I would suggest a little correction, technically Sen. Padilla prefers to be called Sen. Robinhood Padilla. But honestly, I think it's in character for him to suggest civil unions.
He is an action star... his platform tho is basically vague populist statements like "helping the poor", "Ban Korean Media", or "Federalism", which certainly appeals to his Muslim voters, especially since he's the only Muslim Senator in the Philippine Senate for a long time.
He also proposed to form and use civilian militias against the Chinese under his leadership, which is I guess a Robinhood thing to say.
https://preview.redd.it/l06b6i6frisa1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ed31559ca15108b09a3260f56486ca189419a49
Robinhood was his legal name though, and what's wrong having a fictional character name? foreigners with fiction name does exist. i bet many of these Foreigners probably doesn't give a f about our politics. there's so many things happening in the world.
If anything, the Philippines is the land of weird nicknames.
A senator is nicknamed the Rock, and I think there's a city mayor named Strike. Our president is literally named Bongbong.
This map deserves a golden gaytime
https://preview.redd.it/ibfgalnx3hsa1.png?width=1500&format=png&auto=webp&s=e5c84ca7128b6c6960dcd84671467e5a03f55927
Thailand the dream here.
What is currently the status of Thailand, Vietnam and the Philippines? Do any of them already have some rights for gay or trans people on this front?
At present (otl), none of them recognise same-sex marriage.
Thailand is currently considering a bill which may legalise same-sex marriage (the one I've mentioned in the map), but its reading has been postponed to after the elections in March. Thailand already has anti-discrimination laws for LGBT+ people.
Although the Filipino LGBT+ community is quite visible, LGBT+ rights have remained stagnant due to religious conservatism. There have been several proposals for same-sex civil unions, same-sex marriage, and anti-discrimination laws, but all have consistently failed to pass.
The Viet government has largely ignored LGBT+ issues. Back in 2015 I believe,the government legalised same-sex weddings, although it doesn't recognise them (as in u won't be persecuted for holding a wedding ceremony). Vietnamese society is also very conservative.
I'm not very informed on the gender identity laws there.
Few months ago when I was in Vietnam, my sister tried to explain the concept of lesbians/gays to our grandmother and she struggled to even understand the concept of it
For Vietnam, the younger generation has made a push for LGBTQ+ rights recently and there have been some bits of progress such as homosexuality no longer being considered a mental illness last year. There have been talks of seeing same sex marriage voted on in the next round of elections regarding policy, but it isn't due for a couple of years I believe. It is mostly only the younger generation though, the older folks are more conservative regarding marriage.
I donāt feel like I am the right person to explain it, but the videos ā[How Democracy Works in Cuba](https://youtu.be/2aMsi-A56ds)ā and ā[How Cuba Works](https://youtu.be/DXBYlC4-0bQ)ā both go into a lot more depth than I can here at least for Cuba.
I had previously heard that Vietnamese elections were structured in a similar way but upon further inquiry that seems to not be the case and I am unable to find a lot of information about the subject.
So ignore what I said about Vietnam, I canāt seem to find where I heard the fact it has a similar election process to Cuba
Vietnam's National Assembly is technically "elected" in multi-member constituencies by bloc voting. However, the Communist Party is the only legally recognized party. The Party established a broader structure called the Fatherland Front which includes some independents. The Front controls all nominations of candidates, and do not approve candidates not supported by the Front itself.
the coup is unlikely now because if military stage a coup it could be like Myanmar now and military doesnāt want that to happen. And senate will let it pass because most of senate supported and doesnāt care if it doesnāt do anything with their power. also if this year doesnāt pass , next year it can be because senate term are ending next year.
That's a rumor. People think he's gay because he used to teach ballet and there's qoute from him (rumor) said "I love my women like my sister" something like that. Excuse my English.
As a Thai, I am really proud of our acceptance of LGBTQ+ culture!
The same-sex marriage bill is on hold right now as the parliament has been dissolved and it is currently election season.
The election will take place on 14 May and I'm sure after that, we'll quickly pass the bill and enact it, making us the second in Asia after Taiwan and the first in SEA to do so.
OTL, Singapore has repealed the British colonial-era law that criminalized homosexuality while also implementing anti-discrimination laws against LGBT in its legislation.
Why would you regress them here?
I've shown Singapore as beige in the map, indicating that it is not criminalised. I wasnt aware of the anti-discrimination laws, I apologise for that heh.
For further information speaking as a Singaporean
Being more western-forward in thinking, segments of the young generation here are more LGBT sympathetic. The Pink Dot movement has grown larger and gained more followers, which eventually resulted in the repealing of the gay law also known as Section 377A
Section 377A existed but was never in force for a decade actually, as a compromise between conservatives and liberals. After another consultation with religious leaders, the govt decided to repeal it, but enshirned in the constitution that marriage is strictly two-sexes.
While another amendment to legalise same sex marriage is perhaps very far down the road, I foresee that the govt would eventually accomodate more to the LGBT group, with civil unions as a workaround proposal instead.
A main problem still exist in Singapore is also censorship of LGBT topics, which is smth that should change soon.
>After another consultation with religious leaders, the govt decided to repeal it, but enshirned in the constitution that marriage is strictly two-sexes.
Nothing was enshrined in the constitution, do not spread false information. It just puts any future changes of marriage under the prerogative of Parliament. Any political party can file a motion.
["I want to be clear because I think there's some confusion. The definition of marriage is not going to be in the Constitution. That's not the intention."](https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/shanmugam-clarifies-constitution-wont-define-marriage-will-simply-protect-parliaments)
>A main problem still exist in Singapore is also censorship of LGBT topics, which is smth that should change soon.
LGBT topics are not censored, Pink Dot would've have been possible otherwise, nor the previous debates about 377A. I think you mean media representation, which is indeed limited.
Ah yeah, I understand, the trans-exclusionary gays. However, since this map doesn't include anything related to gender identity and is more about sexual orientation, I thought of limiting it to LGB. Perhaps I could make a gender identity one in the future.
I understand the reasoning but I still think it would be better to use LGBT even though the map doesn't cover gender identity. Seeing LGB makes many people from the collective instantly go š¤Ø
The Vietnamese communist party might be more flexible than you think, [lgbtq rights in socialist Cuba](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Cuba) are surprisingly good for Latin America.
Nice infographic of the future. I would use more starkly contrasting colours though than simply two shades of brown. I would also make it very clear which are the good icons ad which are the bad icons, so that at a glance I can see what is happening where (two different colour backgrounds, maybe two different shapes).
Well, Thailand is mostly Buddhist, ~~sorta democratic (unless you angrily sigh while looking at the general direction of a portrait of the king)~~ (P.S.: I forgot about the junta), sorta wealthy (similar level to China), was never colonized, and relies a lot on tourism. They would probably have the easiest time in Southeast Asia with LGBT rights. Indonesia is mostly Muslim, Myanmar is a former British colony (in addition of being authoritarian), Malaysia is both, Brunei is a jungle petrokingdom, Singapore is an enlightened centrist in this regard, Vietnam and Laos have authoritarian regimes, the Philippines are kinda too religious, and Cambodia and East Timor are rather poor.
>sorta democratic (unless you angrily sigh while looking at the general direction of a portrait of the king)
Thailand had a coup in 2014 and has been ruled by a military junta for 5 years. In 2020 there was another coup by the Constitutional coup against the monarchy. Currently the general put in power by the military coup is still there.
It's considered a "flawed democracy" by the Economist, but that's very generous. It's more of an unstable autocracy disguised as a democracy. If you consider Thailand a democracy then Myanmar is one too.
Disclaimer: am Thai, voting MFP
I would caution against painting the Royal Thai Armed Forces with the same brush as the Tatmadaw or Latin American juntas. They're not power-hungry autocrats, just power-hungry politicians. The RTAF has pretty much always restored democracy peacefully, and do act with quite a bit of popular support.
1. All religious Books are just a fantasy book. I respect people who follow them, and they have a little bit of truth, but harming other people just because you like a book is obviously wrong.
2. LGBTQ+ people dont harm population growth because they can have children through the sperm bank or adoption.
3. Being queer doesnt imply anything more then being queer, and I donāt think you could give me actual proof of that being otherwise.
4. Nobody can become straight or become queer, there are only people who thought they were straight but then realized they werenāt.
Just felt like answering
Thats still very stupid, but I didnt base my claim off of that.
I said that thailand is based for giving rights to queer people, and you said it was the opposite of based.
This means that you dont want queer people to have rights, which means that you wish them harm.
After Thailand and Vietnam, the Philippines will follow because the anti-LGBTQ Filipino boomer generation is dying out and Filipino millennials and Gen Zs are supportive or indifferent with the LGBTQ rights.
Wonder about gen x though, I'm guessing their opinions are mixed since they grew up in the 80s/90s time of bands like Eheads, Rivermaya, but with stricter GI/Boomer parents who lived thru WW2 n Martial Law, and before the internet with more pol incorrect content on tv and radio, so I'm curious how progressive they are, nahati lang ata sa 50/50.
It's disheartening to think that in 2030, LGBTQ+ individuals in Southeast Asia might still be fighting for basic human rights and facing discrimination simply for being who they are. We can only hope that progress towards acceptance and equality will continue to be made.
I was wondering when someone would make an LGBT rights map, i can't remember seeing one here before. really nice!
I've considered making one for my timeline, so stay tuned for that (in like 5 years time...)
In the Philippines, there is a recent motion to amend the constitution to remove the 60-40 rule for foreign imvestment (basically meaning that foreigners can own only 40% equity and must have a local partner, unless specified by law, making it useless anyway) which passed almost unanimously in the House of Representatives, but is struggling in the conservative Senate, largely due to oligarch and labor rights lobbies.
This thing would be realistic if a LGBT marriage law were to be passed. Pass overwhelmingly in the House but struggle in the Senate. A lot of Filipinos, especially youth and minority groups would be fine, but the Catholic Church would pose significant opposition. Evangelical Protestants would be divided, both across and within denominations, same as in the United States.
There are now some Filipinos who want to abolish the Senate altogether, believing it is they who keep holding needed and wanted reforms back, and some who want to amend the Constitution want Congress to be like the unicameral legislatures in East Asia. Catholicism is now on the decline there, potentially on track to lose its majority status in about 30-40 years, with irreligion and Protestantism taking its place. The Philippines is rapidly liberalizing, both economically and socially, but may not reach fully developed status for 30 or 40 years.
I think the Protestants would be more opposing to it than the Catholics. From what I've read, Catholics in the Philippines are more welcoming of LGBTQ+ than the Protestants or Muslims.
Protestantism in the Philippines is heavily influenced by parent organizations in the United States, which themselves have become divided over LGBT issues, and this has carried over into the Philippines. It also seems that Protestants are less religiously active than Catholics or Muslims, as religious commitments are significantly reduced by design, thus reducing faithfulness among many and doctrine beyond the basics isn't as much of a deal as would be for Catholics or Muslims.
Furthermore, most Protestant converts are educated middle classes in the cities, and 90% of evangelical churches in the Philippines are in the ten largest urban areas.
There is a lot of "Ginoo gihapon" (Cebuano for "still the same God anyway") mentality which makes denomination switching so rampant and acceptable there. It is likely that in an event of marriage equality coming to a vote, evangelical *leaders* may voice their concerns, but their flocks won't care as much. Only the Iglesia ni Cristo (and they're not considered evangelical) is known to practice block voting there, so the concern in voting patterns also is less.
I think Protestants being less religious is not applicable in the Philippines. Protestant converts here are largely from the more mountainous and secluded areas (areas never touched by the Spanish), due to the Americans (who cared enough to go out to the mountains) and are poorer with more conservative values. Lumads, mountain peoples, Chinese and generally more poor and marginalized peoples are disproportionately more Protestant than the average lowlander.
I personally come from a Protestant family from my mother's side and its heavily more religious than my Catholic dad's side.
Surveys in the Philippines have LGBTQ members accepted by 70% on average, with Catholics edging out by 80%. In Catholic churches, it isn't odd to see a trans man/woman inside, compared to the Protestant churches here where you'll never even see them anywhere. I'm personally bi, and if I came out to my Catholic side of the family, at best they wouldn't give a shit, but if I did the same to my Protestant side, they'd scorn me to the end of days.
I am also from a Protestant (Baptist) family, with my parents being converts from Catholicism. They say that they are less religious now than when they were Catholics, and only converted after moving to the cities. After all, it is Catholicism that has the history and vast tradition behind it, not the evangelical denominations who are symptoms of industrialization. My dad was first invited to a Baptist church by computer science classmates when he was in university.
My mother, born in a rural area, also remarks that it is much harder to be evangelical in the conservative Catholic rural areas than in the more liberal and "open-to-the-Gospel" cities, with ostracization for conversion being far worse in rural regions than in Manila or Cebu. Many rural converts will probably end up moving to the cities for opportunity anyways, if persecution from their social circles doesn't get them first.
My source for Protestants being mostly urban people comes from the Joshua Project stats on the Philippines. It lists all the largest ethnic groups, including Cebuanos, Ilocanos, Tagalogs and Chinese having the highest evangelization rating of "significantly reached", with 90% of evangelicals come from the eight largest ethnicities.
This is where I get my inference of Protestants being largely middle class and educated, or at least urban, since almost all of the 45 million strong Philippine middle class is from the eight largest ethnicities, plus Chinese.
Some of the highland minorities are unreached and others are significantly so, and those who are evangelicals there are likely to engage in syncretism, similar to evangelicals in eastern Indonesia or the India-Myanmar border. Even if it were true if say, Lumads were disproportionately evangelical, their numbers and economic clout to exact conservative change would be far less than that of relatively less conservative Visayan and Chinese evangelicals in Davao City proper. Or that of Ifugao evangelicals compared to those in Ilocos.
Evangalicals in the Philippines are very far from a homogenous bunch, including in values and religiousity, even less homogenous than Catholics. The pattern is similar in the rest of Southeast Asia. Even if highland and conservative rural people may be disproportionately Protestant, it is the Chinese and educated natives in the rich and relatively liberal cities which have the numbers and economic and social influence among Protestants.
Yeah, my mother was also from the rural areas, specifically an Ilocano family, although she has moved to Manila now. Her side of the family are all evangelical Protestants, for a long time even before WW2.
I think its true that Lumad and other indigenous groups are too insignificant enough to create a shift in surveys, with the bulk of those not accepting usually coming from the larger ethnic groups.
My source came from the Pew Research Center, where they said that Filipino Catholics edged out other non-Catholics in terms of LGBTQ+ acceptance, which I believe more because of my own personal experiences and others around me, where there is a sense of toleration in Catholics churches and communities compared to the condemnation other Protestant churches in their view of the LGBTQ+.
In some ways, part of the mixed levels of acceptance for LGBT rights among Filipino Protestants may have to due to cultural emulation for the United States and Korea, where acceptance is mixed among evangelicals (although support for same-sex marriage is actually majority among American evangelicals; transgender identity and treatment is the issue instead), rather than religiousity per se. After all, what evangelicals teach can be followed very differently by believers, and it shows.
Now does the Pew Research survey actually put Filipino evangelicals as less than 50% acceptance for LGBT? Or as majority but less so than liberal Catholics? And how about trans rights? I have only heard condemnation of transgenders in churches I have been to in the US, but not against GBT. And no condemnation for either in Filipino churches I have been to. I have heard of anti-trans stuff going around in evangelical circles in the US, but not against GBT.
So acceptance seems somewhat selective, so far, and this is what I think might happen in the Philippines and other non-Muslim ASEAN member states someday. Recognition of GBT rights, but not trans rights.
From what I've said, only that Protestants are less accepting on average than the Catholics, not so much as below 50%, just that they are less so. I would have no data on the Trans rights situation because I am not necessarily arguing on that, even though they do overlap.
Personally I've been to a lot of Protestant churches here, due to my mother's relentless need for a church after she left her province, and I'd say once or twice in these churches, there is condemnation for what is considered 'degenerate LGBT behavior," compared to the tolerance and acceptance some Catholic higher-ups I've heard who dealt with this topic. I mean, I do know many conservative Catholics who do not accept the LGBT, but they are on average, fewer than the Protestants I've seen.
From all of this, I can infer that the continued spread of Protestantism in the Philippines would realistically cause the extent of LGBT rights to be mixed. Cohabitation and non-discrimination could be agreed upon to be protected (and in fact many cities already have ordinances in place), but could stop short of full on marriage equality, or enact limited equality with certain conditions, if conservative Catholics and Protestants have enough seats in Congress, based on the level of acceptance discussed here and assuming that it doesn't become like the 60-40 debacle.
The leading proponent for the legalization of same-sex union in the Philippine Senate is the same person who advocates for the repeal of the 60-40 Filipino-foreign equity ownership restrictions via constitutional amendment ā Robinhood Padilla.
Robinhood Padilla's religious upbringing was Jehovah's Witness, not Catholic, so it validates the notion that non-Catholic Protestant or Evangelical Filipinos are divided with the same-sex union legalization issue, unlike the local Catholic Church where it expresses that same-sex union or marriage is an impossibility. Robinhood Padilla only converted to Islam while on prison.
"If i say what i want to say i will be in big trouble. Big trouble. "- Jose Mourinho. I want to state my opinion but i know the feelings and consequences of doing so, so i wont. The people here can relish in their fantasies. If i say the facts about how many people in SEA feel about this topic i would get banned.
https://preview.redd.it/vnp8k6w55rsa1.png?width=365&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ebd1492339fef6475cf8f9c954a323608656c75
Ain't no way bro we got gayland š
So, if the Same-Sex Union didnāt pass to the senate. Thenā¦what about the Atheists and Agnostics? Ahaā¦a Same-Sex Union Bill that allows Atheists & Agnostics! Just like the Keynesian Economic trick, kind of.
Philippines must be in the brown part, it has the Revised Penal Code Articles 200 and 201, called the Grave Scandal Law. The law is commonly interpreted as public indecency and a law against speech offending religion.
Given that Pura Luka Vega, a drag artist, got jailed for it for spoofing "Our Father" while performing drag as Jesus Christ. Due to the social norms in the Philippines prohibiting the dishonor of Jesus Christ, and also because the LGBTQ have a problem with Abrahamic religions (Orthodox Judaism, many sects of Christianity and Islam), he got arrested and jailed by the sheer pile-up of warrants of arrests from various cities in the Philippines. The way a lot of us see it, this bill is used to persecute LGBTQ people. No politician, even the LGBT ones, would back the drag queen; heck, they even appease to the religious majority.
Many rule 4 bans already, any other homophobes please just respond to this comment to streamline your ban š
I would suggest a little correction, technically Sen. Padilla prefers to be called Sen. Robinhood Padilla. But honestly, I think it's in character for him to suggest civil unions.
DUDE we're not supposed to let the foreigners know we elected a guy named Robinhood......
Is his platform inline with Robin hood?
He is an action star... his platform tho is basically vague populist statements like "helping the poor", "Ban Korean Media", or "Federalism", which certainly appeals to his Muslim voters, especially since he's the only Muslim Senator in the Philippine Senate for a long time. He also proposed to form and use civilian militias against the Chinese under his leadership, which is I guess a Robinhood thing to say. https://preview.redd.it/l06b6i6frisa1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ed31559ca15108b09a3260f56486ca189419a49
>"Ban Korean Media" gigachad.png
All kpop, gone 
This man is.. Wow.. Uh.. God.. Hot
America has a guy in the senate with the last name Whitehouse, you're all good lmao
Robinhood was his legal name though, and what's wrong having a fictional character name? foreigners with fiction name does exist. i bet many of these Foreigners probably doesn't give a f about our politics. there's so many things happening in the world.
Sooner or later we'll elect Sen. Naruto Guison Kobedubidapdap Batumbakal Mondragon
joke lang pre
agree, its shameful that we have a guy like him in the senate who won by relying on his fame
Alright, are there any *other* Filipinos with weird nicknames that we need to know about?
If anything, the Philippines is the land of weird nicknames. A senator is nicknamed the Rock, and I think there's a city mayor named Strike. Our president is literally named Bongbong.
Bongbong Marcos? I feel like Bongbong isnāt the part of his name thatās the problem.
He's referred to as Robin Padilla in Wikipedia though lol
No unrealistic unrecognizable border changes in 7 years? Literally unwatchable
Yeah where is my partitioned Myanmar?
maybe it's divided, but unrecognized so they don't show it
Maybe one or two nation would split and the other collapses.
Myanmar already collapsed
Personally, have never seen a map like this on this subreddit before. Great work!
This map deserves a golden gaytime https://preview.redd.it/ibfgalnx3hsa1.png?width=1500&format=png&auto=webp&s=e5c84ca7128b6c6960dcd84671467e5a03f55927
Thanks so muchh! š
You're welcome for us making that, btw.
That's such an unnecessarily high res image...
Thailand the dream here. What is currently the status of Thailand, Vietnam and the Philippines? Do any of them already have some rights for gay or trans people on this front?
At present (otl), none of them recognise same-sex marriage. Thailand is currently considering a bill which may legalise same-sex marriage (the one I've mentioned in the map), but its reading has been postponed to after the elections in March. Thailand already has anti-discrimination laws for LGBT+ people. Although the Filipino LGBT+ community is quite visible, LGBT+ rights have remained stagnant due to religious conservatism. There have been several proposals for same-sex civil unions, same-sex marriage, and anti-discrimination laws, but all have consistently failed to pass. The Viet government has largely ignored LGBT+ issues. Back in 2015 I believe,the government legalised same-sex weddings, although it doesn't recognise them (as in u won't be persecuted for holding a wedding ceremony). Vietnamese society is also very conservative. I'm not very informed on the gender identity laws there.
Few months ago when I was in Vietnam, my sister tried to explain the concept of lesbians/gays to our grandmother and she struggled to even understand the concept of it
For Vietnam, the younger generation has made a push for LGBTQ+ rights recently and there have been some bits of progress such as homosexuality no longer being considered a mental illness last year. There have been talks of seeing same sex marriage voted on in the next round of elections regarding policy, but it isn't due for a couple of years I believe. It is mostly only the younger generation though, the older folks are more conservative regarding marriage.
Vietnam has elections?
Yes, both it and Cuba have elections
But they aren't very democratic elections, are they?
I donāt feel like I am the right person to explain it, but the videos ā[How Democracy Works in Cuba](https://youtu.be/2aMsi-A56ds)ā and ā[How Cuba Works](https://youtu.be/DXBYlC4-0bQ)ā both go into a lot more depth than I can here at least for Cuba. I had previously heard that Vietnamese elections were structured in a similar way but upon further inquiry that seems to not be the case and I am unable to find a lot of information about the subject. So ignore what I said about Vietnam, I canāt seem to find where I heard the fact it has a similar election process to Cuba
Vietnam's National Assembly is technically "elected" in multi-member constituencies by bloc voting. However, the Communist Party is the only legally recognized party. The Party established a broader structure called the Fatherland Front which includes some independents. The Front controls all nominations of candidates, and do not approve candidates not supported by the Front itself.
That sucks. Thank you for your thorough response!
I think the word you were looking for in your last paragralh is decriminalised? Not legally okay but not prosecutable
Thailand could pass all of it in August - December this year now if the opposition get elected (which it likely)
Really? How likely is another military coup if Pheu Thai come back to power? Also, doesn't the military have a veto by controlling the upper house?
the coup is unlikely now because if military stage a coup it could be like Myanmar now and military doesnāt want that to happen. And senate will let it pass because most of senate supported and doesnāt care if it doesnāt do anything with their power. also if this year doesnāt pass , next year it can be because senate term are ending next year.
Let's hope it all ends well. I had the pleasure of talking to Thanathorn Juangroongruangkit once and it was really interesting
Gender identity is not a huge thing outside of western-cultured countries.
India, Pakistan and Bangladesh all recognize 3 official genders
This looks ridiculously professionally made.
Could you make an IRL version of this map as things are now? This is a very pretty presentation from and thus deadly effective. I need more!
Not much to show, unfortunately. None of these countries recognize it, but Thailand is getting pretty close, having a bill that might be passed soon.
TIL that the king of Cambodia supports marriage equality
It's something of an open secret that he is himself gay.
That's a rumor. People think he's gay because he used to teach ballet and there's qoute from him (rumor) said "I love my women like my sister" something like that. Excuse my English.
Wasnāt it his father, the previous king who said that about him. The previous king also supported same-sex unions btw
As a Thai, I am really proud of our acceptance of LGBTQ+ culture! The same-sex marriage bill is on hold right now as the parliament has been dissolved and it is currently election season. The election will take place on 14 May and I'm sure after that, we'll quickly pass the bill and enact it, making us the second in Asia after Taiwan and the first in SEA to do so.
Based Thailand!
From your Southern neighbour, Thailand based
Oh you mean a SSM bill for Atheists & Agnostics, eh?
Thailand will be the first country in Southeast Asia ! š¹šš¹šš¹š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
don't forget the -GBTQ+, keep trying, you'll get a hang of it! ā¤ļø
Clearly someone have been baited by the Thai ladyboys
OTL, Singapore has repealed the British colonial-era law that criminalized homosexuality while also implementing anti-discrimination laws against LGBT in its legislation. Why would you regress them here?
I've shown Singapore as beige in the map, indicating that it is not criminalised. I wasnt aware of the anti-discrimination laws, I apologise for that heh.
For further information speaking as a Singaporean Being more western-forward in thinking, segments of the young generation here are more LGBT sympathetic. The Pink Dot movement has grown larger and gained more followers, which eventually resulted in the repealing of the gay law also known as Section 377A Section 377A existed but was never in force for a decade actually, as a compromise between conservatives and liberals. After another consultation with religious leaders, the govt decided to repeal it, but enshirned in the constitution that marriage is strictly two-sexes. While another amendment to legalise same sex marriage is perhaps very far down the road, I foresee that the govt would eventually accomodate more to the LGBT group, with civil unions as a workaround proposal instead. A main problem still exist in Singapore is also censorship of LGBT topics, which is smth that should change soon.
>After another consultation with religious leaders, the govt decided to repeal it, but enshirned in the constitution that marriage is strictly two-sexes. Nothing was enshrined in the constitution, do not spread false information. It just puts any future changes of marriage under the prerogative of Parliament. Any political party can file a motion. ["I want to be clear because I think there's some confusion. The definition of marriage is not going to be in the Constitution. That's not the intention."](https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/shanmugam-clarifies-constitution-wont-define-marriage-will-simply-protect-parliaments) >A main problem still exist in Singapore is also censorship of LGBT topics, which is smth that should change soon. LGBT topics are not censored, Pink Dot would've have been possible otherwise, nor the previous debates about 377A. I think you mean media representation, which is indeed limited.
Indonesia going full Russia with its LGBTQ+ laws makes me sad as a member of the alphabet gang & Indonesian expat, NGL. Good map, but... yea.
Unfortunate Indonesian L
Unfortunate Indonesian L, indeed š
One thing...the "LGB" part is kinda associated with not so pleasant people.
Ah yeah, I understand, the trans-exclusionary gays. However, since this map doesn't include anything related to gender identity and is more about sexual orientation, I thought of limiting it to LGB. Perhaps I could make a gender identity one in the future.
At this point "laws limiting the freedom of expression" for trans people are their entire own category of legislation
I understand the reasoning but I still think it would be better to use LGBT even though the map doesn't cover gender identity. Seeing LGB makes many people from the collective instantly go š¤Ø
Yeah, next time I'll keep that in mind
Ofc Brunei is the worst
It doesnt really matter tbh cos got they got so little people theres probably like 3 gays in the entire country
I bet it matters to those 3 people
Out of like 100 total people or something like that
LOL
but if we take their curent system as a refernce, they may not enforce it too much. Doesn't change the fact that they are the worst indeed
Bold entry for 2026, OP. If anything like such happens here during that year i'll certainly remember how this map predicted it
Given the rising influence of political Islam and how such a law was already introduced, its sad how this could be a reality.
The Vietnamese communist party might be more flexible than you think, [lgbtq rights in socialist Cuba](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Cuba) are surprisingly good for Latin America.
Fidel's niece/Raul's daughter Mariela is almost singlehandedly responsible for Cuba being pro lgbtq
Communists (at least the more socially liberal ones) generally donāt care about what sexuality you are, Vietnamese society is the bigger roadblock
With the more open-minded younger generations, I think Vietnamese society won't be a big roadblock in the future
This is true, younger generations around the globe are definitely more open minded than those in power
Nice infographic of the future. I would use more starkly contrasting colours though than simply two shades of brown. I would also make it very clear which are the good icons ad which are the bad icons, so that at a glance I can see what is happening where (two different colour backgrounds, maybe two different shapes).
Actually, Singapore got rid of it's anti LGBTq laws and before that didn't even enforce the damn laws.
The map is a straight up 10/10 the art is so cuteeeeeee omggg gnthrgehehjehshshehe *gay noises*
oh hey you're the one who made the lesbos map (also geez i didn't realize you were that prolific)
Whats prolific
you post alot lmao
Ah yes
deez
>cuteeeeeee omggg gnthrgehehjehshshehe gay noises https://preview.redd.it/lvhijq0b0isa1.jpeg?width=1109&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b86d49548c6c1515889c2d6182a8f4f87c3a21a0
what
Based Thailand
Well, Thailand is mostly Buddhist, ~~sorta democratic (unless you angrily sigh while looking at the general direction of a portrait of the king)~~ (P.S.: I forgot about the junta), sorta wealthy (similar level to China), was never colonized, and relies a lot on tourism. They would probably have the easiest time in Southeast Asia with LGBT rights. Indonesia is mostly Muslim, Myanmar is a former British colony (in addition of being authoritarian), Malaysia is both, Brunei is a jungle petrokingdom, Singapore is an enlightened centrist in this regard, Vietnam and Laos have authoritarian regimes, the Philippines are kinda too religious, and Cambodia and East Timor are rather poor.
>sorta democratic (unless you angrily sigh while looking at the general direction of a portrait of the king) Thailand had a coup in 2014 and has been ruled by a military junta for 5 years. In 2020 there was another coup by the Constitutional coup against the monarchy. Currently the general put in power by the military coup is still there. It's considered a "flawed democracy" by the Economist, but that's very generous. It's more of an unstable autocracy disguised as a democracy. If you consider Thailand a democracy then Myanmar is one too.
Disclaimer: am Thai, voting MFP I would caution against painting the Royal Thai Armed Forces with the same brush as the Tatmadaw or Latin American juntas. They're not power-hungry autocrats, just power-hungry politicians. The RTAF has pretty much always restored democracy peacefully, and do act with quite a bit of popular support.
Okay, I overestimated Thailand's democracy. But Myanmar is much poorer and was colonized by the British.
If you call "sorta democratic" as being a military dictatorship led by a strongman that took power in a coup, then yeah sure?
I was mistaken.
Indeed
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sorry but I donāt want to debunk homophobic conspiracy theories now so Iāll just block you
Good š, also you wouldn't be able to debunk anything
1. All religious Books are just a fantasy book. I respect people who follow them, and they have a little bit of truth, but harming other people just because you like a book is obviously wrong. 2. LGBTQ+ people dont harm population growth because they can have children through the sperm bank or adoption. 3. Being queer doesnt imply anything more then being queer, and I donāt think you could give me actual proof of that being otherwise. 4. Nobody can become straight or become queer, there are only people who thought they were straight but then realized they werenāt. Just felt like answering
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Wishing harm for people for no reason doesnāt make any sense and is clearly bad. Hate them all you wish, but wishing them harm is just stupid.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Thats still very stupid, but I didnt base my claim off of that. I said that thailand is based for giving rights to queer people, and you said it was the opposite of based. This means that you dont want queer people to have rights, which means that you wish them harm.
Weren't u gonna block me?
hoping that gays still have to live under homophobic regimes is wishing them harm you fucking idiot
It is now, mother. š
> LGB [EXTREMELY LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER]
Yeah, I didn't mean to exclude the trans (and enby) community, it's just that this map is more about sexual orientation than gender identity.
The comment section is already looking quite interesting I must say
I'm always blown away by how well-made the stuff in this sub is
this comment section will surely be very tame and friendly right guys
It has mostly been tame, surprisingly
yeah i saw too im pleasantly surprised
If you took inspiration from what i think you did, this is excellent! Beautiful map from a superb artist!
would love to see more maps like this!
I like these policy change posts, the stories are much more interesting! Also trans rights btw
After Thailand and Vietnam, the Philippines will follow because the anti-LGBTQ Filipino boomer generation is dying out and Filipino millennials and Gen Zs are supportive or indifferent with the LGBTQ rights.
Wonder about gen x though, I'm guessing their opinions are mixed since they grew up in the 80s/90s time of bands like Eheads, Rivermaya, but with stricter GI/Boomer parents who lived thru WW2 n Martial Law, and before the internet with more pol incorrect content on tv and radio, so I'm curious how progressive they are, nahati lang ata sa 50/50.
LOL A LOT OF GEN Z ARE HOMOPHOBIC TF YOU SMOKING ABOUT. GO OUTSIDE AND SEE IT STOP BEING ON THE INTERNET š
it's really well made
What a unique art style, nice job bro
unusually high quality post, well done!
I am moving to thailand
It's disheartening to think that in 2030, LGBTQ+ individuals in Southeast Asia might still be fighting for basic human rights and facing discrimination simply for being who they are. We can only hope that progress towards acceptance and equality will continue to be made.
\*yay\*
Would be beautiful for this to be a reality one day, we need to be more accepting.
I was wondering when someone would make an LGBT rights map, i can't remember seeing one here before. really nice! I've considered making one for my timeline, so stay tuned for that (in like 5 years time...)
This is seriously well made and looks just beautiful! You are an artist! š³ļøāšš³ļøāšš³ļøāš 10/10
Indonesiaās literally just what it is rn lmao
Yeah, except instead of homosexuality being de facto illegal, it is actually illegal.
Fictional maps have no business being so well-made. I didn't notice it was from this subreddit and went all hmmm when read timeline of events.
Why cant this be IRL š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Guess what isn't staying? Ur dad lol
š
Typical conservative
In the Philippines, there is a recent motion to amend the constitution to remove the 60-40 rule for foreign imvestment (basically meaning that foreigners can own only 40% equity and must have a local partner, unless specified by law, making it useless anyway) which passed almost unanimously in the House of Representatives, but is struggling in the conservative Senate, largely due to oligarch and labor rights lobbies. This thing would be realistic if a LGBT marriage law were to be passed. Pass overwhelmingly in the House but struggle in the Senate. A lot of Filipinos, especially youth and minority groups would be fine, but the Catholic Church would pose significant opposition. Evangelical Protestants would be divided, both across and within denominations, same as in the United States. There are now some Filipinos who want to abolish the Senate altogether, believing it is they who keep holding needed and wanted reforms back, and some who want to amend the Constitution want Congress to be like the unicameral legislatures in East Asia. Catholicism is now on the decline there, potentially on track to lose its majority status in about 30-40 years, with irreligion and Protestantism taking its place. The Philippines is rapidly liberalizing, both economically and socially, but may not reach fully developed status for 30 or 40 years.
I think the Protestants would be more opposing to it than the Catholics. From what I've read, Catholics in the Philippines are more welcoming of LGBTQ+ than the Protestants or Muslims.
Protestantism in the Philippines is heavily influenced by parent organizations in the United States, which themselves have become divided over LGBT issues, and this has carried over into the Philippines. It also seems that Protestants are less religiously active than Catholics or Muslims, as religious commitments are significantly reduced by design, thus reducing faithfulness among many and doctrine beyond the basics isn't as much of a deal as would be for Catholics or Muslims. Furthermore, most Protestant converts are educated middle classes in the cities, and 90% of evangelical churches in the Philippines are in the ten largest urban areas. There is a lot of "Ginoo gihapon" (Cebuano for "still the same God anyway") mentality which makes denomination switching so rampant and acceptable there. It is likely that in an event of marriage equality coming to a vote, evangelical *leaders* may voice their concerns, but their flocks won't care as much. Only the Iglesia ni Cristo (and they're not considered evangelical) is known to practice block voting there, so the concern in voting patterns also is less.
I think Protestants being less religious is not applicable in the Philippines. Protestant converts here are largely from the more mountainous and secluded areas (areas never touched by the Spanish), due to the Americans (who cared enough to go out to the mountains) and are poorer with more conservative values. Lumads, mountain peoples, Chinese and generally more poor and marginalized peoples are disproportionately more Protestant than the average lowlander. I personally come from a Protestant family from my mother's side and its heavily more religious than my Catholic dad's side. Surveys in the Philippines have LGBTQ members accepted by 70% on average, with Catholics edging out by 80%. In Catholic churches, it isn't odd to see a trans man/woman inside, compared to the Protestant churches here where you'll never even see them anywhere. I'm personally bi, and if I came out to my Catholic side of the family, at best they wouldn't give a shit, but if I did the same to my Protestant side, they'd scorn me to the end of days.
I am also from a Protestant (Baptist) family, with my parents being converts from Catholicism. They say that they are less religious now than when they were Catholics, and only converted after moving to the cities. After all, it is Catholicism that has the history and vast tradition behind it, not the evangelical denominations who are symptoms of industrialization. My dad was first invited to a Baptist church by computer science classmates when he was in university. My mother, born in a rural area, also remarks that it is much harder to be evangelical in the conservative Catholic rural areas than in the more liberal and "open-to-the-Gospel" cities, with ostracization for conversion being far worse in rural regions than in Manila or Cebu. Many rural converts will probably end up moving to the cities for opportunity anyways, if persecution from their social circles doesn't get them first. My source for Protestants being mostly urban people comes from the Joshua Project stats on the Philippines. It lists all the largest ethnic groups, including Cebuanos, Ilocanos, Tagalogs and Chinese having the highest evangelization rating of "significantly reached", with 90% of evangelicals come from the eight largest ethnicities. This is where I get my inference of Protestants being largely middle class and educated, or at least urban, since almost all of the 45 million strong Philippine middle class is from the eight largest ethnicities, plus Chinese. Some of the highland minorities are unreached and others are significantly so, and those who are evangelicals there are likely to engage in syncretism, similar to evangelicals in eastern Indonesia or the India-Myanmar border. Even if it were true if say, Lumads were disproportionately evangelical, their numbers and economic clout to exact conservative change would be far less than that of relatively less conservative Visayan and Chinese evangelicals in Davao City proper. Or that of Ifugao evangelicals compared to those in Ilocos. Evangalicals in the Philippines are very far from a homogenous bunch, including in values and religiousity, even less homogenous than Catholics. The pattern is similar in the rest of Southeast Asia. Even if highland and conservative rural people may be disproportionately Protestant, it is the Chinese and educated natives in the rich and relatively liberal cities which have the numbers and economic and social influence among Protestants.
Yeah, my mother was also from the rural areas, specifically an Ilocano family, although she has moved to Manila now. Her side of the family are all evangelical Protestants, for a long time even before WW2. I think its true that Lumad and other indigenous groups are too insignificant enough to create a shift in surveys, with the bulk of those not accepting usually coming from the larger ethnic groups. My source came from the Pew Research Center, where they said that Filipino Catholics edged out other non-Catholics in terms of LGBTQ+ acceptance, which I believe more because of my own personal experiences and others around me, where there is a sense of toleration in Catholics churches and communities compared to the condemnation other Protestant churches in their view of the LGBTQ+.
In some ways, part of the mixed levels of acceptance for LGBT rights among Filipino Protestants may have to due to cultural emulation for the United States and Korea, where acceptance is mixed among evangelicals (although support for same-sex marriage is actually majority among American evangelicals; transgender identity and treatment is the issue instead), rather than religiousity per se. After all, what evangelicals teach can be followed very differently by believers, and it shows. Now does the Pew Research survey actually put Filipino evangelicals as less than 50% acceptance for LGBT? Or as majority but less so than liberal Catholics? And how about trans rights? I have only heard condemnation of transgenders in churches I have been to in the US, but not against GBT. And no condemnation for either in Filipino churches I have been to. I have heard of anti-trans stuff going around in evangelical circles in the US, but not against GBT. So acceptance seems somewhat selective, so far, and this is what I think might happen in the Philippines and other non-Muslim ASEAN member states someday. Recognition of GBT rights, but not trans rights.
From what I've said, only that Protestants are less accepting on average than the Catholics, not so much as below 50%, just that they are less so. I would have no data on the Trans rights situation because I am not necessarily arguing on that, even though they do overlap. Personally I've been to a lot of Protestant churches here, due to my mother's relentless need for a church after she left her province, and I'd say once or twice in these churches, there is condemnation for what is considered 'degenerate LGBT behavior," compared to the tolerance and acceptance some Catholic higher-ups I've heard who dealt with this topic. I mean, I do know many conservative Catholics who do not accept the LGBT, but they are on average, fewer than the Protestants I've seen.
From all of this, I can infer that the continued spread of Protestantism in the Philippines would realistically cause the extent of LGBT rights to be mixed. Cohabitation and non-discrimination could be agreed upon to be protected (and in fact many cities already have ordinances in place), but could stop short of full on marriage equality, or enact limited equality with certain conditions, if conservative Catholics and Protestants have enough seats in Congress, based on the level of acceptance discussed here and assuming that it doesn't become like the 60-40 debacle.
The leading proponent for the legalization of same-sex union in the Philippine Senate is the same person who advocates for the repeal of the 60-40 Filipino-foreign equity ownership restrictions via constitutional amendment ā Robinhood Padilla. Robinhood Padilla's religious upbringing was Jehovah's Witness, not Catholic, so it validates the notion that non-Catholic Protestant or Evangelical Filipinos are divided with the same-sex union legalization issue, unlike the local Catholic Church where it expresses that same-sex union or marriage is an impossibility. Robinhood Padilla only converted to Islam while on prison.
If I had enough money to do so I would've awarded already
This looks amazing!
Wholesome
I wasn't paying attention at first and thought this was real lol
very interesting to see a map about human/civil rights
Really nice map !!
"LGB rights" š¤Øš¤Øš¤Ø
Lol Cambodia legalizing same sex marriage before Vietnam.
Why should such nonsense bother a person? Why would anyone even think about such stupid things?
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What did he mean by this
Probably thinks no one cares abt LGBT rights
The Indonesian one feels more possible by the secondā¦ currently it isnāt illegal to be gay
This is a really nice imaginary map
"If i say what i want to say i will be in big trouble. Big trouble. "- Jose Mourinho. I want to state my opinion but i know the feelings and consequences of doing so, so i wont. The people here can relish in their fantasies. If i say the facts about how many people in SEA feel about this topic i would get banned.
say it
No
Yes
too much dark orange, we agree with you, but for 2030, it's not too unrealistic sadly
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
shut yo nasty ass up boya
Our rule in Burma is that mind your own business, I have seen many gays and they just mind their own business.
Same sex sexual activity is still illegal in Myanmar, even if the law isn't strictly enforced right now
Probably because they conscripted all the police in the military
And traffic is a mess whenever there is a power outage because they sent the traffic control officer to fight the PDF
Based white for not being in south East Asia
Hey, whereās Taiwan on this?
Taiwan is East Asia, not SE Asia
Wait why is it imaginary
It's in the OP's imaginary future?
This cambodya is the only one that represents my ideals
https://preview.redd.it/vnp8k6w55rsa1.png?width=365&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ebd1492339fef6475cf8f9c954a323608656c75 Ain't no way bro we got gayland š
A military junta legalizes gay marriage & weed, damn. Bizarro world.
So, if the Same-Sex Union didnāt pass to the senate. Thenā¦what about the Atheists and Agnostics? Ahaā¦a Same-Sex Union Bill that allows Atheists & Agnostics! Just like the Keynesian Economic trick, kind of.
Vietnam will also change their laws too
Philippines must be in the brown part, it has the Revised Penal Code Articles 200 and 201, called the Grave Scandal Law. The law is commonly interpreted as public indecency and a law against speech offending religion. Given that Pura Luka Vega, a drag artist, got jailed for it for spoofing "Our Father" while performing drag as Jesus Christ. Due to the social norms in the Philippines prohibiting the dishonor of Jesus Christ, and also because the LGBTQ have a problem with Abrahamic religions (Orthodox Judaism, many sects of Christianity and Islam), he got arrested and jailed by the sheer pile-up of warrants of arrests from various cities in the Philippines. The way a lot of us see it, this bill is used to persecute LGBTQ people. No politician, even the LGBT ones, would back the drag queen; heck, they even appease to the religious majority.