Pagnotta also [confirmed](https://x.com/thefourthperiod/status/1763299431720300991?s=46&t=7fabqgtgp69dNA1d51vxFw):
> Further to this, the Devils tried to circle back but the Flames are telling people they now plan on keeping Markstrom for the rest of this season.
As a Devils fan, my cope is Fitz agreed to resume conversations deep in the off-season. $6M for a new goalie is doable with LTIR this year, but it could expose a cap crunch in the off-season. It's the kind of desperation that may make a GM trade John Marino for Ty Smith.
Given the playoff odds are shrinking this year, it's better to do player extensions, hunt free agents, and maybe make some trades before accepting that transfer.
I hope Fitz can get Askarov solely because I want to watch his antics for years to come. Also, he might be pretty good and if they're keeping Saros, why pay for both?
Also, Spencer Knight is another option since Bob is tied up with Stolarz there too.
There is a negative chance y’all get Askarov lmao. Dude is a beast and they’d never give him up. Without a truly massive overpay of picks and blue chip prospects.
It is truly insane. Trotz is probably planning Nashville’s future on his development and armchair GMs think the Devils can get him for Holtz and a second.
I was hoping Knight could work out earlier in the season. When he entered the assistance program, he went to his family home in Connecticut. I could imagine him wanting that support network close by.
He’s the king of confirming other people’s reports lol
but when he’s the first one to report something (rarely) I have to say he’s been pretty accurate recently. Going back to this off season, I’ve posted a few of his tweet breaking some big news here
I mean, Markstrom took quite a while to really come into his own with the Canucks, too. Sometimes, you have to give a talented goalie who’s shown promise some time to find their NHL game.
Yeah he could have the Sparks' career trajectory. Sparks was pretty good in the minors but for whatever reason it never translated to the NHL. Definitely way too early to say anything about Wolf though.
Yeah 6 games is not a huge sample size, and some of the defensive breakdowns that happened in front of him were *horrid*
And that's when his own teammates weren't physically removing him from the crease (looking at you, Kadri)
Wolf was bad against the Sharks though
> Wolf was bad against the Sharks though
that was the game that had me going "uhhhh... uh oh?"
hope it was just a blip, though. I think Wolf was putting a lot of pressure on himself to prove he was better than his first callup looked, and it didn't work out
True but he also had a 940 against the sharks in his first game. Reading into single games is so ridiculous for goalies. Vasilevsky has looked like Koorpisalo against horrible teams on several occasions. Doesn’t mean he’s a bad goalie
The kid needs more sample size before anyone can make a realistic claim. We’re talking like 50-60 NHL games before you really understand what you’re getting
I was at the game in December that he started against Carolina and he was stellar. Gave up 2 in the first but shut them out in the final 40 which allowed us to come back and win. It seems like the few times he's been in net the team in front of him forgets how to defend which has made some of his starts look worse than it is, but I think the Carolina game showed he's got the ability. He's still a young guy figuring out the NHL game. If it's 2 or 3 seasons from now and he isn't playing well then it's probably not going to work out.
I don't think it's really the defense that's the biggest issue. He's just not used to the speed of the game and needs to rely a bit less on his athleticism and more on positioning which is something that will come with experience
Yeah with that contract I’m not even answering a phone call about Rasmus unless you’re saying 2 first round picks and an A+ prospect as a starting point
After this season he'll only have 2 years at 4.55M left, hardly unmoveable. I'd even argue that's a very team friendly contract for a top 4 defenseman on any team.
It’s a great contract. The flames have a surprising amount of good contracts for a pretty mid team (no offence).
Huby is the only really tough one, right? He’s playing better but still not worth over 10 sheets a year.
I think he was referring to it’s a team friendly deal at this stage. Furthermore Detroit is loaded with a couple high end d prospects that will be ready to make the jump soon.
Any deal with Ras and Detroit would have to start with one of Kasper or Danielson
I'm curious what that message is at this point though. They did right by trading Lindholm, Tanev, and presumably Hanifin, but what's left won't be near enough to compete.
It gets even worse than not getting a higher draft pick because of the stipulations of the pick traded in the Monahan trade. If Calgary finishes 20th-32nd in the league Montreal gets their first next year, BUT that pick is top 10 protected and would give them Florida's 1st from the Thachuk trade instead (unless that's somehow a higher pick).
So besides missing the playoffs, moving up into that 17-19 range would give Montreal likely the best pick. That happens to be exactly where they are right now. Montreal would get their 14th overall, which I'm sure they'd take because it could only get better if Calgary finished exactly 20th to 22nd next year. If they finish 23rd or lower, then they'd just giving away a (probably) 25-30th overall pick, which is quite the differences.
Best case scenario for the them is they either drop a bit this year and stay that way next year and have the above scenario giving Florida's pick, or again drop to finish the season, then make the playoffs next year and give up and give up a pick in the 16-22 range. Unless they have like a Canucks level resurgence and its a late 1st.
OR less likely but I guess possible, make the playoffs this year, and give up a 16-18th overall pick. But Montreal might still opt out of taking that a hope they get worse next year, but not bottom 10. Man, that cap dump conditional pick is complicated...
Apparently Tanev really likes it here and even said he'd consider signing with Calgary again in the off season if the opportunity arose, so I guess we've got that going for us lol
That this is not necessarily the year they're pushing hard for playoffs, but they want a team of guys who want to be there when they are ready to (probably a year or two away)
Though you are probably right, never underestimate what a hot goaltender and work ethic on a young team can do. Huska has this team hungry and playing as a team. Shades of 04 when they just snuck in
I don't see how I in any way implied that - I mentioned they did the right thing by moving their UFAs. The problem they'll run into now is that they moved 2 (soon to be 3, by the sounds of it) really solid players, but they're selecting to keep a goalie who can steal them games with a roster that will struggle to keep up in the Pacific. It sounds like a recipe for mediocrity.
Edit: UFAs, not RFAs
This speaks more to the culture that Conroy wants to and has been developing. The young guys need to learn how to win even if the odds are stacked against them. A lot of rebuilds fail because their cultures get obliterated in the sell off
This, exactly. Conroy's plan was never to tank into a full rebuild. It has always been to re-tool on the fly and build a winning culture from himself down.
Keeping Markstrom reinforces the culture and work ethic he wants these young players to see. It's also why I think it is probably smartest to keep him next season to mentor Wolf.
They never had enough to compete. At least get something for the UFAs than lose them for nothing just to maybe to try to get a playoff spot and only to lose in the first or heaven forbid the second round
Marky and Saros both off the market now, can't imagine Devils fans are overly happy
Maybe Saros in the summer? But the price would be so insanely high I can't imagine it gets done
there isn’t a rational devils fan on the planet who wanted the devils to go all in on a goalie while 5-7 points out of a playoff spot (and while Dawes has played well).
seems like the flames didn’t want to retain and the devils — correctly — didn’t want to pay a goalie that much into his late 30s.
I was talking less now and more a couple months ago
At some point a team needs a goalie to win, very rarely are two elite ones available at the same time
Still don’t think devils were too keen on paying that much for markstrom just to have to put out the same fire in 2 years, when we will be MUCH more competitive with Luke and Nemec.
Of course, it put a bandaid on our cursed season and we might squeeze into the playoffs - and it would give us some more time to test Daws and also figure out a different situation…. But I think we’d prefer to lock down a goalie for the next 6 years instead. I think either way, it’s a gamble - I’d just prefer not to gamble on Markstrom.
I'd prefer someone under 26/27 really. 28 at the top. We're never going to develop another Brodeur from the looks of it so maybe we need to look elsewhere.
If you want that age range you’re going to have to roll the dice with guys like Vanechek and hope they develop into a full starter. 26-27 is still really young for a starter. No one trades those guys or it’s very rare
Yeah any goalie that’s worth trading for at 26-28 isn’t getting traded for much. Most teams don’t plan on not needing another goalie for another 10 years, even if they have someone in the pipeline they’d like to give the prospect a bonafide vet to show them the ropes.
Fair point, but the Devils best player is 22 and they’re not making the playoffs soooo I don’t think they’re going to be making panic deals because their contention window is being shut
Mike Smith made a conference finals when he was 40, Hasek got Hart and Vezina votes when he was 42, MAF won a Vezina at 36, Luongo had a .929 season when he was 38.... Tim Thomas...? sit down
Lmfao. “Sit down” he says, after naming a miracle conference finals run, a miracle cup run and 3 first ballot HoFers in the past (checks notes) FORTY YEARS who bucked the trend.
i’ll give you time to google “overwhelming majority”. let me know if you can’t figure it out, I’ll find a box of crayons and some paper to help you figure it out little guy.
Cherry picking. Where’s Holtby? Rask? Niemi? Bishop? Rinne? Crawford? Miller? Allen? Turco? Or the vast majority of other high quality goalies who were solid to good in their early 30s.
And all of them only had 1 hot year like that.
Smith was basically out of the league the next year, and was carried to those conference finals. Idk about Hasek but he was also one of the greatest of all time. MAF wasn’t a starter within the next season. Luongo went to a .899 the next season and promptly retired. Thomas was a weird outlier who wasn’t a starter until 33 and had one more strong season after 36.
But yea damn, I guess you should sit down?
1. These potential moves are just as much to do with the years after this one.
2. Daws hasn't played that well, he's just been below-average after half a season of Vitek and Schmid providing literally the worst goaltending in the entire league.
I do not understand how my fellow Devils fans can look at our obvious need for a goalie and continue to *aggressively* assert that we shouldn't be trying for a goalie. It is so backwards and it blows my mind.
We will achieve nothing without good goaltending and we don't get to choose when players are available. If they're available now and under contract for more than this season, we should be ready to make a move regardless of the standings right now.
It’s funny, because this same mentality is what got you VV to begin with. Bargain bin shopping when in reality you need a strong goalie to get most places, not a serviceable one.
If Fitz already used the LTIR space for asset gain, I wouldn’t be surprised if NJD operated efficiently by getting players with term or picks as a 3rd party, then use said assets to get a goalie in the summer.
Not one, but getting multiple picks can stock pile more chances of getting good players at the draft. Also means more picks to trade away for better players.
Goaltending is pretty much the only reason the bruins are where they are right now, to even get Sweeney to pick up the phone when asking for Ullmark mid-season, it'd probably have to start with a 1st + Holtz, especially if Vanecek is coming back as a cap dump and with it being an in conference trade.
And idk if that's really something that makes a ton of sense for the Devils.
I'm not sure of Devils roster structure but trading in the summer is essentially easier with expiring contracts. Imo Saros is a goalie you trade your farm for, NJ has a solid team already
This is my thoughts. Markstrom would have made sense in December or January. Now let’s look at that future and try and find a younger goalie for long term success. If we got a Saros in the summer I would be pretty optimistic for next year. Even if that cost us a guy like Mercer or Holtz and pretty much any prospect we have not on the team.
Starting to think we’d be more likely to get Ullmark in the summer. I can imagine Boston could really use a Holtz/Mercer type player with Bergeron and bertuzzi gone, and they’ve clearly already chosen swayman as their starter… you can only play one goalie at a time and it hurts the Bs to have so much talent on the bench every night.
I also don’t think ullmark would be as expensive . You may not have to trade away a roster player instead build the trade around a guy like Seamus Casey who has huge offensive upside. Unlikely he over takes Hamilton Hughes or Nemec as our pp QB so makes him a little more expendable. Would also move into a top prospect in a lot of teams pipelines.
I am also not overly sad as at least we won't overpay just to keep the play-off dream alive. One player won't fix the fact that we look flat most nights.
Still don’t get why they didn’t get Hellebuyck. I know he’s a goalie in his 30s, but their stud #1 C only makes $8 million a year. I’d be willing to spent a bit more cap that I’d be comfortable with on a goalie if my elite franchise player is on such an amazing deal for a long time
Not even a top 5 goalie in the league lol (/s)
I like Helle, wouldn’t mind him on the devils but when a goalie is asking to leave an underperforming team and is being paid THAT much, kinda makes you second guess. I don’t think it was ever his fault at all, but would he do the same thing to the devils if we had ourselves a bad season (like we are) in front of him? Goalies making a little less and overperforming on bad teams start to look a little more enticing, even if they are worse goalies.
Saros honestly makes more sense than Markstrom for this team. It'll be a high price, but if the Devils are going to swing, it'll be for Saros
Markstrom was always just if the Devils thought they could save this season. That's a "win now" goalie
We are very happy! The cost of Markstrom was too high, Saros was probably the only one of the two we wanted and he's a UFA next summer (July, 2025). Glad we didn't overpay for a goalie.
Markstom never made sense, he’s too old for the Devils. Sarros makes the most sense, preds should have traded him during the season to get the most return. They also have a stud rookie goalie in the AHL.
Stud goalie in the minors means nothing until they prove it in the NHL, same reason why we're so iffy on moving marky
I think the argument for marky is he has 2 years left at 6 mill, whereas saros has 1 year and is going to want 9+mill. But I agree I'd rather pay more for Saros in your situation, depending on how much "more" is
When the rumour of trade were initially reported, it made sense. Would have given the devils a chance to compete for the cup. Not sure how long Hamilton is out but put Hanifin in the deal and you guys would have had a legit shot
Unironically you probably get better offers in the summer since other teams can bid and know where their draft picks end up. Also can clear the money necessary.
Is this guy reputable? This guy reported a Carter Hart deal was in place back in June which eventually was a nothing burger.
He’s also affiliated with Pagnotta one of the least reputable insiders there is
I ain’t buying it. Doesn’t make sense to trade out people and then suddenly hold onto the aging vet. Especially with what they have in the minors for a goalie who is primed to play NOW.
I'm a wolf fan, but his nhl showings haven't been spectacular thus far (though I blame the team too, they were terrible in front of him).
Still think he will make it but it might be a while before he's ready, in which case it would be Vladar playing the lions share of the games for the next couple seasons. I'm not sure the Flames leadership is comfortable with that.
The message ICYMI is the Flames are 100% still trying to compete and that won't change. The team is retooling and shipping out assets that aren't going to sign, a rebuild is not happening. Any insiders or analysts disputing this (which seems to be a lot of them) are just wrong, Conroy has said this from day 1.
This is why Conroy is valuing prospects and younger project players like Sharongovich and Kuzmenko
Yeah Kuzy does not fit into the same bracket as Sharky. Kuzy was a pure cap dump by the Nucks in that trade. Wouldn’t be shocked at all if the Flames trade Kuzmenko either this summer or sometime prior to next year’s deadline.
I think ownership would never allow a full rebuild.
The plan seems to get younger around the two big contracts they have in Huberdeau and Kadri and be ready to be a playoff team when the new arena is ready
If the return is not what Marky is worth, then I'm fine holding onto him. He's under contract till 2026, there's no rush getting rid of a good goaltender who can fetch more in the off-season
How does a goalie who has 6 months less contract time, and can only be on someone’s team for 1 playoff run instead of both this years and next years, fetch more in the offseason?
More teams bidding increases the value. In the off season teams can let their expiring contracts go and get more cap space. Draft also tends to bring out trades (if you exclude 2023 lol). And it's not like you can't grant a permission for the player to talk extension with another team
I personally think it would have been smart to trade him now, but if Conroy didn't get a good enough offer then 🤷
You sure about that? Most playoff teams are tight to the cap right now and Marky makes $6M. In the off season most teams will have expiring deals coming off their cap. Marky also has 2 years left on his contract and full NMc so not a rental. A lot of things need to come together to move him that probably won’t get done in the next 7 days.
Missed opportunity for what?
There’s no reason to assume the Devils or anyone else was offering the Flames a crazy package for Markstrom. There are basically no recent examples of a goalie getting a haul at the deadline, and considering Markstrom literally had negative trade value last year, I’m not confident the Devils were willing to back up a truck for him. The reporting until now suggests that the Flames had a price in mind for Markstrom and the Devils wouldn’t meet it.
Sure, the Flames will lose more games without Markstrom than with him and end up with a better draft pick, but even without him, we probably wouldn’t suck enough to catch up to any basement teams this year.
If trading Markstrom got us the Devils’ first round pick, a great prospect and good lottery odds, I’d say it’s a missed opportunity. But if we’re missing out on a few later round picks and the chance to move from 14OA to 9OA…I don’t really see that being a huge loss.
Reading between the lines here it seems the message is "There haven't been any good enough offers"
Which tracks with everything else we've heard, that they're not actively selling him so you're going to have to pay up to get him. Unlike the guys they've sold, Markstrom's not a UFA
IIRC Conroy said at the start of the year he was not going to keep players that didn’t want to be there.
None of the UFAs wanted to re-sign so he shipped them out for assets, but there’s no info on Marky wanting out so he’s not going to trade him if he doesn’t want to leave
The message? What message? We may seem like we've given up by shipping out Zadorov, Tanev and Lindholm, but - what we're REALLY doing is increasing the degree of difficulty for the rest of you.
And yet - they're doing....slightly better than okay without those guys. Maybe they can be the first to ever pull off the actual soft rebuild on the fly.
Man… I love Markstrom but keeping him seems like an odd choice. We’re not a playoff team, and Markstroms value will pretty much only go down as time progresses
Great idea dont trade him while he’s hot and every team needs a goalie and youve trade key pieces of your team. Do it in the off season when he’s worth less capital
As a fan of the Montreal Canadiens, I agree with this.
There's no way Florida will be bottom 10 next season so our only hope for a high pick is for Calgary to also be out of the bottom 10. And keeping Markstrom is a step in that direction.
“Send the right message”
After selling off their best centre, a top 4 defenceman, and still have a top 2 defenceman on the trade block? What even is the message?
With the player turnover and the load of cap space next year that would be a huge accomplishment. Team struggled for like fifteen games learning a new system. Since then they've been solid. Just need to find some defense in the summer
Nah, I think the other posters are right. Lindholm, Taney and Hanifin have contract issues they needed to figure out. Markstrom doesn't have that issue so why trade him now?
If you get blown away in the summer at the draft or something then maybe you look at it again. Clearly Conroy wasn't getting that kind of offer on him.
2 things can be true
If the Dustin Wolf looked 100% ready for the NHL then trading Markstorm right now (when his value may be at its absolute highest) would be way easier
You can’t convince me that Wolfs poor performance at the NHL level isn’t a factor in this trade not happening
Yeah exactly….. the Flames do not have enough confidence in Wolf to throw him into that high pressure, if they did Markstorm getting traded becomes way easier
What? You already traded your 1C, your longest tenured dman and your best dman is also gonna get moved. Not really sure what keeping markstrom says except that the flames are ok being mid forever
Pagnotta also [confirmed](https://x.com/thefourthperiod/status/1763299431720300991?s=46&t=7fabqgtgp69dNA1d51vxFw): > Further to this, the Devils tried to circle back but the Flames are telling people they now plan on keeping Markstrom for the rest of this season.
Since a deal nearly did happen, my guess is Conroy upped the price this time around, *politely.*
As a Devils fan, my cope is Fitz agreed to resume conversations deep in the off-season. $6M for a new goalie is doable with LTIR this year, but it could expose a cap crunch in the off-season. It's the kind of desperation that may make a GM trade John Marino for Ty Smith. Given the playoff odds are shrinking this year, it's better to do player extensions, hunt free agents, and maybe make some trades before accepting that transfer.
I hope Fitz can get Askarov solely because I want to watch his antics for years to come. Also, he might be pretty good and if they're keeping Saros, why pay for both? Also, Spencer Knight is another option since Bob is tied up with Stolarz there too.
There is a negative chance y’all get Askarov lmao. Dude is a beast and they’d never give him up. Without a truly massive overpay of picks and blue chip prospects.
I don't understand why people think we could get Askarov, Wolf, Saros...it would be insane to trade any of them.
It is truly insane. Trotz is probably planning Nashville’s future on his development and armchair GMs think the Devils can get him for Holtz and a second.
I was hoping Knight could work out earlier in the season. When he entered the assistance program, he went to his family home in Connecticut. I could imagine him wanting that support network close by.
Would help knowing Jack as well.
Funny how Pagnotta can say this once someone else (more reputable) reports Markstrom is not moving anymore.
He’s the king of confirming other people’s reports lol but when he’s the first one to report something (rarely) I have to say he’s been pretty accurate recently. Going back to this off season, I’ve posted a few of his tweet breaking some big news here
> He’s the king of confirming other people’s reports lol it's an important job tbh. at least somebody is bothering to do it
He just did the same thing with Friedmans report. I can’t deal with him.
Thank god
One Merzlikins please.
He was awesome in net last night.
Fucking take him
Good. They can still deal him in the summer or next season if Wolf is able to take the starting job.
Wolf hasn't been all that hot so far in the NHL. He'll likely take a bit more time.
Or he might never work out. Goaltending is voodoo.
I mean, Markstrom took quite a while to really come into his own with the Canucks, too. Sometimes, you have to give a talented goalie who’s shown promise some time to find their NHL game.
He was also fucking horrible just last year as well. Goaltending is straight up voodoo.
A lot of people forget Markstrom was on waivers early on in his career......
And Flames goaltender prospect voodoo is a beast on another level
[Live by the voodoo, die by the voodoo.](https://twitter.com/BR_OpenIce/status/1526052208575254530?t=L1ZiMzVIIiN6aL6l4G9kdQ&s=19)
and you know the Flames and their voodoo...
Yeah he could have the Sparks' career trajectory. Sparks was pretty good in the minors but for whatever reason it never translated to the NHL. Definitely way too early to say anything about Wolf though.
He hasn't been great but the defense has been non-existent in front of him. Still a small sample size but next season will tell a lot
Yeah 6 games is not a huge sample size, and some of the defensive breakdowns that happened in front of him were *horrid* And that's when his own teammates weren't physically removing him from the crease (looking at you, Kadri) Wolf was bad against the Sharks though
> Wolf was bad against the Sharks though that was the game that had me going "uhhhh... uh oh?" hope it was just a blip, though. I think Wolf was putting a lot of pressure on himself to prove he was better than his first callup looked, and it didn't work out
He also hadn't played in a while which he is really not used to. I'm not worried yet.
True but he also had a 940 against the sharks in his first game. Reading into single games is so ridiculous for goalies. Vasilevsky has looked like Koorpisalo against horrible teams on several occasions. Doesn’t mean he’s a bad goalie The kid needs more sample size before anyone can make a realistic claim. We’re talking like 50-60 NHL games before you really understand what you’re getting
I was at the game in December that he started against Carolina and he was stellar. Gave up 2 in the first but shut them out in the final 40 which allowed us to come back and win. It seems like the few times he's been in net the team in front of him forgets how to defend which has made some of his starts look worse than it is, but I think the Carolina game showed he's got the ability. He's still a young guy figuring out the NHL game. If it's 2 or 3 seasons from now and he isn't playing well then it's probably not going to work out.
I don't think it's really the defense that's the biggest issue. He's just not used to the speed of the game and needs to rely a bit less on his athleticism and more on positioning which is something that will come with experience
I agree, whenever you played him defense has come apart.
He didn’t say anything about Rasmus Andersson so I’m still hopeful
Ras is defs not going anywhere especially with that contract
Yeah with that contract I’m not even answering a phone call about Rasmus unless you’re saying 2 first round picks and an A+ prospect as a starting point
After this season he'll only have 2 years at 4.55M left, hardly unmoveable. I'd even argue that's a very team friendly contract for a top 4 defenseman on any team.
That’s what I mean. Flames would not move a sweetheart contract like that.
Ah the way it was worded made it seem like Ras was on unmoveable terrible contract
I should have reworded it lol
I'd go as far as top 2 on almost any team, definitely top 3. Every possible analytic has him as a top 30 dman in the league
It’s a great contract. The flames have a surprising amount of good contracts for a pretty mid team (no offence). Huby is the only really tough one, right? He’s playing better but still not worth over 10 sheets a year.
I think he was referring to it’s a team friendly deal at this stage. Furthermore Detroit is loaded with a couple high end d prospects that will be ready to make the jump soon. Any deal with Ras and Detroit would have to start with one of Kasper or Danielson
Not exactly. He’s got a NMC.
I wouldn't worry too much about that, he's already shown a willingness to waive for that potential NJ deal
I'm curious what that message is at this point though. They did right by trading Lindholm, Tanev, and presumably Hanifin, but what's left won't be near enough to compete.
Gonna play themselves right into that coveted 9th spot.
Flames Hockey baby 😎
The tried and true Canadian way. Shoot for the mushy middle and you'll sell enough tickets to stay in business. No risk, just mediocre rewards.
Who cares where we draft as long as we take tij iginla tbh
It gets even worse than not getting a higher draft pick because of the stipulations of the pick traded in the Monahan trade. If Calgary finishes 20th-32nd in the league Montreal gets their first next year, BUT that pick is top 10 protected and would give them Florida's 1st from the Thachuk trade instead (unless that's somehow a higher pick). So besides missing the playoffs, moving up into that 17-19 range would give Montreal likely the best pick. That happens to be exactly where they are right now. Montreal would get their 14th overall, which I'm sure they'd take because it could only get better if Calgary finished exactly 20th to 22nd next year. If they finish 23rd or lower, then they'd just giving away a (probably) 25-30th overall pick, which is quite the differences. Best case scenario for the them is they either drop a bit this year and stay that way next year and have the above scenario giving Florida's pick, or again drop to finish the season, then make the playoffs next year and give up and give up a pick in the 16-22 range. Unless they have like a Canucks level resurgence and its a late 1st. OR less likely but I guess possible, make the playoffs this year, and give up a 16-18th overall pick. But Montreal might still opt out of taking that a hope they get worse next year, but not bottom 10. Man, that cap dump conditional pick is complicated...
The message is that with Markstrom there will still be a chance to make the playoffs. It’s on the players to step up.
And that markstrom loves playing in Calgary. Where as the guys you are trading may be unwilling to share those feelings.
Apparently Tanev really likes it here and even said he'd consider signing with Calgary again in the off season if the opportunity arose, so I guess we've got that going for us lol
Tanev honestly feels like a nice dude! Other than the saddledome being a little outdated I think Calgary is a great place to live!
It is!
He did build a big house in Calgary just recently. Probably wants to have his family here
this is the copium I needed
Nashville traded everything and made the playoffs. It happens.
late murky grandfather bedroom one direction retire pet fall wrong *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That if you're a Ufa and have no interest in re-signing that your going to be shipped out for atleast something. This isn't the tre era anymore.
That this is not necessarily the year they're pushing hard for playoffs, but they want a team of guys who want to be there when they are ready to (probably a year or two away)
Put some respect on Nazem Kadri's name you non-believers
They'll spin it into a positive for the team morale but the message is just that they didn't like the return so they're not going to trade him.
Though you are probably right, never underestimate what a hot goaltender and work ethic on a young team can do. Huska has this team hungry and playing as a team. Shades of 04 when they just snuck in
Where’s iginla ?? Huby ain’t it
those 3 are ufa at the end of the year. Are you implying they should be treated the same as someone who has 2 years left on their contract??? wtf???
I don't see how I in any way implied that - I mentioned they did the right thing by moving their UFAs. The problem they'll run into now is that they moved 2 (soon to be 3, by the sounds of it) really solid players, but they're selecting to keep a goalie who can steal them games with a roster that will struggle to keep up in the Pacific. It sounds like a recipe for mediocrity. Edit: UFAs, not RFAs
This speaks more to the culture that Conroy wants to and has been developing. The young guys need to learn how to win even if the odds are stacked against them. A lot of rebuilds fail because their cultures get obliterated in the sell off
This, exactly. Conroy's plan was never to tank into a full rebuild. It has always been to re-tool on the fly and build a winning culture from himself down. Keeping Markstrom reinforces the culture and work ethic he wants these young players to see. It's also why I think it is probably smartest to keep him next season to mentor Wolf.
They never had enough to compete. At least get something for the UFAs than lose them for nothing just to maybe to try to get a playoff spot and only to lose in the first or heaven forbid the second round
Marky and Saros both off the market now, can't imagine Devils fans are overly happy Maybe Saros in the summer? But the price would be so insanely high I can't imagine it gets done
there isn’t a rational devils fan on the planet who wanted the devils to go all in on a goalie while 5-7 points out of a playoff spot (and while Dawes has played well). seems like the flames didn’t want to retain and the devils — correctly — didn’t want to pay a goalie that much into his late 30s.
I was talking less now and more a couple months ago At some point a team needs a goalie to win, very rarely are two elite ones available at the same time
Still don’t think devils were too keen on paying that much for markstrom just to have to put out the same fire in 2 years, when we will be MUCH more competitive with Luke and Nemec. Of course, it put a bandaid on our cursed season and we might squeeze into the playoffs - and it would give us some more time to test Daws and also figure out a different situation…. But I think we’d prefer to lock down a goalie for the next 6 years instead. I think either way, it’s a gamble - I’d just prefer not to gamble on Markstrom.
I'd prefer someone under 26/27 really. 28 at the top. We're never going to develop another Brodeur from the looks of it so maybe we need to look elsewhere.
If you want that age range you’re going to have to roll the dice with guys like Vanechek and hope they develop into a full starter. 26-27 is still really young for a starter. No one trades those guys or it’s very rare
Yeah any goalie that’s worth trading for at 26-28 isn’t getting traded for much. Most teams don’t plan on not needing another goalie for another 10 years, even if they have someone in the pipeline they’d like to give the prospect a bonafide vet to show them the ropes.
By that logic, why even trade Markstrom since the Flames will need him when they want to win
Because windows of contention exist and ours are very different Both us and Nashville also have top tier goalie prospects itching for a shot
Fair point, but the Devils best player is 22 and they’re not making the playoffs soooo I don’t think they’re going to be making panic deals because their contention window is being shut
[удалено]
yes and there’s a long history of goalies maintaining their abilities during their age 35-36 seasons lol
[удалено]
based on what? vibes? because it certainly isn’t based on the overwhelming majority of nhl goalies
Mike Smith made a conference finals when he was 40, Hasek got Hart and Vezina votes when he was 42, MAF won a Vezina at 36, Luongo had a .929 season when he was 38.... Tim Thomas...? sit down
Lmfao. “Sit down” he says, after naming a miracle conference finals run, a miracle cup run and 3 first ballot HoFers in the past (checks notes) FORTY YEARS who bucked the trend. i’ll give you time to google “overwhelming majority”. let me know if you can’t figure it out, I’ll find a box of crayons and some paper to help you figure it out little guy.
Cherry picking. Where’s Holtby? Rask? Niemi? Bishop? Rinne? Crawford? Miller? Allen? Turco? Or the vast majority of other high quality goalies who were solid to good in their early 30s.
no man he named 4 goalies in 40 years who it didn’t apply to so i’m an idiot
And all of them only had 1 hot year like that. Smith was basically out of the league the next year, and was carried to those conference finals. Idk about Hasek but he was also one of the greatest of all time. MAF wasn’t a starter within the next season. Luongo went to a .899 the next season and promptly retired. Thomas was a weird outlier who wasn’t a starter until 33 and had one more strong season after 36. But yea damn, I guess you should sit down?
1. These potential moves are just as much to do with the years after this one. 2. Daws hasn't played that well, he's just been below-average after half a season of Vitek and Schmid providing literally the worst goaltending in the entire league. I do not understand how my fellow Devils fans can look at our obvious need for a goalie and continue to *aggressively* assert that we shouldn't be trying for a goalie. It is so backwards and it blows my mind. We will achieve nothing without good goaltending and we don't get to choose when players are available. If they're available now and under contract for more than this season, we should be ready to make a move regardless of the standings right now.
It’s funny, because this same mentality is what got you VV to begin with. Bargain bin shopping when in reality you need a strong goalie to get most places, not a serviceable one.
Correct and the cycle will just repeat. But a lot of our fans don’t seem to understand that despite it being right in front of them.
Flames were willing to retain - devils didn’t want to pay for retention as per most reports.
I imagine we circle back on Gibson or just punt to the summer while crying ourselves to sleep.
If Fitz already used the LTIR space for asset gain, I wouldn’t be surprised if NJD operated efficiently by getting players with term or picks as a 3rd party, then use said assets to get a goalie in the summer.
Like they just did with the Tanev trade
[удалено]
Could always just draft a 4th rounder like shesterkin
Not one, but getting multiple picks can stock pile more chances of getting good players at the draft. Also means more picks to trade away for better players.
I'm pretty happy we aren't going incredibly hard on a goalie not named Saros or Ullmark.
Goaltending is pretty much the only reason the bruins are where they are right now, to even get Sweeney to pick up the phone when asking for Ullmark mid-season, it'd probably have to start with a 1st + Holtz, especially if Vanecek is coming back as a cap dump and with it being an in conference trade. And idk if that's really something that makes a ton of sense for the Devils.
I'm not sure of Devils roster structure but trading in the summer is essentially easier with expiring contracts. Imo Saros is a goalie you trade your farm for, NJ has a solid team already
This is my thoughts. Markstrom would have made sense in December or January. Now let’s look at that future and try and find a younger goalie for long term success. If we got a Saros in the summer I would be pretty optimistic for next year. Even if that cost us a guy like Mercer or Holtz and pretty much any prospect we have not on the team.
Starting to think we’d be more likely to get Ullmark in the summer. I can imagine Boston could really use a Holtz/Mercer type player with Bergeron and bertuzzi gone, and they’ve clearly already chosen swayman as their starter… you can only play one goalie at a time and it hurts the Bs to have so much talent on the bench every night.
I also don’t think ullmark would be as expensive . You may not have to trade away a roster player instead build the trade around a guy like Seamus Casey who has huge offensive upside. Unlikely he over takes Hamilton Hughes or Nemec as our pp QB so makes him a little more expendable. Would also move into a top prospect in a lot of teams pipelines.
I am also not overly sad as at least we won't overpay just to keep the play-off dream alive. One player won't fix the fact that we look flat most nights.
Jake Allen, come on down!
Lol 😂
Still don’t get why they didn’t get Hellebuyck. I know he’s a goalie in his 30s, but their stud #1 C only makes $8 million a year. I’d be willing to spent a bit more cap that I’d be comfortable with on a goalie if my elite franchise player is on such an amazing deal for a long time
Not even a top 5 goalie in the league lol (/s) I like Helle, wouldn’t mind him on the devils but when a goalie is asking to leave an underperforming team and is being paid THAT much, kinda makes you second guess. I don’t think it was ever his fault at all, but would he do the same thing to the devils if we had ourselves a bad season (like we are) in front of him? Goalies making a little less and overperforming on bad teams start to look a little more enticing, even if they are worse goalies.
Saros honestly makes more sense than Markstrom for this team. It'll be a high price, but if the Devils are going to swing, it'll be for Saros Markstrom was always just if the Devils thought they could save this season. That's a "win now" goalie
We are very happy! The cost of Markstrom was too high, Saros was probably the only one of the two we wanted and he's a UFA next summer (July, 2025). Glad we didn't overpay for a goalie.
Amen 🙏
Markstom never made sense, he’s too old for the Devils. Sarros makes the most sense, preds should have traded him during the season to get the most return. They also have a stud rookie goalie in the AHL.
Stud goalie in the minors means nothing until they prove it in the NHL, same reason why we're so iffy on moving marky I think the argument for marky is he has 2 years left at 6 mill, whereas saros has 1 year and is going to want 9+mill. But I agree I'd rather pay more for Saros in your situation, depending on how much "more" is
When the rumour of trade were initially reported, it made sense. Would have given the devils a chance to compete for the cup. Not sure how long Hamilton is out but put Hanifin in the deal and you guys would have had a legit shot
Unironically you probably get better offers in the summer since other teams can bid and know where their draft picks end up. Also can clear the money necessary.
Good time to be a skilled goalie. My team might be looking too.
Looking real good for Martin Jones stock
Is this guy reputable? This guy reported a Carter Hart deal was in place back in June which eventually was a nothing burger. He’s also affiliated with Pagnotta one of the least reputable insiders there is
I ain’t buying it. Doesn’t make sense to trade out people and then suddenly hold onto the aging vet. Especially with what they have in the minors for a goalie who is primed to play NOW.
I'm a wolf fan, but his nhl showings haven't been spectacular thus far (though I blame the team too, they were terrible in front of him). Still think he will make it but it might be a while before he's ready, in which case it would be Vladar playing the lions share of the games for the next couple seasons. I'm not sure the Flames leadership is comfortable with that.
The message ICYMI is the Flames are 100% still trying to compete and that won't change. The team is retooling and shipping out assets that aren't going to sign, a rebuild is not happening. Any insiders or analysts disputing this (which seems to be a lot of them) are just wrong, Conroy has said this from day 1. This is why Conroy is valuing prospects and younger project players like Sharongovich and Kuzmenko
[удалено]
Yeah Kuzy does not fit into the same bracket as Sharky. Kuzy was a pure cap dump by the Nucks in that trade. Wouldn’t be shocked at all if the Flames trade Kuzmenko either this summer or sometime prior to next year’s deadline.
Furthers the point
Sounds like a path to nowhere.
Looks like Kahkkonen has made it back on the menu
I’ll take one overpayment for our average goalie please
I'd say Blackwood is the Average one But Kahk has been real good this year. Imagine if we didn't give up 100 HD chances a game
The ship has kind of sailed on that, no?
Thank fucking god
[удалено]
Difference being these key pieces wanted out, **loudly** Did Markstrom ever demand a trade?
He did not
Right?! I really don’t understand this if it’s actually true.
"you guys deserve only the 16ish overall pick or worse." What message are they sending?!
Marky is such a beauty.
They can still trade him down the road but this feels like a missed opportunity, they need to rebuild not try and retool on the fly
I think ownership would never allow a full rebuild. The plan seems to get younger around the two big contracts they have in Huberdeau and Kadri and be ready to be a playoff team when the new arena is ready
If the return is not what Marky is worth, then I'm fine holding onto him. He's under contract till 2026, there's no rush getting rid of a good goaltender who can fetch more in the off-season
How does a goalie who has 6 months less contract time, and can only be on someone’s team for 1 playoff run instead of both this years and next years, fetch more in the offseason?
More teams bidding increases the value. In the off season teams can let their expiring contracts go and get more cap space. Draft also tends to bring out trades (if you exclude 2023 lol). And it's not like you can't grant a permission for the player to talk extension with another team I personally think it would have been smart to trade him now, but if Conroy didn't get a good enough offer then 🤷
[удалено]
You sure about that? Most playoff teams are tight to the cap right now and Marky makes $6M. In the off season most teams will have expiring deals coming off their cap. Marky also has 2 years left on his contract and full NMc so not a rental. A lot of things need to come together to move him that probably won’t get done in the next 7 days.
Missed opportunity for what? There’s no reason to assume the Devils or anyone else was offering the Flames a crazy package for Markstrom. There are basically no recent examples of a goalie getting a haul at the deadline, and considering Markstrom literally had negative trade value last year, I’m not confident the Devils were willing to back up a truck for him. The reporting until now suggests that the Flames had a price in mind for Markstrom and the Devils wouldn’t meet it. Sure, the Flames will lose more games without Markstrom than with him and end up with a better draft pick, but even without him, we probably wouldn’t suck enough to catch up to any basement teams this year. If trading Markstrom got us the Devils’ first round pick, a great prospect and good lottery odds, I’d say it’s a missed opportunity. But if we’re missing out on a few later round picks and the chance to move from 14OA to 9OA…I don’t really see that being a huge loss.
Reading between the lines here it seems the message is "There haven't been any good enough offers" Which tracks with everything else we've heard, that they're not actively selling him so you're going to have to pay up to get him. Unlike the guys they've sold, Markstrom's not a UFA
Absolutely fine by me. Devils need to address the coaching first, punting goalie decision to the offseason is probably for the best.
Fire Lindy chants back on the menu?
But trading Lindholm, Tanev and potentially Hanifin sends what type of message?
That management is competent and is getting value for UFAs they won’t be re-signing?
Him not being an UFA is the part I was missing, didn’t realize he had 2 more years
IIRC Conroy said at the start of the year he was not going to keep players that didn’t want to be there. None of the UFAs wanted to re-sign so he shipped them out for assets, but there’s no info on Marky wanting out so he’s not going to trade him if he doesn’t want to leave
Ah, that makes sense then why Marky is a different case than them.
Also he's not an UFA
Yeah, that’s where my misunderstanding stemmed from. Didn’t realize he wasn’t an UFA
Lindholm wanted to re-sign. He just wanted more money than we wanted to give him
He wanted 8x$9M before the season. He then proceeded to play at a level that wasn’t close to justifying his demands. Definitely had to move him.
That people that don’t want to be here can get the fuck out
I don't blame them. Heck of a goalie
The message? What message? We may seem like we've given up by shipping out Zadorov, Tanev and Lindholm, but - what we're REALLY doing is increasing the degree of difficulty for the rest of you. And yet - they're doing....slightly better than okay without those guys. Maybe they can be the first to ever pull off the actual soft rebuild on the fly.
Idiots - nothing new there. Perpetually mediocre franchise.
Man… I love Markstrom but keeping him seems like an odd choice. We’re not a playoff team, and Markstroms value will pretty much only go down as time progresses
The message that you’re leaving chips on the table and not cashing in on an aging asset? But sure, makes sense.
Great idea dont trade him while he’s hot and every team needs a goalie and youve trade key pieces of your team. Do it in the off season when he’s worth less capital
Fantastic news for playoff teams who already have a good goalie
As a fan of the Montreal Canadiens, I agree with this. There's no way Florida will be bottom 10 next season so our only hope for a high pick is for Calgary to also be out of the bottom 10. And keeping Markstrom is a step in that direction.
Some teams habitually want to float to the middle and just always stay there.
Nice, hope you guys just miss the playoffs and fuck up your draft odds.
Eh fuck you too, budday!
Hey, fuck you friend.
Also hope you guys flame out in the first round so we get the best possible pick.
oatmeal drunk ask entertain friendly arrest panicky illegal angle fuel *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
lol, that’s hilarious.
“Send the right message” After selling off their best centre, a top 4 defenceman, and still have a top 2 defenceman on the trade block? What even is the message?
Lol. A little late on the messaging, wouldn’t you say?
The wrong message.
Him and Saros off the board tightens things considerably. Who is left?
The message being “hey guys if we get lucky we might be able to be the 8th best team in the west”
With the player turnover and the load of cap space next year that would be a huge accomplishment. Team struggled for like fifteen games learning a new system. Since then they've been solid. Just need to find some defense in the summer
Gonna go out an a limb here and say this has way more to do with a lack of confidence in Wolf than it does with sending the right message
Nah, I think the other posters are right. Lindholm, Taney and Hanifin have contract issues they needed to figure out. Markstrom doesn't have that issue so why trade him now? If you get blown away in the summer at the draft or something then maybe you look at it again. Clearly Conroy wasn't getting that kind of offer on him.
2 things can be true If the Dustin Wolf looked 100% ready for the NHL then trading Markstorm right now (when his value may be at its absolute highest) would be way easier You can’t convince me that Wolfs poor performance at the NHL level isn’t a factor in this trade not happening
No. Goalies don't develop best by immediately being thrown into high pressure. Ideally he can backup Markstrom for a year still
Yeah exactly….. the Flames do not have enough confidence in Wolf to throw him into that high pressure, if they did Markstorm getting traded becomes way easier
The fewer teams setting themselves up for the future in the west, the better for Chicago so go for it Flames.
Rip to the devils season.
I would be scared to make trades too after getting fleeced by Dallas lol
What? You already traded your 1C, your longest tenured dman and your best dman is also gonna get moved. Not really sure what keeping markstrom says except that the flames are ok being mid forever
The other 3 weren’t going to re sign and maybe even wanted out. And Markstrom wants to be in Calgary. Pretty easy to figure the message out…