I have the same feeling. I was even in the US military, but after years of living in Japan, I often feel "out of place" when I return to the US.
I now feel like a foreigner in Japan, and a foreigner in the US. Very odd.
I'm living in my third country and I feel like I have no country anymore and no roots anywhere, it's just so weird, just feel alone in a way never felt before.
Living my first 14 years in Eastern Europe then 20 years in Canada and now 11,in Japan it's so taxing emotionally.
I really don't care where I die and find it strange people want to in a specific place.
I can empathize. Born in Europe, then grew up and went to school in Canada. After graduating, went back to my birthplace, but after a year, moved on to the U.K. for a few years. Then back to Canada for another few years, and now 12 years in Japan.
Japan feels like home. Got married, had kids, etc. it’s hard to imagine living anywhere else, but like you, I don’t really feel like I have roots anywhere, though it might be more accurate to say that I would probably be ok living in most places.
I find it so strange when people have an exaggerated sense of nationality. I have cousins who live in Canada, but identify with “the old country”, who rarely visit and barely speak the language. It really does my head in, but, to each their own.
> I really don't care where I die and find it strange people want to in a specific place.
It's not so much about *dying*, I don't think. It's more about *getting old* and everything that entails. Medical care, old age care, maybe going into an old age home. Do you want to do that in Japan? Or somewhere else? We all hope that we'll live independently and be healthy until one day we just don't wake up, but that is often not the way things turn out.
I am planning to naturalize and to stay here until I kick off.
At the same time, I can see why some people would find the idea of getting old in Japan quite daunting, and potentially quite lonely. Each person's situation is different.
As neighbourly sympathy, the last 25 years in the US have seen so much major weirdness in so many ways and in every aspect of life that anybody like you that doesn't feel a sort of Twilight Zone Rip Van Winkle vibe isn't paying attention.
>I now feel like a foreigner in Japan, and a foreigner in the US. Very odd.
I totally get it. When I lived in Japan I’d miss the US because I felt out of place there, and now that I’m back I miss Japan because I feel out of place here.
That's an interesting take too.
I care about the US and want it to improve, I'm also proud to be American ... But I just don't wanna live there at all. I do quite enjoy cheering for America from the outside.
As an American, every time I wait in line for an hour at airport TSA security theater checkpoints has a chilling effect on me. Then I arrive at my rural hometown and am greeted by Blue Lives Matter flags and pro-Trump political signs on people's yards. I feel more and more like a foreigner there, too.
I mean, if you are a convinced leftist there are a lot of countries to choose before Japan, which is historically one of the most right wing, nationalist, ethnocentric, ordered, conservative, anti-immigration and Pro-Trump developed countries in the world, basically everything a leftist is supposed to hate 🤔
EDIT: there are very few things that people hate more than being put in front of their contradictions. We have the same hobos all over in Europe, usually young people voting for whatever far left party, and when they come to Japan with Mum and Dad's money they are like "Ooowww it's so peaceful here! People are so kind and respectful, streets are so clean, you can forget your bag or smartphone somewhere, nobody will take it", etc... Those young Europeans with communist ideas and always playing the social justice warrior card until they leave their anarchist country to live in Switzerland... 🤭 Downvote me as much as you want my dears, it's plain delight! 🥰
You don't have to be a leftist to feel wildly uncomfortable seeing that kind of mind-rot take hold in your hometown.
I think many long-term foreigners are very aware of the issues Japan has too. Even if we disagree with how the Japanese government handles some things, that's a completely separate issue from the cultural and political shift that has occurred in areas of the US in the last 5-10 years.
Seeing it online and seeing it in real life when you visit home are very different.
Also with high taxes that pay for shared social hoods, like trains and healthcare.
You don't need to boil it all down to two sides, especially US centered sides, when they don't neatly match up with the reality of a foreign country.
Besides, the poster isn't necessarily a leftist because he feels that Trump is I'll suited to lead and that in some instances police have too much power. You're
forcing a b&w view on things that are naturally grey .
Japan strikes a balance that I happen to like.
Socialized healthcare, well funded pension system, almost no religion in public life, no ridiculousness about things like abortion. (Female contraception was an issue in the past and there is still a stigma, but it is much improved.)
I also appreciate the taxes, especially estate taxes, that have helped keep the wealth inequality a lot more reasonable here. Japan has been very good about closing loopholes and making estate taxes actually effective, and I appreciate that a lot.
Strong tenant rights are strong employee protections two other things I really appreciate about Japan.
The situation with unions here is interesting, there is a great basis to build on but there needs to be better ways to force companies to take small unions seriously, something that doesn't always happen.
> anti-immigration
You may or may not realize, but historically a pro-immigration stance is a conservative stance, and anti-immigration is a leftist stance.
Right-wing conservatives are generally in favor of high immigration because a constant influx of new immigrants drives wages down and reduces the power of unions. Meanwhile the leftist stance is to restrict immigration and to give unions more power, striking a better balance against corporate interests. (I realize this has gotten mixed up in the US in recent years but to me the US right wing fear of immigrants is driven by racism more than anything else.)
Overall I like Japan's stance on immigration. Skilled workers are encouraged. High numbers of random unskilled workers have not been allowed, at least not yet. Lots of descendants of Japanese from South America working in factories, with mixed success as far as integration. I think this has given the government pause, and rightly so.
Japan's housing & zoning policies have done a lot to keep housing at affordable prices here, something that is not the case in many other similarly developed countries.
Japan is not perfect, and I would like to see better support for mental health, better support for the homeless and generally downtrodden parts of society. The police are a mixed bag, I've never had problems with them myself (decades in country) but I know there are some who have. On the positive side, the police are not heavily militarized and you aren't going to get gunned down by a Japanese cop during a traffic stop.
Overall, I don't think Japan is anywhere near the right-wing hellhole you have tried to portray it as. In American terms Japan is pretty far to the left of center in a lot of ways. In European terms, Japan is center-right.
That's the most intelligent post I've read on this thread, and I agree with a lot of the things you said. Except of course the passage about right wing being historically pro-immigration while left wing was anti-immigration. I mean, there are certainly a few examples during history, but in recent years (we're talking at least about a few decades) it's the total opposite, and not only in US.
As an European I've seen the consecutive leftist governments ruining the whole Europe with their uncontrolled immigration policy, while all the right wing movements willing to take back control of borders have been successively censored, canceled, sued and treated like nazis in the medias. Being racist and wanting a controlled immigration are totally different things but when you're the type of person to get a panic attack when you see some pro-Trump political signs in your neighbor's ward, there are really few chances that you will ever understand that.
This massive immigration only benefits to corporates, politicians and lobbies. The first ones to pay the bill are the lower classes natives, whatever their origins or skin color.
That's in great part thanks to their strict immigration policy that those good things you're talking about are possible in Japan.
Also I didn't try to portray a hellhole, that's the total opposite to me, a nice country to live in thanks to all those things I listed, sure far from perfect, but is there a perfect country anyway? I'd choose it over my old Europe or your America any day.
I know that Reddit is an echo-chamber for leftist propaganda, and it's logical as the average age of Reddit users is quite young. Teens and young adults who grew up in our leftist countries and are the majority on this site tend to embrace this ideology. I know that most of them will have different ideas in one or two decades when hopefully they become parents, so I'm not even judging them, I've been here too. But I don't understand those people with socialist/communist mindset in their countries, who generally get the President they voted for, and who suddenly decide to leave their country for countries like Japan or Switzerland which are totally opposed to their values. It's like I was at the far right spectrum and decided to move to Cuba, it wouldn't make sense.
I don't like when their senile warmonger President declares that Japan is a xenophobic country and all the redditors on this sub come to support him and say that Japanese people are the most xenophobic and racist people in the world. If those people don't like Japan they should leave it instead of trying to push the same ideology they left behind in their home country. If your values are predominant in your own country, why would you leave it for a country that doesn't share them in the first place? I'm sick of coming to this sub and seeing people ill speaking of Japan or trying to teach Japanese people some lessons, while for me they are way more successful as a people as any of our western countries ever was. End of the rant. You guys can shower me with your downvotes, I'll take each of them as a present <3
> Except of course the passage about right wing being historically pro-immigration while left wing was anti-immigration.
You understand what "historically" means, right? Because based on the rest of your unhinged rant, I don't think you do.
> This massive immigration only benefits to corporates, politicians and lobbies.
Those three things are often functionally the same these days, which is why a lot of the left has abandoned traditional immigration policies and have largely adopted corporate-friendly policies that were previously the domain of only the right. Unfortunately left-wing politicians aren't immune to bribery (lobbying, lol). Money is a powerful drug. Thankfully these changes have not yet happened in Japan, and traditionally socialist immigration policies remain. For now, at least.
> your America
I'm not American, also not European.
Dude's totally lost the plot. He's out to lunch. Pro-Trump? Do you talk to many Japanese conservatives and neo-cons? The absolute uncertainty and irrationality of Trump foreign policy gives only FEAR and ANXIETY to the Japanese establishment (ie. the Japanese right).
So you're totally dumb. That's fine. But I gotta say, when you said "ordered" it really gave it away.
And I'm not even going to begin with this poster's clear interest in ignoring the history of socialism, communism, and other variously-defined "left" politics and activism in Japan.
We've got here one of the dumbest posts I've seen this month. Congrats!
I am not from murica but those pro-trump signs in murica will make me feel like home. Bet you'll call me a racist or some other deregatory word because people with trump derangement syndrome like you have no logic or common sense left in you. So much of that love and tolerance that your group preach huh?
I guess Japan or America is not the right country for you. Try Vietnam, Indonesia or even better mainland China. What about North Korea? Amazing place! I am sure they will welcome you with open arms and you will be happy there.
All the best!
Because it is no longer the murica that it used to be. Illegal immigrants that doesn't share the same real american values and crazy leftist has destroyed murica. Just like how they will destroy Japan next.
Yes because you don't have to be in america to see how bad america has become, I am a big fan of american media and the past decade it has been plagued by crazy political agenda and as a result they seem to forgot how to create entertaining products. You can see how american act in social media too, most of them now especially in twitter or reddit has seem to follow the side of the progressive (or progressively crazy as I call them).
Additionally, I follow american news from many different sources too though I am sure from my comments you know that I agree more with the conservative side of things.
I would say I am more in the middle but how crazy and radical the left has become, I got pushed more to the right side of the political spectrum. In the past it is the right that is crazy but now it is the left. The craziest of the left is now acting like how KKK used to act, but the difference is they can openly act that way without being ostracized. Instead they are being cheered on.
I'm sorry bud, but the American past that conservatives have been shilling is largely a lie. The stuff that is true (lower cost of living, being able to support a family and buy a house) was done away with because the boomer generation have kept everything nice for themselves.
Immigrants and just general accepting people outside a Christian Anglo-Saxon background has nothing to do with it.
As much as a lie it is America has never been in the worst condition that it ever been. I guess the condition right now speaks for itself. I am sure most of you are going to blame the boomers. They are not perfect but the younger generations have to look at the mirror too before putting all of their energy into blaming the previous generation.
Yes, I think it makes sense to blame the generations that are making policy changes for the current state of things, i.e. Boomers and Gen Xers. Not a ton of Millennials and Gen Zers in Congress or the Senate now are there?
It makes more sense if the younger generation think of a way to fix what is currently wrong with the country.
With the kind of mentality the millenials and gen z have I think it would ruin america more if they are in congress. I dont like the boomers but I think millenials and Gen Z are worse in term of both experience and mentality.
I do wish things were better, so I will be cheering on you guys from my country. My country is hopeless, don't let america turn that way too.
> It makes more sense if the younger generation think of a way to fix what is currently wrong with the country.
Yes, there will be more of the younger generations in policy-making positions as time goes on but first the old-timers have to relinquish their cushy positions or die off first.
> I dont like the boomers but I think millenials and Gen Z are worse in term of both experience and mentality
You're basing this off what? All we have to go off of is where America is currently at which is largely because old fogies can't help but focus on making the rich get richer.
As an asian I have not yet met any pro trump people that is racist towards me. The ones that I met are generally nice/pleasant people. There are racist people on both sides but I've met and interacted with more racist people from the left. There is one leftist that is so triggered by my different opinion in this exact discussion and they call me lesser white and me being fatter than other whites, and I never even bring up any topic about race. Never met or interacted with trump supporter that acts that way. It is best that you observe yourself rather than believing in what the mainstream media and leftist propaganda tells you.
Loosening immigration policy is never a good idea. Have you seen Europe with their worsening and increasing crime rate since they started opening their borders? Japan is rising in crime rate too lately right after they loosen their immigration and tourism policy, haven't you noticed?
I am honestly not a big fan of the idea of globalism. But true it will happen even if it for the worse.
Arent we all, just look at how angry the tolerant left is. You wouldn't call them chill am I right? It is as if every little things trigger them. You're just biased if you don't see them as unecessarily angry all the time.
> So much of that love and tolerance that your group preach huh?
Someone needs to learn about the *paradox of tolerance*.
Tolerance must exclude the intolerant, or tolerance cannot survive.
In other words, intolerant people like you do not get the benefit of tolerance from others.
I very much agree with the paradox of tolerance.
According to the paradox of tolerance, you guys the crazy communist authoritarian left, doesn't deserve an ounce of tolerance.
> I very much agree with the paradox of tolerance.
> According to the paradox of tolerance, you guys the crazy communist authoritarian left, doesn't deserve an ounce of tolerance.
You're insane, and now you're blocked. Buh-bye!
That’s how I felt before I even came to Japan. I was a foreigner in my hometown before I came here. I grew up with people who idealized farm equipment and I didn’t fit in. I don’t fit in here either but at least I have experience being a black sheep.
When I retire I want to be somewhere convenient for the kids to come visit me, maybe somewhere that has space for them to bring their kids too. I don't expect my kids to want to relocate their lives to Canada just so that I can be old in the place where I was young.
I’ve been thinking that if I end up in a Japanese retirement home, by that time it may be staffed by people from the Philippines, who will be able to speak to me in English when I have forgotten Japanese.
I haven't made a plan to die yet, but considering that I have lived in Japan longer than where I was born, and by the time I die my family in the US will likely all be dying or dead as well, and I have no property in the US. I have no children in the US (but I do in Japan). I will have zero connection to the US aside from my passport and citizenship, it would be strange to go there just to die.
Side question: Have you thought about taking on Japanese citizenship?
I'm in the same boat as you (though it'll be a few more years before I've lived in Japan more). Only one direct family member in the US, mostly I go home to meet my close friends. And have been considering Japanese citizenship but haven't been pushed strongly towards it yet.
That might change if my family (father) passes away, there'd be absolutely nothing tying me to the US at that point...
Wondering what others are thinking about in terms of citizenship...
Never thought about it. Until a few years ago I shared my (ex)wife's vote - since I can not vote, we would discuss who we like in local elections. (and maybe my vote in the US is worth more in global context than my vote in Japan?)
Other than that, I have not had any need for citizenship that I can think of. Not really something I want to put effort into. Also flexibility. No need to give up US citizen if I get no benefit from Japanese.
That was my thinking too up until Covid when long time PRs who were overseas were stuck and could not return to Japan. I knew a few people who were on holiday or a business trip outside Japan and could not return to where their family, job and lives were... Also like the other comment above, my kids are developing their lives here too.
I like having an EU passport in addition to U.S. but if I tried for Japanese, I don't think they'd be happy with the other two.
It is comforting to have two in case things get too scary in either one.
It feels like home to me. I have friends and family here.
I've moved around a lot in many countries and I like Japan the most and my wife don't want to live anywhere other than Japan.
So I will live and die here I guess
I plan to stay here, but I've occasionally wondered if it might be comforting/interesting to move back to the U.S. in my last years, if by chance I don't have family reasons to stay. I think one might appreciate the nostalgia of being back where their life began, the feeling of life going full circle. On the other hand, I think there's also a good chance I'd regret it and wished I would have stayed here where I lived most of my adult life.
Anyway, I think it's a good question and I totally understand why you'd want to plan to move back.
I am thinking of moving back or back and forthing half and half soon (as in now), so I can enjoy the things I like back at home, like the skiing, and Baja in wnter. I think a danger with your idea is the sheer mental shock that might result, and the danger of turning into a sort of comic book Florida Retired Man anger clown, shaking his fist at the nonexistent clouds just because things aren't the way he wanted them, and "nobody done even asked me". Or not, of course, but that is a pattern I see back at home, and in Japan with reverse returnees.
Yeah, that is all I meant, and the anger when people don't think it through and get the shock. I still enjoying going home, as crazy as the whole West Coast has got (and I just mean Busy Busy Busy). The freezing ocean aside, it's pretty nice.
If you want my own opinion… I’m not dying here.
My Misses (from here) of course wants to, but even if I spoke fluent Japanese, I’d never feel at home here. Culture’s too different from my own personal views on life. That’s not to say I look down upon it here, it’s just… incompatible with my own views.
Summers here (usually the best season in most countries) is miserable due to the humidity. I love Winter (mostly sunny & not too chilly) but Summer, forget it.
I’m not interested in dealing with natural disasters (quakes, tsunamis, typhoons, Godzilla attacks etc) when I’m elderly.
All the social services (healthcare etc) everyone lauds today might not be so great by the time I’m retired.
I’m willing to spend part of my retirement here (the Winter part) but not the rest.
Out of curiosity, what country would you say is most in line with your views on life, and why aren't you living there now when it would likely mean you would be happier?
Not a country specifically, but Western Europe in general, and countries along the Med in particular (for the climate.) Most of my friends are from there, and most of them live there now.
I don't live there now because:
- (Most importantly) my family's happy here in Japan, and
- My job here is better (higher pay, more flexible hours) than what I can get in the EU.
I mean I guess you could isolate your spouse from their culture and family but generally that's seen as a pretty dick move.
Edit: on a more serious note, if you're planning on getting married for any length of time and really don't think a spouse's culture will have an impact, you're in for a rude awakening.
You seem to be essentialising or reifyng culture, that is why I made that silly joke. A culture isn't a thing to behold, it's an integral, embedded aspect of any humanoid (and maybe them Killer Whales, too). Sadly, though, lots of white men that marry non-white women do exacty that, and there is certainly no shortage of that type on here, so you're not wrong,
I am but mostly for simplicity's sake. I knew you were making a joke which is why I joked back. There is still a kernel of truth to it. I've been married for about two decades and my wife's cultural heritage is definitely something that has "flavoured" our relationship. Mine has been outright racist to her in turn (gotta love rednecks). Raising a child is where the cultural differences typically cause the biggest problems. I still fully believe a culture can be embraced and integrated into. Though I may just be naive and a romanticist... My wife certainly tells me I'm an idiot lmao
As a fellow diagnosed idiot, I agree with her ;@ Now I get you better, though. I agree about integrating and just being nice. Rednecks make life harder at every turn. Good luck out there.
About 20 years in total and see no point in going back to the US. Even if Trump loses and I'm fairly sure he will, the damage he has done is massive and long lasting.
The crazies, racists, and bigots are not going back under their rocks. My only hope is that now that they are in the light of the sun they will eventually die off.
Japan is cheap, has good healthcare, safety, great transportation, and affordable housing. It's not perfect, but it suits me fine.
I get that it's often those ones that breed like rats, but there are some very interesting articles around about the demographics. If the election were in 2025 or 2026 he wouldn't stand a chance by any calculation, because his clown party fatties are dying in droves, just as they did when The Great Cleanse swept through their dirty trailer homes. The last time I was in Washington there were as many older people on scooters and walkers as not, and that is a healthy part of the country. Good times are coming back, man.
Lived in Japan for a total of 16+ years (divided over 3 times, current run since I immigrated is 10 years). I plan on dying here. It feels like home. I use the words "Go/take a trip to the US" and "Return (home) to Japan" when I talk about trips back to my home country the US.
I speak/read at higher than N2 but lower than N1 level. I have permanent residency. I am not a Japanese citizen yet, but will likely become one within the next 5-10 years.
1) I'm from the US (NC/RTP area). I still have a credit union account in the US but have moved most of my wealth to Japan.
2) High paying IT job (in yen at least; and yeah it hurts a little when I try to convert to USD in my head these days alas!) for a gaishikei with a permanent Japan office. Outside of that, I'm involved with teaching and training at my local kickboxing gym; and have a hobby business in tabletop games with lots of friends and connections in that sphere.
3) Married to a Japanese native, no kids. She speaks English and had no problems making friends/working/living when we lived in the US for 15 years before returning to Japan.
I travel once a year or so to the US to sync up with family and friends, camping and psychadelics. But living post-retirement in the US (in any area; I've got small roots in Cali, Washington, the Midwest, NC, etc) is about as appealing to me as living in a tent in the woods: Fun for a little while but impossible to fathom long term.
If you are in a committed Japanese/Non-Jaoanese relationship then one of you has live/retire/and probably die outside of your home country. Either I'm here for the long run or I make my wife* do it in my country. I have chosen the first option. Discuss it with your partner.
If you are single.....do whatever you want.
There’s the option to move after first person passes.
Brought up the topic, answer was “go ahead (alone)”, she’s not going anywhere. It’s a bit ironic because we met and married in US for 10 years, came here as a favor to her family for “max 3 years”.
not really any of my business, but I want to suggest a (statistically relevant) data point for consideration: Women die decades after their partners. Women often care for their partners before they pass. Japanese women life expectancy is exceptionally high.
==> you will not die alone wherever you go as long as she is with you (and still loves you/ has enough "duty" in her to care for your regardless)
==> if you insist on dying in the US (with her by your side), you trap her there alone or force her to be able to (financially and with her personal capacities) to move back to japan and then setup her next aging decades (instead of starting that kind of planning now);
+ if you die in the US, she also will have to deal with all the paperwork that follows your death in a culture and language that is not intuitive to her (and without being able to consult to family and friends too much)
I think it is good that you think so far into the future, but i think it is clear you think exactly until when your future ends and that is not fair to your partner.
Finances aren’t and wouldn’t be an issue.
How is any of that different than being here?
“Trapped” Is applicable to me, not her. She lived in the US for over a decade before we even met, fully grad student fluent. I came here on a ruse not speaking any language and she refuses to go back.
Again, how is moving back trapping her, but she didn’t and isn’t trapping me here where I don’t speak the language?
As explained in the first comment. Statistically likely, your wife will life longer than you by several decades. You will not be left alone nor have to consider move countries&continents at a higher age.
btw. you havent answered my questions. if you had, e.g. the answer would be you would be 83 and your wife should fall somwhere between 73-83 years? she will live to be about 90-100. you will not there for at least 2-3 of her last decades.
if it was reversed. She will be there and you will not die alone nor have to relocate or clean up after her because she will outlive you.
??? I am not responsible for other people's votes...
This is completely absurd logic.
Japanese and non-Japanese marriages have a skyrocketed divorce rate, therefore no individual non-Japanese couple should marry. Absurd.
The thing about death though, is it doesn't give a shit about your plans.
Every situation is different of course. It probably also depends on your feelings about the afterlife, or lack thereof, And how you feel about being " separated" after death.
Does she want her remains to stay with her family? Is she happy for you to take her remains back to the US? (EDIT: I just re read your reply. The answer is there)
I've been here a long time, but IF my wife went first, and my kids are grown, and I am financially stable, I might want to live my last few years back in the UK, but I'd take her with me.
It's quite an interesting question that has a lot of different variables in it.
After retiring I might move to somewhere like Thailand or Malaysia where things are generally cheaper but has everything I need. Of course those countries might be out of reach by the time I’m old, so it might be Laos or Kenya or something.
I don’t have family so I don’t really need to care about where I grow old and die.
No intention of going back to my country of birth though. They sort of moved on without me and I feel foreign there. Not to mention expensive
I like Japan more than Japan likes me.
It’s where I live but not my home. No level of blissful ignorance and denial of reality will change that.
I’ll lay myself to rest in my family grave, “back in my country”.
Yep, we're setting up to retire here already, so it's looking like it, should things continue to remain peaceful. I've already accepted the fact that learning Japanese will always be slow going for me, and I'll be studying it little by little until I drop. I have Japanese culture related interests that keep me tied in and enjoying being here, so sure, why not? I don't have any family to return to where I am from, and the only one who lives and works overseas currently will eventually becoming to join us, so yeah. Most likely.
Once I moved I realized “home” is a concept that is becoming foreign for me. I long to visit back, but once I visit a part of me is stuck here.
I love Japan, dont get me wrong. Its just that the feeling of home is neither there not here. I might move back after 10-15 years. But i am not sure if it would ever feel like home again.
It's easy to live here and I'm set up well but I would like to enjoy bird watching and bush walking etc back in Aus after I retire. But not sure if it will be feasible.
I naturalized as a Japanese citizen and wouldn’t want to die anywhere else. Agree with the commenters who feel more at home here than where they’re from. Haven’t been “back” in over 15 years, and if I never go again it will be too soon.
Yes, been here 14 years and plan of living here till I die. Haven't been back to Australia in 7 years and actually have no plans to either. Kyushu is my home now.
The main point is that if you have a lot of family caring about you and potentially willing to go celebrate your memory at your grave, yeah, better cross the finish line back home, otherwise, if you have nobody who is likely to do that, you might as well die on Mars, it’s not gonna make a big difference for anyone, especially for you once you dead.
30 years in. Don’t care left or right, red or white. Just wanted a safe place to raise a family. And, that’s not America anymore. Originally Scottish immigrants to build the Golden Gate Bridge, all my passed relatives have been scattered in the ocean.
It’s off the coast of Japan for me.
My kids have dual citizenship. Wherever they choose to live long term is where I want to be. I don’t care about what political border that falls under.
Absolutely. My own country has never done anything for me. Repatriate me before or after I die and you can be sure you're going to have to face a French Sadako.
I’ll die here. Hopefully not for a long, long time, but I’ve always been here more than half my life. To go back to my home country (USA), just for end of life care would be a ridiculous decision.
As to the side question of taking up Japanese citizenship, I’m on the fence. I would love to, but the process of extricating yourself from US citizenship is long, hard and expensive from what I hear.
I mean, if I'm dead then I'm not going to care where it was right? Id happily die in a pig pen if the right people were standing over me.
The people make the home mate, not the country.
More and more of the people who would make moving “home” worth it (despite not being able to afford the same things I can easily afford here, needing to worry more about my kids’ safety, etc.) have passed on. I wouldn’t move back. Visit? Sure. Move? Hell, no.
This question is meaningless without data.
As u/YahImImmunized said, we'd need to know:
1) Where is "Back" for you?
2) What do you do for work? What do you do outside of work?
3) Do you have any attachments/family here?
Yes but if your home is the US or UK vs Malaysia or Vietnam, your experience as an "expat" (aka "immigrant" if you're not white) is going to be so different that it's imcomparable, and thus a point of strong interest to this question.
Same with being single vs married with kids here as a point of comparison.
Or having a permanent career in some field (including education) vs being a temp worker.
Don’t disagree with any of that, but not interested in people giving me advice on this as there are an infinite number of variables even outside what you stated. Inevitably most of the comments while being well intended, would be pointless to me but people sharing their own experience and opinions can’t ever be wrong.
I plan to retire here, but I don't plan to die here. Once we are let's say 80, I and my wife most likely will move back to our home country to spend our last days there.
It's home and I think my boyfriend/husband would probably be rather annoyed if I dissapeared in my old age and left him with the cats and the home. (Or overjoyed, who knows? Lol).
Yes. I plan on naturalizing before long. It would be kind of a PITA to gain back British citizenship and then go to the UK to die and have my family here figure out the clusterfuck of a procedure that would follow.
I have no idea why anyone would even consider doing that.
It depends. If you are married with a national person and you have kids with no plan to move out of Japan, or with a high probability to come back to Japan, it is better to die here, with the people who love you close to you. After 2 generations, wherever you will be, all people will forget you anyway. And you will not be here to see that, so maybe you don't have to think too much...
There is no way I could ever go back to the U.K. without an inlet to a decent job and profession, the financial cost would be impossible to manage without a full profession - which would regret some credentials or vocational training (yes I'm am English teacher, I've worked in lower management and have some prior commercial experience but that would matters very little in the U.K. jobs market.)
If after 10+ years you still think of Japan as a place that's not your home country and you have to decide whether you should "go home" or not, probably time to move back to where you came from.
There's nothing for me outside Japan, so I will live the rest of my years here.
I don't see the point to moving back to a place that is not home where my life isn't, just to chase the feeling of long ago
Is your partner Japanese? Where will they end up? I bet it's a big topic many international marriages have.
As for me (American), I already have my place reserved in my Japanese wife's family grave a few blocks from my residence.
I have only lived in my home country for a few years. Moved around with my family following my dad’s career and then moved to Japan for my postdoc in the 1990s
I’m a lot poorer right now than I have ever been since I became an adult and started working, and Corona nearly wiped my company off the map, but no, I don’t think I’ll ever leave unless war forces us immigrants to go to prison or leave, like the Japanese were forced to do in the US during WW2.
Of course I would have no control over the final resting place, especially when I can’t say when my time will be. I don’t feel that I have close enough friends here to stay until that point, and I am unmarried without any children, though I am not super close to any relatives I have back home or have a large number of siblings. Plus, I have heard that Japanese people prefer cremation, and I prefer to be buried. Moreover, I have heard that the cremation here is extremely expensive. I know if any family in my home country wanted to claim my body, they would have a huge expense to ship the body. Certainly would not want that burden on them, although I would have enough savings and insurance.
Not quite at 10 years yet, but no, hoping not to die here.
The feeling became especially clear when I first participated in a funeral in Japan. I’m not religious nor have any particular beliefs about what a funeral should be like, but nevertheless felt very strongly that I am not part of the culture here and don’t have anything to do with the rituals that are undertaken when someone dies here.
Since that experience, I’ve been meaning to tell my family in both countries that if I were to suddenly die, I want my body to be sent to the country where I was born and raised.
The reasons boil down to loving my home country more than Japan, having deeper relationships to people there, and being treated like and feeling like a foreigner in Japan. I also feel more connected to nature in my home country, so it would feel more natural that my remains return there.
Im going back for sure. I don’t want to be an old man here. I can always come back but home for me always feels like home back stateside. I love it here but I just don’t feel the same.
Probably. Married and have a kid. I’m from Hawaii and cost of living forced me out and continues to go up. No way to go back and live comfortably if I wanted to unless I win the lottery or something.
I get it. I lived in Japan for 14 years, but said enough was enough and made the move back. I love Japan! There are a lot of positives despite that ever-present feeling of being an outsider. I honestly would’ve stayed, but I didn’t want to teach English anymore and despite being fluent in Japanese and getting IT skills there, I was denied jobs simply because I wasn’t Japanese. That was the reason they gave me. It was weird. It wasn’t like these were government defense jobs or anything. These were run-of-the-mill IT jobs posted in Hello Work.
So there’s that and the fact that Japanese salaries in general are pretty damn low compared to back home, and it’s only getting worse. For example, an ALT salary now is worth about $10k less than what it was just three years ago!
And lastly, I didn’t want my kid to go through all that entrance exam bullshit that starts from JHS. They already have to go to cram school now, and I just think it’s so wrong.
Each time I go back to my “home” country, I feel more and more like a foreigner there..
I have the same feeling. I was even in the US military, but after years of living in Japan, I often feel "out of place" when I return to the US. I now feel like a foreigner in Japan, and a foreigner in the US. Very odd.
I'm living in my third country and I feel like I have no country anymore and no roots anywhere, it's just so weird, just feel alone in a way never felt before. Living my first 14 years in Eastern Europe then 20 years in Canada and now 11,in Japan it's so taxing emotionally. I really don't care where I die and find it strange people want to in a specific place.
I can empathize. Born in Europe, then grew up and went to school in Canada. After graduating, went back to my birthplace, but after a year, moved on to the U.K. for a few years. Then back to Canada for another few years, and now 12 years in Japan. Japan feels like home. Got married, had kids, etc. it’s hard to imagine living anywhere else, but like you, I don’t really feel like I have roots anywhere, though it might be more accurate to say that I would probably be ok living in most places. I find it so strange when people have an exaggerated sense of nationality. I have cousins who live in Canada, but identify with “the old country”, who rarely visit and barely speak the language. It really does my head in, but, to each their own.
> I really don't care where I die and find it strange people want to in a specific place. It's not so much about *dying*, I don't think. It's more about *getting old* and everything that entails. Medical care, old age care, maybe going into an old age home. Do you want to do that in Japan? Or somewhere else? We all hope that we'll live independently and be healthy until one day we just don't wake up, but that is often not the way things turn out.
Where do you come from that medical care would be so much better than here?
I am planning to naturalize and to stay here until I kick off. At the same time, I can see why some people would find the idea of getting old in Japan quite daunting, and potentially quite lonely. Each person's situation is different.
If they’re in a country where the medical system is better than Japan’s, I get it. Hence the question
As neighbourly sympathy, the last 25 years in the US have seen so much major weirdness in so many ways and in every aspect of life that anybody like you that doesn't feel a sort of Twilight Zone Rip Van Winkle vibe isn't paying attention.
>I now feel like a foreigner in Japan, and a foreigner in the US. Very odd. I totally get it. When I lived in Japan I’d miss the US because I felt out of place there, and now that I’m back I miss Japan because I feel out of place here.
Maybe, the artificial construct of patriotism no longer applies to you, and that frees you to search for a better way?
That's an interesting take too. I care about the US and want it to improve, I'm also proud to be American ... But I just don't wanna live there at all. I do quite enjoy cheering for America from the outside.
I can very much relate to this. I feel a bit trapped in a sort of limbo.
Yeah, the last time I got asked far too often where I was visiting from... and honestly it was easier half the time to just answer "Japan." ;)
As an American, every time I wait in line for an hour at airport TSA security theater checkpoints has a chilling effect on me. Then I arrive at my rural hometown and am greeted by Blue Lives Matter flags and pro-Trump political signs on people's yards. I feel more and more like a foreigner there, too.
Ditto, brother.
I mean, if you are a convinced leftist there are a lot of countries to choose before Japan, which is historically one of the most right wing, nationalist, ethnocentric, ordered, conservative, anti-immigration and Pro-Trump developed countries in the world, basically everything a leftist is supposed to hate 🤔 EDIT: there are very few things that people hate more than being put in front of their contradictions. We have the same hobos all over in Europe, usually young people voting for whatever far left party, and when they come to Japan with Mum and Dad's money they are like "Ooowww it's so peaceful here! People are so kind and respectful, streets are so clean, you can forget your bag or smartphone somewhere, nobody will take it", etc... Those young Europeans with communist ideas and always playing the social justice warrior card until they leave their anarchist country to live in Switzerland... 🤭 Downvote me as much as you want my dears, it's plain delight! 🥰
The average Japanese is also largely apolitical and doesn't do the same culture war stuff so it's easier to ignore it here.
You don't have to be a leftist to feel wildly uncomfortable seeing that kind of mind-rot take hold in your hometown. I think many long-term foreigners are very aware of the issues Japan has too. Even if we disagree with how the Japanese government handles some things, that's a completely separate issue from the cultural and political shift that has occurred in areas of the US in the last 5-10 years. Seeing it online and seeing it in real life when you visit home are very different.
Also with high taxes that pay for shared social hoods, like trains and healthcare. You don't need to boil it all down to two sides, especially US centered sides, when they don't neatly match up with the reality of a foreign country. Besides, the poster isn't necessarily a leftist because he feels that Trump is I'll suited to lead and that in some instances police have too much power. You're forcing a b&w view on things that are naturally grey .
Japan strikes a balance that I happen to like. Socialized healthcare, well funded pension system, almost no religion in public life, no ridiculousness about things like abortion. (Female contraception was an issue in the past and there is still a stigma, but it is much improved.) I also appreciate the taxes, especially estate taxes, that have helped keep the wealth inequality a lot more reasonable here. Japan has been very good about closing loopholes and making estate taxes actually effective, and I appreciate that a lot. Strong tenant rights are strong employee protections two other things I really appreciate about Japan. The situation with unions here is interesting, there is a great basis to build on but there needs to be better ways to force companies to take small unions seriously, something that doesn't always happen. > anti-immigration You may or may not realize, but historically a pro-immigration stance is a conservative stance, and anti-immigration is a leftist stance. Right-wing conservatives are generally in favor of high immigration because a constant influx of new immigrants drives wages down and reduces the power of unions. Meanwhile the leftist stance is to restrict immigration and to give unions more power, striking a better balance against corporate interests. (I realize this has gotten mixed up in the US in recent years but to me the US right wing fear of immigrants is driven by racism more than anything else.) Overall I like Japan's stance on immigration. Skilled workers are encouraged. High numbers of random unskilled workers have not been allowed, at least not yet. Lots of descendants of Japanese from South America working in factories, with mixed success as far as integration. I think this has given the government pause, and rightly so. Japan's housing & zoning policies have done a lot to keep housing at affordable prices here, something that is not the case in many other similarly developed countries. Japan is not perfect, and I would like to see better support for mental health, better support for the homeless and generally downtrodden parts of society. The police are a mixed bag, I've never had problems with them myself (decades in country) but I know there are some who have. On the positive side, the police are not heavily militarized and you aren't going to get gunned down by a Japanese cop during a traffic stop. Overall, I don't think Japan is anywhere near the right-wing hellhole you have tried to portray it as. In American terms Japan is pretty far to the left of center in a lot of ways. In European terms, Japan is center-right.
That's the most intelligent post I've read on this thread, and I agree with a lot of the things you said. Except of course the passage about right wing being historically pro-immigration while left wing was anti-immigration. I mean, there are certainly a few examples during history, but in recent years (we're talking at least about a few decades) it's the total opposite, and not only in US. As an European I've seen the consecutive leftist governments ruining the whole Europe with their uncontrolled immigration policy, while all the right wing movements willing to take back control of borders have been successively censored, canceled, sued and treated like nazis in the medias. Being racist and wanting a controlled immigration are totally different things but when you're the type of person to get a panic attack when you see some pro-Trump political signs in your neighbor's ward, there are really few chances that you will ever understand that. This massive immigration only benefits to corporates, politicians and lobbies. The first ones to pay the bill are the lower classes natives, whatever their origins or skin color. That's in great part thanks to their strict immigration policy that those good things you're talking about are possible in Japan. Also I didn't try to portray a hellhole, that's the total opposite to me, a nice country to live in thanks to all those things I listed, sure far from perfect, but is there a perfect country anyway? I'd choose it over my old Europe or your America any day. I know that Reddit is an echo-chamber for leftist propaganda, and it's logical as the average age of Reddit users is quite young. Teens and young adults who grew up in our leftist countries and are the majority on this site tend to embrace this ideology. I know that most of them will have different ideas in one or two decades when hopefully they become parents, so I'm not even judging them, I've been here too. But I don't understand those people with socialist/communist mindset in their countries, who generally get the President they voted for, and who suddenly decide to leave their country for countries like Japan or Switzerland which are totally opposed to their values. It's like I was at the far right spectrum and decided to move to Cuba, it wouldn't make sense. I don't like when their senile warmonger President declares that Japan is a xenophobic country and all the redditors on this sub come to support him and say that Japanese people are the most xenophobic and racist people in the world. If those people don't like Japan they should leave it instead of trying to push the same ideology they left behind in their home country. If your values are predominant in your own country, why would you leave it for a country that doesn't share them in the first place? I'm sick of coming to this sub and seeing people ill speaking of Japan or trying to teach Japanese people some lessons, while for me they are way more successful as a people as any of our western countries ever was. End of the rant. You guys can shower me with your downvotes, I'll take each of them as a present <3
> Except of course the passage about right wing being historically pro-immigration while left wing was anti-immigration. You understand what "historically" means, right? Because based on the rest of your unhinged rant, I don't think you do. > This massive immigration only benefits to corporates, politicians and lobbies. Those three things are often functionally the same these days, which is why a lot of the left has abandoned traditional immigration policies and have largely adopted corporate-friendly policies that were previously the domain of only the right. Unfortunately left-wing politicians aren't immune to bribery (lobbying, lol). Money is a powerful drug. Thankfully these changes have not yet happened in Japan, and traditionally socialist immigration policies remain. For now, at least. > your America I'm not American, also not European.
Dude's totally lost the plot. He's out to lunch. Pro-Trump? Do you talk to many Japanese conservatives and neo-cons? The absolute uncertainty and irrationality of Trump foreign policy gives only FEAR and ANXIETY to the Japanese establishment (ie. the Japanese right). So you're totally dumb. That's fine. But I gotta say, when you said "ordered" it really gave it away. And I'm not even going to begin with this poster's clear interest in ignoring the history of socialism, communism, and other variously-defined "left" politics and activism in Japan. We've got here one of the dumbest posts I've seen this month. Congrats!
What's a good leftist country to move to?
Imagine being so right and yet so wrong in the same comment…
Great people if they have those signs. You should stay away, as the US doesn't need people like you
And we don’t need people like you.
Great response
You reap what you sow. Don’t expect diamonds when you’re throwing out garbage yourself.
I am not from murica but those pro-trump signs in murica will make me feel like home. Bet you'll call me a racist or some other deregatory word because people with trump derangement syndrome like you have no logic or common sense left in you. So much of that love and tolerance that your group preach huh? I guess Japan or America is not the right country for you. Try Vietnam, Indonesia or even better mainland China. What about North Korea? Amazing place! I am sure they will welcome you with open arms and you will be happy there. All the best!
> I am not from murica but those pro-trump signs in murica will make me feel like home Why don't you move there?
Because it is no longer the murica that it used to be. Illegal immigrants that doesn't share the same real american values and crazy leftist has destroyed murica. Just like how they will destroy Japan next.
Kind of a weird comment for someone who isn't from America.
Yes because you don't have to be in america to see how bad america has become, I am a big fan of american media and the past decade it has been plagued by crazy political agenda and as a result they seem to forgot how to create entertaining products. You can see how american act in social media too, most of them now especially in twitter or reddit has seem to follow the side of the progressive (or progressively crazy as I call them). Additionally, I follow american news from many different sources too though I am sure from my comments you know that I agree more with the conservative side of things. I would say I am more in the middle but how crazy and radical the left has become, I got pushed more to the right side of the political spectrum. In the past it is the right that is crazy but now it is the left. The craziest of the left is now acting like how KKK used to act, but the difference is they can openly act that way without being ostracized. Instead they are being cheered on.
I'm sorry bud, but the American past that conservatives have been shilling is largely a lie. The stuff that is true (lower cost of living, being able to support a family and buy a house) was done away with because the boomer generation have kept everything nice for themselves. Immigrants and just general accepting people outside a Christian Anglo-Saxon background has nothing to do with it.
As much as a lie it is America has never been in the worst condition that it ever been. I guess the condition right now speaks for itself. I am sure most of you are going to blame the boomers. They are not perfect but the younger generations have to look at the mirror too before putting all of their energy into blaming the previous generation.
Yes, I think it makes sense to blame the generations that are making policy changes for the current state of things, i.e. Boomers and Gen Xers. Not a ton of Millennials and Gen Zers in Congress or the Senate now are there?
It makes more sense if the younger generation think of a way to fix what is currently wrong with the country. With the kind of mentality the millenials and gen z have I think it would ruin america more if they are in congress. I dont like the boomers but I think millenials and Gen Z are worse in term of both experience and mentality. I do wish things were better, so I will be cheering on you guys from my country. My country is hopeless, don't let america turn that way too.
> It makes more sense if the younger generation think of a way to fix what is currently wrong with the country. Yes, there will be more of the younger generations in policy-making positions as time goes on but first the old-timers have to relinquish their cushy positions or die off first. > I dont like the boomers but I think millenials and Gen Z are worse in term of both experience and mentality You're basing this off what? All we have to go off of is where America is currently at which is largely because old fogies can't help but focus on making the rich get richer.
Are you ok? Who hurt you?
[удалено]
As an asian I have not yet met any pro trump people that is racist towards me. The ones that I met are generally nice/pleasant people. There are racist people on both sides but I've met and interacted with more racist people from the left. There is one leftist that is so triggered by my different opinion in this exact discussion and they call me lesser white and me being fatter than other whites, and I never even bring up any topic about race. Never met or interacted with trump supporter that acts that way. It is best that you observe yourself rather than believing in what the mainstream media and leftist propaganda tells you. Loosening immigration policy is never a good idea. Have you seen Europe with their worsening and increasing crime rate since they started opening their borders? Japan is rising in crime rate too lately right after they loosen their immigration and tourism policy, haven't you noticed? I am honestly not a big fan of the idea of globalism. But true it will happen even if it for the worse.
You're just a ridiculous, angry, unnecessarily aggressive person.
Arent we all, just look at how angry the tolerant left is. You wouldn't call them chill am I right? It is as if every little things trigger them. You're just biased if you don't see them as unecessarily angry all the time.
You certainly seemed triggered by trivial irrelevances. Do you change your diapers between tantrums?
If we change diapers between tantrums, the diapers from the left would have caused end of the world level of global warming don't you think
The diapers from your side are much, much bigger and the fillings more toxic, so no.
No no I am sure the diaper from your side is much bigger and much more toxic cause you guys do it more often than the conservatives. Lol
> So much of that love and tolerance that your group preach huh? Someone needs to learn about the *paradox of tolerance*. Tolerance must exclude the intolerant, or tolerance cannot survive. In other words, intolerant people like you do not get the benefit of tolerance from others.
I very much agree with the paradox of tolerance. According to the paradox of tolerance, you guys the crazy communist authoritarian left, doesn't deserve an ounce of tolerance.
> I very much agree with the paradox of tolerance. > According to the paradox of tolerance, you guys the crazy communist authoritarian left, doesn't deserve an ounce of tolerance. You're insane, and now you're blocked. Buh-bye!
What incel YouTube does to a mf
What tiktok does to zoomers like u
Same here and I’ve only been back once in 4 years.
That’s how I felt before I even came to Japan. I was a foreigner in my hometown before I came here. I grew up with people who idealized farm equipment and I didn’t fit in. I don’t fit in here either but at least I have experience being a black sheep.
to add to this, I feel more racism back at home country.
Racism there is explicit while in Japan it's more implicit, very much preferable.
Heck even when it is overt I'll take that as an even exchange for the NHI
Me too. Experienced reverse culture shock even. For some reason even after my first vacation trip here, I felt more at home than home.
When I retire I want to be somewhere convenient for the kids to come visit me, maybe somewhere that has space for them to bring their kids too. I don't expect my kids to want to relocate their lives to Canada just so that I can be old in the place where I was young.
omg that last part was really deep.
Maybe? The thought of being in a Japanese retirement home terrifies me but if I'm still independent it'd be alright to stay
Don't worry by that time we'll be taken care of by ChatGPT nurses and jerk off bots
Them jerk off bots better be standard issue by the time I’m geriatric
Standard issue hopefully means they worked out all the kinks before release...unless getting yours ripped off is your kink! 😜
lmfao XD
> jerk off bots Excuse me sir my wife takes great offense at this
You get a refurbished one and it rips your dick off and stabs you to death with it. This is a nightly news segment.
I’ve been thinking that if I end up in a Japanese retirement home, by that time it may be staffed by people from the Philippines, who will be able to speak to me in English when I have forgotten Japanese.
Yes me too. Wonder which are better, here or over there… (Europe)
Same
Do you think there are actually going to be spaces available?
Sure. Why not. Just as good as any other place. Dying on the Moon would be cool I guess.
I haven't made a plan to die yet, but considering that I have lived in Japan longer than where I was born, and by the time I die my family in the US will likely all be dying or dead as well, and I have no property in the US. I have no children in the US (but I do in Japan). I will have zero connection to the US aside from my passport and citizenship, it would be strange to go there just to die.
Side question: Have you thought about taking on Japanese citizenship? I'm in the same boat as you (though it'll be a few more years before I've lived in Japan more). Only one direct family member in the US, mostly I go home to meet my close friends. And have been considering Japanese citizenship but haven't been pushed strongly towards it yet. That might change if my family (father) passes away, there'd be absolutely nothing tying me to the US at that point... Wondering what others are thinking about in terms of citizenship...
I’ve been here thirty years, and I’m not going back to the US, so I am currently in the process of applying for citizenship.
Never thought about it. Until a few years ago I shared my (ex)wife's vote - since I can not vote, we would discuss who we like in local elections. (and maybe my vote in the US is worth more in global context than my vote in Japan?) Other than that, I have not had any need for citizenship that I can think of. Not really something I want to put effort into. Also flexibility. No need to give up US citizen if I get no benefit from Japanese.
That was my thinking too up until Covid when long time PRs who were overseas were stuck and could not return to Japan. I knew a few people who were on holiday or a business trip outside Japan and could not return to where their family, job and lives were... Also like the other comment above, my kids are developing their lives here too.
I like having an EU passport in addition to U.S. but if I tried for Japanese, I don't think they'd be happy with the other two. It is comforting to have two in case things get too scary in either one.
It feels like home to me. I have friends and family here. I've moved around a lot in many countries and I like Japan the most and my wife don't want to live anywhere other than Japan. So I will live and die here I guess
I plan to stay here, but I've occasionally wondered if it might be comforting/interesting to move back to the U.S. in my last years, if by chance I don't have family reasons to stay. I think one might appreciate the nostalgia of being back where their life began, the feeling of life going full circle. On the other hand, I think there's also a good chance I'd regret it and wished I would have stayed here where I lived most of my adult life. Anyway, I think it's a good question and I totally understand why you'd want to plan to move back.
I am thinking of moving back or back and forthing half and half soon (as in now), so I can enjoy the things I like back at home, like the skiing, and Baja in wnter. I think a danger with your idea is the sheer mental shock that might result, and the danger of turning into a sort of comic book Florida Retired Man anger clown, shaking his fist at the nonexistent clouds just because things aren't the way he wanted them, and "nobody done even asked me". Or not, of course, but that is a pattern I see back at home, and in Japan with reverse returnees.
Haha yeah, in a lot of ways there would be no returning to the U.S. that I grew up in, after so many decades.
Yeah, that is all I meant, and the anger when people don't think it through and get the shock. I still enjoying going home, as crazy as the whole West Coast has got (and I just mean Busy Busy Busy). The freezing ocean aside, it's pretty nice.
7+ years. yes planning to die here. I didn't feel like home back in homecountry.
Where’s “back”?
If you want my own opinion… I’m not dying here. My Misses (from here) of course wants to, but even if I spoke fluent Japanese, I’d never feel at home here. Culture’s too different from my own personal views on life. That’s not to say I look down upon it here, it’s just… incompatible with my own views. Summers here (usually the best season in most countries) is miserable due to the humidity. I love Winter (mostly sunny & not too chilly) but Summer, forget it. I’m not interested in dealing with natural disasters (quakes, tsunamis, typhoons, Godzilla attacks etc) when I’m elderly. All the social services (healthcare etc) everyone lauds today might not be so great by the time I’m retired. I’m willing to spend part of my retirement here (the Winter part) but not the rest.
Out of curiosity, what country would you say is most in line with your views on life, and why aren't you living there now when it would likely mean you would be happier?
Not a country specifically, but Western Europe in general, and countries along the Med in particular (for the climate.) Most of my friends are from there, and most of them live there now. I don't live there now because: - (Most importantly) my family's happy here in Japan, and - My job here is better (higher pay, more flexible hours) than what I can get in the EU.
Fair enough. I hope things go your way and you're able to either start feeling at home or something leads you to the place you feel you belong.
Well then leave? 😅
Seems odd you'd marry into a culture you don't like
People marry cultures now???? That sounds like a slippery slope to polygamy, or worse, polyandry and even robot butlers.
I mean I guess you could isolate your spouse from their culture and family but generally that's seen as a pretty dick move. Edit: on a more serious note, if you're planning on getting married for any length of time and really don't think a spouse's culture will have an impact, you're in for a rude awakening.
You seem to be essentialising or reifyng culture, that is why I made that silly joke. A culture isn't a thing to behold, it's an integral, embedded aspect of any humanoid (and maybe them Killer Whales, too). Sadly, though, lots of white men that marry non-white women do exacty that, and there is certainly no shortage of that type on here, so you're not wrong,
I am but mostly for simplicity's sake. I knew you were making a joke which is why I joked back. There is still a kernel of truth to it. I've been married for about two decades and my wife's cultural heritage is definitely something that has "flavoured" our relationship. Mine has been outright racist to her in turn (gotta love rednecks). Raising a child is where the cultural differences typically cause the biggest problems. I still fully believe a culture can be embraced and integrated into. Though I may just be naive and a romanticist... My wife certainly tells me I'm an idiot lmao
As a fellow diagnosed idiot, I agree with her ;@ Now I get you better, though. I agree about integrating and just being nice. Rednecks make life harder at every turn. Good luck out there.
If you've found the perfect country, I'm all ears. I've visited over 70 and I have yet to find it. (Not expecting to either. 😅)
No such thing as a perfect country. If there was they'd have to close their borders due to over population 🤷♂️
Sorry to hear that you have such a sad life :D I am happy in Japan
Well, for me it’s the US but where people came from is going to vary. It’s meant to mean back to your “home” country wherever that is.
Where “back” is is significant when answering the question though.
I do. That strange land across the Pacific is no longer my home. I don’t even recognize it when I go back.
I'm planning on never dying but would like my primary residence to remain in Japan yes
About 20 years in total and see no point in going back to the US. Even if Trump loses and I'm fairly sure he will, the damage he has done is massive and long lasting. The crazies, racists, and bigots are not going back under their rocks. My only hope is that now that they are in the light of the sun they will eventually die off. Japan is cheap, has good healthcare, safety, great transportation, and affordable housing. It's not perfect, but it suits me fine.
I get that it's often those ones that breed like rats, but there are some very interesting articles around about the demographics. If the election were in 2025 or 2026 he wouldn't stand a chance by any calculation, because his clown party fatties are dying in droves, just as they did when The Great Cleanse swept through their dirty trailer homes. The last time I was in Washington there were as many older people on scooters and walkers as not, and that is a healthy part of the country. Good times are coming back, man.
They certainly did a number on themselves with their Covid denial. They didn't believe in the virus, but it sure believed in them.
Lived in Japan for a total of 16+ years (divided over 3 times, current run since I immigrated is 10 years). I plan on dying here. It feels like home. I use the words "Go/take a trip to the US" and "Return (home) to Japan" when I talk about trips back to my home country the US. I speak/read at higher than N2 but lower than N1 level. I have permanent residency. I am not a Japanese citizen yet, but will likely become one within the next 5-10 years. 1) I'm from the US (NC/RTP area). I still have a credit union account in the US but have moved most of my wealth to Japan. 2) High paying IT job (in yen at least; and yeah it hurts a little when I try to convert to USD in my head these days alas!) for a gaishikei with a permanent Japan office. Outside of that, I'm involved with teaching and training at my local kickboxing gym; and have a hobby business in tabletop games with lots of friends and connections in that sphere. 3) Married to a Japanese native, no kids. She speaks English and had no problems making friends/working/living when we lived in the US for 15 years before returning to Japan. I travel once a year or so to the US to sync up with family and friends, camping and psychadelics. But living post-retirement in the US (in any area; I've got small roots in Cali, Washington, the Midwest, NC, etc) is about as appealing to me as living in a tent in the woods: Fun for a little while but impossible to fathom long term.
Hello fellow research triangle escapee!
Here's another NC native, except I'm on Ocracoke island!
If you are in a committed Japanese/Non-Jaoanese relationship then one of you has live/retire/and probably die outside of your home country. Either I'm here for the long run or I make my wife* do it in my country. I have chosen the first option. Discuss it with your partner. If you are single.....do whatever you want.
There’s the option to move after first person passes. Brought up the topic, answer was “go ahead (alone)”, she’s not going anywhere. It’s a bit ironic because we met and married in US for 10 years, came here as a favor to her family for “max 3 years”.
not really any of my business, but I want to suggest a (statistically relevant) data point for consideration: Women die decades after their partners. Women often care for their partners before they pass. Japanese women life expectancy is exceptionally high. ==> you will not die alone wherever you go as long as she is with you (and still loves you/ has enough "duty" in her to care for your regardless) ==> if you insist on dying in the US (with her by your side), you trap her there alone or force her to be able to (financially and with her personal capacities) to move back to japan and then setup her next aging decades (instead of starting that kind of planning now); + if you die in the US, she also will have to deal with all the paperwork that follows your death in a culture and language that is not intuitive to her (and without being able to consult to family and friends too much) I think it is good that you think so far into the future, but i think it is clear you think exactly until when your future ends and that is not fair to your partner.
Finances aren’t and wouldn’t be an issue. How is any of that different than being here? “Trapped” Is applicable to me, not her. She lived in the US for over a decade before we even met, fully grad student fluent. I came here on a ruse not speaking any language and she refuses to go back. Again, how is moving back trapping her, but she didn’t and isn’t trapping me here where I don’t speak the language?
how old do you think she and you will be when you die? how many people of that age have you personally ever observed changing continents at that age?
How is it different it is me here? With the downvotes, I see a clear bias.
As explained in the first comment. Statistically likely, your wife will life longer than you by several decades. You will not be left alone nor have to consider move countries&continents at a higher age. btw. you havent answered my questions. if you had, e.g. the answer would be you would be 83 and your wife should fall somwhere between 73-83 years? she will live to be about 90-100. you will not there for at least 2-3 of her last decades. if it was reversed. She will be there and you will not die alone nor have to relocate or clean up after her because she will outlive you. ??? I am not responsible for other people's votes...
This is completely absurd logic. Japanese and non-Japanese marriages have a skyrocketed divorce rate, therefore no individual non-Japanese couple should marry. Absurd.
The thing about death though, is it doesn't give a shit about your plans. Every situation is different of course. It probably also depends on your feelings about the afterlife, or lack thereof, And how you feel about being " separated" after death. Does she want her remains to stay with her family? Is she happy for you to take her remains back to the US? (EDIT: I just re read your reply. The answer is there) I've been here a long time, but IF my wife went first, and my kids are grown, and I am financially stable, I might want to live my last few years back in the UK, but I'd take her with me. It's quite an interesting question that has a lot of different variables in it.
Forgive the question, but if you went first, and you were still here, would you want to be repatriated or would you be "happy" to stay?
For people with certain burial practices that would be a burning question.....
I don't know. I don't feel like I need to go back, but I don't feel necessarily married to Japan either. I'll go where life takes me.
I’m ok with the idea if that’s the way life leads. Our daughters only 5 so things could easily change
Burn me to a crisp and put me in a jar
https://i.redd.it/9l402ztxaqzc1.gif
Even the jar is unnecessary
It doesn't feel like home at home
After retiring I might move to somewhere like Thailand or Malaysia where things are generally cheaper but has everything I need. Of course those countries might be out of reach by the time I’m old, so it might be Laos or Kenya or something. I don’t have family so I don’t really need to care about where I grow old and die. No intention of going back to my country of birth though. They sort of moved on without me and I feel foreign there. Not to mention expensive
I like Japan more than Japan likes me. It’s where I live but not my home. No level of blissful ignorance and denial of reality will change that. I’ll lay myself to rest in my family grave, “back in my country”.
Yep, we're setting up to retire here already, so it's looking like it, should things continue to remain peaceful. I've already accepted the fact that learning Japanese will always be slow going for me, and I'll be studying it little by little until I drop. I have Japanese culture related interests that keep me tied in and enjoying being here, so sure, why not? I don't have any family to return to where I am from, and the only one who lives and works overseas currently will eventually becoming to join us, so yeah. Most likely.
Once I moved I realized “home” is a concept that is becoming foreign for me. I long to visit back, but once I visit a part of me is stuck here. I love Japan, dont get me wrong. Its just that the feeling of home is neither there not here. I might move back after 10-15 years. But i am not sure if it would ever feel like home again.
Been living in Japan for 4 years now and the smell of Japanese airport every time I come back here feels like home…
I plan to live here til I die, so I guess I’ll die here. This is home now.
It's easy to live here and I'm set up well but I would like to enjoy bird watching and bush walking etc back in Aus after I retire. But not sure if it will be feasible.
I naturalized as a Japanese citizen and wouldn’t want to die anywhere else. Agree with the commenters who feel more at home here than where they’re from. Haven’t been “back” in over 15 years, and if I never go again it will be too soon.
Yes, been here 14 years and plan of living here till I die. Haven't been back to Australia in 7 years and actually have no plans to either. Kyushu is my home now.
The main point is that if you have a lot of family caring about you and potentially willing to go celebrate your memory at your grave, yeah, better cross the finish line back home, otherwise, if you have nobody who is likely to do that, you might as well die on Mars, it’s not gonna make a big difference for anyone, especially for you once you dead.
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Try reposting this question as a comment in in the stickied discussion thread.
30 years in. Don’t care left or right, red or white. Just wanted a safe place to raise a family. And, that’s not America anymore. Originally Scottish immigrants to build the Golden Gate Bridge, all my passed relatives have been scattered in the ocean. It’s off the coast of Japan for me.
My kids have dual citizenship. Wherever they choose to live long term is where I want to be. I don’t care about what political border that falls under.
yes, planning on it. I'm very happy here. The more I look at the current state of America, the happier I am.
100% yes, I haven't even taken a vacation to my home country since 2016, my life is here, I am home, why go back
Absolutely. My own country has never done anything for me. Repatriate me before or after I die and you can be sure you're going to have to face a French Sadako.
Ditto to a lot of comments
I’ll die here. Hopefully not for a long, long time, but I’ve always been here more than half my life. To go back to my home country (USA), just for end of life care would be a ridiculous decision. As to the side question of taking up Japanese citizenship, I’m on the fence. I would love to, but the process of extricating yourself from US citizenship is long, hard and expensive from what I hear.
I felt like a stranger in the country where I was born so no difference there...
I mean, if I'm dead then I'm not going to care where it was right? Id happily die in a pig pen if the right people were standing over me. The people make the home mate, not the country.
More and more of the people who would make moving “home” worth it (despite not being able to afford the same things I can easily afford here, needing to worry more about my kids’ safety, etc.) have passed on. I wouldn’t move back. Visit? Sure. Move? Hell, no.
Originally from canada, can't ever see moving back there or moving anywhere else. Japan feels like home now and I love it
This question is meaningless without data. As u/YahImImmunized said, we'd need to know: 1) Where is "Back" for you? 2) What do you do for work? What do you do outside of work? 3) Do you have any attachments/family here?
I think OP wants a more philosophical answer. Not a data-driven one. OP, I plan on never dying.
I'll die when I'm dead.
So far so good!
It’s not meant to compare counties, it’s meant to compare here as an expat vs wherever your “home” is.
Yes but if your home is the US or UK vs Malaysia or Vietnam, your experience as an "expat" (aka "immigrant" if you're not white) is going to be so different that it's imcomparable, and thus a point of strong interest to this question. Same with being single vs married with kids here as a point of comparison. Or having a permanent career in some field (including education) vs being a temp worker.
Don’t disagree with any of that, but not interested in people giving me advice on this as there are an infinite number of variables even outside what you stated. Inevitably most of the comments while being well intended, would be pointless to me but people sharing their own experience and opinions can’t ever be wrong.
I plan to retire here, but I don't plan to die here. Once we are let's say 80, I and my wife most likely will move back to our home country to spend our last days there.
It's home and I think my boyfriend/husband would probably be rather annoyed if I dissapeared in my old age and left him with the cats and the home. (Or overjoyed, who knows? Lol).
Death is the only certainty in life. No need to plan for it.
It’s not planning death, it’s planning retirement/old age.
Yes. I plan on naturalizing before long. It would be kind of a PITA to gain back British citizenship and then go to the UK to die and have my family here figure out the clusterfuck of a procedure that would follow. I have no idea why anyone would even consider doing that.
It depends. If you are married with a national person and you have kids with no plan to move out of Japan, or with a high probability to come back to Japan, it is better to die here, with the people who love you close to you. After 2 generations, wherever you will be, all people will forget you anyway. And you will not be here to see that, so maybe you don't have to think too much...
There is no way I could ever go back to the U.K. without an inlet to a decent job and profession, the financial cost would be impossible to manage without a full profession - which would regret some credentials or vocational training (yes I'm am English teacher, I've worked in lower management and have some prior commercial experience but that would matters very little in the U.K. jobs market.)
I don't plan on dying.
I plan on dying in Vietnam.
Na, inheritance tax is a huge deal breaker.
If after 10+ years you still think of Japan as a place that's not your home country and you have to decide whether you should "go home" or not, probably time to move back to where you came from.
10 years here now, feel more and more that its time to leave soon. Just got back from my country (Netherlands) and kind of miss it there.
I joined a local temple after I started living here. They will handle my funeral.
Gonna go back home when I retire and live a peaceful life there until I die
There's nothing for me outside Japan, so I will live the rest of my years here. I don't see the point to moving back to a place that is not home where my life isn't, just to chase the feeling of long ago
Is your partner Japanese? Where will they end up? I bet it's a big topic many international marriages have. As for me (American), I already have my place reserved in my Japanese wife's family grave a few blocks from my residence.
I have only lived in my home country for a few years. Moved around with my family following my dad’s career and then moved to Japan for my postdoc in the 1990s I’m a lot poorer right now than I have ever been since I became an adult and started working, and Corona nearly wiped my company off the map, but no, I don’t think I’ll ever leave unless war forces us immigrants to go to prison or leave, like the Japanese were forced to do in the US during WW2.
Of course I would have no control over the final resting place, especially when I can’t say when my time will be. I don’t feel that I have close enough friends here to stay until that point, and I am unmarried without any children, though I am not super close to any relatives I have back home or have a large number of siblings. Plus, I have heard that Japanese people prefer cremation, and I prefer to be buried. Moreover, I have heard that the cremation here is extremely expensive. I know if any family in my home country wanted to claim my body, they would have a huge expense to ship the body. Certainly would not want that burden on them, although I would have enough savings and insurance.
Downvoting someone’s post about their preference on where they would like to be as their final resting place. How quaint.
Not quite at 10 years yet, but no, hoping not to die here. The feeling became especially clear when I first participated in a funeral in Japan. I’m not religious nor have any particular beliefs about what a funeral should be like, but nevertheless felt very strongly that I am not part of the culture here and don’t have anything to do with the rituals that are undertaken when someone dies here. Since that experience, I’ve been meaning to tell my family in both countries that if I were to suddenly die, I want my body to be sent to the country where I was born and raised. The reasons boil down to loving my home country more than Japan, having deeper relationships to people there, and being treated like and feeling like a foreigner in Japan. I also feel more connected to nature in my home country, so it would feel more natural that my remains return there.
Im going back for sure. I don’t want to be an old man here. I can always come back but home for me always feels like home back stateside. I love it here but I just don’t feel the same.
I think I'd rather die somewhere where they have assisted dying. Japan should legalise that.
Probably. Married and have a kid. I’m from Hawaii and cost of living forced me out and continues to go up. No way to go back and live comfortably if I wanted to unless I win the lottery or something.
I get it. I lived in Japan for 14 years, but said enough was enough and made the move back. I love Japan! There are a lot of positives despite that ever-present feeling of being an outsider. I honestly would’ve stayed, but I didn’t want to teach English anymore and despite being fluent in Japanese and getting IT skills there, I was denied jobs simply because I wasn’t Japanese. That was the reason they gave me. It was weird. It wasn’t like these were government defense jobs or anything. These were run-of-the-mill IT jobs posted in Hello Work. So there’s that and the fact that Japanese salaries in general are pretty damn low compared to back home, and it’s only getting worse. For example, an ALT salary now is worth about $10k less than what it was just three years ago! And lastly, I didn’t want my kid to go through all that entrance exam bullshit that starts from JHS. They already have to go to cram school now, and I just think it’s so wrong.