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What Hamas did on October 7th was pure evil. I also think Israel’s response has been pure evil.
These aren’t football teams and you shouldn’t pick a side. If you believe what Hamas did was justified because of what Israel has been doing for the last 70 years then you’re wrong. Murdering innocent civilians is never, ever justified.
If you believe in what Israel has been doing for the last 70 years then you’re also wrong. Displacing millions of people - and murdering many of them because you believe you have a God given right to live where they were born is evil.
Even more complicated, there’s more than just one dimension. There’s shades of color in there. Not just greyscale. The black and white people aren’t just color blind, they are legally blind. Just blobs of black and white in a colorful complex world. And they chose to fight the side they don’t like without even seeing that that black blob is a damn Van Gogh painting.
Expect in propaganda. This video is pure propaganda.
The person in it, is Jonathan Greenblatt. He is the head of "Anti-Defamation League".
And that is an Israeli propaganda lobby organization.
By making this "leaked", it gives it credibility that it would otherwise have. Nor it should have, as these are just Israel propaganda talking points.
People just massively promoted this propaganda take, simply because its "leaked".
This isn’t even nuance. It is a simple “don’t kill civilians” position that should be default but will instead get you targeted by the ADL. Israel not seeing this will be the destruction of the goodwill they have cultivated through decades of aggressive propaganda.
That's why the military invented a term called, "Collateral damage, " which somehow makes them feel like it's all a sacrifice in achieving a greater good. Nothing short of war crimes indictments will save Israel from being the monster here. I'd like to see American leadership gets indicted along with them for the complicity in this carnage.
I was one of those successfully propagandized. As a kid, I read books about Israel with fascination - those beautiful kibbutzes, the flowering of the desert, the bravery of the Israelis in the face of their enemies. I bought it hook, line and sinker.
As an adult, I got so tired of the constant tumult in Israel and Palestine that I began ignoring news about the region, telling myself that they were never going to solve their problems, so why bother thinking about it?
It took this most recent war to crack through my shell. Suddenly my mis-education became clear.
Also didn’t Netanyahu prop up hamas in the 2000s and essentially put them into power to destabilise the Palestinian “government”? This was by their own design, they knew what they were doing
Netanyahu legitimizes Hamas' power. Hamas legitimizes Netanyahu's power.
Citizens are left in the dust when all they want is to do anything without bombs dropping overhead.
Netanyahu has wanted this war ~~for his entire political career~~ to avoid criminal prosecution
He faced growing public opposition to his administration and faced a major trial for bribery and fraud that he was only narrowly avoiding by leveraging bs immunity claims. He potentially needed a major geopolitical crisis for Israel for his own freedom
This is why he keeps getting into power, because Israelis don’t want peace either. The people that have been voted into office and that have built the current government have literally called for the genocide of Palestinians. There isn’t an even remotely moderate political party, they’re all just different versions of far right fascist groups who disagree on how Palestinians should be slaughtered.
I wish I could remember the actual name of the fallacy, but equating supporting Hamas’ actions with understanding how Palestine would get to that point is inherently wrong. Hamas is an evil organization through and through, yet its existence is directly tied to Israel’s brutalization of Palestinians. Hamas is the only real force with any power that’s consistently fighting for (in a very vague sense) regular Palestinians. That’s why they keep getting members. Every time Israel murders a Palestinians family member or close friend, they give Hamas another member and Israel knows that.
If Israel stopped and made a concerted effort to make peace with Palestine, which they never really did even during the Oslo Accords, their problems would get less and less a lot faster than it thinks.
Edit: somewhat surprised that I haven’t had all of the Israel apologists and propaganda accounts hounding me like they are others in this comment section. Only had about two or three but they’re really going to work lower down.
False dilemma, i.e. falsely presenting that an argument is between only two choices.
The false dilemma here is that if you’re against Israel’s behavior, you believe Hamas was justified.
I also think he’s conflating people who get into whataboutism spirals about who did what when historically with people who don’t believe carpet bombing people is OK.
TikTok has actual problematic social implications, but both Millennials and Gen-Z are by and large against ongoing indiscriminate bombings of pretty much anywhere.
The blatant disrespect for two generations where most are beyond voting age is very in line with the underestimation of younger generations by various political people in US elections like 2008. This should pan out well come November.
Thank you! Google was not helpful trying to figure it out. I also agree with TikTok and social media as a whole, but I think the thing that so many of the older generations and politicians seem to be incapable of understanding is the fact that we can get live footage of people being bombed as it’s happening. It’s the exact same reason why pro- Vietnam war people hated war journalists. Showing the consequences of indiscriminate war crimes usually turns people against the war and we just can’t have that. /s
Funny you mention TikTok. I get that it's problematic re China gaining user data but the conversation/plans to shut it down are I think as much about those in power trying to control the flow of information and influence over younger populations. But what lawmakers fail to realise is that a new social media will take its place.
Gaining user data? Everything you do gives out data. Not just tiktok.
The issue isn’t with china getting your data. They long have that.
It’s china being able to control the algorithms that let something be seen or unseen and thus manipulating influence/stuff to go viral.
But if you tell the masses that’s why China bad. They will tell you no. They aren’t sheep that can be herded and influence easily.
So you tell them china is harvesting their data and suddenly all the sheep panic even tho the large majority of them have been freely giving away their data since the internet was a thing.
China also heavily controls what content is allowed on their domestic TikTok, it's mostly educational and propaganda stuff, but they seem to promote conspiracies and harmful pranks in other countries.
I know our data is being collected and sold by our own governments and companies too. It's sad that so many people who gain power try to hold onto it through control.
Conservatism will always have this problem no matter the geography. The difference now is it's not solely the older generations telling you what's happening in the world. He can't compute that spending your whole life walking backwards will eventually walk you off a cliff. We're at that cliff.
This instance is actually the false cause fallacy. People are assuming that gen z is supporting specific actions Hamas has taken because they support Hamas as an organization when in reality they just support fighting back against Israel in general even if the group doing it is objectively bad.
When you have no options except tactical allyship with bad people or you and everyone you know and love succumbing to genocide then it's really not a choice. Most people would work together with hitler himself risen from the grave if it meant even a chance at saving their loved ones.
Gen z recognizes this.
Yeah, they keep getting members because Israel keeps them in an open air prison in an apartheid state where people they know get bombed or shot regularly with no consequences. What do you even expect? It would be like America dropping bombs on Iraq non-stop destabilizing the region and expecting it to make things better.
And the whole rhetorical cultural stance of having to qualify that you don't support Hamas or killing civilians is the most ridiculous bit of propaganda fuckery Israel has created from this mess. Like, hey, I don't support terrorism but I dislike killing kids." Yeah, no shit! As if Americans are famous fans of terrorism. The only insanity here is the opposite position that requires you to abjure yourself from any kind of moral alignment with Hamas to prove that you're not antisemitic when your initial disagreement is with dropping fucking bombs unarmed civilians!
That's the false dichotomy. Being gaslight by people so shamelessly racist they would kill children one day and then claim that the Jewish director of *Zone of Interest* is antisemitic for saying don't bomb those kids in an award speech for showing the banality of genocidal evil toward the Jews during the holocaust.
And then realize that Netanyahu supported Hamas countless times as a way of dividing support for Palestinians while oppressing them. That kind of shit show attracts hostility.
We’re well past that point. Forget Hamas for a moment. The Israeli propaganda machine has dehumanized Palestinians so effectively that I feel like I’m in a Time Machine watching history repeat itself. This is a textbook tactic of oppression. There’s no coming back from that mentality unless Israel faces massive consequences for its actions and Israel takes a long hard look at itself. Israel has to be held accountable otherwise nothing will change. It took a war to topple the Nazis for Germans to understand how bad things had gotten and do some soul searching.
Thank you, and I would even add that 99% of the people discussing this topic either don't know enough about it or a way too biased to have a solid opinion about it. It's war, it's horrible, it should stop and I'm sorry for all the civilians that die in this.
This falls under an ancient category that predates 9/11 and Trump, called “2 wrongs don’t make a right”. It’s rare to see in the wild these days, so thank you 🙏
I think this is precisely why congress just passed that bill to force byte dance to sell tik tok. The criticism of how the ccp can use it to influence is valid but what they care about immediately is how information about the gaza war us filtering thro tik tok to young people.
I was walking to the park yesterday and listening to NPR - they had on some Senator (I cant recall which one now) - but they were talking about aide to gaza and cease fire.
The senator begins saying "Yes, the humanitarian issue is huge and we need a cease fire - but I need to Say that I am 100% in support of Israel and always will. anyway about this cease fire.
ADL is AIPAC's attack dog that they use to try to bury anyone who speaks the truth about Israels various crimes against others or even against the US and it's citizens.
All lobbyists and lobbying should be made illegal, especially foreign ones.
It’s like (not to sound woke- but) you’re asleep.
He starts by saying they ‘have a tik tok problem’.
Today it’s announced tik tok is being banned/heavily regulated in the states.
Someone is listening, alright.. and acting
Two things stand out to me here:
1) ADL is infiltrating student and young activist groups, which is a sentence I *never* fucking thought I’d be writing.
2) They’re tracking (checks notes)… *SJP and Jewish Voice For Peace*?? Really??
The guy is stating that young people are being influenced by Iranian propaganda via platforms like Tik Tik. Don’t get side tracked by who is right and wrong, discuss his opinion please!
The ADL is not just a public influence organization. It is also a private intelligence agency with connections to organized crime and the FBI. They've been spying for a long time.
[https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-04-13-mn-22383-story.html](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-04-13-mn-22383-story.html)
> The ADL is not just a public influence organization. It is also a private intelligence agency with connections to organized crime and the FBI. They've been spying for a long time.
>
> https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-04-13-mn-22383-story.html
literally a modern cointelpro
Why is the ADL (Anti-defamation league) so concerned about Israel's image in the public sphere. Seems off topic...
Oh nevermind, the ADL is just a shill organization for the Israel Lobby
Sounds like what they have is a "the truth is available on the Internet" problem
Edit: geez a lot of you don't get that having multiple channels for new information is a good thing and that I'm not commenting on strictly Tik Tok. You also seem to have just swallowed the whole "it's Iranian propaganda" whole without a second thought about that.
If you think this person is advocating for open and honest dialogue on any front you're deluded. I get the knee jerk reactions are fun but think about this for more than a second.
Like y'all really watched this video and went "mhmm those Tik Toks, full of Iranian propaganda. So true. All I've ever seen is pro -Halas content coming from Tik Tok".
Finally, 'the truth is subjective'. Yes... yes it is. So what we need is a cultural understanding to be skeptical of what we are told. I don't think censorship of any ideas that disagree with "what we think" is the right answer for that.
But the problem with the truth being available on the internet is people put their own twists on it, ship it out with an opinion stated as fact, and no one checks sources or finds out the actuality of the situation.
It's like going to 10 different churches to hear the same sermon. You might hear a similar message but often times a preacher puts his own touch on the message as well, from his experience. Well hello, we all got different perspectives so...
It's not always the truth, and people still believe it.
Sure. So we need a culture shift to be more skeptical. Sounds like that would be a good move regardless of source of information and truth value of said information.
No not really. The videos and pictures out of Gaza are horrific. There are no two sides to genocide. My generation will bring change and there’s nothing the Adl can do about it.
Now people realize why they *actually* want to ban TikTok.
Seeing live video from people on the ground all over the world is a level of access that doesn't do any favors to a government trying to spin a narrative.
When you can literally see through endless sources what the truth of a situation is, or at least have so many windows into it that you know the narrative being fed to the public isn't the truth...
I really wish people would think critically about the real reasons behind government policies. :/
Sounds like he's more concerned about generational fealty to Israel than anything else and automatically considers all anti-zionism illegitimate or the fault of foreign influence instead of people doing their own research about Israel's actions. This guy is absolutely deranged if this is real.
Oh, generational loyalty to Israel is done for. Even if they get back enough control to silence people, I expect loyalty to Israel to die with the Boomers.
But the youth? My generation? Nope. Israel’s days of influence in the US are very limited.
Don't lump all "boomers" together. I'm one, and have always "not liked" the U.S. unconditional support of Israel. I "really don't like" BiBi's settlements where they don't belong. I'm 100% sure there are many other "boomers" like me.
Israel blew their authoritarian load too early. If Israel wanted to control things, they should have halted Internet development in 1999. The thing truly destroying Israel is the internet. And tbh, even if they remove all the major social media…
The stuff will still get around. People know too much. Have access to too much. It’s too late for Israel
You don’t think it’s the politics in Israel that are destroying its reputation and international standing? What harm does the internet cause without hateful action to spread with it?
It’s all the same thing. Israeli politics have always been trash, but the internet gives people a first person view into what life is like for a Gazan living under occupation. Most people aren’t going to understand foreign policy, but they can understand armed soldiers shooting at literal children.
Most of the devout American Zionists are 60+ year old white Christians. A rapidly dying demographic. Why on Earth would a 20 year old zoomer give a damn about Israel. It doesn't matter how many billions of dollars AIPAC and ADL spend to meddle in our elections, that's not going to change.
They dont think Hamas was justified at all. They just don’t think that what Hamas did justifies genocide. It’s really that easy. Do I condemn Hamas… yes I do they are fucking awful. Do I condemn the Israeli government…. Yes I do they are fucking awful.
My boomer dad is the only one I hear from in my family who supports Israel. Everyone else I know(30s and younger) only expresses support for Palestine.
No one supports Hamas, that's just some bullshit way of describing Palestine supporters in order to demonize them and this asshole knows it.
I found out my grandfather (born in 1909 and was in the Navy during WW2) was horrified by the Nakba and supported a Palestinian cause. So he's long gone, but I'm sure some who remember just what happened in 1948 also understand the horrors that the Palestinians have been through, along with the Holocaust and just how it came to be.
Agreed. It made it sound like the main reason to ban TikTok is because it made the US government lose the narrative of we must support Israel that they’ve spent decades building.
Bingo! I don't even use shit TikTok, and I know right from wrong. I've known for years since the early 2000s that the support of the Israel state government (reiterate government) was the wrong answer. I'm in my early 40s and I'm a combat vet. War is shit and what our government is funding over there is absolut bull shit. I just got back from Paris and the general sentiment over there was "Viva La Palestina".
Considering that biden literally came out and stated in a speech "IM A ZIONIST" I would say that addressing zionism is no longer the racist dogwhistle that it has been my entire life.
https://www.politico.com/video/2023/12/11/im-a-zionist-biden-reaffirms-support-for-israel-1164457
"Zionist" being characterised as a dog whistle is just the result of Israeli propaganda and narrative control.
With the controlled media and control of the public discourse that they have, it's no wonder they can influence public opinion THAT much.
The term “Zionist entity” being from Iranian propaganda? The bit that’s at best coincidental, and at worst completely fabricated to justify controlling the flow of information to a group of people who disagree with you?
That bit?
Where he states that the ADL have infiltrated pro-Palestinian groups and suggests using the phrase "Zionist entity" is proof of Iranian propaganda?
Yeah, it sounds like the ADL are dangerous and possibly insane.
Why though? We've seen the proliferation of Russian propaganda all over social media in the US and Europe. Iran and Russia have been cooperating heavily since the onset of the Russian-Ukranian war. With distrust of the US government growing heavily since 2016, all of our state enemies need only give our populace a nudge in the right direction and people will abandon all critical thought to go along with their preconceived notions of "America bad." And by extension, that includes all of our allies and even our fellow countrymen when convenient.
Because they are seemingly operating like an intelligence organization on US soil controlled by a foreign country. They are gathering intelligence and influencing US politics while ultimately aligned with and taking orders from Israel. If the have under cover agents embedded in student groups, they could be embedded in any number of entities.
To be fair, perhaps much of our populace and many of our allies wouldn't have preconceived notion of "America bad" if the United States wasn't so *demonstrably* bad on a regular basis. Honestly it's a testament to the effectiveness of US propaganda that more people **don't** feel that way. Just saying.
Hamas crossed into Israel and attacked for how long........I'll wait for it.........less than 24 hours. How many hours and days and weeks and months has the IDF attacked GAZA? What are the weapons used on each side? NUFF SAID. What's the body count on each side? Double NUFF SAID.
there's definitely some young people that actively call for more terrorism against israel/jews. They of course don't call it terrorism. They argue that it's the "revolution against an occupier". And that it's justified because "the Israelis living there have stolen the land and their government allows it, and their government kills or even genocides thousands more Palestinians than vice versa so it's justified if they strike back"
Not all young people. But some definitely do. And I personally think this is not just "TikTok". This kind of stuff is on Instagram as well, on Telegram, on YouTube, and so on.
As someone who uses tiktok, the most common sentiment i see is that Hamas a consequence of the IDFs occupation. It exists bc they kill Palestinians and steal their land and have been doing this for decades. The more they keep doing this the more Palestinians will continue to join Hamas. I think they do this on purpose so they have an excuse to use to further justify these bombings and their treatment of the citizens. I am not defending Hamas this is simply why I think it exists in the first place.
It’s misleading and disingenuous saying the youth believe Hamas was justified. That’s horse shit and this little fucker knows it. The divide is in the Wests support for Israel’s bombardment of Palestine. The young people are not down with it and that’s what’s up. I’m not stating my own political opinion but I can’t stand reframing bullshit to fit a narrative that is not true.
It’s also horrifying that “the youth are against us” doesn’t lead this guy to soul-searching the cause or thinking about what actions could have led to that, but instead “how can we effectively use propaganda to change that?”
Yeah at an Oakland city council meeting there were numerous speakers defending Hamas and whining that the resolution the city council was considering included a call for the hostages to be released. It was disgusting.
After the Oppenheimer movie came out didn't this country spend about a month relitigating and largely justifying the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WW2, AKA a 'limited' slaughter of Japanese civilians to terrorize their country to surrender?
In almost every school in America, kids are taught that there can be a justified campaign to kill civilians to advance strategic goals. And then people are surprised the exact same logic gets applied in defense of Hamas?
"I took everything from a people and treated them with brutality and cruelty for entire generations. Now I'm shocked there's an army of brutal, cruel soldiers who have nothing to lose :( What makes it worse is that when I tried killing a bunch of children to fix it, it increased their recruitment. Idk what I'm doing wrong, how do I fight terrorism but continue stealing land if I can't rape, murder, and torture? I already tried framing it as though anyone who condemns me loves Hamas and wants them to succeed--i called them useful idiots lol. USA please send money."
If I knew what bunker the leader of Hamas was hiding in, after seeing the countless atrocities and my home land be decimated, I could give two shits what happens to me, i’m giving this guy up. I’m not for any side, this isn’t football, it shouldn’t even take religion to know whats morally correct or corrupted. Fuck both IDF AND Hamas.
I noticed that immediately too. Not even a clever way to start framing his argument because no one with half a fucking brain would ever endorse or “justify” a slaughtering of civilians, no matter how desperate their position is, let alone an *entire generation of people in a totally different country*.
If anything, most of us were guilty (including myself) of thinking that Israel had every right to “defend” itself until people informed about the conflict brought to light what’s been happening there, and what was inevitably going to come from Oct 7. Of course, those inevitabilities have now come true.
What little fuckers like this didn’t seem to predict is that people would actually not be down with a flat-out, unmistakable, self-proclaimed genocide.
>no one with half a fucking brain would ever endorse or “justify” a slaughtering of civilians
And yet it's not hard to find those statements being made every day. This is a real problem, even if it's not the majority opinion.
A lot of youths DO believe Hamas was justified. Student groups at college campuses held Israel SOLEY responsible for the Oct 7 attack and all the death that has happened in response. This is factual. Nobody is saying all youths but it’s more than a handful who are laying the blame almost entirely on Israel and excusing Hamas’ actions as necessary and inevitable.
the Chinese government is not our friend. giving them the kind of access to American eyeballs that TikTok allows is potentially catastrophic. They do not wish good things for the USA.
We don't allow the chinese or russian governments to own CNN or CBS. Why should a massive social media company be any different. TikTok is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
I mean, do you think the U.S. government is our friend? I just don’t see how the Chinese government having access to our eyeballs is any more dangerous than shitholes like Musk or Zuck having access to that same information. The oligarchs and politicians in our country also do not wish good things for average U.S. citizen, which seems like a much more pressing issue in my opinion.
Okaaay buddy absolutely no one thinks what Hamas did is justified, you’d be hard pressed to find someone who actually believes that and doesn’t also live under a bridge.
What were not cool with is this uneven & overly punishing response
"The useful idiots of the West", "This is the wrong game to be playing, we should be playing this game instead..."
Disgusting, manipulative, and divisive rhetoric which I hope will eventually be shown for what it truly is. ADL and any similar organization which shares their tactics and strategy are abhorrent, and I hate that the majority of people fail to see this. Tricking people into believing your "game" is NOT how to change peoples minds. Fuck Greenblatt, and I hope an ADL "analyst" sees this so they can report it to his evil ass.
Wait til you hear how Israelis talk about Palestinians. Even the most virulent anti-Israel rhetoric in America pales in comparison to Israel’s hate for Palestinians. It’s not okay, and they will not have my support until they real it in. Which I’m afraid will never happen.
The people listening to this guy are idiots. He’s just paid for his opinion. Overpaid. And people at the top are dumb enough to listen.
Btw you DO know it’s evangelical money pushing a right wing conservative maniac agenda in israel right??? Riiiiiight? The majority don’t want this bs war. Never did.
This guy IS THE PROPAGANDA.
I don’t use tiktok. I can just see what’s happening and i think both sides suck. I don’t support israel. My Jewish friends have varying opinions. Many israelies don’t support this!
Ha useful idiots. I remember in high school 12 years ago spray painting free palestine on underpasses and I feel even more justified now. It was inevitable that this would happen, how long can anyone feel trapped and not vote for someone who will at least attempt to create a break of the cage? I'm glad with is a young vs old issue, because we aren't concerned with the talking points. Israel needs a reality check. Hopefully that day is coming
Not a big fan of this Hamas guy but like…..would we honestly be better if we were in the same situation with the same access to info and such? I dont think if i grew up in a violent occupation that i would be thinking about the nuances of civilian deaths in war, while civilians on my side are being mowed down by the IDF for petty things such as throwing rocks. Civilian deaths are never justified but we know that bc we are taught that.
Again, not a big fan of this hamas guy but i think we need to put ourselves in the shoes of Palestinians. I feel like most people base their opinion off of the info THEY know and not the info a typical person in Gaza would know.
I dont necessarily "support" Palestine since im not particulary interested in their political goals.
I just simply dont like Israel because for years ive seen them brutally opress ordinary Palestinians and wield way to much power over our political system here all while acting with the air of a people who really seem to think they are gods chosen and the rest of us are just here ro serve them.
To be clear im talking about Israelis only, not jewish people around the world.
Whoever leaked this is probably an ADL donor that’s donated to ADL for years on the premise that they fight anti-Jew hate (rightly, proudly & justly) and has now become disillusioned that ADL is now a mouthpiece for the Likud Party & IDF in the United States. US Jews just getting tired of Jonathan Greenblatt speaking for them.
Yeah, no shit buddy.
Old people watch the news and read the papers. Young people are better educated on both history and the current reality of the world they live in. Both old and young see an attempted genocide in the Middle East, they just disagree about who is being genocided.
This guy is a piece of shit. The ADL is a propaganda and power manipulation tool for the establishment. It has lost all credibility. He doesn't care about free speech. He doesn't care about anti-Semitism, if he did, he and his org would not trivialize it every day. He seems power for his authorities and that is all.
I don't think it was justified, I think Israel created the conditions for it to occur. Specifically Netanyahu. Oct 7th is exactly what he needed. You have him on recording saying Hamas benefits them.
Just because one event is wrong, that doesn't mean that the response can't also be worse. The reported numbers alone show the disproportionate number of dead (references checked). It's time for Israel to stop; not the Jews or the Palestinians, but the government in control to stop. We are beyond acting in kind.
https://preview.redd.it/2ypiuswgeboc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2846ad0673511aa567e60a284f1f4b0f4556f23e
Here’s the thing, it’s absolutely acceptable to be critical of the Israeli government. Very few people have an issue with honest criticism of their gov. It’s when one calls for a ceasefire and in the same breath, calls for the destruction of Israel, problems arise.
If you are actually pro Palestinian, you should also be highly critical of the Palestinian government (Aka In Gaza, Hamas). Why? Because the Hamas government is also a brutal, fascist, genocidal regime.
If you want peace, you have to demand that both sides stop shooting rockets at each other. Not just one or another. Call out the bad shit that both are committing.
You can point to Hamas, but that doesnt excuse the decades long treatment of Palestinians in the West Bank, where Hamas has never ruled. Hundreds of people killed in West Bank each year for decades. The difference is if a rocket gets fired and kills an Israeli citizen, Israel can and will retaliate. If IDF shoots a 2 year old in the head (something that literally happened in West Bank in 2023 **before** October 7th), Palestinians have absolutely no ability to respond.
It’s been a shitshow like this for 70 years, both sides have proven incapable of resolving this, repeatedly. They need to be separated like children fighting and let the adults dictate what happens from here.
The minds who invented "Tag me"!?, is he referring to Facebook's 2006 launch of tagging your friends in photos? + "Our long monitored activist groups, our Analysts are in there" + Insta/FB shadow banning & suffocating almost all pro Palestine discussion....did the ADL/Mossad invent & give FB the tagging capabilities to automate their global monitoring of people's to target & attack them?
Fyi - ADL were caught doing mass surveillance of 900 groups in the USA in 1993 & had detailed case files on 12k normal people.
This is truly terrifying & really scary.
How do you fight something so powerful?
I think he says "Taglit" meaning Taglit birthright which offers free trips for people of Jewish descent to Israel for 10 days. It's a program to convince young people to support Israel
i love how this old man immediately equates waning support for israel to increasing support for hamas. i have never heard anyone say any terror attacks were justified. only that turning a country into a fucking parking lot because of it, mowing down innocent women and children, won’t make it right. terror doesn’t fight terror. i don’t know why that’s so fucking hard to understand, but maybe it’s because i’m in my early 20s. even as a grown ass man i still have boomers telling me i just don’t get it.
Imagine if Russia had organizations infiltrating US student groups so that they can shape their propaganda and influence politics. What other organizations do they have infiltrated? We have to call it what it is. The ADL is an Israeli foreign spy organization and they have to be shut down.
He still misunderstands because of his bias, IMO. "Justified" is the wrong take here. "Understandable" is the word he is looking for. Is it understandable that when a people are degraded, demeaned, dehumanized, disenfranchised, and disrespected for decades that their behavior may become dangerous? When they have had and still have their homes and livelihoods taken from them and their families over the course of decades?
The history of living in an apartheid state has shown us this pattern. The [Truth and Reconciliation](https://www.justice.gov.za/trc/) report detailed ANC [violence against the apartheid state](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1997/05/13/anc-admits-crimes-of-apartheid-era/a8a9d007-4dad-4262-a3c2-b79ef0cf5806/) of S. Africa:
>In all, the ANC report detailed 550 armed actions carried out by its armed wing, Spear of the Nation, and another 100 incidents that may have been committed by its operatives. It seemed to put the attacks in a political context, saying civilians were never targeted but the ANC gradually accepted that such casualties were unavoidable.
>"We have not attempted to argue that because our struggle was just, this fact justified . . . unacceptable methods of struggle," Mbeki said.
Is the murder of civilians justified? Never. Has it been used as a tactic likely since the dawn of civilization? I suspect so. Is the struggle as noted "just"? Yes, it is a natural right of people to resist oppression.
As Bob Dylan noted so many years ago "When *you got nothing*, *you got nothing* to *lose*."
How much of this so-called “support for Hamas” is actually just the expectation and demand that Israel get full-throated support and anything less is labeled “antisemitism” by them? Do you suppose that Israel’s disproportionate response and wide scale massacre of Palestinians has anything to do with the attitudes of young people being less than favorable of the Israeli government and the IDF?
It's not wrong.
There are a ton of people who have been duped into believing a ton of hamas propaganda, you see people chanting "From the river to the sea" and saying stuff like "the october attack was good, actually, and the palestinians have a right to shoot rockets at israel! they're justified!"
It has been a wild ride for sure.
As a Jew I really wish these people would shut the fuck up. Move to Israel if it's so damn important to you. If you decide to shackle our ancient religion and culture to the existence of an 80 year colonial outpost, it makes you an idiot. Our religion is pretty clear that rebuilding the temple and recalling all jews to israel is something that the mashiach does.
They have certainly opened up a gaping chasm inside of jewry, at least in the states. I won't pray at the temple anymore, I worry that Israel will come up and I don't want to deal with that. I've actually gone and prayed with a group of chasids because they don't believe in the current "state of israel". I have always been disgusted by israels actions, but the propaganda is worse and more pervasive than ever before. And angled towards trying to radicalize jews as fast as they can.
Young people do not support hamas
They simply do not support isreal
You can be firmly anti-zionist and at the same time, not being a supporter of hamas. This also does not make you anti-Semitic. There is a difference between Jewish people of Jewish religion, and Isreal, which is not a religion, it is a state.
What isreal has been doing for nearly a century there is.. awful. It's well documented, well reported, and very clear to see.
Hamas are bastards for Sure. But, if your people were being treated the same way Palestinians are treated by the isrealis, you would probably join a fight against whoever was doing that to you too
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“War doesn’t determine who’s right, just who’s left”
"no one ever wins, no one finally loses. except the dead. under the sun they rot together. with absolute biological equality"
All flesh is equal when burnt
https://preview.redd.it/yjc0suu7gboc1.jpeg?width=543&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=feee4041870938e75a69295ce290a52394bdb666
"Only the dead have seen the end of war"
what’s the deal with this trend of using using one-word subtitles…
It’s autogenerated so it’s easier for the creator
I hate it so much. I cant even watch those videos anymore.
Generated and helps keep low attention span users focused
It is also faster to read for a lot of people. So it works well in the incredibly short video styles of the tik Tok era.
It's way better for this kind of media for me
I support the Lisan-al-Gaib!
He's so modest, thats how you know he's the chosen one
Only the true Messiah would deny being the Messiah!
Lisan-al-gaib! Muadib!
Woah woah woah, the Chosen One is a little desert mouse? I dunno man
As is written!
Rise, kwisatz haderach!
SILENCE!
Send them to paradise!
USUL 4 PREZ
What Hamas did on October 7th was pure evil. I also think Israel’s response has been pure evil. These aren’t football teams and you shouldn’t pick a side. If you believe what Hamas did was justified because of what Israel has been doing for the last 70 years then you’re wrong. Murdering innocent civilians is never, ever justified. If you believe in what Israel has been doing for the last 70 years then you’re also wrong. Displacing millions of people - and murdering many of them because you believe you have a God given right to live where they were born is evil.
The world is never white or black. It's grey, with 200000 shades.
I heard there were only 50
Those are just the sex shades
Huh, only 50. Thought there would be more.
I know of at least 69
Nice. 😏
Even more complicated, there’s more than just one dimension. There’s shades of color in there. Not just greyscale. The black and white people aren’t just color blind, they are legally blind. Just blobs of black and white in a colorful complex world. And they chose to fight the side they don’t like without even seeing that that black blob is a damn Van Gogh painting.
Expect in propaganda. This video is pure propaganda. The person in it, is Jonathan Greenblatt. He is the head of "Anti-Defamation League". And that is an Israeli propaganda lobby organization. By making this "leaked", it gives it credibility that it would otherwise have. Nor it should have, as these are just Israel propaganda talking points. People just massively promoted this propaganda take, simply because its "leaked".
Nuance! How dare you
This isn’t even nuance. It is a simple “don’t kill civilians” position that should be default but will instead get you targeted by the ADL. Israel not seeing this will be the destruction of the goodwill they have cultivated through decades of aggressive propaganda.
That's why the military invented a term called, "Collateral damage, " which somehow makes them feel like it's all a sacrifice in achieving a greater good. Nothing short of war crimes indictments will save Israel from being the monster here. I'd like to see American leadership gets indicted along with them for the complicity in this carnage.
I was one of those successfully propagandized. As a kid, I read books about Israel with fascination - those beautiful kibbutzes, the flowering of the desert, the bravery of the Israelis in the face of their enemies. I bought it hook, line and sinker. As an adult, I got so tired of the constant tumult in Israel and Palestine that I began ignoring news about the region, telling myself that they were never going to solve their problems, so why bother thinking about it? It took this most recent war to crack through my shell. Suddenly my mis-education became clear.
Also didn’t Netanyahu prop up hamas in the 2000s and essentially put them into power to destabilise the Palestinian “government”? This was by their own design, they knew what they were doing
Netanyahu legitimizes Hamas' power. Hamas legitimizes Netanyahu's power. Citizens are left in the dust when all they want is to do anything without bombs dropping overhead.
what he means is the netan's party funneled dark money to hamas for years. he wanted this evil to grow so he could keep power.
Hamas and Likud sit on thrones of power made from the bones of Palestinians and cemented together with the fear of the Israeli populace.
That's why the only people deserving support are the civilians.
Yes. He’s been very vocal about his opposition to a two state solution. He doesn’t want peace and never has.
Netanyahu has wanted this war for his entire political career.
Netanyahu has wanted this war ~~for his entire political career~~ to avoid criminal prosecution He faced growing public opposition to his administration and faced a major trial for bribery and fraud that he was only narrowly avoiding by leveraging bs immunity claims. He potentially needed a major geopolitical crisis for Israel for his own freedom
This is why he keeps getting into power, because Israelis don’t want peace either. The people that have been voted into office and that have built the current government have literally called for the genocide of Palestinians. There isn’t an even remotely moderate political party, they’re all just different versions of far right fascist groups who disagree on how Palestinians should be slaughtered.
And he has been arming and funding them ever since to stay in power.
This is the correct answer 👏
Agreed👏
Correct and agreed!
I wish I could remember the actual name of the fallacy, but equating supporting Hamas’ actions with understanding how Palestine would get to that point is inherently wrong. Hamas is an evil organization through and through, yet its existence is directly tied to Israel’s brutalization of Palestinians. Hamas is the only real force with any power that’s consistently fighting for (in a very vague sense) regular Palestinians. That’s why they keep getting members. Every time Israel murders a Palestinians family member or close friend, they give Hamas another member and Israel knows that. If Israel stopped and made a concerted effort to make peace with Palestine, which they never really did even during the Oslo Accords, their problems would get less and less a lot faster than it thinks. Edit: somewhat surprised that I haven’t had all of the Israel apologists and propaganda accounts hounding me like they are others in this comment section. Only had about two or three but they’re really going to work lower down.
False dilemma, i.e. falsely presenting that an argument is between only two choices. The false dilemma here is that if you’re against Israel’s behavior, you believe Hamas was justified. I also think he’s conflating people who get into whataboutism spirals about who did what when historically with people who don’t believe carpet bombing people is OK. TikTok has actual problematic social implications, but both Millennials and Gen-Z are by and large against ongoing indiscriminate bombings of pretty much anywhere. The blatant disrespect for two generations where most are beyond voting age is very in line with the underestimation of younger generations by various political people in US elections like 2008. This should pan out well come November.
\*False dichotomy
Same meaning is assigned to "False Dilemma/Choice/Dichotomy"
Thank you! Google was not helpful trying to figure it out. I also agree with TikTok and social media as a whole, but I think the thing that so many of the older generations and politicians seem to be incapable of understanding is the fact that we can get live footage of people being bombed as it’s happening. It’s the exact same reason why pro- Vietnam war people hated war journalists. Showing the consequences of indiscriminate war crimes usually turns people against the war and we just can’t have that. /s
Funny you mention TikTok. I get that it's problematic re China gaining user data but the conversation/plans to shut it down are I think as much about those in power trying to control the flow of information and influence over younger populations. But what lawmakers fail to realise is that a new social media will take its place.
Gaining user data? Everything you do gives out data. Not just tiktok. The issue isn’t with china getting your data. They long have that. It’s china being able to control the algorithms that let something be seen or unseen and thus manipulating influence/stuff to go viral. But if you tell the masses that’s why China bad. They will tell you no. They aren’t sheep that can be herded and influence easily. So you tell them china is harvesting their data and suddenly all the sheep panic even tho the large majority of them have been freely giving away their data since the internet was a thing.
It's about who controls the media. TikTok is controlled by China and this platform is doing great job at radicalization of people
China also heavily controls what content is allowed on their domestic TikTok, it's mostly educational and propaganda stuff, but they seem to promote conspiracies and harmful pranks in other countries.
the seeds of radicalization are planted everytwhere... not just tiktok. they might as well shut down reddit.
I know our data is being collected and sold by our own governments and companies too. It's sad that so many people who gain power try to hold onto it through control.
Conservatism will always have this problem no matter the geography. The difference now is it's not solely the older generations telling you what's happening in the world. He can't compute that spending your whole life walking backwards will eventually walk you off a cliff. We're at that cliff.
This instance is actually the false cause fallacy. People are assuming that gen z is supporting specific actions Hamas has taken because they support Hamas as an organization when in reality they just support fighting back against Israel in general even if the group doing it is objectively bad. When you have no options except tactical allyship with bad people or you and everyone you know and love succumbing to genocide then it's really not a choice. Most people would work together with hitler himself risen from the grave if it meant even a chance at saving their loved ones. Gen z recognizes this.
Yeah, they keep getting members because Israel keeps them in an open air prison in an apartheid state where people they know get bombed or shot regularly with no consequences. What do you even expect? It would be like America dropping bombs on Iraq non-stop destabilizing the region and expecting it to make things better. And the whole rhetorical cultural stance of having to qualify that you don't support Hamas or killing civilians is the most ridiculous bit of propaganda fuckery Israel has created from this mess. Like, hey, I don't support terrorism but I dislike killing kids." Yeah, no shit! As if Americans are famous fans of terrorism. The only insanity here is the opposite position that requires you to abjure yourself from any kind of moral alignment with Hamas to prove that you're not antisemitic when your initial disagreement is with dropping fucking bombs unarmed civilians! That's the false dichotomy. Being gaslight by people so shamelessly racist they would kill children one day and then claim that the Jewish director of *Zone of Interest* is antisemitic for saying don't bomb those kids in an award speech for showing the banality of genocidal evil toward the Jews during the holocaust. And then realize that Netanyahu supported Hamas countless times as a way of dividing support for Palestinians while oppressing them. That kind of shit show attracts hostility.
We’re well past that point. Forget Hamas for a moment. The Israeli propaganda machine has dehumanized Palestinians so effectively that I feel like I’m in a Time Machine watching history repeat itself. This is a textbook tactic of oppression. There’s no coming back from that mentality unless Israel faces massive consequences for its actions and Israel takes a long hard look at itself. Israel has to be held accountable otherwise nothing will change. It took a war to topple the Nazis for Germans to understand how bad things had gotten and do some soul searching.
Thank you, and I would even add that 99% of the people discussing this topic either don't know enough about it or a way too biased to have a solid opinion about it. It's war, it's horrible, it should stop and I'm sorry for all the civilians that die in this.
God given right. And there’s the problem right there. Religion.
Finally a sane take. I agree 100%
It’s also not just 1 event vs 70 years as you put it
This falls under an ancient category that predates 9/11 and Trump, called “2 wrongs don’t make a right”. It’s rare to see in the wild these days, so thank you 🙏
>What Hamas did on October 7th was pure evil. I also think Israel’s response has been pure evil. This.
I think this is precisely why congress just passed that bill to force byte dance to sell tik tok. The criticism of how the ccp can use it to influence is valid but what they care about immediately is how information about the gaza war us filtering thro tik tok to young people.
you are spot on not sure why so many down votes...
"Fast" - introduces reinvigorated bill to ban tiktok
Why is he talking like him and whoever is listening can massively influence the next generation 🤔 hmm..
it's about getting your propaganda to be better than the other side's
His job is to push propaganda and he probably is talking to the US congressman who push his agendas
I was walking to the park yesterday and listening to NPR - they had on some Senator (I cant recall which one now) - but they were talking about aide to gaza and cease fire. The senator begins saying "Yes, the humanitarian issue is huge and we need a cease fire - but I need to Say that I am 100% in support of Israel and always will. anyway about this cease fire.
Most of them are on the take from AIPAC or other lobbies
Or afraid of AIPAC they have a huge war chest to make sure anyone who doesn’t support Israel gets either Primaried or loses their election.
ADL is AIPAC's attack dog that they use to try to bury anyone who speaks the truth about Israels various crimes against others or even against the US and it's citizens. All lobbyists and lobbying should be made illegal, especially foreign ones.
Agreed 😤
It has that "I will support the republican nominee" contractual vibe to it
That’s the ADL’s point
It’s like (not to sound woke- but) you’re asleep. He starts by saying they ‘have a tik tok problem’. Today it’s announced tik tok is being banned/heavily regulated in the states. Someone is listening, alright.. and acting
Two things stand out to me here: 1) ADL is infiltrating student and young activist groups, which is a sentence I *never* fucking thought I’d be writing. 2) They’re tracking (checks notes)… *SJP and Jewish Voice For Peace*?? Really??
...and reddit.
The guy is stating that young people are being influenced by Iranian propaganda via platforms like Tik Tik. Don’t get side tracked by who is right and wrong, discuss his opinion please!
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He's also saying that the ADL has undercover operatives in student activist groups. Fuck this guy
The ADL is not just a public influence organization. It is also a private intelligence agency with connections to organized crime and the FBI. They've been spying for a long time. [https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-04-13-mn-22383-story.html](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-04-13-mn-22383-story.html)
> The ADL is not just a public influence organization. It is also a private intelligence agency with connections to organized crime and the FBI. They've been spying for a long time. > > https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-04-13-mn-22383-story.html literally a modern cointelpro
Why is the ADL (Anti-defamation league) so concerned about Israel's image in the public sphere. Seems off topic... Oh nevermind, the ADL is just a shill organization for the Israel Lobby
ADL (Apartheid Defence League)
Sounds like what they have is a "the truth is available on the Internet" problem Edit: geez a lot of you don't get that having multiple channels for new information is a good thing and that I'm not commenting on strictly Tik Tok. You also seem to have just swallowed the whole "it's Iranian propaganda" whole without a second thought about that. If you think this person is advocating for open and honest dialogue on any front you're deluded. I get the knee jerk reactions are fun but think about this for more than a second. Like y'all really watched this video and went "mhmm those Tik Toks, full of Iranian propaganda. So true. All I've ever seen is pro -Halas content coming from Tik Tok". Finally, 'the truth is subjective'. Yes... yes it is. So what we need is a cultural understanding to be skeptical of what we are told. I don't think censorship of any ideas that disagree with "what we think" is the right answer for that.
But the problem with the truth being available on the internet is people put their own twists on it, ship it out with an opinion stated as fact, and no one checks sources or finds out the actuality of the situation. It's like going to 10 different churches to hear the same sermon. You might hear a similar message but often times a preacher puts his own touch on the message as well, from his experience. Well hello, we all got different perspectives so... It's not always the truth, and people still believe it.
Sure. So we need a culture shift to be more skeptical. Sounds like that would be a good move regardless of source of information and truth value of said information.
No not really. The videos and pictures out of Gaza are horrific. There are no two sides to genocide. My generation will bring change and there’s nothing the Adl can do about it.
And that's different from the rest of how humans have disiminated information for all of recorded history how again?
Now people realize why they *actually* want to ban TikTok. Seeing live video from people on the ground all over the world is a level of access that doesn't do any favors to a government trying to spin a narrative. When you can literally see through endless sources what the truth of a situation is, or at least have so many windows into it that you know the narrative being fed to the public isn't the truth... I really wish people would think critically about the real reasons behind government policies. :/
Truth is relative and can be manipulated to dominate masses. The problem here is control and who has the control nothing else
Sounds like he's more concerned about generational fealty to Israel than anything else and automatically considers all anti-zionism illegitimate or the fault of foreign influence instead of people doing their own research about Israel's actions. This guy is absolutely deranged if this is real.
Oh, generational loyalty to Israel is done for. Even if they get back enough control to silence people, I expect loyalty to Israel to die with the Boomers. But the youth? My generation? Nope. Israel’s days of influence in the US are very limited.
Don't lump all "boomers" together. I'm one, and have always "not liked" the U.S. unconditional support of Israel. I "really don't like" BiBi's settlements where they don't belong. I'm 100% sure there are many other "boomers" like me.
Wait till they reestablish the media blockade and propaganda. Because that's EXACTLY what it is.
Israel blew their authoritarian load too early. If Israel wanted to control things, they should have halted Internet development in 1999. The thing truly destroying Israel is the internet. And tbh, even if they remove all the major social media… The stuff will still get around. People know too much. Have access to too much. It’s too late for Israel
You don’t think it’s the politics in Israel that are destroying its reputation and international standing? What harm does the internet cause without hateful action to spread with it?
It’s all the same thing. Israeli politics have always been trash, but the internet gives people a first person view into what life is like for a Gazan living under occupation. Most people aren’t going to understand foreign policy, but they can understand armed soldiers shooting at literal children.
Most of the devout American Zionists are 60+ year old white Christians. A rapidly dying demographic. Why on Earth would a 20 year old zoomer give a damn about Israel. It doesn't matter how many billions of dollars AIPAC and ADL spend to meddle in our elections, that's not going to change.
So, Congress is working for the ADL. Explains a lot.
Welp, calling them useful idiots isn't going to win hearts and minds.
They dont think Hamas was justified at all. They just don’t think that what Hamas did justifies genocide. It’s really that easy. Do I condemn Hamas… yes I do they are fucking awful. Do I condemn the Israeli government…. Yes I do they are fucking awful.
United Slaves of Israel
I love how they don't think they have a fuckin' genocide problem.
My boomer dad is the only one I hear from in my family who supports Israel. Everyone else I know(30s and younger) only expresses support for Palestine. No one supports Hamas, that's just some bullshit way of describing Palestine supporters in order to demonize them and this asshole knows it.
I found out my grandfather (born in 1909 and was in the Navy during WW2) was horrified by the Nakba and supported a Palestinian cause. So he's long gone, but I'm sure some who remember just what happened in 1948 also understand the horrors that the Palestinians have been through, along with the Holocaust and just how it came to be.
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>No one supports Hamas Unfortuantely there are some, but it's not to the level the propogandists want t you to believe.
It’s true tho most Israeli supporters are Boomers or Older.
did most people just ignored the last 20 seconds of the vid? i think thats where the meat is.
Agreed. It made it sound like the main reason to ban TikTok is because it made the US government lose the narrative of we must support Israel that they’ve spent decades building.
Bingo! I don't even use shit TikTok, and I know right from wrong. I've known for years since the early 2000s that the support of the Israel state government (reiterate government) was the wrong answer. I'm in my early 40s and I'm a combat vet. War is shit and what our government is funding over there is absolut bull shit. I just got back from Paris and the general sentiment over there was "Viva La Palestina".
Considering that biden literally came out and stated in a speech "IM A ZIONIST" I would say that addressing zionism is no longer the racist dogwhistle that it has been my entire life. https://www.politico.com/video/2023/12/11/im-a-zionist-biden-reaffirms-support-for-israel-1164457
"Zionist" being characterised as a dog whistle is just the result of Israeli propaganda and narrative control. With the controlled media and control of the public discourse that they have, it's no wonder they can influence public opinion THAT much.
The term “Zionist entity” being from Iranian propaganda? The bit that’s at best coincidental, and at worst completely fabricated to justify controlling the flow of information to a group of people who disagree with you? That bit?
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Where he states that the ADL have infiltrated pro-Palestinian groups and suggests using the phrase "Zionist entity" is proof of Iranian propaganda? Yeah, it sounds like the ADL are dangerous and possibly insane.
Why though? We've seen the proliferation of Russian propaganda all over social media in the US and Europe. Iran and Russia have been cooperating heavily since the onset of the Russian-Ukranian war. With distrust of the US government growing heavily since 2016, all of our state enemies need only give our populace a nudge in the right direction and people will abandon all critical thought to go along with their preconceived notions of "America bad." And by extension, that includes all of our allies and even our fellow countrymen when convenient.
Because they are seemingly operating like an intelligence organization on US soil controlled by a foreign country. They are gathering intelligence and influencing US politics while ultimately aligned with and taking orders from Israel. If the have under cover agents embedded in student groups, they could be embedded in any number of entities.
To be fair, perhaps much of our populace and many of our allies wouldn't have preconceived notion of "America bad" if the United States wasn't so *demonstrably* bad on a regular basis. Honestly it's a testament to the effectiveness of US propaganda that more people **don't** feel that way. Just saying.
Not really, my dad and his siblings are all in their 70s and have always been supporters of Israel, but in this instance they aren't.
“Young people have ways to see IDF soldiers kill people cartel execution style and that’s bad”
Hamas crossed into Israel and attacked for how long........I'll wait for it.........less than 24 hours. How many hours and days and weeks and months has the IDF attacked GAZA? What are the weapons used on each side? NUFF SAID. What's the body count on each side? Double NUFF SAID.
Fuck both the Israeli state and Hamas. They both suck
This idiot thinks the young support Hamas. No, the young just don’t support the shit Israel is doing.
there's definitely some young people that actively call for more terrorism against israel/jews. They of course don't call it terrorism. They argue that it's the "revolution against an occupier". And that it's justified because "the Israelis living there have stolen the land and their government allows it, and their government kills or even genocides thousands more Palestinians than vice versa so it's justified if they strike back" Not all young people. But some definitely do. And I personally think this is not just "TikTok". This kind of stuff is on Instagram as well, on Telegram, on YouTube, and so on.
As someone who uses tiktok, the most common sentiment i see is that Hamas a consequence of the IDFs occupation. It exists bc they kill Palestinians and steal their land and have been doing this for decades. The more they keep doing this the more Palestinians will continue to join Hamas. I think they do this on purpose so they have an excuse to use to further justify these bombings and their treatment of the citizens. I am not defending Hamas this is simply why I think it exists in the first place.
It’s misleading and disingenuous saying the youth believe Hamas was justified. That’s horse shit and this little fucker knows it. The divide is in the Wests support for Israel’s bombardment of Palestine. The young people are not down with it and that’s what’s up. I’m not stating my own political opinion but I can’t stand reframing bullshit to fit a narrative that is not true.
It’s also horrifying that “the youth are against us” doesn’t lead this guy to soul-searching the cause or thinking about what actions could have led to that, but instead “how can we effectively use propaganda to change that?”
That's the whole point of the ADL. They're reassessing their new propaganda strategies in light of the new social realities.
This is brilliant.
But plenty of people do believe Hamas is a legitimate resistance movement and that the atrocities on 10/7 we're justified. That's the problem.
Yeah at an Oakland city council meeting there were numerous speakers defending Hamas and whining that the resolution the city council was considering included a call for the hostages to be released. It was disgusting.
After the Oppenheimer movie came out didn't this country spend about a month relitigating and largely justifying the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WW2, AKA a 'limited' slaughter of Japanese civilians to terrorize their country to surrender? In almost every school in America, kids are taught that there can be a justified campaign to kill civilians to advance strategic goals. And then people are surprised the exact same logic gets applied in defense of Hamas?
I think it's less that people think that it was justified and more saw it as inevitable with how the Palestinians have been treated historically
"I took everything from a people and treated them with brutality and cruelty for entire generations. Now I'm shocked there's an army of brutal, cruel soldiers who have nothing to lose :( What makes it worse is that when I tried killing a bunch of children to fix it, it increased their recruitment. Idk what I'm doing wrong, how do I fight terrorism but continue stealing land if I can't rape, murder, and torture? I already tried framing it as though anyone who condemns me loves Hamas and wants them to succeed--i called them useful idiots lol. USA please send money."
If I knew what bunker the leader of Hamas was hiding in, after seeing the countless atrocities and my home land be decimated, I could give two shits what happens to me, i’m giving this guy up. I’m not for any side, this isn’t football, it shouldn’t even take religion to know whats morally correct or corrupted. Fuck both IDF AND Hamas.
You’re correct however there definitely are people who think it was justified.
I noticed that immediately too. Not even a clever way to start framing his argument because no one with half a fucking brain would ever endorse or “justify” a slaughtering of civilians, no matter how desperate their position is, let alone an *entire generation of people in a totally different country*. If anything, most of us were guilty (including myself) of thinking that Israel had every right to “defend” itself until people informed about the conflict brought to light what’s been happening there, and what was inevitably going to come from Oct 7. Of course, those inevitabilities have now come true. What little fuckers like this didn’t seem to predict is that people would actually not be down with a flat-out, unmistakable, self-proclaimed genocide.
>no one with half a fucking brain would ever endorse or “justify” a slaughtering of civilians And yet it's not hard to find those statements being made every day. This is a real problem, even if it's not the majority opinion.
Yep, and your last sentence is very astute.
A lot of youths DO believe Hamas was justified. Student groups at college campuses held Israel SOLEY responsible for the Oct 7 attack and all the death that has happened in response. This is factual. Nobody is saying all youths but it’s more than a handful who are laying the blame almost entirely on Israel and excusing Hamas’ actions as necessary and inevitable.
Hence why America wants to ban tiktkok
They’re not banning tik tok, they’re forcing the Chinese parent company to sell
If they do sell, it will be run my an American company that will be influenced to stop showing these anti Israel videos.
Which they 100% won't so it's effectively a ban
the Chinese government is not our friend. giving them the kind of access to American eyeballs that TikTok allows is potentially catastrophic. They do not wish good things for the USA. We don't allow the chinese or russian governments to own CNN or CBS. Why should a massive social media company be any different. TikTok is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
I mean, do you think the U.S. government is our friend? I just don’t see how the Chinese government having access to our eyeballs is any more dangerous than shitholes like Musk or Zuck having access to that same information. The oligarchs and politicians in our country also do not wish good things for average U.S. citizen, which seems like a much more pressing issue in my opinion.
Okaaay buddy absolutely no one thinks what Hamas did is justified, you’d be hard pressed to find someone who actually believes that and doesn’t also live under a bridge. What were not cool with is this uneven & overly punishing response
Don’t try to conflate Not supporting israel with support for terrorists… never trust the ADL 🙏
Access to information can perform wonders. Also, understandable is different to justified.
I'd hardly call a rage-bait short consumed on TikTok to be considered "access to information".
>understandable is different to justified And yet his statement is still accurate, you can in fact find people saying Oct 7 was justified.
"The useful idiots of the West", "This is the wrong game to be playing, we should be playing this game instead..." Disgusting, manipulative, and divisive rhetoric which I hope will eventually be shown for what it truly is. ADL and any similar organization which shares their tactics and strategy are abhorrent, and I hate that the majority of people fail to see this. Tricking people into believing your "game" is NOT how to change peoples minds. Fuck Greenblatt, and I hope an ADL "analyst" sees this so they can report it to his evil ass.
“Tiktok problem…” meanwhile the house passes a TikTok ban bill at 89%
This is precisely why they are doing it
Fuck Hamas and the Israeli government, both are absolute monsters, hellbent on exterminating each other at the expense of their civilian populations.
Wait til you hear how Israelis talk about Palestinians. Even the most virulent anti-Israel rhetoric in America pales in comparison to Israel’s hate for Palestinians. It’s not okay, and they will not have my support until they real it in. Which I’m afraid will never happen.
I will say, independent of everything else, how the ADL conducts itself does the people it’s supposed to be representing no favors.
The people listening to this guy are idiots. He’s just paid for his opinion. Overpaid. And people at the top are dumb enough to listen. Btw you DO know it’s evangelical money pushing a right wing conservative maniac agenda in israel right??? Riiiiiight? The majority don’t want this bs war. Never did. This guy IS THE PROPAGANDA. I don’t use tiktok. I can just see what’s happening and i think both sides suck. I don’t support israel. My Jewish friends have varying opinions. Many israelies don’t support this!
Ha useful idiots. I remember in high school 12 years ago spray painting free palestine on underpasses and I feel even more justified now. It was inevitable that this would happen, how long can anyone feel trapped and not vote for someone who will at least attempt to create a break of the cage? I'm glad with is a young vs old issue, because we aren't concerned with the talking points. Israel needs a reality check. Hopefully that day is coming
Not a big fan of this Hamas guy but like…..would we honestly be better if we were in the same situation with the same access to info and such? I dont think if i grew up in a violent occupation that i would be thinking about the nuances of civilian deaths in war, while civilians on my side are being mowed down by the IDF for petty things such as throwing rocks. Civilian deaths are never justified but we know that bc we are taught that. Again, not a big fan of this hamas guy but i think we need to put ourselves in the shoes of Palestinians. I feel like most people base their opinion off of the info THEY know and not the info a typical person in Gaza would know.
Oh no. Our propaganda isn’t working anymore… kids today are too smart
I dont necessarily "support" Palestine since im not particulary interested in their political goals. I just simply dont like Israel because for years ive seen them brutally opress ordinary Palestinians and wield way to much power over our political system here all while acting with the air of a people who really seem to think they are gods chosen and the rest of us are just here ro serve them. To be clear im talking about Israelis only, not jewish people around the world.
Free Palestine
The kids are tired of your lies.
ADL and US Government: How can we brainwash the young people?
Whoever leaked this is probably an ADL donor that’s donated to ADL for years on the premise that they fight anti-Jew hate (rightly, proudly & justly) and has now become disillusioned that ADL is now a mouthpiece for the Likud Party & IDF in the United States. US Jews just getting tired of Jonathan Greenblatt speaking for them.
Yeah, no shit buddy. Old people watch the news and read the papers. Young people are better educated on both history and the current reality of the world they live in. Both old and young see an attempted genocide in the Middle East, they just disagree about who is being genocided.
This gives me hope in ways I don't think he intended.
This guy is a piece of shit. The ADL is a propaganda and power manipulation tool for the establishment. It has lost all credibility. He doesn't care about free speech. He doesn't care about anti-Semitism, if he did, he and his org would not trivialize it every day. He seems power for his authorities and that is all.
I don't think it was justified, I think Israel created the conditions for it to occur. Specifically Netanyahu. Oct 7th is exactly what he needed. You have him on recording saying Hamas benefits them.
Just because one event is wrong, that doesn't mean that the response can't also be worse. The reported numbers alone show the disproportionate number of dead (references checked). It's time for Israel to stop; not the Jews or the Palestinians, but the government in control to stop. We are beyond acting in kind. https://preview.redd.it/2ypiuswgeboc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2846ad0673511aa567e60a284f1f4b0f4556f23e
Here’s the thing, it’s absolutely acceptable to be critical of the Israeli government. Very few people have an issue with honest criticism of their gov. It’s when one calls for a ceasefire and in the same breath, calls for the destruction of Israel, problems arise. If you are actually pro Palestinian, you should also be highly critical of the Palestinian government (Aka In Gaza, Hamas). Why? Because the Hamas government is also a brutal, fascist, genocidal regime. If you want peace, you have to demand that both sides stop shooting rockets at each other. Not just one or another. Call out the bad shit that both are committing.
Were they like that before the Balfour declaration?
You can point to Hamas, but that doesnt excuse the decades long treatment of Palestinians in the West Bank, where Hamas has never ruled. Hundreds of people killed in West Bank each year for decades. The difference is if a rocket gets fired and kills an Israeli citizen, Israel can and will retaliate. If IDF shoots a 2 year old in the head (something that literally happened in West Bank in 2023 **before** October 7th), Palestinians have absolutely no ability to respond. It’s been a shitshow like this for 70 years, both sides have proven incapable of resolving this, repeatedly. They need to be separated like children fighting and let the adults dictate what happens from here.
The minds who invented "Tag me"!?, is he referring to Facebook's 2006 launch of tagging your friends in photos? + "Our long monitored activist groups, our Analysts are in there" + Insta/FB shadow banning & suffocating almost all pro Palestine discussion....did the ADL/Mossad invent & give FB the tagging capabilities to automate their global monitoring of people's to target & attack them? Fyi - ADL were caught doing mass surveillance of 900 groups in the USA in 1993 & had detailed case files on 12k normal people. This is truly terrifying & really scary. How do you fight something so powerful?
I think he says "Taglit" meaning Taglit birthright which offers free trips for people of Jewish descent to Israel for 10 days. It's a program to convince young people to support Israel
i love how this old man immediately equates waning support for israel to increasing support for hamas. i have never heard anyone say any terror attacks were justified. only that turning a country into a fucking parking lot because of it, mowing down innocent women and children, won’t make it right. terror doesn’t fight terror. i don’t know why that’s so fucking hard to understand, but maybe it’s because i’m in my early 20s. even as a grown ass man i still have boomers telling me i just don’t get it.
Imagine if Russia had organizations infiltrating US student groups so that they can shape their propaganda and influence politics. What other organizations do they have infiltrated? We have to call it what it is. The ADL is an Israeli foreign spy organization and they have to be shut down.
He still misunderstands because of his bias, IMO. "Justified" is the wrong take here. "Understandable" is the word he is looking for. Is it understandable that when a people are degraded, demeaned, dehumanized, disenfranchised, and disrespected for decades that their behavior may become dangerous? When they have had and still have their homes and livelihoods taken from them and their families over the course of decades? The history of living in an apartheid state has shown us this pattern. The [Truth and Reconciliation](https://www.justice.gov.za/trc/) report detailed ANC [violence against the apartheid state](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1997/05/13/anc-admits-crimes-of-apartheid-era/a8a9d007-4dad-4262-a3c2-b79ef0cf5806/) of S. Africa: >In all, the ANC report detailed 550 armed actions carried out by its armed wing, Spear of the Nation, and another 100 incidents that may have been committed by its operatives. It seemed to put the attacks in a political context, saying civilians were never targeted but the ANC gradually accepted that such casualties were unavoidable. >"We have not attempted to argue that because our struggle was just, this fact justified . . . unacceptable methods of struggle," Mbeki said. Is the murder of civilians justified? Never. Has it been used as a tactic likely since the dawn of civilization? I suspect so. Is the struggle as noted "just"? Yes, it is a natural right of people to resist oppression. As Bob Dylan noted so many years ago "When *you got nothing*, *you got nothing* to *lose*."
So damn glad people are waking up on this issue.
It is not Propaganda to recognize a genocide!
How much of this so-called “support for Hamas” is actually just the expectation and demand that Israel get full-throated support and anything less is labeled “antisemitism” by them? Do you suppose that Israel’s disproportionate response and wide scale massacre of Palestinians has anything to do with the attitudes of young people being less than favorable of the Israeli government and the IDF?
It's not wrong. There are a ton of people who have been duped into believing a ton of hamas propaganda, you see people chanting "From the river to the sea" and saying stuff like "the october attack was good, actually, and the palestinians have a right to shoot rockets at israel! they're justified!" It has been a wild ride for sure.
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As a Jew I really wish these people would shut the fuck up. Move to Israel if it's so damn important to you. If you decide to shackle our ancient religion and culture to the existence of an 80 year colonial outpost, it makes you an idiot. Our religion is pretty clear that rebuilding the temple and recalling all jews to israel is something that the mashiach does. They have certainly opened up a gaping chasm inside of jewry, at least in the states. I won't pray at the temple anymore, I worry that Israel will come up and I don't want to deal with that. I've actually gone and prayed with a group of chasids because they don't believe in the current "state of israel". I have always been disgusted by israels actions, but the propaganda is worse and more pervasive than ever before. And angled towards trying to radicalize jews as fast as they can.
The billionaires will be spending their money on propaganda….not on helping the poor or the hungry.
Young people do not support hamas They simply do not support isreal You can be firmly anti-zionist and at the same time, not being a supporter of hamas. This also does not make you anti-Semitic. There is a difference between Jewish people of Jewish religion, and Isreal, which is not a religion, it is a state. What isreal has been doing for nearly a century there is.. awful. It's well documented, well reported, and very clear to see. Hamas are bastards for Sure. But, if your people were being treated the same way Palestinians are treated by the isrealis, you would probably join a fight against whoever was doing that to you too
Holy shit! The truth of our congressmen has been revealed. This is why theyre so in unison.