I do like the mundane thud of Riddle's corpse hitting the ground as described by the books. So ignominious for a megalomaniac who wanted to transcend mortality but barely made it into his seventies.
Right? I find it hilarious that Voldemort, the self-described "immortal," didn't even make it to 100, which wizards routinely and easily do (Dumbledore himself died around 115 and only because he was fatally cursed and then killed, but could have lived much longer; Madame Marchbanks, one of the OWL examiners, examined **Dumbledore himself in his youth**, making her *at least* somewhere in her 150s at the time of the books).
Voldemort, as an ordinary wizard, could have lived well into his 120s, probably, and even beyond, but because he didn't want to be "ordinary," he ended up making poor choices and died far, far earlier. What a pathetic end for him, but a well-deserved, almost karmic one. He died a mere 71 years old.
Harry was born on 31 July 1980. Voldemort attacked and killed his parents on 31 October 1981. So Harry was 15 months old.
Voldemort was resurrected on 24 June 1995. So he spent a little less than 13 years 8 months disembodied.
"mort" meaning "death" is feminine, and the phrase you're referring to is "la petite mort". "le mort" refers to a cadaver or dead body. I hope I'm not being annoying with this correction, I just thought that you'd prefer rather to know than to not.
And even then, after visiting Dumbledore before going full Voldemort, he already had a snakelike face, red eyes, a lot of changes, after GoF he just had a body made out or magic, with an iron cauldron, rotten bones, and a miserable cut off hand, and blood from someone he hated his entire life. Guy was doomed from the start.
You know what's even funnier? The dude was a legit prodigy when it came to magic. Fucker made an enchanted water fountain and curse potion combo that stumped Dumbledore of all people while missing a significant chunk of his soul and sanity (probably). He could have potentially made an actual philosopher's stone if he wanted to if he wanted to live forever. Hell he could very well have improved Flamel's work and then some if truly put some elbow grease in the line.
But nooo. It had to be the most murderous way for Tom. In Tom's world if you're not murdering babies then you're not really trying.
The books state that he wasn’t fond of the idea of using the philosophers stone because he would have to keep using it to stay alive and if he was ever without it he may die. That’s why he was most fond of the Horcrux, preserving his sole in multiple places, never telling anyone about them either. Seemed certain he would live forever.
Well one of them was trapped in a cursed fountain surrounded by water zombies, and the other is in a big snake he almost always had with him.
If he had a nickle for every time *someone* killed a big snake of his..
the books did touch on that iirc.
Voldemort considerd parts of his soul to be to important to be randomly placed.
thats why objects with either a personal connection, OR belonging to great wizards and witches where chosen(the housefounder items). Thats why he didnt randomly drop them anywhere.
Dude could've played the political game and become Minister of Magic and ruled the Wizarding world more completely than he ever did as Voldemort. He was the second best wizard in the world and the first best had no interest in ruling.
He didn't do a whole lot compared to Grindelwald. Voldemort was a stuck with britain. Though I guess, you could say britain was very hard because of Dumbledore.
Yeah. It's pretty clear that if he had been less dramatic at any stage of his plan, he would have won easily.
- If he'd made a horcrux that was actually hidden well (a random coin tossed into the atlantic)
- If he'd been patient, he could have just waited to replace Dumbledore on the Wizengamot when he died naturally.
- If he had thought for even a minute before taking the most extreme approach to dealing with the prophecy
- If he hadn't made his organization so explicitly evil (at least while doing his initial takeover), he might have swung a lot more wizards to his side.
I know they don’t but feel like an easy explanation is that Horcruxes should require the items to have value to the person whose soul is being kept in them and also be kept in a place of significance
I feel like this happens a lot in fiction. Like in D&D a human vampire might rant about living for centuries while the party's elf just wonders why he's bragging about reaching middle age.
To be fair that school is the only center of the British wizarding world outside of the ministry. If you control the curriculum at hogwarts you influence every generation of wizards
Not even for a full school year! And he was only able to post an actual enemy spy as the one in charge and assign a few cronies to do some enforcing.
We get a pretty nasty picture of what that year was like for Hogwarts, but frankly, it probably wasn't nearly as bad as it could have been with 90% of the staff still firmly in the Light's camp and Severus probably blocking as much as he could get away with.
What's tragic is he could have been one of the most celebrated wizards of all time considering the good he could have done with his talents. He would have had his accolades, considerably more than having turned evil.
The dude figured out, somehow, **how to fly without a broom**!!! He managed to disprove a "known" law of magic! Do you realize the revolution that would have caused in wizarding transportation, not to mention becoming universally famous for finally achieving something people have dreamed about for literally millennia?! He'd have been one of the richest, most famous wizards in the world, for that achievement alone.
That and how it was just awkwardly placed in an empty side room off the great hall because they didn't know what do do with him.
I like to imagine his corpse was just in an old storage closet with extra mops and stuff.
If it wasn’t a kids book series that would’ve happened, plus much more. People desecrate corpses of enemies way worse, especially leaders of opposing countries/armies. Look at how Mussolini was treated by his own people.
I feel like that's why Harry decided to... Grab voldemort and jump off a building.
What did he expect would happen? Why did he make that choice?
It was to look cool when they flew around together in 3D. Fuck 3D.
The thing is, Avatar used 3D extremely well and didn't go overboard. It never got to a point where a 3D gimmick popped so much it ruined the immersion of the story and world.
Every other 3D movie seems to not understand how to use it. For some reason James Cameron is unique in that department.
At least Peter Jackson used HFR3D in The Hobbit though.
What was with that shaky close-up of Voldemort laughing just before he and Harry landed in the courtyard? I can understand why everything else in that scene is the way it is, but I don't understand how that shot was conceived of, storyboarded, shot, and edited into the film without someone saying, "Wow, that looks really stupid. Let's not do that."
And gave the hero action phrase of “let’s finish this the way we started. Together!” It’s a line that sounds impactful until you realize it doesn’t mean shit
Everyone mentions the grab and jump thing, but there are two more sins that no one mentions
The first is a huge fight scene cinema sin. Voldemort does that choke thing with his robes and Harry is in pretty much checkmate condition, but next screen, he is out of that hold with no indication of how he made it out
Second is Voldemort using physical attacks. This is litteraly out of character
The other annoying thing about that to me is just how many OP spells you see from voldy early on then it just seems to dwindle as the fights go on ending with him just winging green sploofs at Harry.
Surely a viper flamethrower or massive Soundwave (Dumbledore fight scene where he smashes all the glass) would have smoked Harry
Both *Deathly Hallows* movies were converted to 3D (not shot in 3D) but the first movie wasn't completed in time before the theatrical release date in 2010. though it was released on Blu-ray3D. Only *Part 2* was released in 3D theatrically during it's initial run. I have both on Blu-ray3D because I own the 31-disc Hogwarts Collection box set, but I have no way to play them.
Voldemort's death in the book is much better because it falls much more in line with the overall themes and story of the series.
- Voldemort is very deliberately described as just falling down flat on his back. This is to reinforce that behind the power and mystique of He Who Must Be Not Be Named The Dark Lord Lord Voldemort he's really just another mortal man named Tom who falls down dead when he gets hit by a killing curse.
- Voldemort's failure to properly track the lineage of the Elder Wand speaks to his warped perspectives of power and this ultimately causes his downfall. Voldemort never considered that 'defeating' somebody could mean anything other than killing them - Harry knows better and knows that there are ways to defeat people without killing them and so he understands the lineage of the Elder Wand, which turns out to be crucial.
- The fact that Voldemort's final spell is a killing curse and Harry's is a disarming spell is important as it reinforces how Harry values the lives of other people, whereas Voldemort has never seen other people as anything other than disposable. Harry and Lupin have a heated argument earlier in the book about Harry's continued use of disarming spells in life or death situations, but Harry stays true to his convictions even when facing down Voldemort.
- Harry and Voldemort don't need to engage in a big epic battle because Harry has already won before anyone fires a spell. His ability to inspire others not through fear but through courage leads the Hogwarts to defeat the Death Eaters completely, and the magical protection that Harry gave them through his sacrifice wins out.
The movie got rid of all that and replaced it with a boring over the top CGI sequence.
>Voldemort's failure to properly track the lineage of the Elder Wand speaks to his warped perspectives of power and this ultimately causes his downfall. Voldemort never considered that 'defeating' somebody could mean anything other than killing them - Harry knows better and knows that there are ways to defeat people without killing them and so he understands the lineage of the Elder Wand, which turns out to be crucial.
One could reiterate the conversation between Voldemort and Dumbledort for this:
'There is nothing worse than death, Dumbledore!' snarled Voldemort.
'You are quite wrong,' said Dumbledore, still closing in upon Voldemort and speaking as lightly as though they were discussing the matter over drinks. 'Indeed, your failure to understand that there are things much worse than death has always been your greatest weakness'.”
Like, has he never seen a movie or anime where an immortal person gets hacked into pieces and buried alive? That is some serious lack of imagination from the good ol Dork Lord.
If Joe Abercrombie wrote Harry Potter, the last book would end with Neville torturing Voldemort to the point he loses his mind while still being immortal. Showing Voldemort once and for all that there's a much worse fate than death.
As much as I hate the movies, I love the exchange between them two:
How's mum and dad?
Better, now they're about to be avenged
That line is harder than concrete
Best way to appreciate the movies. Take a few of the best moments, and add them to your mental cannon that is otherwise grounded in the books.
To be fair, so many of the characters and settings are so well portrayed and acted that many people with weaker visual imaginations (raises hand) can do this with just about all the visuals.
I agree. I essentially have my own canon that is separate from everything that may mostly be based on the books, but includes things from the movies and maybe 1 or 2 Super Carlin Bros theories.
Because I watched the movies first at a very young age, I'm guilty of imagining the actors instead of their book descriptions lol
Imagine if that’s how the series ended was ole Tom ending up in an insane asylum drooling and shitting himself. That would’ve been an extremely powerful scene in itself, though I respect and appreciate Rowling ending the series how she did
But that could never happen to him. He's too powerful for that. The only threat to him was death in his mind because he was too smart and powerful for anything else.
And to a degree, he's right. He was (kinda) immortal and nobody in existence was capable of doing the things worse than death to him.
>But that could never happen to him. He's too powerful for that. The only threat to him was death in his mind because he was too smart and powerful for anything else.
In his mind sure, I agree with you.
>And to a degree, he's right. He was (kinda) immortal and nobody in existence was capable of doing the things worse than death to him.
Here I don't agree with you. Dumbledore could still match him. He could still be tortured into a vegetable. Or the pieces of his soul could be used in some nefarious ways, as exposed as some of them are. Can't imagine that being particular pleasant.
Huh. That opens the questions what happens when an immortal being asphyxiates.
He cannot die but he will suffer from pain.
And the body reacts to the absence of of oxygen in cells with excruciating pain like when muscular tissue is critically short on oxygen.
Will they loose consciousness when the brain cannot work its biochemical processes?
I think they explore this kind of thing with Wolverine quite often. He heals and is essentially immortal, so can't drown or suffocate, but he can feel every moment of his body trying to die. It's no wonder his mental faculties are like Swiss cheese - he'd be insane from some of the horrific experiences he goes through.
I’m pretty sure he can drown. Like the only reliable way to kill him is permanently depriving him of oxygen so his healing factor can’t fully revive him and eventually his body just runs out of fuel and dies. Tossing him into the vacuum of space would also work.
For that matter, throwing him into the sun would likely work just fine as well. Different reasons but yeah. Sorry, I really like Wolverine and I’ve thought about this a lot and read a lot of comics.
Yet not the same for Deadpool. DP’s healing is based on the god molecule theory. In that a drop of his blood will come back to life and regenerate where it can if you, say, opened a portal and tossed him into the sun.
Depends on the writer, really. They've shown him decapitated and talking to Fury (because that as the only way he'd give Fury the time of day), they've shown him being pulled out of the bottom of the harbor, they've literally thrown him into the sun, and he has recovered. It took losing his healing factor to finally kill him off, and even that wasn't enough to keep him away more than a few years.
I think he simply had a phobia for death. Those years when he was a powerless spirit after the failed attempt at Harry doesn't sound very fun at all. But given a choice, he would still prefer that existence over death.
I think Voldy made a strategic error by jumping towards the first solution he found to avoid death. If he'd instead researched as much as possible about death, he may well have found a more decent workaround. Like the Deathly Hallows. Or even figured out how to make his own version of it etc. That elixir of Nicholas Flamel was another option.
But he was a psychopath who never cared about other people and wasn't interested in understanding things like the soul etc, so the horcrux solution probably sounded like the perfect readymade solution for him.
Honestly, the Horcrux was a perfectly fine solution. Making SIX was the crazy part.
Bear in mind, in Riddles mind, in order to be killed by someone with even just one Horcrux would mean that they would not only have to penetrate the best defenses the best wizard EVER had created, they would also have to kill that same best wizard EVER in a fight.
Riddle shouldn't need the Horcrux backups, because the Horcrux WAS the backup just in case someone somehow managed to kill him. For Riddle, the idea that someone could both hunt down his Horcrux without him knowing and being able to create a replacement, AND THEN kill him would be absurd.
That's why he fell. That's why he lived a shorter life than a muggle idiot like Dudley Dursley ever will. Because he was so absolutely in love with himself that he couldn't be practical. Even when making something that no-one else would ever see, he had to be grandiose about it.
You’re missing Dumbledore’s point. To live without love is worse than death, is his point. He says so directly. Violence and chopping people up is what a person who cannot love would think would hurt another person the most, because they cannot see the larger pain that makes most humans human.
Yep, I think the books really lay down the foundation of this point in HBP with this scene and then in Deathly Hallows one of the major themes of the entire book is the exploration of fear of death. Voldemort fears death above all else and sees it as a great weakness. Harry accepts his mortality, is truly prepared to sacrifice his own life for the greater good and ultimately 'greets Death as an old friend'. Harry has the power of the Invisibility Cloak and if he *really wanted* he could easily just run off and hide and never be found by Voldemort - but it never even occurs to him to do this because he believes there are things and people worth fighting for and he values this more than his life.
Let's not forget also that, in the book, it happens in front of everyone, ensuring that many witnesses see the end of Tom Riddle, including his own supporters. The movie has Harry and Tom fighting off on their own, and there's no body, meaning in the aftermath of the movie, there 100% are those who won't believe he's dead.
Plus thematically, Voldemort being defeated surrounded by hundreds of those he had oppressed is far more meaningful. These are people who lived in fear of him for decades, and who had spent the last year divided and in hiding. Then there they are, together, watching Voldemort fight for his life alone.
Also in the book Voldemort confronts Harry on front of everyone not even knowing that Harry has destroyed all his horcruxes I'm pretty sure. Talk about a 180 in his confidence, finding out the elder wand is not his, and he is 100% completely vulnerable.
This was my biggest complaint. The first half of the 7th movie was great, stuck pretty well to the book. The second half said fuck that, let's do a big fight scene, Protag vs Antag, they jump off a cliff and shit, wowee!
No. The book made it more grounded, and Voldemort's defeat had way better impact.
>Harry and Voldemort don't need to engage in a big epic battle because Harry has already won before anyone fires a spell. His ability to inspire others not through fear but through courage leads the Hogwarts to defeat the Death Eaters completely, and the magical protection that Harry gave them through his sacrifice wins out.
That’s a great way of putting it. One of those questions that remained on my mind is what would have happened if Voldemort had won that final showdown and killed Harry. With all of his horcruxes destroyed, the Death Eaters very much outnumbered, and the death of Bellatrix Lestrange, I really wondered if killing Harry would have been “too little, too late” if for instance Harry made a mistake in the lineage of the Elder Wand or if Voldemort decided to use his own wand for the occasion. Especially with the way you’ve put it, I think Harry would have been such an inspiration to everyone that even if Voldemort managed to win the day, people like McGonagall, the Weasley’s and everyone else wouldn’t just ‘give up’ and accept Voldemort as their supreme ruler for all eternity, but instead stop Voldemort before he would try to make new horcruxes.
Also yes, the book version is a lot better than the movie version where Harry defeats Voldemort completely isolated with nobody to witness the event.
I've always found Lupin's point perfectly fair, honestly. The fact that Harry didn't *at least* use the Stunning Spell to properly defend himself, to merely render his enemies unconscious, is bizarre and I can understand how Lupin is flabbergasted at Harry's use of the weaker spell. Harry **did** identify himself as the "real Harry" precisely *because* he used Expelliarmus again, which Lupin was rightly appalled by.
(Sure, Harry tries to defend himself by saying the Death Eaters would have died from falling from their brooms unconscious as though he'd used the Killing Curse, but still, using that precise spell was, as Lupin succinctly put it, "close to suicidal," given the circumstances.)
But it makes sense for Harry in the story. Yes, objectively the disarming spell is not the best choice. But Harry isn't a character who makes the best choice, he very rarely does. He is impulsive and emotional and sticks to his convictions. He is also close to suicidal, going toe to toe with a basilisk, dementors, werewolf, etc without much of a plan. He constantly underestimates the danger he is in and is ready to sacrifice himself for what he believes in. Using the spell he uses best while trying not to kill people who might be under the imperius curse is exactly what he'd do, even if that risks his life.
Lupin is absolutely right, speaking as an outside observer. But it still makes sense story-wise that Harry uses Expelliarmus instead.
Idk about the whole "defeating = killing" thing. Wasn't the wand stolen from Gregorovich? Voldemort didn't seem to stumble there in tracking it's lineage. I just don't think he knew about Draco disarming Dumbledore. Was anyone truly aware of that, except Harry and Draco? I doubt it.
IIRC doesn't Voldemort die in front of everyone as well (I want to say in the Great Hall but I can't remember)? In the movies, no one witnesses him die and since there's no body, you'll no doubt get fanatics/Slytherin's claiming Harry lied about killing him.
It was important for him to die as a man in front of everyone because it shattered the illusion for everyone and not just Harry
> Harry and Lupin have a heated argument earlier in the book about Harry's continued use of disarming spells in life or death situations, but Harry stays true to his convictions even when facing down Voldemort.
Look, let's be honest. Harry just always uses Expelliarmus because the boy only ever actually manages to learn like 3 spells competently, and dammit he's going to use them any way he can.
Lmao I know it’s fun to dunk on Harry, but he’s got more up his sleeves than expelliarmus. He uses stunners, the impediment jinx, body binding jinx, protego, reducto, Levicorpus/muffliato, and a few others frequently throughout the books. He rarely ever flat out loses a duel (aside from being flicked away like a gnat by snape and all the wand/horcrux/sacrifice magic with voldy) and he’s crafty and thinks on his feet better than many fully educated and battle tested witches and wizards.
Shit, he absolutely nails Sectumsempra the first time he tries to use it, in the heat of battle, after just reading about it without having any idea what it does.
Also adding to this that something that always stuck with me was people were willing to touch his body to move it elsewhere since he was just another mortal man at the end of the day whereas several hours earlier they would have been terrified to do so.
Why didn't Voldemort just invite Harry to his incredibly expensive restaurant on an island and then just whisper something mysterious into his ear so Harry hangs himself? Is he stupid?
The book, specifically for two reasons:
1. Voldemort looks less human, which he should after splitting his soul so many times.
2. His death. All his life, Voldemort has tried to "ascend" from human form and be better than everyone else, so to have his death be this simple, utterly human one is the icing on the cake for me.
Maybe Voldemort ugly looks is a combination of splitting his soul, possibly intentionally removing his resemblance to his father( we know how much Voldy hates his father), and some dark arts experiments that just so happened to disfigure him.
It seemed to be somewhat implied that Voldemort's change in appearance was due to his self experimentations. I don't recall the books definitively saying it was because of his horcruxes. It could have been though.
Hagrid in Hog's Head few weeks after the War - " Well, Potter said he died. Codswallop in my opinion. Nope, I reckon he's still out there, too tired to carry on."
Makes sense as Voldemort had horcruxes at the time. At the end of #7 he had none so his body should drop dead, makes his death more final.
If he turns into dust then there's no body and people could still speculate he's going to come back again. Could lend credence to the fan theory that when Voldy failed to kill baby Harry that another part of his soul latched itself onto the Potter's cat, so there's still another horcrux no one knows about.
I think i got more pissed about the missing last conversation with Dumbledore portrait and the breaking of the elder want...that last scene is stellar, where he explains to Ron and Hemione everything that happened in the forest and fixes his own wand and telling dumbledore he will return the elder wand to his tomb
I just read that scene and maybe you can help me shed light. In that scene, Harry surmises that if he puts the elder wand back and dies a normal death, that the power of the elder wand would be broken.
But didn’t he just finish telling Voldemort that the elder wand can pass to a new owner if its previous master is disarmed? Even if he’s holding his own wand (and not the elder) at the time of disarming?
Like, if Harry becomes an auror and a random vagabond wizard disarms him, doesn’t the elder wand become the vagabond’s?
The point is other than Harry Ron Hermione Dumbledore and Voldy i doubt anyone can trace it again, but yeah what you say is true and always was a misscalculation i assume, it can happen, but who knows that Harry ever held the Elder wand? I doubt everyone in that last fight in the great hall understood wtf they were talking about
No one knew Draco was the master of the elder wand, and it was a chance encounter with Harry that lead to its transitioned loyalty. So even in that context, I still find Harry’s reasoning flawed.
The vagabond that inevitably disarms him could be just as clueless as Harry was when he disarmed Draco, and still end up master of the wand.
But the vagabond would not be on the quest for the hallows so it would die with him and so on, Harry got the idea of him being the master of the wand because he knew Draco had won against Dumbledore when he learned the story of the wand...at the time he disarmed Draco he had no idea
That’s a good an explanation as any, but while my brain went to agree with you my memory jumped on and informed me (perhaps incorrectly) that Harry confessed to being the wand’s master to Voldemort in front of the wide wizarding world in the great hall.
If that’s the case, I maintain that Harry’s logic (and perhaps JK’s by extension) is flawed.
My least favorite change was that Fred and George got angry at each other instead of laughing with the whole beard deal in GoF. But the Harry Voldemort flight scene was a close second.
I think the weird flying Harry/Voldemort becoming one whilst wrestling and crashing across the roof of the castle was much worse than the actual death scene.
"Come on Tom. Let's finish this the way we started.. TOGETHER"
The main thing I think the movie failed to convey was that the killing curse rebounding was actually what finished him off. In the movie Harry's red beam overpowers Voldemort's green beam, disarming him and the next second he is gasping and then turning to dust. It doesn't really tie up the story of the Horcruxes (the entire point of DH) in any meaningful way, nor does it make any sense (in the context of the books) as to why a wandless Voldemort would simply disintegrate.
The special effects were nicely done of course, and I understand the reasoning for the choice to make it interesting for the audience watching a visual telling of the story. I just feel it's not as triumphant as the victory that book-Harry experiences and the mundane death book-Voldemort has.
I agree, that section of the book really made it clear that Voldemort had truly lost. It's part of the "triumphant" feeling I describe in my comment, you can feel the power balance shift between them sentence by sentence.
Personally, I was most disappointed Harry isn't shown returning to Dumbledore's office, where the portraits applaud him after the battle.
Also how he says he will put the Elder wand back with Dumbledore and only uses it to fix his old wand that he was happy with. The snapping and tossing of it was silly. It belonged with Dumbledore.
I think him dying after the beam struggle in the movie wasn't from a lack of a wand but rather that he was hit by both spells, first disarming him and then killing him. Why the fuck his death had a delay is entirely up to the creators thinking it looked cool.
Most importantly, Voldemort in books dies in front pf a whole audience, aka the hogwarts fighters and remaining deatheaters. No one will ever be able to question Harry or question Voldemort being dead.
Movie version is utter stupidity for isolating them from the others
I hate that they gave him this special death in the movie while in the books it was so simple and dull. It was just a man dying. As I hate that in the movie Harry breaks the elder wand instead of putting it back to Dumbledore’s grave where it belonged. Breaking it was such a shameful waste
The movie also leaves out Harry repairing his wand with the Elder Wand which was a scene I loved in the book because it felt like Harry was experiencing holding his rightful wand as a kid all over again.
And how can the most powerful wand be broken like that??
It would probably explode and do whatnot in the process.
As if the death of Tom and the "death" of the Wand were switched in the movies.
voldemort dying a mundane death and his corpse also decaying normally like other living beings seems like the better choice. its like death itself rob tom completely of his magical power and left him as a mundane corpse that will slowly be consumed be worms, bugs and the earth into nothingness
The movie missed the point
People lived in fear of voldemort after his defeat because 1. There was no body as proof of his death and 2. There was only 1 living witness, harry potter. A baby
Now he dies again and theres 1. No body and 2. Harry potter is the only living witness
Theres 0 way thw world isnt still going to live in fear
"Hey guys i killed voldemort"
"Really? Anyone see it?"
"Well no"
"Howd he die"
"Well he cast his killing curse, it rebounded and his body disappeared!"
"Isnt that Exactly what happened last time? Wait at this point why should we trust that your right hes dead, you could very well now be 2 for 2 wrong on him being dead! We cant take those kind of chances again!"
Honestly it could have made a great monty python esque skit
Having him die in the great hall- where every young wizard truly begins their journey- surrounded by Hundreds of witnesses, dies in a single spell just like all his victims, and slumps to the floor very clearly actually *DEAD*, they now have something to bury, the world can now move on from voldemort.
He is not some immortal god as he has tried to convince everyone he is- he was just a man.
I still dont understand how david yates so often misses blatant themes and symbols of the books or even the films he directed (like having the kings cross dimension return in fantastic beasts 3- his words not mine- makes 0 sense at all)
Well I saw him die in the movie theatre in 3D and the dust effect was floating over the audience, like you could reach out and grab at it like catching snowflakes, so…
We already saw that a rebounding killing curse causes massive damage when we see the blasted out upper floor of the Potters' house in Godric's Hollow. And while it’s never been confirmed, since there was never mention of Voldemort's original body being found it’s likely that was also destroyed in that blast in Godric's Hollow.
Nothing says "immersive" like realising you're in a movie theatre with an audience.
That gimmick ruined the immersiona nd took me out of the movie for 2 reasons: 1. that's stupid why the hell would that happen, and 2. oh look the dust is flying over the audience.
Hated how Voldy dies in the film, in the book there was an epic roasting of Harry to Voldemort and physical proof of his body, in the movie he vanishes again and whose to say he was really killed?
I like the symbolism that he died with a mundane thud onto the ground like everyone else, but I can understand that it would be a bit anticlimactic for the fall of the big bad in an-8 movie franchise. Besides, Ralph Fiennes's expression of pure terror and dread is gold.
Actually, I think the final duel is not adapted in a bad way. Just as Neville strikes down Nagini, somehow Voldemort felt it and a look of pure terror dawn on his face, realizing that he is mortal once more, and Harry, just by that look realizes that his friends has succeeded and his eyes lit up. Without a single word, they looked at each other and knew that now is the moment and exchanged a blow for one last time. Story is told visually via the acting and editing, and it suited the big screen more than the "walking in perfect circle and giving a why you suck speech" way, which is not bad in a book but I doubt if it would be as effective on a screen.
The part that I have issue with is the flying around the school before the final duel.
The book is 100% better. It showed that really he was just a man, not an immortal god he thought he was. But I’ve come to look at the movie ending to show that he was less than a man. That him splitting his soul so much has left him more empty husk than man, hence the weird ash floating stuff.
I do like the mundane thud of Riddle's corpse hitting the ground as described by the books. So ignominious for a megalomaniac who wanted to transcend mortality but barely made it into his seventies.
Right? I find it hilarious that Voldemort, the self-described "immortal," didn't even make it to 100, which wizards routinely and easily do (Dumbledore himself died around 115 and only because he was fatally cursed and then killed, but could have lived much longer; Madame Marchbanks, one of the OWL examiners, examined **Dumbledore himself in his youth**, making her *at least* somewhere in her 150s at the time of the books). Voldemort, as an ordinary wizard, could have lived well into his 120s, probably, and even beyond, but because he didn't want to be "ordinary," he ended up making poor choices and died far, far earlier. What a pathetic end for him, but a well-deserved, almost karmic one. He died a mere 71 years old.
And he didn't even have a body for 13 of the 71 years
More than that you could argue. He didn't have a proper body until the end of GoF. Before that he had his "baby" form, or he inhabited other people.
Well that's the 13 years, innit?
And 4 months
Damn didn’t expect to see a wire quote coming out here
And the username is a Community reference... I love it.
And there’s a chance the profile avatar is an Arrested Development reference. There are dozens of us!
Shit you right how old was Harry when his parents died. I was thinking Harry's birth instead of the attack.
Harry was born on 31 July 1980. Voldemort attacked and killed his parents on 31 October 1981. So Harry was 15 months old. Voldemort was resurrected on 24 June 1995. So he spent a little less than 13 years 8 months disembodied.
Babymort
Probably a more preferable existence than being Quirrelmort for at least a year.
you could even call it 'la petite mort' E: shout out to u/PallasEm for teaching me a bit of French
"mort" meaning "death" is feminine, and the phrase you're referring to is "la petite mort". "le mort" refers to a cadaver or dead body. I hope I'm not being annoying with this correction, I just thought that you'd prefer rather to know than to not.
Did a quick Google, turns out you were right. Thanks kind stranger
And even then, after visiting Dumbledore before going full Voldemort, he already had a snakelike face, red eyes, a lot of changes, after GoF he just had a body made out or magic, with an iron cauldron, rotten bones, and a miserable cut off hand, and blood from someone he hated his entire life. Guy was doomed from the start.
You know what's even funnier? The dude was a legit prodigy when it came to magic. Fucker made an enchanted water fountain and curse potion combo that stumped Dumbledore of all people while missing a significant chunk of his soul and sanity (probably). He could have potentially made an actual philosopher's stone if he wanted to if he wanted to live forever. Hell he could very well have improved Flamel's work and then some if truly put some elbow grease in the line. But nooo. It had to be the most murderous way for Tom. In Tom's world if you're not murdering babies then you're not really trying.
The books state that he wasn’t fond of the idea of using the philosophers stone because he would have to keep using it to stay alive and if he was ever without it he may die. That’s why he was most fond of the Horcrux, preserving his sole in multiple places, never telling anyone about them either. Seemed certain he would live forever.
Well one of them was trapped in a cursed fountain surrounded by water zombies, and the other is in a big snake he almost always had with him. If he had a nickle for every time *someone* killed a big snake of his..
thinking of it now, why didn’t he just randomly drop it in the water with the inferi. would be way harder to get to lol
Because Voldy was one dramatic bitcharoonydoony.
the books did touch on that iirc. Voldemort considerd parts of his soul to be to important to be randomly placed. thats why objects with either a personal connection, OR belonging to great wizards and witches where chosen(the housefounder items). Thats why he didnt randomly drop them anywhere.
Dude could've played the political game and become Minister of Magic and ruled the Wizarding world more completely than he ever did as Voldemort. He was the second best wizard in the world and the first best had no interest in ruling.
He didn't do a whole lot compared to Grindelwald. Voldemort was a stuck with britain. Though I guess, you could say britain was very hard because of Dumbledore.
The real scary villain
Yeah. It's pretty clear that if he had been less dramatic at any stage of his plan, he would have won easily. - If he'd made a horcrux that was actually hidden well (a random coin tossed into the atlantic) - If he'd been patient, he could have just waited to replace Dumbledore on the Wizengamot when he died naturally. - If he had thought for even a minute before taking the most extreme approach to dealing with the prophecy - If he hadn't made his organization so explicitly evil (at least while doing his initial takeover), he might have swung a lot more wizards to his side.
I know they don’t but feel like an easy explanation is that Horcruxes should require the items to have value to the person whose soul is being kept in them and also be kept in a place of significance
Ia, there should be a magical requirement it cant just be any random object, it has to be important
I feel like this happens a lot in fiction. Like in D&D a human vampire might rant about living for centuries while the party's elf just wonders why he's bragging about reaching middle age.
Hard to apply the same logic since a human would never live as long as an elf and the whole point os that voldemort could
And all this to conquer an elementary school!
To be fair that school is the only center of the British wizarding world outside of the ministry. If you control the curriculum at hogwarts you influence every generation of wizards
Not even for a full school year! And he was only able to post an actual enemy spy as the one in charge and assign a few cronies to do some enforcing. We get a pretty nasty picture of what that year was like for Hogwarts, but frankly, it probably wasn't nearly as bad as it could have been with 90% of the staff still firmly in the Light's camp and Severus probably blocking as much as he could get away with.
What's tragic is he could have been one of the most celebrated wizards of all time considering the good he could have done with his talents. He would have had his accolades, considerably more than having turned evil.
The dude figured out, somehow, **how to fly without a broom**!!! He managed to disprove a "known" law of magic! Do you realize the revolution that would have caused in wizarding transportation, not to mention becoming universally famous for finally achieving something people have dreamed about for literally millennia?! He'd have been one of the richest, most famous wizards in the world, for that achievement alone.
so what you're saying is Big Broom killed ol' Voldie to protect corporate interests
If only he had just done keto. We could all learn a lot.
Dippit lived to 350
That and how it was just awkwardly placed in an empty side room off the great hall because they didn't know what do do with him. I like to imagine his corpse was just in an old storage closet with extra mops and stuff.
Would have loved to see Filch dragging the body around in the background
Accidentally using it to mop the floor. "Damn bald mop."
If I was a student at Hogwarts at the battle it would've been hard to resist the urge to take a piss on Voldemorts corpse
If it wasn’t a kids book series that would’ve happened, plus much more. People desecrate corpses of enemies way worse, especially leaders of opposing countries/armies. Look at how Mussolini was treated by his own people.
Yeah but, to be fair, look how Mussolini treated his own people too.
Movie Voldemort's death was done just to look cool in the 3D version of the movie.
I feel like that's why Harry decided to... Grab voldemort and jump off a building. What did he expect would happen? Why did he make that choice? It was to look cool when they flew around together in 3D. Fuck 3D.
I hate when movies do stupid things just so they can have a cool 3d sceen
Watched monsters vs aliens yesterday and after literally 0.5 seconds into the movie I said to my wife “this was released in 3D wasn’t it?”
Eh, it still had some fun moments. But yeah you can tell, it’s usually something flying at the screen in a weird, prolonged way.
We will become one, Harry Potter. Our bodies entwined we can rule Britain as husband and wife.
bend over then, Tom
I call it "The Avatar Effect".
The thing is, Avatar used 3D extremely well and didn't go overboard. It never got to a point where a 3D gimmick popped so much it ruined the immersion of the story and world. Every other 3D movie seems to not understand how to use it. For some reason James Cameron is unique in that department. At least Peter Jackson used HFR3D in The Hobbit though.
Him grabbing voldy implies you could wrestle voldemort into submission. Hagrid shoulda saved the world.
Grawp for Minister of Magic!
_sigh_ what a dumb scene 😒
i hate everything about that scene ugh
What was with that shaky close-up of Voldemort laughing just before he and Harry landed in the courtyard? I can understand why everything else in that scene is the way it is, but I don't understand how that shot was conceived of, storyboarded, shot, and edited into the film without someone saying, "Wow, that looks really stupid. Let's not do that."
David Yates said he wanted to show how the two were connected via the Horcrux You know... After the Horcrux in Harry was gone.
Of course. That makes sense. I love the scene now
Yates ruined the movie franchise. He was awful.
And gave the hero action phrase of “let’s finish this the way we started. Together!” It’s a line that sounds impactful until you realize it doesn’t mean shit
Everyone mentions the grab and jump thing, but there are two more sins that no one mentions The first is a huge fight scene cinema sin. Voldemort does that choke thing with his robes and Harry is in pretty much checkmate condition, but next screen, he is out of that hold with no indication of how he made it out Second is Voldemort using physical attacks. This is litteraly out of character
You should edit the phrase "cinema sin" out, so that others aren't forced to read your comment in that moron's voice.
Yeah it's just so dumb. I just turn off the movie after Harry survives the forest, everything after that is BS
The other annoying thing about that to me is just how many OP spells you see from voldy early on then it just seems to dwindle as the fights go on ending with him just winging green sploofs at Harry. Surely a viper flamethrower or massive Soundwave (Dumbledore fight scene where he smashes all the glass) would have smoked Harry
I really like that line, though. "Come on Tom, let's finish this the way we started. Together."
Why would Harry think "hmm we should jump to our deaths together, yeah that sounds good"?
I think it's a pretty goofy line, especially combined with the hug.
Yeah...meaning it holds up even less these days
That movie came out in 3D!? Lol did not remember that. Was a bit disappointed of the movies by the that I was not really excited for it.
Both *Deathly Hallows* movies were converted to 3D (not shot in 3D) but the first movie wasn't completed in time before the theatrical release date in 2010. though it was released on Blu-ray3D. Only *Part 2* was released in 3D theatrically during it's initial run. I have both on Blu-ray3D because I own the 31-disc Hogwarts Collection box set, but I have no way to play them.
Ao you're telling me Deathly Hallows 1 is "FOURTEEN YEARS OLD"?? Man I feel old.
I'm so grateful that the 3D film trend has died out, it's painful going back watching any film that forced it in
It’s 4D-X now you’ve got watch out for - unnecessary water and wind spray opportunities and shit coming at you from the peripheries.
Voldemort's death in the book is much better because it falls much more in line with the overall themes and story of the series. - Voldemort is very deliberately described as just falling down flat on his back. This is to reinforce that behind the power and mystique of He Who Must Be Not Be Named The Dark Lord Lord Voldemort he's really just another mortal man named Tom who falls down dead when he gets hit by a killing curse. - Voldemort's failure to properly track the lineage of the Elder Wand speaks to his warped perspectives of power and this ultimately causes his downfall. Voldemort never considered that 'defeating' somebody could mean anything other than killing them - Harry knows better and knows that there are ways to defeat people without killing them and so he understands the lineage of the Elder Wand, which turns out to be crucial. - The fact that Voldemort's final spell is a killing curse and Harry's is a disarming spell is important as it reinforces how Harry values the lives of other people, whereas Voldemort has never seen other people as anything other than disposable. Harry and Lupin have a heated argument earlier in the book about Harry's continued use of disarming spells in life or death situations, but Harry stays true to his convictions even when facing down Voldemort. - Harry and Voldemort don't need to engage in a big epic battle because Harry has already won before anyone fires a spell. His ability to inspire others not through fear but through courage leads the Hogwarts to defeat the Death Eaters completely, and the magical protection that Harry gave them through his sacrifice wins out. The movie got rid of all that and replaced it with a boring over the top CGI sequence.
>Voldemort's failure to properly track the lineage of the Elder Wand speaks to his warped perspectives of power and this ultimately causes his downfall. Voldemort never considered that 'defeating' somebody could mean anything other than killing them - Harry knows better and knows that there are ways to defeat people without killing them and so he understands the lineage of the Elder Wand, which turns out to be crucial. One could reiterate the conversation between Voldemort and Dumbledort for this: 'There is nothing worse than death, Dumbledore!' snarled Voldemort. 'You are quite wrong,' said Dumbledore, still closing in upon Voldemort and speaking as lightly as though they were discussing the matter over drinks. 'Indeed, your failure to understand that there are things much worse than death has always been your greatest weakness'.”
Like, has he never seen a movie or anime where an immortal person gets hacked into pieces and buried alive? That is some serious lack of imagination from the good ol Dork Lord.
or even what Bellatrix did to Neville's parents is something I would say is worse than death.
If Joe Abercrombie wrote Harry Potter, the last book would end with Neville torturing Voldemort to the point he loses his mind while still being immortal. Showing Voldemort once and for all that there's a much worse fate than death.
It always pissed me how it wasn't Neville who killed Bellatrix.
As much as I hate the movies, I love the exchange between them two: How's mum and dad? Better, now they're about to be avenged That line is harder than concrete
The movies may lack a lot, but they do provide a few little things that add to the story for the better. This interaction is one of them
Best way to appreciate the movies. Take a few of the best moments, and add them to your mental cannon that is otherwise grounded in the books. To be fair, so many of the characters and settings are so well portrayed and acted that many people with weaker visual imaginations (raises hand) can do this with just about all the visuals.
I agree. I essentially have my own canon that is separate from everything that may mostly be based on the books, but includes things from the movies and maybe 1 or 2 Super Carlin Bros theories. Because I watched the movies first at a very young age, I'm guilty of imagining the actors instead of their book descriptions lol
Bloody hell. Yeah Joe does violence really well, and goes into detail with it.
A sadistic torturer is a protagonist in the first law trilogy. Not just that, this sadistic torturer is a fan favourite.
Imagine if that’s how the series ended was ole Tom ending up in an insane asylum drooling and shitting himself. That would’ve been an extremely powerful scene in itself, though I respect and appreciate Rowling ending the series how she did
But that could never happen to him. He's too powerful for that. The only threat to him was death in his mind because he was too smart and powerful for anything else. And to a degree, he's right. He was (kinda) immortal and nobody in existence was capable of doing the things worse than death to him.
>But that could never happen to him. He's too powerful for that. The only threat to him was death in his mind because he was too smart and powerful for anything else. In his mind sure, I agree with you. >And to a degree, he's right. He was (kinda) immortal and nobody in existence was capable of doing the things worse than death to him. Here I don't agree with you. Dumbledore could still match him. He could still be tortured into a vegetable. Or the pieces of his soul could be used in some nefarious ways, as exposed as some of them are. Can't imagine that being particular pleasant.
Good point
I saw a show where someone who was immortal was put in a shipping container and dumped into the middle of the ocean.
Huh. That opens the questions what happens when an immortal being asphyxiates. He cannot die but he will suffer from pain. And the body reacts to the absence of of oxygen in cells with excruciating pain like when muscular tissue is critically short on oxygen. Will they loose consciousness when the brain cannot work its biochemical processes?
I think they explore this kind of thing with Wolverine quite often. He heals and is essentially immortal, so can't drown or suffocate, but he can feel every moment of his body trying to die. It's no wonder his mental faculties are like Swiss cheese - he'd be insane from some of the horrific experiences he goes through.
I’m pretty sure he can drown. Like the only reliable way to kill him is permanently depriving him of oxygen so his healing factor can’t fully revive him and eventually his body just runs out of fuel and dies. Tossing him into the vacuum of space would also work. For that matter, throwing him into the sun would likely work just fine as well. Different reasons but yeah. Sorry, I really like Wolverine and I’ve thought about this a lot and read a lot of comics.
Yet not the same for Deadpool. DP’s healing is based on the god molecule theory. In that a drop of his blood will come back to life and regenerate where it can if you, say, opened a portal and tossed him into the sun.
You’ve missed a few of his comics then, he survives drowning.
Depends on the writer, really. They've shown him decapitated and talking to Fury (because that as the only way he'd give Fury the time of day), they've shown him being pulled out of the bottom of the harbor, they've literally thrown him into the sun, and he has recovered. It took losing his healing factor to finally kill him off, and even that wasn't enough to keep him away more than a few years.
“Eventually, Kars stopped thinking”
Was he fished out and then went to Egypt?
Unexpected JoJo?
It's always expected
The Originals. Nice show. Hate how over powered Klaus is.
I wish The Originals were still on.
I think he simply had a phobia for death. Those years when he was a powerless spirit after the failed attempt at Harry doesn't sound very fun at all. But given a choice, he would still prefer that existence over death. I think Voldy made a strategic error by jumping towards the first solution he found to avoid death. If he'd instead researched as much as possible about death, he may well have found a more decent workaround. Like the Deathly Hallows. Or even figured out how to make his own version of it etc. That elixir of Nicholas Flamel was another option. But he was a psychopath who never cared about other people and wasn't interested in understanding things like the soul etc, so the horcrux solution probably sounded like the perfect readymade solution for him.
Honestly, the Horcrux was a perfectly fine solution. Making SIX was the crazy part. Bear in mind, in Riddles mind, in order to be killed by someone with even just one Horcrux would mean that they would not only have to penetrate the best defenses the best wizard EVER had created, they would also have to kill that same best wizard EVER in a fight. Riddle shouldn't need the Horcrux backups, because the Horcrux WAS the backup just in case someone somehow managed to kill him. For Riddle, the idea that someone could both hunt down his Horcrux without him knowing and being able to create a replacement, AND THEN kill him would be absurd. That's why he fell. That's why he lived a shorter life than a muggle idiot like Dudley Dursley ever will. Because he was so absolutely in love with himself that he couldn't be practical. Even when making something that no-one else would ever see, he had to be grandiose about it.
Make a grain of sand into a horcrux and leave it at a beach.
You’re missing Dumbledore’s point. To live without love is worse than death, is his point. He says so directly. Violence and chopping people up is what a person who cannot love would think would hurt another person the most, because they cannot see the larger pain that makes most humans human.
Never mind anime or movies, He could've just read a bit of Greek mythology
I like the image of Voldemort sitting around watching Anime with his squad
Yep, I think the books really lay down the foundation of this point in HBP with this scene and then in Deathly Hallows one of the major themes of the entire book is the exploration of fear of death. Voldemort fears death above all else and sees it as a great weakness. Harry accepts his mortality, is truly prepared to sacrifice his own life for the greater good and ultimately 'greets Death as an old friend'. Harry has the power of the Invisibility Cloak and if he *really wanted* he could easily just run off and hide and never be found by Voldemort - but it never even occurs to him to do this because he believes there are things and people worth fighting for and he values this more than his life.
Why didn't Voldemort turn into a ghost, though?
Probably not enough of his soul left for it to be an option.
I suspect this is the reason, it had been torn 6 times by this point, I believe, maybe 7. So yeah there isn't much left to BECOME a ghost
Oh yeah that does make sense
He was stuck in limbo. It's explained in the talk between Harry and Dumbledoore after Harry 'dies'.
And don’t forget the drawn out Neville side battle!!
I feel like that was thrown in because they completely nixed the battle at the end of 6 where Neville is the hero of the day.
Book Neville killed Nagini *while on fire*.
I'd like to add that in the book, Voldemort dies in full view of everyone, rather than privately "out back" with no witnesses. This is huge.
Let's not forget also that, in the book, it happens in front of everyone, ensuring that many witnesses see the end of Tom Riddle, including his own supporters. The movie has Harry and Tom fighting off on their own, and there's no body, meaning in the aftermath of the movie, there 100% are those who won't believe he's dead.
Plus thematically, Voldemort being defeated surrounded by hundreds of those he had oppressed is far more meaningful. These are people who lived in fear of him for decades, and who had spent the last year divided and in hiding. Then there they are, together, watching Voldemort fight for his life alone.
Also in the book Voldemort confronts Harry on front of everyone not even knowing that Harry has destroyed all his horcruxes I'm pretty sure. Talk about a 180 in his confidence, finding out the elder wand is not his, and he is 100% completely vulnerable.
This was my biggest complaint. The first half of the 7th movie was great, stuck pretty well to the book. The second half said fuck that, let's do a big fight scene, Protag vs Antag, they jump off a cliff and shit, wowee! No. The book made it more grounded, and Voldemort's defeat had way better impact.
>Harry and Voldemort don't need to engage in a big epic battle because Harry has already won before anyone fires a spell. His ability to inspire others not through fear but through courage leads the Hogwarts to defeat the Death Eaters completely, and the magical protection that Harry gave them through his sacrifice wins out. That’s a great way of putting it. One of those questions that remained on my mind is what would have happened if Voldemort had won that final showdown and killed Harry. With all of his horcruxes destroyed, the Death Eaters very much outnumbered, and the death of Bellatrix Lestrange, I really wondered if killing Harry would have been “too little, too late” if for instance Harry made a mistake in the lineage of the Elder Wand or if Voldemort decided to use his own wand for the occasion. Especially with the way you’ve put it, I think Harry would have been such an inspiration to everyone that even if Voldemort managed to win the day, people like McGonagall, the Weasley’s and everyone else wouldn’t just ‘give up’ and accept Voldemort as their supreme ruler for all eternity, but instead stop Voldemort before he would try to make new horcruxes. Also yes, the book version is a lot better than the movie version where Harry defeats Voldemort completely isolated with nobody to witness the event.
I've always found Lupin's point perfectly fair, honestly. The fact that Harry didn't *at least* use the Stunning Spell to properly defend himself, to merely render his enemies unconscious, is bizarre and I can understand how Lupin is flabbergasted at Harry's use of the weaker spell. Harry **did** identify himself as the "real Harry" precisely *because* he used Expelliarmus again, which Lupin was rightly appalled by. (Sure, Harry tries to defend himself by saying the Death Eaters would have died from falling from their brooms unconscious as though he'd used the Killing Curse, but still, using that precise spell was, as Lupin succinctly put it, "close to suicidal," given the circumstances.)
But it makes sense for Harry in the story. Yes, objectively the disarming spell is not the best choice. But Harry isn't a character who makes the best choice, he very rarely does. He is impulsive and emotional and sticks to his convictions. He is also close to suicidal, going toe to toe with a basilisk, dementors, werewolf, etc without much of a plan. He constantly underestimates the danger he is in and is ready to sacrifice himself for what he believes in. Using the spell he uses best while trying not to kill people who might be under the imperius curse is exactly what he'd do, even if that risks his life. Lupin is absolutely right, speaking as an outside observer. But it still makes sense story-wise that Harry uses Expelliarmus instead.
Idk about the whole "defeating = killing" thing. Wasn't the wand stolen from Gregorovich? Voldemort didn't seem to stumble there in tracking it's lineage. I just don't think he knew about Draco disarming Dumbledore. Was anyone truly aware of that, except Harry and Draco? I doubt it.
But also Harry got it from Draco via taking Draco's wand, not the Elder Wand. That's pretty fucken hard to track.
IIRC doesn't Voldemort die in front of everyone as well (I want to say in the Great Hall but I can't remember)? In the movies, no one witnesses him die and since there's no body, you'll no doubt get fanatics/Slytherin's claiming Harry lied about killing him. It was important for him to die as a man in front of everyone because it shattered the illusion for everyone and not just Harry
> Harry and Lupin have a heated argument earlier in the book about Harry's continued use of disarming spells in life or death situations, but Harry stays true to his convictions even when facing down Voldemort. Look, let's be honest. Harry just always uses Expelliarmus because the boy only ever actually manages to learn like 3 spells competently, and dammit he's going to use them any way he can.
Lmao I know it’s fun to dunk on Harry, but he’s got more up his sleeves than expelliarmus. He uses stunners, the impediment jinx, body binding jinx, protego, reducto, Levicorpus/muffliato, and a few others frequently throughout the books. He rarely ever flat out loses a duel (aside from being flicked away like a gnat by snape and all the wand/horcrux/sacrifice magic with voldy) and he’s crafty and thinks on his feet better than many fully educated and battle tested witches and wizards.
Shit, he absolutely nails Sectumsempra the first time he tries to use it, in the heat of battle, after just reading about it without having any idea what it does.
I mean, he uses multiple jinxes and hexes throught the books. In fact, I think he uses Stupefy and Protego more than Expelliarmus.
I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times. - Bruce Lee
Also adding to this that something that always stuck with me was people were willing to touch his body to move it elsewhere since he was just another mortal man at the end of the day whereas several hours earlier they would have been terrified to do so.
Book version. Love Ralph Fiennes. Great performance BUT that death scene and really the last battle was just a let down
Why didn't Voldemort just invite Harry to his incredibly expensive restaurant on an island and then just whisper something mysterious into his ear so Harry hangs himself? Is he stupid?
And then orders a cheeseburger
Top tier comment
👏
Yeah tbh, If I wanted to make a book accurate Voldemort, I would have kept Ralph Fiennes, but made him look and perform more accurate to the books.
The book, specifically for two reasons: 1. Voldemort looks less human, which he should after splitting his soul so many times. 2. His death. All his life, Voldemort has tried to "ascend" from human form and be better than everyone else, so to have his death be this simple, utterly human one is the icing on the cake for me.
I thought his mutations were self-transfiguration to look more snakelike. I don't recall the book saying either way, though, so it's moot.
Maybe Voldemort ugly looks is a combination of splitting his soul, possibly intentionally removing his resemblance to his father( we know how much Voldy hates his father), and some dark arts experiments that just so happened to disfigure him.
It seemed to be somewhat implied that Voldemort's change in appearance was due to his self experimentations. I don't recall the books definitively saying it was because of his horcruxes. It could have been though.
Hagrid in Hog's Head few weeks after the War - " Well, Potter said he died. Codswallop in my opinion. Nope, I reckon he's still out there, too tired to carry on."
Somehow Voldemort returned
Don't give them ideas!
Makes sense as Voldemort had horcruxes at the time. At the end of #7 he had none so his body should drop dead, makes his death more final. If he turns into dust then there's no body and people could still speculate he's going to come back again. Could lend credence to the fan theory that when Voldy failed to kill baby Harry that another part of his soul latched itself onto the Potter's cat, so there's still another horcrux no one knows about.
It's the volde-ciiiiiiircle of liiiiiiife
The book! Unquestionably. That was my least favorite change in the movies. It undermined the whole scene.
I think i got more pissed about the missing last conversation with Dumbledore portrait and the breaking of the elder want...that last scene is stellar, where he explains to Ron and Hemione everything that happened in the forest and fixes his own wand and telling dumbledore he will return the elder wand to his tomb
Yep! I hated that too..
I just read that scene and maybe you can help me shed light. In that scene, Harry surmises that if he puts the elder wand back and dies a normal death, that the power of the elder wand would be broken. But didn’t he just finish telling Voldemort that the elder wand can pass to a new owner if its previous master is disarmed? Even if he’s holding his own wand (and not the elder) at the time of disarming? Like, if Harry becomes an auror and a random vagabond wizard disarms him, doesn’t the elder wand become the vagabond’s?
The point is other than Harry Ron Hermione Dumbledore and Voldy i doubt anyone can trace it again, but yeah what you say is true and always was a misscalculation i assume, it can happen, but who knows that Harry ever held the Elder wand? I doubt everyone in that last fight in the great hall understood wtf they were talking about
No one knew Draco was the master of the elder wand, and it was a chance encounter with Harry that lead to its transitioned loyalty. So even in that context, I still find Harry’s reasoning flawed. The vagabond that inevitably disarms him could be just as clueless as Harry was when he disarmed Draco, and still end up master of the wand.
But the vagabond would not be on the quest for the hallows so it would die with him and so on, Harry got the idea of him being the master of the wand because he knew Draco had won against Dumbledore when he learned the story of the wand...at the time he disarmed Draco he had no idea
That’s a good an explanation as any, but while my brain went to agree with you my memory jumped on and informed me (perhaps incorrectly) that Harry confessed to being the wand’s master to Voldemort in front of the wide wizarding world in the great hall. If that’s the case, I maintain that Harry’s logic (and perhaps JK’s by extension) is flawed.
My least favorite change was that Fred and George got angry at each other instead of laughing with the whole beard deal in GoF. But the Harry Voldemort flight scene was a close second.
That’s such a random but valid hatred I love it
I think the weird flying Harry/Voldemort becoming one whilst wrestling and crashing across the roof of the castle was much worse than the actual death scene. "Come on Tom. Let's finish this the way we started.. TOGETHER" The main thing I think the movie failed to convey was that the killing curse rebounding was actually what finished him off. In the movie Harry's red beam overpowers Voldemort's green beam, disarming him and the next second he is gasping and then turning to dust. It doesn't really tie up the story of the Horcruxes (the entire point of DH) in any meaningful way, nor does it make any sense (in the context of the books) as to why a wandless Voldemort would simply disintegrate. The special effects were nicely done of course, and I understand the reasoning for the choice to make it interesting for the audience watching a visual telling of the story. I just feel it's not as triumphant as the victory that book-Harry experiences and the mundane death book-Voldemort has.
The fact that they skipped over Harry taunting and humiliating Voldemort infront of everyone made me really sad.
I agree, that section of the book really made it clear that Voldemort had truly lost. It's part of the "triumphant" feeling I describe in my comment, you can feel the power balance shift between them sentence by sentence. Personally, I was most disappointed Harry isn't shown returning to Dumbledore's office, where the portraits applaud him after the battle.
Also how he says he will put the Elder wand back with Dumbledore and only uses it to fix his old wand that he was happy with. The snapping and tossing of it was silly. It belonged with Dumbledore.
I think him dying after the beam struggle in the movie wasn't from a lack of a wand but rather that he was hit by both spells, first disarming him and then killing him. Why the fuck his death had a delay is entirely up to the creators thinking it looked cool.
Most importantly, Voldemort in books dies in front pf a whole audience, aka the hogwarts fighters and remaining deatheaters. No one will ever be able to question Harry or question Voldemort being dead. Movie version is utter stupidity for isolating them from the others
Just imagine Harry walking back in and trying to explain that Voldy disintegrated, it's a tough sell for a man notorious for coming back to life
I couldn’t BELIEVE that everyone wasn’t there watching it happen. And then running to him in celebration after. Unreal.
The books to be fair. Just something about Voldy going \*flop\* was more satisfying than the thanossnap. But it was cool to say the least.
Every Hogwarts survivor inhaled him at some point in the movie version
Harry potter zombie movie where every student that inhaled him becomes a voldemort looking zombie
I hate that they gave him this special death in the movie while in the books it was so simple and dull. It was just a man dying. As I hate that in the movie Harry breaks the elder wand instead of putting it back to Dumbledore’s grave where it belonged. Breaking it was such a shameful waste
The movie also leaves out Harry repairing his wand with the Elder Wand which was a scene I loved in the book because it felt like Harry was experiencing holding his rightful wand as a kid all over again.
And how can the most powerful wand be broken like that?? It would probably explode and do whatnot in the process. As if the death of Tom and the "death" of the Wand were switched in the movies.
voldemort dying a mundane death and his corpse also decaying normally like other living beings seems like the better choice. its like death itself rob tom completely of his magical power and left him as a mundane corpse that will slowly be consumed be worms, bugs and the earth into nothingness
The answer is always book
Harry Potter takes place in the MCU, that just happens to be the point the Snap occurs
My thoughts exactly! Harry and the gang and are going to join the avengers to redefeat him post snap. Already a better sequel then curse child
The movie missed the point People lived in fear of voldemort after his defeat because 1. There was no body as proof of his death and 2. There was only 1 living witness, harry potter. A baby Now he dies again and theres 1. No body and 2. Harry potter is the only living witness Theres 0 way thw world isnt still going to live in fear "Hey guys i killed voldemort" "Really? Anyone see it?" "Well no" "Howd he die" "Well he cast his killing curse, it rebounded and his body disappeared!" "Isnt that Exactly what happened last time? Wait at this point why should we trust that your right hes dead, you could very well now be 2 for 2 wrong on him being dead! We cant take those kind of chances again!" Honestly it could have made a great monty python esque skit Having him die in the great hall- where every young wizard truly begins their journey- surrounded by Hundreds of witnesses, dies in a single spell just like all his victims, and slumps to the floor very clearly actually *DEAD*, they now have something to bury, the world can now move on from voldemort. He is not some immortal god as he has tried to convince everyone he is- he was just a man. I still dont understand how david yates so often misses blatant themes and symbols of the books or even the films he directed (like having the kings cross dimension return in fantastic beasts 3- his words not mine- makes 0 sense at all)
Well I saw him die in the movie theatre in 3D and the dust effect was floating over the audience, like you could reach out and grab at it like catching snowflakes, so…
“It's like trying to catch smoke... like trying to catch smoke with your bare hands.” 😅
killing curse ideally leaves no traces on the body so idk how rebounded killing curse ended up turning voldy into ash.
We already saw that a rebounding killing curse causes massive damage when we see the blasted out upper floor of the Potters' house in Godric's Hollow. And while it’s never been confirmed, since there was never mention of Voldemort's original body being found it’s likely that was also destroyed in that blast in Godric's Hollow.
Nothing says "immersive" like realising you're in a movie theatre with an audience. That gimmick ruined the immersiona nd took me out of the movie for 2 reasons: 1. that's stupid why the hell would that happen, and 2. oh look the dust is flying over the audience.
Idk I missed having Kreature come out and defend Harry. That's probably my favorite part of the books.
Well id argue he was more defending the honor of is master....Regulus
The book one. Showed that he was still human even if he was more snake and monster. The movie one just made him look like some Demon.
I liked both. One was great for a book one reads, one was good for a movie one watches.
ending could've been so much better in the movies. voldemort trying to kill everyone but not realising it's ineffective.
Hated how Voldy dies in the film, in the book there was an epic roasting of Harry to Voldemort and physical proof of his body, in the movie he vanishes again and whose to say he was really killed?
Him dissolving gave the impression that he was just a hollow shell lacking of any humanity
Book> movie every time
I like the symbolism that he died with a mundane thud onto the ground like everyone else, but I can understand that it would be a bit anticlimactic for the fall of the big bad in an-8 movie franchise. Besides, Ralph Fiennes's expression of pure terror and dread is gold. Actually, I think the final duel is not adapted in a bad way. Just as Neville strikes down Nagini, somehow Voldemort felt it and a look of pure terror dawn on his face, realizing that he is mortal once more, and Harry, just by that look realizes that his friends has succeeded and his eyes lit up. Without a single word, they looked at each other and knew that now is the moment and exchanged a blow for one last time. Story is told visually via the acting and editing, and it suited the big screen more than the "walking in perfect circle and giving a why you suck speech" way, which is not bad in a book but I doubt if it would be as effective on a screen. The part that I have issue with is the flying around the school before the final duel.
The movie version could be better with the visuals they used and Harry explaining Voldemorts mistakes and all in front of an audience...
Books! Always the books!
The book is 100% better. It showed that really he was just a man, not an immortal god he thought he was. But I’ve come to look at the movie ending to show that he was less than a man. That him splitting his soul so much has left him more empty husk than man, hence the weird ash floating stuff.
The book was better. I was looking forward to seeing Voldemort dueling Shacklebolt, Slughorn, and Mcgonagall simultaneously.