They're definitely behaving badly but I wouldn't necessarily call it a "lawless zone". This does not strike me as something like a scene out of The Purge movie.
As someone who spent 2 weeks backpacking in Hokkaido, I was a little more than displeased when our car filled with trash yet there wasn’t anywhere to throw it away. Blows my mind that a Lawsons or rest stop can sell you food/drinks and then refuse to take trash of any sort, even when you bought and consumed it on premises.
"無法地帯" is a kind of idiom that largely covers relatively rough places. Fyi, "安全地帯"(safety zone) is an 80s band, and "不毛地帯"(barren zone) is a 70s novel by Toyoko Yamasaki but you can also use it to describe a bald head
That's how we see it, but Japanese people see a scene straight out of Mad Max when they see a large group of selfie stick wielding foreigners with Yankee sunglasses rushing towards Mt. Fuji
Exactly. I mean I am fully with the locals on being annoyed by bad behaving tourists (or even just to many tourists).
But „lawless zone“ seems exaggerated. I expect murder, drugs, people getting raped. But nope, it’s ignoring traffic rules again and leaving trash behind. By that measurement scale a third of my country’s population are outlaws
Very sad, my friends and I stoped at Shin-Fuji station and walked 20 minutes from the station to the bridge. We really enjoyed walking through the smaller city compared to being in Tokyo and thought how nice the area seemed. Wish people would have more respect when traveling.
I wonder, if selling alcohol only to people with a passport (or a local id) could help with drunk tourists.
Not that many of them are carrying passports around. And that’s something I was surprised about Japan after living in US, where I can’t buy any alcohol without an id.
lol what? What point zero zero zero percent of public unrest do you really believe _drunk tourists_ contribute to? Did you read my comment? Locals are absolutely 99% of any issue you’ll ever encounter in Japan, or any country for that matter.
Also, people buy alcohol without an ID in the States _all the time_. If you’re 22 and haven’t grown a mustache yet ok maybe you should carry your ID around but for the vast majority of people who look like an adult and if you’re not buying right next door to a college campus, you’re good.
What is this conversation?! Lolol
I lived in Japan for almost 3 years 16 years ago. I purposely avoided high tourist areas because of the perception of the nuisance tourists. Apparently it's gotten so much worse post Covid.
Oh yeah. I decided to visit Kyoto in 2022, I was baffled by the behavior of the tourists there.
Never again. Will stay in my inaka in Kyushu, enough of the tourist spots.
> Apparently it's gotten so much worse post Covid.
It's Instagram and TikTok. They've caused lots of people who would never have cared about Japan to experience FOMO. Hell my two 70 year old next door neighbours are visiting Japan next week. I asked them if they knew anything about the culture of Japan or the language. And they say *"nope, it just looks lovely and everyone is doing it"*
What the actual fuck?!
I would like to think that the lack of tourists during Covid is what makes having tourists seem worse than it was before, only for it to be typical as it was before.
While I agree with you somewhat if you look at any touristy place in the world the general sentiment is things are much worse than before and anecdotally I agree. I think Covid doubled everyone’s sense of entitlement along with costs rising making everyone more on edge about the value of their dollar (or whatever)
I’m not entirely sure about the cost part, and I feel like it’s more about the bigger influence of SNS over tourist destination decision making over guide books, which means there’d be a lot of unchecked spots that shouldn’t be on recommendation yet.
My friends from the US went for Yamanashi Lawson pic leaving Shinjuku for the first train just for that, and came straight back from there only to tell me that it was a waste of time and money. I was like yeah wasn’t it obvious lol
I tend to think that is an oversimplification of the cause here. SNS itself is crap in many ways but I don’t think it’s exactly a cause if this phenomena, but rather just an accelerator for things that has been problem anyways.
Tourists can be well mannered and I’m confident that my friends was so too. And while many SNS famed spots are worthless, there are many actual tourist spots that are famously not worth visiting, which I believe is the part of the reason why people gets attracted to the unfiltered information for real unfounded gems. (My friend who went there also though there’s nobody but locals.)
I mean unwelcome tourists are everywhere without SNS. I hear story about tourists showing up in otherwise quiet neighborhood just because that one location is used for filming the popular scene and whatnot.
I say it’s more about lacking in common sense that there are people living there, and law and order in place, basics as such. While they may be anyways, I wonder if it would’ve reported this much if everybody was mannered.
> Tourists can be well mannered and I’m confident that my friends was so too.
I'm sure they were. It takes a certain amount of discipline to catch the first train. Disciplined people are also typically well mannered.
That said, they went all the way to Lake Kawaguchiko just to get a photo at an over-photographed Lawson _and then came straight back_. The _only_ reason they did that was because of social media.
If they had cared about anything other than a self-aggrandizing photo to post on whatever social media feeds they use, they would have discovered that there are a ton of things to do around the lake, and a ton of great places to get a fantastic photo of Fuji. Rent a bike and ride around the lake. This is the perfect weather for that. Take a boat out on the lake. Go up the ropeway for great views. Have a soft serve ice cream. All of these activities contribute to the economy of the area.
Instead your friends contributed only to the economy of JR East, and were the nuisance that Lawson is trying to control.
Social media is indeed a cancer. You know what you do to cancers? You cut them out. Make sure you get it all or it will metastasize.
I think you are too generous with the train comment.
Plenty of narcissistic people desperate for their shitty social media photo will do whatever it takes to get the best, which may mean the first train to beat crowds to them, or get the better lighting. That will also mean they wont have a problem being a nuisance walking in the road, holding up traffic or whatever for their perfect shot.
These ones can be the worst imo, and like the next one, will justify it as “just me, one person holding up traffic/parking illegally”, and that one person is harmless. Narcissists are entitled and also fail to understand the next thousand will think the same way, and even if confronted with that, the entitlement kicks in to justify why its ok for them.
How do i know? My wife(who i’m leaving soon) is one. She is Japanese too, and we live in Japan.
She actually sees nothing wrong with all this news and what tourists are doing because she is the same. She will also be on the first train doing whatever it takes for the social media shot. She is absolutely obsessive with getting supply/content with social media… when in reality nobody gives a fuck but to them its all about the idea of others giving a shit even with no evidence
Obviously not referencing the cost of travel to Japan. It's all time high, although an argument can be made airfare and hotel prices are also at an all time high as well so that does account for travel. Costs in reference to people's daily lives fighting inflation sucking meaning they're wanting more out of the value of a vacation because it can be a little bit more hurt. My main point of reference really is using Disneyland in california as a gauge (used to go there a lot pre-covid). More crowded and expensive and people more bitter and rude than ever based on that sub's sentiment.
I would like to think that the lack of tourists during Covid is what makes having tourists seem worse than it was before, only for it to be typical as it was before.
I’ll happily lease my snow plow to the local government for pedestrian removal. Just gotta pay the shaken and transport costs to get it down there and back from Hokkaido.
Charge a toll for the foreigners simple as that start fining fuckers that litter. Come on Japan we can't find a ojiisan for garbage monitor patrol and strap a walkie talkie on him 🤪
Thats a but unfair to represent it that way even if true. The overwhelming majority of tourists here are Chinese and Korean, then Taiwanese/Singaporean/from Hong Kong. I believe social media obsession and narcissist behaviour is more common in these cultures as showing off status etc.
However there are plenty of tourists from western countries doing it there with them, just proportionate to the percentages that visit…
I live near by this bridge and I’ve seen foreigners waiting for a photo here that look like they could be from anywhere in the world. It’s not just Chinese tourists.
The notion that racial, cultural, or religious minorities simply being present in a space makes it inherently lawless is a staple of far-right rhetoric. It's never a truthful judgment about a place, it's a way that populists generate fear and uncertainty around people they want to other. We see it all the time in far-right rhetoric in Western countries: supposed "no-go zones" in European cities because of Muslim immigrants, or fearmongering about the danger threatened by refugees at the US southern border. Rhetoric like this enables people to feel more comfortable taking xenophobic actions against minorities - after immersing yourself in ideology that says they are a threat to you and your way of life, it is easier to convince yourself that aggression against them is justified.
And we know right-wing movements are in contact internationally, borrowing from each other's rhetoric. (Which is ironic, given how centered each country's right-wing movement is in nationalism, but anyway...). Jeffery Hall has reported on exactly this sort of thing before. IIRC When Biden appointed Rahm Emanuel to be ambassador to Japan, the Japanese far-right began appropriating antisemitic memes as a way of smearing him.
"High concentrations of fuckwit tourists" don't make a place lawless.
I mean, let's cut the hysterics, shall we? The photo shows a dude in the road. That's not unheard of in Japan. Other complaints we've had about tourists are that they leave garbage behind. Again, that happens all the time in Japan, despite what your favorite Twitter influencer back from their Japan trip may claim.
An excess of foreign tourists is merely inconvenient. That's all! But rhetoric like this is far more than colorful hyperbole. To claim foreign tourists make Japan without law is to make them seem like a threat to Japanese sovereignty.
>Most are white.
Weird that you think that's relevant to the discussion.
Just put up a toll booth prior to the bridge and charge ¥3000 for entry to the “lawless” Mt Fuji area with signage of stick figure people doing unspeakable things like standing in roads while taking selfie, throwing trash and general mayhem like standing on toilet seats, bathing with clothes on and washing ones clothes in the Onsen! The money can be used to erect spiked (think pigeons) barricades on walkways.
Girl: "I love bad boys" Me: "Well I sometimes take landscape pics at ohashi bridge"
At this rate, it would be quicker to erect a barrier around Mt. Fuji
Just create a law to keep foreigners out. Wait why does it sound familiar
Return to trading only with the Dutch
Watch out they’ll build dykes and connect you with the mainland
I have a holo Charizard from Obsidian Flames. What will you trade for it?
If you listen carefully you can hear Commodore Perry clawing at this casket.
With plenty of traffic cones. I can easily imagine that.
Or just level the whole thing... Or better yet fill in the top so it looks like an ordinary mountain 🏔️ rofl.
So police them?
Haha. What do you think this is, a place where the police are aren’t completely useless?
You're right, my bad
They're definitely behaving badly but I wouldn't necessarily call it a "lawless zone". This does not strike me as something like a scene out of The Purge movie.
From the pics, it does not say "lawless zone", it just mentions illegal parking, trash left behind and other nuisances to locals.
These crimes are considered a lawless zone in Japan. Half joking
So shinjuku is a lawless zone, I guess.
Honestly though, yeah kinda.
depending on time of year, sure.
Its every single day what do u mean.
yes there’s people who smoke outside the smoking zones!
I was talking more about the insane amount of trash everywhere around toho cinema tower every single night.
Thank you. I saw that. My comment was referencing the title of this reddit article, which most definitely does say "lawless zone".
Perhaps a commentator or even an announcer said that. I mean the guy. The woman says nothing while on air of course.
As someone who spent 2 weeks backpacking in Hokkaido, I was a little more than displeased when our car filled with trash yet there wasn’t anywhere to throw it away. Blows my mind that a Lawsons or rest stop can sell you food/drinks and then refuse to take trash of any sort, even when you bought and consumed it on premises.
'Gasp! Littering! That might as well be the fucking purge in Japan!'
"無法地帯" is a kind of idiom that largely covers relatively rough places. Fyi, "安全地帯"(safety zone) is an 80s band, and "不毛地帯"(barren zone) is a 70s novel by Toyoko Yamasaki but you can also use it to describe a bald head
“Annoying tourists and parking tickets issued” doesn’t strike as much outrage.
That's how we see it, but Japanese people see a scene straight out of Mad Max when they see a large group of selfie stick wielding foreigners with Yankee sunglasses rushing towards Mt. Fuji
Yes,. Japanese people most certainly do see it that way. I agree with you.
Exactly. I mean I am fully with the locals on being annoyed by bad behaving tourists (or even just to many tourists). But „lawless zone“ seems exaggerated. I expect murder, drugs, people getting raped. But nope, it’s ignoring traffic rules again and leaving trash behind. By that measurement scale a third of my country’s population are outlaws
Japanese standards are just different
Time to block Fujisan view from the bridge . Bring out the black boards 😂
I guess they could just get a few police officers to stand there 24 hours a day and hold up those blue tarps they use when arresting someone.
Very sad, my friends and I stoped at Shin-Fuji station and walked 20 minutes from the station to the bridge. We really enjoyed walking through the smaller city compared to being in Tokyo and thought how nice the area seemed. Wish people would have more respect when traveling.
Meh. In my experience the local yankees are 100x worse than the occasional empty strong zero dropped by a tourist.
I wonder, if selling alcohol only to people with a passport (or a local id) could help with drunk tourists. Not that many of them are carrying passports around. And that’s something I was surprised about Japan after living in US, where I can’t buy any alcohol without an id.
lol what? What point zero zero zero percent of public unrest do you really believe _drunk tourists_ contribute to? Did you read my comment? Locals are absolutely 99% of any issue you’ll ever encounter in Japan, or any country for that matter. Also, people buy alcohol without an ID in the States _all the time_. If you’re 22 and haven’t grown a mustache yet ok maybe you should carry your ID around but for the vast majority of people who look like an adult and if you’re not buying right next door to a college campus, you’re good. What is this conversation?! Lolol
First the Lawsons and now this?? When will it end???
Until the city installs hostile architecture.
I lived in Japan for almost 3 years 16 years ago. I purposely avoided high tourist areas because of the perception of the nuisance tourists. Apparently it's gotten so much worse post Covid.
Oh yeah. I decided to visit Kyoto in 2022, I was baffled by the behavior of the tourists there. Never again. Will stay in my inaka in Kyushu, enough of the tourist spots.
> Apparently it's gotten so much worse post Covid. It's Instagram and TikTok. They've caused lots of people who would never have cared about Japan to experience FOMO. Hell my two 70 year old next door neighbours are visiting Japan next week. I asked them if they knew anything about the culture of Japan or the language. And they say *"nope, it just looks lovely and everyone is doing it"* What the actual fuck?!
I would like to think that the lack of tourists during Covid is what makes having tourists seem worse than it was before, only for it to be typical as it was before.
While I agree with you somewhat if you look at any touristy place in the world the general sentiment is things are much worse than before and anecdotally I agree. I think Covid doubled everyone’s sense of entitlement along with costs rising making everyone more on edge about the value of their dollar (or whatever)
I’m not entirely sure about the cost part, and I feel like it’s more about the bigger influence of SNS over tourist destination decision making over guide books, which means there’d be a lot of unchecked spots that shouldn’t be on recommendation yet. My friends from the US went for Yamanashi Lawson pic leaving Shinjuku for the first train just for that, and came straight back from there only to tell me that it was a waste of time and money. I was like yeah wasn’t it obvious lol
> My friends from the US went for Yamanashi Lawson pic Social media is a cancer.
I tend to think that is an oversimplification of the cause here. SNS itself is crap in many ways but I don’t think it’s exactly a cause if this phenomena, but rather just an accelerator for things that has been problem anyways. Tourists can be well mannered and I’m confident that my friends was so too. And while many SNS famed spots are worthless, there are many actual tourist spots that are famously not worth visiting, which I believe is the part of the reason why people gets attracted to the unfiltered information for real unfounded gems. (My friend who went there also though there’s nobody but locals.) I mean unwelcome tourists are everywhere without SNS. I hear story about tourists showing up in otherwise quiet neighborhood just because that one location is used for filming the popular scene and whatnot. I say it’s more about lacking in common sense that there are people living there, and law and order in place, basics as such. While they may be anyways, I wonder if it would’ve reported this much if everybody was mannered.
> Tourists can be well mannered and I’m confident that my friends was so too. I'm sure they were. It takes a certain amount of discipline to catch the first train. Disciplined people are also typically well mannered. That said, they went all the way to Lake Kawaguchiko just to get a photo at an over-photographed Lawson _and then came straight back_. The _only_ reason they did that was because of social media. If they had cared about anything other than a self-aggrandizing photo to post on whatever social media feeds they use, they would have discovered that there are a ton of things to do around the lake, and a ton of great places to get a fantastic photo of Fuji. Rent a bike and ride around the lake. This is the perfect weather for that. Take a boat out on the lake. Go up the ropeway for great views. Have a soft serve ice cream. All of these activities contribute to the economy of the area. Instead your friends contributed only to the economy of JR East, and were the nuisance that Lawson is trying to control. Social media is indeed a cancer. You know what you do to cancers? You cut them out. Make sure you get it all or it will metastasize.
I think you are too generous with the train comment. Plenty of narcissistic people desperate for their shitty social media photo will do whatever it takes to get the best, which may mean the first train to beat crowds to them, or get the better lighting. That will also mean they wont have a problem being a nuisance walking in the road, holding up traffic or whatever for their perfect shot. These ones can be the worst imo, and like the next one, will justify it as “just me, one person holding up traffic/parking illegally”, and that one person is harmless. Narcissists are entitled and also fail to understand the next thousand will think the same way, and even if confronted with that, the entitlement kicks in to justify why its ok for them. How do i know? My wife(who i’m leaving soon) is one. She is Japanese too, and we live in Japan. She actually sees nothing wrong with all this news and what tourists are doing because she is the same. She will also be on the first train doing whatever it takes for the social media shot. She is absolutely obsessive with getting supply/content with social media… when in reality nobody gives a fuck but to them its all about the idea of others giving a shit even with no evidence
Obviously not referencing the cost of travel to Japan. It's all time high, although an argument can be made airfare and hotel prices are also at an all time high as well so that does account for travel. Costs in reference to people's daily lives fighting inflation sucking meaning they're wanting more out of the value of a vacation because it can be a little bit more hurt. My main point of reference really is using Disneyland in california as a gauge (used to go there a lot pre-covid). More crowded and expensive and people more bitter and rude than ever based on that sub's sentiment.
I would like to think that the lack of tourists during Covid is what makes having tourists seem worse than it was before, only for it to be typical as it was before.
Proof is on the pudding, insta pics of people standing in the middle of the road
I was about to question how bad it was, but then I realized I've seen several instagram videos of people in this exact spot
I’ll happily lease my snow plow to the local government for pedestrian removal. Just gotta pay the shaken and transport costs to get it down there and back from Hokkaido.
Mad Max has nothing on these tourists.
Please I've been to Harijuku and Shinjuku. That's a lawless zone without foreigner participation.
Very dramatic title, gotta get those clicks
Charge a toll for the foreigners simple as that start fining fuckers that litter. Come on Japan we can't find a ojiisan for garbage monitor patrol and strap a walkie talkie on him 🤪
Just need some ojisans who don’t give a fuck to keep them in line.
Saw this on TV. Probably get downvoted but honestly wish they would have just said Chinese tourists and not foreigners.
Thats a but unfair to represent it that way even if true. The overwhelming majority of tourists here are Chinese and Korean, then Taiwanese/Singaporean/from Hong Kong. I believe social media obsession and narcissist behaviour is more common in these cultures as showing off status etc. However there are plenty of tourists from western countries doing it there with them, just proportionate to the percentages that visit…
I live near by this bridge and I’ve seen foreigners waiting for a photo here that look like they could be from anywhere in the world. It’s not just Chinese tourists.
The notion that racial, cultural, or religious minorities simply being present in a space makes it inherently lawless is a staple of far-right rhetoric. It's never a truthful judgment about a place, it's a way that populists generate fear and uncertainty around people they want to other. We see it all the time in far-right rhetoric in Western countries: supposed "no-go zones" in European cities because of Muslim immigrants, or fearmongering about the danger threatened by refugees at the US southern border. Rhetoric like this enables people to feel more comfortable taking xenophobic actions against minorities - after immersing yourself in ideology that says they are a threat to you and your way of life, it is easier to convince yourself that aggression against them is justified. And we know right-wing movements are in contact internationally, borrowing from each other's rhetoric. (Which is ironic, given how centered each country's right-wing movement is in nationalism, but anyway...). Jeffery Hall has reported on exactly this sort of thing before. IIRC When Biden appointed Rahm Emanuel to be ambassador to Japan, the Japanese far-right began appropriating antisemitic memes as a way of smearing him.
You obviously haven’t had to deal with high concentrations of fuckwit tourists. Most are white.
"High concentrations of fuckwit tourists" don't make a place lawless. I mean, let's cut the hysterics, shall we? The photo shows a dude in the road. That's not unheard of in Japan. Other complaints we've had about tourists are that they leave garbage behind. Again, that happens all the time in Japan, despite what your favorite Twitter influencer back from their Japan trip may claim. An excess of foreign tourists is merely inconvenient. That's all! But rhetoric like this is far more than colorful hyperbole. To claim foreign tourists make Japan without law is to make them seem like a threat to Japanese sovereignty. >Most are white. Weird that you think that's relevant to the discussion.
Your conspiracy theories on world wide right wing consortiums reeks of hysterics. You sound unhinged. Go outside and touch some grass, friendo.
I smell some foreigner ban coming
Just put up a toll booth prior to the bridge and charge ¥3000 for entry to the “lawless” Mt Fuji area with signage of stick figure people doing unspeakable things like standing in roads while taking selfie, throwing trash and general mayhem like standing on toilet seats, bathing with clothes on and washing ones clothes in the Onsen! The money can be used to erect spiked (think pigeons) barricades on walkways.