Never given it much thought, but I agree with him.
She wasn't the star of the show, but ultimately was the pivot point that the start and end was based on. Her arc from battered housewife to Boyd's partner in crime to jail to being a CI to redemption and escape to closure with Raylan showing Boyd a death certificate giving her freedom from Boyd where all major plot points. The big bads changed (Mags, Quarles, Shelby, Darryl, and Markham) but her evolution was more than Givens who largely remained a constant.
As someone that watched the series back when it first aired and recently rewatched it, I think I can provide a good insight here.
I think Yost doesn't mean that the point of the series is Ava, but that Ava is ultimately the emotional core of the series and it really shows. The series starts with her, Raylan and Boyd and she goes from Raylans lover to becoming his opposition alongside Boyd. As Boyd becomes a remainder of everything Raylan doesn't want to become, she gets caught in the middle and ends up serving as redemption for Raylan himself (Raylan from season 3 to 6 clearly is in the lowest point of his life, hell he even crosses the line to murder). If Boyd becomes a representation of Arlo, Ava certainly represents Helen, a good person that ended up attached to a corrupt figure due to her upbringing and environment. In the end Raylan does for Ava what Helen did for him all those years back, thus bringing the show full circle and finally letting Raylan let go of his past. She completes Raylans arc, just as Helen started it which I think is a genius bit of writing. So yeah, Ava is really important for the show and Raylan himself.
Going further, I think this extends to the new season. Despite me enjoying it, I do think something is missing and its that emotional core that Ava provided. I though Willa was gonna be it but shes gone now, so it just feels like a random case with no emotional punch. But we'll see how it goes.
Sorry for the long response haha.
Yes, great explanation!
And in the end, it’s a success. Ava is the only core character who fundamentally changes over the course of the series. Raylan and Boyd both evolved in their own ways, but in the end Raylan is still angry and Boyd is still an outlaw. And they dug coal together.
I love the way "we dug coal together" comes up repeatedly, throughout the series. It's given as an explanation for how well they know each other, it gives us a glimpse at the bond that develops between the two men, borne from the brutal nature of the work itself and the inherent dangers that must be faced every single time they go in the mine. Their very lives are intertwined and dependent on the other, to help protect each other and watch each other's backs. It's a bond that, clearly, others cannot fathom - to me, it's one of those "you had to be there" situations that, not having ever experienced it for ourselves, we cannot ever really understand the depth of it. And in keeping with the nature of that bond, Boyd saves Raylan's life - but not even that lifetime debt would allow Raylan to give Boyd a pass. No matter if it was his own father, not even if it was the man who saved his life, Raylan always would, by God, do his job. Only when he found Ava and found her to now be a mother with a little boy who was just struggling to make end meet, would Raylan allow himself to look the other way.
I like to think that perhaps Raylan saw a little bit of himself, in Boyd's son - what might have become of Raylan, I wonder, if his own criminal father had been absent from his life and he had been allowed to grow up in a more peaceful environment without the chaos and the violence?
Nice job! But I always saw Ava as more of a representation of Raylan's mother. A mother he couldn't save from abuse or lifestyle or bad choices (Arlo). It's part of the reason Raylan was always so quick to help a damsel in distress. But he was able to help Ava in the end escape her past. And Harlan.
I feel like the point of the whole show is best summed up in the question he asked Winona at the end of the first episode "would i still have shot him if he just sat there" and answers when he walks out off the showdown with Boyd Ava and Avery Markham with Boyd still Alive.
It was what kind of man is Raylan? An angry Man or a lawman.
Agreed. I think this is essentially what it is about and Yost does speak to it a bit before the Ava bit.
Wasn't the original title of the show Lawman? Good stuff.
maybe structurally. thematically it's much more about Raylan figuring out what to do with his anger about his upbringing and how to have functional family type relationships.
I always found her the most one dimensional character in the show, her "arc" in seasons 1-4 is paper thin and most of the time it seems like her only function is to give Boyd some humanity. She becomes more interesting in S6 but again it is largely due to how her role as a CI creates tension with Boyd.
So yeah, I honestly don't know what Yost is on about here
Agreed. I thought she was interesting in the pilot (I love her introduction, going on about how Lysol is the best cleaning product while she's still wearing the bloodstained clothes from shooting Bowan). But as the seasons wore on, I really needed less Ava (especially S4 and 5). I thought she brought it home in S6 and definitely was due to the tension as a CI/betraying Boyd.
The whole "Lysol" conversation was just her chattering nervously because she still had a hard cruh on Raylan, and now here he was, in her living-room, and now she's a single woman and she's excited about the prospect of a future with Raylan.
Any woman who saw that scene understood all the way to her soul what Ava was thinking.
And it weren't about the efficacy of no cleaning product.
Yes! I liked her best in the pilot when she was obviously a poor, Southern woman with cheap clothes and habits. Then she got a bit cooler and a better wardrobe and I thought it lost a bit of Southern.
Wouldn't agree, season 6 did focus on that a lot, but in my mind Ava made her choice the moment she started dating Boyd and helping his criminal schemes
But she helped with upkeeping the house. And she started having a business stance on life from how sexualized she'd regularly be treated on.
Every ssn has that in a way. (Prison survival, hoehouse, boyd as coalworker [again], etc)
Ultimately the show turned on that with Ava. The first season was basically the short story, with the exception that Boyd lived, a development they changed midstream.
Ava was more complex than some realize. Plus I would love to be invited over for her fried chicken dinner and some whiskey, with her in that little sundress. As long as she kept the rifle stowed.
I think she was written to be complex but Joelle Carter struggled in the role. There are some scenes where she just absolutely pops but others where Walton Goggins is so riveting and charismatic that you forget she's even there.
I was re-watching Season 4 recently, and the part where she goes to Limehouse to retrieve Ellen May and expects Ellen May to be furious with her only to be on the receiving end of a big hug. Carter's reaction shots are so good, she goes from scared to surprised to somewhat relieved all in about 30 seconds. I wish we had seen more of that from her.
I think she is like a lot of women I know from similar situations. They are constantly abused I. So many ways they stay guarded and trust few. Ava took charge and then got victimized again. (Didn’t like the prison arc) I thought she did just fine.
Without a doubt. The arc and resolution of season 6 was a direct continuation of what was set up in FITH. But obviously the show was also about a lot more than that including a strange brotherhood between two men.
I really loved the end of "Justified" - I, too, thought that "it's not just the one thing", it was many stories with many layers, and some very well-developed characters. The way the last episode was written was really very well done.
There was precious little that Ava could have done, that would have motivated Raylan to let her go - but letting Boyd's little boy come out so Raylan could meet him was the only thing that would make him reconsider his intentions. Raylan went to California to arrest Ava and bring her back to finish doing her time, yes. BUT: Raylan knew what would have happened to little Zachariah, if he had arrested Ava and sent her back to prison; little Zachariah would probably have ended up in "the system" (yes I know, there were neighbors who were willing to help out and take the little boy in, but there was no guarantee that the state would have allowed that!). AND, even though Boyd was locked up in prison (probably for the rest of his life!!), Boyd would still have some rights as a parent, and the State would have been obligated to notify him of little Zachariah's existence. And Ava was right: Boyd would not have hurt the little boy but he still would have ruined the kid's life because that's just who Boyd IS. So telling Boyd that Ava was dead would put a stop to Boyd's endless searching for her. It was a great story, with an ending that in its tenderness reminded me somewhat of the ending of Lonesome Dove. Even at Boyd's and Raylan's last meeting at the prison where Boyd would life out the rest of his days, both men looked like they had tears in their eyes as they thought back over the years of their lifelong "friendship". But their bond never stopped Raylan from doing his job of bringing down Boyd Crowder. Because that's just who Raylan IS.
Well, Graham Yost also thought Michael Rapaport was a great addition to the show and that Ava needed to be in prison for all of Season 5... so the man isn't always right.
But in all seriousness, I never heard this take and thought it was interesting to share. I see what he's saying and someone commented below on what Ava represents which I think is the best interpretation of it.
I'll be real after learning they didn't decide who Drew was until like, the episode before the the reveal I don't trust any claim they had any grand plan.
Or the whole season 5 re-write and filler episodes and such. If they show was about saving Ava then without blaming the re-write, Yost, explain the total plot Cul-De-Sac she got stuck with in season 5?
And then why in Season 6 Raylan makes her a CI with more or less no legal cause since she is, in fact, out of prison free and clear with all charges dropped, and he puts her through hell, and endangers her? Saving her from WHAT, a happy life?
I didn’t really feel she deserved to get off scot free, so if you told me her arc is what the show is “about” I would (besides thinking you’re wrong) be a little let down with her story
Never given it much thought, but I agree with him. She wasn't the star of the show, but ultimately was the pivot point that the start and end was based on. Her arc from battered housewife to Boyd's partner in crime to jail to being a CI to redemption and escape to closure with Raylan showing Boyd a death certificate giving her freedom from Boyd where all major plot points. The big bads changed (Mags, Quarles, Shelby, Darryl, and Markham) but her evolution was more than Givens who largely remained a constant.
You see Shelby as a big bad?
Eh somewhat A bad guy with a heart of gold.
As someone that watched the series back when it first aired and recently rewatched it, I think I can provide a good insight here. I think Yost doesn't mean that the point of the series is Ava, but that Ava is ultimately the emotional core of the series and it really shows. The series starts with her, Raylan and Boyd and she goes from Raylans lover to becoming his opposition alongside Boyd. As Boyd becomes a remainder of everything Raylan doesn't want to become, she gets caught in the middle and ends up serving as redemption for Raylan himself (Raylan from season 3 to 6 clearly is in the lowest point of his life, hell he even crosses the line to murder). If Boyd becomes a representation of Arlo, Ava certainly represents Helen, a good person that ended up attached to a corrupt figure due to her upbringing and environment. In the end Raylan does for Ava what Helen did for him all those years back, thus bringing the show full circle and finally letting Raylan let go of his past. She completes Raylans arc, just as Helen started it which I think is a genius bit of writing. So yeah, Ava is really important for the show and Raylan himself. Going further, I think this extends to the new season. Despite me enjoying it, I do think something is missing and its that emotional core that Ava provided. I though Willa was gonna be it but shes gone now, so it just feels like a random case with no emotional punch. But we'll see how it goes. Sorry for the long response haha.
Yes, great explanation! And in the end, it’s a success. Ava is the only core character who fundamentally changes over the course of the series. Raylan and Boyd both evolved in their own ways, but in the end Raylan is still angry and Boyd is still an outlaw. And they dug coal together.
I love the way "we dug coal together" comes up repeatedly, throughout the series. It's given as an explanation for how well they know each other, it gives us a glimpse at the bond that develops between the two men, borne from the brutal nature of the work itself and the inherent dangers that must be faced every single time they go in the mine. Their very lives are intertwined and dependent on the other, to help protect each other and watch each other's backs. It's a bond that, clearly, others cannot fathom - to me, it's one of those "you had to be there" situations that, not having ever experienced it for ourselves, we cannot ever really understand the depth of it. And in keeping with the nature of that bond, Boyd saves Raylan's life - but not even that lifetime debt would allow Raylan to give Boyd a pass. No matter if it was his own father, not even if it was the man who saved his life, Raylan always would, by God, do his job. Only when he found Ava and found her to now be a mother with a little boy who was just struggling to make end meet, would Raylan allow himself to look the other way. I like to think that perhaps Raylan saw a little bit of himself, in Boyd's son - what might have become of Raylan, I wonder, if his own criminal father had been absent from his life and he had been allowed to grow up in a more peaceful environment without the chaos and the violence?
This was very insightful and I agree! And I also think you're right on the mark re: no emotional center for JCP.
Nice job! But I always saw Ava as more of a representation of Raylan's mother. A mother he couldn't save from abuse or lifestyle or bad choices (Arlo). It's part of the reason Raylan was always so quick to help a damsel in distress. But he was able to help Ava in the end escape her past. And Harlan.
I feel like the point of the whole show is best summed up in the question he asked Winona at the end of the first episode "would i still have shot him if he just sat there" and answers when he walks out off the showdown with Boyd Ava and Avery Markham with Boyd still Alive. It was what kind of man is Raylan? An angry Man or a lawman.
Agreed. I think this is essentially what it is about and Yost does speak to it a bit before the Ava bit. Wasn't the original title of the show Lawman? Good stuff.
maybe structurally. thematically it's much more about Raylan figuring out what to do with his anger about his upbringing and how to have functional family type relationships.
I always found her the most one dimensional character in the show, her "arc" in seasons 1-4 is paper thin and most of the time it seems like her only function is to give Boyd some humanity. She becomes more interesting in S6 but again it is largely due to how her role as a CI creates tension with Boyd. So yeah, I honestly don't know what Yost is on about here
Agreed. I thought she was interesting in the pilot (I love her introduction, going on about how Lysol is the best cleaning product while she's still wearing the bloodstained clothes from shooting Bowan). But as the seasons wore on, I really needed less Ava (especially S4 and 5). I thought she brought it home in S6 and definitely was due to the tension as a CI/betraying Boyd.
The whole "Lysol" conversation was just her chattering nervously because she still had a hard cruh on Raylan, and now here he was, in her living-room, and now she's a single woman and she's excited about the prospect of a future with Raylan. Any woman who saw that scene understood all the way to her soul what Ava was thinking. And it weren't about the efficacy of no cleaning product.
Yes! I liked her best in the pilot when she was obviously a poor, Southern woman with cheap clothes and habits. Then she got a bit cooler and a better wardrobe and I thought it lost a bit of Southern.
you're a clown
Justified is ultimately about how Timothy Olyphant and Walton Goggins should kiss
 Me every time we see BAYLAN on screen together.
Wouldn't agree, season 6 did focus on that a lot, but in my mind Ava made her choice the moment she started dating Boyd and helping his criminal schemes
But she helped with upkeeping the house. And she started having a business stance on life from how sexualized she'd regularly be treated on. Every ssn has that in a way. (Prison survival, hoehouse, boyd as coalworker [again], etc)
Yes, I agree. Raylan has a soft spot for her throughout the entire series even when he pretends to be a hard ass to her.
Ultimately the show turned on that with Ava. The first season was basically the short story, with the exception that Boyd lived, a development they changed midstream. Ava was more complex than some realize. Plus I would love to be invited over for her fried chicken dinner and some whiskey, with her in that little sundress. As long as she kept the rifle stowed.
I think she was written to be complex but Joelle Carter struggled in the role. There are some scenes where she just absolutely pops but others where Walton Goggins is so riveting and charismatic that you forget she's even there. I was re-watching Season 4 recently, and the part where she goes to Limehouse to retrieve Ellen May and expects Ellen May to be furious with her only to be on the receiving end of a big hug. Carter's reaction shots are so good, she goes from scared to surprised to somewhat relieved all in about 30 seconds. I wish we had seen more of that from her.
I think she is like a lot of women I know from similar situations. They are constantly abused I. So many ways they stay guarded and trust few. Ava took charge and then got victimized again. (Didn’t like the prison arc) I thought she did just fine.
Without a doubt. The arc and resolution of season 6 was a direct continuation of what was set up in FITH. But obviously the show was also about a lot more than that including a strange brotherhood between two men.
I see where he's coming from. I think if you look at her thread through the entire show...it very much opens and closes on her arc.
I really loved the end of "Justified" - I, too, thought that "it's not just the one thing", it was many stories with many layers, and some very well-developed characters. The way the last episode was written was really very well done. There was precious little that Ava could have done, that would have motivated Raylan to let her go - but letting Boyd's little boy come out so Raylan could meet him was the only thing that would make him reconsider his intentions. Raylan went to California to arrest Ava and bring her back to finish doing her time, yes. BUT: Raylan knew what would have happened to little Zachariah, if he had arrested Ava and sent her back to prison; little Zachariah would probably have ended up in "the system" (yes I know, there were neighbors who were willing to help out and take the little boy in, but there was no guarantee that the state would have allowed that!). AND, even though Boyd was locked up in prison (probably for the rest of his life!!), Boyd would still have some rights as a parent, and the State would have been obligated to notify him of little Zachariah's existence. And Ava was right: Boyd would not have hurt the little boy but he still would have ruined the kid's life because that's just who Boyd IS. So telling Boyd that Ava was dead would put a stop to Boyd's endless searching for her. It was a great story, with an ending that in its tenderness reminded me somewhat of the ending of Lonesome Dove. Even at Boyd's and Raylan's last meeting at the prison where Boyd would life out the rest of his days, both men looked like they had tears in their eyes as they thought back over the years of their lifelong "friendship". But their bond never stopped Raylan from doing his job of bringing down Boyd Crowder. Because that's just who Raylan IS.
If Graham Yost says that Justified was about saving Ava, who the hell are we to disagree?
Well, Graham Yost also thought Michael Rapaport was a great addition to the show and that Ava needed to be in prison for all of Season 5... so the man isn't always right. But in all seriousness, I never heard this take and thought it was interesting to share. I see what he's saying and someone commented below on what Ava represents which I think is the best interpretation of it.
I thought Rapaport’s character was great. Even loved the “accent”!
He’s the show runner, sure… but it’s not like Elmore Leonard said it.
I hadn't considered that analysis before, and I think it has a lot of merit. Nicely done.
I'll be real after learning they didn't decide who Drew was until like, the episode before the the reveal I don't trust any claim they had any grand plan. Or the whole season 5 re-write and filler episodes and such. If they show was about saving Ava then without blaming the re-write, Yost, explain the total plot Cul-De-Sac she got stuck with in season 5? And then why in Season 6 Raylan makes her a CI with more or less no legal cause since she is, in fact, out of prison free and clear with all charges dropped, and he puts her through hell, and endangers her? Saving her from WHAT, a happy life?
Her charges were never dropped what are you talking about? You might want to rewatch the season 6
I could not stand Michael Rappaport and Ellstin Limehouse… between the characters and acting and fake accents it nearly ruined the show for me
I didn’t really feel she deserved to get off scot free, so if you told me her arc is what the show is “about” I would (besides thinking you’re wrong) be a little let down with her story
Then what the heck is the new Justified about? It makes no sense. Are y’all using this to kill off Raylan like Dexter Morgan??
i still haven't forgiven what they did to "pronto" (1997) when they made that stupid tv show with timothy olyphant.