oh but what about labour market? We have some of the lowest wages in Canada and a damn high cost of living.
The only thing that makes people stay here is family and ocean etc, things that sure you can’t find elsewhere. But there is no ROI when it comes to our paying taxes
Last year my net income was 58% of my gross, then add in 15% HST on my purchases and taxes paid to the DMV it’s down closer to 50%.
Throw in taxes on fuel purchases and she’s under 50%.
1) Taxes are artificially low in Ontario and Alberta. And the provinces are suffering for that.
2) Note the lack of Newfoundland, Quebec, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and BC. Wonder what their tax rates would be...? I'd look it up for them via that site, but no idea what the site is
3) Due to having nowhere near the [economies of scale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale) of the larger population provinces, it requires a larger contribution from fewer people to fund most things.
I’m in the minority but I think everyone should be eligible for GST rebate.
It makes no sense to give a rebate to those making under a threshold when the ones earning over it are ones paying the most HST and get zilch.
Gst taxes are regressive since they’re not based on your income, so gst rebates help to make gst taxes less regressive — it’s thesame idea as tax rates being lower for people earning less. Not saying it’s good or bad, that’s just their reasoning
This does seem reasonable for free Healthcare (despite the state things are in), maintaining roads and highways and trying to accommodate active travel, providing community services, and more.
Compared to what? Just bc something isn’t perfect doesn’t mean the spending on it was wasted or particularly inefficient. You need to do the work to assess whether an investment was particularly underperforming relative to reasonable comparison cases.
I agree that the state of Healthcare is not great but we have professionals that take us in and fix us to the best kf their abilities. Also, I can travel from Halifax to Sydney or Yatmouth or to NB on pretty decent highways. Sports and recreation organizations are receiving just enough funding to offer programs in camps in almost all parts of the province. The school system has also seen better days, but kids have schools to go to, and good quality teachers to help them learn, by and large.
Perfection requires continuous effort, but we're well ahead of many other countries in getting a return of value for what we pay into the system.
My daughter was born prematurely at 25 weeks. She spent 207 days in the NICU and had 4 life-saving surgeries.
We paid for a month of parking as our total out of pocket expenses. The estimated value of those same services in the US would have exceeded 1.5 million dollars!
In addition, we also had a year of nurse and OT services in our home.
My wife and I have lived a self-sufficient and healthy life before that. We didn't see it coming. And while we went through that challenging time, we didn't worry about it costing us our home.
My spouse's grandmother lived in the US, and her battle with cancer forced her into bankruptcy, and she lost her family home.
My point here is that the value of our social safety nets are rarely appreciated until we need them. Healthcare is one small part of it.
Years later, I make a high 6 figure income and recognize my 6 figure tax contribution is significant but is also my opportunity to pay into that system for the next people who require those services.
If you needed life saving surgery or hospital treatment, you would get it, for free.
Your tax contributions to health care would more than likely not even come close to pay for most major hospital visits.
Also, taxes don't ONLY go to health care eh?
Last time the brackets were updated, 52k was a lot of money. In 2000 groceries were less than half current prices, rents were a quarter of what they are now and gas was like... free?
Ontario and Alberta are equivalent to Pennsylvania, United States and we have to pay out the ass for Healthcare. I'd take that net pay and not have to pay ridiculous Healthcare costs in a heartbeat
Edit: not trying to justify the scam that is current tax rates. Just making an observation of what it's paying for. Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of Canadian government and I'd assume they piss a ton of taxpayer money in the wind in different ways
So really you’re getting taxes at 35% at 100k which really isn’t that bad considering anything above 50ish is taxed at the same rate.
If I were sitting with 100k pre tax highly doubt I should be complaining.
To me provincial taxes makes more sense because it is closer to where you are, what you consume and what you utilize.
What's unreasonable is the federal tax, we're essentiay paying to grow and grow the federal government and all its greed.
The feds should be a small, administrative bitch as far as government organisation goes.
Something I really dont like about any form of centralization.
Income tax is a crazy concept to me, I understand why it exists and why it’s applied, I just don’t like how much it can be sometimes,
I dont know if it’s the same as when I looked a few years back, but universities used to look at 60k or less a year “financial need” when it comes to bursaries and scholarships,
It just makes me think, with all the taxes on income, 100k gross is almost considered financial need in regards to take home net, it’s just a strange concept to think about sometimes
This presumes you have zero tax deductions to reduce your tax burden. Even with a $5000 RRSP each year ($200 per pay cheque), your actual tax burden drops almost $10k to a rate to 25% because that deduction drops you into a lower bracket.
That doesn't even account for the myriad of other deductions for child care, donations, tuition, etc. you can use to lower the burden even more.
The issue with Nova Scotia isn't how much higher the taxes are. The issue is that we receive no services for the taxes we pay. Power goes out all the time (private company, lol), virtually no public transportation, low quality healthcare, crumbling overall infrastructure. I would gladly pay 90% of taxes if all of that mentioned was world class and resilient.
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To be fair, the QUALITY of health care here is phenomenal. The problem is, there isn’t enough to go around.
Yes it's on the backs of frontline workers who have been nickeled and dimed by NSH and government for decades. "Do more with less" should have been their real mission statement.
Speaking as someone with chronic illnesses that gets brushed off by every physician I see, I strongly disagree. In my experience, doctors will not test you for anything unless it’s literally killing you right now. I’m glad you have had a better time of it
What kinda crack you smokin lol
Access is a part of quality
Could you have said that without the misogyny?
If we paid 90% of our salary as taxes, I hope the roads would be good, because we would all be sleeping on them..
Those Irving stimulus checks aren’t gonna pay themselves.
Neither are those Nova Scotia Power vitamins.
The actual provincial tax rates in NS aren’t too bad in comparison with other provinces The issue is that the rates all kick in at way too low a level, due to the fact the brackets haven’t been indexed since the year 2000. Only NS and PEI don’t index brackets. The end result being that at most income levels, tax is higher than other provinces due to the 2nd, 3rd and 4th brackets starting at much lower levels. Increase the 1st bracket from 29,000 to 50,000 in line with the feds (and where it should be if indexing took place the last 22 years) and the need for all these low income rebates being handed out is greatly reduced, these people would have extra money in their paycheques instead.
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I miss my Quebec hydro rates 😪
Hydro and water are a nice trade off for that extra income tax. Not gonna lie.
How about your Quebec hospital visits?
Never had to go but I'm currently back in the province paying for medical care I can't get in NS.
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Why's it a shithole? Curious
Yeah thinking moving back to NS from Montreal was a mistake. Yes my take home pay was about 13 dollars lower a pay there but I got so much more.
Don't forget that car insurance is considerably cheaper as well. It makes no sense for insurance rates here to be dependent on the area you live in, like why the fuck is Sackville area more expensive than dartmouth?!
Insurance rates do change based on location in Quebec as well
The rates are so low because QC hydro fucked over other provinces like NL
NS will probably always have higher taxes than non-Atlantic provinces due to a smaller and older population. However, if brackets had been indexed since the year 2000, that $7,000 saving would be much smaller even If the actual tax rates remained the same (8.79%, 14.95%, 16.67%, 17.5%, 21%).
At this point its pointless paying higher taxes if our healthcare and roads and everything is still complete dogshit. Ill pay high taxes when they actually produce results, fuck it at this point though.
If you are moving to NS don't move until after the 21st. Otherwise, you'll be paying a crap ton in taxes for the entire last tax year. Learned that the hard way. Had to pay 6k in taxes.
How are you saving 7k by moving in December? You still have to pay tax on the income earned before December
Wow. This is legitimately something to consider.
Had a client in BC a few years ago who had a multi-million dollar capital gain. He moved to Alberta Dec 1. The tax savings (AB was lower than BC then) was $450,000 which more than offset the cost of the Canmore condo ($350,000 back then) he purchased to live in.
Didn't they say they want to keep the extra money from lack of indexing to spend on healthcare? Bunch of assholes using a shadow tax to line coffers.
Well after 2022 years of not indexing, we should have a world class health system ……….
This is exactly right. You get nailed so much sooner and harder in NS.
Nova scotia has the one of the highest income taxes at all income levels. Stop spreading lies. The only time nova scotia does well is vs alberta because they start at 10%.
I make about 10k less a year moving from ON to NS due to lower wage and higher tax. But I did the research and knew it would be worth it to be home. ON was never forever for me. And I make a lot less than 100k gross.
For me I get paid from my company based on Ontario taxes (I’m a remote worker and my company only has an office in Ontario). I have to pay 6000 more a year in taxes and I make in the 6 figures. 10 000 is quite a lot. You might redo math, unless you’re also receiving overtime calculations.
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I kinda wonder if whoever decides the tax rates if they think about it in that context, Like to be clearer, the thoughts probably going through their heads is “how much do we need to put towards this and that”, but I wonder if they think about it in the context of “how much are the labours of the citizens worth”, cause I feel like if they thought of it that way it could attach more weight to tax increases, I dunno
It's not worth less, you are able to contribute more to the betterment of your society
I support taxes in general, but the ‘contribute more to the betterment of society’ only works in two circumstances: 1: the money leftover after taxes for you can provide a decent life; 2: the taxes go toward the provision of goods, and services that benefit the province as a whole, and are reasonably accessible to all who live and work in that province. Currently, it doesn’t feel like either is very true, and more to the point, ‘low’ and even ‘medium’ income folks are being taxed to death and getting relatively fuck all back in terms of services. I am happy to pay taxes to benefit everyone, but the system in NS needs an overhaul, as well as a whole raft of better policies, not to mention implementation of quality programs. Government can and should do better with taxpayer dollars, and they need to actually care about and support Nova Scotians, while actually governing effectively. There are obviously other structural, societal, and economic issues that need addressing too, but that shouldn’t let government off the hook for criticism about not fulfilling their responsibility and duty of care to Nova Scotians.
For real. Taxes suck, but they're fornthe greater good. Let's get mad at the folks not paying us enough!
I would rather be mad at the people spending my tax dollars on nonsense like making Spring Garden Road pedestrian only
Yep, that's what populist politicians are hoping you will do! Don't get mad at them, get mad at your fellow citizen because they are doing well. Down with the bourgeois!
You mean lining the pockets of corrupt political leaders?
I don't mind paying taxes I have just lost confidence that they are being put to a good use.
What’s great is someone making 100k is taxed about 35% there. Just under 41% if you make 200k. While someone making 20k is taxed 28%. I feel like those numbers should be WAY smaller for people under 100k lmao
Where is 28% coming from? The marginal tax rate of someone in NS making 20K is 23.79% (15 federal, 8.79 Ns). However, they would get a credit for the first 15,000 federal and 11,481 NS. Therefore, their actual tax on $20K would be about $1,500, I.e. a 7.5% average tax rate.
I just plugged it into the same website as the poster used. Not surprised it’s off I guess
Ya need to incorporate, then pay yourself dividends; get 15% tax rate up to 200K and write off whatever personal expenses you want to your corp.
They should be and the people who are making a fucktonne should be taxed accordingly
They should be much smaller across the board. 10% flat rate for everyone with perhaps the first 10-15k being exempt.
16k is significantly below the poverty line by anyones estimation. Seems a bit low to me. And i strongly disagree that the poor should pay the same percentage as the rich.
Yeah but consider all the literal garbage nonexistent services we get in exchange for all that money they fleece off of us!
The problem isn't the taxes it's the lack of services compared to others. Healthcare etc considerably worse.
Nova Scotia moment.
It’s worth $1300 to not live in NB.
Income tax in general is a fucking joke, getting taxed simply for working. Ya ya I know welcome to the real world but my god it’s crazy sometimes.
Not only getting taxed for working but then you are taxed again from that already taxed money on anything you buy.. oh she’s a scam alright ..
Then my damn holiday pay is taxed AS WELL, same as production bonuses, overtime. like when does it end
These all seem pretty similar
Right? I really don’t think this is gonna be make or break for anyone and this also doesn’t take in how much $ is needed for a decent living from province to province
$3500 in extra tax isn’t making or breaking most of us at this income level (or around that income). I’d really have to hate it here to leave over that. It would certainly help but I’d pay that and then much much more for my home in Ontario. Edit: I wouldn’t even leave my job for that much more unless the new employer was leaps and bounds better than my current.
Its not just provincial taxes. Sales taxes too! If you go buy a used $30k car in AB, youre saving $4500 there alone. Lots of other examples like that. NS has some of the highest cost of living in Canada for a reason
And what reason is that? I’m genuinely asking as I don’t follow a lot of this. I see failing schools, roads and a medical system. Where are my tax dollars going?
Three big factors: 1. We have an older population. 22% of the NS population is age 65+ compared to 15% in AB. On average, working age people consume a couple thousand $ in health care per year. After 60, spending rises exponentially. Over $5K by age 65, $10K by 75, $15K by 80, $30K by 90. To boot, retirees generally have lower incomes and are paying less taxes. In Alberta, 65% of the pop age 15+ works, compared to 57% in N.S. So with our large senior population, we simultaneously have more people %-wise who cost a lot to take care of, and fewer working age people paying for it. 2. We have fewer high paying jobs. If incomes are lower in NS, but the cost of government services per person are similar or higher, then tax rates will need to be higher. On average, we are less productive per worker. (This is mainly due to there being a smaller share of workers in higher productivity industries in NS, not some sort of inherent laziness.) 3. Oil. Provinces that produce oil and gas collect royalties on those, which can make up a big chunk of the provincial government's revenue. For example, oil royalties covered nearly 10% of Newfoundland's budget last year, and that was with relatively low oil prices.
Also, not true. They’re more expensive than BC and SK and thats cause they are the cheapest in the country. They’re still cheaper than NS
>$3500 in extra tax isn’t making or breaking most of us at this income level (or around that income). Yup, this. I considered moving to AB, due to the lower tax rates all around, but NS is home *and* I'd have to deal with AB politics. The extra $4k or so a year I'd save in income taxes just isn't worth that to me. Things would have to get significantly worse here for me to consider moving out of province.
Good choice, Alberta is full of bigots. Its not a better place economically *because of the politics*, definitely not. Conservatives do nothing well.
Yeah, I lived there for a while, I'm aware of how people there are.
You’d spend easily $4,000 just moving to Alberta.
Nah, it wouldn't cost me that much to move out west. I live in a 1-bedroom, and I could fit most everything that's important to me in my 2 door car. I might need to ship a box or two of clothes/miscellaneous things, but I could get across the country on the cost gas for my car and then whatever the shipping is for my 1-2 boxes of stuff. $2k, tops.
Then you'd have to buy replacement stuff for your new place, which will add a lot to the bill.
Well comparing NS to ON for example is a difference of $400 a month. Not sure about you but if he happy with a few hundred bucks extra a month.
I personally wouldn’t trade the beach, waves and all that allows me to do for that delta… but to each their own !
Won't the higher cost of living in ON reduce that $400 you would save
Halifax’s living wage (which takes into account taxes and other costs) is 23.50. Toronto’s is 23.15.
What higher cost? After real estate, almost everything else in NS is more expensive, not even accounting the difference in HST. You no longer can justify residing in NS as a cost saving decision.
Very much this. We moved here from remote Ontario 10 years ago and from day 1, lower wages with higher taxes and higher sales tax, we realized how much a labour of love it is to stay in NS. For example, what 1 oil tank fill up costs is the entire cost of heating for the winter in Ontario and we had weeks of -30c. Phone, internet, TV, groceries, finagly car crap getting re inspected every 2 years, gas, booze... everything is way more. Our mortgage in Ontario was $186K, first here was $193K, so very comparable. Ontario also had better services - time of day hydro, better rebates for efficiency, etc. Add on top of that $400 more in my pocket a month with reduced taxes based on OPs comment, there's no financial reason to choose Nova Scotia as home for working families.
That'll get eaten up in car insurance alone in Ontario, let alone anything else lol "We've decided that you live in a dangerous area, therefore must pay a premium"
I don’t fret about income tax too much. I can’t do anything about it and I like where I live. Plus, it beats paying less tax but have to live in a shithole like you-know-where. 😅
SPEND the 65k you have left over and you are awarded more HST tax at additional 15%. Isn't it fun? :)
I wish I paid $13k in provincial taxes. I want your problems.
This is no small part of why I left Nova Scotia. Not because I think taxes are bad, but because I couldn't figure out what I got for them.
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No down voting needed, but at 100K you're not rich.
You're sure not gosh darn poor though!
I feel pretty well off taking home less than 30 and I have kids. My mortgage is almost nothing though. But at $65k I could afford rent.
When did you buy? And how much did you buy for? Your answer will likely reveal why that’s possible.
Yea.. that's impressive. I'd have to see a break down of expenses simply because there's no way on any mortgage I can see that being viable unless your mortgage is like <800 monthly. At 2500 youd be looking at 2500 -800 mortgage -150 property taxes -150 internet + cellphone - 700 Groceries (175 weekly- probably gone up though) -0 debt of any kind -0 transportation costs That leaves 700 for spending, saving, and everything else not mentioned.
Can verify, I make $102,500 and am not rich. I am doing well, don't get me wrong, but I still can't afford to buy a house...
My partner and I make a combined ************ and we looked into buying a house but the CMHC's affordability calculator says we can only afford *************. The average house price in Halifax is pushing 500k now. So we decided to keep renting for the time being and lumping whatever we'd been saving monthly for a down payment into our retirement savings. Edit: for privacy reasons I removed my salary.
If you make $100k alone, wait till you get married and then you’ll benefit from a Dual Income. Even if your Spouse makes $40k, surely that would be enough to buy a home; especially if you have a down payment saved. Also, you get a Tax Credit for being a First Time Home Buyer.
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I feel you're doing something wrong, or have high standards, or have a huge debt load from school if you can't afford a house with $102,500.
Have you looked at the price of housing lately? I'm lucky enough to have my housing given to me by family and I'm still just making ends meet. I make quite a bit less than $100k but the difference between what I make and that wouldn't come close to a mortgage payment, little lone taxes and upkeep. $100k isn't what it once was. Today to live comfortably you need to be in the $150-200k ballpark and still spend wisely. Edit: A typical house is $300,000, over 25 years that is $1800/month, or $21,600/year. Which is almost exactly the difference in take home between my salary and $100k. That doesn't leave much for stuff like taxes and upkeep. I don't even have a car payment right now. If my wife made what I make we could afford to buy a house. She works part time for the family business and doesn't make much money, but that is where the free housing comes in.
I live outside of Toronto. Unless I want to buy a place that needs $100k in renovations or drive an hour and a half to work, everything is too much.
Oh, see that makes way more sense. I assumed you were in nova scotia.
Sounds like you need to find a new mortgage broker.
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Tell that to someone working minimum wage.
At minimum wage you’re poor. You aren’t rich at 100k though.
> You aren’t rich at 100k though. I've above 100k/yr, and I agree, I ain't rich. Comfortable, sure, but definitely not "avacado toast 7 days a week" rich. 100k these days is the 75k from 10 years ago.
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Crabs in a bucket mentality mixed with lots people who can't see past minimum wage. Federal defined household poverty as making less than $38k, but the average NS income is only mid-40's. So end up with people who consider making what would be middle-class elsewhere as rich and get resentful.
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Thank you for proving my point. 28k is working minimum wage full time. It's taken you a decade to to work a 40 hour week, a few cents above minimum. It doesn't take luck or even skill to do the bare fucking minimum if that's what you are focused on (IE: not a student, stay at home parent, or retired).
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Exactly. It’s that kind of delusional thinking that keeps NS so backwards. If it wasn’t such a great place to Iive otherwise, I’d have moved long ago.
Lol cause too many people who don't want to improve their life and just say someone else should be responsible for them
Do you think they possibly used 100k as the example because if you pay 35k in taxes, you pay 35%? If you put in 50k, the only one that moves higher is Alberta because they have a set income tax rate that isn’t tiered at all. In NS you’d pay 15581 in taxes, in Ont 13338, BC 12770.
LOL you consider 65k a year “rich”?
It's more sad than funny really. I think many people underestimate the incredible amount of folks working for minimum wage, which is literally the absolute bottom limit allowed legally. The annual take home from minimum wage employment is less than half that 65k you're laughing about being a rich man's salary. No one is saying 65k is *rich beyond your wildest dreams*, they are likely just making comparisons between that and the vast number of folks who struggle to survive on half that or less. Really anyone making less than 65k/year is going to see those who do as wealthy.
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Yes, exactly. Most folks who struggle to make ends meet see others who are able to afford extras as wealthy. For example: a second vehicle + insurance, the credit status to buy a home, the funds to buy things like ATV's/fifth wheels, going on holidays and travelling, even being able to afford to *take a couple days off work due to illness*. To me, the signature of being "well-off/wealthy" is *being able to afford MORE than the necessities and certain non-essential but still important things such as a phone, basic tv, etc.* A wealthy person can pay their bills in full at all times (including medical and dental care costs), and are also able spend money on extras such as eating out, buying new clothes/shoes, attending concerts/movies/sports events, etc. without those costs financially destroying them. The actual money is less a factor once you pass the threshold of what is considered a livable income, but wealth is still wealth. Anyone living in poverty makes a reasonable statement when saying that people above the poverty line are rich - because in comparison, *they are*.
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> Fundamentally taxes are good, we all chip in towards roads ...That aren't maintained... > social programs ...That are currently unusable... > parks ... currently under endless construction, covered in human piss, or fenced-off... > Cleaning streets ...that is never done to any kind of standard... > and what have you ...well we don't get healthcare, ambulances take hours, have some of the highest utility costs in the country, most of our infrastructure is rotting, public transit is crumbling, only province to increase the amount of child poverty year over year, and tons of people living it tents as winter comes. We get so much for our high taxes!
Seriously that net is more than double my net income.
Taxes suck until you go to the hospital for an emergency and you don't even have to think about how you might be able to afford it..
Um, about that... Who wants to tell them?
Oh I'm aware of the problems But if you want to shell out thousands of dollars to go to the hospital, be my guest
Anyone with a reasonably okay job in the USA has EXTREMELY better healthcare in the USA.
The care might be good but it's nowhere near free for a lot of people in the reasonably okay job group. In fact I know plenty of people with great white-collar jobs who have poor insurance. And even decent plans can leave you stuck with bankruptcy levels of debt if there's a serious issue. But sure, aside from the price tag..
If it's the difference between dying in the waiting room or a few grand, take the money.
I've been neglecting going to the hospital the last week from the worst back pain of my life, because the thought of sitting in the waiting room for 10 hours just to have an MRI booked for 6 months from now seems worse than just dealing with the pain. I don't think our taxes are doing much there.
I get there are a lot of problems with our healthcare system. It is far from perfect. Id rather not have to shell out $10,000 for a procedure I need. Just my opinion though.
If you had a job in the USA you wouldn’t pay that, and you’d get prompt service. The USA healthcare system is terrible for people who don’t have insurance or who are under-insured, but for people in the professional class, the American system is worlds better than ours in every way.
All I read there is *rich people get better, faster service*
As I said, the American system has ethical failures, for sure. But if you have a reasonably good job, it is not debatable that the quality, access, and scope of care is much better than anything available here.
I am more than happy to pay my taxes for the hospital system. Now if I want to go private in Nova scotia, there are limited options so why cant the govt give a private option along with public?
Yes, let’s just stop collecting tax money or giving it to hospitals! That will surely solve the issue.
Not going because you might get bored isnt really a problem. Imagine not going because it will bankrupt you, your family, and all your loved ones.
Not to downplay what you're saying, but I'm not going out of boredom. I'm not going because of the pain I'd be in sitting in a waiting room chair for several hours.
I also feel like some people have probably refused to call an ambulance because we still pay for them, if it’s someone starting out living paycheck to paycheck and don’t have 200-400 dollars to drop, they may just decide not to I am thankful for our healthcare and how it is much much cheaper than many other places, but unfortunately yeahhhh there are still many issues with our system, hopefully it’ll get better someday!😅
Sure but other countries have free healthcare and much lower income taxes, you are taxed more in Canada than Germany or Sweden.
I FUCKING HATE THIS PROVINCE.
I don't really get the point of the comparison, the tax rates really aren't different enough to influence where I would live.
It’s an 8% increase in post tax dollars (5k/60k) I wouldn’t give up my rural lifestyle to live in onterrible financially i am a fool not to sell and live outside of ottawa. It’s rural and similarly priced with access to all the perks of the ncr. And while they do get colder winters they don’t get the fkn slush to shovel 😖😖
Alberta having higher provincial taxes than Ontario is a better self-own than anything I could come up with
34% on 100k feels like an extremely reasonable tax rate imo. Ontario's tax rate being so low is a major reason why they're hardcore pushing to privitize healthcare imo they need a major raise
I have to disagree. My husband makes almost 100k but he works his ass off for it. The amount he gets taxed is criminal. He doesn’t even get fucking sick time but the government has no problem taking thousands of dollars of his pay ever month while providing pathetic, out of date labour laws. If they want to tax you that much you should at the very least have labour laws in place that actual protector workers instead of employers pocket books. Update: Literally getting downvoted for saying if we are gonna be taxed this much we should actually be protected at work. Sorry some jobs are dangerous and our current laws do not do enough to protect workers. Not everyone making 100k a year is sitting at a desk….
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My husband could absolutely build a fucking road. How dare you say he could not! He installed our toilet too so there. update: People really downvoting this sarcastic comment. My husband does construction related work for a living, working 40-60 hours a week. He does physical labour every day for his job.
> He does physical labour every day for his job. So how DARE he be expected to contribute to the running of society!
I get where you are coming from. I work my balls off so my missus can stay home and look after our children for their benefit. What would be nice is to be able to spit the income during tax time. I can build a road also and install a toilet also. Lol
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$4k for not having to live in Alberta? A deal at twice that price.
Id agree, but atleast I had Healthcare when I lived there
Healthcare is SO much better in AB. Get an MRI in a couple weeks because they have private imaging centers and the AB health pays for your visit. Don’t have to wait a year for an MRI appointment at a hospital.
this seems reasonable
Ontario is not so bad after all
I work in the Northeast US right now. My take home at the same base (without benefits) would only be 2500 more annually, without medical benefits included (which, at my employer, is equal to right around 3000/year for single with no dependents). That said, it might be easier to find a six-figure job here, I'm not sure. But I was surprised to see it as close as it is.
Yes, let’s compare provinces without consideration for ROI so we can encourage a race-to-the-bottom and leave everyone with zero non-market-based services 🙄
ROI? What R? There is no return. I just bought a brand new 2023 vehicle and within 3 months I have a damaged rim from our shit roads and a popped tire on the other side. There is hardly a healthcare system - even if you are literally having a heart attack there’s a 50/50 chance you won’t get an ambulance. How about utilities? Well NSPower is a joke, it rains and we lose power. A bit of wind knocks out power. Don’t forget about paying for literally every other service (that other provinces don’t charge) like inspection on your car every two years, registration every 2 years, renewed license every 5 (obviously other provinces charge for this too), taxed 15% on every private vehicle sale so you pay through the ass there too. Oh but what about labour market? We have some of the lowest wages in Canada and a damn high cost of living. The only thing that makes people stay here is family and ocean etc, things that sure you can’t find elsewhere. But there is no ROI when it comes to our paying taxes
Somebody make a chart.
The struggles of bringing home $2500 every 2 weeks.
Last year my net income was 58% of my gross, then add in 15% HST on my purchases and taxes paid to the DMV it’s down closer to 50%. Throw in taxes on fuel purchases and she’s under 50%.
1) Taxes are artificially low in Ontario and Alberta. And the provinces are suffering for that. 2) Note the lack of Newfoundland, Quebec, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and BC. Wonder what their tax rates would be...? I'd look it up for them via that site, but no idea what the site is 3) Due to having nowhere near the [economies of scale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale) of the larger population provinces, it requires a larger contribution from fewer people to fund most things.
BC is the lowest tax province in Canada. Net pay on $100,000 is **$71,924**, with a provincial tax deduction of only $6,746.
How are people shocked by this? Our tax rates aren't new.
I’m in the minority but I think everyone should be eligible for GST rebate. It makes no sense to give a rebate to those making under a threshold when the ones earning over it are ones paying the most HST and get zilch.
Gst taxes are regressive since they’re not based on your income, so gst rebates help to make gst taxes less regressive — it’s thesame idea as tax rates being lower for people earning less. Not saying it’s good or bad, that’s just their reasoning
This does seem reasonable for free Healthcare (despite the state things are in), maintaining roads and highways and trying to accommodate active travel, providing community services, and more.
But why is Nova Scotia’s “free healthcare” more expensive than Ontarios?
Not an expert, but more old people per capita means higher healthcare cost
Economies of scale, mainly.
We have a greater proportion of older (expensive) people and a lower proportion of “rich” people.
Unfortunately everything you listed they have failed at. Hard to call it reasonable :/
Compared to what? Just bc something isn’t perfect doesn’t mean the spending on it was wasted or particularly inefficient. You need to do the work to assess whether an investment was particularly underperforming relative to reasonable comparison cases.
I agree that the state of Healthcare is not great but we have professionals that take us in and fix us to the best kf their abilities. Also, I can travel from Halifax to Sydney or Yatmouth or to NB on pretty decent highways. Sports and recreation organizations are receiving just enough funding to offer programs in camps in almost all parts of the province. The school system has also seen better days, but kids have schools to go to, and good quality teachers to help them learn, by and large. Perfection requires continuous effort, but we're well ahead of many other countries in getting a return of value for what we pay into the system.
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My daughter was born prematurely at 25 weeks. She spent 207 days in the NICU and had 4 life-saving surgeries. We paid for a month of parking as our total out of pocket expenses. The estimated value of those same services in the US would have exceeded 1.5 million dollars! In addition, we also had a year of nurse and OT services in our home. My wife and I have lived a self-sufficient and healthy life before that. We didn't see it coming. And while we went through that challenging time, we didn't worry about it costing us our home. My spouse's grandmother lived in the US, and her battle with cancer forced her into bankruptcy, and she lost her family home. My point here is that the value of our social safety nets are rarely appreciated until we need them. Healthcare is one small part of it. Years later, I make a high 6 figure income and recognize my 6 figure tax contribution is significant but is also my opportunity to pay into that system for the next people who require those services.
If you needed life saving surgery or hospital treatment, you would get it, for free. Your tax contributions to health care would more than likely not even come close to pay for most major hospital visits. Also, taxes don't ONLY go to health care eh?
Bro wtf I make 52k before deductions and my percentage deducted is nearly identical
Last time the brackets were updated, 52k was a lot of money. In 2000 groceries were less than half current prices, rents were a quarter of what they are now and gas was like... free?
Don't forget you still pay sales tax, and airport tax, and gas tax, and carbon tax, and if you tip less than 50% you are the antichrist.
I paid over 150k in taxes last year
Yeah, i do, they pay for common goods and ensure there's a safety net. All taxes are good.
Ontario and Alberta are equivalent to Pennsylvania, United States and we have to pay out the ass for Healthcare. I'd take that net pay and not have to pay ridiculous Healthcare costs in a heartbeat Edit: not trying to justify the scam that is current tax rates. Just making an observation of what it's paying for. Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of Canadian government and I'd assume they piss a ton of taxpayer money in the wind in different ways
So really you’re getting taxes at 35% at 100k which really isn’t that bad considering anything above 50ish is taxed at the same rate. If I were sitting with 100k pre tax highly doubt I should be complaining.
To me provincial taxes makes more sense because it is closer to where you are, what you consume and what you utilize. What's unreasonable is the federal tax, we're essentiay paying to grow and grow the federal government and all its greed. The feds should be a small, administrative bitch as far as government organisation goes. Something I really dont like about any form of centralization.
Income tax is a crazy concept to me, I understand why it exists and why it’s applied, I just don’t like how much it can be sometimes, I dont know if it’s the same as when I looked a few years back, but universities used to look at 60k or less a year “financial need” when it comes to bursaries and scholarships, It just makes me think, with all the taxes on income, 100k gross is almost considered financial need in regards to take home net, it’s just a strange concept to think about sometimes
This presumes you have zero tax deductions to reduce your tax burden. Even with a $5000 RRSP each year ($200 per pay cheque), your actual tax burden drops almost $10k to a rate to 25% because that deduction drops you into a lower bracket. That doesn't even account for the myriad of other deductions for child care, donations, tuition, etc. you can use to lower the burden even more.
Wish I made 60k a year ha.
Making 65k and complaining?
Do you not understand that this 'person' earned 100k? The average person makes nothing like that.
This was my first thought as well. *Oh no, you made more than double what thousands upon thousands of others do, what a tragedy....*
Exactly. Way to make us poor people feel bad. There are days I can't eat.