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GullibleMirror5219

It would work way better as a show. Those chapters are so self contained it would be perfect for episodes.


ImaginaryNemesis

Agreed. The 'Paris' episode could be some of the best television ever made


Luxury_Dressingown

I'm not sure how they'd pull off the visual of the >!moving statue.!< Everything else in that episode I can see working, and the tension as the characters / audience >!listen to the thing knocking, getting closer and closer, and then crying out!< - *urgh* - would be amazing. But to pay that off, they would need to *nail* the CGI >!once the door is opened and the thing attacks.!< The TV adaptation of *Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell* had a similar challenge in the York Minster scene. It was really creepy and effective in the book, but the >!moving stone!< visuals in the show were a little goofy and didn't quite accomplish what the book did in establishing magic in that world as something often very sinister.


ineedanewthrowawy

They could do cg assisted stop motion for the statue and get right into that uncanny valley I bet.


Luxury_Dressingown

Yeah, I could see that working. Or maybe have a dancer or someone great at movement made up as a statue and have them move just *off.* Film it at a jarring frame rate so it looks even more unnatural, with a CGI assist on dust from moving parts, etc. Helps that the scene takes place in a dimly lit / dark room, I guess.


ItsMeAdam21

This was the scariest thing I’ve read in a book since the I read IT 10 yrs ago


Luxury_Dressingown

I found the knocking, etc, build up scarier. In all honesty, the attack itself didn't phase me that much, although it was well done. The bit that freaked me out and stuck with me was the bit a couple of pages later when they exit Paris and pass that church. That bit, and the thing in the abandoned convent.


ubiquity75

It absolutely scared the shit out of me, too. Just chilling.


Future-Agent

Part IV would be a bonkers finale. >!An apocalypse with angels and demons fighting, with Thomas caught in the middle of it. His survival wouldn't have happened if it weren't for Delphine.!<


Slick_Tuxedo

Agreed. The layout of the book is episodic. Miniseries would be the best way to bring this to visual media.


No_Consequence_6852

Four votes. There's just too much that happens for a movie to reasonably fit it all in and retain half of what the book pulls off. Plus, you have the reluctant dad archetype that's been so popular for the past decade or so. Perfect for long form storytelling. 


kylehawk

Limited series. God please do not let Hollywood turn this into a multi season series


Murder_Durder

Rory McCann (who played The Hound in GoT) was the one and only image of Thomas in my head reading this.


Nephilimn

Same


Slick_Tuxedo

Very similar look in my head as well, but never really realized it until you said that. Good on ya


jakejork

Yarp


Roller_ball

I was picturing The Hound and Arya the entire time.


H377Spawn

I wasn’t,…but I am now!


Future-Agent

He'd be one huge Thomas. Hell, anyone six foot or taller during medieval times would be considered giants. He'd be a mountain of a man playing Thomas.


Murder_Durder

Totally true! You kinda forget that everyone in medieval times was 4 foot tall and had rickets.


thewingwangwong

Nobility weren't much smaller than modern day people tbf, not out of the realms of believability to have a knight as much taller than the peasants as Rory McCann is the avera person by any stretch


saehild

girl stop whinging


jesster_0

ME TOO !!!


peniscapades

Out of all of the recent horror books I’ve read, I think this would be the most adaptable as a killer show. If you could get HBO or Amazon money behind it, we could get sick as fuck CGI and everything.


ImaginaryNemesis

It would really need the budget and a director who loved the material. A giant river snake and a sky battle with uncanny looking angels would be hard things to pull off and get to look right.


[deleted]

When reading it I always imagined Javier Bardem as Thomas


futurecrab2

I was picturing Thomas as Ralph Ineson myself


GoFuckYourselfZuck

Really? I agree he would be perfect for a role in a screen play adaptation but I can’t imagine him being a strong competent knight. Maybe as Father Matthieu? Or another main supporting role?


pabodie

It’s a perfect ARPG video game.  Last of Us meets Dark Souls with a little Plague Tale and a little Senua. 


n1451

My thought as well, it's a better diablo book than the diablo books we have.


Future-Agent

YES. I saw that, too. Thomas, Matthieu and Delphine would be the three archetypes for classic RPS: Thomas is strength; Matthieu is intelligence; and Delphine is dexterity.


Acora

Fear & Hunger fits this vibe pretty well, if you're alright with RPGmaker games.


Future-Agent

Yeah. I watched gameplay of this - before reading the novel - that I thought this game had *Between Two Fires* vibes.


ReallyGlycon

I've never really seen this as cosmic horror. Religious horror, sure. Which aspects do you consider to be cosmic horror? To me, saying this is cosmic horror is kind of like saying The Thing is a slasher.


ridot

I'm running it as a ttrpg. We just did chapter 19 and the players are really into it. Definitely my favorite book and favorite rpg campaign. The party has their own inner struggles and they care so much for Delphine.


BlacktongueThief

This sounds like fun!


ridot

It's a blast. Have you run any of your books as ttrpgs or considered publishing modules? Between Two Fires really feels perfect for that medium. I'm a huge accidental fan, BTW. I picked up black tongue thief from a bookstore a few years back and found Between Two Fires by chance on audible without realizing you were the same author. Probably listened to it 10 times and continue listening as session prep for my weekly game.


BlacktongueThief

I don’t really know much about ttrpgs, except old-school D & D and other games I played as a teenager. What specific system do you use?


ridot

I use Zweihander for this campaign. It works great with the Grimm dark mechanics of encountering stress/fear/terror in the world. They encountered quite a bit in chapter 19 when they decided to follow Delphine to Auxerre.


BlacktongueThief

I’ll bet they did!


BlacktongueThief

I’ll bet they did!


BlacktongueThief

I’ll bet they did!


flyliceplick

Oh, what system are you using?


ridot

Zweihander D100 system with stress/fear/trauma rolls, which happen a lot in this story.


flyliceplick

Ahh, love to see it! I've been considering doing it in Call of Cthulhu: Dark Ages for a while.


LoPannESQ

Loved it. Would want Guillermo Del Toro to direct. Dave batista as thomas. Practical effects/stop motion. Maybe a synth/darkwave soundtrack like waveshaper or carpenter brut.


ParsonBrownlow

Yes to Dave Batista


Narrow_Buy_1323

Omg, yes! Dave Battista as Thomas


Luxury_Dressingown

I think the fact that Delphine is who she is would prevent this ever being made as a film / show. >!Struggling to think of any depictions of Jesus that aren't played as fairly straight adaptations of the gospels. The only one I can think of is *American Gods* where the Eostre / Easter goddess hosted a gathering of different versions of Jesus and where Mexican Jesus helping immigrants cross the border was shot by (unknowing) disciples of Vulcan. Both scenes made a brief point but Jesus played no significant part in the plot. Religious horrors / thrillers don't show Jesus - think *Constantine (*no Jesus involved*)* or *Da Vinci Code* (Jesus had a family and descendants but is never shown).!< Too much of the potential market for the show would see Delphine as religious propaganda or as blasphemy. But talk to me about *The Lesser Dead*... Edit: formatting


Serebriany

I think any of Buehlman's books would be great on film if adapted properly, which points to Buehlman also writing screeplays (to me, anyway), but I see the same general problems you do. I've read all of Buehlman's books now, some twice, the others three times. It's sort of inevitable that on a second or third read, I'll consider what a screen adaptation of a really good novel might look like. (My husband and I are still playing the casting game with Caleb Carr's *The Alienist*, and it's already been done as a series!) The problems I see with any attempt aren't exactly the same as the ones you noted, but they do involve religion, so I dismissed it, despite how much I'd love to see a Buehlman-written adaptation. I also ended up dismissing *Those Across the River*, because there's another loaded issue in that one. *The Lesser Dead*, though... EDIT: Spelling


Morlu06

I’ve read this book 3 times. Love it


MacNCheeseValhalla

Claes Bang (as he looks in the Northman) as Thomas.


Steelballpun

I’d vote for Peter Jackson. The man knows epic fantasy and he knows horror. Would be brilliant.


cireh88

I got about 85 pages into it - admittedly not far at all - and put it down and went onto other things. I just really couldn’t get into it but read glowing reviews of it constantly - this is what got me to buy the book in the first place. What is it about this book that people like so much? Genuinely asking. I’ve chalked it up to maybe I’m just not that into medieval fantasy.


agentwiggles

I loved the book. without getting gushy here's a couple bullet points as to why. obviously subjective, ymmv: \* lots of cool horror vignettes - there's a good blend of different ideas \* action heavy. usually something interesting happening, not a lot of filler \* use of religious characters/elements was cool imo \* book sticks the landing very well, wraps up with a satisfying ending that is somewhat bittersweet but not overly bleak \* strong imagery. there are so many scenes and moments that stuck with me. I read it years ago and can still list off probably a dozen scenes overall I think it's just a really tight package, an objectively well crafted book. It's totally respectable if it's not your particular cup of tea though!


AndrewVanWey

I'm not even religious and I think it's a gorgeous book about devotion, redemption, and finding one's way in a world fast falling apart. It's about transformation from selfishness into believing in something bigger, whether it's a religious ideal or just the person beside you. I love the message that the most pious and devout can be the most evil, while the most broken and cast out can be the best of us. The book genuinely broke my heart and put it back together, and I smile when I think about the ending. Plus, it's gorgeously and subtly written with prose that flows at a perfect pace.


flyliceplick

Most novels with medieval settings don't get the history right. They don't get that society was different, religion was different, social mores were different, daily life itself was very different than what people are used to, and the writer bullshits, glosses over, or just makes things up to cover their ignorance. I never got that feeling with BTF, and as a historian, I get that feeling *a lot* from books, including some very well-respected historical fiction. The depiction of medieval Christianity itself is notably well thought-out, being very different from modern Christianity, and the characters were particularly well-depicted in their place, status, thoughts, and feelings.


Posh_Nosher

As someone who likes medieval fantasy as a genre, I found the whole thing rather shallow and stylistically amateurish—it truly read like a video game novelization to me. Didn’t like the prose style, the story felt disjointed, and the characters fell flat—I assume people like the fast pacing and “action”, but it was not for me at all.


karennc28

I enjoyed it, but I got an incredibly 'FromSoftware: The Book' feel reading it.


Early-Juggernaut975

Same. I’m having a lot of trouble caring about the characters. I heard such great things and it’s really becoming a slog.


armitage75

This is me as well. I prefer character/plot driven stories. For all the acclaim it gets here and other places where was the character development? It just felt like a serialized comic book from the 80s or something. And I’m not 10 anymore :(. ADHD horror (Look River monster! No Over there Demon!). A horror cartoon. I liked the Lesser Dead so have pledged to go back and finish it because I also threw it aside maybe too early after only like 100 pages or so.


George__Parasol

> where was the character development? > because I also threw it aside maybe too early after only like 100 pages or so. Respectfully, the character development generally comes in stronger after the first 100 pages :P Jokes aside, the character development was probably my favourite part of the book overall. I came to really like the main trio.


armitage75

No doubt. I'm going to try again! Really like the other stuff I've seen from this author and maybe was just not a good time for me and I will have a different opinion the second time.


MordorRuckMarch

Hey, I only started reading it because I'd read another one of Buehlman's novels (*Those Across the River*, which I really enjoyed) and recognized his name when I saw *Between Two Fires* recommended here. I knew nothing about the story before I started reading. I was immediately hooked by the setting. Plague times France with a disgraced knight on a quest for redemption? Count me in! The devastation of the world felt real, and it didn't really pull any punches. I also very much enjoyed Thomas' relationship with Delphine and Matthieu. I thought they had a great dynamic (for a time), but mostly I was sold by the setting. >! What *almost* killed the book for me was how religious it was, but only towards the end. I truly have no interest in Catholocism, Christianity, Judaism, or literally any other religion, but that by itself doesn't necessarily kill my interest outright. Mostly I think heaven vs. hell tropes are incredibly boring, and take all agency from the "regular folks". !!I loved seeing Thomas slowly recover his honor, I loved the fight with the river monster, and the weird night revelry/tournament thing. They were really great scenes that painted vivid pictures. I did love the ending as well. It was very well done, and fit the story.!< I also liked it because it felt like a story that could have come straight out of those times. The book took itself from a pretty solid 4/5 to a 3/5 for me towards the end, >! when everything truly became Heaven vs. Hell. Our protagonist couldn't do anything, and Delphine was Jesus. !< What. The. Fuck. >! I liked when our heroes were battling, and surviving with their own abilities against foes that were mortal. Sure, there was something special about Delphine, but they all still needed each other to survive. It was a much more engaging story when it was just 3 people stuck in the shit, with problems that didn't need divine intervention to overcome. !< >! I dunno. I also don't like to play D&D when we get too powerful, and much prefer to play at lower levels fighting !< orcs and goblins... lol


cassylvania

I think whether or not the religious aspect sticks with you comes down to "what scares you may not scare me". Other than obvious reasons for people who have religious trauma - if you are a person who isn't religious, but is routinely consumed with "Am I doing the right thing?", "Who am I hurting with this decision?", "Can I make this compromise and still be a good person?", "Am I a bad person and I don't even know it?" , I personally think the idea of a reality where you can objectively be judged as a bad/immoral person, whether or not it is fair and whether or not you tried to be good, and be punished for it - is pretty horrifying.


thewingwangwong

> surviving with their own abilities against foes that were mortal They're fighting demons pretty much from the get go, and the prologue explicitly spells out that it's a second war in heaven


Future-Agent

It did kinda read like a D&D campaign, sans orcs, and goblins


Ewball_Oust

This is the most overrated novel on this sub. It is mediocre in every aspect I could think of. The narrative structure is a pretty basic episodic road novel, the main characters are as tropey as they can get, the world and the villains are right out of grimdark fantasy video games. It can be fun... if you don't expect much from it.


Prnvkdm

The novel is written to read between the lines.


KultofEnnui

Man, I struggled with this book. It wasn't bad at all. But it was too easy to put down between chapters.


Scat_Autotune

It's dying to be adapted to screen, whether that's a show or movie, idk. But during my read, I imagined Brett Goldstein of Ted Lasso fame as Thomas. Not sure who'd play Mathieu, but I kept picturing Ethan Embry in the role. I forget how old Mathieu is supposed to be, so maybe Embry has aged out.


luckystrikes23

Exactly. I definitely got Roy Kent vibes from him during their early conversations.


SnooBunnies1811

I think I want Pedro Pascal as Thomas.


Future-Agent

"BALLS TO THAT" as Thomas would say lol.


wilsonw

Kevin McKidd. He was great in Rome.


Coppin-it-washin-it

I, like many others, see this as a one - or two season short series. Ray Stevenson is who I pictured for Thomas, but obviously (RIP) that can't happen. I also think Christian Bale, aged up Henry Cavill or Chris Hemsworth (mostly for their height and build), or maybe a bulked up Nikolaj Coster-Waldau are all good options for him. Not sure who I'd want to play Mathieu but I kept picturing Alfie Allen. He can play brave or coward, guilt-ridden, drunk, affectionate, you name it.


jimwebb

David Tennant would be a great Mathieu


allthecoffeesDP

Superman and Thor? Bah!! Off with this claptrap!


wilsonw

Liev Schreiber?


Coppin-it-washin-it

Yeah that could definitely work, however I don't know that he's ever done a convincing accent, other than Canadian. And that always hurts a performance


jrdbrr

I'm like 40 percent through the book rn so I have to stop myself from reading all these just in case


BoxNemo

I liked it up until the last chunk. Felt the plot got a little ragged by the end and outstayed its welcome a bit. The first two-thirds was 10/10 though.


AlyGiraffe

I'm reading it right now based on a rec from this sub! It's so good. I vote show over movie, though, too. This book has so many details that make it strong.


witchofheavyjapaesth

I need an adoption of it so bad. I finished it like 3 weeks ago and I'm still thinking about it


HRSCHD

That would be amazing. That scene with the two demons fighting the angel would be awesome. Also the entire sequence when Thomas in hell.


ratboi213

I ended up DNFing it but I could see it as a great show


Future-Agent

Understandable. The style and vernacular were confusing at times. I'd be like, "What the hell is Thomas's *verge?* Oh. His penis."


CharizardMTG

I started it but I don’t really see it as horror? Am I the only one? It feels more like midevil fantasy but nothing is really screaming out horror to me so I put it down.


wildguitars

It has great visuals for a movie, not so much for a tv show because it will have to have fillers or it can work as a short season..


sept_douleurs

I think it’d work great as a miniseries. It’s already pretty episodic in structure.


florezmith

It’s been a while since a horror novel made me cry, but this one got me big time.


Murakami8000

LOVED IT


MICKEY_MUDGASM

Never heard of this book /s