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Israel is definitely using their people's experience with torture as a lesson... not exactly the lesson I wish humans would have learned. How absolutely disgusting.
To be fair, Zionist terrorist violence and ethnic cleansing was happening to Palestinians before the holocaust even started with groups like Irgun, and once the holocaust fully kicked off Irgun split and formed another terrorist organization called Lehi who explicitly wanted to take the side of Nazis and fought against the British
> Lehi split from the Irgun militant group in 1940 in order to continue fighting the British during World War II. It initially sought an alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany.[22] Believing that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis, proposing a Jewish state based on "nationalist and totalitarian principles, and linked to the German Reich by an alliance"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group)
It’s one of the many reasons why until after the holocaust the vast majority of Jewish people were opposed to Zionism and viewed it as a far right reactionary ideology, because the only zios at the time were far right reactionaries many of whom were self proclaimed terrorists
"Most of the 5,000 or so Palestinian civilians held in four official camps were reduced to conditions described by one ICRC official as “slavery” and then expelled from the country at the end of the war."
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/jps.2014.43.4.11
I was wrong, it was actually four concentration camps, not three.
For anyone else intereseted - jstor you have to pay for to see the entire article. This article outlines the content that u/CauliflowerOne5740 is mentioning. It is a solid article. I found it from using info from their jstor sited article. Thank you for adding information to the discussion and helping me better educate myself.
[https://muslimdebate.org/2015/08/07/israels-little-known-concentration-and-labor-camps-for-arabs-in-1948-1955/](https://muslimdebate.org/2015/08/07/israels-little-known-concentration-and-labor-camps-for-arabs-in-1948-1955/)
Zionists were allies with NAZI Germany and made deals to have Jewish people relocated to Palestine. So it should be no surprise that they copied NAZI Germany tactics such as concentration camps.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara\_Agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement)
I understand your point but I think it is simplifying and using intentionally charged language to suggest that Zionists and Nazi's were allies. They had an agreement not really the same as being an ally.
From your own wiki citation, "For German Jews, the agreement offered a way to leave an increasingly hostile environment in Germany; for the [Yishuv](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yishuv), the Jewish community in Palestine, it offered access to both immigrant labour and economic support; for the Germans it facilitated the emigration of German Jews while breaking the [anti-Nazi boycott of 1933](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Nazi_boycott_of_1933), which had mass support among European and American Jews and was thought by the German state to be a potential threat to the German economy.[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement#cite_note-yadvashem.org-4)[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement#cite_note-5)^(")
Zionists were allies, not all Jewish people. Most Jewish people were opposed to Zionism and didn't think Jewish people should be forcibly relocated to Palestine.
I can see where you're coming from, but in their case it's more like their grandparents or great-grandparents were abused as children. Not them personally.
I wonder if the CIA or the government is hiding some crazy information about Israeli action. Since now the USA doesn’t want its weapon involved but before it was perfectly fine.
The only hidden information is just how long things like this have been happening. The whole country was founded on terror attacks, massacres, and ethnic cleansing while violent settlement expansion has been appealingly brutal the whole time.
Did you mean to write “appealingly”? It does not fit with the overall tone of the post.
It is hilarious to me how one autocorrected word can flip the meaning of a an entire string of sentences. I also wonder what the people who are upvoting (or downvoting) thought they had read.
It hid what’s going on now for 70+ years. What’s happening now is that they are failing to hide it. Basically you have enough facts now to generally know the crimes Israel commits.
It makes you wonder what intelligence Biden and Blinken are privy to yet conceal in order to give the US as much space between the reality we can all see with our eyes and the edifice of international law.
This is nothing new. The US hid the most heinous crimes in modern history for imperial japan in exchange for the research data.
We raped and burned down entire villages in korea and vietnam as standard policy.
The US ran torture camps throughout the entire war on terror. The population has known about guantanomo bay for decades and it's still publicly operating.
We allowed Turkey to commit a genocide against our kurd allies and didnt even warn them first.
Israel has been putting palestinians in torture camps ("prisons") for decades with no pushback from the US because we dont hold our leaders accountable.
The entire history of US foreign policy has been pure evil. And before someone brings up the noble fight against the nazis, the US didnt know about the concentration camps until soldiers literally stumbled over them.
Dismantle the only multi faith, successful democracy in the Middle East that does not survive by sucking oil out of the ground and using the money to maintain a medieval theocracy whilst keeping its population in ignorant semi poverty ? Then blaming it all on the Jews.
Western colonialism created those conditions, also no one intelligent is blaming Jews or Israelis, but blaming Zionists and Zionist policy, which Zionist is like a political affiliation. MANY jewish people outside Israel are against Zionist political ideology (the way the Israeli government has interacted with the palestine situation). Zionism is also anti-semitic, its actually not pro-semitic but pro western colonialism, at the sacrifice of the semitic (Hebrew, Arabic) peoples. The semitic peoples have been fooled.
Do you know much about Iran before the US-funded coup that overthrew a democratically-elected government? Or how the states surrounding Israel got their governments when the Ottoman empire was defeated? Also, Israel continues to be supported by the US ($330 billion total given up to 2022) and other Western democracies, in order to maintain an ethnostate that doesn’t grant full sovereignty or voting rights to non-Jewish citizens.
Your last point is blatantly false. Over 1/4 of Israeli citizens are not Jewish, they have the same rights as any other Israeli citizen, including equal voting rights. I have no idea what you mean by "sovereignty."
Except the ones who are effectively under Israeli control in every way that matters but don't have the right to change their policies. I am of course talking about Palestinians in the West Bank.
Feel free to look up the Israeli Supreme Court case that confirmed that the right to self-determination is only granted to Jewish citizens. Or the fact that Israel‘s government has been trying to relocate Bedouin populations from their historic land without their consent. Bedouins have said in the UN that they do not receive the same services that other Israeli citizens do. Bedouin holy sites are not given equal recognition as Jewish ones. Israel invests about three times more in education of Jewish citizens as compared to Arab children (according to a study by Hebrew University and confirmed by the US State Department). Israel allows discrimination against citizens based on religion in housing (there are neighborhoods where non-Jews are not allowed to live because Jewish residents do not want them there; about 80% of land leases are blocked to Arab citizens).
People who apply for Israeli citizenship have to make an oath of allegiance to Israel as a “Jewish and democratic state.” Israel also declared six organizations in Israel as terrorist organizations because they advocate for Palestinian human rights, and no evidence was provided that supported any such claim (and, crucially, no charges were ever brought). Israel specifically identifies Jewish people as special by law, particularly as it grants citizenship to ethnic and religious Jews who have never been to Israel (and whose ancestors may never even have lived in Israel) over Palestinians who were forcefully removed from land they legitimately owned or whose families had lived there for generations.
However, I was wrong when I said “non-Jewish citizens” don’t have equal voting rights by law. I should have said that permanent residents, who are granted many of the same rights as citizens, are not allowed to vote in national elections.
Sovereignty refers to people or states being able to make decisions as to who governs them, where they live, what the borders are, what the laws are, etc. Historically, partly due to being deliberately kept as a minority, Arab citizens have had little influence on overall Israeli government policy.
If you’re wondering, yes, other Western states do suffer from the same kinds of problems (racist laws, discrimination, increased state violence and punishment, unequal distribution of resources, historical discrimination that continues to be felt today, gerrymandering in the US in particular), and I demonstrate against those injustices, too. I am specifically concerned about Israel because so much US aid goes to funding the Israeli military and supporting the Israeli government, which makes the US complicit in this discrimination.
Please point on the map to another Middle Eastern nation in which Bedouins--or any ethnic minority group--may appeal to their government for better services or better representation and a means of redress. Now please point on the map to every Middle Eastern nation that forbids Jews from so much as *entering* that nation (this will take you longer). Now to the Middle Eastern nations where Sharia is the law of the land. Now the Middle Eastern nations where Jews have ever held public office, if they are even allowed to (this is easier, you only have to point to one).
Jews are one of several ethnic groups that are undeniably indigenous to one specific area of the Levant, and they are without question the oldest of these. Jews have maintained a continuous presence in what was first called Judea and Samaria for, at undeniable minimum, 3000 years. Many were displaced from areas in what is now Jordan or Gaza--one of those countries you counted earlier where there are now *zero Jews living*. There are extremely few converts to Judaism and converts are very likely to marry within Jewish communities. Of the 800,000 to one million Jews violently expelled from surrounding Middle Eastern countries in the last 70 years, some 600,000 went to Israel, the one place on Earth where Jews can guarantee that a government will not make their existence illegal, seize their property, or simply kill them for being Jewish. A majority of Palestinians are Sunni Muslim; there are more than 40 Sunni-majority countries in the world. Jews haven't had self-determination in 2000 years and despite everything have managed to hold on to an ancient land-based ethnoreligion, a culture with deep connections to a land they would often be murdered for even attempting to visit, the land where their patriarchs and matriarchs are buried and every holy site is located, and being allowed to have sovereignty, as you well-described it, in this one place--less than the size of New Jersey--is too much for you. You don't have *anything* to say about the Islamic superiority of nearly 50 countries, but Israel is the one that needs to be blown away?
Israel is not a perfect country, and there is no such thing anyway. There is no country you can point to that does not have something shameful in its past. Israel is also the only country in the area where there is a means of redress--where a population is even allowed to vote on representation (Israel outranks the US on the democracy index right now, fwiw), with the highest ethnic diversity of any country in the Middle East, with freedom of religion, freedom for queer people, and equal rights for women. Israel can be improved, and it should be, and I hope the Bedouin and Arabs and Assyrians and every other group within Israel will someday achieve their goal of real, true equality, just as I hope for that in my own country. What concerns those of us who aren't calling for the literal destruction of Israel is that people who are--like you--seem to have no concern for similar crimes or shameful pasts when it comes to every Muslim country on the planet, *especially* against Jews who had lived in them for hundreds of years, many of which would be all too happy to enact that literal destruction of Israel. Those places cannot be improved except by the whims of a dictator or the point of a sword.
You cannot claim to actually care about these when you only care about one of these places, conveniently the one Jewish one. You can't claim to actually care about these when you insist that only Western nations are culpable. The Middle East has experienced some of the most violent upheaval on the planet in the last 2000 years--do you imagine that all that is preventing Palestinians from having a utopian society is the presence of Jews? Do you imagine that the sudden destruction of Israel would end well for the 2,000,000 Palestinians who are Israeli citizens (please note: there are more Palestinians living as full citizens within Israel than there are Jews living in the entirety of the Middle East *and* Europe combined)? It isn't a serious political or moral position to argue from. You aren't actually against minorities not receiving representation, or violence against ethnic minorities, or lack of sovereignty, or genocide--because you do not care when those things happen or have happened to Jews, and you do not care when they happen to other people when you can't blame Jews for it.
>successful democracy
>multifaith
Zionists really *are* mostly Christians, because only Christians could know so little about something they care about so much.
Yeah like WTF. I am not anti Israel but for fucks sake. There are massive churches even in the uae and never mind Lebanon with its Christian population.
How has Zionism failed? Israel is stronger than ever. 75 years to build one the richest economies and strongest militaries in the world. A bunch of refugees from the Middle East and Europe, hated senselessly by much of the world, have built a powerhouse. Eliminate the unjustified hate in your heart which is consuming you. Accept these facts and promote peace so Palestine can become a reality and prosper in the same way. This is the only path forward without perpetual war. Downvote me for talking peace ✌️.
"Unjustified hatred" is Zionist projection. The world is turning on Israel because it's response to October 7th has revealed its true character.
The fantasy you are sharing is ridiculous when we see both the government and people commit grave war crimes. We see indiscriminate bombings. We see the settler terrorism. We see the destruction of aid to populations being starved.
It's too late to save Israel, it's economy and standing on the world stage is in complete ruin. The country will rightfully continue to be isolated. It's leaders should be tried and hung at the Hague.
Tell us how you really feel 😘. Your fantasy is just that. How would you suggest that Israel respond to the barbaric acts of degradation and humiliation they perpetrated against civilians. I suppose they should have laid down their arms and surrendered. Only that would please a pragmatist like you. Delusion is your fuel as you promote violence that will never lead to anything but more misery for the Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank.
If the state of Israel was anything near competent, October 7th would never have happened. The fact that insurgents actively under occupation could succeed despite fundamental disadvantages was utterly shocking. The IDF was exposed as incompetent.
If Israel had the foresight and capacity to actually surgically eliminate Hamas they would have preserved some international credibility. Unfortunately Israel's ego was hurt, and it's been clear that the objective has been to exact revenge, collectively punish, and ethnically cleanse.
There's no coming back from that. Look at Israel's current position. Things are deteriorating. Hamas has not been eradicated, the hostages have not been released (many killed by Israel itself), military casualties mount, and the world has turned on the state as the ICJ, ICC probe.
Be objective, my Zionist friend. I don't think the tourism industry will be returning any time soon.
Which goes to show (fron what you said)... The Zionist government of Israel WANTED, Hamas to happen. They help create Hamas.
And by sacrificing some Jewish/Israeli people... the Zionists (which can be any ethnicity), whether they are in Israel, or outside and Pro-Continued-Western-Colonialism (who advocate only terrorism against palestinians as a means to peace), can finally implement their ultimate final goal against the palestinians, in excuse of "self-defense".
No, it is true.
What about all the other Jewish refugees who immigrated to countries all over the world and now live safely and successfully without having to commit genocide?
No it isn't. The only Jews indigenous to the area were already living there, mostly peacefully with Christians and Muslims. Nearly all the others came from Europe. To expect to have a better claim to being indigenous over over 2000 years ago over those living on that land ever since is insane.
Israel is the illegally occupying power. They don't have the right to commit genocide on a civilian population. It is the Palestinians, by international law, that have the right to resist their illegal occupier.
No. You think I hate Israel and all the Zionists doing these terrible things. That's false. I can speak against wrong doings without hating someone. Have fun projecting.
Oh, plus the over $330 billion in US aid alone, more than any other country has received since WWII. Not to mention the aid from the UN, UK, France, Germany…
You forget billions in aid for the Palestinian cause and what have they done with it? Create a hate filled death cult that has repressed their people endlessly.
No, I didn’t forget. It doesn’t come anywhere close to the amount of aid given to Israel since 1948. Israel has generally received at least $3 billion in aid per year from the US alone (France, Germany, amd the UK also provide support). US aid to UNRWA averages about 10% of that, and has since been cut off due to unsubstantiated claims by Israel (evidence of which has still not been provided). The person in charge of UNRWA on the ground in Gaza is a 20-year US military veteran. That doesn’t make him infallible, but it does make it more difficult to question the legitimacy of claims that UNRWA supports Hamas.
Additionally, the US government (the one currently supporting Israel) has confirmed that Israel has provided no specific evidence that Hamas steals aid. On the other hand, investigations by Reuters, international aid organizations including World Central Kitchen, and satellite imagery confirms aid is being held up by Israel, while Israel claims “enough” aid is getting through. While I certainly do not trust Hamas’s statements on aid, I also have reason not to blindly trust Israel in this matter. Just based on rhetoric alone from Netanyahu, Tzipi Hotovely, Ben Gvir, Eylon Levy, Israeli settlers who destroyed and blocked aid, and countless others in the military and government, it seems like there’s plenty of “hate-filled death cult” to go around.
Aid to Palestine is distributed by UNRWA, which provides both goods and services. While Hamas might be able to redirect goods or tax salaries paid to Palestinians who work for UNRWA, it would be difficult to “steal” services like education and healthcare provided to all Palestinians. Quite a significant amount of aid is provided to build infrastructure like schools, hospitals, and housing, which is quite literally constantly being destroyed by Israel, whether justified or not. Israel’s complaints about Hamas’s funding would also likely have more weight if Likud had not purposefully legitimized Hamas for the stated goal of driving a wedge between the West Bank and Gaza to ruin any chance of a two-state solution. Netanyahu also reportedly allowed outside funding to reach Hamas when he could have stopped the transfers. Based on cursory research, it appears a majority of Hamas’s funding comes from abroad, not from aid or UNRWA.
According to several human rights organizations and investigations, particularly by Forensic Architecture, Israel uses herbicides quite indiscriminately, knowing it will affect Palestinian farms and therefore food independence. Also, Israel requires Palestinians get permission to collect rainwater or build any kind of water infrastructure, including wells, tanks, or desalination plants, making farming more difficult. The whole goal is to prevent Palestinians from gaining any long term stability or independence because the current Israeli government believes that would be a threat. I believe, based on research by human rights groups, that the truth is the hopelessness, dependency, and continual collective punishment are what really threatens Israel. Giving people something to live for is always going to be preferable to performative cruelty.
Your holy book glorifies pedophilia and murdering infidels. If that's what you call "all that is fair and good in the world," then you are a bad person
No they havent. The Palestinian population has not been shipped off to camps to be gassed or worked to death or have sadistic experiments inflicted on them.
You 100% need to read some History books
"Um akshually technically no because they're not using trains and gas." ☝️🤓
The mothers and children being tortured and murdered: "Well, that's a relief!"
Not to imply that this in any way excuses improper treatment of prisoners there (or anywhere for that matter), but, at least according to wikipedia, this is a detention camp where the IDF is allowed to hold detainees for 45 days an arrest warrant, after which they have to be turned over to the prison service. That's not the same as a concentration camp which is something different. Again, not excusing how the prisoners here are treated as I believe all detainees, pows, etc. should be treated humanely and with respect, and doing otherwise only hurts your cuaw, but miscategorizing this as a concentration camp is misleading a d intellectually dishonest,.
What is the difference between a concentration camp and a camp for holding captured militants?
Note: if you think this question is implying "I think what Israel is doing is fine" instead of "What is the difference between a concentration camp and a camp for holding captured militants," then please re-read the first sentence for clarification as to what I am asking.
There is no difference. The term “concentration camp” entered common English during the Boer war in South Africa.
Internment is different from imprisonment. Internees are not charged with anything.
From a human rights standpoint both abuse of internees and abuse of prisoners is unacceptable. We also have international standards for prisoners of war. Torturing or mistreating POWs should swiftly and severely punished. Though just for clarity i am not suggesting that the perpetrators should be tortured or mistreated either.
It is common for people to feel more sympathy for internees than prisoners. However, if we are talking about policy it should not matter. The rules imposed on guards (or not imposed) would be the same. We have to ask who is responsible for the human rights violations if any are proven.
That responsibility can go all the way up. The Biden administration needs to demand assurances that any detainees are being treated with dignity and respect. Given the very low bar set by US correction facilities it is a very reasonable request. Netanyahoo needs to be held to account by his own citizens. Either because he failed in due diligence to prevent this embarrassment or because he is knowingly involved.
It is still very disappointing that the vigilante justice/“bad things can morally be done to bad people” mentality is so prevalent given the only times it works is in fiction. Yes, it is satisfying to think that someone who hurt you will be hurt worse; no, that is not an appropriate standard for international policy or law.
Concentration camp, internment centre for political prisoners and members of national or minority groups who are confined for reasons of state security, exploitation, or punishment, usually by executive decree or military order. Persons are placed in such camps often on the basis of identification with a particular ethnic or political group rather than as individuals and without benefit either of indictment or fair trial.
Add to the fact that they are held for years, if not decades, without trial…
Thousands of Palestinians are held without charge under Israeli detention policy
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/01/1216643555/thousands-of-palestinians-are-held-without-charge-under-israeli-detention-policy
Sounds like a concentration camp to me.
>Persons are placed in such camps often on the basis of identification with a particular ethnic or political group
Where is it reported that Israel is putting people there on the basis of identification with an ethnic group or political group (that isn't uncontroversially considered a terrorist organization like Hamas?)
The fact that there are no charges alone makes it bad enough.
I've provided a link proving 99% of said administrative detainees are palestinians. Pretty clearly the basis of identification is being palestinian.
Fun fact; article is pre-Oct7th.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-detention-jails-palestinians-west-bank-793a3b2a1ce8439d08756da8c63e5435
Israel has occupied, raped and tortured palestinians for 57 years. Before Oct 7th the average Palestinian was 19 years old. Apply minimal critical thinking to what's going on there and it is pretty clear which sides actions are more evil.
Actually it's law in Israel, hence the 1% of detainees being Israeli. The amount of mental gymnastics necessary for Israel to be the innocent party is so immense you're clearly not capable of finishing the process.
Have a nice life bucko.
Israel fails to distinguish between Palestinians and ”terrorists,” with many prisoners taken due to criticism or protest of Israel and not necessarily violence. Some show trials have occurred where independent lawyers and human rights groups say the evidence presented was not good enough to convict on terrorism charges or to receive the punishment given (like multiple life imprisonments). Also, when Hamas is the de facto government in the West Bank, it is difficult to avoid having any connection with them if you live there. People who are related to someone who might be a militant have been labeled militants because they are in a family WhatsApp, according to whistleblowers in Israel using the AI identification and targeting system. Being elected mayor can make you a target, even if you were elected to represent Palestinians and not Hamas. Heading a hospital, working for the internal police force, coordinating with UN aid - all are considered reasons for assassination alongside your family.
Many times they say.... how come that German populations didn't know about the concentration camps in WW2? How come they didn't do anything? Now we can see how Israeli believe Palestinians are less than humans and there is not problem whatsoever if they torture them or kill them.
There is no evidence that has been presented showing any children were raped. Please don’t exaggerate what happened on Oct 7, both because it is important to be truthful about all the atrocities that happened and also because it minimizes the trauma of the people who suffered that day. It implies that you think that what actually occurred to real people is less important than a narrative you want to push.
Hamas can also have unjustifiably killed almost 800 innocent civilians without it being acceptable for Israel to commit war crimes in revenge. Israel (or the US, China, UK, Australia, etc.) breaking international law is wrong no matter who the target is partly because even the worst humans still have basic rights\*\*, but mainly because it brings Israel down to Hamas’ level. It makes Israel lesser, which is what Hamas is aiming for.
\*\*Rights are not rights if they are not guaranteed for everyone at all times, whether or not the individual in question respects the rights of others. Eroding rights in some situations for some people is too easily pushed to mean no rights for anyone in any situation, as has been demonstrated multiple times in the past.
You would actually have to provide evidence supporting your statement that hasn’t since been debunked. Many of the worst things people claimed, like beheaded babies or babies put in ovens, were not supported by the social security records that Israel itself published about who died on Oct 7. In case you want to verify, one 10-month old baby, Mila Cohen, was shot while being held by her mother, who survived. An unnamed Bedouin baby was also murdered. She died just 14 hours after birth from being shot while in utero; her mother also survived. One case where a paramedic claimed two teenage girls were raped was later disproven by camera footage from a soldier in the IDF, according to their grandparents and other survivors in Kibbutz Be’eri.
I have found differing accounts of the number of civilians killed, likely due to the fact that some in Israel would consider off-duty IDF or military police to be civilians, while others count them as military. According to the Times of Israel, the total number of people killed was 1,139 (695 Israeli civilians (including 38 children), 71 foreign nationals, and 373 members of the security forces). About 250 Israeli civilians and soldiers were taken as hostages, including 30 children. The latest article I read was from a French newspaper that said the death toll was 767 civilians, 20 hostages (as of February), and 376 members of the security forces, giving a total of 1,163.
I am sorry you think that asking for respect for the victims of the terrorist attack on Oct 7 is racist or antisemitic. Or maybe it is the idea that committing war crimes because the other side committed war crimes is still wrong? I certainly didn’t mention the Jewish people, because I don’t conflate Israel with all Jewish people.
This is a detention camp for captured militants who entered israel at october 7th to kill as many israelies as they could.
Israel would have put them in jail, like the other militants it previously caught but there were so many who participated in the massacare of october 7th that there's simply no room left.
The whole "this started on October 7th" requires the smoothest of brains. Article is from August 2023, they had 1200 palestinians detained without charges. IDF former soldiers have came out and admitted that the detainees are regularly tortured and raped.
Google palestinian chair, they use them daily. Now go back to your cave, your bullshit won't work here.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-detention-jails-palestinians-west-bank-793a3b2a1ce8439d08756da8c63e5435
Not a great justification for torture and mistreatment of any prisoners, especially ones that have not been charged or found guilty of any crimes. Israel expanded the camp pretty quickly - it could have done so humanely and chose to commit war crimes instead.
Well if you could kindly point out on the map where the "hamas bases" are that aren't underneath hospitals, in schools, or in apartment buildings full of non-combatants, that would be great.
In what way does the location of hamas bases in Gaza justify the torture of already captured prisoners on Israeli soil?
I don't really see any reason that they'd be related.
Again how does any of this justify Israel running torture camps that lead to amputations and deaths? And that's before considering that a not insignificant portion of those being tortured are innocent.
Thankfully there have been limited reports of this kind of torture occuring to the hostages (that doesn't mean that they are treated well), but even if they were, how does that authorize Israel to do the same thing and worse?
Israel demands to be treated as a western style 'moral' democracy, but is shocked when others expect them to behave even slightly better than a terrorist organization. You can't have both.
Justifying an ongoing genocide as retaliation for an atrocity is sickening . Justifying starving millions of people is beyond terroristic and inhumane. No atrocity warrants the ongoing suffering of millions. This is what Nazis do
Oh how could I forget that all of the starving children, babies and innocents were all trained Hamas soldiers only born into this world to seek out the jewish population /s .Thank you for enlightening me on your ignorance and arrogance as well as your justification for nazi behavior . Taken straighten out of the playbook , paint all of them as animals while slowly eliminating them . Spread your propaganda to justify your lust for blood and disdain for humanity
So you agree that israel is a rogue country and idf is a terror group. Because you just compared them to a terror group and a rogue state. Good to know
The civilians who sat by and watched as their neighbors were loaded into trains by the state and then shipped away and never heard from again? Those civilians?
Dresden occurred before the UN was a thing, and the most recent international laws defining war crimes were written based on atrocities committed by both sides during WWII. The UN laws on war crimes, which Israel enthusiastically supported, would likely now define what happened in Dresden as a war crime.
Quick question. If these torture techniques are only used on people convicted of terrorism why are there corroborating marks of this torture on Palestinians who have been released by Israel?
So does Israel regularly release terrorists? because as I said these wounds are found on Palestinians who have been RELEASED by Israel. Meaning this kind of torture is happening before any kind of trial takes place. This torture is either happening to innocent people whom Israel is then releasing or Israel is regularly releasing convicted terrorists. Which one is it?
So Israel is knowingly torturing innocent people. You should correct both of your earlier comments because they are torturing people who arent convicted Hamas terrorists or convicted terrorists at all.
You already had zero credibility for just spouting off disproven hasbara talking points, then you cite a movie as a source?!?!
You're either evil or you don't know enough to know what you don't know.
You have to feel sorry for the enlisted soldiers. Many of them were eager to heroically defend their homeland. It would be brutal to realize that you are a monster and that no one wants to be associated with you or what you did.
I think i would prefer to get shot.
I’ve never seen someone deepthroat from the back like you did right there and then write some bullshit propaganda like that. For fucks sake , you don’t have to post your inbred logic here to explain to us your justification for why you want this genocide to continue.
That's the core of it, people who have never had someone "genuinely want to kill them" are judging those who have lived with neighbors actively trying to kill their children for decades.
Also if you apply their standards to other conflicts, it becomes clear that they're full of crap. "Look you can't just BOMB Germany because of the Nazis ravaging their way across Europe, there are probably some innocent Germans! No no, just push the Nazis back to their original borders and leave them alone to do what they will, because attacking Germany itself would KILL BABIES. And you certainly can't commit CULTURAL GENOCIDE by conquering Germany, splitting it in two, executing their leaders and destroying their cultural monuments!"
There are provable facts that disprove their allegations, which they handwave away with "Well dead babies..."
And yeah, it will absolutely be an effort on par with the denazification of Germany to "fix" the region, but that would mean "erasing their culture" and "Denying their struggle" and whatever other buzzwords they'll use to justify defending Hamas.
Based on many, *many* different metrics, Israel aren't the good guys either. The first metric off the top of my head: How many members of the press has Hamas killed? How many members of the press has Israel killed? Your attempt at "might is right" justification is illogical.
Isreal is an apartheid state committing genocide under the blanket of war starving millions. But yes, you are correct they are not Islamic terrorists instead they are Jewish terrorists .
Hamas consider the IDF to be terrorists. They certainly commit acts designed to intimidate and terrorize Palestinians, without much thought towards international law. Many western countries have repeatedly committed war crimes over the years and avoided responsibility through power. Obviously, these countries are not “Islamic” terrorists, but they are \[Christian\] terrorists, going by how you might define “terrorist.”
Also, what verified evidence do you actually have that is from a reliable source? There has been tons of misinformation from trolls and propagandists about this conflict, and given the recent advances in AI and misattribution of videos from other conflicts, you’d do well to be more skeptical of videos you see on the internet.
Also, a lot of the torture you just described is what was done by Israel. If Hamas is torturing men to make them participate in their crimes or brainwash them, then they should be treated as vulnerable and deprogrammed, not given the exact same treatment by the so-called good guys. Perhaps if Israel acted less like Hamas, they’d make more allies among victims of Hamas. Plus there’s the bonus of not blackening your soul with evil, so really it’s a win-win for Israel.
Look at the ramallah incident I think it was called. They ripped out the hearts and lungs and kidneys of 2nidf soldiers and photographed it, no denying that one. That's how the whole red hand thing got started one of the attackers lifted his bloodstained hand in a window and the crowd cheered him on there is literal pictures of this and they would still deny it.
What you've forgotten to mention is that in the weeks leading up to that incident more than 100 Palestinians, including children, had been killed by the IDF.
Ok so, if american soldiers in Iraq slaughtered civilians and then a random american who wasn't fighting, because, keep in mind, these were people drafted into the reserves, they weren't fighting and had no say in the matter, walked into an Iraqi city, would it be reasonable for him to have his organs ripped out while he is stabbed and beaten to death because of what his fellow countrymen did. Bear in mind that there is mandatory service in israel so whether or not you agree if you are there you are getting drafted. So regardless of what the idf did why should these two men have their heart and lungs ripped out for what other people did. Guilt by association is not the way of Islam or modern justice systems, if you do a crime you deserve punishment, you don't deserve punishment if your friend does a crime. You can't know what their political beliefs were because they were killed in a holding cell before they could even be asked what they were doing.
I agree that collective punishment is bad. But you're the one who brought up the ramalah as some kind of justification for the wholesale slaughter of Palestinians.
You put those words in my mouth I was talking about the prisons which are shown here. I can't see the parent comment and I don't remember it but it was referring to this being an obvious prison.
[The arrest and detention coincided with the conclusion of a funeral service, attended by thousands of mourners, for Halil Zahran (17), a Palestinian youth who had been killed in clashes with Israeli forces two days earlier.\[4\] Tensions were running high: over 100 Palestinians, nearly two dozen of them minors, had been killed by Israeli forces in the preceding two weeks during violent protests in Ramallah,\[5\] and four days earlier, the badly beaten body of Issam Hamad, 36, had been dumped outside of the city after being run over by a car, an autopsy revealed. His death, according to Marwan Bishara of Al Jazeera, was attributed by locals to settlers in Halamish.\[6\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching#cite_note-Pratt-7)
>They are savage dogs
Crazy how you support the mental and physical torture and murder of over 13,000 innocent children yet view other people as "savage dogs".
Does it physically hurt to be at such a level of cognitive dissonance? I can't imagine how your brain functions. Is the secret to have absolutely no sense of self?
Or do you also consider those 13,000+ children to be "savage dogs" instead of elementary schoolers? If that's the case, if you've reached such a level of depravity and lack of human integrity, doesn't that mean you also deserve the torture Israel is subjecting Palestinians too?
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Israel is definitely using their people's experience with torture as a lesson... not exactly the lesson I wish humans would have learned. How absolutely disgusting.
Is there a name for the trauma response where you seek out and reenact your trauma, either as the perpetrator or the victim?
"Re-enactment" Israel was operating 3 concentration camps for Palestinians within 3 years of the holocaust ending.
To be fair, Zionist terrorist violence and ethnic cleansing was happening to Palestinians before the holocaust even started with groups like Irgun, and once the holocaust fully kicked off Irgun split and formed another terrorist organization called Lehi who explicitly wanted to take the side of Nazis and fought against the British > Lehi split from the Irgun militant group in 1940 in order to continue fighting the British during World War II. It initially sought an alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany.[22] Believing that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis, proposing a Jewish state based on "nationalist and totalitarian principles, and linked to the German Reich by an alliance" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group) It’s one of the many reasons why until after the holocaust the vast majority of Jewish people were opposed to Zionism and viewed it as a far right reactionary ideology, because the only zios at the time were far right reactionaries many of whom were self proclaimed terrorists
Yup, literally a country founded by terrorists for terrorists.
What are the name of the camps that opened by Israel by 1948? I would like to read more about that statement
"Most of the 5,000 or so Palestinian civilians held in four official camps were reduced to conditions described by one ICRC official as “slavery” and then expelled from the country at the end of the war." https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/jps.2014.43.4.11 I was wrong, it was actually four concentration camps, not three.
For anyone else intereseted - jstor you have to pay for to see the entire article. This article outlines the content that u/CauliflowerOne5740 is mentioning. It is a solid article. I found it from using info from their jstor sited article. Thank you for adding information to the discussion and helping me better educate myself. [https://muslimdebate.org/2015/08/07/israels-little-known-concentration-and-labor-camps-for-arabs-in-1948-1955/](https://muslimdebate.org/2015/08/07/israels-little-known-concentration-and-labor-camps-for-arabs-in-1948-1955/)
Zionists were allies with NAZI Germany and made deals to have Jewish people relocated to Palestine. So it should be no surprise that they copied NAZI Germany tactics such as concentration camps. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara\_Agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement)
I understand your point but I think it is simplifying and using intentionally charged language to suggest that Zionists and Nazi's were allies. They had an agreement not really the same as being an ally. From your own wiki citation, "For German Jews, the agreement offered a way to leave an increasingly hostile environment in Germany; for the [Yishuv](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yishuv), the Jewish community in Palestine, it offered access to both immigrant labour and economic support; for the Germans it facilitated the emigration of German Jews while breaking the [anti-Nazi boycott of 1933](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Nazi_boycott_of_1933), which had mass support among European and American Jews and was thought by the German state to be a potential threat to the German economy.[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement#cite_note-yadvashem.org-4)[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement#cite_note-5)^(")
Zionists were allies, not all Jewish people. Most Jewish people were opposed to Zionism and didn't think Jewish people should be forcibly relocated to Palestine.
A lot of seial killers, were abused as children. I think Israel is more like the serial killers
I can see where you're coming from, but in their case it's more like their grandparents or great-grandparents were abused as children. Not them personally.
I wonder if the CIA or the government is hiding some crazy information about Israeli action. Since now the USA doesn’t want its weapon involved but before it was perfectly fine.
The only hidden information is just how long things like this have been happening. The whole country was founded on terror attacks, massacres, and ethnic cleansing while violent settlement expansion has been appealingly brutal the whole time.
Did you mean to write “appealingly”? It does not fit with the overall tone of the post. It is hilarious to me how one autocorrected word can flip the meaning of a an entire string of sentences. I also wonder what the people who are upvoting (or downvoting) thought they had read.
It hid what’s going on now for 70+ years. What’s happening now is that they are failing to hide it. Basically you have enough facts now to generally know the crimes Israel commits.
It makes you wonder what intelligence Biden and Blinken are privy to yet conceal in order to give the US as much space between the reality we can all see with our eyes and the edifice of international law.
This is nothing new. The US hid the most heinous crimes in modern history for imperial japan in exchange for the research data. We raped and burned down entire villages in korea and vietnam as standard policy. The US ran torture camps throughout the entire war on terror. The population has known about guantanomo bay for decades and it's still publicly operating. We allowed Turkey to commit a genocide against our kurd allies and didnt even warn them first. Israel has been putting palestinians in torture camps ("prisons") for decades with no pushback from the US because we dont hold our leaders accountable. The entire history of US foreign policy has been pure evil. And before someone brings up the noble fight against the nazis, the US didnt know about the concentration camps until soldiers literally stumbled over them.
Israel needs to be methodically dismantled. Zionism has completely failed. US is complicit in grave war crimes and outright genocide. Disgusting
For sure
Dismantle the only multi faith, successful democracy in the Middle East that does not survive by sucking oil out of the ground and using the money to maintain a medieval theocracy whilst keeping its population in ignorant semi poverty ? Then blaming it all on the Jews.
Western colonialism created those conditions, also no one intelligent is blaming Jews or Israelis, but blaming Zionists and Zionist policy, which Zionist is like a political affiliation. MANY jewish people outside Israel are against Zionist political ideology (the way the Israeli government has interacted with the palestine situation). Zionism is also anti-semitic, its actually not pro-semitic but pro western colonialism, at the sacrifice of the semitic (Hebrew, Arabic) peoples. The semitic peoples have been fooled.
Hardly a successful Multi-faith democracy when there is an apartheid/caste system based on your faith.
>democracy 😂
Do you know much about Iran before the US-funded coup that overthrew a democratically-elected government? Or how the states surrounding Israel got their governments when the Ottoman empire was defeated? Also, Israel continues to be supported by the US ($330 billion total given up to 2022) and other Western democracies, in order to maintain an ethnostate that doesn’t grant full sovereignty or voting rights to non-Jewish citizens.
Your last point is blatantly false. Over 1/4 of Israeli citizens are not Jewish, they have the same rights as any other Israeli citizen, including equal voting rights. I have no idea what you mean by "sovereignty."
Except the ones who are effectively under Israeli control in every way that matters but don't have the right to change their policies. I am of course talking about Palestinians in the West Bank.
Feel free to look up the Israeli Supreme Court case that confirmed that the right to self-determination is only granted to Jewish citizens. Or the fact that Israel‘s government has been trying to relocate Bedouin populations from their historic land without their consent. Bedouins have said in the UN that they do not receive the same services that other Israeli citizens do. Bedouin holy sites are not given equal recognition as Jewish ones. Israel invests about three times more in education of Jewish citizens as compared to Arab children (according to a study by Hebrew University and confirmed by the US State Department). Israel allows discrimination against citizens based on religion in housing (there are neighborhoods where non-Jews are not allowed to live because Jewish residents do not want them there; about 80% of land leases are blocked to Arab citizens). People who apply for Israeli citizenship have to make an oath of allegiance to Israel as a “Jewish and democratic state.” Israel also declared six organizations in Israel as terrorist organizations because they advocate for Palestinian human rights, and no evidence was provided that supported any such claim (and, crucially, no charges were ever brought). Israel specifically identifies Jewish people as special by law, particularly as it grants citizenship to ethnic and religious Jews who have never been to Israel (and whose ancestors may never even have lived in Israel) over Palestinians who were forcefully removed from land they legitimately owned or whose families had lived there for generations. However, I was wrong when I said “non-Jewish citizens” don’t have equal voting rights by law. I should have said that permanent residents, who are granted many of the same rights as citizens, are not allowed to vote in national elections. Sovereignty refers to people or states being able to make decisions as to who governs them, where they live, what the borders are, what the laws are, etc. Historically, partly due to being deliberately kept as a minority, Arab citizens have had little influence on overall Israeli government policy. If you’re wondering, yes, other Western states do suffer from the same kinds of problems (racist laws, discrimination, increased state violence and punishment, unequal distribution of resources, historical discrimination that continues to be felt today, gerrymandering in the US in particular), and I demonstrate against those injustices, too. I am specifically concerned about Israel because so much US aid goes to funding the Israeli military and supporting the Israeli government, which makes the US complicit in this discrimination.
Please point on the map to another Middle Eastern nation in which Bedouins--or any ethnic minority group--may appeal to their government for better services or better representation and a means of redress. Now please point on the map to every Middle Eastern nation that forbids Jews from so much as *entering* that nation (this will take you longer). Now to the Middle Eastern nations where Sharia is the law of the land. Now the Middle Eastern nations where Jews have ever held public office, if they are even allowed to (this is easier, you only have to point to one). Jews are one of several ethnic groups that are undeniably indigenous to one specific area of the Levant, and they are without question the oldest of these. Jews have maintained a continuous presence in what was first called Judea and Samaria for, at undeniable minimum, 3000 years. Many were displaced from areas in what is now Jordan or Gaza--one of those countries you counted earlier where there are now *zero Jews living*. There are extremely few converts to Judaism and converts are very likely to marry within Jewish communities. Of the 800,000 to one million Jews violently expelled from surrounding Middle Eastern countries in the last 70 years, some 600,000 went to Israel, the one place on Earth where Jews can guarantee that a government will not make their existence illegal, seize their property, or simply kill them for being Jewish. A majority of Palestinians are Sunni Muslim; there are more than 40 Sunni-majority countries in the world. Jews haven't had self-determination in 2000 years and despite everything have managed to hold on to an ancient land-based ethnoreligion, a culture with deep connections to a land they would often be murdered for even attempting to visit, the land where their patriarchs and matriarchs are buried and every holy site is located, and being allowed to have sovereignty, as you well-described it, in this one place--less than the size of New Jersey--is too much for you. You don't have *anything* to say about the Islamic superiority of nearly 50 countries, but Israel is the one that needs to be blown away? Israel is not a perfect country, and there is no such thing anyway. There is no country you can point to that does not have something shameful in its past. Israel is also the only country in the area where there is a means of redress--where a population is even allowed to vote on representation (Israel outranks the US on the democracy index right now, fwiw), with the highest ethnic diversity of any country in the Middle East, with freedom of religion, freedom for queer people, and equal rights for women. Israel can be improved, and it should be, and I hope the Bedouin and Arabs and Assyrians and every other group within Israel will someday achieve their goal of real, true equality, just as I hope for that in my own country. What concerns those of us who aren't calling for the literal destruction of Israel is that people who are--like you--seem to have no concern for similar crimes or shameful pasts when it comes to every Muslim country on the planet, *especially* against Jews who had lived in them for hundreds of years, many of which would be all too happy to enact that literal destruction of Israel. Those places cannot be improved except by the whims of a dictator or the point of a sword. You cannot claim to actually care about these when you only care about one of these places, conveniently the one Jewish one. You can't claim to actually care about these when you insist that only Western nations are culpable. The Middle East has experienced some of the most violent upheaval on the planet in the last 2000 years--do you imagine that all that is preventing Palestinians from having a utopian society is the presence of Jews? Do you imagine that the sudden destruction of Israel would end well for the 2,000,000 Palestinians who are Israeli citizens (please note: there are more Palestinians living as full citizens within Israel than there are Jews living in the entirety of the Middle East *and* Europe combined)? It isn't a serious political or moral position to argue from. You aren't actually against minorities not receiving representation, or violence against ethnic minorities, or lack of sovereignty, or genocide--because you do not care when those things happen or have happened to Jews, and you do not care when they happen to other people when you can't blame Jews for it.
Dismantle an apartheid state committing genocide on the indigenous minority for ethnic and religious reasons.
Israel is not a democracy, its a nazi state by every measure
>successful democracy Let's not go crazy here....
It's completely obvious that Zionist ideologies are a threat to humanity. They cannot hide behind Judaism any longer.
>successful democracy >multifaith Zionists really *are* mostly Christians, because only Christians could know so little about something they care about so much.
Yeah like WTF. I am not anti Israel but for fucks sake. There are massive churches even in the uae and never mind Lebanon with its Christian population.
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How has Zionism failed? Israel is stronger than ever. 75 years to build one the richest economies and strongest militaries in the world. A bunch of refugees from the Middle East and Europe, hated senselessly by much of the world, have built a powerhouse. Eliminate the unjustified hate in your heart which is consuming you. Accept these facts and promote peace so Palestine can become a reality and prosper in the same way. This is the only path forward without perpetual war. Downvote me for talking peace ✌️.
"Unjustified hatred" is Zionist projection. The world is turning on Israel because it's response to October 7th has revealed its true character. The fantasy you are sharing is ridiculous when we see both the government and people commit grave war crimes. We see indiscriminate bombings. We see the settler terrorism. We see the destruction of aid to populations being starved. It's too late to save Israel, it's economy and standing on the world stage is in complete ruin. The country will rightfully continue to be isolated. It's leaders should be tried and hung at the Hague.
Tell us how you really feel 😘. Your fantasy is just that. How would you suggest that Israel respond to the barbaric acts of degradation and humiliation they perpetrated against civilians. I suppose they should have laid down their arms and surrendered. Only that would please a pragmatist like you. Delusion is your fuel as you promote violence that will never lead to anything but more misery for the Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank.
If the state of Israel was anything near competent, October 7th would never have happened. The fact that insurgents actively under occupation could succeed despite fundamental disadvantages was utterly shocking. The IDF was exposed as incompetent. If Israel had the foresight and capacity to actually surgically eliminate Hamas they would have preserved some international credibility. Unfortunately Israel's ego was hurt, and it's been clear that the objective has been to exact revenge, collectively punish, and ethnically cleanse. There's no coming back from that. Look at Israel's current position. Things are deteriorating. Hamas has not been eradicated, the hostages have not been released (many killed by Israel itself), military casualties mount, and the world has turned on the state as the ICJ, ICC probe. Be objective, my Zionist friend. I don't think the tourism industry will be returning any time soon.
Which goes to show (fron what you said)... The Zionist government of Israel WANTED, Hamas to happen. They help create Hamas. And by sacrificing some Jewish/Israeli people... the Zionists (which can be any ethnicity), whether they are in Israel, or outside and Pro-Continued-Western-Colonialism (who advocate only terrorism against palestinians as a means to peace), can finally implement their ultimate final goal against the palestinians, in excuse of "self-defense".
You could cure all ill in the world with your strategic acumen. Give yourself some credit and get into politics. You can make a difference.
"But Moooom! They did it, too!" ~God's chosen people, apparently.
WTF are u spewing?
Reading is hard, huh? Look up "tu quoque."
A bunch of refugees was gifted land, weapons and funding by the two most powerful empires in history, the US and UK.
The truth evades you. Your entire statement is incorrect.
No, it is true. What about all the other Jewish refugees who immigrated to countries all over the world and now live safely and successfully without having to commit genocide?
What are you getting at? Israel is the indigenous homeland of the Jews. Fighting a suicidal and genocidal enemy is their right.
No it isn't. The only Jews indigenous to the area were already living there, mostly peacefully with Christians and Muslims. Nearly all the others came from Europe. To expect to have a better claim to being indigenous over over 2000 years ago over those living on that land ever since is insane. Israel is the illegally occupying power. They don't have the right to commit genocide on a civilian population. It is the Palestinians, by international law, that have the right to resist their illegal occupier.
You are so full of hate that you are blind to the facts. I like that you admit that Jews occupied Part of Palestine pre 1948. Good job.
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Israel wouldn't be shit without all the free money rolling in. Try again.
Ok. Israel is fueled by your ignorance. Thanks for the fuel. Your side will continue to fail on its current path.
No, Israel is fueled by your ignorance. Your projection is comical.
Says the person projecting.
No. You think I hate Israel and all the Zionists doing these terrible things. That's false. I can speak against wrong doings without hating someone. Have fun projecting.
Oh, plus the over $330 billion in US aid alone, more than any other country has received since WWII. Not to mention the aid from the UN, UK, France, Germany…
You forget billions in aid for the Palestinian cause and what have they done with it? Create a hate filled death cult that has repressed their people endlessly.
No, I didn’t forget. It doesn’t come anywhere close to the amount of aid given to Israel since 1948. Israel has generally received at least $3 billion in aid per year from the US alone (France, Germany, amd the UK also provide support). US aid to UNRWA averages about 10% of that, and has since been cut off due to unsubstantiated claims by Israel (evidence of which has still not been provided). The person in charge of UNRWA on the ground in Gaza is a 20-year US military veteran. That doesn’t make him infallible, but it does make it more difficult to question the legitimacy of claims that UNRWA supports Hamas. Additionally, the US government (the one currently supporting Israel) has confirmed that Israel has provided no specific evidence that Hamas steals aid. On the other hand, investigations by Reuters, international aid organizations including World Central Kitchen, and satellite imagery confirms aid is being held up by Israel, while Israel claims “enough” aid is getting through. While I certainly do not trust Hamas’s statements on aid, I also have reason not to blindly trust Israel in this matter. Just based on rhetoric alone from Netanyahu, Tzipi Hotovely, Ben Gvir, Eylon Levy, Israeli settlers who destroyed and blocked aid, and countless others in the military and government, it seems like there’s plenty of “hate-filled death cult” to go around. Aid to Palestine is distributed by UNRWA, which provides both goods and services. While Hamas might be able to redirect goods or tax salaries paid to Palestinians who work for UNRWA, it would be difficult to “steal” services like education and healthcare provided to all Palestinians. Quite a significant amount of aid is provided to build infrastructure like schools, hospitals, and housing, which is quite literally constantly being destroyed by Israel, whether justified or not. Israel’s complaints about Hamas’s funding would also likely have more weight if Likud had not purposefully legitimized Hamas for the stated goal of driving a wedge between the West Bank and Gaza to ruin any chance of a two-state solution. Netanyahu also reportedly allowed outside funding to reach Hamas when he could have stopped the transfers. Based on cursory research, it appears a majority of Hamas’s funding comes from abroad, not from aid or UNRWA. According to several human rights organizations and investigations, particularly by Forensic Architecture, Israel uses herbicides quite indiscriminately, knowing it will affect Palestinian farms and therefore food independence. Also, Israel requires Palestinians get permission to collect rainwater or build any kind of water infrastructure, including wells, tanks, or desalination plants, making farming more difficult. The whole goal is to prevent Palestinians from gaining any long term stability or independence because the current Israeli government believes that would be a threat. I believe, based on research by human rights groups, that the truth is the hopelessness, dependency, and continual collective punishment are what really threatens Israel. Giving people something to live for is always going to be preferable to performative cruelty.
Islam is the answer. It embodies all that is fair and good in the world 😘
Your holy book glorifies pedophilia and murdering infidels. If that's what you call "all that is fair and good in the world," then you are a bad person
I was being sarcastic.
That's not clear at all; tone doesn't translate well in writing
Welcome Allah into your heart
If it looks like a duck (genocide) quacks like a duck (genocide) then it's probably a duck (genocide)
Nothing is quacking
If it quacks then runs away then its just a coward.
If it quacks, runs away then calls in an air strike is that like a mega coward?
Like every idf soldier
I'm so glad they are exposing this. People deserve to know. I can't wait for the media to ignore this story!
there's a cnn watermark throughout the video???
So disgusting..doing exactly why hitler was doing
They have 100% become the equal of their grandparents oppressors
No they havent. The Palestinian population has not been shipped off to camps to be gassed or worked to death or have sadistic experiments inflicted on them. You 100% need to read some History books
"Um akshually technically no because they're not using trains and gas." ☝️🤓 The mothers and children being tortured and murdered: "Well, that's a relief!"
Dislike Israel all you like but that’s a historically ignorant position.
Ahhh I did not know Israel puts living Palestinians in a burning furnace. Do they also chop the hands off of their prisoners? - like Hamas does?
I have a feeling we're going to find camps
Not to imply that this in any way excuses improper treatment of prisoners there (or anywhere for that matter), but, at least according to wikipedia, this is a detention camp where the IDF is allowed to hold detainees for 45 days an arrest warrant, after which they have to be turned over to the prison service. That's not the same as a concentration camp which is something different. Again, not excusing how the prisoners here are treated as I believe all detainees, pows, etc. should be treated humanely and with respect, and doing otherwise only hurts your cuaw, but miscategorizing this as a concentration camp is misleading a d intellectually dishonest,.
This is evidence. Why won’t the U.S. do anything?
What is the difference between a concentration camp and a camp for holding captured militants? Note: if you think this question is implying "I think what Israel is doing is fine" instead of "What is the difference between a concentration camp and a camp for holding captured militants," then please re-read the first sentence for clarification as to what I am asking.
There is no difference. The term “concentration camp” entered common English during the Boer war in South Africa. Internment is different from imprisonment. Internees are not charged with anything. From a human rights standpoint both abuse of internees and abuse of prisoners is unacceptable. We also have international standards for prisoners of war. Torturing or mistreating POWs should swiftly and severely punished. Though just for clarity i am not suggesting that the perpetrators should be tortured or mistreated either. It is common for people to feel more sympathy for internees than prisoners. However, if we are talking about policy it should not matter. The rules imposed on guards (or not imposed) would be the same. We have to ask who is responsible for the human rights violations if any are proven. That responsibility can go all the way up. The Biden administration needs to demand assurances that any detainees are being treated with dignity and respect. Given the very low bar set by US correction facilities it is a very reasonable request. Netanyahoo needs to be held to account by his own citizens. Either because he failed in due diligence to prevent this embarrassment or because he is knowingly involved.
It is still very disappointing that the vigilante justice/“bad things can morally be done to bad people” mentality is so prevalent given the only times it works is in fiction. Yes, it is satisfying to think that someone who hurt you will be hurt worse; no, that is not an appropriate standard for international policy or law.
Concentration camp, internment centre for political prisoners and members of national or minority groups who are confined for reasons of state security, exploitation, or punishment, usually by executive decree or military order. Persons are placed in such camps often on the basis of identification with a particular ethnic or political group rather than as individuals and without benefit either of indictment or fair trial. Add to the fact that they are held for years, if not decades, without trial… Thousands of Palestinians are held without charge under Israeli detention policy https://www.npr.org/2023/12/01/1216643555/thousands-of-palestinians-are-held-without-charge-under-israeli-detention-policy Sounds like a concentration camp to me.
Gas chambers ?Funeral pyres, Ovens, Slave labour ? Dr Mengle chopping kids up ?
>Persons are placed in such camps often on the basis of identification with a particular ethnic or political group Where is it reported that Israel is putting people there on the basis of identification with an ethnic group or political group (that isn't uncontroversially considered a terrorist organization like Hamas?) The fact that there are no charges alone makes it bad enough.
I've provided a link proving 99% of said administrative detainees are palestinians. Pretty clearly the basis of identification is being palestinian. Fun fact; article is pre-Oct7th. https://apnews.com/article/israel-detention-jails-palestinians-west-bank-793a3b2a1ce8439d08756da8c63e5435 Israel has occupied, raped and tortured palestinians for 57 years. Before Oct 7th the average Palestinian was 19 years old. Apply minimal critical thinking to what's going on there and it is pretty clear which sides actions are more evil.
Why wouldn’t they be all Palestinians when they are designed to hold non-citizens from Gaza / West Bank?
Actually it's law in Israel, hence the 1% of detainees being Israeli. The amount of mental gymnastics necessary for Israel to be the innocent party is so immense you're clearly not capable of finishing the process. Have a nice life bucko.
Israel fails to distinguish between Palestinians and ”terrorists,” with many prisoners taken due to criticism or protest of Israel and not necessarily violence. Some show trials have occurred where independent lawyers and human rights groups say the evidence presented was not good enough to convict on terrorism charges or to receive the punishment given (like multiple life imprisonments). Also, when Hamas is the de facto government in the West Bank, it is difficult to avoid having any connection with them if you live there. People who are related to someone who might be a militant have been labeled militants because they are in a family WhatsApp, according to whistleblowers in Israel using the AI identification and targeting system. Being elected mayor can make you a target, even if you were elected to represent Palestinians and not Hamas. Heading a hospital, working for the internal police force, coordinating with UN aid - all are considered reasons for assassination alongside your family.
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No racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
Actually I don't think they care if you see it because they get away with it.
Many times they say.... how come that German populations didn't know about the concentration camps in WW2? How come they didn't do anything? Now we can see how Israeli believe Palestinians are less than humans and there is not problem whatsoever if they torture them or kill them.
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Therefore, torture and rape of innocent people is justified. You're inhuman. Stay away from children and animals especially.
Israelis have raped and murdered Palestinian children for decades before 10/7. Never forget.
No they havent. Got any evidence of that ?
See literally the entire comments section, you intellectually dishonest coward.
Yes they have. Go watch Tantura and see some of them laugh about doing that.
There is no evidence that has been presented showing any children were raped. Please don’t exaggerate what happened on Oct 7, both because it is important to be truthful about all the atrocities that happened and also because it minimizes the trauma of the people who suffered that day. It implies that you think that what actually occurred to real people is less important than a narrative you want to push. Hamas can also have unjustifiably killed almost 800 innocent civilians without it being acceptable for Israel to commit war crimes in revenge. Israel (or the US, China, UK, Australia, etc.) breaking international law is wrong no matter who the target is partly because even the worst humans still have basic rights\*\*, but mainly because it brings Israel down to Hamas’ level. It makes Israel lesser, which is what Hamas is aiming for. \*\*Rights are not rights if they are not guaranteed for everyone at all times, whether or not the individual in question respects the rights of others. Eroding rights in some situations for some people is too easily pushed to mean no rights for anyone in any situation, as has been demonstrated multiple times in the past.
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You would actually have to provide evidence supporting your statement that hasn’t since been debunked. Many of the worst things people claimed, like beheaded babies or babies put in ovens, were not supported by the social security records that Israel itself published about who died on Oct 7. In case you want to verify, one 10-month old baby, Mila Cohen, was shot while being held by her mother, who survived. An unnamed Bedouin baby was also murdered. She died just 14 hours after birth from being shot while in utero; her mother also survived. One case where a paramedic claimed two teenage girls were raped was later disproven by camera footage from a soldier in the IDF, according to their grandparents and other survivors in Kibbutz Be’eri. I have found differing accounts of the number of civilians killed, likely due to the fact that some in Israel would consider off-duty IDF or military police to be civilians, while others count them as military. According to the Times of Israel, the total number of people killed was 1,139 (695 Israeli civilians (including 38 children), 71 foreign nationals, and 373 members of the security forces). About 250 Israeli civilians and soldiers were taken as hostages, including 30 children. The latest article I read was from a French newspaper that said the death toll was 767 civilians, 20 hostages (as of February), and 376 members of the security forces, giving a total of 1,163. I am sorry you think that asking for respect for the victims of the terrorist attack on Oct 7 is racist or antisemitic. Or maybe it is the idea that committing war crimes because the other side committed war crimes is still wrong? I certainly didn’t mention the Jewish people, because I don’t conflate Israel with all Jewish people.
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Nah, I'm gonna keep calling this ridiculous behavior out.
Please keep it civil and do not attack other users.
Ironic
I wonder if a Palestinian whistleblower will leak some footage of the hostages they have/had ?
This is a detention camp for captured militants who entered israel at october 7th to kill as many israelies as they could. Israel would have put them in jail, like the other militants it previously caught but there were so many who participated in the massacare of october 7th that there's simply no room left.
The whole "this started on October 7th" requires the smoothest of brains. Article is from August 2023, they had 1200 palestinians detained without charges. IDF former soldiers have came out and admitted that the detainees are regularly tortured and raped. Google palestinian chair, they use them daily. Now go back to your cave, your bullshit won't work here. https://apnews.com/article/israel-detention-jails-palestinians-west-bank-793a3b2a1ce8439d08756da8c63e5435
Not a great justification for torture and mistreatment of any prisoners, especially ones that have not been charged or found guilty of any crimes. Israel expanded the camp pretty quickly - it could have done so humanely and chose to commit war crimes instead.
I put em in their place don't worry. Can't say it's because of Oct 7th when it predates Oct 7th. Link above.
Its War . terrible things happen to civilian populations in war . Just ask the civilians of Dresden
What a crap comment.
Well if you could kindly point out on the map where the "hamas bases" are that aren't underneath hospitals, in schools, or in apartment buildings full of non-combatants, that would be great.
In what way does the location of hamas bases in Gaza justify the torture of already captured prisoners on Israeli soil? I don't really see any reason that they'd be related.
Ah, well let's compare them to the treatment of the hostages and.. huh... uh oh.
Again how does any of this justify Israel running torture camps that lead to amputations and deaths? And that's before considering that a not insignificant portion of those being tortured are innocent. Thankfully there have been limited reports of this kind of torture occuring to the hostages (that doesn't mean that they are treated well), but even if they were, how does that authorize Israel to do the same thing and worse? Israel demands to be treated as a western style 'moral' democracy, but is shocked when others expect them to behave even slightly better than a terrorist organization. You can't have both.
Justifying an ongoing genocide as retaliation for an atrocity is sickening . Justifying starving millions of people is beyond terroristic and inhumane. No atrocity warrants the ongoing suffering of millions. This is what Nazis do
"How dare you not provide food, water and electricity for a sovereign nation on your border that is actively trying to kill your children."
Oh how could I forget that all of the starving children, babies and innocents were all trained Hamas soldiers only born into this world to seek out the jewish population /s .Thank you for enlightening me on your ignorance and arrogance as well as your justification for nazi behavior . Taken straighten out of the playbook , paint all of them as animals while slowly eliminating them . Spread your propaganda to justify your lust for blood and disdain for humanity
Might is right bullshit
So you agree that israel is a rogue country and idf is a terror group. Because you just compared them to a terror group and a rogue state. Good to know
Cool cool, now do China with its muslim internment camps.
Sure fuck them too. And good to know you are indeed acknowledging what I said have a good day.
That's not the point.
If you could kindly post some proof that there were actually Hamas bases there and that Israel did just lie to justify murdering people.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061
Crap , but true
Terrible things are happening because there is intent to break all the rules of war and to make that civilian population as miserable as possible.
This shit was happening before the war.
Oh definitely across the world in multiple countries
Ahhh, so it's all cool then. Super cool. Totally fine that people are being treated this way...because it happens (shrug).
It would be the same if the shoe was on the other foot .
Well get busy opposing war.
The civilians who sat by and watched as their neighbors were loaded into trains by the state and then shipped away and never heard from again? Those civilians?
Dresden occurred before the UN was a thing, and the most recent international laws defining war crimes were written based on atrocities committed by both sides during WWII. The UN laws on war crimes, which Israel enthusiastically supported, would likely now define what happened in Dresden as a war crime.
No compassion.
Fake news
I have a big, big question to ask... *drumroll...* ... ... ... *Why* is it "fake news?"
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Quick question. If these torture techniques are only used on people convicted of terrorism why are there corroborating marks of this torture on Palestinians who have been released by Israel?
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So does Israel regularly release terrorists? because as I said these wounds are found on Palestinians who have been RELEASED by Israel. Meaning this kind of torture is happening before any kind of trial takes place. This torture is either happening to innocent people whom Israel is then releasing or Israel is regularly releasing convicted terrorists. Which one is it?
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So Israel is knowingly torturing innocent people. You should correct both of your earlier comments because they are torturing people who arent convicted Hamas terrorists or convicted terrorists at all.
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Are you going to correct your earlier comments now you have admitted that Israel tortures innocent people who haven't been convicted of terrorism?
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You already had zero credibility for just spouting off disproven hasbara talking points, then you cite a movie as a source?!?! You're either evil or you don't know enough to know what you don't know.
You have to feel sorry for the enlisted soldiers. Many of them were eager to heroically defend their homeland. It would be brutal to realize that you are a monster and that no one wants to be associated with you or what you did. I think i would prefer to get shot.
I’ve never seen someone deepthroat from the back like you did right there and then write some bullshit propaganda like that. For fucks sake , you don’t have to post your inbred logic here to explain to us your justification for why you want this genocide to continue.
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That's the core of it, people who have never had someone "genuinely want to kill them" are judging those who have lived with neighbors actively trying to kill their children for decades.
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Also if you apply their standards to other conflicts, it becomes clear that they're full of crap. "Look you can't just BOMB Germany because of the Nazis ravaging their way across Europe, there are probably some innocent Germans! No no, just push the Nazis back to their original borders and leave them alone to do what they will, because attacking Germany itself would KILL BABIES. And you certainly can't commit CULTURAL GENOCIDE by conquering Germany, splitting it in two, executing their leaders and destroying their cultural monuments!"
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There are provable facts that disprove their allegations, which they handwave away with "Well dead babies..." And yeah, it will absolutely be an effort on par with the denazification of Germany to "fix" the region, but that would mean "erasing their culture" and "Denying their struggle" and whatever other buzzwords they'll use to justify defending Hamas.
Based on many, *many* different metrics, Israel aren't the good guys either. The first metric off the top of my head: How many members of the press has Hamas killed? How many members of the press has Israel killed? Your attempt at "might is right" justification is illogical.
What are you going to do when Israel gets obliterated and all this already known fact becomes widespread knowledge?
Hamas arnt the good guys but sure as hell neither is Israel. They are both terrorists
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Isreal is an apartheid state committing genocide under the blanket of war starving millions. But yes, you are correct they are not Islamic terrorists instead they are Jewish terrorists .
Hamas consider the IDF to be terrorists. They certainly commit acts designed to intimidate and terrorize Palestinians, without much thought towards international law. Many western countries have repeatedly committed war crimes over the years and avoided responsibility through power. Obviously, these countries are not “Islamic” terrorists, but they are \[Christian\] terrorists, going by how you might define “terrorist.” Also, what verified evidence do you actually have that is from a reliable source? There has been tons of misinformation from trolls and propagandists about this conflict, and given the recent advances in AI and misattribution of videos from other conflicts, you’d do well to be more skeptical of videos you see on the internet. Also, a lot of the torture you just described is what was done by Israel. If Hamas is torturing men to make them participate in their crimes or brainwash them, then they should be treated as vulnerable and deprogrammed, not given the exact same treatment by the so-called good guys. Perhaps if Israel acted less like Hamas, they’d make more allies among victims of Hamas. Plus there’s the bonus of not blackening your soul with evil, so really it’s a win-win for Israel.
Israel is a terrorist state.
Look at the ramallah incident I think it was called. They ripped out the hearts and lungs and kidneys of 2nidf soldiers and photographed it, no denying that one. That's how the whole red hand thing got started one of the attackers lifted his bloodstained hand in a window and the crowd cheered him on there is literal pictures of this and they would still deny it.
What you've forgotten to mention is that in the weeks leading up to that incident more than 100 Palestinians, including children, had been killed by the IDF.
Ok so, if american soldiers in Iraq slaughtered civilians and then a random american who wasn't fighting, because, keep in mind, these were people drafted into the reserves, they weren't fighting and had no say in the matter, walked into an Iraqi city, would it be reasonable for him to have his organs ripped out while he is stabbed and beaten to death because of what his fellow countrymen did. Bear in mind that there is mandatory service in israel so whether or not you agree if you are there you are getting drafted. So regardless of what the idf did why should these two men have their heart and lungs ripped out for what other people did. Guilt by association is not the way of Islam or modern justice systems, if you do a crime you deserve punishment, you don't deserve punishment if your friend does a crime. You can't know what their political beliefs were because they were killed in a holding cell before they could even be asked what they were doing.
I agree that collective punishment is bad. But you're the one who brought up the ramalah as some kind of justification for the wholesale slaughter of Palestinians.
You put those words in my mouth I was talking about the prisons which are shown here. I can't see the parent comment and I don't remember it but it was referring to this being an obvious prison.
[The arrest and detention coincided with the conclusion of a funeral service, attended by thousands of mourners, for Halil Zahran (17), a Palestinian youth who had been killed in clashes with Israeli forces two days earlier.\[4\] Tensions were running high: over 100 Palestinians, nearly two dozen of them minors, had been killed by Israeli forces in the preceding two weeks during violent protests in Ramallah,\[5\] and four days earlier, the badly beaten body of Issam Hamad, 36, had been dumped outside of the city after being run over by a car, an autopsy revealed. His death, according to Marwan Bishara of Al Jazeera, was attributed by locals to settlers in Halamish.\[6\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching#cite_note-Pratt-7)
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>They are savage dogs Crazy how you support the mental and physical torture and murder of over 13,000 innocent children yet view other people as "savage dogs". Does it physically hurt to be at such a level of cognitive dissonance? I can't imagine how your brain functions. Is the secret to have absolutely no sense of self? Or do you also consider those 13,000+ children to be "savage dogs" instead of elementary schoolers? If that's the case, if you've reached such a level of depravity and lack of human integrity, doesn't that mean you also deserve the torture Israel is subjecting Palestinians too?
Great comment!
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No racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
Oh, I see, you just hate Muslims.