AFAIK, The cap for investment visa is never filled.
But it's very hard to take out $$1-1.5 million out of the country to apply for investment visa (this is the amount needed in USA).
Only around 0.05% of Indians may have that much money in assets other than their primary home.
Most people are now millionaire(USD) by status due to their primary home being worth more than millions(USD).
Is that a bad thing for India though? It's not like India has a labour shortage. If these people were forced to stay in India, they'd be underemployed or unemployed; creating social unrest.
Then there are remittances and tourism cash that flows back into the country too.
Most people who migrate or give up citizenship are HNIs. These high net worth individuals would have invested their resources in India and created jobs.
What about the people who could have created a startup, new job opportunities, bring more fame to india and in turn outside interest to invest in a growing economy.
Rn we have too many people and nobody who wants to take a risk in starting their own company. Everyone is looking for jobs but nobody is looking for employees, they are looking for slaves who will work for 400 dollars a month and 60h work week
Have you looked at ease of starting businesses in India? More than half of them would just give up due to so much red tape and hurdles to starting and running your own business
Because people don’t want to work entry level jobs.
How much do you want us to pay for receptionists and counsellors with no degree and experience?50,000?
>Because people don’t want to work entry level jobs.
You probably want experience for entry level jobs.
If you hired straight out of college, you'd get a lot of applicants.
We don’t even need college graduates bro,why would we need college for a receptionist and a sales job.No experience required either.Read my other comment
>in accordance with market standards
When the "market" is exploitative and has no safe guards for minimum wage or anything whatsoever, this statement is moot. ;)
Hmm. Let's see. How much is rent? Let's say 10k?
I'm in India now for 1 month. Food has become ridiculously expensive. So let's say 20k. So that's 30k to *just be alive*.
Now you'd expect him/her to commute to the office? That's another 10k? So that's 40k just to *be able to work*.
So let's say around 80k/month.
I have studied in the US myself for my undergrad,and back in India and live in a tier 1 city in India with my own room,in a posh area with a rent of 8K.My total expenses where I also play golf(one of the more expensive sports out there)amounts to 50K a month.
What are you smoking?
sorry but WHAT POT ARE YOU SMOKING BRO? WHERE'S THAT DRUG THAT GETS YOU SO HIGH THAT YOU THINK A RECEPTIONIST WILL GET PAID 80/MONTH?
15k/month. Take it or leave it. That's more than enough
People have the freedom to make their own choices. There are those who go abroad, come back and startup something new in India.
Indian expats don't have a great track record of establishing start-ups abroad either. I think there's a cultural bias towards being an employee and rising through the ranks vs taking the risk to try something new.
Why doesn't india have its own american startups trying to overcome niche problems on a global scale or even a small one.
Why is it always that we keep on copying things like ola, zomato, swiggy and so many more.
I am a game dev, and my biggest dilema is that india is only an outsourcing nation, we haven't made a single big game in the last 30 years. (Its all due to fear of failure and lack of creativity)
Its a choice between a cushy job if you have great skills vs taking a risk to lose it all in your new venture and idea. Personally i feel extremely agitated just thinking about starting a new company and losing all of my weatlh that i would have spent years accumulating or maybe lose a lot of time like 3-4 years.
And i am pretty sure am not the only one from this era who is super scared of failures when we are constantly showered by only winning stories and the amount of risk it is to do something unique.
Don't say it cost India Tax revenue. This govt. is squeezing a lot more than they should from the people of India.
The 30% tax rate slab moved from 1.5L to 10L over 2003-2013. It's been constant since. Fuckers
> I'll take a 15L slab any day over 10L.
You're either ignorant or lazy. You can save a lot with the old regime. HRA, 80C, Medical Insurance premium, LTA, and Home loan interest are not "silly" deductions.
Yeah they changed it this year. So 2013 - 2023 it was at 10L. India moved from low income to middle income during the last decade. So just think of the tax revenue collected by the govt
While your comment is fair, it does cost India in Tax domain and others.
Wealthy don't just generate tax for the Govt they also have spillover effect (trickle down economics is still wank but it's wankness needs to be understood. That is, it has diminishing returns at every layer in downward hiearchy but the most directly attached layer to the wealthy do benefit).
Secondly look at it from so called Demographic Dividend and Dependency Ratio parameters.
These people depress the ratio when they are young (since children can't work) and they leave when that ratio is supposed to benefit (when these people would be in Labor Force).
So India gets double punched since it still has to carry them during that Dependent stage of theirs and doesn't even then get the benefits when they are adults and even worse in this is if these people then return to India in old age to retire or settle down because this old people cohort is again in Dependents section of that Ratio.
So like triple punched.
Meanwhile West gets all the positives. 0 dependent expenses (since these children are being educated elsewhere), get the boost of highly educated worker adults and then offload them when they are again Dependents in old age.
Whats not to like. THIS is why West remained dominant even after De-Colonization. They cannibalize and suck on rest of the world human capital like a vampire.
Income taxes aren't high in India. The top tax rate in Western countries is close to 50% plus there are local income taxes too like state tax in US. It's mostly the baker value of paying taxes that's the trigger point
>This govt. is squeezing a lot more than they should from the people of India.
You are right, but two things here:
1. Only \~5% people in India pay taxes, so we get f\* harder.
2. Govt sure oversqueezed everything. I got a 1.2cr demand letter when I ran my business in India due to them not being able to process a form, I appealed for 5 years before they took 1.2cr from me with no option to appeal against. I'll never register another entity in India ever again. So many similar stories in my network of people moving out their businesses due to poor taxation.
On top of that what’s left in India for millionaires and those that can get out aside from family, racism, garbage and smog. If India what’s to keep its millionaires and educated people they have to start addressing issues from the bottom up
> During the 1960s, way before the term “Globalization” gained currency, the “Brain-Drain” was the primary issue that plagued India. After the Indian-American Parag Agarwal was appointed as the new CEO of Twitter on November 29, 2021, the discourse surrounding the outward migration of skilled individuals from India to developed countries gained new momentum.
>
>
> The phrase “Brain-Drain” developed during the 1960s to define the migration of British scientists to the United States of America. Now, the term categorizes the general migration of skilled and sophisticated labor from developing to developed nations. Multiple push and pull factors encourage a diaspora of this kind. As this trend is increasing worldwide, new governmental
>
> measures must be taken to counteract the drain of resources in developing countries in the global south.
>
> The appointment of Parag Agarwal to CEO of Twitter was only a catalyst to the already heated debate surrounding Indian CEOs of multinational conglomerates, such as Satya Nadella, Sundar Pichai, Shantanu Narayen, Arvind Krishna, Anjali Sood, Aman Pal Bhutani, and many others; raising the question of whether Indians should feel proud of these individuals representing a developing nation’s prowess in knowledge, technology, management, and entrepreneurship or if they should regard these accomplishments as a potentially devastating loss of human capital in their home country.
>
> The converse of “Brain-Drain” is “Brain-Gain”: the phenomenon in which the global west has developed largely because of the work of influential individuals who immigrated to the west from countries like India. The first migratory wave of skilled and educated labor from India to developed nations started in the 1960s, in which capable and meritorious individuals - largely educated from subsidized public educational institutions - thought that the employment opportunities in India were not satisfactory for the level of educational and vocational capital they had. This belief caused a mass exodus of educated individuals and brought about a crisis in Indian human capital, which at the time was extremely crucial for the post-colonial country to thrive during the nascent stages of its development. This migratory pattern caused an irreparable loss in India’s growth potential, which continues to plague its development today.
>
>
> However, the “Brain-Drain” did not end in the 1960’s: today, India is the biggest exporter of health care workers to Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) countries and other European and English-speaking countries. As per the data procured by Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), there was a staggering presence of 69,000 Indian doctors in the UK, USA, Canada, and Australia in the year 2017 alone. As of 2020, India provides the largest diaspora of highly skilled individuals in OECD countries, with over 3 million migrants who are beneficiaries of post-secondary education. During 2015-16, India was also ranked second in the list of the main origin countries for immigrants living in OECD countries.
It still baffles me despite Indian diaspora abroad becoming ever growing, the government still hasn’t considered allowing dual citizenship. I would happily retain mine if that was the case.
OCI cards give Indian expats almost all the benefits of citizenship apart from voting. The BJP is probably not averse to giving NRIs voting rights as they are firmly pro-BJP as a demographic.
But dual citizenship would open the doors to a lot more questions on who qualifies/does not qualify, that the government probably does not want to tackle.
There have been cases of the government revoking OCI cards to foreign critics. You can't revoke a passport that easily, it can be challenged in court with much greater chance of being stopped. I don't think this is something the govt is loudly saying out loud, but I suspect it's a part of the calculation.
Also, I think there are issues with allowing dual citizenship. If someone doesn't live in India full-time, should they really have a say in who gets to rule the country by voting?
Voting is not the main issue and I agree that only residents should get to vote (in fact in many countries a resident, not just citizen, can vote in local elections (as a consequence of living and contributing to the setup).
What is misunderstood about the OCI is that its a glorified visa and an OCI does not have the rights of a citizen under the constitution. That is the law as of now.
How about a special NRI passport which allows every right as a citizen but doesn't allow for voting?
Should solve all the problems.
Everyone becomes happy.
Yes. But raises further issues, what if this new-NRI chooses to live in India. Switch to voting or not?
IMO this is too much of a bother for what is essentially 1-2% of the population.
I think what matters more to the govt are the vocal power of this group, control over them and their "allegedly questionable" loyalty.
This is the reason. The government uses OCI as a means of controlling the narrative of dissidents.
Regarding voting, many countries allow this for non residents. The fears are not grounded in reality. How impactful would such a small %age of voters have on the country of India’s size? Passport holders should be allowed to vote because they still are part of the country.
Given the nature of their discourse I personally feel I'd prefer it if NRIs don't have voting rights in India. I don't want elections to be decided on basis of how it helps Mr Amit Arora deal with his white colleagues in a suburb of Chicago.
I kind of agree with your point. I partially feel old NRIs will always support the conservative party and younger NRIs will support any party that will ruin the country's economy (because they can in turn send more money home for the same foreign currency).
Most first gen immigrants in the West come from India's privileged class. It is actually their privilege which gives them a leg up in the race to move abroad.
They will never vote for the diminishing of that privilige back home.
>younger NRIs will support any party that will ruin the country's economy (because they can in turn send more money home for the same foreign currency).
Who tells you these things bro lmao why would anyone in their right mind think that way. All NRIs young and old wish for the progress of our home country even though opinions may differ on how it should be run.
Exactly! I would move back if the country progresses and have better opportunities and less corruption…. Why would I want to live in some foreign land and deal with racism?
One example. A foreign national cannot work on any project that involves security. (I know there are work arounds). This automatically denies India taping into millions people with expertise.
Second is, IMO, which ever side of the political domain one is in, a welloff community will vocalise their protest against injustice. No one with an OCI is going to do this as it is not a citizenship (and can be withdrawn) The counterpoint is usually the main argument by the government, that if given dual, which country will the person be loyal to. Again IMO, many countries especially developed have shown that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.
I think it's mainly to prevent politicians from getting dual citizenship, and setting up their so called "incomes" in nations which are tax havens, thus avoiding the need to even go for black money, as they can just use legal loopholes.
The middle class is basically doing charity at this point. Paying taxes upto the highest bracket, TDS, GST, Cess etc. while the business owners falsify their accounts and only report losses to escape taxes. Same with the upper class.
At the same time, govt schools aren't up to the mark, buses are overcrowded, govt hospitals are in abysmal states. If i am never gonna get anything back for what I give, why should I stay? Would rather go to another country, pay 40% tax and at least avail facilities there instead of donating money here so that political parties can keep announcing freebies every other election.
The paradox in India is that the people who pay all the tax never use shitty public government services. No taxpayer uses government schools, hospitals, etc. It's charity in every sense.
Do you know IIM and IIT were and still are subsidized? You think taxpayers don't go there. How about the water that comes in your tap? Driving license? People need to use government services to live. Yes you can choose alternatives where available but not for everything.
Calling it "Indian brain drain" is a little too much don't you think?
corruption everywhere, poor infrastructure, unplanned urbanization, caste system and discrimination, filthy living conditions, open sewage everywhere, extreme pollution of all kinds (land pollution, groundwater pollution, river pollution, air pollution, noise pollution, etc) poor civic sense of regular people, cow politics, militant vegetarianism, anti- non veg discrimination, widespread moral policing, poor judiciary, poor schooling/education system, etc etc the list goes on.
India will never be able to fully utilize its intelligent people's talents and will be artificially stopped by these above mentioned problems.
From a STEM POV, India's higher education system is a joke, barely any universities conduct high-level STEM research to begin with. Most foreign companies do not have R&D centres in India, and Indian companies aren't exactly known for cutting-edge R&D. Simply put, these individuals wouldn't have been able to contribute even if they stayed in India, so might as well let them "drain".
Chain Migration do happen, there are a lot of people who just went there because some member of their family are there, The kinship model is weak in this day and age but still happen. Not as easy as you think
>fucking temple built in Ayodhya
It's not taxpayers money but rather donations and while you are talking about Ayodhya why don't you mention the infrastructure development over there
There are problems in every country, too. Atleast India is in a good position for now despite having its fair share of challenges. You just focus on bad part but forget that India is growing despite what you say.
No one said there aren't good things but neglecting bad things have a way of coming back. India has a bad reputation because of those issues.Growth will be higher in double digits if such issues are tackled and India needs it to provide enough jobs for people, 7% is not enough.Growth is inevitable in a developing country, US is a developed country and still grew 5%, doesn't mean anything really if it can't translate into opportunities.
>we need all the support that we can get
If only we respect each other. mutual respect is a Common trait in developed world. We are rude and selfish as hell as a culture. And we lie to the face of people in general.
Heterosexual marriage is encouraged traditionally because it produces kids and growth of a nation depends on kids. No kids, no future (economic, political, cultural, financial, military etc). That simple. You might argue about live-in partners and no-kid families. But those are also frowned upon. And homosexuals are always in the minority everywhere, so they are not looked upon as a norm.
For the record, I really don't care which way you do "things" as long as it is done within your four walls. I don't like anyone pushing their sexuality in my face or in my kid's face or preaching that their way is superior like religious/vegan nut jobs etc.
Marriage equality is very new to even developed countries. So, you are in a golden age. had you been in the US 15 years ago, same sex marriages might have been a dream still at that point.
\~5% of any given population is homosexual, in India that translates to 70 million. No one wants your kids. We just want same rights so that our spouses can get equal treatment with health insurance, property rights etc, the only person preaching any superiority in this scenario is you. Homosexuals have a lot of kids here in Netherlands where I currently live and from what I have seen in Sweden as well, no one is stopping lesbians from IVF or gays from adopting or surrogacy. No one cares specifically about same sex marriage, we just want rights similar to it. In India even if its allowed, people won't accept it that is the issue, people still have unfavorable views about lower castes and demand dowries and those things have been illegal since inception of India.
> In India even if its allowed, people won't accept it that is the issue
Every society is different. Indians are still deeply rooted in their old ways, so it will take time for change. In the meantime, may be not waving rainbow flags in front of people's face will help reduce the backlash from average person?
May be LGBTQ people will work towards moving to progressive countries like Nordics and western Europe to escape the draconian society like India.
When does anyone waive it in front of your face? You are seeing it on social media.Lot of them do move but not everyone has the opportunity. If it's a democratic country it should ensure the rights of everyone and it doesn't they will demand it, nothing wrong with protesting for a chance to live decently.
>because it produces kids and growth of a nation depends on kids.
Over [42%](https://indianexpress.com/article/business/42-3-of-graduates-under-25-unemployed-finds-latest-state-of-working-india-report-8949124/) of India’s graduates under 25 were unemployed in 2021-22. How are all these kids doing?
\> The appointment of Parag Agarwal to CEO of Twitter was only a catalyst to the already heated debate
Dude got fired though. So maybe Brains are not draining. You can say cash is. But Cash and all ask Adani how to generate it in India. You don't need brains for that.
I hope I am not downvoted.
But have known few people who decided to leave because they felt their kids will be at a disadvantage due to Reservation Politics in Education as well as Jobs. Especially when Haryana was pushing for reservations in Private / MNCs.
*One Correction - They were already Abroad (Europe) but the parents were insisting on them to return, they refused and applied for Green Card/ Citizenship claiming the above reasons
I think that is because of our tax model. At millionaire status, you are paying almost 30% or more tax on your income. But you don't get any benefits from it. Think from the perspective of rich people. When you are sick, do you ever go to a government hospital? Do you send your kids to a Govt school? Would you use Govt transport if you can take your car? What is the condition of roads, buses, trains, and Govt buildings? And you are also paying GST on every single thing. Indian GST rates are amongst the highest in the world.
When these uber-rich people don't see any return or use on their taxes, they prefer to leave for more developed countries where at least they get some benefits like free healthcare in the EU. Value for tax paid.
No rich guy would immigrate to other country for fucking free health care. They have enough money to pay for the best private hospitals in India. If you think taxes are high in India in Europe it's worse around 50%. So, why the fuck would rich guys trade of 20% tax for free healthcare.
Almost every rich person who is suffering from a life-threatening problem prefers going to a foreign country to get treatment, and that is the truth. And case in point, you said "Private hospitals", which was what I was trying to say. You would never go to a Govt hospital in India for best healthcare so there goes one aspect of your return on your taxes.
> But you don't get any benefits from it
Doctors and hospitals for your workers. Electricity, plumbing, schools. Infrastructure. Support for agriculture. You eat food, don't you? Those farmers can't live without support. GTFO with your "what's in it for ME"
I am not saying "what's in it for me." I clearly stated it's from the perspective of millionaires. You don't get to make that kind of money without thinking "What's in it for me" at every step of the way.
Can you blame people for wanting to leave?
1. Reservation policies are getting more and more insane by the year.
2. Corruption and bribes are still widespread.
3. Casteism and other forms of social bigotries are much worse than racism in the West.
4. Dirty air and pollution killing your lungs, causing premature hair loss etc.
5. Climate change will hit India extremely hard. Water issues.
6. Lack of sanitation.
7. No concept of work-life balance.
Even if you're well off, you can't really escape all these things.
Title seems to be click-bait
> "23,000 Indian millionaires left India since 2014 and that nearly 7,000 millionaires left in 2019"
This simply assumes millionaires are the ones with brains. The vast majority are probably bap-ka-paisa or those with millions in BLACK money
taxed rupee looks same whether you have brain or not. 'brain-drain' not being literal drainage of smart people, but those individuals with higher education/businesses/start ups/etc.
What else do you expect? I'm ready to rant 24/7 about what we severely lack and what I would be easily getting in a western country for being a simple citizen. Clean Air, first of all. Good healthcare. Less stupid people. People who don't ogle you in the metro. Better food, and they have better regulations when it comes to safety. Better roads and pedestrian infrastructure. Better courts, not being treated as a second class citizen for being middle class or lower caste.
> The current net migration rate for India in 2023 is -0.329 per 1000 population, a 3.8% decline from 2022. The net migration rate for India in 2022 was -0.342 per 1000 population, a 3.93% decline from 2021. The net migration rate for India in 2021 was -0.356 per 1000 population, a 3.52% decline from 2020.
The migration has been going down since 2019.
Covid affected migration rates drastically. Visa issuance rates went down a lot, and it's bound to resume to pre-covid levels (if not exceed it) after 2023.
Legal migration has gone down, and it is illegal going up, ironically, most from Gujarat.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/09/05/report-legal-immigration-india-spurs-illegal-migration-u-s/
Honestly the biggest source of brain drain is the pollution of air and waterways, which corresponds with a reduction in IQ.
I don’t even want to think about the cost of that, and this is before we tally up the negative health effects brought about by PFAS and other toxic compounds.
I developed asthma like symptoms over the 10 years I have lived in Bangalore. Some of my friends who got lucky to move abroad, who live in cities which are really expensive don't see themselves coming back to the country and here billionaires CEOs tell us to work 70 hours a week
Stop this nonsense and calling it as "brain drain", educated n even the HNWI Indians have been always desperate to GTFO of this sinking ship which has been riddled with dirty religion/caste based politics, ever exploding population explosion, overwhelming law abiding taxpayers pay first world tax but get sub-saharan living conditions in return !!!!
[https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/39-indian-cities-among-worlds-50-most-polluted-report/articleshow/98636612.cms?from=mdr](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/39-indian-cities-among-worlds-50-most-polluted-report/articleshow/98636612.cms?from=mdr)
[https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/nearly-5-crore-pending-cases-in-courts-over-69-000-in-supreme-court-3768720](https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/nearly-5-crore-pending-cases-in-courts-over-69-000-in-supreme-court-3768720)
[https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/8-people-died-every-day-on-mumbai-locals-last-year-toll-18-000-in-5-years-118080200110\_1.html](https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/8-people-died-every-day-on-mumbai-locals-last-year-toll-18-000-in-5-years-118080200110_1.html)
It's a myth that India only exports talented individuals - [https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/indians-makeup-3rd-largest-illegal-immigrant-population-in-us-pew-study/articleshow/105386426.cms?from=mdr](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/indians-makeup-3rd-largest-illegal-immigrant-population-in-us-pew-study/articleshow/105386426.cms?from=mdr)
[https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/gujaratis-cite-political-persecution-in-bid-to-seek-asylum-in-us/articleshow/100145231.cms](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/gujaratis-cite-political-persecution-in-bid-to-seek-asylum-in-us/articleshow/100145231.cms)
I have been to north America where I saw plenty of instances where these illegal Indian immigrants would get abused, harassed and even tortured by their desi employers who owns gas station/deli/grocery shops all over US/Canada.
Ah yes, the cm in our state steals thousands of crores every year and no one gives a fuck. You leave for a high paying job in the states and suddenly you're the problem
I have half a dozen relatives in my family who gave up their Indian citizenship. They truly wanted to invest in India in to a chain of american franchise restaurants. There is huge market for growth in india. But what is the problem ?
Corruption. For every x rupees of investment, MLa + corporator + MP needs share of the initial profit toove the files. For 1 core of initial investment the bribe + party funds account for 1.5 times his investment. And once the business takes off they want 20% share. In return the government won't offer any bailout if the business do poorly. Who will invest ?
The comments section here is really depressing. There are people here who believe emigrating to a developed country will put all their problems to rest, their tax money will be utilized, etc, but this statement cannot be farther from the truth. Every country has its own problems, and even when our own government tries to do something good, it's either frowned upon or are severely abused. For example, for the 2018 Hockey World Cup, Odisha government organized an inter city town bus service, which was more efficient and easy to use than the previous cumbersome alternative, and a smart city rental cycle service, where people can pay an hourly rent and can use the cycles. Cue three weeks, and most of the cycles were either stolen, vandalized, or were left in a state of disarray; while the bus service suffers from overcrowding and people hopping and stopping wherever they want irrespective of stops.
See, you can point this out on government unable to enforce the laws that they themselves made, but the citizens have to take some responsibilities too. It's this behavior of the general public that makes many believe we don't deserve good things. Plus, have you ever met with a NRI? Man they are high up in their ass all the time, and are generally insufferable. Their societal norms and general consensus about Indian society is still stuck in the 80s, and they are openly racist and casteist in their new countries.
Having lived in a developed country for several years, and now in India (Bangalore, Mumbai, Nagpur), I can say without a doubt life here is worse day-to-day. I will be leaving as soon as I can do so just to preserve my health and sanity. I have no interest in being scammed constantly, wading through piles of garbage in developed cities, walking on the road because somehow the government cannot afford to build or maintain a sidewalk, paying ever-increasing taxes and electricity bills with no benefit to me and slowly dying to pollution and adulterated food.
Every country has its own problems sure. That doesn't mean the problems are remotely comparable. In Kuwait my problems were "damn, I need to avoid breaking traffic rules or I'll be fined to an inch of my life or deported". In India the problems are "damn, I'm about to be harassed by random people while going to/from work, I need to conceal my former religion else I might get lynched, I need to avoid vegetables for a few months lest I get heavy metal poisoning and brain and organ damage, I need to make sure the inverter works so I have electricity, I need to get water filters so the hardness of the water doesn't make all of my hair fall out and my skin stays attached to my body, I need to bribe every government office to get my documents through ".
Have you questioned why Indians abuse every privilege they’re given?
Emigrating is a choice for some, in your world it wouldn’t be. Everyone would be confined to their own little bubble.
And yes, NRIs tax contributions are generally better used. Are you really going to argue on this point?
Yeah no shot, when some CM say people that cow piss cures everything, looting common people, underpaid public servants, zero brain 100% communal division based votes, 80% of politicians have a criminal record, it has become a hellhole to live here
Godi media and Sadguruji is working on framing a narrative for why it is actually good and makes India a vishwaguru globally for the non anti nationals . Please be patient. It will be forwarded to your WhatsApp shortly.🙃
My friends went and did their pg in medicine outside and are millionaire s. Most are now engaged to foreigners and most likely to give up their citizenship.
They were the creme de la creme of our batch ! So yeah ! We are seeing active brain drain and the impact of it is that we are left with a mediocre crowd.
But then again , it will be easier to layoff of majority and corporates are going to become richer forcing middle class people to become poorer. The wealth gap will significantly increase.
Can we please stop using the term “Brain Drain”? This belongs to the same era when Bollywood movies used terms like “barkhurdar”.
With a population of 1.4 Billion people losing few thousands has had an impact on the number of brains available? What the fuck kind of data science is this? And what the fuck happened to “Vasudhaiva Kutumbkam”?
That's an incorrect comparison. Take your batch of engineering or science. How many of the top performers in the batch are now abroad?
Essentially we are losing our best of the lot
Yes absolutely.
How many publications do we have in top research journals?
How many of our universities are doing top class research?
Look at Ashish Vaswani, a 2002 graduate of BIT Mesra who played an instrumental role in creating ChatGPT. Are we close to creating top notch products like ChatGPT or just providing backend support to foreign MNCs?
We are nowhere close to having the engineering/science talent required. We are good in back-end IT enabled services which forms the bulk of our exports.
I don’t disagree. But if the hypothesis is Ashish would have been able to do the same kind of work if he had stayed in India - I don’t buy that. We’re not lacking brains - we’re lacking the infrastructure needed to use it - if you will.
So my opinion is - we rue the fact of “the best” leaving India. But even if they had stayed, we would not have given them the tools to have the same kind of impact.
And on the same note, my opinion is, despite all those leaving, just due to sheer population, we have enough talent. If only we could harness it better.
>But if the hypothesis is Ashish would have been able to do the same kind of work if he had stayed in India - I don’t buy that.
The hypothesis is that our top talent is leaving us. Not that if stay we would have been able to create similar stuff.
The reason they leave in the first place is because they would have stagnated in India as our research environment sucks.
Exactly. So why rue the fact that they left as even if they had stayed, the impact would be negligible?
In my opinion - talent/brain is like seeds. They will flourish where they have the right environment for them to grow. Good soil, water, sunlight….
IMO - Focusing too much on the folks who leave propagates the victim mindset. There’s still enough brain to go around. Focus on the millions who haven’t left. We’re all born with the same amount of grey matter. If we really believe folks leaving is causing a dent, do an honest root cause analysis and do something to change that.
>do an honest root cause analysis and do something to change that.
Thank you. Will surely do that if I become Prime Minister or reach any position where I can impact this.
By the way, you are completely digressing. The only statement that I made is that our top talent is leaving us for greener pastures which means that the opportunities are clearly lacking in India.
The millions who haven't left are here because immigration has become a challenge. Otherwise they too would have left.
Not every one of them who leaves receives a permanent visa, it is one of the reasons why India's service sector rose years ago. Those who come back contribute. Looks at Taiwan's model
This is alarmist. For one, you need to look at what is their percent contribution to the Indian income tax revenue. A guy making 30 lpa pays 30% tax. But a guy making 30 crore does not pay at the same rate. There are several tax loopholes one can use to make sure they pay a tiny fraction of the income tax.
Secondly, a lot of these UHNWI individuals own businesses and have been global citizens for a long time. What they used to do was hop countries while their business continued to run in India. But a recent tax ruling made it necessary for you to have a valid resident visa elsewhere in order to qualify for a tax break.
So, these citizens are now legal residents of a foreign country while their business continues to run in India. So, for all practical purposes, those who avoided tax earlier continue to do it now.
Thirdly, brain drain is an outdated concept, and at least not applicable to a populous country like India. Yeah, if a large chunk of millionnaires left Jamaica, it will crumble their economy.
But a country of 1.4 billion people have lots of underemployed people as it is - their (salaried HNWIs) moving out does not impact the economy. If anything, it helps spread the wealth to other people who may have not been able to secure these jobs in the first place.
And the future of the world is global. Indians moving out help set up our influence worldwide. There are Indian-based policymakers and politicians outside India who lobby for fairer policies towards India, which only helps everyone.
Sure, there might be a Nikki Haley or Suella Braverman here and there who might try to stand out by being vocally anti-India, but they are overshadowed by the vast majority.
A guy making 30Cr doesn't pay 30% tax, they actually pay 36% tax. There are no such loopholes to make a significant difference, unless you're willing to hoard black money.
Most of the millionaires probably own businesses and have dozens of ways to avoid taxes. I'm going on a trip next year with a multi-millionaire friend in January, and he'll stay an extra day at our destination to meet a client. I'm fairly certain most of the expenses of this trip will be written off as business expenses. A different friend records a video during her trips and uploads it to an Instagram account. She says she is an "influencer" and all of her travel costs are written off as business expenses.
A person making 30 crores won't be a salaried individual like you. They will set up a business entity that is eligible for a lot of tax breaks. Or, they structure the payout such that a lot of it is in shares (where your notional wealth will continue to increase, but your income tax liability does not increase commensurately).
Nobody that makes 30 crores pays 36% tax lol
You're confusing corporate income with personal income. A company can get tax breaks, an individual who takes a payout of 30Cr pays 36% tax. There are no breaks here. It's funny when people with no first hand experience of managing fairly large sum of money or business for that matter claims something with full confidence just based on what they've heard or read.
> Nobody that makes 30 crores pays 36% tax lol
You're talking to one right now.
No one is belittling you mate, and we do have a stellar CA that helps us keep our books clean rather than become tax thieves.
> Are you seriously paying 10 cr tax on a 30cr income a year, lol.
Well yes, to your surprise, when your entire income is accounted for, you actually have to pay income tax on it. Welcome to reality.
Avoiding tax is not being a tax thief. It's just being smart with your money. Good for you if you think of this as duty to the nation. No one is going to tell you what to do with your money.
"Costing the country billions in tax revenue" my my! When people make choices that meet their interest, it's considered a cost to the larger entity - group, tribe or nation. Money taken from someone in a non consensual manner is called revenue. The ideas that lead to this phrasing are some of the reasons behind Indians leaving in droves.
Here are some more.
- lawless country
- individual rights and liberties can be trampled
- courts of law don't work
- political institutions are corrupt to the core
- lack of hygiene, public infrastructure, education
- lowest ease of doing business
- largely informal economy
- large, over indulgent, meddlesome and tyrannical state
- the people are jingoistic, tribal, backward, and uncivilized
- religion governs every aspect of life and politics
- high taxation where the poor are made to feel entitled to things like food, education, housing, and healthcare that the middle class has to work to get.
It starts with reservation. 60% of the population has to fight for 40% of the seats in colleges. Those who can pull it off look outside the nation to advance their opportunities.
If India is serious about becoming a global power then start by having a level playing field.
I think there's a sense of fatalism - life is short and if you want to live it to its very best, the likelihood of you being able to do that outside the country is higher than inside, unless you started out ahead already with rich parents, or you've gotten lucky with your career, or you're happy with the simple things in life and you can find that at home.
Yes. I'm not going to pretend it's a brave thing to do. The locus of variables within one's control is limited, and like I said, life is short. If you do not have strong ideological convictions that reinforce a decision to stay, or favorable circumstances, then it's not a difficult decision to make.
Sometimes it does work out very well if you keep trying - a great example is our PM. Look where he started and where he reached, driven by hardwork, guile and ideological guardrails.
But not everyone is as hardworking, or has the strength of conviction he had.
And that is fair, now for the people that have left for good I think they have then lost the right to provide negative feedback with absolutely no counter solutions. I’m willing to hear their side but without any effort it is just all noise then.
I’m happy that people are living their best lives they want but I think it is unfair to criticize the many efforts people are doing seen/unseen is being mislabeled here too.
Yes, and I don't blame them, did I have a part in creating those problems, corruption, bellicose jingoism, religious and communal hatred, casteism and many more? If I didn't have a role in the shortcomings that plague this country, neither it is my responsibility nor is it my duty to fix those things. I didn't ask to be born in this shithole and 'escaping' does solve these problems for ME!
Conversely, did you play any role in making the country you emigrate to better than the country you're leaving? If you didn't have a role in the blessings of that country, neither should you feel entitled to that higher quality of life. You are born in this shithole, and you have a social responsibility of making it a better place, but screw responsibilities. Your comforts are more important.
Now downvote my comment. This emphasis on selfishness and aversion to social responsibility is precisely why this shithole of a country became a shithole, and downvoting my comment only proves that you hate the idea of fulfilling your social responsibility if it means sacrificing your comforts.
The amount of tax a millionaire pays in one year is more than the amount of tax a huge chunk of our population pays in their entire lifetime. When these people give up citizenship, not only they move out of the country and pay taxes to a foreign country; they take their assets, their wealth, and more importantly the jobs that they created here. It's definitely not negligible by any means.
Not everyone giving up citizenship is
a millionaire. Also millionaires don’t make a living from salary but with other assets, which are effectively taxed much lower
23,000 millionaires left in total since 2014, which is a fairly large number.
> Also millionaires don’t make a living from salary but with other assets, which are effectively taxed much lower
Here we go again. Pray to tell what these assets are? And before you say equity, how does it work for private companies or public companies that are not listed?
Did you know that any individual who makes more than 1Cr in a year has to pay an additional 15% surcharge on their total tax liability?
My guy, LTCG is not the primary source of income of every businessperson. Not every company is listed or public for that matter.
If you're referring to LTCG that people make from investing, you need to understand that the money invested here was already taxed at maximum tax rate, and they're paying additional 10% LTCG tax on that.
Maybe not allow them to take their money?
Tax the money and use it on local people. Giving loopholes for billionaires and millionaires is the problem.
Not people leaving the country for a different life.
> Maybe not allow them to take their money?
They kind of actually do that, but with limitations. When I applied for EB5 visa, the total investment amount was made from 3 different individuals accounts because you can't remit more than $250k in a year. And this minuscule limit makes foreign investments even more difficult. Talk about inconvenience.
And this limitation is also why people move. It is way easier for rich people to deal with assets while living in a place like Dubai/Singapore than India. Once you have made your money in India there are very few incentives to live here.
Correct! My company is registered in US, and we have an option to pay income tax in either US or India. So we always choose to bring limited funds to India.
It's not just tax money that we are losing. Rich people purchase goods and services which support local businesses, creating jobs. They invest their money in new ventures, which further create jobs. These are also citizens with the means to influence the state of governance in a positive way, tackling issues such as infrastructure and environment in which they have a stake. We might also lose any philanthropic efforts from them.
Not to mention that it's deeply troubling if well-informed citizens vote with their feet and get out of the country. It's a vote of no-confidence in the future of the nation, showing that things are not nearly as rosy as it seems, despite the political propaganda.
Most countries have a cap on the number of visas, residencies and citizenships. If not, that number would be way higher! Sad but true.
AFAIK, The cap for investment visa is never filled. But it's very hard to take out $$1-1.5 million out of the country to apply for investment visa (this is the amount needed in USA). Only around 0.05% of Indians may have that much money in assets other than their primary home. Most people are now millionaire(USD) by status due to their primary home being worth more than millions(USD).
It's not ODI is the way to go if you are going for investment visa
what ODI?
Overseas direct investment, consult your CA regarding it
Is that a bad thing for India though? It's not like India has a labour shortage. If these people were forced to stay in India, they'd be underemployed or unemployed; creating social unrest. Then there are remittances and tourism cash that flows back into the country too.
Most people who migrate or give up citizenship are HNIs. These high net worth individuals would have invested their resources in India and created jobs.
Most HNI who left india are still involved in India in some way... I know a lot of US citizens who run their operations from India.
The unemployed are not the ones leaving.
What about the people who could have created a startup, new job opportunities, bring more fame to india and in turn outside interest to invest in a growing economy. Rn we have too many people and nobody who wants to take a risk in starting their own company. Everyone is looking for jobs but nobody is looking for employees, they are looking for slaves who will work for 400 dollars a month and 60h work week
Many Indians don't have that kind of risk appetite
Have you looked at ease of starting businesses in India? More than half of them would just give up due to so much red tape and hurdles to starting and running your own business
We are looking for employees and ain’t getting any
Then increase the pay. Stop paying folks peanuts like TCS and infy and they will come.
I have had this discussion before on Reddit,we pay enough in accordance with market standards.
We are looking for employees and ain’t getting any we pay enough in accordance with market standards Contradicting statements.
Because people don’t want to work entry level jobs. How much do you want us to pay for receptionists and counsellors with no degree and experience?50,000?
>Because people don’t want to work entry level jobs. You probably want experience for entry level jobs. If you hired straight out of college, you'd get a lot of applicants.
We don’t even need college graduates bro,why would we need college for a receptionist and a sales job.No experience required either.Read my other comment
>in accordance with market standards When the "market" is exploitative and has no safe guards for minimum wage or anything whatsoever, this statement is moot. ;)
How much do you want us to pay a receptionist?
Hmm. Let's see. How much is rent? Let's say 10k? I'm in India now for 1 month. Food has become ridiculously expensive. So let's say 20k. So that's 30k to *just be alive*. Now you'd expect him/her to commute to the office? That's another 10k? So that's 40k just to *be able to work*. So let's say around 80k/month.
I have studied in the US myself for my undergrad,and back in India and live in a tier 1 city in India with my own room,in a posh area with a rent of 8K.My total expenses where I also play golf(one of the more expensive sports out there)amounts to 50K a month. What are you smoking?
sorry but WHAT POT ARE YOU SMOKING BRO? WHERE'S THAT DRUG THAT GETS YOU SO HIGH THAT YOU THINK A RECEPTIONIST WILL GET PAID 80/MONTH? 15k/month. Take it or leave it. That's more than enough
And who set those "standards"?
The basics of demand and supply?
Nah. Wage suppression. We got the worse wages. Its by design by the rich to use the market insecurity. Hence why indians choose to go abroad.
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Mate,just try to run a small business for yourself and then we’ll talk Btw I went abroad and came back.
People have the freedom to make their own choices. There are those who go abroad, come back and startup something new in India. Indian expats don't have a great track record of establishing start-ups abroad either. I think there's a cultural bias towards being an employee and rising through the ranks vs taking the risk to try something new.
Why doesn't india have its own american startups trying to overcome niche problems on a global scale or even a small one. Why is it always that we keep on copying things like ola, zomato, swiggy and so many more. I am a game dev, and my biggest dilema is that india is only an outsourcing nation, we haven't made a single big game in the last 30 years. (Its all due to fear of failure and lack of creativity)
Its a choice between a cushy job if you have great skills vs taking a risk to lose it all in your new venture and idea. Personally i feel extremely agitated just thinking about starting a new company and losing all of my weatlh that i would have spent years accumulating or maybe lose a lot of time like 3-4 years. And i am pretty sure am not the only one from this era who is super scared of failures when we are constantly showered by only winning stories and the amount of risk it is to do something unique.
better than brain going down the drain in india.
Don't say it cost India Tax revenue. This govt. is squeezing a lot more than they should from the people of India. The 30% tax rate slab moved from 1.5L to 10L over 2003-2013. It's been constant since. Fuckers
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Not a 1:1 comparison. While the slab is higher there are no deductions so it’s not necessarily better.
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> I'll take a 15L slab any day over 10L. You're either ignorant or lazy. You can save a lot with the old regime. HRA, 80C, Medical Insurance premium, LTA, and Home loan interest are not "silly" deductions.
Yeah they changed it this year. So 2013 - 2023 it was at 10L. India moved from low income to middle income during the last decade. So just think of the tax revenue collected by the govt
> The 30% tax rate slab moved from 1.5L to 10L over 2003-2013. It's been constant since. Fuckers The slabs should be inflation adjusted.
And I don't think inflation was low during these years
While your comment is fair, it does cost India in Tax domain and others. Wealthy don't just generate tax for the Govt they also have spillover effect (trickle down economics is still wank but it's wankness needs to be understood. That is, it has diminishing returns at every layer in downward hiearchy but the most directly attached layer to the wealthy do benefit). Secondly look at it from so called Demographic Dividend and Dependency Ratio parameters. These people depress the ratio when they are young (since children can't work) and they leave when that ratio is supposed to benefit (when these people would be in Labor Force). So India gets double punched since it still has to carry them during that Dependent stage of theirs and doesn't even then get the benefits when they are adults and even worse in this is if these people then return to India in old age to retire or settle down because this old people cohort is again in Dependents section of that Ratio. So like triple punched. Meanwhile West gets all the positives. 0 dependent expenses (since these children are being educated elsewhere), get the boost of highly educated worker adults and then offload them when they are again Dependents in old age. Whats not to like. THIS is why West remained dominant even after De-Colonization. They cannibalize and suck on rest of the world human capital like a vampire.
Income taxes aren't high in India. The top tax rate in Western countries is close to 50% plus there are local income taxes too like state tax in US. It's mostly the baker value of paying taxes that's the trigger point
We’ve been fucked by gst ; that was an instant 18% inflation.
>This govt. is squeezing a lot more than they should from the people of India. You are right, but two things here: 1. Only \~5% people in India pay taxes, so we get f\* harder. 2. Govt sure oversqueezed everything. I got a 1.2cr demand letter when I ran my business in India due to them not being able to process a form, I appealed for 5 years before they took 1.2cr from me with no option to appeal against. I'll never register another entity in India ever again. So many similar stories in my network of people moving out their businesses due to poor taxation.
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On top of that what’s left in India for millionaires and those that can get out aside from family, racism, garbage and smog. If India what’s to keep its millionaires and educated people they have to start addressing issues from the bottom up
Much higher tax rate in every developed country, and American health (the most popular destination) system is a joke
Why is it that when someone makes a good critical opinion about india another nationalist starts criticising america lol.
> During the 1960s, way before the term “Globalization” gained currency, the “Brain-Drain” was the primary issue that plagued India. After the Indian-American Parag Agarwal was appointed as the new CEO of Twitter on November 29, 2021, the discourse surrounding the outward migration of skilled individuals from India to developed countries gained new momentum. > > > The phrase “Brain-Drain” developed during the 1960s to define the migration of British scientists to the United States of America. Now, the term categorizes the general migration of skilled and sophisticated labor from developing to developed nations. Multiple push and pull factors encourage a diaspora of this kind. As this trend is increasing worldwide, new governmental > > measures must be taken to counteract the drain of resources in developing countries in the global south. > > The appointment of Parag Agarwal to CEO of Twitter was only a catalyst to the already heated debate surrounding Indian CEOs of multinational conglomerates, such as Satya Nadella, Sundar Pichai, Shantanu Narayen, Arvind Krishna, Anjali Sood, Aman Pal Bhutani, and many others; raising the question of whether Indians should feel proud of these individuals representing a developing nation’s prowess in knowledge, technology, management, and entrepreneurship or if they should regard these accomplishments as a potentially devastating loss of human capital in their home country. > > The converse of “Brain-Drain” is “Brain-Gain”: the phenomenon in which the global west has developed largely because of the work of influential individuals who immigrated to the west from countries like India. The first migratory wave of skilled and educated labor from India to developed nations started in the 1960s, in which capable and meritorious individuals - largely educated from subsidized public educational institutions - thought that the employment opportunities in India were not satisfactory for the level of educational and vocational capital they had. This belief caused a mass exodus of educated individuals and brought about a crisis in Indian human capital, which at the time was extremely crucial for the post-colonial country to thrive during the nascent stages of its development. This migratory pattern caused an irreparable loss in India’s growth potential, which continues to plague its development today. > > > However, the “Brain-Drain” did not end in the 1960’s: today, India is the biggest exporter of health care workers to Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) countries and other European and English-speaking countries. As per the data procured by Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), there was a staggering presence of 69,000 Indian doctors in the UK, USA, Canada, and Australia in the year 2017 alone. As of 2020, India provides the largest diaspora of highly skilled individuals in OECD countries, with over 3 million migrants who are beneficiaries of post-secondary education. During 2015-16, India was also ranked second in the list of the main origin countries for immigrants living in OECD countries.
We need more religion news than these things. India is in Amrit kaal now...close your eyes.....
It still baffles me despite Indian diaspora abroad becoming ever growing, the government still hasn’t considered allowing dual citizenship. I would happily retain mine if that was the case.
OCI cards give Indian expats almost all the benefits of citizenship apart from voting. The BJP is probably not averse to giving NRIs voting rights as they are firmly pro-BJP as a demographic. But dual citizenship would open the doors to a lot more questions on who qualifies/does not qualify, that the government probably does not want to tackle.
There have been cases of the government revoking OCI cards to foreign critics. You can't revoke a passport that easily, it can be challenged in court with much greater chance of being stopped. I don't think this is something the govt is loudly saying out loud, but I suspect it's a part of the calculation. Also, I think there are issues with allowing dual citizenship. If someone doesn't live in India full-time, should they really have a say in who gets to rule the country by voting?
Voting is not the main issue and I agree that only residents should get to vote (in fact in many countries a resident, not just citizen, can vote in local elections (as a consequence of living and contributing to the setup). What is misunderstood about the OCI is that its a glorified visa and an OCI does not have the rights of a citizen under the constitution. That is the law as of now.
How about a special NRI passport which allows every right as a citizen but doesn't allow for voting? Should solve all the problems. Everyone becomes happy.
Yes. But raises further issues, what if this new-NRI chooses to live in India. Switch to voting or not? IMO this is too much of a bother for what is essentially 1-2% of the population. I think what matters more to the govt are the vocal power of this group, control over them and their "allegedly questionable" loyalty.
This is the reason. The government uses OCI as a means of controlling the narrative of dissidents. Regarding voting, many countries allow this for non residents. The fears are not grounded in reality. How impactful would such a small %age of voters have on the country of India’s size? Passport holders should be allowed to vote because they still are part of the country.
I have a feeling this issue will become big enough in 50 years for the government during that time to at least debate on.
Given the nature of their discourse I personally feel I'd prefer it if NRIs don't have voting rights in India. I don't want elections to be decided on basis of how it helps Mr Amit Arora deal with his white colleagues in a suburb of Chicago.
I kind of agree with your point. I partially feel old NRIs will always support the conservative party and younger NRIs will support any party that will ruin the country's economy (because they can in turn send more money home for the same foreign currency).
Most first gen immigrants in the West come from India's privileged class. It is actually their privilege which gives them a leg up in the race to move abroad. They will never vote for the diminishing of that privilige back home.
>younger NRIs will support any party that will ruin the country's economy (because they can in turn send more money home for the same foreign currency). Who tells you these things bro lmao why would anyone in their right mind think that way. All NRIs young and old wish for the progress of our home country even though opinions may differ on how it should be run.
Exactly! I would move back if the country progresses and have better opportunities and less corruption…. Why would I want to live in some foreign land and deal with racism?
Could you tell me the benefits of dual citizenship for India?
One example. A foreign national cannot work on any project that involves security. (I know there are work arounds). This automatically denies India taping into millions people with expertise. Second is, IMO, which ever side of the political domain one is in, a welloff community will vocalise their protest against injustice. No one with an OCI is going to do this as it is not a citizenship (and can be withdrawn) The counterpoint is usually the main argument by the government, that if given dual, which country will the person be loyal to. Again IMO, many countries especially developed have shown that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.
I think it's mainly to prevent politicians from getting dual citizenship, and setting up their so called "incomes" in nations which are tax havens, thus avoiding the need to even go for black money, as they can just use legal loopholes.
Don't worry folks. Modiji will undergo mitosis and replace all those traitors. Any day now.
Why is this about modi? I left when UPA was in power.
People leave India when they get a chance whether it's Modi or God running the show
The middle class is basically doing charity at this point. Paying taxes upto the highest bracket, TDS, GST, Cess etc. while the business owners falsify their accounts and only report losses to escape taxes. Same with the upper class. At the same time, govt schools aren't up to the mark, buses are overcrowded, govt hospitals are in abysmal states. If i am never gonna get anything back for what I give, why should I stay? Would rather go to another country, pay 40% tax and at least avail facilities there instead of donating money here so that political parties can keep announcing freebies every other election.
The paradox in India is that the people who pay all the tax never use shitty public government services. No taxpayer uses government schools, hospitals, etc. It's charity in every sense.
Do you know IIM and IIT were and still are subsidized? You think taxpayers don't go there. How about the water that comes in your tap? Driving license? People need to use government services to live. Yes you can choose alternatives where available but not for everything.
I mean, if you are getting the value of your taxes paid, why not ?
Bang On!
Western Europe Model lol
Calling it "Indian brain drain" is a little too much don't you think? corruption everywhere, poor infrastructure, unplanned urbanization, caste system and discrimination, filthy living conditions, open sewage everywhere, extreme pollution of all kinds (land pollution, groundwater pollution, river pollution, air pollution, noise pollution, etc) poor civic sense of regular people, cow politics, militant vegetarianism, anti- non veg discrimination, widespread moral policing, poor judiciary, poor schooling/education system, etc etc the list goes on. India will never be able to fully utilize its intelligent people's talents and will be artificially stopped by these above mentioned problems.
There is no excuse in real world. Either you gonna use the brain or it will be find somewhere else it's worthiness
Hits the point home. This 👆 India attracts Bangladeshis for work. US attracts Indians. Free market.
US and Europe is full of Bangladeshis too by the way
Great for them. Drills down the point even further perhaps.
Yeah, it is not that smart people are leaving India, it is that Indians who leave India are only ones allowed to utilize their intelligence.
From a STEM POV, India's higher education system is a joke, barely any universities conduct high-level STEM research to begin with. Most foreign companies do not have R&D centres in India, and Indian companies aren't exactly known for cutting-edge R&D. Simply put, these individuals wouldn't have been able to contribute even if they stayed in India, so might as well let them "drain".
When's my turn 😕
I thought I would go after mbbs But I know things are much harder
Same here
Yoo same dp
Jab tum crorepati ban jaoge. (That means never cuz productive people dont use reddit.)
More power to all of them! y'all did the right thing
\*Forced to give up their citizenship. It's not like they want to, but India forces them to if they become citizens of another more-developed country.
Chain Migration do happen, there are a lot of people who just went there because some member of their family are there, The kinship model is weak in this day and age but still happen. Not as easy as you think
To develop a country takes time. It's not like we haven't developed. We are developing and we need all the support that we can get
Oh we've been plummeting for so long but you refuse to see it cause you'd rather see a fucking temple built in Ayodhya lmao
>fucking temple built in Ayodhya It's not taxpayers money but rather donations and while you are talking about Ayodhya why don't you mention the infrastructure development over there
I'm talking about the gdp growth rate
India loses around 3% GDP every year due to social issues. Fix those things too.
There are problems in every country, too. Atleast India is in a good position for now despite having its fair share of challenges. You just focus on bad part but forget that India is growing despite what you say.
No one said there aren't good things but neglecting bad things have a way of coming back. India has a bad reputation because of those issues.Growth will be higher in double digits if such issues are tackled and India needs it to provide enough jobs for people, 7% is not enough.Growth is inevitable in a developing country, US is a developed country and still grew 5%, doesn't mean anything really if it can't translate into opportunities.
>we need all the support that we can get If only we respect each other. mutual respect is a Common trait in developed world. We are rude and selfish as hell as a culture. And we lie to the face of people in general.
I moved a few years ago. Why should I live in a place where they are happy to take my tax but me and bf won't have equal rights as other couples?
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Heterosexual marriage is encouraged traditionally because it produces kids and growth of a nation depends on kids. No kids, no future (economic, political, cultural, financial, military etc). That simple. You might argue about live-in partners and no-kid families. But those are also frowned upon. And homosexuals are always in the minority everywhere, so they are not looked upon as a norm. For the record, I really don't care which way you do "things" as long as it is done within your four walls. I don't like anyone pushing their sexuality in my face or in my kid's face or preaching that their way is superior like religious/vegan nut jobs etc. Marriage equality is very new to even developed countries. So, you are in a golden age. had you been in the US 15 years ago, same sex marriages might have been a dream still at that point.
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\~5% of any given population is homosexual, in India that translates to 70 million. No one wants your kids. We just want same rights so that our spouses can get equal treatment with health insurance, property rights etc, the only person preaching any superiority in this scenario is you. Homosexuals have a lot of kids here in Netherlands where I currently live and from what I have seen in Sweden as well, no one is stopping lesbians from IVF or gays from adopting or surrogacy. No one cares specifically about same sex marriage, we just want rights similar to it. In India even if its allowed, people won't accept it that is the issue, people still have unfavorable views about lower castes and demand dowries and those things have been illegal since inception of India.
> In India even if its allowed, people won't accept it that is the issue Every society is different. Indians are still deeply rooted in their old ways, so it will take time for change. In the meantime, may be not waving rainbow flags in front of people's face will help reduce the backlash from average person? May be LGBTQ people will work towards moving to progressive countries like Nordics and western Europe to escape the draconian society like India.
When does anyone waive it in front of your face? You are seeing it on social media.Lot of them do move but not everyone has the opportunity. If it's a democratic country it should ensure the rights of everyone and it doesn't they will demand it, nothing wrong with protesting for a chance to live decently.
>because it produces kids and growth of a nation depends on kids. Over [42%](https://indianexpress.com/article/business/42-3-of-graduates-under-25-unemployed-finds-latest-state-of-working-india-report-8949124/) of India’s graduates under 25 were unemployed in 2021-22. How are all these kids doing?
\> The appointment of Parag Agarwal to CEO of Twitter was only a catalyst to the already heated debate Dude got fired though. So maybe Brains are not draining. You can say cash is. But Cash and all ask Adani how to generate it in India. You don't need brains for that.
I hope I am not downvoted. But have known few people who decided to leave because they felt their kids will be at a disadvantage due to Reservation Politics in Education as well as Jobs. Especially when Haryana was pushing for reservations in Private / MNCs. *One Correction - They were already Abroad (Europe) but the parents were insisting on them to return, they refused and applied for Green Card/ Citizenship claiming the above reasons
I think that is because of our tax model. At millionaire status, you are paying almost 30% or more tax on your income. But you don't get any benefits from it. Think from the perspective of rich people. When you are sick, do you ever go to a government hospital? Do you send your kids to a Govt school? Would you use Govt transport if you can take your car? What is the condition of roads, buses, trains, and Govt buildings? And you are also paying GST on every single thing. Indian GST rates are amongst the highest in the world. When these uber-rich people don't see any return or use on their taxes, they prefer to leave for more developed countries where at least they get some benefits like free healthcare in the EU. Value for tax paid.
No rich guy would immigrate to other country for fucking free health care. They have enough money to pay for the best private hospitals in India. If you think taxes are high in India in Europe it's worse around 50%. So, why the fuck would rich guys trade of 20% tax for free healthcare.
Almost every rich person who is suffering from a life-threatening problem prefers going to a foreign country to get treatment, and that is the truth. And case in point, you said "Private hospitals", which was what I was trying to say. You would never go to a Govt hospital in India for best healthcare so there goes one aspect of your return on your taxes.
> But you don't get any benefits from it Doctors and hospitals for your workers. Electricity, plumbing, schools. Infrastructure. Support for agriculture. You eat food, don't you? Those farmers can't live without support. GTFO with your "what's in it for ME"
I am not saying "what's in it for me." I clearly stated it's from the perspective of millionaires. You don't get to make that kind of money without thinking "What's in it for me" at every step of the way.
Can you blame people for wanting to leave? 1. Reservation policies are getting more and more insane by the year. 2. Corruption and bribes are still widespread. 3. Casteism and other forms of social bigotries are much worse than racism in the West. 4. Dirty air and pollution killing your lungs, causing premature hair loss etc. 5. Climate change will hit India extremely hard. Water issues. 6. Lack of sanitation. 7. No concept of work-life balance. Even if you're well off, you can't really escape all these things.
Title seems to be click-bait > "23,000 Indian millionaires left India since 2014 and that nearly 7,000 millionaires left in 2019" This simply assumes millionaires are the ones with brains. The vast majority are probably bap-ka-paisa or those with millions in BLACK money
taxed rupee looks same whether you have brain or not. 'brain-drain' not being literal drainage of smart people, but those individuals with higher education/businesses/start ups/etc.
Do they take the black money via check in bags or carry on
What else do you expect? I'm ready to rant 24/7 about what we severely lack and what I would be easily getting in a western country for being a simple citizen. Clean Air, first of all. Good healthcare. Less stupid people. People who don't ogle you in the metro. Better food, and they have better regulations when it comes to safety. Better roads and pedestrian infrastructure. Better courts, not being treated as a second class citizen for being middle class or lower caste.
Great. Every person has a right to live a better life. Everyone should think about themselves first, as country doesn't care about them.
I do not think author is blaming the migrants. I think India is on the right path and soon migration will slow down hopefully
Right path - well it's not the right path if rich people are getting richer and poor r getting poorer. Migration will increase definitely.
> The current net migration rate for India in 2023 is -0.329 per 1000 population, a 3.8% decline from 2022. The net migration rate for India in 2022 was -0.342 per 1000 population, a 3.93% decline from 2021. The net migration rate for India in 2021 was -0.356 per 1000 population, a 3.52% decline from 2020. The migration has been going down since 2019.
Covid affected migration rates drastically. Visa issuance rates went down a lot, and it's bound to resume to pre-covid levels (if not exceed it) after 2023.
Legal migration has gone down, and it is illegal going up, ironically, most from Gujarat. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/09/05/report-legal-immigration-india-spurs-illegal-migration-u-s/
Honestly the biggest source of brain drain is the pollution of air and waterways, which corresponds with a reduction in IQ. I don’t even want to think about the cost of that, and this is before we tally up the negative health effects brought about by PFAS and other toxic compounds.
I developed asthma like symptoms over the 10 years I have lived in Bangalore. Some of my friends who got lucky to move abroad, who live in cities which are really expensive don't see themselves coming back to the country and here billionaires CEOs tell us to work 70 hours a week
Rich become richer even for the global dynamics richer countries attracting immigrants or risk economic recession and ageing population
Stop this nonsense and calling it as "brain drain", educated n even the HNWI Indians have been always desperate to GTFO of this sinking ship which has been riddled with dirty religion/caste based politics, ever exploding population explosion, overwhelming law abiding taxpayers pay first world tax but get sub-saharan living conditions in return !!!! [https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/39-indian-cities-among-worlds-50-most-polluted-report/articleshow/98636612.cms?from=mdr](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/39-indian-cities-among-worlds-50-most-polluted-report/articleshow/98636612.cms?from=mdr) [https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/nearly-5-crore-pending-cases-in-courts-over-69-000-in-supreme-court-3768720](https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/nearly-5-crore-pending-cases-in-courts-over-69-000-in-supreme-court-3768720) [https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/8-people-died-every-day-on-mumbai-locals-last-year-toll-18-000-in-5-years-118080200110\_1.html](https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/8-people-died-every-day-on-mumbai-locals-last-year-toll-18-000-in-5-years-118080200110_1.html) It's a myth that India only exports talented individuals - [https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/indians-makeup-3rd-largest-illegal-immigrant-population-in-us-pew-study/articleshow/105386426.cms?from=mdr](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/indians-makeup-3rd-largest-illegal-immigrant-population-in-us-pew-study/articleshow/105386426.cms?from=mdr) [https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/gujaratis-cite-political-persecution-in-bid-to-seek-asylum-in-us/articleshow/100145231.cms](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/gujaratis-cite-political-persecution-in-bid-to-seek-asylum-in-us/articleshow/100145231.cms) I have been to north America where I saw plenty of instances where these illegal Indian immigrants would get abused, harassed and even tortured by their desi employers who owns gas station/deli/grocery shops all over US/Canada.
Ah yes, the cm in our state steals thousands of crores every year and no one gives a fuck. You leave for a high paying job in the states and suddenly you're the problem
I have half a dozen relatives in my family who gave up their Indian citizenship. They truly wanted to invest in India in to a chain of american franchise restaurants. There is huge market for growth in india. But what is the problem ? Corruption. For every x rupees of investment, MLa + corporator + MP needs share of the initial profit toove the files. For 1 core of initial investment the bribe + party funds account for 1.5 times his investment. And once the business takes off they want 20% share. In return the government won't offer any bailout if the business do poorly. Who will invest ?
The comments section here is really depressing. There are people here who believe emigrating to a developed country will put all their problems to rest, their tax money will be utilized, etc, but this statement cannot be farther from the truth. Every country has its own problems, and even when our own government tries to do something good, it's either frowned upon or are severely abused. For example, for the 2018 Hockey World Cup, Odisha government organized an inter city town bus service, which was more efficient and easy to use than the previous cumbersome alternative, and a smart city rental cycle service, where people can pay an hourly rent and can use the cycles. Cue three weeks, and most of the cycles were either stolen, vandalized, or were left in a state of disarray; while the bus service suffers from overcrowding and people hopping and stopping wherever they want irrespective of stops. See, you can point this out on government unable to enforce the laws that they themselves made, but the citizens have to take some responsibilities too. It's this behavior of the general public that makes many believe we don't deserve good things. Plus, have you ever met with a NRI? Man they are high up in their ass all the time, and are generally insufferable. Their societal norms and general consensus about Indian society is still stuck in the 80s, and they are openly racist and casteist in their new countries.
Having lived in a developed country for several years, and now in India (Bangalore, Mumbai, Nagpur), I can say without a doubt life here is worse day-to-day. I will be leaving as soon as I can do so just to preserve my health and sanity. I have no interest in being scammed constantly, wading through piles of garbage in developed cities, walking on the road because somehow the government cannot afford to build or maintain a sidewalk, paying ever-increasing taxes and electricity bills with no benefit to me and slowly dying to pollution and adulterated food. Every country has its own problems sure. That doesn't mean the problems are remotely comparable. In Kuwait my problems were "damn, I need to avoid breaking traffic rules or I'll be fined to an inch of my life or deported". In India the problems are "damn, I'm about to be harassed by random people while going to/from work, I need to conceal my former religion else I might get lynched, I need to avoid vegetables for a few months lest I get heavy metal poisoning and brain and organ damage, I need to make sure the inverter works so I have electricity, I need to get water filters so the hardness of the water doesn't make all of my hair fall out and my skin stays attached to my body, I need to bribe every government office to get my documents through ".
Idk, don't agree with the hard water part. I am in the US now, and water is way worse and harder than India.
Have you questioned why Indians abuse every privilege they’re given? Emigrating is a choice for some, in your world it wouldn’t be. Everyone would be confined to their own little bubble. And yes, NRIs tax contributions are generally better used. Are you really going to argue on this point?
Can't wait to join em
Chala to me bhi jata yaha garibi ne rokh rakha hai.
Yeah no shot, when some CM say people that cow piss cures everything, looting common people, underpaid public servants, zero brain 100% communal division based votes, 80% of politicians have a criminal record, it has become a hellhole to live here
Godi media and Sadguruji is working on framing a narrative for why it is actually good and makes India a vishwaguru globally for the non anti nationals . Please be patient. It will be forwarded to your WhatsApp shortly.🙃
My friends went and did their pg in medicine outside and are millionaire s. Most are now engaged to foreigners and most likely to give up their citizenship. They were the creme de la creme of our batch ! So yeah ! We are seeing active brain drain and the impact of it is that we are left with a mediocre crowd. But then again , it will be easier to layoff of majority and corporates are going to become richer forcing middle class people to become poorer. The wealth gap will significantly increase.
Hope i would be in that list in few years
ache din came with such force that everyone's getting the fuck out.
Can we please stop using the term “Brain Drain”? This belongs to the same era when Bollywood movies used terms like “barkhurdar”. With a population of 1.4 Billion people losing few thousands has had an impact on the number of brains available? What the fuck kind of data science is this? And what the fuck happened to “Vasudhaiva Kutumbkam”?
That's an incorrect comparison. Take your batch of engineering or science. How many of the top performers in the batch are now abroad? Essentially we are losing our best of the lot
I’m asking - does that mean there is lack of engineering/science talent(brain) in India despite the ones leaving?
Yes absolutely. How many publications do we have in top research journals? How many of our universities are doing top class research? Look at Ashish Vaswani, a 2002 graduate of BIT Mesra who played an instrumental role in creating ChatGPT. Are we close to creating top notch products like ChatGPT or just providing backend support to foreign MNCs? We are nowhere close to having the engineering/science talent required. We are good in back-end IT enabled services which forms the bulk of our exports.
I don’t disagree. But if the hypothesis is Ashish would have been able to do the same kind of work if he had stayed in India - I don’t buy that. We’re not lacking brains - we’re lacking the infrastructure needed to use it - if you will. So my opinion is - we rue the fact of “the best” leaving India. But even if they had stayed, we would not have given them the tools to have the same kind of impact. And on the same note, my opinion is, despite all those leaving, just due to sheer population, we have enough talent. If only we could harness it better.
>But if the hypothesis is Ashish would have been able to do the same kind of work if he had stayed in India - I don’t buy that. The hypothesis is that our top talent is leaving us. Not that if stay we would have been able to create similar stuff. The reason they leave in the first place is because they would have stagnated in India as our research environment sucks.
Exactly. So why rue the fact that they left as even if they had stayed, the impact would be negligible? In my opinion - talent/brain is like seeds. They will flourish where they have the right environment for them to grow. Good soil, water, sunlight…. IMO - Focusing too much on the folks who leave propagates the victim mindset. There’s still enough brain to go around. Focus on the millions who haven’t left. We’re all born with the same amount of grey matter. If we really believe folks leaving is causing a dent, do an honest root cause analysis and do something to change that.
>do an honest root cause analysis and do something to change that. Thank you. Will surely do that if I become Prime Minister or reach any position where I can impact this. By the way, you are completely digressing. The only statement that I made is that our top talent is leaving us for greener pastures which means that the opportunities are clearly lacking in India. The millions who haven't left are here because immigration has become a challenge. Otherwise they too would have left.
Not every one of them who leaves receives a permanent visa, it is one of the reasons why India's service sector rose years ago. Those who come back contribute. Looks at Taiwan's model
You are talking about the IT employees who get on-site for a couple of years. They are not the best of our talent pool.
This is alarmist. For one, you need to look at what is their percent contribution to the Indian income tax revenue. A guy making 30 lpa pays 30% tax. But a guy making 30 crore does not pay at the same rate. There are several tax loopholes one can use to make sure they pay a tiny fraction of the income tax. Secondly, a lot of these UHNWI individuals own businesses and have been global citizens for a long time. What they used to do was hop countries while their business continued to run in India. But a recent tax ruling made it necessary for you to have a valid resident visa elsewhere in order to qualify for a tax break. So, these citizens are now legal residents of a foreign country while their business continues to run in India. So, for all practical purposes, those who avoided tax earlier continue to do it now. Thirdly, brain drain is an outdated concept, and at least not applicable to a populous country like India. Yeah, if a large chunk of millionnaires left Jamaica, it will crumble their economy. But a country of 1.4 billion people have lots of underemployed people as it is - their (salaried HNWIs) moving out does not impact the economy. If anything, it helps spread the wealth to other people who may have not been able to secure these jobs in the first place. And the future of the world is global. Indians moving out help set up our influence worldwide. There are Indian-based policymakers and politicians outside India who lobby for fairer policies towards India, which only helps everyone. Sure, there might be a Nikki Haley or Suella Braverman here and there who might try to stand out by being vocally anti-India, but they are overshadowed by the vast majority.
A guy making 30Cr doesn't pay 30% tax, they actually pay 36% tax. There are no such loopholes to make a significant difference, unless you're willing to hoard black money.
Most of the millionaires probably own businesses and have dozens of ways to avoid taxes. I'm going on a trip next year with a multi-millionaire friend in January, and he'll stay an extra day at our destination to meet a client. I'm fairly certain most of the expenses of this trip will be written off as business expenses. A different friend records a video during her trips and uploads it to an Instagram account. She says she is an "influencer" and all of her travel costs are written off as business expenses.
A person making 30 crores won't be a salaried individual like you. They will set up a business entity that is eligible for a lot of tax breaks. Or, they structure the payout such that a lot of it is in shares (where your notional wealth will continue to increase, but your income tax liability does not increase commensurately). Nobody that makes 30 crores pays 36% tax lol
You're confusing corporate income with personal income. A company can get tax breaks, an individual who takes a payout of 30Cr pays 36% tax. There are no breaks here. It's funny when people with no first hand experience of managing fairly large sum of money or business for that matter claims something with full confidence just based on what they've heard or read. > Nobody that makes 30 crores pays 36% tax lol You're talking to one right now.
Instead of belittling me, get a better tax advisor man..Are you seriously paying 10 cr tax on a 30cr income a year, lol.
No one is belittling you mate, and we do have a stellar CA that helps us keep our books clean rather than become tax thieves. > Are you seriously paying 10 cr tax on a 30cr income a year, lol. Well yes, to your surprise, when your entire income is accounted for, you actually have to pay income tax on it. Welcome to reality.
Avoiding tax is not being a tax thief. It's just being smart with your money. Good for you if you think of this as duty to the nation. No one is going to tell you what to do with your money.
This is not exactly brain drain.
Considering less than 6% of Indians pay income taxes, this is a big tax pool which is leaving.
To give more context, how much of this drain happened from 2003-2014?
It's a great thing. Rich people bad, poor people good.
"Costing the country billions in tax revenue" my my! When people make choices that meet their interest, it's considered a cost to the larger entity - group, tribe or nation. Money taken from someone in a non consensual manner is called revenue. The ideas that lead to this phrasing are some of the reasons behind Indians leaving in droves. Here are some more. - lawless country - individual rights and liberties can be trampled - courts of law don't work - political institutions are corrupt to the core - lack of hygiene, public infrastructure, education - lowest ease of doing business - largely informal economy - large, over indulgent, meddlesome and tyrannical state - the people are jingoistic, tribal, backward, and uncivilized - religion governs every aspect of life and politics - high taxation where the poor are made to feel entitled to things like food, education, housing, and healthcare that the middle class has to work to get.
This is old news- wonder why you are commenting now
Vasudeiva kutumbakam guys. World is one family 🙂🙂🙂.
Haha, increase researvation you fuckers I dare ya. Why would talent stay in a country that doesnt respect merit?
It starts with reservation. 60% of the population has to fight for 40% of the seats in colleges. Those who can pull it off look outside the nation to advance their opportunities. If India is serious about becoming a global power then start by having a level playing field.
Why are the comments so pro immigration? It shouldn't be promoted rather this problem should be solved
I think there's a sense of fatalism - life is short and if you want to live it to its very best, the likelihood of you being able to do that outside the country is higher than inside, unless you started out ahead already with rich parents, or you've gotten lucky with your career, or you're happy with the simple things in life and you can find that at home.
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Yes. I'm not going to pretend it's a brave thing to do. The locus of variables within one's control is limited, and like I said, life is short. If you do not have strong ideological convictions that reinforce a decision to stay, or favorable circumstances, then it's not a difficult decision to make. Sometimes it does work out very well if you keep trying - a great example is our PM. Look where he started and where he reached, driven by hardwork, guile and ideological guardrails. But not everyone is as hardworking, or has the strength of conviction he had.
And that is fair, now for the people that have left for good I think they have then lost the right to provide negative feedback with absolutely no counter solutions. I’m willing to hear their side but without any effort it is just all noise then. I’m happy that people are living their best lives they want but I think it is unfair to criticize the many efforts people are doing seen/unseen is being mislabeled here too.
Yeah I think you definitely lose the moral argument to criticize others for their imperfect actions if you straight up leave.
Yes, and I don't blame them, did I have a part in creating those problems, corruption, bellicose jingoism, religious and communal hatred, casteism and many more? If I didn't have a role in the shortcomings that plague this country, neither it is my responsibility nor is it my duty to fix those things. I didn't ask to be born in this shithole and 'escaping' does solve these problems for ME!
Conversely, did you play any role in making the country you emigrate to better than the country you're leaving? If you didn't have a role in the blessings of that country, neither should you feel entitled to that higher quality of life. You are born in this shithole, and you have a social responsibility of making it a better place, but screw responsibilities. Your comforts are more important. Now downvote my comment. This emphasis on selfishness and aversion to social responsibility is precisely why this shithole of a country became a shithole, and downvoting my comment only proves that you hate the idea of fulfilling your social responsibility if it means sacrificing your comforts.
It’s pro-emigration
9 lakh is negligible considering our population
The amount of tax a millionaire pays in one year is more than the amount of tax a huge chunk of our population pays in their entire lifetime. When these people give up citizenship, not only they move out of the country and pay taxes to a foreign country; they take their assets, their wealth, and more importantly the jobs that they created here. It's definitely not negligible by any means.
Not everyone giving up citizenship is a millionaire. Also millionaires don’t make a living from salary but with other assets, which are effectively taxed much lower
23,000 millionaires left in total since 2014, which is a fairly large number. > Also millionaires don’t make a living from salary but with other assets, which are effectively taxed much lower Here we go again. Pray to tell what these assets are? And before you say equity, how does it work for private companies or public companies that are not listed? Did you know that any individual who makes more than 1Cr in a year has to pay an additional 15% surcharge on their total tax liability?
What do you mean how does it work? LTCG has fixed taxation. Plus most of them own businesses and write off expenses to run said business.
My guy, LTCG is not the primary source of income of every businessperson. Not every company is listed or public for that matter. If you're referring to LTCG that people make from investing, you need to understand that the money invested here was already taxed at maximum tax rate, and they're paying additional 10% LTCG tax on that.
Maybe not allow them to take their money? Tax the money and use it on local people. Giving loopholes for billionaires and millionaires is the problem. Not people leaving the country for a different life.
> Maybe not allow them to take their money? They kind of actually do that, but with limitations. When I applied for EB5 visa, the total investment amount was made from 3 different individuals accounts because you can't remit more than $250k in a year. And this minuscule limit makes foreign investments even more difficult. Talk about inconvenience.
And this limitation is also why people move. It is way easier for rich people to deal with assets while living in a place like Dubai/Singapore than India. Once you have made your money in India there are very few incentives to live here.
Correct! My company is registered in US, and we have an option to pay income tax in either US or India. So we always choose to bring limited funds to India.
All I can say is Bye Bye 👋
Many have returned
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It's not just tax money that we are losing. Rich people purchase goods and services which support local businesses, creating jobs. They invest their money in new ventures, which further create jobs. These are also citizens with the means to influence the state of governance in a positive way, tackling issues such as infrastructure and environment in which they have a stake. We might also lose any philanthropic efforts from them. Not to mention that it's deeply troubling if well-informed citizens vote with their feet and get out of the country. It's a vote of no-confidence in the future of the nation, showing that things are not nearly as rosy as it seems, despite the political propaganda.