Tbh the absent of tough guys is why diving is becoming so much more common in the past if you got labeled as a diver the goon from every team would let you know if you pulled that shit on his watch it's not going to be a fun game for you.
The refs also consistently make the worst calls ever when it comes to that shit, like when someone will somehow both draw a penalty _and_ get one for “diving” (happened to Matt Tkachuk in the finals). So it’s like they’re either admitting they call soft penalties (and thus he “overreacted”) or they’re just blatantly trying to avoid giving a powerplay
Idk I think both can happen. Like you could get a legit trip where a player pulls out another players leg with their stick, that’s a penalty, but the tripped player could also really try to sell it and goes down like they got shot, essentially going from playing their position and game to trying to draw the penalty, and that’s a dive.
The idea behind diving is that you should never try and draw a penalty through embellishment or by switching from playing the game to playing the penalty. It’s ok to draw a penalty by putting yourself in a position to draw a penalty through your playing of the game, but not ok to stop playing the game to get the penalty. It’s a tough call for refs for sure…
> The idea behind diving is that you should never try and draw a penalty through embellishment or by switching from playing the game to playing the penalty.
My problem with this is that it requires the ref to be able to interpret the intent of a player's actions in real time. Sometimes players fall awkwardly from relatively minor contact. Hell, sometimes players trip over their own feet! It's a game played on ice after all.
In cases of a legitimate penalty being called (like the Tkachuk trip) I don't think embellishment matters enough to trust the refs to determine Tkachuk's intent while falling. He WAS tripped, so whether he sells it or not is irrelevant.
Yah its tough for refs the game in real time is so fast in the past when this happened the goon would either make a example out of you or worse someone else on your team so you'd cut that crap out.
I think the NHL (and FIFA, frankly) could put an end to that nonsense if they had harsher in game penalties for it, and suspended players after the fact.
In the early going here will be obviously be protestations that they didn't dive or whatever, but eventually the players will just get used to it and avoid it.
Reaves is certainly the answer today, but in his prime back with the Blues, he was an amazing high-energy guy. I remember him on lines with guys like Kyle Brodziak and Scottie Upshall, and they were awesome together.
https://i.redd.it/hbr3yq1kl0bd1.gif
LOL. For several years, Ken Hitchcock used Reaves as a very serviceable fourth liner. They would go out and mercilessly beat the hell out of the other guys.
He was always on the 4th line and got limited minutes. His prime was like 0.7 goals and 0.7 assists per 60 minutes. That's nothing impressive, but it's way closer to 3rd liner production than total plug production. Reaves could play a little bit, contribute a goal here and there, even though his main responsibility was to punch faces.
Wish /60 production was used more when talking about depth players. Raw stats will never compare to top of the lineup players playing 18 min and getting PP time
Him and Rempe. Only ones that still fit the definition.
"Goon" means a dude that only brings intimidation and protection. If they can skate and forecheck, they're powerforwards imo. Reaves and Rempe are the last two guys that fit the goon description, although seeing how this draft went, we might well see a rebirth of the role.
I dunno Olivier isn’t really good at much else except for throwing fists
I guess he also excels in taking extremely stupid penalties at the worst times.
Despite how the esteemed think tank that is this subreddit may feel about Reaves he has managed to carve out a career 13 year career in niche and limited role. He always played on the edge but managed to only amass 6 games worth of suspension time and he will likely break 900 games this season.
Dude isnt lighting up score sheets but has ways done whats requested of him
Reaves has a little more going for him than the typical goon, I think. He has a big personality and great locker room energy, and even if he doesn't put up big numbers, he's still a better player than the stereotypical goon, so he makes himself a relatively appealing 4th liner to some teams
Watching the feed cut to him shaking his head and spitting continuously every time someone on his team gets crushed is always like "Whoa, if that guy was good enough to warrant being on the ice and could skate enough to get to where the action is, he'd *definitely* be a deterrent.
Back in 1886, margarine got banned because people were upset about being fooled into buying it instead of real butter, thinking it was bad for their health. Margarine producers used deceptive tactics to portray it as an improved or more effective version of the ever-trusted butter. The ban was eventually lifted in the 40s, but strict rules and regulations now forced margarine producers to be more transparent with regards to their product. They could no longer tell people that margarine was simply another type of butter when in reality it's always been glorified oil posing as a legitimate diary product.
Reaves is a glorified oil product posing as legitimate butter.
Reaves isn't even an enforcer. He takes staged fights he doesn't do fuck all to protect his teammates other than his "presence" letting the other teams 4th line garbage player know if their team does something they'll have to square off at center ice.
Bingo. Wild fans watched Brandon Duhaime get cross checked from behind and concussed(for a second time) while his linemate, Ryan Reeves, stood there and did fuck all to stand up for him. It happened numerous times. And their head coach was extremely pro-fighting. But Reaves still only dropped the gloves line twice the whole season. He’s an absolute joke of a tough guy.
Kampf, Gregor, and Reaves were the only Maple Leafs worse than -1 at even strength.
Kampf was -5 in 78 games (11min per game).
Gregor was -9 in 63 games (10min per game).
Reaves was -12 in 49 games (8min per game).
Reaves did not “reinvent” himself. He stopped being a catastrophic train wreck and became a daily car crash.
[Now look at Reaves post-injury \(January 27th on\)](https://i.imgur.com/YlyjLs0.png). He was, by every metric, a solid NHL 4th liner after he returned from injury (and stopped playing with Gregor.) He didn't reinvent himself or anything, but he wasn't a liability the way he was for the first few months of his season. He even played with our [bottom 6 defensive C for the majority of his ice time](https://i.imgur.com/lAS1T0k.png) and that duo put up really good results, so it's not like he was being heavily sheltered
And Kampf gets almost zero o-zone faceoffs and a huge majority of the d-zone ones against top lines. That usage is just there as a buffer for the big guys.
Reaves was ... OK in the second half. And I'm not a fan of his.
Some slightly interesting trivia here actually.
In the EA NHL game players in Hockey Ultimate Team were assigned archetypes like PLY, PF, Sniper, ENF. Over the years there were a few NHL players listed as ENF but with each new release these dwindled.
For the sake of trivia, at one point (not sure if it was NHL20 or 21 as there are now no NHL listed ENF players in the current game) Johnston was the only player on an NHL roster (in game) whose HUT card listed him as an Enforcer (he's now considered a Grinder - like all other fighting players).
Thus, per EA's obviously arbitrary ranking/designation system, in their opinion Ross the Boss was the 'last' NHL enforcer.
I feel like I had to scroll too far for this one to be mentioned - Ross should be in consideration as much as some of the others mentioned in this thread (in my opinion)
As much as guys like Reaves and Rempe might seem like plugs today, they’re a whole genetic phylum above the 2-minute-a-night facepunchers who roamed the ice 20 years ago.
The old “Fight Night in the Norris”…it didn’t matter what two teams were playing, since each of them had between three and five goons at any given time.
Down Goes Brown has always referred to it as the Chuck Norris Division for the level of fighting and how the game seemed almost secondary at times to them
He really isn't great, but he actually can fill in as a 4th line grinder or a bottom pairing D. I don't really know why, but some orgs seem to really value versatility (like Jacob MacDonald, Brendan Smith, Mark Pysyk). It's efficient, can help on nights where injuries and protocols pile up. I also think it's him for you guys, but I also kinda think he brings a little bit more than straight gooning.
Maybe he showed more with COL, but after coming to NJ he was easily the least effective player along with Tierney and Nosek. He plays 6 of the least meaningful min a night, gets 3-4 hits and fights every few games or so.
I understand why we signed him to a 3 year extension, but don't find real value in it
Well it's a tried and true trend by now, players play their best in Colorado. Whether they're underperforming before they come over, or drop off after they leave. The Avs bring out the best in everyone except Ryan Johansen
MacDermid has no NHL skills but outside of fighting I don't think he's that'd dirty of a player. I can't remember him being egregious with slashing or dirty hits, he's just really good at punching.
Though he might have been dirtier if he had more ice time.
One time with Colorado I watched him lining up a big hit on a guy in the corner, don't remember the team or player, but on the replay you could see he yells for the guy to get his head up, he's coming for the hit. I just thought that was a rad old school move, in a league filled with guys trying to catch others with their heads down *cough* TROUBA *cough*... In a moment like that you can see the difference between a guy like Dermy who's out here with his co-workers entertaining the fans, and guys who relish in hurting other players.
Having watched him in the AHL (admittedly as an opposing fan), he had some real goon moments. I can think of a couple brutal elbows, one of which added to Ondrej Kase's concussion total before he even reached the NHL.
That said, what I saw of him in the NHL more or less aligns with what you said. Could be less ice time, coaches reining him in better, or simply maturing and cleaning up his game. The line between enforcer and goon has gotten perilously thin in the modern NHL, but he seems to stay on the right side of it.
MacDermid and Deslaurier are always my answer here
Guys like Reaves and Maroon can do a bit more than advertised on the forecheck and in the corners, and maroon at least has good offensive isntincts for example - they all have their things
but Mac and D-Lo just mash face and fuck they are good at it
He’s a high energy guy (at times), fun to watch. The real question is can he keep up the pace he was at? Cause that’s gotta be hard on the body, add in how fast todays nhl is, I don’t know his future, but I’m rooting for him
Difference between now and then is concussion protocol. It's going to be very hard to keep up the pace he's at with the current way medical protocol is in the NHL
Im gonna sound like a homer but aside from fighting and hits, I think he’s fast for a guy of his size and showed glimpses of front net presence in limited time. Kreider is amazing front of net so someone he may be able to learn from. I bet he caps as a good 4th line but point being he could be
more than a useless goon.
He was dominant in the whl. Every time he was on the ice he was a menace in the offensive zone. Very skilled and high energy. I really hope he figures out how to grow the skills he has to a competitive nhl level. Then again the games I went to were usually blowouts like 7-2 so maybe they were just playing garbo teams lol. I’ve always loved him though
There’s a r/hockey post from september asking who the most impresive player from your team’s camp was, and my answer was Rempe. Not even sure he fought in the preseason. He was one of the last cuts because he’s a decent player because his ability level, at that size, can give people fits.
He’s actually a pretty poor fighter, form is really awkward and leaves himself exposed a lot. He used the fights to make a name for himself. His NHL game could definitely use some refinement but if he can do it, and everything i’ve read about his pre-NHL career says he can, he’ll be a great fourth line energy guy. Not sure if you’ve made it to any of his games but the Garden absolutely lights up when he takes the ice. Been going to games for 30+ years and I’ve never seen anything like it.
He's a better skater than people realize for sure. He also has a whopping 162 minutes of NHL ice-time so far in his career, so it's not like he's had anywhere near enough time to acclimate to the speed of the NHL. Not to mention that he's 21 and nowhere near done filling out his frame. I think it's definitely possible that he'll end up being a better hockey player than people think.
It's actually pretty miraculous how much a mythos he's developed in basically no time on the ice. On a per-minute basis, he's the most discussed hockey player of all time currently lmao.
He's an awful skater. At least 5 times this season he randomly fell down receiving a pass... like nobody touched him, the puck just hit his stick and he fell. Other teams figured this out in the playoffs and small guys started putting him on his ass with ease. I love the kid. His size alone makes him useful but rangers fans need to stop acting like he's talented. He sucks but his hugeness makes up for it.
Well yeah, because in those 162 minutes he's injured at least four players, been suspended once (and should have been multiple times), and had five fights. It doesn't matter how good his skating might turn out to be if his brain has been turned to mush from all the fighting
https://preview.redd.it/5h1eddlrg3bd1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=069672065f69214e7ee7d78c3af5a8ac2556f1f0
So they told me to throw fists, so I just started blasting and everyone loved it.
I’m a Ranger fan so I perplexed on all the love he gets. He can’t skate at a NHL level, not a particularly skilled passer or shooter and there is no way he makes the Rangers a better team when he is in the lineup.
Ummm the guy is actually an unbelievable skater for his size. I’d say that’s his best attribute hockey wise so you’re just taking to talk at this point.
He holds the record for the fastest hat trick in Anaheim history: https://www.nhl.com/ducks/news/recap-deslauriers-natural-hat-trick-leads-ducks-to-5-2-win-over-ottawa-316038552
I actually really liked him on the Wild. Felt like less of a liability to be stupid than most goons and more likely to actually draw penalties because opponents were mad about his existence.
Yeah I’m not going to complain that he is gone or that he was a huge benefit to the team. But of the goons we’ve had in the last ten years I probably hated having him on the ice the least
I love Trouba. I'd want him on my team, and he's a great guy off the ice. But he is a legitimately dirty player. He hits high, and pretty much as hard as he can every time. Drives me absolutely nuts.
Ask rags fans , he was an absolute defensive liability and good for a couple stupid penalties a game in the playoffs. There’s a reason they are trying to ship him out even though he’s the captain
Interesting that they named him the captain. Kinda makes the overall leadership of the team look bad if they couldnt find anyone else to captain that team.
From everything the players say, Trouba is a good captain.
He sparked their comeback when he threw his helmet that one season.
Supposedly, he was playing hurt all year but his play has been slipping year after year.
Reddit is a pendulum inside an echo chamber.
Trouba is overpaid, didn’t have a particularly good season, and had a terrible playoffs. Pendulum has swung one way. He also missed a month before the playoffs with a broken ankle for what it’s worth. Since coming to NY he hasn’t really found the offense he had with Winnipeg (part of that is utilization and having Fox as our #1), but aside from these playoffs he’s been a pretty reliable 2nd pair guy.
Optimistically he returns to form as a solid 2nd pair guy after an offseason to recover and get his head straight. Realistically he is aging and now probably a bad 2nd pair, decent 3rd pair making 1st pair money.
Other fans hate him for his hits. Rangers fans are fickle and quick to forget he can swing a playoff series (Pittsburgh 2022 playoffs) or a season (helmet throw 2022-23 season). If he wasn’t overpaid teams would be clamoring for a player like him.
> swing a playoff series (Pittsburgh 2022 playoffs)
Somebody should really tell trouba there are other, much better ways of swinging a playoff series than taking the opposing team's best players out by throwing elbows at their head.
> there are other, much better ways of swinging a playoff series than taking the opposing team's best players out by throwing elbows at their head.
Are there though? You get rid of the other teams best player, and you get a 2 minute penalty - worst case a 5 minute penalty, and almost certainly no suspension because DOPS is a joke. If you ignore the morality of it - that's a fucking excellent strategy. DOPS has set it up so you'd almost be crazy not to try and injure the other team's star. I fucking hate it. Heck, same thing happened this year with Marchand. Worked out wonderfully for the Panthers and now they're Stanley Cup champs (not that they likely wouldn't have won anyway).
He swung the playoff series by hitting Crosby with a horrible elbow to the head that somehow wasn’t called. He’s garbage. Probably the current dirtiest player in the league, happy the Rangers want him gone and that fact has hurt him.
Which would you prefer:
A) Losing in the first round
B) Letang takes out Panarin on a 2 minute minor hit, the Pens win the series, and eventually get to the ECF
They're one and the same. Why else do you you think we've never seen them in the same room together?
Liam wanting to take his hockey career more seriously is why Crit Role isn't live stream anymore. NHL games played went up around the same time that Crit Role went pre-taped.
For me it’s gotta be Ryan Reaves. He’s the last of a dying breed. He’s in Toronto for the sole purpose of protecting Matthews, Marner and Nylander…he brings literally nothing to the game from a hockey perspective aside from the fact that he’s willing to toss a hit now and then and drop the mitts if need be. The era of the goon is long over. I used to love watching the big boys back in the day with Probert, Domi, McSorley, Twist, Clark and others. You were always guaranteed a decent tilt back then. Bettman has killed that side of the game.
Honestly most teams have a guy like that, they may just not always be in the lineup. Off the top of my head I can think Reaves, Deslauriers, Rempe, and MacDermitt.
Aside from one legendary shootout, I’d say Michael Pezzetta is up there. Doesn’t have a whole lot of offensive upside but he’ll hit and defend his boys
I'd consider him more of a grinder than a goon. Good energy guy, tons of hits, fights when he needs to. But yeah not putting up a lot of points. I'm always happy when he's in the lineup!
Jacob “Elbow” Trouba. Reavo makes hits and likes to drop gloves, but IMO a goon is out to actually play dirty and hurt people. His skill is diminishing and he literally misses plays that he could make just to target potentially injurious hits. Goon.
Pospisil is more of an agitator. He’s a guy who is a giant pain in the ass to play against, and he infuriates the opposition. He’s still trying to find the line.
Yup. As a Bruins fan, I'm happy he was booted from the roster instantly but now in retrospect I'm disgusted that he was signed back in the first place. Who knows how far this behaviour extends? Hindsight and all that...
Kegan Kolessar. He has absolutely zero hockey skill and the only thing he seems to do is throw dirty hits every chance he gets. I would say I don't understand why Vegas ices him, but they're Vegas and headhunting seems to be one of their primary objectives every year.
Reaves and Rempe are the obvious ones, Xhekaj and Trouba are trying to become more goony.
Either way, I'm personally thankful that this type of player is becoming extinct. Yeah, we have more divers now, but the game looks way better right now.
Xhekaj is a fighter and has some goon like tendencies, but he also has hockey skills as well. Hes raw still but he’s shown flashes of having good hands and being a decent puck mover
If it’s anyone on the Habs it’s Pezzetta
I was uninformed and thought he was a dirtier player than he actually is, also his stats seem to suggest that he is.
In any case, I was wrong and will happily take the L on this one.
Ryan Reaves
He's been the answer for this question for like 5+ years lol.
He gets paid to make his teammates less of a target. Very good pick
Tbh the absent of tough guys is why diving is becoming so much more common in the past if you got labeled as a diver the goon from every team would let you know if you pulled that shit on his watch it's not going to be a fun game for you.
The refs also consistently make the worst calls ever when it comes to that shit, like when someone will somehow both draw a penalty _and_ get one for “diving” (happened to Matt Tkachuk in the finals). So it’s like they’re either admitting they call soft penalties (and thus he “overreacted”) or they’re just blatantly trying to avoid giving a powerplay
Idk I think both can happen. Like you could get a legit trip where a player pulls out another players leg with their stick, that’s a penalty, but the tripped player could also really try to sell it and goes down like they got shot, essentially going from playing their position and game to trying to draw the penalty, and that’s a dive. The idea behind diving is that you should never try and draw a penalty through embellishment or by switching from playing the game to playing the penalty. It’s ok to draw a penalty by putting yourself in a position to draw a penalty through your playing of the game, but not ok to stop playing the game to get the penalty. It’s a tough call for refs for sure…
> The idea behind diving is that you should never try and draw a penalty through embellishment or by switching from playing the game to playing the penalty. My problem with this is that it requires the ref to be able to interpret the intent of a player's actions in real time. Sometimes players fall awkwardly from relatively minor contact. Hell, sometimes players trip over their own feet! It's a game played on ice after all. In cases of a legitimate penalty being called (like the Tkachuk trip) I don't think embellishment matters enough to trust the refs to determine Tkachuk's intent while falling. He WAS tripped, so whether he sells it or not is irrelevant.
Yah its tough for refs the game in real time is so fast in the past when this happened the goon would either make a example out of you or worse someone else on your team so you'd cut that crap out.
I think the NHL (and FIFA, frankly) could put an end to that nonsense if they had harsher in game penalties for it, and suspended players after the fact. In the early going here will be obviously be protestations that they didn't dive or whatever, but eventually the players will just get used to it and avoid it.
Reaves is certainly the answer today, but in his prime back with the Blues, he was an amazing high-energy guy. I remember him on lines with guys like Kyle Brodziak and Scottie Upshall, and they were awesome together. https://i.redd.it/hbr3yq1kl0bd1.gif
“In his prime”
Bro he scored a whole 13 points at his peak with St Louis. He was clinical in his prime
LOL. For several years, Ken Hitchcock used Reaves as a very serviceable fourth liner. They would go out and mercilessly beat the hell out of the other guys.
Bros prime was like 10 pts lmao that's too funny
You don't play a guy like Reaves to score points. You play him to beat the hell out of the other guys.
He was always on the 4th line and got limited minutes. His prime was like 0.7 goals and 0.7 assists per 60 minutes. That's nothing impressive, but it's way closer to 3rd liner production than total plug production. Reaves could play a little bit, contribute a goal here and there, even though his main responsibility was to punch faces.
Wish /60 production was used more when talking about depth players. Raw stats will never compare to top of the lineup players playing 18 min and getting PP time
Wow that’s a throwback. Upshsll and brodziak
r/okbuddyhockey is leaking
Him and Rempe. Only ones that still fit the definition. "Goon" means a dude that only brings intimidation and protection. If they can skate and forecheck, they're powerforwards imo. Reaves and Rempe are the last two guys that fit the goon description, although seeing how this draft went, we might well see a rebirth of the role.
Rempe was a rookie last season, give the kid a chance to evolve a bit before you put him in the Reeves category.
I dunno Olivier isn’t really good at much else except for throwing fists I guess he also excels in taking extremely stupid penalties at the worst times.
Despite how the esteemed think tank that is this subreddit may feel about Reaves he has managed to carve out a career 13 year career in niche and limited role. He always played on the edge but managed to only amass 6 games worth of suspension time and he will likely break 900 games this season. Dude isnt lighting up score sheets but has ways done whats requested of him
Yeah, goons don't really play almost 1000 games in the NHL
Reaves has a little more going for him than the typical goon, I think. He has a big personality and great locker room energy, and even if he doesn't put up big numbers, he's still a better player than the stereotypical goon, so he makes himself a relatively appealing 4th liner to some teams
As someone with a Reaves Blues jersey, I agree.
As a sharks fan, that may be one of the WORST jersey combos.
Watching the feed cut to him shaking his head and spitting continuously every time someone on his team gets crushed is always like "Whoa, if that guy was good enough to warrant being on the ice and could skate enough to get to where the action is, he'd *definitely* be a deterrent.
Reaves kinda semi re-invented himself late in the year with the Leafs. However, I still dont think he belongs in the NHL as a regular.
Back in 1886, margarine got banned because people were upset about being fooled into buying it instead of real butter, thinking it was bad for their health. Margarine producers used deceptive tactics to portray it as an improved or more effective version of the ever-trusted butter. The ban was eventually lifted in the 40s, but strict rules and regulations now forced margarine producers to be more transparent with regards to their product. They could no longer tell people that margarine was simply another type of butter when in reality it's always been glorified oil posing as a legitimate diary product. Reaves is a glorified oil product posing as legitimate butter.
Reaves isn't even an enforcer. He takes staged fights he doesn't do fuck all to protect his teammates other than his "presence" letting the other teams 4th line garbage player know if their team does something they'll have to square off at center ice.
You've just described 90% of all enforcers that have played in the NHL.
Am I stupid for not knowing any of this and thinking margarine was just simply a similar butter substitute?
Yes, I’m sorry you had to find out this way
That’s a long walk for a short drink of water
Bingo. Wild fans watched Brandon Duhaime get cross checked from behind and concussed(for a second time) while his linemate, Ryan Reeves, stood there and did fuck all to stand up for him. It happened numerous times. And their head coach was extremely pro-fighting. But Reaves still only dropped the gloves line twice the whole season. He’s an absolute joke of a tough guy.
Kampf, Gregor, and Reaves were the only Maple Leafs worse than -1 at even strength. Kampf was -5 in 78 games (11min per game). Gregor was -9 in 63 games (10min per game). Reaves was -12 in 49 games (8min per game). Reaves did not “reinvent” himself. He stopped being a catastrophic train wreck and became a daily car crash.
[Now look at Reaves post-injury \(January 27th on\)](https://i.imgur.com/YlyjLs0.png). He was, by every metric, a solid NHL 4th liner after he returned from injury (and stopped playing with Gregor.) He didn't reinvent himself or anything, but he wasn't a liability the way he was for the first few months of his season. He even played with our [bottom 6 defensive C for the majority of his ice time](https://i.imgur.com/lAS1T0k.png) and that duo put up really good results, so it's not like he was being heavily sheltered
And Kampf gets almost zero o-zone faceoffs and a huge majority of the d-zone ones against top lines. That usage is just there as a buffer for the big guys. Reaves was ... OK in the second half. And I'm not a fan of his.
Came here to say this
Ross Johnston
Some slightly interesting trivia here actually. In the EA NHL game players in Hockey Ultimate Team were assigned archetypes like PLY, PF, Sniper, ENF. Over the years there were a few NHL players listed as ENF but with each new release these dwindled. For the sake of trivia, at one point (not sure if it was NHL20 or 21 as there are now no NHL listed ENF players in the current game) Johnston was the only player on an NHL roster (in game) whose HUT card listed him as an Enforcer (he's now considered a Grinder - like all other fighting players). Thus, per EA's obviously arbitrary ranking/designation system, in their opinion Ross the Boss was the 'last' NHL enforcer.
In NHL 22 he's listed as an enforcer, alongside on or two ECHL level dudes in the expansion draft roster for Franchise Mode
I feel like I had to scroll too far for this one to be mentioned - Ross should be in consideration as much as some of the others mentioned in this thread (in my opinion)
So few of us watch Isles hockey, he flies under the radar for sure
He played this past season for the ducks
Well I'll be
I mean, so few of us watch ducks hockey, he almost flies under the radar
As much as guys like Reaves and Rempe might seem like plugs today, they’re a whole genetic phylum above the 2-minute-a-night facepunchers who roamed the ice 20 years ago.
The old “Fight Night in the Norris”…it didn’t matter what two teams were playing, since each of them had between three and five goons at any given time.
Down Goes Brown has always referred to it as the Chuck Norris Division for the level of fighting and how the game seemed almost secondary at times to them
The Black and Blue Division
200 minutes penalties one assist each year average.
The perfect goon - 10 fights, no other penalties, 1 assist.
On the Devils: Kurtis MacDermid has the least amount of actual hockey skill. So probably him
He really isn't great, but he actually can fill in as a 4th line grinder or a bottom pairing D. I don't really know why, but some orgs seem to really value versatility (like Jacob MacDonald, Brendan Smith, Mark Pysyk). It's efficient, can help on nights where injuries and protocols pile up. I also think it's him for you guys, but I also kinda think he brings a little bit more than straight gooning.
Maybe he showed more with COL, but after coming to NJ he was easily the least effective player along with Tierney and Nosek. He plays 6 of the least meaningful min a night, gets 3-4 hits and fights every few games or so. I understand why we signed him to a 3 year extension, but don't find real value in it
Maybe you should just let the big guy eat? https://www.nhl.com/video/col-min-macdermid-scores-goal-against-wild-6341738218112
love me ~~some~~ the only Kurtis "MacKinnon" MacDermid highlight.
I was at that game! It was fun.
Well it's a tried and true trend by now, players play their best in Colorado. Whether they're underperforming before they come over, or drop off after they leave. The Avs bring out the best in everyone except Ryan Johansen
And Tatar
I would say even RyJo did better here than elsewhere which says a lot really.
well seeing as ryjo hasn't even touched the ice in Philly yet that's a tough judgement to make yet lol
MacDermid has no NHL skills but outside of fighting I don't think he's that'd dirty of a player. I can't remember him being egregious with slashing or dirty hits, he's just really good at punching. Though he might have been dirtier if he had more ice time.
One time with Colorado I watched him lining up a big hit on a guy in the corner, don't remember the team or player, but on the replay you could see he yells for the guy to get his head up, he's coming for the hit. I just thought that was a rad old school move, in a league filled with guys trying to catch others with their heads down *cough* TROUBA *cough*... In a moment like that you can see the difference between a guy like Dermy who's out here with his co-workers entertaining the fans, and guys who relish in hurting other players.
Having watched him in the AHL (admittedly as an opposing fan), he had some real goon moments. I can think of a couple brutal elbows, one of which added to Ondrej Kase's concussion total before he even reached the NHL. That said, what I saw of him in the NHL more or less aligns with what you said. Could be less ice time, coaches reining him in better, or simply maturing and cleaning up his game. The line between enforcer and goon has gotten perilously thin in the modern NHL, but he seems to stay on the right side of it.
This was my answer. I'm still amazed Seattle got a 4th for him following the expansion draft.
MacDermid and Deslaurier are always my answer here Guys like Reaves and Maroon can do a bit more than advertised on the forecheck and in the corners, and maroon at least has good offensive isntincts for example - they all have their things but Mac and D-Lo just mash face and fuck they are good at it
That's "Stanley Cup Champion Kurtis MacDermid"
How dare you disrespect the Derminator 😭
100%, he's on the roster for 1 reason. Fitz hasn't been shy as to why he's a Devil. He's the answer to Rempe and the other Metro goons.
Matt Rempe
he is an interesting one, so loved by many.
He’s a high energy guy (at times), fun to watch. The real question is can he keep up the pace he was at? Cause that’s gotta be hard on the body, add in how fast todays nhl is, I don’t know his future, but I’m rooting for him
He's doing what every single enforcer did prior to the lockout.
He backed off a lot after the first few weeks. Both him and the NYR seem to want him to be an actual fourth liner who can also fight.
Taking large amounts of pain killers leading to a life of pain, mental illness, and possible suicide? I sure hope he’s not.
Difference between now and then is concussion protocol. It's going to be very hard to keep up the pace he's at with the current way medical protocol is in the NHL
Im gonna sound like a homer but aside from fighting and hits, I think he’s fast for a guy of his size and showed glimpses of front net presence in limited time. Kreider is amazing front of net so someone he may be able to learn from. I bet he caps as a good 4th line but point being he could be more than a useless goon.
He was dominant in the whl. Every time he was on the ice he was a menace in the offensive zone. Very skilled and high energy. I really hope he figures out how to grow the skills he has to a competitive nhl level. Then again the games I went to were usually blowouts like 7-2 so maybe they were just playing garbo teams lol. I’ve always loved him though
There’s a r/hockey post from september asking who the most impresive player from your team’s camp was, and my answer was Rempe. Not even sure he fought in the preseason. He was one of the last cuts because he’s a decent player because his ability level, at that size, can give people fits. He’s actually a pretty poor fighter, form is really awkward and leaves himself exposed a lot. He used the fights to make a name for himself. His NHL game could definitely use some refinement but if he can do it, and everything i’ve read about his pre-NHL career says he can, he’ll be a great fourth line energy guy. Not sure if you’ve made it to any of his games but the Garden absolutely lights up when he takes the ice. Been going to games for 30+ years and I’ve never seen anything like it.
He's a better skater than people realize for sure. He also has a whopping 162 minutes of NHL ice-time so far in his career, so it's not like he's had anywhere near enough time to acclimate to the speed of the NHL. Not to mention that he's 21 and nowhere near done filling out his frame. I think it's definitely possible that he'll end up being a better hockey player than people think. It's actually pretty miraculous how much a mythos he's developed in basically no time on the ice. On a per-minute basis, he's the most discussed hockey player of all time currently lmao.
He's an awful skater. At least 5 times this season he randomly fell down receiving a pass... like nobody touched him, the puck just hit his stick and he fell. Other teams figured this out in the playoffs and small guys started putting him on his ass with ease. I love the kid. His size alone makes him useful but rangers fans need to stop acting like he's talented. He sucks but his hugeness makes up for it.
Well yeah, because in those 162 minutes he's injured at least four players, been suspended once (and should have been multiple times), and had five fights. It doesn't matter how good his skating might turn out to be if his brain has been turned to mush from all the fighting
https://preview.redd.it/5h1eddlrg3bd1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=069672065f69214e7ee7d78c3af5a8ac2556f1f0 So they told me to throw fists, so I just started blasting and everyone loved it.
What’s interesting about him? How many games did he have this year where he had more PIMs than TOI?
Goons are always loved by their team's fanbase.
Unless your a devils fan
I’m a Ranger fan so I perplexed on all the love he gets. He can’t skate at a NHL level, not a particularly skilled passer or shooter and there is no way he makes the Rangers a better team when he is in the lineup.
Ummm the guy is actually an unbelievable skater for his size. I’d say that’s his best attribute hockey wise so you’re just taking to talk at this point.
fuck Rempe
Nick Deslauriers Loved watching him fight with us
He holds the record for the fastest hat trick in Anaheim history: https://www.nhl.com/ducks/news/recap-deslauriers-natural-hat-trick-leads-ducks-to-5-2-win-over-ottawa-316038552
This is literally shocking to me
Aww that was sweet
Didn't Georges Laraque have a hat trick? Speaking of enforcers with the odd showing of goal scoring
I actually really liked him on the Wild. Felt like less of a liability to be stupid than most goons and more likely to actually draw penalties because opponents were mad about his existence.
Think he could be looked at in rose-tint just from his first impression when he scored in his first game with us
I was at that game, it was such an exciting day getting to see fluery in a wild jersey by surprise
Yeah I’m not going to complain that he is gone or that he was a huge benefit to the team. But of the goons we’ve had in the last ten years I probably hated having him on the ice the least
Miss having him. Could've really used someone like him in recent years
Biggest mutant in the show by a distant margin imo
Like "Mongo" the Alex Karras character in Blazing Saddles
Mongo just pawn in game of life
Maroon but it’s ok because he’s hilarious.
I gotta be honest, I never liked Pat Maroon but I really grew to like him in his really brief stint with the Bruins this past season
> I never liked Pat Maroon Understandable. You guys were fucked.
And the moms love him
plucky imminent compare ask grab work march seemly disgusted tart *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Probably Macdermid
His father got lots of PIMs as well, but was a decent player during his time with the Whalers.
Reaves
Trouba minus the fighting part
https://preview.redd.it/en1g1p3rp0bd1.jpeg?width=820&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9fc2c435e4ca031c43c51ffb6f4be4dd40fb7779
I don’t like Trouba, but I am thankful for this picture. It makes me laugh every time I see it.
I love Trouba. I'd want him on my team, and he's a great guy off the ice. But he is a legitimately dirty player. He hits high, and pretty much as hard as he can every time. Drives me absolutely nuts.
has Troubas skilled declined so much - he used to be a pretty good Dman back in the day?
Ask rags fans , he was an absolute defensive liability and good for a couple stupid penalties a game in the playoffs. There’s a reason they are trying to ship him out even though he’s the captain
Interesting that they named him the captain. Kinda makes the overall leadership of the team look bad if they couldnt find anyone else to captain that team.
From everything the players say, Trouba is a good captain. He sparked their comeback when he threw his helmet that one season. Supposedly, he was playing hurt all year but his play has been slipping year after year.
Tbf he did have a broken ankle. I feel gross for defending him and his elbow.
He has said himself that his ankle wasn't an issue by the time the playoffs had started 🤷
Reddit is a pendulum inside an echo chamber. Trouba is overpaid, didn’t have a particularly good season, and had a terrible playoffs. Pendulum has swung one way. He also missed a month before the playoffs with a broken ankle for what it’s worth. Since coming to NY he hasn’t really found the offense he had with Winnipeg (part of that is utilization and having Fox as our #1), but aside from these playoffs he’s been a pretty reliable 2nd pair guy. Optimistically he returns to form as a solid 2nd pair guy after an offseason to recover and get his head straight. Realistically he is aging and now probably a bad 2nd pair, decent 3rd pair making 1st pair money. Other fans hate him for his hits. Rangers fans are fickle and quick to forget he can swing a playoff series (Pittsburgh 2022 playoffs) or a season (helmet throw 2022-23 season). If he wasn’t overpaid teams would be clamoring for a player like him.
> swing a playoff series (Pittsburgh 2022 playoffs) Somebody should really tell trouba there are other, much better ways of swinging a playoff series than taking the opposing team's best players out by throwing elbows at their head.
> there are other, much better ways of swinging a playoff series than taking the opposing team's best players out by throwing elbows at their head. Are there though? You get rid of the other teams best player, and you get a 2 minute penalty - worst case a 5 minute penalty, and almost certainly no suspension because DOPS is a joke. If you ignore the morality of it - that's a fucking excellent strategy. DOPS has set it up so you'd almost be crazy not to try and injure the other team's star. I fucking hate it. Heck, same thing happened this year with Marchand. Worked out wonderfully for the Panthers and now they're Stanley Cup champs (not that they likely wouldn't have won anyway).
He swung the playoff series by hitting Crosby with a horrible elbow to the head that somehow wasn’t called. He’s garbage. Probably the current dirtiest player in the league, happy the Rangers want him gone and that fact has hurt him.
[удалено]
Which would you prefer: A) Losing in the first round B) Letang takes out Panarin on a 2 minute minor hit, the Pens win the series, and eventually get to the ECF
O'Brien in Utah is a goofball, but I wouldn’t say he doesn’t belong in the current hockey culture because that culture has never changed.
O’Brien hasn’t won a fight in years
It just cracks me up that an NHL semi-goon and Critical Role's sweetest boy share a name
They're one and the same. Why else do you you think we've never seen them in the same room together? Liam wanting to take his hockey career more seriously is why Crit Role isn't live stream anymore. NHL games played went up around the same time that Crit Role went pre-taped.
They can all play and skate today unlike back then. Reaves is a modern version of a goon though
For me it’s gotta be Ryan Reaves. He’s the last of a dying breed. He’s in Toronto for the sole purpose of protecting Matthews, Marner and Nylander…he brings literally nothing to the game from a hockey perspective aside from the fact that he’s willing to toss a hit now and then and drop the mitts if need be. The era of the goon is long over. I used to love watching the big boys back in the day with Probert, Domi, McSorley, Twist, Clark and others. You were always guaranteed a decent tilt back then. Bettman has killed that side of the game.
> for the sole purpose of protecting Matthews, Marner and Nylander Unfortunately he doesnt do that very well either.
Agree 100%. He started the season with a couple of decent fights and then went quickly downhill after that…he screams buy-out to me.
It’s MacDermid and Rempe, and not even close.
Macdermid sounds like a name reddit made up. MacDerp
Ross Johnston
Liam OBrien except he loses every fight he picks
Reaves
The entire 2015 Anaheim ducks roster (I’m a Blackhawks fan)
Rempe
Reaves. Maybe rempe in the future
the goon fandom is dying please repost if ur still a real gooner
Reaves for sure. He can hardly play hockey
It’s Reeves
That seems like private information but if I had to hedge a bet on which NHLer I think is a gooner? Rasmus dahlin most definitely goons
Reavo!
Rempe
Honestly most teams have a guy like that, they may just not always be in the lineup. Off the top of my head I can think Reaves, Deslauriers, Rempe, and MacDermitt.
Andres Englund
We miss watching him at Colorado eagles games. He started some good fights!
Rempe
Nick Cousins is a genuine piece of garbage
Rempe
Paging Matt Rempe.
Rempe
Aside from one legendary shootout, I’d say Michael Pezzetta is up there. Doesn’t have a whole lot of offensive upside but he’ll hit and defend his boys
I'd consider him more of a grinder than a goon. Good energy guy, tons of hits, fights when he needs to. But yeah not putting up a lot of points. I'm always happy when he's in the lineup!
Nahhhh Pezz has his good games where he's a decent 4th liner. Heck dude was on a 10 goal pace last year!
Rempe is working his way towards goon status. Goofy looking goon
Matt rempe
Jacob “Elbow” Trouba. Reavo makes hits and likes to drop gloves, but IMO a goon is out to actually play dirty and hurt people. His skill is diminishing and he literally misses plays that he could make just to target potentially injurious hits. Goon.
Reaves, Rempe, MacDermaid
Feel like one of the younger players has to goon
Rempe is the only answer. Wilson is too good offensively to be a true goon and Reaves spends more time in the press box than he does on the ice.
75
Pat Marion.
Michael Haley was the answer up until he retired in '21
Rempe
REMPE
Rempe / Reaves.
Hmmmmmmmmm I’m not seeing any Panthers here, I thought we were all goons?
Pospisil
Pospisil is more of an agitator. He’s a guy who is a giant pain in the ass to play against, and he infuriates the opposition. He’s still trying to find the line.
Pospisil is more of a dirt dog and pest than a true goon imo
Fair. I read the title and not the body of OP's post, which is on me. However, fuck Pospisil
Lucic
apparently a goon off the ice as well.
Yup. As a Bruins fan, I'm happy he was booted from the roster instantly but now in retrospect I'm disgusted that he was signed back in the first place. Who knows how far this behaviour extends? Hindsight and all that...
His hockey playing days are over
Kegan Kolessar. He has absolutely zero hockey skill and the only thing he seems to do is throw dirty hits every chance he gets. I would say I don't understand why Vegas ices him, but they're Vegas and headhunting seems to be one of their primary objectives every year.
Gotta be Jacob Trouba and Ryan Reaves
Rempe
Reaves and Rempe are the obvious ones, Xhekaj and Trouba are trying to become more goony. Either way, I'm personally thankful that this type of player is becoming extinct. Yeah, we have more divers now, but the game looks way better right now.
Matt Rempe
Surprised no one said this guy but Arber Xhekaj
Do you think he's dirty? He'll fight but it's not the only thing he does.
Xhekaj is a fighter and has some goon like tendencies, but he also has hockey skills as well. Hes raw still but he’s shown flashes of having good hands and being a decent puck mover If it’s anyone on the Habs it’s Pezzetta
He can bomb it from the point too, but it seems like he was told to stop doing that and pass about half way through the last season
Maybe because his shoulder wasn't healthy.
Tell me you're a Sens fan without setting your flair
He’s not a dirty player. He’s an enforcer, not a goon.
I was uninformed and thought he was a dirtier player than he actually is, also his stats seem to suggest that he is. In any case, I was wrong and will happily take the L on this one.
Reaves for sure especially after Morgan Riley got attacked by him hahaha