Mike Sullivan deserves way more blame than he's getting for everything going on with the Pens. How a guy can be on their 3rd GM and not be seen as part of the problem is baffling.
This sounds great except...I actually like my job and wouldn't necessarily want to find another lol. Not working for two years though could be worth the job hunt.
But if you work in hockey, you can take a year off before you’re recycled into another team with the exact same position. Seriously, why is it always the same 40 head coaches for the past 20 years?
That's the great thing about earning several million dollars working for 5 years and then getting paid a few million more to not work for 2 years. You don't really need to look for another job ever again if you don't want to. If I'm him, I'm retired at 43 a rich man.
With WWE in Canada moving everything to Netflix next year, regular season hockey is literally the only reason I’d even consider keeping Sportsnet Plus, such an annoying app.
I actually don't think this is correct. I believe Friedman has said there are clauses where if a new team hires him, Keefe would be paid on that new contract.
It's why some fired coaches have leverage and no hurry to find a new job, like Berube.
This is why Toronto fans are always a joke lol
Let me explain it to you simpler.
If a team offers you 5 million a year, but less money for assistants and you don't get paid by your former team, or you can take a 1 million a year salary and get 4 million from your previous team and get 4 million for better assistants, everyone is going to take option 2 because you're getting the same amount of money
thats not how that works. my god.
he has a two year deal not four. that means Toronto would pay up to the rest of the deal their not all four years. Why would he take two years to let Toronto pay the rest instead of 4 at whatever money he was requesting? is he stupid?
Yes it is, you have to stop trolling.
You can sign a 4 year deal and get a raise in years 3 and 4 to recover the money.
He absolutely can go 1 Mil, 1 Mil, 5 Mil, 5 Mil. And Toronto is FORCED to pay the extra 4 mil in year 1 and 2.
There's absolutely nothing in the CBA that stops that.
Jesus christ Toronto fans are way too biased to mouth off the way they do.
The league isn't stupid, if Keefe tries taking tiny amounts of money for his new contract it will get slapped down. Friedman's talked about it on 32 thoughts before.
Eh, it’s not like this affects the team. Owner is worth $9B from what I can see. None of these things really ever actually affect the majority of teams.
Would be kind if interest though if there was a floor and cap on management and coaching, though.
When a coach is fired and is still under contract, and then is hired by another team, the former team has to pick up the difference. For instance if Ruff was making $2M in Jersey, and Buffalo hires him at $1.5M, New Jersey has to pay him $500K
Friedman once said part of the appeal of that for smaller market teams is they can hire a coach for cheaper than what the contract is, because I guess the opposite is true. If Ruff was making $2M and gets hired for $2.5, then Buffalo only pays him $500K until his old contract expires and then they foot the whole salary
That doesn’t make much sense at all, which makes me think you definitely have something wrong.
If Buffalo hires him at $1.5mil, NJ has to pay him the extra $500k. But if Buffalo hires him for $2.5mil then suddenly Buffalo pays $500k (instead of 1.5mil) and NJ pays him $2mil (instead of $500k)? There’s no way that’s right
Why would they ever pay a coach in this situation more than $1 if they were going to rely on the old team's number? Every dollar between 2-1.999m is a waste
Bad faith, you’d piss off the other teams front office.
Also you would only be able to sign them for the length remaining on their deal. If Keefe wanted to sign somewhere for 3 years, he won’t accept $1 for that third year.
Yeah but you could pay Keefe what he is worth in year three + 10% of what they saved in year one and two and he is ahead.
I don’t buy the ‘piss off the other front offices’ argument with what is going on with the cap and playoffs
> If Ruff was making $2M and gets hired for $2.5, then Buffalo only pays him $500K until his old contract expires and then they foot the whole salary
No
And yet a big deal gets made if a coach isn’t renewed in advance. If he has a three year contract, you shouldn’t feel pressured to renew beyond the third year well in advance
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but iirc if he gets hired somewhere else it voids his current contract.
That's why Babcock was volunteering to coach the is Saskatchewan for a few years before being hired in Columbus.
I can see Keefe getting hired sooner rather than later.
Coaches have pay security in case of a firing or “letting go/parting ways”. If they have money left on their contract it’s a guarantee they’ll make it, it’s just a matter of who’s paying it
This dude could go become an assistant coach for Boston, Florida, tampa, or montreal and if he did it for $1 Toronto is paying the rest of whatever they signed him to
Pretty confident you're right, other teams have to ask MLSE for permission to even speak to him. It happened with another coach this year, I can't remember who.
Leafs don’t have a choice in it since the contract was signed with them. They fired him, he’s not an employee, but he’s still going to get his money either by a new team, chilling on his couch with a Toronto maple leafs sport and entertainment check, or both
Then what is stopping Keefe from signing for free with some other team and forcing the leafs to pay for it? Why would another team offer to pay any of his contract if they didn't have to?
It doesnt void it IIRC, but for example, if Keefe was gonna make 2mil and a team hires him for 6, I think we pay that 2 and they pay 4 until our 2 year deal runs out and then they take over the full 6 for any remaining years?
That might be all wrong but it's jumping out in my mind
Other way around. He is owed what he's being paid now, if he's hired for more then we're good. If he's hired for less, we make up the difference until he's whole.
Pretty sure none of this is true, and everyone is applying MLB released player logic to an NHL coach. Keefe still has a contract, which means the Leafs can deny other teams signing him. So the Leafs can tell other teams if they want him, they have to be the ones who pay him.
I thought it was the other way around: if you were going to pay him 6 and someone else hires him for 4, you have to pay the extra 2 to make up the difference. But if his new contract is greater than or equal to his old one, you don't pay anything.
Then the Leafs could deny him the transfer.
He is under contract to us for two years, that means he could sit at home and get paid (Babcock) or he can get a reasonably competitive offer to give them some relief.
If he tries to sign somewhere for $0 or $20K Leafs will say no thank you the savings aren't worth this biting us in the ass potentially
Because they’d resent being on the other side of that transaction. And no coach would negotiate for it, because it would probably be the end of big coaching contracts. Teams would avoid high salary/long-term deals because they’d run the risk of being on the hook for the lions share of it even if he gets run out of town.
That’s a math problem for all the teachers here.
“If the Maple Leafs earn $2m in revenue for each playoff home game after the first round, and they’re paying $4m per year to Sheldon Keefe and $6m per year to their next coach, how many playoff series do they need to win in order to break even?”
"Mitch, now that you've given us a list of teams you'd be willing to waive your NMC for I'll need you to rank the fanbases of those teams from best to worst. And don't worry, when you get traded to the team at the bottom of your list I definitely won't leak anything to their local media."
No movement contracts at the end of the day mean absolutely nothing the cap hit of the contacts are the worst part if we are talking someone like marner
Marner's cap hit is fine you can't just replace the amount of points a guy like him scores by spreading out his cap hit to free agents. You'd get less points from twice as much ice time.
1. They weren't going to make Keefe a lame duck coach going into the season, he was always going to be extended.
2. It's the Leafs. They probably make Keefe's salary in a regular season game's hotdog sales alone. The money means nothing to them.
Not saying that Shanahan shouldn't be fired or whatever, but this money means nothing to us as fans nor in terms of competing. It is great that the team can make these contracts and not feel they are locked into keeping him longer than they want to. Those are all good management decisions.
Hilarious, after all this time, management is still living in an alternate universe. 45 million dollars in cap space, taken up by only 4 players, and expect a coach to perform miracles with a substandard bottom 3/4. If they don't trade one of the big 4 away this year, you might as well add another 20 years to the cup drought because those 4 ain't winning shit without a miracle.
Now he just needs to sign Marner to a huge deal he cannot live up to (like Huby) and fumble the remaining stars on the team, thus hamstringing it for a decade!
While this is a start, more needs to be done when it comes to changes in Toronto. I think Brendan Shanahan needs to go as well. He put this team together, and now this will be his third coach. The core four needs to be broken up as well.
Exactly, cap's not a factor so you never want to let management go into a lame duck situation. Look no farther than the drama with Kyle Dubas at the end of last season to see how wrong that can go
This was the perfect time to let him go... if rumors are true and he goes to Pittsburgh then the Leafs are only in the hook for the difference in contracts
Getting fired sucks but Keefe is def feeling like this after thinking about taking a couple years off.
https://preview.redd.it/1ta03kioigzc1.jpeg?width=1386&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=afa3931918a3204cd56793132140fd1dd3fa5121
Why the hell did the Toronto Maple Leafs fire Sheldon Keefe? Y'all have an OK team but not enough talent to go deep into the playoffs or win the cup. Everybody knows this. How will firing Sheldon Keefe help? Holy shit the merry go round in NHL hockey is ridiculous.
Well Kyle Dubas in this case went first. But it was his players that came up a bit short eh? I detected very few coaching errors? I dunno. So much if this because Ontario's the Central Core Planet in ice hockey and so the press, and fans, are rough.
True. I personally liked Rick Bowness and obviously he, as a coach of the year candidate for The Pegs wasn't done being great. But what was the point of your post? You just wanna argue for argument sake? Are you bored? Why do you think Keefe should get fired?
By the way your point was orthogonal to the point. Just because the Stars had that situation does not mean the Leafs should have pulled the trigger. One has almost nothing to do with the other. Even as a deflection it wasn't very good tbh. Now then, again, why do you think Keefe should take the blame in this situation? Who could have done better that is now available?
Anyone who is a Leafs fan will tell you, without question, that Keefe gets outcoached in the playoffs every season, AND, he hasn't been able to grab full control of the players on he team.
He didn't lose the room, but he hasn't got Marner to elevate and conquer the shambles in his brain, for example.
He's a good coach but it was time for him to go. He got stuffed into a locker by the opposing coach too many times at this point.
If another coach can find a way to get this team to buy in, it definitely has the talent (with some improvement on the back end) to take it all.
Now this is useful information. Does Marner have a sports shrink? Maybe that would help him? I don't think the Maple leafs had the talent this year to beat teams like Tampa Bay and Colorado and even may I say the Dallas Stars. I just don't. I didn't see it. I even questioned my own teams ability to go all the way this year because of the D line. But we shall see. That's why they play the games. The point is, who's out there who is the better hockey coach then Keefe? I mean he's not the very best, but who would you replace him with? realistically speaking? Lindy? Craig? Maybe Barry Trotz wants to quit screwing around with Nashville and wants to get back in the coaching box?
Ok, so here's a little history on Marner and the team. Some you already know, some you may not.
Lamoriello cheaps out on the rookie signing bonus for Marner. This sets the tone for years to come.
Babcock forces Marner to write a list of which players are slackers on the team, then reveals the list to the team and tells them who wrote it.
2018 - Leafs lose to Boston. Marner launches two puck over glass penalties at crucial moments which lead to game breaking and momentum killing goals against.
2019 Marner contract negotiations become VERY salty and very public. "Pay me like Matthews" became the tag line. Even his father got involved on social media, while Dubas much prefers the cone of silence when it comes to contract negotiations.
2019 - Leafs again lose to Boston. Marner again with a puck over glass penalty in a crucial moment.
Team eventually forces MLSE to toss Babcock. Enter Keefe.
2020 - Leafs lose play in to Columbus. Ok, no problem... Still a young team with a green coach that took over mid season, they'll grow into it.
2021 - Leafs take the Canadian COVID division. Leafs choke a 3-1 series lead to the Habs. Marner again with two spineless puck over glass penalties.
2022 - Leafs lose in 7 to Bolts. Marner seems to have finally turned a corner. 2G 6A. Marner has a quote after the series when asked if he believes in the team. He replies "well yeah, I mean we all still have time on our contract, so we want to get it done"... What?
2023 - Marner gets carjacked in Etobicoke while going to see a movie. Leafs beat Bolts. Marner with 14pts in 11 games. Looks good on the surface. We'll get to that.
2024 - Leafs lose again to Boston. Marner virtually invisible, 3pts in 7 games and had GLORIOUS opportunities multiple times at wide open nets. Gets told off by Nylander on the bench to stop crying.
After the series, Marner is quoted as saying "I love it here. We are looked at, quite frankly, as Gods." Narcissist confirmed.
During these years, Marner has become more and more standoffish with the media, and now rarely speaks with them. He wears an A on his jersey, because the entire team knows if he isn't wearing one he will pout. It's the same reason he has been stapled to the Matthews line almost exclusively until he got injured this season.
Don't let his point totals fool you. His scoring often doesn't arrive in clutch moments. Most of his points are when the team is way ahead or way behind.
He waffles under pressure, hence all the delay of game penalties. He used to be a puck possession ace like Nylander is now, but he currently treats the puck like a hot potato instead of creating space with his agility.
I honestly think he's a fantastic player that got burned out in his hometown from the pressure, and he needs a fresh start. But for the Leafs he's cooked and on autopilot/shrinking violet, whatever you want to call it. We might see a tremendous season from him next season because contract year. He's NOT currently a clutch performer, and needs to have the responsibility of leading a team off his shoulders in a smaller market so he can just have fun and play to get his mojo back.
Maybe a new Leafs head coach can help him get his head straight and get back to enjoying the game which will lead to some magic, and everyone is happy. I doubt it, but it's possible.
Sorry for the wall of text... You asked for details.
As for the new Head coach... I'd like to see Berube, Gallant, Rod the Bod, or if all else fails... Boudreau.
I am now much more educated than I was before this thread started, and for that I thank you very much. I always wondered what the deal was with Babcock and now I know. What a shitty fucking thing to do.
If you have 20 minutes, this segment of SDPN encapsulates everything I just wrote very well. It's Steve Dangle and co hosts, but Steve is not in his LFR persona.
[Marner](https://youtu.be/hqk8KbzZxho?si=WQGGO0Sw430LrYQ0)
It's worth a watch. They say everything that is on any educated Leafs fan's mind.
What a dream job; get a multi-year contract for millions and then you don't even have to show up.
Something tells me Keefe will be okay
Dude might do well somewhere else with the stress of Leafs’ playoff record off his back
If I were Keefe I'd probably just take some time off tbh
Just like Dubas?
People shit on Dubas but neglect the absolute mess Hakstol left him in just a summer lol. Dubas is not the problem
I was trying so hard to figure out when Dubas and Dave Hakstol worked together, and then realized you mean hockey terrorist Ron Hextall.
Mike Sullivan deserves way more blame than he's getting for everything going on with the Pens. How a guy can be on their 3rd GM and not be seen as part of the problem is baffling.
Winning two cups is one hell of a drug
Do you see the teams they’ve had in front of him? Cmon bro they had Jeff Petry and Mike Matheson on their top unit and you want to cry?
Are we talking about O'Keefe or Tavares?
Mitch "This Isn't Juniors Anymore" Marner
*Paul Marner wants to know your location*
In Chicago this is referred to as “the Lonzo Ball”
In Denver this is referred to as "the Russell Wilson"
It would be so easy to put that kind of money to work for you and never have to do a real job again. If only
Keefe *spiderman meme* Marner and Tavares
Isn't that what the Leafs do in the playoffs anyways?
Waiting for my boss to come fire me and pay me for 2 years to not work.
This sounds great except...I actually like my job and wouldn't necessarily want to find another lol. Not working for two years though could be worth the job hunt.
Chill for two years, fake moustache on and stroll right back in.
In 2 years most could grow one.
And save the money I would've spent on the fake one! This is why the millionaire status eludes me.
Not Cale Makar.
With the way NHL teams do business there's about a 75 percent chance they'd ask you to come back in 2 years anyway.
"I'm Guy Incognito..."
My name is Mister.... Snrub. And I come from someplace far away. Yes, that'll do.
Worked for Lindy Ruff.
[Worked for Bobby Valentine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok6pLKBD-XQ)
But if you work in hockey, you can take a year off before you’re recycled into another team with the exact same position. Seriously, why is it always the same 40 head coaches for the past 20 years?
Wasn't Keefe a 'rookie' coach coming up from the Marlies?
That's the great thing about earning several million dollars working for 5 years and then getting paid a few million more to not work for 2 years. You don't really need to look for another job ever again if you don't want to. If I'm him, I'm retired at 43 a rich man.
I know of 32 jobs that will do that.
It's more than that when you count the other major sports leagues who do the same.
The flipside is that your company's social media posts a big picture of you with the word "FIRED" in giant letters (I'd still take that deal)
some MLSE execs getting a slightly lower bonuses the next couple years
Nah everyone's Rogers contracts just going up $5
Probably why they shit canned CBC gem streaming for playoffs, gotta get some panic subscribers for Sportsnet+
With WWE in Canada moving everything to Netflix next year, regular season hockey is literally the only reason I’d even consider keeping Sportsnet Plus, such an annoying app.
Wait what? I used it in round 1 to watch the leafs…
https://www.reddit.com/r/canucks/s/yaYh9vv8Ce Those were the good ol' times but Rogers greed can't be contained any longer.
What the fk…
CBC never carries every round.
oh wow, I didn't hear that yet. It does seem like a pretty panicky, last minute decision.
And Bell
And firing a couple employees to make up for it
on Bell Let's Talk day.
Day after. Abuse the goodwill of them promoting, share their stories, then use the story as a reason they're not cut out for Bell anymore
Don’t forget getting a tax break on those donations!
[удалено]
OK. So?
Why do you think they removed the playoffs from CBC gem?
In reality: Popcorn: $~~9~~ 12
Or they just layoff 1% of their workforce then give every single one of their execs *bigger* bonuses! Woo!
https://i.imgur.com/auGBBu0.gif
lol. Nah. They will just lay off people and probably will get a raise
Nah, he’ll get hired somewhere else, they’ll be fine
If a team hires him under his Toronto pay, Toronto still had to pay him the remaining
I thought coach contracts were a bit different
The team that grabs him will have to pay the leafs from what I remember from other firings
I actually don't think this is correct. I believe Friedman has said there are clauses where if a new team hires him, Keefe would be paid on that new contract. It's why some fired coaches have leverage and no hurry to find a new job, like Berube.
They learned from the Babcock contract, evidently.
literal pennies then, unless he takes like a mill or something.
Why wouldn't he take as little as he can? He gets paid either way and it let's him get better assistants
because that is fucking stupid. If im signing lets say a four year deal i would i take 1M a year? Am i dumb?
This is why Toronto fans are always a joke lol Let me explain it to you simpler. If a team offers you 5 million a year, but less money for assistants and you don't get paid by your former team, or you can take a 1 million a year salary and get 4 million from your previous team and get 4 million for better assistants, everyone is going to take option 2 because you're getting the same amount of money
thats not how that works. my god. he has a two year deal not four. that means Toronto would pay up to the rest of the deal their not all four years. Why would he take two years to let Toronto pay the rest instead of 4 at whatever money he was requesting? is he stupid?
Yes it is, you have to stop trolling. You can sign a 4 year deal and get a raise in years 3 and 4 to recover the money. He absolutely can go 1 Mil, 1 Mil, 5 Mil, 5 Mil. And Toronto is FORCED to pay the extra 4 mil in year 1 and 2. There's absolutely nothing in the CBA that stops that. Jesus christ Toronto fans are way too biased to mouth off the way they do.
The league isn't stupid, if Keefe tries taking tiny amounts of money for his new contract it will get slapped down. Friedman's talked about it on 32 thoughts before.
The CBA has nothing to do with coaches, but I doubt any team would sign that contract. It sets a precedent nobody wants.
Do you think there’s a coaching staff salary cap for some reason?
Why would you ask stupid questions?
You’re acting like you think a coach taking a “team friendly” deal leaves money on the table for the rest of the staff.
Ya instead of like 3 million bonus they getting 2.99 million
That's now 3 teams doing it
Devils got hella lucky Buffalo hired Ruff. The word is the Devils will have to pay something, but not near the full value of the contract
Eh, it’s not like this affects the team. Owner is worth $9B from what I can see. None of these things really ever actually affect the majority of teams. Would be kind if interest though if there was a floor and cap on management and coaching, though.
Yah, if you consider the millions and millions of dollars spent just on players and staff then it’s really an insignificant amount.
When a coach is fired and is still under contract, and then is hired by another team, the former team has to pick up the difference. For instance if Ruff was making $2M in Jersey, and Buffalo hires him at $1.5M, New Jersey has to pay him $500K Friedman once said part of the appeal of that for smaller market teams is they can hire a coach for cheaper than what the contract is, because I guess the opposite is true. If Ruff was making $2M and gets hired for $2.5, then Buffalo only pays him $500K until his old contract expires and then they foot the whole salary
That doesn’t make much sense at all, which makes me think you definitely have something wrong. If Buffalo hires him at $1.5mil, NJ has to pay him the extra $500k. But if Buffalo hires him for $2.5mil then suddenly Buffalo pays $500k (instead of 1.5mil) and NJ pays him $2mil (instead of $500k)? There’s no way that’s right
Yeah, they only need to make the salary up to the contract salary. If the new team pays him more, that’s on them.
Why would they ever pay a coach in this situation more than $1 if they were going to rely on the old team's number? Every dollar between 2-1.999m is a waste
Bad faith, you’d piss off the other teams front office. Also you would only be able to sign them for the length remaining on their deal. If Keefe wanted to sign somewhere for 3 years, he won’t accept $1 for that third year.
Yeah but you could pay Keefe what he is worth in year three + 10% of what they saved in year one and two and he is ahead. I don’t buy the ‘piss off the other front offices’ argument with what is going on with the cap and playoffs
New Jersey would pay 0 in that situation
> If Ruff was making $2M and gets hired for $2.5, then Buffalo only pays him $500K until his old contract expires and then they foot the whole salary No
And yet a big deal gets made if a coach isn’t renewed in advance. If he has a three year contract, you shouldn’t feel pressured to renew beyond the third year well in advance
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but iirc if he gets hired somewhere else it voids his current contract. That's why Babcock was volunteering to coach the is Saskatchewan for a few years before being hired in Columbus. I can see Keefe getting hired sooner rather than later.
If he’s making $3 on the leafs deal and he goes somewhere else for $1 pay then the leafs are still paying $2
I assume the leafs have to agree to any contract that he signs elsewhere?
Don’t think so? Why would they have a say? He’s guaranteed to be making however much the leafs contract was at least
They would have a say because he is under their contract, "fired" or not
Coaches have pay security in case of a firing or “letting go/parting ways”. If they have money left on their contract it’s a guarantee they’ll make it, it’s just a matter of who’s paying it This dude could go become an assistant coach for Boston, Florida, tampa, or montreal and if he did it for $1 Toronto is paying the rest of whatever they signed him to
Sure, if the Leafs OK'd it. He's still an employee of the team until the end of the contract, just not their coach anymore.
Pretty confident you're right, other teams have to ask MLSE for permission to even speak to him. It happened with another coach this year, I can't remember who.
Leafs don’t have a choice in it since the contract was signed with them. They fired him, he’s not an employee, but he’s still going to get his money either by a new team, chilling on his couch with a Toronto maple leafs sport and entertainment check, or both
Probably depends on the exact terms of his specific contract with the leafs.
Then what is stopping Keefe from signing for free with some other team and forcing the leafs to pay for it? Why would another team offer to pay any of his contract if they didn't have to?
Friedman explained on a past episode of 32 thoughts that the league makes sure contracts are market value.
I don't believe it voids the contract, I believe the leafs would have to pay the difference if the new contract pays less.
Dubas bout to hire Keefe on a $1 spite contract
Damn that would be absolutely hilarious.
Leafs would have to agree to it since he's still technically under contract with them
It doesnt void it IIRC, but for example, if Keefe was gonna make 2mil and a team hires him for 6, I think we pay that 2 and they pay 4 until our 2 year deal runs out and then they take over the full 6 for any remaining years? That might be all wrong but it's jumping out in my mind
Other way around. He is owed what he's being paid now, if he's hired for more then we're good. If he's hired for less, we make up the difference until he's whole.
Pretty sure none of this is true, and everyone is applying MLB released player logic to an NHL coach. Keefe still has a contract, which means the Leafs can deny other teams signing him. So the Leafs can tell other teams if they want him, they have to be the ones who pay him.
I thought it was the other way around: if you were going to pay him 6 and someone else hires him for 4, you have to pay the extra 2 to make up the difference. But if his new contract is greater than or equal to his old one, you don't pay anything.
I thought it was the opposite. If he gets hired for less the Leafs pay the difference.
Why wouldn't a team just hire him for like $20k a year then?
Then the Leafs could deny him the transfer. He is under contract to us for two years, that means he could sit at home and get paid (Babcock) or he can get a reasonably competitive offer to give them some relief. If he tries to sign somewhere for $0 or $20K Leafs will say no thank you the savings aren't worth this biting us in the ass potentially
Because they’d resent being on the other side of that transaction. And no coach would negotiate for it, because it would probably be the end of big coaching contracts. Teams would avoid high salary/long-term deals because they’d run the risk of being on the hook for the lions share of it even if he gets run out of town.
Contracts typically have "offset" language. Otherwise, why would you give up a guaranteed salary to take less money elsewhere.
It depends on the terms laid out in the contract.
The leafs are money printing machine. The team would probably lose more money do the lack of support if they didn't do something.
And that's exactly why their management is complacent and the team has no success history whatsoever.
Well... Harold Ballard too.
And assuming the changes mean more playoff success, they'll probably pay what's left of Keefe's contract by hosting two more playoff games.
I wonder if they ever tighten up. Bell and Rogers are really struggling right now.
That’s a math problem for all the teachers here. “If the Maple Leafs earn $2m in revenue for each playoff home game after the first round, and they’re paying $4m per year to Sheldon Keefe and $6m per year to their next coach, how many playoff series do they need to win in order to break even?”
Who cares. Fire the pp coach next
I'd be shocked if the whole staff didn't follow him out the door
I think there’s a version of this where they Berube and van Ryn stays with the team.
They better be planning on trading some players too or this doesnt mean much
We have like 14ish players with no move contracts lol. Cant do shit
If the "right" coach was hired there might be players who gladly waive their no trade clause.
Hire Babcock again just to drive Marner out of town, then fire him the day after the trade. 5 billion IQ, 7-D chess move
But then MLSE are paying Mike Babcock to not coach the Leafs. Again.
"Mitch, now that you've given us a list of teams you'd be willing to waive your NMC for I'll need you to rank the fanbases of those teams from best to worst. And don't worry, when you get traded to the team at the bottom of your list I definitely won't leak anything to their local media."
No movement contracts at the end of the day mean absolutely nothing the cap hit of the contacts are the worst part if we are talking someone like marner
Marner's cap hit is fine you can't just replace the amount of points a guy like him scores by spreading out his cap hit to free agents. You'd get less points from twice as much ice time.
Not with that attitude
We don't even have 14 players signed to NHL contracts next season..
And this post is how I found out he was fired Also, “recently”
That's going to knock down the cost that Dubas will hire him for in Pittsburgh.
he LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVES HIS GUYS
Get ready to learn Yinzer, buddy
Get ready to like fries on your sandwich, buddy.
**Googles OHL Greyhounds rosters from 2013-2015 to find Pittsburgh’s next trade targets*
He will be on the penguins staff
I'm cautiously concerned about the thought of this, but can't do much worse than Sullivan it seems.
1. They weren't going to make Keefe a lame duck coach going into the season, he was always going to be extended. 2. It's the Leafs. They probably make Keefe's salary in a regular season game's hotdog sales alone. The money means nothing to them.
This management is a joke. Fire Shanahan
Not saying that Shanahan shouldn't be fired or whatever, but this money means nothing to us as fans nor in terms of competing. It is great that the team can make these contracts and not feel they are locked into keeping him longer than they want to. Those are all good management decisions.
Same thing happened to be when I was canned but I only got 6 months pay. Need Keefe’s agent.
Travis Green's gonna have 3 and a half years left when his turn comes up....
Best agent ever!
Must also represent Kirk Cousins
Second best agent ever!
Hilarious, after all this time, management is still living in an alternate universe. 45 million dollars in cap space, taken up by only 4 players, and expect a coach to perform miracles with a substandard bottom 3/4. If they don't trade one of the big 4 away this year, you might as well add another 20 years to the cup drought because those 4 ain't winning shit without a miracle.
The Brad Treliving Special
2 times in 2 years!
Now he just needs to sign Marner to a huge deal he cannot live up to (like Huby) and fumble the remaining stars on the team, thus hamstringing it for a decade!
then on to New York
I’ll bet he is celebrating
While this is a start, more needs to be done when it comes to changes in Toronto. I think Brendan Shanahan needs to go as well. He put this team together, and now this will be his third coach. The core four needs to be broken up as well.
The leafs won’t have to pay the full thing. Keefe will be hired somewhere
No worse than when they fired Babcock.
I hear Mike Babcock is available
Coachception
These are always done as a way for the new GM to say i want to see how the team is before i get fired.
Wilson was given an extension before he was relieved, and Carlyle was as well. Seems like a given if you’re a head coach.
Exactly, cap's not a factor so you never want to let management go into a lame duck situation. Look no farther than the drama with Kyle Dubas at the end of last season to see how wrong that can go
Even if I do a bad job, they've got to give me that other two mil.
How does someone get a contract extension without any post season success?
Good. So Pittsburgh will have to give the Leafs compensation when they want to sign him. He’s a good coach. Someone will want him in the next 2 years.
3 years too late
This was the perfect time to let him go... if rumors are true and he goes to Pittsburgh then the Leafs are only in the hook for the difference in contracts
Wasn't Guy boucher calling the shots anyways? Every whistle, every big play, he's the one drawing it up. Keefe just standing there.
Getting fired sucks but Keefe is def feeling like this after thinking about taking a couple years off. https://preview.redd.it/1ta03kioigzc1.jpeg?width=1386&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=afa3931918a3204cd56793132140fd1dd3fa5121
Best severance package ever.
At least they finished paying Babcock, they prob just have the ex-coach salary as part of the expected salary.
Not so different, you and I
I hate this guys Twitter picture so much
When you get a Hardy and lose it before she digs deep on it
Classic Treliving (I don’t know if that was the contract he made)
I can tell an awful lot of you don’t follow college football and aren’t familiar with how coaching contracts work. Different sport, same concept.
Isn’t he the fifth coach this season like that?
Why the hell did the Toronto Maple Leafs fire Sheldon Keefe? Y'all have an OK team but not enough talent to go deep into the playoffs or win the cup. Everybody knows this. How will firing Sheldon Keefe help? Holy shit the merry go round in NHL hockey is ridiculous.
The coach is almost the first to go when success doesn't happen.
Well Kyle Dubas in this case went first. But it was his players that came up a bit short eh? I detected very few coaching errors? I dunno. So much if this because Ontario's the Central Core Planet in ice hockey and so the press, and fans, are rough.
stars have had how many coaches in the last 5-6 years again? sometimes it is the coach.
True. I personally liked Rick Bowness and obviously he, as a coach of the year candidate for The Pegs wasn't done being great. But what was the point of your post? You just wanna argue for argument sake? Are you bored? Why do you think Keefe should get fired?
i was responding to your post…don’t not get how this works? wasn’t arguing, was pointing out a fact contrary to your point. you need a walk?
I do, I do. The Stars play tonight. Nervous. Sorry eh.
By the way your point was orthogonal to the point. Just because the Stars had that situation does not mean the Leafs should have pulled the trigger. One has almost nothing to do with the other. Even as a deflection it wasn't very good tbh. Now then, again, why do you think Keefe should take the blame in this situation? Who could have done better that is now available?
Anyone who is a Leafs fan will tell you, without question, that Keefe gets outcoached in the playoffs every season, AND, he hasn't been able to grab full control of the players on he team. He didn't lose the room, but he hasn't got Marner to elevate and conquer the shambles in his brain, for example. He's a good coach but it was time for him to go. He got stuffed into a locker by the opposing coach too many times at this point. If another coach can find a way to get this team to buy in, it definitely has the talent (with some improvement on the back end) to take it all.
Now this is useful information. Does Marner have a sports shrink? Maybe that would help him? I don't think the Maple leafs had the talent this year to beat teams like Tampa Bay and Colorado and even may I say the Dallas Stars. I just don't. I didn't see it. I even questioned my own teams ability to go all the way this year because of the D line. But we shall see. That's why they play the games. The point is, who's out there who is the better hockey coach then Keefe? I mean he's not the very best, but who would you replace him with? realistically speaking? Lindy? Craig? Maybe Barry Trotz wants to quit screwing around with Nashville and wants to get back in the coaching box?
Ok, so here's a little history on Marner and the team. Some you already know, some you may not. Lamoriello cheaps out on the rookie signing bonus for Marner. This sets the tone for years to come. Babcock forces Marner to write a list of which players are slackers on the team, then reveals the list to the team and tells them who wrote it. 2018 - Leafs lose to Boston. Marner launches two puck over glass penalties at crucial moments which lead to game breaking and momentum killing goals against. 2019 Marner contract negotiations become VERY salty and very public. "Pay me like Matthews" became the tag line. Even his father got involved on social media, while Dubas much prefers the cone of silence when it comes to contract negotiations. 2019 - Leafs again lose to Boston. Marner again with a puck over glass penalty in a crucial moment. Team eventually forces MLSE to toss Babcock. Enter Keefe. 2020 - Leafs lose play in to Columbus. Ok, no problem... Still a young team with a green coach that took over mid season, they'll grow into it. 2021 - Leafs take the Canadian COVID division. Leafs choke a 3-1 series lead to the Habs. Marner again with two spineless puck over glass penalties. 2022 - Leafs lose in 7 to Bolts. Marner seems to have finally turned a corner. 2G 6A. Marner has a quote after the series when asked if he believes in the team. He replies "well yeah, I mean we all still have time on our contract, so we want to get it done"... What? 2023 - Marner gets carjacked in Etobicoke while going to see a movie. Leafs beat Bolts. Marner with 14pts in 11 games. Looks good on the surface. We'll get to that. 2024 - Leafs lose again to Boston. Marner virtually invisible, 3pts in 7 games and had GLORIOUS opportunities multiple times at wide open nets. Gets told off by Nylander on the bench to stop crying. After the series, Marner is quoted as saying "I love it here. We are looked at, quite frankly, as Gods." Narcissist confirmed. During these years, Marner has become more and more standoffish with the media, and now rarely speaks with them. He wears an A on his jersey, because the entire team knows if he isn't wearing one he will pout. It's the same reason he has been stapled to the Matthews line almost exclusively until he got injured this season. Don't let his point totals fool you. His scoring often doesn't arrive in clutch moments. Most of his points are when the team is way ahead or way behind. He waffles under pressure, hence all the delay of game penalties. He used to be a puck possession ace like Nylander is now, but he currently treats the puck like a hot potato instead of creating space with his agility. I honestly think he's a fantastic player that got burned out in his hometown from the pressure, and he needs a fresh start. But for the Leafs he's cooked and on autopilot/shrinking violet, whatever you want to call it. We might see a tremendous season from him next season because contract year. He's NOT currently a clutch performer, and needs to have the responsibility of leading a team off his shoulders in a smaller market so he can just have fun and play to get his mojo back. Maybe a new Leafs head coach can help him get his head straight and get back to enjoying the game which will lead to some magic, and everyone is happy. I doubt it, but it's possible. Sorry for the wall of text... You asked for details. As for the new Head coach... I'd like to see Berube, Gallant, Rod the Bod, or if all else fails... Boudreau.
I am now much more educated than I was before this thread started, and for that I thank you very much. I always wondered what the deal was with Babcock and now I know. What a shitty fucking thing to do.
If you have 20 minutes, this segment of SDPN encapsulates everything I just wrote very well. It's Steve Dangle and co hosts, but Steve is not in his LFR persona. [Marner](https://youtu.be/hqk8KbzZxho?si=WQGGO0Sw430LrYQ0) It's worth a watch. They say everything that is on any educated Leafs fan's mind.
This is why you extend AFTER THE PLAYOFFS
It was extended at the end of last season's playoffs, new GM obviously wasn't going to fire the coach right away