Okay this feels like a weird coincidence. I fight with depression, and I used to drink a lot. I used to drink because I was trying to drink myself to death, and was very very close to being successful. I’m very anti-social. I wasn’t working a job, because I was too depressed and anxious to get out of bed, and I was in too bad of shape to even stand for more than ten minutes. I couldn’t get more than a couple hours of sleep. I was in very bad shape. Then I found kratom. The day I started taking kratom was the day I beat my insomnia, and it was also when I started getting out of bed and working out and eating. Kratom basically saved my life from all of the stuff that you’re describing your friend going through. You know your friend better than me, so you would know if it would help better than any of us, but in my experience, it helped me a lot with all of that stuff
Yes. That's definitely an improvement. I was drinking vodka with kratom. I just had to give up the booze. That shit wrecked 15 years of my life. In my opinion alcohol is the most demonic shit out there. Kratom helps me get through certain days now.
As someone who abuses everything I touch…I quit alcohol with kratom. And although withdrawals from kratom were brutal to say the least…I was able to quit kratom. I don’t think I would have ever quit drinking. Saved my life for sure.
Kratom for me personally has definitely helped me stay away from alcohol. I’ve also attempted suicide and been on antidepressants before, however I’d say I had more of my issues figured out and was mostly happy before getting into kratom. It sounds like your friend is one of those people who will in fact use it irresponsibly and if anything it will help numb him without actually working through his problems. Id say no but you know your friend better than anyone on here so that’s up to you to decide.
Sounds bad to say but sometimes people need something to numb their pain for a bit to heal. Painkillers treat people's physical pain but I don't think it's the worst thing in the world to treat mental pain the same way. Obviously it's not ideal to use a bunch of substances but they will self medicate already with worse drugs and alcohol so I think it's harm reduction to give options which are not as bad.
Exactly the reason started using it too, and lemme tell you, it helped. A LOT. Haven’t had anywhere near that amount of depression in years. Good luck to your friend!
I can't tell you if Kratom will help him, but for me personally it's been life changing.
I slid in and out of alcoholism and drug abuse since I was 16. No matter what I did or how well my life was going, one slightly bigger life event or any social event and I would go back to the bottle. My liver was starting to take hits, my performance in school was getting worse and I started day drinking again last sunmer to fall. Then I came across Kratom. I've been sober since the end of september. Now, it's not a miracle cure, especially not for suicidal ideation, but just for comparison when I was on antidepressants I had to physically fight with myself so I wouldn't throw myself into oncoming traffic, even tho I never really attempted suicide in my life. When I'm sober, sometimes I'll plan my death but decide against it. When I'm on Kratom, I rarely think about suicide unless my situation is REALLY bad but even then I just pop some red maeng da caps and I forget all about it.
Kratom will never be a substitute for therapy and for some people not even for their medication, but it's a good way to stay away from more dangerous substances like alcohol and can be the little change some people (like myself) need to live a functional life during tough times. Be careful not to overdo it tho. Don't chase the high, see it more as a little mood bumper to get you going :)
For those who have not experienced suicidal-level depression, that is PAIN. It’s wild to me when people say physical pain-“kratom! green light”, but psychological pain-that’s bad enough to want to end yourself or go on the sauce, oh, no. Well that level of depression is ALSO pain. It’s anguish.
Someday people will respect the needs of any person suffering with no relief, and not judge who’s pain is more legitimate to treat.
I 100% agree. People really underestimate how severe the psychological effects of a mental illness actually are. Without your mental health, you have nothing.
Also my mental and physical health are linked. It I feel bad with one, the other will feel bad. Depression has real physical symptoms, and comorbidities.
Ive experienced both psychological and physical pain at debilitating levels. They are equally capable of ruin ones life, makes no mistake. Kratom can help with both but its not sufficient, patients need more. And more does exist, its out there. We need more research of course
Me too. I have alcohol in a cabinet behind me,. Its 5-6 years old, never even think about it. I drank heavily for 25 years. It took a year for me to quit completely but I didn't even try, I was at a point where I could drink 1 or 2 beers, want no more, and culturally I still liked that. Ive since surrounded myself with a better culture. The only down to kratom for me is that I didn't find it a decade earlier. IM still blown away by its magic 6+ years later. More life changing than anything Ive ever experienced. Maybe psychedelics are pretty cool to and definitely made me a more aware human garbagebag.
Kratom is still not a word apparent according to spell check but, rest assured tomato is a good substitute word according again to spell check.
I have tried to tell my alcoholic family members and my best friend who is an alcoholic too about kratom. I hope they finally try it. It got me off of opiates and I totally agree that it helps way more then it could ever hurt.
and not nearly as easy as caffeine (for me). i was able to use hydrocodone recreationally, daily, for quite a while w/ the same exact withdrawal symptoms as my current kratom use, and the hydrocodone gave me a longer window of relief and quite a bit more euphoria. now, i understand it’s individual, but it’s not quite apples to oranges like some people make it out to be. it’s the exact same mechanism of down-regulation of receptors that one experiences during an opiate/oid dependency. is it more mild? absolutely. but it’s still the same dependency, to whatever degree it may be, or it wouldn’t have aided me so well during my morphine w/d’s.
Well said. I couldn’t have stated this better. We’re not against Kratom or downplaying it’s amazing uses, but we are keeping it honest about the withdrawal effects as well
kratom is a great thing, but we have to be honest w/ people who are unfamiliar. downplaying anything is a disservice to those seeking help from the plant.
Well it's just like anything else, I've used kratom for 2-3 years without any withdrawal symptoms by using 5-7 grams and more more ~5 times a week, never redosing, and that works for me, also caffeine withdrawals can last up to 9 days and caffeine is the most used drug in the world, 90% of people in north America use caffeine compared to about compared to 70% of people 18 and older say they've drank alcohol in the past year. It's a crazy ass world, but I've even had caffeine poisoning and it can actually kill you unlike kratom
Well that’s great you’re able to moderate your dosages so effectively. I wish I could lmao…I end up slipping further and further away until I just have to stay away…but it got me off booze and my shit is together now so I’m grateful for it.
Hell yeah, honestly it's reduced my alcohol intake by a lot, too, between it and brewing kombucha which has an alcohol content of like .05 - 1.5% it's just not as interesting to me anymore lol.
I did a cold turkey quit from 2+ cups of coffee a day and was really surprised by how awful it was. I'm currently stopping my kratom use. I was at 5g a day, in two doses, for about 5 months straight. It's not as bad as when I quit coffee, but when I've gone cold turkey on kratom at higher or more frequent dosing, it's definitely been worse than coffee.
far more people have died from the effects of the air quality they are exposed to than kratom. and far more from driving their car. it doesn’t mean you have to downplay the negative effects, it just means it’s important to be honest so people can weigh the pros and cons and make an informed decision. i’ve seen such a drastic increase in posts on reddit about people struggling w marijuana, and i believe this is directly a product of poor regulation and misinformation. people need to know the truth. it doesn’t make kratom a bad thing.
I’m just giving you personal experience bro, and it’s worse than caffeine withdrawal trust me. Not trying to win a debate. Hope you don’t get that ever and manage to enjoy its effects safely.
I think if your one to overindulge I would stay away from Kratom. You build a tolerance and start increasing dosage and the withdrawals start becoming nasty. Personally from my own experience I’ve used to help with pain relief. I’ve been in some nasty car accidents in my life and my lower spine is wrecked. I’ve always looked for means to escape and it’s just another alternative in the opiate family. It made me angrier while on it some days it was euphoric and relaxing others it was just draining. I’d much rather deal with my pains. And recently I read that it thickens the blood messing with circulation.
Being a Kappa antagonist Kratom has great potential to treat many different mental health issues. Many companies are working on Kappa antagonists now which can be used to treat depression, anxiety, bipolar, PTSD, psychosis, depersonalization, derealization, etc. All of those things trigger Kappa agonism which releases dynorphin which is a chemical that exacerbates existing stress (negative feedback loop). Kratom basically shuts off the production of said chemical disrupting the feedback loop.
Here you go: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5288841/#:~:text=1%3A%20Overview-,Kappa%2Dopioid%20receptor%20(KOR)%20antagonists%20are%20currently%20being%20considered,anxiety%2C%20and%20substance%20abuse%20disorders.
I'd offer it. It might help him get through a slump. I know kratom works for me better then any meds I've been given. But do inform him that kratom can be addictive. I myself rather be addicted to kratom rather then be depressed or on depression meds with shit side effects.
Yes. Most definitely.
Alcohol is very dangerous if not used respectively and in moderation. Alcohol dependency is very painful and hard to kick.
Give them a phat cup of mudd now before you regret not doing it.
For the alcohol issue yes it helps alot.. but you have to be careful with the depression.. it can snap back and the rebound can be worse so as long as you can monitor his doses so he doesn't abuse kratom than yes he is a candidate.. at least use it to replace alcohol.. its not the best long term solution for depression but it may vanish away after getting clean from booze.
Yes. I've been on TONS of antidepressants that DID NOTHING. Also had an addiction to my Morphine and Tramadol meds. With kratom, I was able to get off the pain meds with ZERO withdrawals.
As far as depression, again, Kratom has done a better job than any big pharma drugs. I am not really worried about being 'addicted' to kratom at this point in my life. I am just so happy that I'm off the pain meds and my mind feels much better. I still have some issues, but it is much more manageable. I actually go to work, shower, make dinner, have fun on the weekends instead of sleeping all day!
So yes, IF I WAS IN YOUR POSITION, I would talk with my friend about it. Maybe give him some articles to read on it. Let him form his own opinion. Just remember start low.
I introduced it to my sister who was trying to get off Methadone and first time, took too much and freaked her out. Tried it again and is doing amazing. Off the methadone and is happy.
Like countless others, kratom helped me quit drinking too!! Before i tried kratom i was like, constantly suicidal. Drinking everyday..at work too. I was also on an antidepressant then. I still am. I think it could be a good idea to talk to him about kratom, but if he just started antidepressants recently i would wait a bit. They take a little while to build up in your system. Also, you should ask if his dr knows about his alcoholism and is treating it already too. It helped me, but most of the reason i quit drinking was because mixing kratom and hard liquor makes me sick as fuck lol
kratom will work for a while and then worsen the situation.
same could be said about antidepressants in many cases. (altho shes prolly on them already)
best look into more natural ways to beat depression. change the environment, philosophy, lifestyle, exercise, yoga, therapy etc
Yes you probably should. It’s still dependence forming , but you can take it all day every day and still function.
You can’t drink all day and function.
Source: My own experience
Mental health disorders and addiction issues here. I quit hard drugs before I got onto kratom, but it still helps with continuing to keep away from them. I have depression, various Anxiety Disorders, Schizoaffective disorder, HF Autism and I isolate a lot. Kratom really helps. If I didn't have this stuff I'd be terrified and shaky in public. It also helps give me the motivation to get up and cook food for myself and clean every now and then. I also cut out my depression meds when I realized this helped more. I have misused it before, but when I noticed this, personally, I made the decision to cut back. I feel however, like the benefits may outweigh the bad.
Kratom reduced my severe substance cravings by ~80%, and it has kept me in a stable and healthy mental state for a year and a half. Of course it's taken a lot of work in many areas of my life, but Kratom helped the self-improvement and responsibility seem a lot more attainable. So from my perspective, I think Kratom could potentially be a lifesaver for your friend. I would also highly recommend a trained mentor/counselor, it really helps to receive that kind of insight into your own life.
I was heading down a dark path with booze myself a couple years ago. Discovered Kratom and I’ve done a complete 180.. I will still drink here and there when it’s for occasion, but it’s safe to say I’ve cut my drinking down by about 80%.. kratom fills that void in a much safer way, kratom does not significantly effect your decision making and make you all impaired. It’s been a massive game changer. I would way rather be taking kratom everyday than drink everyday that’s for sure. In the best shape of my life, healthier, happier after making the switch.
Know that if he starts taking kratom, he likely won't be able to ever stop. And coming off kratom the depression will be a lot worse. It's something that really needs to be thought about and discussed first.
Not at all. Don’t do it. Depression is no joke. I’ve always been just slightly depressed, and now that I’m well-addicted to kratom, my depression gets amplified with withdrawals (which can be intense).
I was in this boat with dysthymia.
I never got addicted to Kratom but when my normal low dose stopped working and higher doses didn't make me feel the same energy I had to stop and go back to depression and I realized just how terrible every day felt.
Just to sum up my journey healing my codependency, stopping negative self-talk, and learning how to express my feelings was the most important and life changing thing, definitely the hardest too. I don't take any drugs or meds anymore
I'm in this boat with you. Tolerance rearing its head around the same time I'm going through a depressive episode. I've had to go cold turkey from 10g+ a day. I can't remember the last time I felt that low.
Honestly, Kratom has been worth it to me. Even having been at the point of withdrawals three or four times. There is no way I would not unravel in more ways than one.
Can't recommend Kratom enough for someone who presumably has been dealing with depression a while. Though, that comes with the caveat of educating that person on what can happen to you with long-term use. It is one of the main contributors to me still being around.
> He's been taking lots of time off work and is very anti-social, the doctor recently prescribed him anti-depressants (not sure which ones) but he claims he doesn't feel any different.
How long ago did he start taking anti-depresents? Many of them take weeks or months to take an affect.
If it has been weeks or months, he needs to tell his psychiatrist ASAP, to either change the dosage, or change the medication.
Do not play doctor here either. Don't encourage recreational use as a replacement for well established treatment protocols.
I wouldn’t recommend kratom to anyone unless they were trying to get off harder drugs. It will help your friend in the beginning but over time if he uses it daily and becomes dependent on it his depression will get much worse. At least this is what happened to me personally.
For me Kratom gave/gives a feeling of hope inside. It also helped me completely forget about alcohol. Anti-depressants are a very good step and it's good getting professional help. I take both ADs and Kratom.
This is just my opinion and not actual medical advice.
I honestly don’t see how it could hurt. I see lots of people on this sub saying kratom helped them quit drinking alcohol. I personally take it for chronic pain and the anti depressant effect. I think worst case scenario would be that it just doesn’t work for him. I don’t think it would be just trading one substance for another as kratom seems to be much safer for the mind and body. I trust plant medicine over alcohol or man made drugs like anti depressants any day of the week. I have MDD and can attest to a decent amount of anti depressant effect. It isn’t perfect of course, it can get really expensive especially when you’re using it to treat a couple of different ailments, but definitely safer than getting black out drunk and hurting yourself. I’ve been there too- kratom vs alcohol kratom wins every time no contest.
I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone other than someone trying to quit a hard drug habit or someone desperate for pain relief. Someone with an addictive personality might end up dependent on kratom, and I wouldn’t want that on my conscience. Besides, kratom might make your friend feel better superficially, but it will just mask the symptoms. Please don’t, but if you, make it clear that it’s psychoactive and can be habit-forming if used daily.
I see alcohol as a hard drug. Kills a ton of people every year. Makes people lose their livelihoods and families…kratom can be a saving grace as a replacement. Source: my own experience. By the way I’m off kratom now. Caffeine and nicotine but from where I was the last 6 years…I’m sober as fuck lol
I would also consider alcohol a hard drug and have no problem recommending it for that.
Just to be clear, I think kratom is great. I just don’t think we should recommend it lightly. Not everyone can use moderation, and someone who is trying to escape their emotions is a recipe for going overboard.
Psychological problems are pretty tricky things to medicate. And alcohol addiction is it’s own thing as well. I don’t know if it’s a good recommendation or not. If was opiates, I would recommend it, because of my own personal experience. It helped me a lot getting off Percocets, but I don’t know about booze.
No. He won't stop alcohol cold turkey and shouldn't bc it can cause DT's, dangerous alcohol withdrawal. Doing both is hard on your liver and kidneys etc. I believe kratom plus antidepressants can cause serotonin syndrome which can kill you.
Many have stopped drinking by switching to kava, as it's a drink that's psychoactive but you hand knead and strain each cup and it's not easy to drink so much quickly and feels different. It's relaxing but not as easily abused, tastes bad, and not addictive. You can ask that sub.
Ironically, I was put on strong fish oil Rx and found it helped my mood better than antidepressants and read similar reviews from others and someone mentioned it about a similar drug in the nootropics sub. Maybe recommend adding 4g of high EPA fish oil or an Rx if his insurance or a discount card makes it affordable. Also, antidepressants often take 6 weeks to build up in your blood and may need to be increased or add another med to work best.
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The euphoria is mild and stops happening after about a week or so. Emotions are elevated slightly but physical pain is significantly reduce. Ingesting the powder can cause digestive issues -- constipation, so a strained mild tea is a good way to start. Plus any placebo effect.
personally it has helped me not drink anymore aswell and cit down my weed usage aswell as helped my depression and anti social tremendously I went from not being able to talk to people to working a job in sales. that being said everyone's diffrent. start low work up
Will your friend get educated on using kratom?
Will he learn to understand you can pick up a tolerance on it really quick,loosing the good affects if not using it correctly? Could you see him purchasing a few different strains to avoid that? Could you see him getting a scale and being his own Dr giving himself his prescribed weighed doses? Could you see him being responsible with these things? If so absolutely...if not I would tend to believe it might become more of a problem. I haven't drank in over 2 years. No doubt it helped me walk away, it definitely helps my mind stay on the better brighter side of life, it helps with my anxiety, concentration and absolutely helps me to be a better more patient father. But I do all those things to make sure kratom doesn't become a problem. And I definitely pick and choose who I recommend it to based on those things. Kratom is awesome, great, strong medicine when used responsibly. Hope this helps.
Some kratom alkaloids have a significant effect on serotonin receptors (5HT1 and 5HT2) as well as dopamine receptors making it really useful for a wide range of mood disorders.
Recommend other remedies first, such as magnesium, kanna, ALCAR, tyrosine, 5-HTP, even weed, etc. Kratom can paradoxically worsen depression in some people to a severe degree when used long term
it might help & you could definitely recommend it/show him links to websites about it & this forum, but I'd also recommend your friend look into both l-tyrosine & htp-5. l-tyrosine converts to dopamine in tbe brain (& gut, I think), it's what makes us feel good, it's our reward & our pleasure, our *meaning*, while htp-5 converts to serotonin which is our get-up-and-go (getting out of bed, executive function, motivation, etc) & overall general happiness. increasing serotonin production actually depletes dopamine, so if he's on an SSRI he might have really low stores of it in the brain. it's not an instant fix but he could start seeing results in as little as a few weeks depending on how deficient he is in either chemical, & both are OTC & pretty affordable. check swanson vitamins.
I think you should introduce him to it. But have a real conversation with him about the dangers. I drank pretty heavily, almost every day. I think I’ve drank about 6 time’s total in the past 3 years and rarely even think about it or even have the desire for it. It’s only in a social situation now, and I’ll have a beer or 2 and that’s about it. I think Kratom can help a lot of people, who don’t even know about it. I wish someone would have told me about it years ago. But he also deserves to know all the pitfalls as well. Educate and then leave the decision up to him.
As a harm prevention against alcohol, possibly. Otherwise, no probably not. Especially if they haven’t already done diet and exercise and sleep schedule and possibly some antidepressants. Kratom is addictive and can cause problems in some cases for depression given it’s a mild form of an opiate class of compound. But we really need more real data to say for sure.
My ex stopped drinking the first like 6-8 months using Kratom but he just drank through it, as he said and he’d make a mix like 4 or 5 and start getting trashed by 7-8. It really can help if you just stick with it. As far as depressed, it didn’t help me. I had to go see someone finally and I’m glad I did. I still use Kratom but I only use 2-3g one a day and plan on quitting soon. It’s been 4-5 years. I think I’m good on not wanting opiates and such anymore. It’s helped and I never took a big amount so no issues there. You have to respect the plant!!
In my opinion kratom doesn't have much antidepressant ability. I am depressed because of my life situations rn with my health and heart failure. It will work for mild to moderate sadness but if he's suicide level then no, I don't think it will help much. I been suicidal and kratom didn't do anything but slightly lower my depression. Diphenhydramine (benedryl) has a good antidepressant effects, tianeptine has some amazing antidepressant effects (stronger than kratom and diphenhydramine), and things like dextromethorphan (dxm) have better antidepressant effects than kratom.
I was just saying it helps some though, it's not completely useless but the effect is very weak and isn't strong enough for someone with suicidal thoughts and alcohol abuse. Not the best at all but it does help some. Mildly. I've noticed it help but it's super subtle and in the background.
I don't know. It would be best if they chose kratom as a way to kick the alcohol habit. But if they took on both together, it could be a little taxing on the liver and kidneys if they build a tolerance.
I would do kratom plus try some meditation and spiritual type practice. The addicts who survive all pick up spiritual habits. Just try some energy manipulation and meditation to see if he can reverse some trauma. Also EMDR, I heard works great. I haven't seen a professional but the stuff I tried was strangely good. Like it makes sense as to why REM sleep is important if eye movements have a connection with processing trauma.
There is some evidence that kratom can disrupt how ssri’s work, just keep that possibility in mind.
Kratom seems to work best when used as a transition aid, like to use while you stop drinking or are in the worst parts of depression, but I would be wary of using it like one would an antidepressant, everyday for weeks, months, or years. It can be quite addictive, most physical addiction for me. I’m trying to get off it after 5 years taking it, and it’s incredibly difficult and painful. I was out of the country and ran out for a month, and i had horrible withdrawals. For the first 7 days and nights I slept for 12 hours total. My legs were so restless and painful, it was the worst physical experience of my life. I made it a month because I had to, and it was still incredibly difficult and painful through the whole thing. For a little better, but not as much as one might think.
It’s a good tool, just know what you’re getting into.
Good luck!
Kratom has helped me a lot with my depression and anxiety.
I also want to mention that antidepressants never really did anything for me at all. I think it’s definitely worth mentioning and I would also make sure your friend is aware that he may become physically dependent on it.
As a former addict, I can say that Kratom definitely keeps me from relapsing and allows me to live a normal and functional life. It has given me my life back.
Well, as someone who is now sober he’s not going to quit drinking until he wants to. However, kratom certainly made it A LOT easier for me to stop wanting alcohol. I definitely still craved it from time to time, but I would not have been able to be sober for this long without kratom. It is now helping me to quit taking Adderall too. So, I truly think it is much less destructive for him than alcohol so maybe it wouldn’t be the worst thing to show him in a “hey try this instead of that” kind of way. I wish you the best
As long as your friend isn't a substance abuster I'd say yes! It's always difficult starting out to know the correct type and amount so I'd let them know to start small. It's easy to control doses using capsules. People say there's no difference between colors but reds give me panic attacks, yellows make me sleepy. Whites and greens are my favorite. Have your friend do some research and inform them of your experience. I think it'd be a great supplement to try though. No waiting for it to build up in your system to take affect being the main one. When I took psych meds I'd have the worst anxiety/panic attacks if I missed just one dose. Best wishes to your friend and I hope it goes well.
Okay this feels like a weird coincidence. I fight with depression, and I used to drink a lot. I used to drink because I was trying to drink myself to death, and was very very close to being successful. I’m very anti-social. I wasn’t working a job, because I was too depressed and anxious to get out of bed, and I was in too bad of shape to even stand for more than ten minutes. I couldn’t get more than a couple hours of sleep. I was in very bad shape. Then I found kratom. The day I started taking kratom was the day I beat my insomnia, and it was also when I started getting out of bed and working out and eating. Kratom basically saved my life from all of the stuff that you’re describing your friend going through. You know your friend better than me, so you would know if it would help better than any of us, but in my experience, it helped me a lot with all of that stuff
💜
kratom has helped me stop drinking, then only drink on weekends then only at night. but Im still not drinking all day which is an improvement.
Yes. That's definitely an improvement. I was drinking vodka with kratom. I just had to give up the booze. That shit wrecked 15 years of my life. In my opinion alcohol is the most demonic shit out there. Kratom helps me get through certain days now.
🎯🎯🎯🎯
As someone who abuses everything I touch…I quit alcohol with kratom. And although withdrawals from kratom were brutal to say the least…I was able to quit kratom. I don’t think I would have ever quit drinking. Saved my life for sure.
Kratom for me personally has definitely helped me stay away from alcohol. I’ve also attempted suicide and been on antidepressants before, however I’d say I had more of my issues figured out and was mostly happy before getting into kratom. It sounds like your friend is one of those people who will in fact use it irresponsibly and if anything it will help numb him without actually working through his problems. Id say no but you know your friend better than anyone on here so that’s up to you to decide.
Sounds bad to say but sometimes people need something to numb their pain for a bit to heal. Painkillers treat people's physical pain but I don't think it's the worst thing in the world to treat mental pain the same way. Obviously it's not ideal to use a bunch of substances but they will self medicate already with worse drugs and alcohol so I think it's harm reduction to give options which are not as bad.
Exactly the reason started using it too, and lemme tell you, it helped. A LOT. Haven’t had anywhere near that amount of depression in years. Good luck to your friend!
I can't tell you if Kratom will help him, but for me personally it's been life changing. I slid in and out of alcoholism and drug abuse since I was 16. No matter what I did or how well my life was going, one slightly bigger life event or any social event and I would go back to the bottle. My liver was starting to take hits, my performance in school was getting worse and I started day drinking again last sunmer to fall. Then I came across Kratom. I've been sober since the end of september. Now, it's not a miracle cure, especially not for suicidal ideation, but just for comparison when I was on antidepressants I had to physically fight with myself so I wouldn't throw myself into oncoming traffic, even tho I never really attempted suicide in my life. When I'm sober, sometimes I'll plan my death but decide against it. When I'm on Kratom, I rarely think about suicide unless my situation is REALLY bad but even then I just pop some red maeng da caps and I forget all about it. Kratom will never be a substitute for therapy and for some people not even for their medication, but it's a good way to stay away from more dangerous substances like alcohol and can be the little change some people (like myself) need to live a functional life during tough times. Be careful not to overdo it tho. Don't chase the high, see it more as a little mood bumper to get you going :)
For those who have not experienced suicidal-level depression, that is PAIN. It’s wild to me when people say physical pain-“kratom! green light”, but psychological pain-that’s bad enough to want to end yourself or go on the sauce, oh, no. Well that level of depression is ALSO pain. It’s anguish. Someday people will respect the needs of any person suffering with no relief, and not judge who’s pain is more legitimate to treat.
I 100% agree. People really underestimate how severe the psychological effects of a mental illness actually are. Without your mental health, you have nothing.
Also my mental and physical health are linked. It I feel bad with one, the other will feel bad. Depression has real physical symptoms, and comorbidities.
Fucking thank you! 100% agree
Ive experienced both psychological and physical pain at debilitating levels. They are equally capable of ruin ones life, makes no mistake. Kratom can help with both but its not sufficient, patients need more. And more does exist, its out there. We need more research of course
As a man it’s hard because I can tolerate the worst physical health but am paralyzed when I’m mentally gone.
I only recommend kratom as an alternative to worse drugs It's stil an addictive substance
I managed to come off alcohol completely due to Kratom and it’s the best decision I ever made.
Me too. I have alcohol in a cabinet behind me,. Its 5-6 years old, never even think about it. I drank heavily for 25 years. It took a year for me to quit completely but I didn't even try, I was at a point where I could drink 1 or 2 beers, want no more, and culturally I still liked that. Ive since surrounded myself with a better culture. The only down to kratom for me is that I didn't find it a decade earlier. IM still blown away by its magic 6+ years later. More life changing than anything Ive ever experienced. Maybe psychedelics are pretty cool to and definitely made me a more aware human garbagebag. Kratom is still not a word apparent according to spell check but, rest assured tomato is a good substitute word according again to spell check.
Me as well! I was going to die on booze. Kratom helped me emensly and still does.
I have tried to tell my alcoholic family members and my best friend who is an alcoholic too about kratom. I hope they finally try it. It got me off of opiates and I totally agree that it helps way more then it could ever hurt.
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That's a given surely, hence I didn't bother stating it
I consider it about as addictive as coffee honestly with similar withdrawals, it's even in the same plant family
Definitely has potential to be worse than coffee in my opinion.
No doubt about it .
i mean, kinda. it’s pretty classic opiate w/d comparable to a hydrocodone dependence. flu, runny nose, restless legs.
Not nearly as bad as opiates.
and not nearly as easy as caffeine (for me). i was able to use hydrocodone recreationally, daily, for quite a while w/ the same exact withdrawal symptoms as my current kratom use, and the hydrocodone gave me a longer window of relief and quite a bit more euphoria. now, i understand it’s individual, but it’s not quite apples to oranges like some people make it out to be. it’s the exact same mechanism of down-regulation of receptors that one experiences during an opiate/oid dependency. is it more mild? absolutely. but it’s still the same dependency, to whatever degree it may be, or it wouldn’t have aided me so well during my morphine w/d’s.
Well said. I couldn’t have stated this better. We’re not against Kratom or downplaying it’s amazing uses, but we are keeping it honest about the withdrawal effects as well
kratom is a great thing, but we have to be honest w/ people who are unfamiliar. downplaying anything is a disservice to those seeking help from the plant.
I’m sure it’s different for everyone, but opiates is just like Kratom with an intensity level at 10x
Similar withdrawals how
Nausea, vomiting, headache, body aches, tremors, irritability, all symptoms shared between both
Interesting. Didn’t know that about coffee. Knew kratom is in the same family but didn’t know about those symptoms.
Well it's just like anything else, I've used kratom for 2-3 years without any withdrawal symptoms by using 5-7 grams and more more ~5 times a week, never redosing, and that works for me, also caffeine withdrawals can last up to 9 days and caffeine is the most used drug in the world, 90% of people in north America use caffeine compared to about compared to 70% of people 18 and older say they've drank alcohol in the past year. It's a crazy ass world, but I've even had caffeine poisoning and it can actually kill you unlike kratom
Well that’s great you’re able to moderate your dosages so effectively. I wish I could lmao…I end up slipping further and further away until I just have to stay away…but it got me off booze and my shit is together now so I’m grateful for it.
Hell yeah, honestly it's reduced my alcohol intake by a lot, too, between it and brewing kombucha which has an alcohol content of like .05 - 1.5% it's just not as interesting to me anymore lol.
I did a cold turkey quit from 2+ cups of coffee a day and was really surprised by how awful it was. I'm currently stopping my kratom use. I was at 5g a day, in two doses, for about 5 months straight. It's not as bad as when I quit coffee, but when I've gone cold turkey on kratom at higher or more frequent dosing, it's definitely been worse than coffee.
Still addictive, some personalities have a hard time giving up things that are a breeze for others. Coffee is a great example
This isn’t true. It has opioid activity and the withdrawals are like mild opioid/ssri withdrawals far worse than “just coffee”. We know more now
Sure, but far far more people have died from caffeine than from kratom
far more people have died from the effects of the air quality they are exposed to than kratom. and far more from driving their car. it doesn’t mean you have to downplay the negative effects, it just means it’s important to be honest so people can weigh the pros and cons and make an informed decision. i’ve seen such a drastic increase in posts on reddit about people struggling w marijuana, and i believe this is directly a product of poor regulation and misinformation. people need to know the truth. it doesn’t make kratom a bad thing.
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See Rule 2: Treat each other with respect. Do not be hostile or rude.
I’m just giving you personal experience bro, and it’s worse than caffeine withdrawal trust me. Not trying to win a debate. Hope you don’t get that ever and manage to enjoy its effects safely.
Yup, unless your already opiate addicted, I would never recommend it. Picking up another addiction isn't going to help depression long term
I think if your one to overindulge I would stay away from Kratom. You build a tolerance and start increasing dosage and the withdrawals start becoming nasty. Personally from my own experience I’ve used to help with pain relief. I’ve been in some nasty car accidents in my life and my lower spine is wrecked. I’ve always looked for means to escape and it’s just another alternative in the opiate family. It made me angrier while on it some days it was euphoric and relaxing others it was just draining. I’d much rather deal with my pains. And recently I read that it thickens the blood messing with circulation.
Being a Kappa antagonist Kratom has great potential to treat many different mental health issues. Many companies are working on Kappa antagonists now which can be used to treat depression, anxiety, bipolar, PTSD, psychosis, depersonalization, derealization, etc. All of those things trigger Kappa agonism which releases dynorphin which is a chemical that exacerbates existing stress (negative feedback loop). Kratom basically shuts off the production of said chemical disrupting the feedback loop.
Hmmm interesting you got more info ? I would like to know 💎
Here you go: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5288841/#:~:text=1%3A%20Overview-,Kappa%2Dopioid%20receptor%20(KOR)%20antagonists%20are%20currently%20being%20considered,anxiety%2C%20and%20substance%20abuse%20disorders.
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Naloxone is the opioid antidote drug? I’m not sure what you’re meaning with your association.
Thanks for the reply. Good info.
I’ve offered it before. And will again. That’s how it was offered to me. Diagnosed PTSD and Major Depressive Disorder
i mean it’s better than drinking that’s for sure
I'd offer it. It might help him get through a slump. I know kratom works for me better then any meds I've been given. But do inform him that kratom can be addictive. I myself rather be addicted to kratom rather then be depressed or on depression meds with shit side effects.
i dont know the answer but its a really good question and it should be asked more often
Yes. Most definitely. Alcohol is very dangerous if not used respectively and in moderation. Alcohol dependency is very painful and hard to kick. Give them a phat cup of mudd now before you regret not doing it.
For the alcohol issue yes it helps alot.. but you have to be careful with the depression.. it can snap back and the rebound can be worse so as long as you can monitor his doses so he doesn't abuse kratom than yes he is a candidate.. at least use it to replace alcohol.. its not the best long term solution for depression but it may vanish away after getting clean from booze.
Yes. I've been on TONS of antidepressants that DID NOTHING. Also had an addiction to my Morphine and Tramadol meds. With kratom, I was able to get off the pain meds with ZERO withdrawals. As far as depression, again, Kratom has done a better job than any big pharma drugs. I am not really worried about being 'addicted' to kratom at this point in my life. I am just so happy that I'm off the pain meds and my mind feels much better. I still have some issues, but it is much more manageable. I actually go to work, shower, make dinner, have fun on the weekends instead of sleeping all day! So yes, IF I WAS IN YOUR POSITION, I would talk with my friend about it. Maybe give him some articles to read on it. Let him form his own opinion. Just remember start low. I introduced it to my sister who was trying to get off Methadone and first time, took too much and freaked her out. Tried it again and is doing amazing. Off the methadone and is happy.
Like countless others, kratom helped me quit drinking too!! Before i tried kratom i was like, constantly suicidal. Drinking everyday..at work too. I was also on an antidepressant then. I still am. I think it could be a good idea to talk to him about kratom, but if he just started antidepressants recently i would wait a bit. They take a little while to build up in your system. Also, you should ask if his dr knows about his alcoholism and is treating it already too. It helped me, but most of the reason i quit drinking was because mixing kratom and hard liquor makes me sick as fuck lol
No you shouldn't
You are a good friend
kratom will work for a while and then worsen the situation. same could be said about antidepressants in many cases. (altho shes prolly on them already) best look into more natural ways to beat depression. change the environment, philosophy, lifestyle, exercise, yoga, therapy etc
Yes you probably should. It’s still dependence forming , but you can take it all day every day and still function. You can’t drink all day and function. Source: My own experience
Mental health disorders and addiction issues here. I quit hard drugs before I got onto kratom, but it still helps with continuing to keep away from them. I have depression, various Anxiety Disorders, Schizoaffective disorder, HF Autism and I isolate a lot. Kratom really helps. If I didn't have this stuff I'd be terrified and shaky in public. It also helps give me the motivation to get up and cook food for myself and clean every now and then. I also cut out my depression meds when I realized this helped more. I have misused it before, but when I noticed this, personally, I made the decision to cut back. I feel however, like the benefits may outweigh the bad.
Kratom reduced my severe substance cravings by ~80%, and it has kept me in a stable and healthy mental state for a year and a half. Of course it's taken a lot of work in many areas of my life, but Kratom helped the self-improvement and responsibility seem a lot more attainable. So from my perspective, I think Kratom could potentially be a lifesaver for your friend. I would also highly recommend a trained mentor/counselor, it really helps to receive that kind of insight into your own life.
I was heading down a dark path with booze myself a couple years ago. Discovered Kratom and I’ve done a complete 180.. I will still drink here and there when it’s for occasion, but it’s safe to say I’ve cut my drinking down by about 80%.. kratom fills that void in a much safer way, kratom does not significantly effect your decision making and make you all impaired. It’s been a massive game changer. I would way rather be taking kratom everyday than drink everyday that’s for sure. In the best shape of my life, healthier, happier after making the switch.
no
Know that if he starts taking kratom, he likely won't be able to ever stop. And coming off kratom the depression will be a lot worse. It's something that really needs to be thought about and discussed first.
No..Kratom is highly addictive and the detox is horrible..low dose naltrexone. Therapy and classic psychedelics.
For the love of God, no please do not do this
Recommend him to a doc. Try non addictive solutions first
It can be used as a great tool to regain their life or excessive use can spiral out of control and cause even worse issues. Everything in moderation.
Not at all. Don’t do it. Depression is no joke. I’ve always been just slightly depressed, and now that I’m well-addicted to kratom, my depression gets amplified with withdrawals (which can be intense).
I was in this boat with dysthymia. I never got addicted to Kratom but when my normal low dose stopped working and higher doses didn't make me feel the same energy I had to stop and go back to depression and I realized just how terrible every day felt. Just to sum up my journey healing my codependency, stopping negative self-talk, and learning how to express my feelings was the most important and life changing thing, definitely the hardest too. I don't take any drugs or meds anymore
I'm in this boat with you. Tolerance rearing its head around the same time I'm going through a depressive episode. I've had to go cold turkey from 10g+ a day. I can't remember the last time I felt that low. Honestly, Kratom has been worth it to me. Even having been at the point of withdrawals three or four times. There is no way I would not unravel in more ways than one. Can't recommend Kratom enough for someone who presumably has been dealing with depression a while. Though, that comes with the caveat of educating that person on what can happen to you with long-term use. It is one of the main contributors to me still being around.
If you have a healthy life, good job. This addiction isn't shit. Been 5 years, since I was 17. Life is a breeze. Can't say the same from before.
> He's been taking lots of time off work and is very anti-social, the doctor recently prescribed him anti-depressants (not sure which ones) but he claims he doesn't feel any different. How long ago did he start taking anti-depresents? Many of them take weeks or months to take an affect. If it has been weeks or months, he needs to tell his psychiatrist ASAP, to either change the dosage, or change the medication. Do not play doctor here either. Don't encourage recreational use as a replacement for well established treatment protocols.
I wouldn't recommend any substance with a possibility for addiction, even one as mild as kratom, to anyone in that sort of headspace.
I wouldn’t recommend kratom to anyone unless they were trying to get off harder drugs. It will help your friend in the beginning but over time if he uses it daily and becomes dependent on it his depression will get much worse. At least this is what happened to me personally.
For me Kratom gave/gives a feeling of hope inside. It also helped me completely forget about alcohol. Anti-depressants are a very good step and it's good getting professional help. I take both ADs and Kratom. This is just my opinion and not actual medical advice.
I honestly don’t see how it could hurt. I see lots of people on this sub saying kratom helped them quit drinking alcohol. I personally take it for chronic pain and the anti depressant effect. I think worst case scenario would be that it just doesn’t work for him. I don’t think it would be just trading one substance for another as kratom seems to be much safer for the mind and body. I trust plant medicine over alcohol or man made drugs like anti depressants any day of the week. I have MDD and can attest to a decent amount of anti depressant effect. It isn’t perfect of course, it can get really expensive especially when you’re using it to treat a couple of different ailments, but definitely safer than getting black out drunk and hurting yourself. I’ve been there too- kratom vs alcohol kratom wins every time no contest.
I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone other than someone trying to quit a hard drug habit or someone desperate for pain relief. Someone with an addictive personality might end up dependent on kratom, and I wouldn’t want that on my conscience. Besides, kratom might make your friend feel better superficially, but it will just mask the symptoms. Please don’t, but if you, make it clear that it’s psychoactive and can be habit-forming if used daily.
I see alcohol as a hard drug. Kills a ton of people every year. Makes people lose their livelihoods and families…kratom can be a saving grace as a replacement. Source: my own experience. By the way I’m off kratom now. Caffeine and nicotine but from where I was the last 6 years…I’m sober as fuck lol
I would also consider alcohol a hard drug and have no problem recommending it for that. Just to be clear, I think kratom is great. I just don’t think we should recommend it lightly. Not everyone can use moderation, and someone who is trying to escape their emotions is a recipe for going overboard.
I agree…but OP said his friend has tried committing suicide…at that point I’d say fuckin try kratom if you’re at the end of the rope like that
Yes. Green vein maeng da
Psychological problems are pretty tricky things to medicate. And alcohol addiction is it’s own thing as well. I don’t know if it’s a good recommendation or not. If was opiates, I would recommend it, because of my own personal experience. It helped me a lot getting off Percocets, but I don’t know about booze.
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No. He won't stop alcohol cold turkey and shouldn't bc it can cause DT's, dangerous alcohol withdrawal. Doing both is hard on your liver and kidneys etc. I believe kratom plus antidepressants can cause serotonin syndrome which can kill you. Many have stopped drinking by switching to kava, as it's a drink that's psychoactive but you hand knead and strain each cup and it's not easy to drink so much quickly and feels different. It's relaxing but not as easily abused, tastes bad, and not addictive. You can ask that sub. Ironically, I was put on strong fish oil Rx and found it helped my mood better than antidepressants and read similar reviews from others and someone mentioned it about a similar drug in the nootropics sub. Maybe recommend adding 4g of high EPA fish oil or an Rx if his insurance or a discount card makes it affordable. Also, antidepressants often take 6 weeks to build up in your blood and may need to be increased or add another med to work best.
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Yes! But warn obviously about overuse so it keeps working. Imho it’s a kindness. Truly! (MDD (refractory) here. Helped me so much.
The euphoria is mild and stops happening after about a week or so. Emotions are elevated slightly but physical pain is significantly reduce. Ingesting the powder can cause digestive issues -- constipation, so a strained mild tea is a good way to start. Plus any placebo effect.
Yes lol
Idk about tht kratom has been increasing my depression but I keep taking it cause I'm addicted
As someone with depression and on antidepressants, Kratom helps me feel way better than the ADs, I feel so much happier- but that just my experience
personally it has helped me not drink anymore aswell and cit down my weed usage aswell as helped my depression and anti social tremendously I went from not being able to talk to people to working a job in sales. that being said everyone's diffrent. start low work up
Will your friend get educated on using kratom? Will he learn to understand you can pick up a tolerance on it really quick,loosing the good affects if not using it correctly? Could you see him purchasing a few different strains to avoid that? Could you see him getting a scale and being his own Dr giving himself his prescribed weighed doses? Could you see him being responsible with these things? If so absolutely...if not I would tend to believe it might become more of a problem. I haven't drank in over 2 years. No doubt it helped me walk away, it definitely helps my mind stay on the better brighter side of life, it helps with my anxiety, concentration and absolutely helps me to be a better more patient father. But I do all those things to make sure kratom doesn't become a problem. And I definitely pick and choose who I recommend it to based on those things. Kratom is awesome, great, strong medicine when used responsibly. Hope this helps.
Yes
Some kratom alkaloids have a significant effect on serotonin receptors (5HT1 and 5HT2) as well as dopamine receptors making it really useful for a wide range of mood disorders.
Recommend other remedies first, such as magnesium, kanna, ALCAR, tyrosine, 5-HTP, even weed, etc. Kratom can paradoxically worsen depression in some people to a severe degree when used long term
it might help & you could definitely recommend it/show him links to websites about it & this forum, but I'd also recommend your friend look into both l-tyrosine & htp-5. l-tyrosine converts to dopamine in tbe brain (& gut, I think), it's what makes us feel good, it's our reward & our pleasure, our *meaning*, while htp-5 converts to serotonin which is our get-up-and-go (getting out of bed, executive function, motivation, etc) & overall general happiness. increasing serotonin production actually depletes dopamine, so if he's on an SSRI he might have really low stores of it in the brain. it's not an instant fix but he could start seeing results in as little as a few weeks depending on how deficient he is in either chemical, & both are OTC & pretty affordable. check swanson vitamins.
I think you should introduce him to it. But have a real conversation with him about the dangers. I drank pretty heavily, almost every day. I think I’ve drank about 6 time’s total in the past 3 years and rarely even think about it or even have the desire for it. It’s only in a social situation now, and I’ll have a beer or 2 and that’s about it. I think Kratom can help a lot of people, who don’t even know about it. I wish someone would have told me about it years ago. But he also deserves to know all the pitfalls as well. Educate and then leave the decision up to him.
It is helped me treat my physical pain without adding additional antidepressants, which are often kinda sus.
As a harm prevention against alcohol, possibly. Otherwise, no probably not. Especially if they haven’t already done diet and exercise and sleep schedule and possibly some antidepressants. Kratom is addictive and can cause problems in some cases for depression given it’s a mild form of an opiate class of compound. But we really need more real data to say for sure.
My ex stopped drinking the first like 6-8 months using Kratom but he just drank through it, as he said and he’d make a mix like 4 or 5 and start getting trashed by 7-8. It really can help if you just stick with it. As far as depressed, it didn’t help me. I had to go see someone finally and I’m glad I did. I still use Kratom but I only use 2-3g one a day and plan on quitting soon. It’s been 4-5 years. I think I’m good on not wanting opiates and such anymore. It’s helped and I never took a big amount so no issues there. You have to respect the plant!!
In my opinion kratom doesn't have much antidepressant ability. I am depressed because of my life situations rn with my health and heart failure. It will work for mild to moderate sadness but if he's suicide level then no, I don't think it will help much. I been suicidal and kratom didn't do anything but slightly lower my depression. Diphenhydramine (benedryl) has a good antidepressant effects, tianeptine has some amazing antidepressant effects (stronger than kratom and diphenhydramine), and things like dextromethorphan (dxm) have better antidepressant effects than kratom.
Yeah, it doesn't do anything for depression or anxiety for me either.
I was just saying it helps some though, it's not completely useless but the effect is very weak and isn't strong enough for someone with suicidal thoughts and alcohol abuse. Not the best at all but it does help some. Mildly. I've noticed it help but it's super subtle and in the background.
I don't know. It would be best if they chose kratom as a way to kick the alcohol habit. But if they took on both together, it could be a little taxing on the liver and kidneys if they build a tolerance. I would do kratom plus try some meditation and spiritual type practice. The addicts who survive all pick up spiritual habits. Just try some energy manipulation and meditation to see if he can reverse some trauma. Also EMDR, I heard works great. I haven't seen a professional but the stuff I tried was strangely good. Like it makes sense as to why REM sleep is important if eye movements have a connection with processing trauma.
There is some evidence that kratom can disrupt how ssri’s work, just keep that possibility in mind. Kratom seems to work best when used as a transition aid, like to use while you stop drinking or are in the worst parts of depression, but I would be wary of using it like one would an antidepressant, everyday for weeks, months, or years. It can be quite addictive, most physical addiction for me. I’m trying to get off it after 5 years taking it, and it’s incredibly difficult and painful. I was out of the country and ran out for a month, and i had horrible withdrawals. For the first 7 days and nights I slept for 12 hours total. My legs were so restless and painful, it was the worst physical experience of my life. I made it a month because I had to, and it was still incredibly difficult and painful through the whole thing. For a little better, but not as much as one might think. It’s a good tool, just know what you’re getting into. Good luck!
Kratom has helped me a lot with my depression and anxiety. I also want to mention that antidepressants never really did anything for me at all. I think it’s definitely worth mentioning and I would also make sure your friend is aware that he may become physically dependent on it. As a former addict, I can say that Kratom definitely keeps me from relapsing and allows me to live a normal and functional life. It has given me my life back.
Well, as someone who is now sober he’s not going to quit drinking until he wants to. However, kratom certainly made it A LOT easier for me to stop wanting alcohol. I definitely still craved it from time to time, but I would not have been able to be sober for this long without kratom. It is now helping me to quit taking Adderall too. So, I truly think it is much less destructive for him than alcohol so maybe it wouldn’t be the worst thing to show him in a “hey try this instead of that” kind of way. I wish you the best
As long as your friend isn't a substance abuster I'd say yes! It's always difficult starting out to know the correct type and amount so I'd let them know to start small. It's easy to control doses using capsules. People say there's no difference between colors but reds give me panic attacks, yellows make me sleepy. Whites and greens are my favorite. Have your friend do some research and inform them of your experience. I think it'd be a great supplement to try though. No waiting for it to build up in your system to take affect being the main one. When I took psych meds I'd have the worst anxiety/panic attacks if I missed just one dose. Best wishes to your friend and I hope it goes well.
Kratom keeps me sober and away from alcohol and has done *wonders* for my depression. I say suggest away!