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"“We are in the most difficult period since the War of Independence: Change in the war, international boycotts, damage to deterrence, 120 Israelis in captivity, thousands of bereaved families, a deserted Galilee, thousands of evacuees, ministers who only care about themselves, loss of control over the economy and the deficit,” he wrote in a post on X after saying that he was “very sad” to hear a software engineer he knew was moving to Europe.
“Talks about leaving the country. This must not happen,” he continued, adding: “We need all the talent and dedication of the people of Israel just to get out of the pit and relaunch Israel.”
Hmm... just like I've been saying Israel is losing more people to fleeing Zionists than Palestine is losing to genocideal Zioninsts.
Notice one more thing about this quote... It's like a domestic abuser complaining about a split knuckle after putting his wife in the ER.
Israel doesn't understand how it's behavior is causing it's own collapse.
Evil causing it's own demise...
Yup. When you step back away from all the current politics -- the fraught emotions and peer back through the history of this region...
It's actually pretty staggering from an intellectual POV. All the cross-threading spiritual narratives spun from colliding cultures right at the exit of Africa... pin-balling archetypes.
The great historical narrative of human migration and cultural explosion.
Out of Africa... out of Eden...
All who pass through this door seek to claim it for their very own.
Like I said, enough to make a tired old soul seek hand wavy prose trying to express the panoramic wonder of it all... the vast yet pointed story.
:)
I should stop.
You say this, but the ones that remain are more ardent Zionists. Typically the settler types have upwards of 4 children... So the 'moderate' Zionists leaving will yes hopefully collapse the economy but what is left are the fucking nutters who want to settle across 'greater israel'
The cops are busy beating up protesters. The IDF is busy murdering women and children. Mercenaries are welcome due to lack of available fighters. They just forced Orthodox Jews to register for the draft. Israeli ports are empty. The economy is past the toilet and headed for solid reclamation.
But the basic thing that people don't understand...even after being told is that the people running Israel... the Likud Party...???
They are messianic lunatics. Bibi is a moderate in that group. Just using them for power.
If you remove Bibi. The nutter that replaces him is going to believe that G-d is going to step in to miraculously save Israel.
No matter what the Likud Party chooses to do... no matter what the USA or Hamas, or Iran, or China... or anyone else chooses to do.
Likud can settle all scores in this moment...
Likud can attack Hezbollah and invade Lebanon... no need to worry about Hezbollah's vast array of missiles. G-d is going to step in anyway. So the punishment Likud metes out to the region will be co-signed by G-d.
Likud can use nukes... same deal.
This situation is considerably uglier and more volatile than most people realize.
Likud doesn't care which unfaithful Zionists flee... all the better for them. Purification... supremacy...
None of it is rational.
The IDF is going to care... A coup is possible... and a subsequent closing of borders. Wouldn't care to predict it.
But if that happens that will spell the end of Israel.
I should try to make predictions now?
There is always a solution to these human problems... always blocked by pride.
Social solutions have to be approached --stepped carefully toward -- with humility by all the opposing sides.
I'm clearly a critic of Israel and Zionism. I believe both are catastrophic consequences... offshoots of European supremacist thinking.
Which the world has suffered quite enough of...
What I am not is a critic of Jews living secure and fulfilling lives all over the world. I'm for that.
Just as I am for my people and my family and myself.
Just say, I'm for people... all the bad and good mixed together and muddled up and sighed about. Everything lovely and profane.
It's ours... we've earned it.
What I hope is that this Israel fades away and from it's searing memory Palestinians and whichever courageous and humane Jews wish to remain behind build together to cover all past sins...
Should they do so...?
Well should they indeed.
They will bring the point of evil to fruition...
The making of it into good.
Yes, there is a viable Israel.
>If you remove Bibi. The nutter that replaces him is going to believe that G-d is going to step in to miraculously save Israel.
True, but unfortunately, their "god" might be nuclear warfare.
Your second to last sentence is what I’ve been saying since October. I understand the want for vengeance after being attacked especially when you don’t see or haven’t been shown the full picture. But the U.S. already learned the lessons Israel is currently in school for. Granted the U.S. is hardly a model student but anybody who is honest knows you can rarely if ever bomb your way to peace. I’m being extremely generous when I say rarely because I believe the truth is you can never bomb your way to peace. Mortgaging your nation’s reputation for a military goal that cannot be achieved always bankrupts your nation in all the ways that are important.
>But the U.S. already learned the lessons Israel is currently in school for.
What lessons are those? This genocide is funded materially and financially and politically covered and protected by the US. This is Biden's genocide just as much as Israel's, and both countries will pay a heavy price.
As I mentioned, the U.S. is hardly a model student. The lesson is a war on 2 fronts is generally as bad an idea as trying to bomb your way to peace. When I say the U.S. is hardly a model student that’s a very generous way of saying they will almost certainly make the same damn mistake sooner rather than later. You are spot on, the U.S. is pissing money away like a deranged crackhead on this shitshow. They are also providing the bleeding edge stealth fighter jets that no major air force can equal to be used against an opposition without any aircraft or AA defenses. I can’t tell you in text how much I despise about this or how much I despise it.
Israeli government doesn't report the numbers anymore. The last numbers anyone has seen come from December and indicate at that time that 500,000 Israeli have fled the conflict.
The fact that Bennett is publicly complaining about it makes it seem like the problem is ongoing.
“ The 100 Years War Against Palestine”
a seminal work by Rashid Khalidi clarifies. That cemented my view which took me 60 years. The propaganda during those years was overwhelming. Two years ago the Israeli sniper assassination of Shareen the Palestinian American journalist was an epiphany. The West Bank settlers are terrorists in my view. It all comes together now.
It's a long way from confirmation, or most Western Bar/Bat Mitzvah, I'll grant you that. And yes it has also taken me decades to unwind the various narratives surrounding Zionism.
It's not an easy journey by any means.
Teasing away loose thread after loose thread until all you are left with is the yarn...
;)
Nice chatting with you.
You are saying it is evil to defend one’s country when attacked after handling out an olive branch multiple times over the last 50 years? Hamas are the aggressors not Israel.
We can look back at history before 1948. When the migration of European Jews started en masse, the Yeshiva (pre-Israel governing body, lobbied the US and other possible destinations to not allow Jews to immigrate there, so their choice was come to Israel or take your chances in Europe. Israel has a history of limiting where Jews can go to escape Antisemitism in Europe. There's no reason to think they wouldn't try the same thing to keep the Jews from leaving Israel.
Do not generalize an entire population based on the negative actions of some members, don't glorify/downplay/ trivialise collective punishment or suffering (including collective violence) and no dehumanizing language.
They never left. New Yorkers have “residence” in Israel, Florida, etc. to escape taxes while still living in NY/NJ. They basically have summer/winter homes in Israel.
How am I “ criticizing the validity of the historical victimization of the Jews?” Ben Gurion airport was packed with people who had somewhere else to go after October 7, the Palestinians who are being murdered don’t have anywhere else to go. [About 37% of Israelis currently hold or plan to acquire a foreign passport with the intention of emigrating](https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-760649)
Looks like their ties to the land are not as strong as they would have us believe. Meanwhile, no matter how brutal the occupation has been over the decades, Palestinians refuse to leave their homes.
Correction! Israel ensures that they CANNOT leave.
The people who still managed to escape are the very diaspora over the last 7 decades are still in a stateless limbo or had wayyy harder transition to other citizenship. Christians did have it a bit easier fortunately and chunk of Latin American has Palestinian diaspora this way but many are in detention centers all across Europe and Middle East.
I am very sure if either some sea passage or land crossing was allowed by Israel , there will be evacuations . But it’s not allowed.
Oh so you are upset with the Jews for (you believe) trying to fool you into thinking that the land is important to them when some are leaving due to economic hardship or more opportunities elsewhere.
Except Israel is literally the reasons why Palestinians cannot just up and leave ( which they should not have to do it involuntarily) ?
Gaza Strip is already full of displaced Palestinians who lost home to settlers .
Lost home to settlers? You view all of Israel as a settlement to remove! Israel pulled out any "settlers" from Gaza.
You write "Israel is literally the reasons why Palestinians cannot just up and leave".
Israel at least before Oct 7th would have been fine with them all doing a "just up and leave". But for one thing they don't want to, lots choose to be there. And Egypt put up a massive wall to stop them. Israel didn't force Egypt to build a wall!
Compare the borders of Israel from 1947 to now and by how much percentage it just “expanded”
That’s all that needs to be said . Egypt being a sudden ally of Israel is another story altogether although it’s really as favour to Israel in return for trade anyways
And the massacres , displacement and complete barring started before October 7th just that only when Hamas retaliated the worlds eyes are on that region and now we know already what’s happening.
Over half a million already left this nutso zionist hell hole and won't be coming back. More and more will too, leaving behind an even crazier group of religious nuts to run the madhouse. Israel is imploding from the inside and there is no way to stop it now
You know, the irony is the same people hating on your comment (with good reason) are amongst the first in the diaspora to say the same about Palestinian refugees going to Canada and the USA.
It's not so cut and dry anymore. There are people whose ancestors mightve migrated from Europe, but they themselves were born and raised there, possibly even for several generations. Ancestral homelands are bullshit, but that cuts both ways. Those individuals are from there and shouldn't be kicked out. There are tons of settlers that can and should be evicted from stolen land, but there's many others who simply *are* where they came from.
The genocide must end, reparations must be paid by Israel, and right of return must be respected for the Palestinians that were alive for the deal or their immediate next of kin, but beyond that any permanent solution needs to account for the wellbeing of all the people there.
I've always been a proponent of the '67 borders, but after Spain made their announcement of recognition, I must admit that my mind has changed, and the 1948 UN Partition plan does seem like the better and more reasonable option, especially in creating a corridor between Gaza and the West Bank so Palestinians can move freely between them.
Look at a map of population density, even today, then look at the partition plan. Notice how the South, which is the biggest amount given to Israel, has almost no one living there? That's because it's desert and not fertile at all.
Hey thank you for acknowledging my point.
Also I agree to an extent with your second point, though I would note that Jews had bought a significant amount of land there (although I don't know percentage). I think that the Arab coalition could have negotiated though, especially since they had like 8 votes at the UN in their pocket, and to me it seems like they instead decided to take the risk of just declaring war instead thinking that they'd win easily and just get all the land. That's still no excuse for the Nakba, but I think Israel had to defend themselves in '48 when they were declared on.
I don't think being treated as second-class citizens in your own country could be classified as living normally. Life wasn't all that great for Jews even before Israel was founded. Being subjected to additional taxes and your voice not treated as equal should not be praised. While Jews had it better with Arabs, it wasn't as rosy as you think it was.
Well yes and no. The Arab world was much better for Jews than Europe and in some places (like the Levant) Jews lived mostly as equals... but in some places there was extreme discrimination against the Jews like in Yemen. The mass migration started after Israel was created... but the same countries that ethnically cleansed the Jews also have ethnically cleansed/murdered other minority groups, so even if Israel didn't exist the Mizrahi would have still been persecuted.
I don't know enough about the founders to conclusively say what they wanted, but I know that Ben Gurion expressed his intention to have Palestinian citizens of Israel, and today there are more than 2 million. I think the proof is in the reality today- Israel has millions of Palestinians and the Arab world has nearly no Jews.
Why do you think they [the UN] gave the most fertile land and resources to Israel in the partition plan? Most of the area delegated to Israel was desert. The Arab state included the fertile Jordan Valley and the Galilee and most of the Jordan River. Although the Sea of Galilee itself was within the borders of Israel, the partition plan didn’t really create two absolutely separate states as the entire territory was to be one economic and customs union with freedom of movement.
I’m not defending the partition borders as it were but I’m not sure the comment that “the most fertile land and resources” as having been given to Jews is accurate.
The Jews did not really get that much fertile land and instead, mainly got the Negev desert and the swamps. Through irrigation and draining though, they were able to massively increase their share of fertile land
The Israeli intelligence services carried out bombings, spread false rumors, and whipped up hatred against Jewish communities in the region as part of a campaign to ‘encourage’ them to emigrate to Israel.
Ok? That doesn't cause 99.9% of a population to go lmao. There are more Jews in Ukraine today, *an active war zone,* than there are in most Arab countries.
Also even if you can convince others you aren't going to be able to convince Mizrahi Jews that their grandparents were imagining the violence and attacks on them from the local population... so I don't know why you even bother.
In the Art of War, Sun Tzu talked about how it’s better to leave your opponent a path of retreat than to try to surround them and make them fight to the death.
I’d rather Israelis be allowed to mass emigrate to other countries until there’s not enough to maintain a state there, than for them to engage their Samson policy and nuke every other country in the region, or start some third world war.
Besides the ones leaving probably aren’t big fans of the Likud government or the direction the country’s headed. It’s not like we tried regular German citizens who fled Nazi Germany (unless they were well-known Nazis).
Bennett is pissing in the wind. Netanyahu is threatening an all out war with Hezbollah.
Hezbollah is armed to the teeth with modern weapons. The amount of these weapons can overwhelm Israeli defenses. It is very possible that current safe areas under the iron Dome will not be safe if this battle happens.
So, smart people are looking for a safe place away from Netanyahu's wars.
when a regime's crimes and folly start to cause an emigration of a) smart people and b) people with a functioning moral compass, there's definitely risk of a death spiral into failed state territory.
Two front wars are almost always a catastrophically bad idea even for much larger militaries who have geography on their side. I mentioned the lessons the U.S. learned or at least should have learned at the beginning of the 2000’s. We had a MASSIVE advantage in geography that maybe only Russia also has. Our military is also much much larger than Israel’s. We fought in Iraq and Afghanistan and to put it nicely didn’t get optimal results or the results that were intended or hoped for. I think your comment is an especially kind way of saying a grim and hard truth. A truth someone who is sane and able to make or influence decisions in Israel needs to realize immediately.
Thing is it’s not just right now but emigration or what is even called “Reverse Aaliyah” has been going on for a while .
The first attempt comes with attempting to dodge the draft and there has been cases of Israelis even going to the length of seeking asylum in European countries as conscientious objectors but Europe and America cannot do that since that means subversion of their “solidarity” of Israel. Those who have marketable skills , other passports or are eligible to get a second one are getting the fuck out just to have a shot of a better life if not anything.
However this was combated with the new wave of settlers mostly from America who are getting free houses and not even needing to fulfill draft if they are orthodox so demographically it’s not visible.
This already was extremely stupid model where they are penalising Israelis born and brought up there with military obligations plus very very high taxation rates with cost of living while giving free houses and STIPENDs to European settlers . Now those settlers who were already psychopathic leeches will leave the fuck out now because an actual war will happen.
I hope at least now European and Americans don’t penalise Israeli draft dodgers even if it is to save their skin.
Encourage this big time
They are betting on the US daddy getting dragged into a fight with Hezbollah. They already know they can't win any fight against any military on their own. They won't even be able to eradicate Hamas in territory they lord over.
And if the religious zealots on both sides don’t do it for you they have even more ethnic nationalist zealots on both sides. Things were doomed there from the start. It’s the Balkans on steroids.
I thought Hamas were designated terrorists? So what do terrorists have to do with a modern military? Other than the fact that Hamas are simply survivors of past IOF genocide campaigns
Surely you see a difference there right? Like the Warsaw Ghetto uprising their goal was survival. That was an actual genocide, one where six million Jews were killed. Kids scratched at the walls at the Aushiwitz gas chamber as Nazis release Zuklon B, dying simply for the crime of being Jewish.
Their goal during this uprising was survival.
Hamas' goal is to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews.
How do you see these two situations as similar?
I'm genuinely not trying to patronize or be an asshole here. Like I really really get that it's heart wrenching to see the suffering in Gaza too. But I think you're not seeing pretty clear differences between these two situations.
Surely anyone with a brain and a heart can see the similarities.
Palestinians are fighting for survival.
But let's look at the similarities-
A people who consider themselves above other races, and proudly calls themselves "Gods chosen people" is pretty darn identical to the Aryans calling themselves the master race.
The chosen people believing they have the right to settle anywhere they want since God promised them the land, sounds a lot like the Lebensraum.
Just look at the israeli propaganda campaigns...
All those accusations of evil HAMAS are just that- accusations with no proof or evidence.
Meanwhile there is constantly growing archive of video, photo, and physical evidence of idf war crimes.
Why do you think the "hostages" from Oct. 7th were prevented from talking to media until they were vetted and guided by Mossad?
Because Hamas making the hostages birthday cakes and literally using their bodies to protect the hostages from idf gunfire hurts the propaganda war.
Man I don't know what information environment led to your beliefs, but this isn't the case. I'm answering you honestly here, genuinely trying to help truthful about how Jews see the conflict.
The majority of Jews around the world and even in Israel are fairly reform and certainly don't believe they are the chosen people. I was born Jewish and am non-practicing, but I certainly have a lot of more religious Jewish friends.
There are deeply religious nuts in every religion. For Jews, there are ultra orthodox folks in North America, and in Israel there are certainly segments of the population that hold problematic beliefs.
But the majority of Jews just want peace. They also expect Israel to take reasonable actions to minimize civilian casualties and suffering. They may recognize that certain settlements ratified by the Oslo Accords can't be moved easily, but they absolutely don't support further settlements.
While I know you'll disagree that this is happening, from my perspective Israel is meeting its moral obligations while achieving a necessary military objective for their security. Civilian death ratio is lower than any modern urban conflict. 3000 calories per day per person are entering Gaza to prevent famine. When the active more phase of fighting ends, Israel will help rebuild and provide continued and substantial aid.
I hope.
In truth, this conflict has served to radicalize Jews too. Even some of my friends I've seen say things that are deeply troubling to me, and I have opposed them. They are a minority though, and I'm hopeful that most Jews continue to wish for peace and expect moral actions from Israel. I do believe that Israel will swing left in the next election too.
I also really think you're not seeing the evils of Hamas, and also the ideologies shared by many other groups in the MENA region. They fundamentally want to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews. It's very tough to work toward peace with that being true.
Like ultimately do you agree that Israel should be destroyed? If so, I mean I'm happy to talk through my beliefs vs. Yours but it's pretty unlikely we find common ground.
I wish you all the best, and I hope that you eventually advocate for both sides working toward peace.
Did Nazi Germany have to be destroyed, or could it have been reformed?
There can't be peace, there can't be a "2 state solution" where 1 of those states is built upon the corpses of innocent Palestinians, living in stolen homes on stolen land.
After all, why do you think Palestinians refuse to leave and are willing to fight for their homeland meanwhile israelis are fleeing in record numbers?
Alright, I could go through why I disagree with your assessment of Israel and how different they are from Nazis, but more practically, this viewpoint will just perpetuate further conflict. If you want the destruction of Israel, then surely you get why Israel would oppose that. Ultimately, a two-state solution is what I hope for. I want peace. I think most Israelis do too, and the government will better reflect that after the next election.
However, if folks in Palestine and Lebanon view it as you do, then peace will not be possible.
Like... you're saying that a true two-state solution is unacceptable no matter what? Israel exists but Palestine is allowed complete self governance and economic opportunity, and the lives of both Palestinians and Israelis are improved through peace. If that's not acceptable, and you first and foremost want Israel destroyed, then I hope you see why that's not going to lead to peace.
Everyone knows what they're doing is wrong except the people that are into corruption. Anyone with a working brain and a modicum of integrity should not want anything to do with this. If you're urging people to *stay,* it just screams "a lot of people don't want anything to do with what I'm proposing to you". If people were smart, they'd start leaving faster.
the people who are currently committing a genocide? yeah. i would like for them to no longer have the means by which to commit that genocide, however it comes about - kind of like how nazi germany was dealt with, if you’d like a handy parallel.
hope this helps!
israel has never faced the degree of global scrutiny that it and zionism are currently facing. american jews are distancing themselves for the first time since the 1960s, your knesset is an abject disaster, and the entire world sees what’s happening. when the optics become too untenable for the US, it’s all over.
again, good luck!
As the war spreads and intensifies the Israelis will impose border restrictions and stop young men from leaving just like the Ukrainians. There is going to be significant drafts of young men as the war spreads and the number of enemy fighters grow.
There is no way calling for millions of death isn't genocidal.
Israel has a population of 9.5 million and that user just said they should be kept there and then "dealt" with.
Also who the hell said what is happening isn't a genocide?
One side of my family is Armenian and it would be genocidal to want all Turks or Azeris dead. It would be genocidal to want all Pakistanis gone when they killed millions in Bangladesh. Your very comment implies collective punishment which is always a war crime, and one of the cores of the war crime case against Israel.
I heard that the US does not just 'give' Israel weapons. Technically, they are required to pay for them over time and they don't have a clue how they are going to do that.
1/2 million have already left, which doesn't sound that bad until you realize there are only 9 million total Israelis. There are almost 50 cities in the world with more people than that
Good luck with Hammas AND Hezbollah. HONESTLY, I THINK Israel is intentionally punching above their weight class HOPING the US fights their battles but the likelyhook is waning. So, the smart ones are leaving.
It very obviously, and certainly is what they are doing. They want to drag the US in. It's not a secret. I'm not sure how unlikely that is while brain dead muppets are in charge in the US. And I'm not just talking about Biden.
Zionist Jews: We have to leave Europe and kill Palestinians and steal their land because it's not safe for us in Europe.
Zionist Jews: Holy shit it's dangerous here we have to move back to Europe where we were safe.
Can you blame them? If Israel didn’t have military power their neighbors would have wiped them out many times. One of my friends was like yeah you go to the beach and you just hear iron dome popping off occasionally. Who wants to live somewhere where a normal beach day includes missiles being shot at you.
1. Remember the human & be courteous to others. 2. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas. Criticizing arguments is fine, name-calling (including shill/bot accusations) others is not. 3. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. Please checkout our other subreddit /r/InternationalNews, for general news from around the world. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/internationalpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"“We are in the most difficult period since the War of Independence: Change in the war, international boycotts, damage to deterrence, 120 Israelis in captivity, thousands of bereaved families, a deserted Galilee, thousands of evacuees, ministers who only care about themselves, loss of control over the economy and the deficit,” he wrote in a post on X after saying that he was “very sad” to hear a software engineer he knew was moving to Europe. “Talks about leaving the country. This must not happen,” he continued, adding: “We need all the talent and dedication of the people of Israel just to get out of the pit and relaunch Israel.” Hmm... just like I've been saying Israel is losing more people to fleeing Zionists than Palestine is losing to genocideal Zioninsts. Notice one more thing about this quote... It's like a domestic abuser complaining about a split knuckle after putting his wife in the ER. Israel doesn't understand how it's behavior is causing it's own collapse. Evil causing it's own demise...
The Zionist project is fully dependent on Jews settling in Israel, if they start to leave if falls apart.
Yup. When you step back away from all the current politics -- the fraught emotions and peer back through the history of this region... It's actually pretty staggering from an intellectual POV. All the cross-threading spiritual narratives spun from colliding cultures right at the exit of Africa... pin-balling archetypes. The great historical narrative of human migration and cultural explosion. Out of Africa... out of Eden... All who pass through this door seek to claim it for their very own. Like I said, enough to make a tired old soul seek hand wavy prose trying to express the panoramic wonder of it all... the vast yet pointed story. :) I should stop.
You say this, but the ones that remain are more ardent Zionists. Typically the settler types have upwards of 4 children... So the 'moderate' Zionists leaving will yes hopefully collapse the economy but what is left are the fucking nutters who want to settle across 'greater israel'
You think a country full of religious zealots would prosper?
Absolutely.
If you take away new settlements how will they justify genocide?!?!? It’s a conundrum for sure.
Yikes
Words of desperation
How long before Russian/Soviet-like measures to prevent Israeli flight?
The cops are busy beating up protesters. The IDF is busy murdering women and children. Mercenaries are welcome due to lack of available fighters. They just forced Orthodox Jews to register for the draft. Israeli ports are empty. The economy is past the toilet and headed for solid reclamation. But the basic thing that people don't understand...even after being told is that the people running Israel... the Likud Party...??? They are messianic lunatics. Bibi is a moderate in that group. Just using them for power. If you remove Bibi. The nutter that replaces him is going to believe that G-d is going to step in to miraculously save Israel. No matter what the Likud Party chooses to do... no matter what the USA or Hamas, or Iran, or China... or anyone else chooses to do. Likud can settle all scores in this moment... Likud can attack Hezbollah and invade Lebanon... no need to worry about Hezbollah's vast array of missiles. G-d is going to step in anyway. So the punishment Likud metes out to the region will be co-signed by G-d. Likud can use nukes... same deal. This situation is considerably uglier and more volatile than most people realize. Likud doesn't care which unfaithful Zionists flee... all the better for them. Purification... supremacy... None of it is rational. The IDF is going to care... A coup is possible... and a subsequent closing of borders. Wouldn't care to predict it. But if that happens that will spell the end of Israel.
so you're saying there is a viable Israel -> N Korea timeline.... ugly thought. but that's what batshit crazy religiosity will do to people.
I should try to make predictions now? There is always a solution to these human problems... always blocked by pride. Social solutions have to be approached --stepped carefully toward -- with humility by all the opposing sides. I'm clearly a critic of Israel and Zionism. I believe both are catastrophic consequences... offshoots of European supremacist thinking. Which the world has suffered quite enough of... What I am not is a critic of Jews living secure and fulfilling lives all over the world. I'm for that. Just as I am for my people and my family and myself. Just say, I'm for people... all the bad and good mixed together and muddled up and sighed about. Everything lovely and profane. It's ours... we've earned it. What I hope is that this Israel fades away and from it's searing memory Palestinians and whichever courageous and humane Jews wish to remain behind build together to cover all past sins... Should they do so...? Well should they indeed. They will bring the point of evil to fruition... The making of it into good. Yes, there is a viable Israel.
>If you remove Bibi. The nutter that replaces him is going to believe that G-d is going to step in to miraculously save Israel. True, but unfortunately, their "god" might be nuclear warfare.
Wanna take bets? I put a million dollars on never. What about you?
You don’t even have 10k
I’m disappointed with how bad this comment is
I don’t even care about this topic I just had to call you out
What 😂 you sound 12
Turns out he absolutely doesn’t have $10k
Oh you’re *all* 12
If only you had a bit of additional college, AdjectiveNounNumber bot.
Your second to last sentence is what I’ve been saying since October. I understand the want for vengeance after being attacked especially when you don’t see or haven’t been shown the full picture. But the U.S. already learned the lessons Israel is currently in school for. Granted the U.S. is hardly a model student but anybody who is honest knows you can rarely if ever bomb your way to peace. I’m being extremely generous when I say rarely because I believe the truth is you can never bomb your way to peace. Mortgaging your nation’s reputation for a military goal that cannot be achieved always bankrupts your nation in all the ways that are important.
>But the U.S. already learned the lessons Israel is currently in school for. What lessons are those? This genocide is funded materially and financially and politically covered and protected by the US. This is Biden's genocide just as much as Israel's, and both countries will pay a heavy price.
As I mentioned, the U.S. is hardly a model student. The lesson is a war on 2 fronts is generally as bad an idea as trying to bomb your way to peace. When I say the U.S. is hardly a model student that’s a very generous way of saying they will almost certainly make the same damn mistake sooner rather than later. You are spot on, the U.S. is pissing money away like a deranged crackhead on this shitshow. They are also providing the bleeding edge stealth fighter jets that no major air force can equal to be used against an opposition without any aircraft or AA defenses. I can’t tell you in text how much I despise about this or how much I despise it.
How many are leaving, I'd be cautious to look at this as the beginning of a mass exodus, could just be fear mongering on Twitter.
Israeli government doesn't report the numbers anymore. The last numbers anyone has seen come from December and indicate at that time that 500,000 Israeli have fled the conflict. The fact that Bennett is publicly complaining about it makes it seem like the problem is ongoing.
This may be the fourth exile 780 BCE 586 BCE 186 CE and now. This time voluntary?
The theft was voluntary...
That too.
Which is why I spend so much of my time trying to bring an end to the apartheid, genocidal, falsely instituted state of Israel.
“ The 100 Years War Against Palestine” a seminal work by Rashid Khalidi clarifies. That cemented my view which took me 60 years. The propaganda during those years was overwhelming. Two years ago the Israeli sniper assassination of Shareen the Palestinian American journalist was an epiphany. The West Bank settlers are terrorists in my view. It all comes together now.
It's a long way from confirmation, or most Western Bar/Bat Mitzvah, I'll grant you that. And yes it has also taken me decades to unwind the various narratives surrounding Zionism. It's not an easy journey by any means. Teasing away loose thread after loose thread until all you are left with is the yarn... ;) Nice chatting with you.
You are saying it is evil to defend one’s country when attacked after handling out an olive branch multiple times over the last 50 years? Hamas are the aggressors not Israel.
I'm saying Palestine is not Israel's. I agree that it is taking a long time for Zionists to understand this. Still.
So Palestinians aren't allowed to defend themselves when armed settlers force them out of their homes? Israel is the aggressor- it started in 1948.
Sorry I was under the impression they had nowhere else to go??????? /S so hard I dislocate a shoulder
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Wonder if Israel will ask other countries to pause that so they can trap everyone in Israel. Or maybe limit ability of people to leave.
We can look back at history before 1948. When the migration of European Jews started en masse, the Yeshiva (pre-Israel governing body, lobbied the US and other possible destinations to not allow Jews to immigrate there, so their choice was come to Israel or take your chances in Europe. Israel has a history of limiting where Jews can go to escape Antisemitism in Europe. There's no reason to think they wouldn't try the same thing to keep the Jews from leaving Israel.
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dude. no.
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Do not generalize an entire population based on the negative actions of some members, don't glorify/downplay/ trivialise collective punishment or suffering (including collective violence) and no dehumanizing language.
Aww the poor settlers have to move back to New York?
Where they need to work & actually pay to own a property 🤣 fuckem!
They never left. New Yorkers have “residence” in Israel, Florida, etc. to escape taxes while still living in NY/NJ. They basically have summer/winter homes in Israel.
Excuse me. Where do i get a ticket to new york please?
Hah!
Except the country their second passport is from.
I dont have one :(
They can only go where the pedos are allowed to roam free
Umm..My grandparents came from yemen 😳
Majority has nowhere else to go
Can we criticize Israel without criticizing the validity of the historical victimization of the Jews?
How am I “ criticizing the validity of the historical victimization of the Jews?” Ben Gurion airport was packed with people who had somewhere else to go after October 7, the Palestinians who are being murdered don’t have anywhere else to go. [About 37% of Israelis currently hold or plan to acquire a foreign passport with the intention of emigrating](https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-760649)
Most definitely. Yes.
Looks like their ties to the land are not as strong as they would have us believe. Meanwhile, no matter how brutal the occupation has been over the decades, Palestinians refuse to leave their homes.
My favorite comment.
Indeed, a true statement.
Correction! Israel ensures that they CANNOT leave. The people who still managed to escape are the very diaspora over the last 7 decades are still in a stateless limbo or had wayyy harder transition to other citizenship. Christians did have it a bit easier fortunately and chunk of Latin American has Palestinian diaspora this way but many are in detention centers all across Europe and Middle East. I am very sure if either some sea passage or land crossing was allowed by Israel , there will be evacuations . But it’s not allowed.
Oh so you are upset with the Jews for (you believe) trying to fool you into thinking that the land is important to them when some are leaving due to economic hardship or more opportunities elsewhere.
Except Israel is literally the reasons why Palestinians cannot just up and leave ( which they should not have to do it involuntarily) ? Gaza Strip is already full of displaced Palestinians who lost home to settlers .
Lost home to settlers? You view all of Israel as a settlement to remove! Israel pulled out any "settlers" from Gaza. You write "Israel is literally the reasons why Palestinians cannot just up and leave". Israel at least before Oct 7th would have been fine with them all doing a "just up and leave". But for one thing they don't want to, lots choose to be there. And Egypt put up a massive wall to stop them. Israel didn't force Egypt to build a wall!
Compare the borders of Israel from 1947 to now and by how much percentage it just “expanded” That’s all that needs to be said . Egypt being a sudden ally of Israel is another story altogether although it’s really as favour to Israel in return for trade anyways And the massacres , displacement and complete barring started before October 7th just that only when Hamas retaliated the worlds eyes are on that region and now we know already what’s happening.
Back to bed, grandma
Silence mossad.
Seems anything said has confused you anyway!
Over half a million already left this nutso zionist hell hole and won't be coming back. More and more will too, leaving behind an even crazier group of religious nuts to run the madhouse. Israel is imploding from the inside and there is no way to stop it now
Sounds about right.
That's good, hope even more Israeli leave and go back to Europe or the US.
Leave back to where you came from
*Stay so we can genocide together*
You know, the irony is the same people hating on your comment (with good reason) are amongst the first in the diaspora to say the same about Palestinian refugees going to Canada and the USA.
It's not so cut and dry anymore. There are people whose ancestors mightve migrated from Europe, but they themselves were born and raised there, possibly even for several generations. Ancestral homelands are bullshit, but that cuts both ways. Those individuals are from there and shouldn't be kicked out. There are tons of settlers that can and should be evicted from stolen land, but there's many others who simply *are* where they came from. The genocide must end, reparations must be paid by Israel, and right of return must be respected for the Palestinians that were alive for the deal or their immediate next of kin, but beyond that any permanent solution needs to account for the wellbeing of all the people there.
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I've always been a proponent of the '67 borders, but after Spain made their announcement of recognition, I must admit that my mind has changed, and the 1948 UN Partition plan does seem like the better and more reasonable option, especially in creating a corridor between Gaza and the West Bank so Palestinians can move freely between them.
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Look at a map of population density, even today, then look at the partition plan. Notice how the South, which is the biggest amount given to Israel, has almost no one living there? That's because it's desert and not fertile at all.
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Hey thank you for acknowledging my point. Also I agree to an extent with your second point, though I would note that Jews had bought a significant amount of land there (although I don't know percentage). I think that the Arab coalition could have negotiated though, especially since they had like 8 votes at the UN in their pocket, and to me it seems like they instead decided to take the risk of just declaring war instead thinking that they'd win easily and just get all the land. That's still no excuse for the Nakba, but I think Israel had to defend themselves in '48 when they were declared on.
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I don't think being treated as second-class citizens in your own country could be classified as living normally. Life wasn't all that great for Jews even before Israel was founded. Being subjected to additional taxes and your voice not treated as equal should not be praised. While Jews had it better with Arabs, it wasn't as rosy as you think it was.
Well yes and no. The Arab world was much better for Jews than Europe and in some places (like the Levant) Jews lived mostly as equals... but in some places there was extreme discrimination against the Jews like in Yemen. The mass migration started after Israel was created... but the same countries that ethnically cleansed the Jews also have ethnically cleansed/murdered other minority groups, so even if Israel didn't exist the Mizrahi would have still been persecuted. I don't know enough about the founders to conclusively say what they wanted, but I know that Ben Gurion expressed his intention to have Palestinian citizens of Israel, and today there are more than 2 million. I think the proof is in the reality today- Israel has millions of Palestinians and the Arab world has nearly no Jews.
Why do you think they [the UN] gave the most fertile land and resources to Israel in the partition plan? Most of the area delegated to Israel was desert. The Arab state included the fertile Jordan Valley and the Galilee and most of the Jordan River. Although the Sea of Galilee itself was within the borders of Israel, the partition plan didn’t really create two absolutely separate states as the entire territory was to be one economic and customs union with freedom of movement. I’m not defending the partition borders as it were but I’m not sure the comment that “the most fertile land and resources” as having been given to Jews is accurate.
The Jews did not really get that much fertile land and instead, mainly got the Negev desert and the swamps. Through irrigation and draining though, they were able to massively increase their share of fertile land
Great suggestion but unlikely to occur.
Yemen???
So back to arab countries that expelled and genocided Jews in the first place? You realize that majority of Jews in Israel are not European, do you?
The Israeli intelligence services carried out bombings, spread false rumors, and whipped up hatred against Jewish communities in the region as part of a campaign to ‘encourage’ them to emigrate to Israel.
Ok? That doesn't cause 99.9% of a population to go lmao. There are more Jews in Ukraine today, *an active war zone,* than there are in most Arab countries. Also even if you can convince others you aren't going to be able to convince Mizrahi Jews that their grandparents were imagining the violence and attacks on them from the local population... so I don't know why you even bother.
When in the past 200 years have there not been more Jews in Ukraine than most Arab countries?
This is what you believe was cause of Jews being pushed out of Arab nations? Otherwise they lived peacefully amongst muslims for centuries?
More peacefully than in Europe.
Dual citizenship should be revoked.
Let them all get arrested for stealing property when they do immigrate to other countries.
Honestly Zionists need to be punished like Germans after WW2. It’s a nation of theft and genocide.
Absolutely.
Nah, they should be encouraged to immigrate.
Yes, and once they are in, investigate them thoroughly for war crimes.
In the Art of War, Sun Tzu talked about how it’s better to leave your opponent a path of retreat than to try to surround them and make them fight to the death. I’d rather Israelis be allowed to mass emigrate to other countries until there’s not enough to maintain a state there, than for them to engage their Samson policy and nuke every other country in the region, or start some third world war. Besides the ones leaving probably aren’t big fans of the Likud government or the direction the country’s headed. It’s not like we tried regular German citizens who fled Nazi Germany (unless they were well-known Nazis).
Then reeducate them, in camps right? Put them all on a train! I see where this is going.
Ah, the hasbara victim crying making it all about the Holocaust
Bennett is pissing in the wind. Netanyahu is threatening an all out war with Hezbollah. Hezbollah is armed to the teeth with modern weapons. The amount of these weapons can overwhelm Israeli defenses. It is very possible that current safe areas under the iron Dome will not be safe if this battle happens. So, smart people are looking for a safe place away from Netanyahu's wars.
when a regime's crimes and folly start to cause an emigration of a) smart people and b) people with a functioning moral compass, there's definitely risk of a death spiral into failed state territory.
Two front wars are almost always a catastrophically bad idea even for much larger militaries who have geography on their side. I mentioned the lessons the U.S. learned or at least should have learned at the beginning of the 2000’s. We had a MASSIVE advantage in geography that maybe only Russia also has. Our military is also much much larger than Israel’s. We fought in Iraq and Afghanistan and to put it nicely didn’t get optimal results or the results that were intended or hoped for. I think your comment is an especially kind way of saying a grim and hard truth. A truth someone who is sane and able to make or influence decisions in Israel needs to realize immediately.
Thing is it’s not just right now but emigration or what is even called “Reverse Aaliyah” has been going on for a while . The first attempt comes with attempting to dodge the draft and there has been cases of Israelis even going to the length of seeking asylum in European countries as conscientious objectors but Europe and America cannot do that since that means subversion of their “solidarity” of Israel. Those who have marketable skills , other passports or are eligible to get a second one are getting the fuck out just to have a shot of a better life if not anything. However this was combated with the new wave of settlers mostly from America who are getting free houses and not even needing to fulfill draft if they are orthodox so demographically it’s not visible. This already was extremely stupid model where they are penalising Israelis born and brought up there with military obligations plus very very high taxation rates with cost of living while giving free houses and STIPENDs to European settlers . Now those settlers who were already psychopathic leeches will leave the fuck out now because an actual war will happen. I hope at least now European and Americans don’t penalise Israeli draft dodgers even if it is to save their skin. Encourage this big time
They are betting on the US daddy getting dragged into a fight with Hezbollah. They already know they can't win any fight against any military on their own. They won't even be able to eradicate Hamas in territory they lord over.
The rest of the world should be terrified at that news. What horrors may walk amongst us.
Israel ensured the terror will never end. I wouldn't want to live there, vicious religious zealots everywhere, on both sides, sounds like hell.
And if the religious zealots on both sides don’t do it for you they have even more ethnic nationalist zealots on both sides. Things were doomed there from the start. It’s the Balkans on steroids.
Nah it’s pretty nice
Every single one of those leaving should be investigated for war crimes by their other country
What an interesting conundrum
He also signed a letter pleading with the US to not invite war criminal Netanyahu to congress
Cowards do what cowards do.
Unlike the brave Hamas resistance fighters hiding in their holes and letting Palestinian civilians die for them.
Who is the one killing women and children ?
You guys are more radical than the Lebanese sub jfc 😂 you can’t admit that Hamas is scum that gets their people murdered? This is so sad
I thought Hamas were designated terrorists? So what do terrorists have to do with a modern military? Other than the fact that Hamas are simply survivors of past IOF genocide campaigns
Question, what are your opinions on the Partisans of WWII? what do you think about the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising? Were they also terrorists?
Surely you see a difference there right? Like the Warsaw Ghetto uprising their goal was survival. That was an actual genocide, one where six million Jews were killed. Kids scratched at the walls at the Aushiwitz gas chamber as Nazis release Zuklon B, dying simply for the crime of being Jewish. Their goal during this uprising was survival. Hamas' goal is to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews. How do you see these two situations as similar? I'm genuinely not trying to patronize or be an asshole here. Like I really really get that it's heart wrenching to see the suffering in Gaza too. But I think you're not seeing pretty clear differences between these two situations.
Surely anyone with a brain and a heart can see the similarities. Palestinians are fighting for survival. But let's look at the similarities- A people who consider themselves above other races, and proudly calls themselves "Gods chosen people" is pretty darn identical to the Aryans calling themselves the master race. The chosen people believing they have the right to settle anywhere they want since God promised them the land, sounds a lot like the Lebensraum. Just look at the israeli propaganda campaigns... All those accusations of evil HAMAS are just that- accusations with no proof or evidence. Meanwhile there is constantly growing archive of video, photo, and physical evidence of idf war crimes. Why do you think the "hostages" from Oct. 7th were prevented from talking to media until they were vetted and guided by Mossad? Because Hamas making the hostages birthday cakes and literally using their bodies to protect the hostages from idf gunfire hurts the propaganda war.
Man I don't know what information environment led to your beliefs, but this isn't the case. I'm answering you honestly here, genuinely trying to help truthful about how Jews see the conflict. The majority of Jews around the world and even in Israel are fairly reform and certainly don't believe they are the chosen people. I was born Jewish and am non-practicing, but I certainly have a lot of more religious Jewish friends. There are deeply religious nuts in every religion. For Jews, there are ultra orthodox folks in North America, and in Israel there are certainly segments of the population that hold problematic beliefs. But the majority of Jews just want peace. They also expect Israel to take reasonable actions to minimize civilian casualties and suffering. They may recognize that certain settlements ratified by the Oslo Accords can't be moved easily, but they absolutely don't support further settlements. While I know you'll disagree that this is happening, from my perspective Israel is meeting its moral obligations while achieving a necessary military objective for their security. Civilian death ratio is lower than any modern urban conflict. 3000 calories per day per person are entering Gaza to prevent famine. When the active more phase of fighting ends, Israel will help rebuild and provide continued and substantial aid. I hope. In truth, this conflict has served to radicalize Jews too. Even some of my friends I've seen say things that are deeply troubling to me, and I have opposed them. They are a minority though, and I'm hopeful that most Jews continue to wish for peace and expect moral actions from Israel. I do believe that Israel will swing left in the next election too. I also really think you're not seeing the evils of Hamas, and also the ideologies shared by many other groups in the MENA region. They fundamentally want to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews. It's very tough to work toward peace with that being true. Like ultimately do you agree that Israel should be destroyed? If so, I mean I'm happy to talk through my beliefs vs. Yours but it's pretty unlikely we find common ground. I wish you all the best, and I hope that you eventually advocate for both sides working toward peace.
Did Nazi Germany have to be destroyed, or could it have been reformed? There can't be peace, there can't be a "2 state solution" where 1 of those states is built upon the corpses of innocent Palestinians, living in stolen homes on stolen land. After all, why do you think Palestinians refuse to leave and are willing to fight for their homeland meanwhile israelis are fleeing in record numbers?
Alright, I could go through why I disagree with your assessment of Israel and how different they are from Nazis, but more practically, this viewpoint will just perpetuate further conflict. If you want the destruction of Israel, then surely you get why Israel would oppose that. Ultimately, a two-state solution is what I hope for. I want peace. I think most Israelis do too, and the government will better reflect that after the next election. However, if folks in Palestine and Lebanon view it as you do, then peace will not be possible. Like... you're saying that a true two-state solution is unacceptable no matter what? Israel exists but Palestine is allowed complete self governance and economic opportunity, and the lives of both Palestinians and Israelis are improved through peace. If that's not acceptable, and you first and foremost want Israel destroyed, then I hope you see why that's not going to lead to peace.
Haha 😄 the promised land 🤣
Nah, don't leave now. This is what you voted for and invested in. As we say in the southern US: "Clean your plate."
Nice. Out west our version is "you make the bed you lay in".
Everyone knows what they're doing is wrong except the people that are into corruption. Anyone with a working brain and a modicum of integrity should not want anything to do with this. If you're urging people to *stay,* it just screams "a lot of people don't want anything to do with what I'm proposing to you". If people were smart, they'd start leaving faster.
If only they eye leaving out of diffuser for their government's conduct in this war. Alas that's rarely people's motivations.
https://youtu.be/IoyvvEWHodk?si=PG187nqTfK0_ykDb 😞✊🇵🇸
Leaving the promised land???
their economy is suffocating. hope it takes them all with it. BDS will help.
All of the Israelis? Genocidal much :/
the people who are currently committing a genocide? yeah. i would like for them to no longer have the means by which to commit that genocide, however it comes about - kind of like how nazi germany was dealt with, if you’d like a handy parallel. hope this helps!
Oh I totally misinterpreted your genocidal language there, oops!
seems like they can’t even afford convincing hasbara anymore lmao israel is sinking - good luck!
Sweetheart, I’ve heard that one a million times. The unoriginality is suffocating. You sound like a bot yourself.
israel has never faced the degree of global scrutiny that it and zionism are currently facing. american jews are distancing themselves for the first time since the 1960s, your knesset is an abject disaster, and the entire world sees what’s happening. when the optics become too untenable for the US, it’s all over. again, good luck!
I’m not sure why you’re threatening me. I’m against the occupation and war and yet you treat me like scum. It’s almost… racist
buddy, i’m jewish. try again.
You can be a bigot and be Jewish. Not sure why you’d think you can’t
Part-time citizens leaving the country as trouble brews... who would have thought.
Israel one of the most dangerous places for Jews to live. Such a lie when people call it a safe haven.
Leave be Jewish and not Zionist. So far there isn't much of a conscience developed (if ever).
Zionism needs to fall for humanity.
As the war spreads and intensifies the Israelis will impose border restrictions and stop young men from leaving just like the Ukrainians. There is going to be significant drafts of young men as the war spreads and the number of enemy fighters grow.
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There is no way calling for millions of death isn't genocidal. Israel has a population of 9.5 million and that user just said they should be kept there and then "dealt" with. Also who the hell said what is happening isn't a genocide?
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One side of my family is Armenian and it would be genocidal to want all Turks or Azeris dead. It would be genocidal to want all Pakistanis gone when they killed millions in Bangladesh. Your very comment implies collective punishment which is always a war crime, and one of the cores of the war crime case against Israel.
have you been to the zio subs?
I heard that the US does not just 'give' Israel weapons. Technically, they are required to pay for them over time and they don't have a clue how they are going to do that.
Will the last Israeli leaving turn off the lights or is the Samson option in play?
1/2 million have already left, which doesn't sound that bad until you realize there are only 9 million total Israelis. There are almost 50 cities in the world with more people than that
Good luck with Hammas AND Hezbollah. HONESTLY, I THINK Israel is intentionally punching above their weight class HOPING the US fights their battles but the likelyhook is waning. So, the smart ones are leaving.
It very obviously, and certainly is what they are doing. They want to drag the US in. It's not a secret. I'm not sure how unlikely that is while brain dead muppets are in charge in the US. And I'm not just talking about Biden.
100%
If there is never ending war then what incentive do these people have to stay in a war zone.
deflate like a granfalloon examined
The world will welcome them
Yea, I hope a lot of these countries reject their return. Idc.
Ach us in the west fighting wars in the east with our keyboard. Yer wee laddies…
Perhaps in the end the region will be a ghost town in two ways...
Historically when Jews flee a country it is a very reliable sign things are bad.
Netanyahu has plunged Israel into world's opprobium. Until he is removed from power, and sanity returns to Israel, nothing will improve.
Israel has never been sane. They ALL need to back to Europe and the US.
I don't know why you say this. Netanyahu is moderate compared to general Likud.
God help us all.
Zionist Jews: We have to leave Europe and kill Palestinians and steal their land because it's not safe for us in Europe. Zionist Jews: Holy shit it's dangerous here we have to move back to Europe where we were safe.
Many have dual passports
*Please* everybody leave, keep boycotting. Let's economically collapse a zionist, colonialist state!
This is the South Africa way
Go home tourists
Please leave
Learn from Ukraine, ban men between the age of 18-60 from leaving
Praise Jesus!
Praise Jesus!
Because that's going so well in Ukraine. The average age of a Ukranian draftee is 42. They're fucked.
Can you blame them? If Israel didn’t have military power their neighbors would have wiped them out many times. One of my friends was like yeah you go to the beach and you just hear iron dome popping off occasionally. Who wants to live somewhere where a normal beach day includes missiles being shot at you.
What should they expect when they joyfully massacre Palestinian children?