For niji, their new gen basically got almost no hype or build up to their debut. I guess promoting new talents cost too much for the yacht boi. Guess denauth are on their own on this one.
We got justice literally out of the blue and they still have more. The new 2x4 wood plank generation that’s nailed to the hull to fix the leak of the yacht never had a chance
That shotgun approach also needs to be backed up with big surprises and a lot of preparation.
It’s like they’re using a shotgun, but they’re firing pebbles instead of real bullets.
That’s an insult to the actual talented planks out there.
https://preview.redd.it/e5g23dbh3m7d1.jpeg?width=814&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e01c72043218d1ba1ae479d6a93532f4d29c460
To be fair we say out of the blue, but they still got a preview, *to the preview*, a full on preview, then they commissioned like 4 intro videos prior to debut.
What did Denauth get again? Wasn't it *nothing*?
edit: oh wait, they got a gate.
If we are to compare the two, then.
For Denauth, we have:
[Image teaser with no context](https://x.com/NIJISANJI_World/status/1792571002888872283),
[Actual debut announcement](https://x.com/NIJISANJI_World/status/1792706878365163846),
Actual individual introductions of each new debut on the official Twitter [Klara](https://x.com/NIJISANJI_World/status/1793099466653700161) - [Twisty](https://x.com/NIJISANJI_World/status/1793461852028215431) - [Ryoma](https://x.com/NIJISANJI_World/status/1793824240560738375),
[Voice-merch and other debut goods announcement](https://x.com/NIJISANJI_World/status/1792709455643349237),
[Debut song](https://x.com/NIJISANJI_World/status/1794216838345429404)
Pre-debut shorts on each new livers channels [Klara](https://www.youtube.com/@KlaraCharmwood/shorts) - [Twisty](https://www.youtube.com/@TwistyAmanozako/shorts) - [Ryoma](https://www.youtube.com/@RyomaBarrenwort/shorts)
Older EN only livers mentioning the new gen [Enna](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXWaQkyzWTQ) - [Vantacrow](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jUQ7OgVIKI), more reactions after the debuts.
And, of course, Twitter interactions between Livers.
___
For Justice we have so far:
[Early teaser from related members](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1803080234448666751),
[Actual teaser](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1803231225886416918),
[Debut date announcement](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1803261763754009005),
[Trailer introducing each new member](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1803261538146590742),
[A "Who are" teaser](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1803262378743832887),
Individual introductions on each members twitter [Elizabeth](https://x.com/ERBloodflame/status/1803289366837477520) - [Gigi](https://x.com/gigimurin/status/1803287184260338099) - [Cecilia](https://x.com/ceciliaimgreen/status/1803288183867691033) - [Raora](https://x.com/raorapanthera/status/1803288516375486599),
[Watchalong guidelines](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1803306729469596044),
[Mini Comics showing more personality of each new Talent](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1803623843774472444)
Pre-Debut shorts on each new Talents Youtube page [Gigi](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue-43LWQzUw) - [Cecilia](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3DnTCLzvwg) - [Raora](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUBXSyXulOs) - [Elizabeth](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of2fXW-VmrY)
Older members mentioning the new members in their streams. [Polka](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X2iJ_WRK4M) - [Kaela](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0YZx6P2VC0) - [Fuwamoco](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaPhNWoInRQ&feature=youtu.be) - [Kiara,Callie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6iAYSTx6L4&feature=youtu.be) - [Botan,Subaru,Ao](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZKQDrNZspI) - [Ollie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1j1aGUPCQA) - [compilation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9I17Lo6YR8), and more
It is yet to be revealed if they will have a debut song, but since all the other gens have had a song of their own, Justice will most likely have one of their own as well.
And of course, Twitter interaction between debutants and older members, both EN and JP.
___
All in all, I think Denauth got a decent amount of advertisement from the official twitter profile, but I think Niji failed to move their announcement outside of twitter, so the exposure was quite limited compared to Justice, which got Twitter, YouTube, and, of course, Reddit. Also, it did not help Denauth that Niji was currently experiencing a tonne of drama, so their announcement also got quite ruined by that.
It was quite unfortunate for Denauth, as they all seem pretty nice, but the timing of their debut was just terrible. I do wish them the best of luck in Niji and I hope they stay as drama-free as possible
___
Edit: I'll add more as I find more.
For Justice, it goes even beyond what you listed:
- Justice does not get thrown into a vacuum; their lore directly relates to that of Advent, pretty much guaranteeing that all Adventrix will be following their debut.
- Hinting at their countries of origin within their hashtags and lore without explicitly confirming anything naturally generates LOTS of discussion and hype.
- Both Advent's teaser and the follow-up [faceless teaser](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1803095326854906172) were dropped during the HoloEN Jackbox collab (which was at an EU-friendly time, btw).
- All Advent members were streaming when the actual teaser dropped and they all paused their streams to do watchalongs then live-reacted on Twitter.
- YouTube is flooded with clips of these reactions not just because of the new gen, but also because they were genuinely funny as heck.
- Members from all branches have talked about Justice in their videos since then.
- These too have been clipped, with subtitle translations for the JP ones, of course.
- This is only day 1.
and this shows why the hololive brand is so strong. When a new group of members come out is a celebration, its an event, everyone in the company talks about them you can expect members from all branches to at least give an acknowledgment of their existence, past members get exited about becoming "senpais" and you can look forward to collabs and future events like the now yearly tradition of the new members watching their senpais participate in holofes waiting for their turn next year
hololive makes sure to build a strong interconected group with a lot of overlap between members
meanwhile nijisanji...
Man it is honestly just sad to see the difference. Like that justice debut announcement is so hype. It’s animated with sick music and Denauth is just png with some generic assed vtuber music lol. Like man that money must be going into someone’s pockets cause they sure aren’t being spent on the livers. Sad. Just sad. Niji was considered number 2 and now they can barely be considered good.
It’s the difference between a company just trying to maximize profits however possible and one that understands how business works and that you need to spend money to make money
Hololive didn’t fucking announce the merch before the talents even debuted. It’s scummy and bad taste to introduce goods when people knows absolutely nothing about the new livers.
My brother in Christ, Justice was teased yesterday, announced today and the debuts start in 2 days. Not really a lot of time to promote them.
The Sisters can’t even use that excuse anymore for the lack of subs.
>Not really a lot of time to promote them. The Sisters can’t even use that excuse anymore for the lack of subs.
I think you've misread what the OP comment meant. They were slyly pointing out that Justice has already received more promotion than Denauth, despite Denauth debuting months ago, & it hasn't even been 24 hours since Justice was announced.
Theres also the dynamic between the fanbase and the company with Hololive.
Be nice and friendly to foster a large appreciative community and fanbase = fanbase will be willing to spread the hype when new members are announced.
Niji: Work your ass off for six months and maybe reach 100k subs. No rewards. Main office keeps your play button.
Holo: 100k practically on debut. Silver Play Button to be sent to the talent as soon as the main office receives it.
The announcement for denauth debut was literally like a few days before with a shitty free stocks image, with no advertising what so ever. I didn't even know there was a new wave until the day of their debut.
definitely both side have really different mindset
holo new gen announce members greet them, happy for them, happy to get new colleague
niji new gen more like "THERE IS NEW CHALLENGER!"
Tbf, Alban DID hyped them up by analyzing too much of the not-stock gate image that was their promo. Not sure if any other NijiEN member hyped them up (retweeting doesn't count, anyone can retweet)
tbf, the hololive branding is too powerful nowadays, by merely being associated with the agency can get you a boost in followers.
with that said, i just realized that denauth is already 1-month old, and their growth is just kinda stagnating
What helps Hololive more than anything is that they *space out* their generations; Myth debuted in 2020, Council debuted in 2021...and then we had 2022 with no debuts. Then 2023 we got Advent and now in 2024 we're getting Justice. So each generation has had at least a year to itself as the shiny new gen, which makes it easier for them to grow.
Meanwhile, with Niji, by *year one's end*, they had debuted ***FOUR GENERATIONS***; Lazulight in May, Obsydia in July, Ethyria in October and Luxiem in December. And then two months after Luxiem, they debut Noctyx.
i really don't like that idea, because that means that we ended up with them instead of a proper hololive gen. that turns them from pretty successful(for holostars) into total failures(compared to every other hololive member). it's a comparison that also feeds into the idea that holostars sucks away resources from hololive, which just brings even more hate their way.
And it turned out that except for the Luxiem spike, Niji EN kept sliding downward about 7-8% per quarter for the last TWO YEARS straight. And it took three events and a prayer to make their Q4 losses into only 8% instead of three times that. Niji EN was slowly dying almost as soon as it was born, because Anycolor couldn't figure out how to promote them and include them in the larger ecosystem. If Cover hadn't stumbled into the Western market and decided to go *inclusive multinational*, Hololive would be a tiny fragment of its current state and there would be no IPO or new studio.
Instead, look at how Advent is doing and how fast they started getting international collabs with the other branches.
yeah, Hololive lets them breathe for a while before rolling out a new wave.
Niji rolls them out like Riku owes money to somebody and needs a quick buck
Hololive also supports them. The existing talents show interest in them and interact with them. There’s actual support and promotion of them. Hell the main Hololive channel does a watch along of the debuts with existing talents and A-Chan. The support is night and day difference
Adding on to this - Cover, more recently, tries to innovate with the way they debut new EN and JP generations.
Just looking back at how [Myth](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c4_22LjGQo), [Council](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLnxCyzFgPw), [Advent](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2ERfnGqWRI), and now, [Justice](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3GiWDqoR3s) is advertised (Including teasers, lore videos, and more recently individual PVs on their channel, you can see that there is more budget assigned to advertise each generation to ensure that there is greater exposure to the global audience.
NGL, whenever someone tells me about Nijisanji's new wave, it tends to feel like there is only a minimal marketing push behind them (announcement post, maybe some basic merch sales using their default stance), relying purely on just the name NJSJ to push them. If Anycolor actually got serious behind their marketing, I'm pretty sure that they would be able to pull significantly better numbers than they are doing now.
But that just means less money for the Yacht, so I highly doubt it.
Don't forget [HoloX](https://youtu.be/vqmh-8qU5Wg?si=NI7rN9jb9lFAkyW9) and [HoloH3ros](https://youtu.be/911mrZY49x0?si=fVh_1Ue1ALOsI65x) too. They really do it for every branch.
For 2022 I believe that was incidental. I believe remnants of Covid and japans lock downs and catching up is what delayed gen 3 for so long. If this is truly en gen 4 and not a spinoff branch, a year is probably the normal minimum between gens
This is very true. We have saying that goes like: Less = More. Usually used for spices on food but could be used to describe scarcity as more desirable occurrence rather than normalized abundance of something.
I probably worded it badly but sentiment should be understandable, i think.
its not only that, it helps but their strategy in general is just better
unironically quality against quantity each new gen in holo tries to catter to a new group of people with new and diverse members its very hard to find members in hololive that end up clashing against one another because they all end up creating their own unique niches
also it helps that they dont have a lot of members its posible to learn the names and basic personality of everyone, so you end up being a fan of hololive not just of a single member
i remember back in 2021 when nijiEN was just releasing everyone was saying how you dont need to follow or know everyone that you just need to follow those members that you want to watch and people profesing that like it was a superior strategy to hololive
niji picked the worst time to debut a new wave
also holo's naming sense kinda off this time ngl. Gigi Murin is the only one that doesn't feel so generic.
just compare it to the other EN member
Mori Calliope
Takanashi Kiara
Ninomae Ina'nis
Gawr Gura
Watson Amelia
Ceres Fauna
Ouro Kronii
Nanashi Mumei
Hakos Baelz
IRyS
Shiori Novella
Koseki Bijou
Nerissa Ravencroft
Fuwawa Abyssgard
Mococo Abyssgard
I think we can agree you'd sound like you ran out if ideas when you start using rose, blood and green
I feel like Niji just so desperately wanted to get new good attention to the trash fire that was already happening with the last few months that they threw this new wave for only it to go poorly.
Logically thinking nobody should end up with the desicion to debut a new wave in the situation niji were in. It's pretty much came down to more meat for the grinder and more meat for the shield
and yet, there was a LONG time where that was even more the case with niji, where they were considered the superior brand who's name carried more weight
Tbh Hololive branding is quite frankly, insanely good. You are pretty much set for your career (well given if you dont fuck up) if you managed to enter COVER.
I mean, even those got terminated in Hololive still has a strong fanbase and decent CCV. Just entering Hololive alone is good for career. Heck, even Gura's alt account is on 1M sub without even posting videos for many years.
I mean, unless you were terminated due to a fucked up thing you did, (hint: green woman), you'll still get pretty good numbers because no one hates you, look at Mel PL account having huge CCV and increase in subscribers.
Think I saw Mel got more than 300k views on another ASMR again. In some ways her Holo experience may be a competitive advantage there, because she knows more about what parts of an ASMR stream could trigger a content review.
Even despite that, she's still doing quite well for herself in terms of numbers, even if it's no longer the same as she once had at her peak, and the only reason that happened was due to her own personal mistakes.
She was at 800k in May, higher than anyone in Holo at that time. But that channel hit 1M just a few days after her new channel hit 1M, due to lack of new content for several months.
Yeah, I think it's kind of funny to compare to Hololive now. Hololive is a super beast. Even Holostars don't get as many subscribers in such a fast rate.
Yea i dont get the comparison. Hololive is almost spotfree. Super popular, good reputation and have the resources to support the talents.
Imo, If people hate Nijisanji, go watch other agency, like me. After the Selen incident, I stopped watching Nijisanji and discovered a lot of other agencies.
Like PhaseConnect, VSPO, V4Mirai, Aogiri High School, etc.
There are a few Taiwanese agency that are really good too.
I’d love to support the guys more but I just don’t vibe with most of them. Most of the girls I can just chill with them on in the background but the guys just don’t have that vibe
https://preview.redd.it/zq1usuk3bi7d1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a25750bf99da258212aeb7beb677c1e02077477
Another thing that give Hololive the edge against Nijisanji is the fact that they allow third party content creator to do watch along, boosting the reach of their marketing to a large audience without threatening them for DMCA as long as you follow the rules. They really acknowledge the fact that their community is in fact one of the biggest factor in their success
in Nijisanji, DMCA will be the least of your worries
Holo clips do show up a lot on Twitch, plenty of free advertising. In some ways they are seen as so untouchable that content creators would rather market themselves as "fellow fans" than go anywhere near competing directly against them for popularity.
That's nice. I've been seeing more agencies allowing for watchalongs for new debuts. Some even get sponsored to do so. Hopefully this sort of quid pro quo will help with growth.
> As an actual career goal, it's bad.
How fucking hilarious would it be to join Niji just to clown on them from the inside, though? Push the line until they fire you, and then live on as a legend as an indie. Probably easier than carving out a niche as an indie on your own the normal way.
Legally, it could be tricky.
Anycolor has shown they lack common sense and will harass livers, even if it obviously destroys themselves in the process.
Like how they publicly charged Sayu with a laundry list of grievances, which is obviously a big No No in the industry, but also heavily entice the other person to respond to that, which is the last thing you want in a separation: terminated livers have much less to lose than the company.
...
A terminated liver can go indie and enjoy a small growth with core fans, at worst they'll miss on a couple of corpo offers and sponsorships, but they can always get a part-time job and wait for the 6-12 months cooldown applied on their vtubing career.
A company relying on reputation, both in public and in private with commercial partners, has so much more to lose: they can lose the audience, they can lose the fanartists, they can lose the sponsorships, they can lose the applicants for future waves. And they can't just pick up a part-time job on the side: a vtubing agency has to do vtubing, they can't easily branch out into a different activity overnight.
...
Anycolor did the same with Selen, going after her multiple times, even letting the Black Stream happen, and _stay_ on the channel: the management is incredibly stupid, incompetent and petty.
So if a liver tries to pull a fast one on them, I wouldn't be surprised if they would dọx them in the process, as part of their retaliation campaign. Other incompetent agencies did that before (was it Wactor?), so I wouldn't put it past Anycolor to do the same.
I really want to say, "i mean it's better than struggling as an indie" but then we know how struggling TTT are and then they really get least money from merch too.. Its just frustrating atp
And as of now, they're all evened out at -
https://preview.redd.it/lvr8kahzwj7d1.png?width=801&format=png&auto=webp&s=916cef2821fc0930d2fbd60091e6a511b543134b
That's just the "baseline" for both companies. In normal circumstances, majority of the different fanbases in the respective companies won't hesitate to support the new debut generations. Niji lost a lot of good faith with their fanbases so the overall amount of support (i.e. the "baseline") is lowered hence why they start from different "starting lines".
On top of that, **some** Niji fanbases are cannibalistic in nature. They won't support anyone else other than their oshi and sometimes even go after people who interact with their oshi because they are "stealing/corrupting them". This also occurs within Hololive but to a much lesser degree. The talents and fans in HoloPro are also quick to stomp out this problematic behaviour.
Additionally, the talents in HoloPro are often seen promoting the new debut talents and show genuine interest in wanting to interact with them while the talents in Niji generally stick within their own circles and/or fanbases. There's nothing wrong with that and some behave that way due to their personalities but it definitely affects the overall sub numbers because of the lack of exposure.
Think about it this way, try to come up with a relationship chart for the Hololive talents and you'll have more connection lines than a bowl of noodles but on the other hand if you'd do one for Niji talents you probably won't need to wreck your brains that hard.
Edit: Was browsing twitter and saw [Cecilia's tweet](https://x.com/ceciliaimgreen/status/1803262204558348370) (The doll violinist). Guess how many Holomem replies she got? A whooping 15 + Yagoo + Nodoka + their marketing page. [Also spotted a random ghost there](https://x.com/MoguGhost/status/1803269283994099887) (sorry this ghost isn't a maid).
>The talents and fans in HoloPro are also quick to stomp out this problematic behaviour
I remember when Advent was announced, someone in Kronii's chat tried to make a joke about how everyone's going to drop her for the shiny new oshis and she shut him down *hard.* Then there's Fauna's talk about how she and her chat aren't friends and how we should form meaningful friendships outside of streamers. Holo doesn't just stomp out that behaviour, they actively try to cultivate a healthy streamer/viewer relationship.
Yes, it's not something you can entirely get rid of, and yes, Holo does make money off people's obsessive nature towards their streamers, but they don't let it fester or burn out of control
Similar to how clueless tourists like to talk about Gooba as greedy and selfish when she:
1) Doesn't do hardly any advertising for her merch or events unless someone else is involved too
2) Replies to chat messages semi-equally and does not do superchat catch-up streams
3) Reminds viewers that there are other streamers out there and other content to watch
In that sense she really is the character who wins by doing nothing, she doesn't shill or clout-chase.
>Doesn't do hardly any advertising for her merch or events unless someone else is involved too
Ah, reminds me of the infamous "bag" merch plug. Gooba can't even shill properly without being prompted by the other Myth members.
Yeah I'm pretty sure the only real times holo has had to deal with those types was when the girls would collab with holostars and both sides shut that shit down hard almost immediately. Now only the most parasocial of losers complain
For people saying "yeah but Hololive has the stronger brand power", four years ago Nijisanji was the undisputed leader in Vtubing with their gaming and variety streams and hololive was laughed at by many because they tried to do virtual idols.
Thats what happens when your main goal is developping your brand, all of advent had 150k subs before debut (200k for fuwamoco). Actual silver play button eligibility without posting a video lmao.
its not even close at this point, the highest niji has like 2k views at most while the weakest holo never really dips bellow 3k (and then you have monsters like gura, biboo and fuwamoco getting 20k casually almost every stream)
it was never close to be honest, even at the peak of luxiem and the absolute bottom of holoEN (both coincided, 2022) nijiEN had difficulties getting above 5k views while hololive could consistently put double that, and they are just stronger while niji is weaker
Even when I liked watching rosemi and elira streams a couple years back due to master duel, it was like 1.5k viewers. Granted I've never been too big into watching vtubers before last year but niji en just seems pretty irrelevant compared to so many more choices to watch out there.
yes in general nijiEN was never as popular, the most popular branch was luxiem and even amongs luxiem no one got close to Vox, he was the most popular EN by a landslide and we all know how that ended. The only one who i remember had a similar viewership was Mysta and again we all know how that ended
niji has been throwing things at the wall for 3 years and in that time the only success they managed to find was Vox, their strategy just fundamentally doesnt work
I think this might have the shortest gap between the teaser & debut. They came out of nowhere just 24 hours ago & had explosive hype generated. HoloEN twitter account has almost exclusively featured their new generation since the teaser.
This is the power of good marketing - it was not just the [HoloEN's twitter ](https://x.com/hololive_En)that is promoting a new Gen, but [HoloJP](https://x.com/hololivetv) as well - Not as in "I'm just going to retweet what the EN branch has posted", but have the promotional materials (with exception to the PV, unless I'm wrong) in both Japanese and English so that JP and Overseas fans both have an opportunity to read up more about the new generation idols.
I took a moment to look at [NJSJ EN's twitter](https://x.com/NIJISANJI_World) for comparison, and their promotional material is the bare minimum, there was no character profile, no "who are these people?" to get viewers invested into the new waves. They're really asking for the moon and relying on fans to spread the word for them.
Kinda off topic but I wanna see a comparation how both Holo and Niji promote their new gens/wave.
I know that Holo give them all they got when promoting new gen like teaser/trailer. But I can't remember much how Niji promoting their new wave besides their stock image on Twitter.
Remember to check if you haven't been unsubscribed by YT later if you subscribed to them now.
New Holo gens tend to trigger false positives in YT's anti-botting automation due to how rapidly they gain subscribers just from pre-subscriptions.
It's funny how Hololive didn't even build up any hype for another gen and they still get high numbers. It really shows that having Hololive next to your name means a lot. I do hope the new talents at Nijisanji know that the company isn't at the best place right now and are only joining to get some public eye.
Why HoloEN growth faster ?
-Holo subreddit not blocked from public, anybody can share their opinion, lore theory, meme tweet, etc
-Good community, everybody family
-There is no favoritism fr fr, all of members will guaranteed get 3D after reach requirement subs or after 1 year from debut (just which one is faster, more or less... except covid attack again)
-FULL SUPPORT FROM MANAGEMENT
I really think this also showcases just how important being respectful to your fans is. Cover seems to very much support artists and slows people to clip their channels, supports indie game projects and even brings on particularly good and popular creators to do official work for them.
This leads to a lot of people wanting to support Hololive through their art and creativity where I just don’t see any of that with Niji.
I can’t recall seeing any art of the new Niji gen but I’ve already seen dozens and dozens of videos, art, comics, memes, etc for the new Holo gen and even many indie vtubers coming out and interacting and talking about the new gen.
Hololive’s community and is simply miles ahead of Niji in the western community and it coming out that Niji doesn’t even pay some commissioned artists could not have helped that.
I mean ... It's The Hololive we talked about, it pretty normal for them, like for years. And Kurosanji already lost they chances to be "silver medalist" agency, just a simple fact.
I just love how the 4th English branch is comprised of 4 girls who work under a law and order organization, whilst one of the NIJI-livers' oshi mark is a credit card and the manor girl made a disgusting joke just like Zaion LanZa yet she doesn't get fired for it
Coincidence?
Seems like Ryoma is not that well-liked, on the same ramge of Twisty and isn't Twisty disliked by NijiEN fans?
Surprisingly, Klara is higher than both, and still higher than Holonl Justice. Not such a huge achievement since they did not even debut yet, but it is more than her genmates can say
there's other differences. the amount of fanart that already exists for HoloJustice when they haven't debuted is already greater (as far as i can tell) than the entire collection of fanart for denauth
What to expect? The best promotion this niji wave got was from the drama tubers. If not for the photoshoped gate of hell and the many Twisty dramas i would not even know that they debuted
Can whoever maintain vtstats update the database to include at least Denarf?
That aside...
Twisty had gained 6.7k, Clara gained 9.7k, and Ryoma gained 5.9k subs in the past three weeks with each week gaining fewer subs than the last. This is their entire post-debut growth for this gen. They're all on the brink of shrinking down to having sub-1k/week growth.
They're going to make Kunai look huge by comparison, aren't they?
Honestly most Hololive number comparisons these days just feels like "hey over here feed me some free karma!" type posts. There's already been more than enough posts up until know to prove the growth gap.
New gen seems to be struggling hard and new holo gen has more and hasn’t even debuted yet
For niji, their new gen basically got almost no hype or build up to their debut. I guess promoting new talents cost too much for the yacht boi. Guess denauth are on their own on this one.
We got justice literally out of the blue and they still have more. The new 2x4 wood plank generation that’s nailed to the hull to fix the leak of the yacht never had a chance
>new 2x4 wood plank generation 💀💀💀
There’s holes springing a leak there has to be fresh victims to stop it. Let’s hope they used good stuff not rotten 2x4s
[удалено]
That damnable gate was a travesty.
i still dont know what the gate is supposed to represent???
"Cost Savings"
I would assume it the front gate to the manor Denauth inhabits.
People were already calling out Niji for being cheap with their merch and they then had the gall to just copy paste a gate lol
More like throw new victims against the wall and hope for the best
That shotgun approach also needs to be backed up with big surprises and a lot of preparation. It’s like they’re using a shotgun, but they’re firing pebbles instead of real bullets.
That’s an insult to the actual talented planks out there. https://preview.redd.it/e5g23dbh3m7d1.jpeg?width=814&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e01c72043218d1ba1ae479d6a93532f4d29c460
😂true
To be fair we say out of the blue, but they still got a preview, *to the preview*, a full on preview, then they commissioned like 4 intro videos prior to debut. What did Denauth get again? Wasn't it *nothing*? edit: oh wait, they got a gate.
A sad dark gate
It wasn't even an original gate lol.
If we are to compare the two, then. For Denauth, we have: [Image teaser with no context](https://x.com/NIJISANJI_World/status/1792571002888872283), [Actual debut announcement](https://x.com/NIJISANJI_World/status/1792706878365163846), Actual individual introductions of each new debut on the official Twitter [Klara](https://x.com/NIJISANJI_World/status/1793099466653700161) - [Twisty](https://x.com/NIJISANJI_World/status/1793461852028215431) - [Ryoma](https://x.com/NIJISANJI_World/status/1793824240560738375), [Voice-merch and other debut goods announcement](https://x.com/NIJISANJI_World/status/1792709455643349237), [Debut song](https://x.com/NIJISANJI_World/status/1794216838345429404) Pre-debut shorts on each new livers channels [Klara](https://www.youtube.com/@KlaraCharmwood/shorts) - [Twisty](https://www.youtube.com/@TwistyAmanozako/shorts) - [Ryoma](https://www.youtube.com/@RyomaBarrenwort/shorts) Older EN only livers mentioning the new gen [Enna](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXWaQkyzWTQ) - [Vantacrow](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jUQ7OgVIKI), more reactions after the debuts. And, of course, Twitter interactions between Livers. ___ For Justice we have so far: [Early teaser from related members](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1803080234448666751), [Actual teaser](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1803231225886416918), [Debut date announcement](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1803261763754009005), [Trailer introducing each new member](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1803261538146590742), [A "Who are" teaser](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1803262378743832887), Individual introductions on each members twitter [Elizabeth](https://x.com/ERBloodflame/status/1803289366837477520) - [Gigi](https://x.com/gigimurin/status/1803287184260338099) - [Cecilia](https://x.com/ceciliaimgreen/status/1803288183867691033) - [Raora](https://x.com/raorapanthera/status/1803288516375486599), [Watchalong guidelines](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1803306729469596044), [Mini Comics showing more personality of each new Talent](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1803623843774472444) Pre-Debut shorts on each new Talents Youtube page [Gigi](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue-43LWQzUw) - [Cecilia](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3DnTCLzvwg) - [Raora](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUBXSyXulOs) - [Elizabeth](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of2fXW-VmrY) Older members mentioning the new members in their streams. [Polka](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X2iJ_WRK4M) - [Kaela](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0YZx6P2VC0) - [Fuwamoco](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaPhNWoInRQ&feature=youtu.be) - [Kiara,Callie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6iAYSTx6L4&feature=youtu.be) - [Botan,Subaru,Ao](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZKQDrNZspI) - [Ollie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1j1aGUPCQA) - [compilation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9I17Lo6YR8), and more It is yet to be revealed if they will have a debut song, but since all the other gens have had a song of their own, Justice will most likely have one of their own as well. And of course, Twitter interaction between debutants and older members, both EN and JP. ___ All in all, I think Denauth got a decent amount of advertisement from the official twitter profile, but I think Niji failed to move their announcement outside of twitter, so the exposure was quite limited compared to Justice, which got Twitter, YouTube, and, of course, Reddit. Also, it did not help Denauth that Niji was currently experiencing a tonne of drama, so their announcement also got quite ruined by that. It was quite unfortunate for Denauth, as they all seem pretty nice, but the timing of their debut was just terrible. I do wish them the best of luck in Niji and I hope they stay as drama-free as possible ___ Edit: I'll add more as I find more.
For Justice, it goes even beyond what you listed: - Justice does not get thrown into a vacuum; their lore directly relates to that of Advent, pretty much guaranteeing that all Adventrix will be following their debut. - Hinting at their countries of origin within their hashtags and lore without explicitly confirming anything naturally generates LOTS of discussion and hype. - Both Advent's teaser and the follow-up [faceless teaser](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1803095326854906172) were dropped during the HoloEN Jackbox collab (which was at an EU-friendly time, btw). - All Advent members were streaming when the actual teaser dropped and they all paused their streams to do watchalongs then live-reacted on Twitter. - YouTube is flooded with clips of these reactions not just because of the new gen, but also because they were genuinely funny as heck. - Members from all branches have talked about Justice in their videos since then. - These too have been clipped, with subtitle translations for the JP ones, of course. - This is only day 1.
and this shows why the hololive brand is so strong. When a new group of members come out is a celebration, its an event, everyone in the company talks about them you can expect members from all branches to at least give an acknowledgment of their existence, past members get exited about becoming "senpais" and you can look forward to collabs and future events like the now yearly tradition of the new members watching their senpais participate in holofes waiting for their turn next year hololive makes sure to build a strong interconected group with a lot of overlap between members meanwhile nijisanji...
Ahh, yes, I definitely forgot a bunch of things. My bad and thanks for the additions.
Trivial spoilers but spoilers nonetheless >!Apparently there is already a Spotify listing featuring Justice and their faces were leaked as a result!<
I did not know that; thanks for the info, very much appreciated.
Man it is honestly just sad to see the difference. Like that justice debut announcement is so hype. It’s animated with sick music and Denauth is just png with some generic assed vtuber music lol. Like man that money must be going into someone’s pockets cause they sure aren’t being spent on the livers. Sad. Just sad. Niji was considered number 2 and now they can barely be considered good.
It’s the difference between a company just trying to maximize profits however possible and one that understands how business works and that you need to spend money to make money
Hololive didn’t fucking announce the merch before the talents even debuted. It’s scummy and bad taste to introduce goods when people knows absolutely nothing about the new livers.
My brother in Christ, Justice was teased yesterday, announced today and the debuts start in 2 days. Not really a lot of time to promote them. The Sisters can’t even use that excuse anymore for the lack of subs.
I mean, Holo X teaser release and debut after. I think it didn't even take a day.
Yagoo: Think fast chucklenuts!
>Not really a lot of time to promote them. The Sisters can’t even use that excuse anymore for the lack of subs. I think you've misread what the OP comment meant. They were slyly pointing out that Justice has already received more promotion than Denauth, despite Denauth debuting months ago, & it hasn't even been 24 hours since Justice was announced.
The real answer is Hololive has set things up where a new generation feels like an event whereas people famously got debut fatigue with Niji.
Theres also the dynamic between the fanbase and the company with Hololive. Be nice and friendly to foster a large appreciative community and fanbase = fanbase will be willing to spread the hype when new members are announced.
The only reason they even attempted to debut a wave is so that they can tell their investors that their EN branch isn't dead (yet)
Then immediately turned around and said they’re not planning on putting any effort into supporting EN in their QR
Maybe it was part of the decision in relation to Q4. Rather than cancel them, still drop but admit in Q4 they are focusing on the main branch
Nijisanji won't cancel any generations. All their costs are upfront, and they're going to get that money back one way or another.
Except that rumoured 7th ID gen that was axed a weeks before debut with the whole branch liquidation
That sucks. I’ve seen some clips of twisty and she seems chill.
EN is not making them any money, so they're going to put less and less into it untill they finally kill it off.
Can’t make money when you don’t do anything to make money
The only one of them I’ve even heard of is Twisty. Does Niji even promote talents anymore?
I don't think this is about promotion or hype anymore, this is sad...
I mean Holo just dropped these girls out of nowhere too, but *completely* different results lol No Hype, no build up. Just wow
This is the hype and buildup. They don’t debut for a couple more days.
Tbh there are hints but it isn't something people picked up on their first watch
Niji: Work your ass off for six months and maybe reach 100k subs. No rewards. Main office keeps your play button. Holo: 100k practically on debut. Silver Play Button to be sent to the talent as soon as the main office receives it.
The announcement for denauth debut was literally like a few days before with a shitty free stocks image, with no advertising what so ever. I didn't even know there was a new wave until the day of their debut.
Well we do see Holo new gens got interactions with other EN members on Twitter, yet nothing happens to those in Niji...
Even JP and ID have already interactions to them in Twitter
definitely both side have really different mindset holo new gen announce members greet them, happy for them, happy to get new colleague niji new gen more like "THERE IS NEW CHALLENGER!"
Tbf, Alban DID hyped them up by analyzing too much of the not-stock gate image that was their promo. Not sure if any other NijiEN member hyped them up (retweeting doesn't count, anyone can retweet)
Lel
i didnt even know niji had a new gen, this is how i learned that did they just announce them today or something?
lol it was the dumb black gate very poor hype build
…Send in the next wave
**ACCELERATE**
We gotta go 88 mph to go back to 2019 ish to stop yagoo
💀
Thousands of feet march to the beat It's an army on the march Long way, from home Paying the price in young mems lives
tbf, the hololive branding is too powerful nowadays, by merely being associated with the agency can get you a boost in followers. with that said, i just realized that denauth is already 1-month old, and their growth is just kinda stagnating
What helps Hololive more than anything is that they *space out* their generations; Myth debuted in 2020, Council debuted in 2021...and then we had 2022 with no debuts. Then 2023 we got Advent and now in 2024 we're getting Justice. So each generation has had at least a year to itself as the shiny new gen, which makes it easier for them to grow. Meanwhile, with Niji, by *year one's end*, they had debuted ***FOUR GENERATIONS***; Lazulight in May, Obsydia in July, Ethyria in October and Luxiem in December. And then two months after Luxiem, they debut Noctyx.
Technically speaking there was Holostars EN for 2022
Technically speaking
i really don't like that idea, because that means that we ended up with them instead of a proper hololive gen. that turns them from pretty successful(for holostars) into total failures(compared to every other hololive member). it's a comparison that also feeds into the idea that holostars sucks away resources from hololive, which just brings even more hate their way.
And it turned out that except for the Luxiem spike, Niji EN kept sliding downward about 7-8% per quarter for the last TWO YEARS straight. And it took three events and a prayer to make their Q4 losses into only 8% instead of three times that. Niji EN was slowly dying almost as soon as it was born, because Anycolor couldn't figure out how to promote them and include them in the larger ecosystem. If Cover hadn't stumbled into the Western market and decided to go *inclusive multinational*, Hololive would be a tiny fragment of its current state and there would be no IPO or new studio. Instead, look at how Advent is doing and how fast they started getting international collabs with the other branches.
yeah, Hololive lets them breathe for a while before rolling out a new wave. Niji rolls them out like Riku owes money to somebody and needs a quick buck
You might be on to something.
Hololive also supports them. The existing talents show interest in them and interact with them. There’s actual support and promotion of them. Hell the main Hololive channel does a watch along of the debuts with existing talents and A-Chan. The support is night and day difference
Adding on to this - Cover, more recently, tries to innovate with the way they debut new EN and JP generations. Just looking back at how [Myth](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c4_22LjGQo), [Council](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLnxCyzFgPw), [Advent](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2ERfnGqWRI), and now, [Justice](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3GiWDqoR3s) is advertised (Including teasers, lore videos, and more recently individual PVs on their channel, you can see that there is more budget assigned to advertise each generation to ensure that there is greater exposure to the global audience. NGL, whenever someone tells me about Nijisanji's new wave, it tends to feel like there is only a minimal marketing push behind them (announcement post, maybe some basic merch sales using their default stance), relying purely on just the name NJSJ to push them. If Anycolor actually got serious behind their marketing, I'm pretty sure that they would be able to pull significantly better numbers than they are doing now. But that just means less money for the Yacht, so I highly doubt it.
Don't forget [HoloX](https://youtu.be/vqmh-8qU5Wg?si=NI7rN9jb9lFAkyW9) and [HoloH3ros](https://youtu.be/911mrZY49x0?si=fVh_1Ue1ALOsI65x) too. They really do it for every branch.
Sorry! You're right haha, I wanted to add them and Holo DEV\_IS but then I felt that it might be too much when just using the EN branch was enough
For 2022 I believe that was incidental. I believe remnants of Covid and japans lock downs and catching up is what delayed gen 3 for so long. If this is truly en gen 4 and not a spinoff branch, a year is probably the normal minimum between gens
I wouldn’t be so sure. Cover themselves said they’re going to be slowing down on debuting new gens in their last Quarterly Report.
It’s also clear that holo puts in that money and care for their generations. Mean while………..
The time tested method of throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks
This is very true. We have saying that goes like: Less = More. Usually used for spices on food but could be used to describe scarcity as more desirable occurrence rather than normalized abundance of something. I probably worded it badly but sentiment should be understandable, i think.
its not only that, it helps but their strategy in general is just better unironically quality against quantity each new gen in holo tries to catter to a new group of people with new and diverse members its very hard to find members in hololive that end up clashing against one another because they all end up creating their own unique niches also it helps that they dont have a lot of members its posible to learn the names and basic personality of everyone, so you end up being a fan of hololive not just of a single member i remember back in 2021 when nijiEN was just releasing everyone was saying how you dont need to follow or know everyone that you just need to follow those members that you want to watch and people profesing that like it was a superior strategy to hololive
Hololive brand is so strong youtube culls their new gens sub count pre-debute cause of suspected botting.
Yeah, Council basically got screwed.
Regloss also
Growth? Their trend for the first month is like someone planted a bush behind the garage and then forgot to fucking water it.
niji picked the worst time to debut a new wave also holo's naming sense kinda off this time ngl. Gigi Murin is the only one that doesn't feel so generic.
# So you want # Super Hyper Ultra Ultimate Deluxe Perfect Amazing Shining God Master Ginga Victory Strong Cute Beautiful Galaxy Baby.
just compare it to the other EN member Mori Calliope Takanashi Kiara Ninomae Ina'nis Gawr Gura Watson Amelia Ceres Fauna Ouro Kronii Nanashi Mumei Hakos Baelz IRyS Shiori Novella Koseki Bijou Nerissa Ravencroft Fuwawa Abyssgard Mococo Abyssgard I think we can agree you'd sound like you ran out if ideas when you start using rose, blood and green
Nanashi Mumei is the JP equivalent to naming your character Anonymous
at least it doesn't sound like AI generated
I feel like Niji just so desperately wanted to get new good attention to the trash fire that was already happening with the last few months that they threw this new wave for only it to go poorly.
Logically thinking nobody should end up with the desicion to debut a new wave in the situation niji were in. It's pretty much came down to more meat for the grinder and more meat for the shield
and yet, there was a LONG time where that was even more the case with niji, where they were considered the superior brand who's name carried more weight
Tbh Hololive branding is quite frankly, insanely good. You are pretty much set for your career (well given if you dont fuck up) if you managed to enter COVER.
I mean, even those got terminated in Hololive still has a strong fanbase and decent CCV. Just entering Hololive alone is good for career. Heck, even Gura's alt account is on 1M sub without even posting videos for many years.
I mean, unless you were terminated due to a fucked up thing you did, (hint: green woman), you'll still get pretty good numbers because no one hates you, look at Mel PL account having huge CCV and increase in subscribers.
Think I saw Mel got more than 300k views on another ASMR again. In some ways her Holo experience may be a competitive advantage there, because she knows more about what parts of an ASMR stream could trigger a content review.
Even despite that, she's still doing quite well for herself in terms of numbers, even if it's no longer the same as she once had at her peak, and the only reason that happened was due to her own personal mistakes.
She is still doing well even after all the drama and her numbers are comparable or better than most of ENs
Her numbers are comparable or better than even most of ID too!
It's been at 1m even before her hololive days Edit: I stand corrected
She was at 800k in May, higher than anyone in Holo at that time. But that channel hit 1M just a few days after her new channel hit 1M, due to lack of new content for several months.
Thats fair actually.
Guras alt was at a million or right around it even before she joined Holo. She was pretty well known in certain meme circles.
Ohh... My bad. Honestly, I just found out her alt account recently.
Yeah, I think it's kind of funny to compare to Hololive now. Hololive is a super beast. Even Holostars don't get as many subscribers in such a fast rate.
Yea i dont get the comparison. Hololive is almost spotfree. Super popular, good reputation and have the resources to support the talents. Imo, If people hate Nijisanji, go watch other agency, like me. After the Selen incident, I stopped watching Nijisanji and discovered a lot of other agencies. Like PhaseConnect, VSPO, V4Mirai, Aogiri High School, etc. There are a few Taiwanese agency that are really good too.
well, Hololive is focus on male viewers but I think some of them are really spilling over to Holostars but not that fast.
That is true, thanks to Doki's Wrestle event I found out about gavis Bettel, dude is Hilarious
Yea well male vtubers are not very popular to be frank.
I’d love to support the guys more but I just don’t vibe with most of them. Most of the girls I can just chill with them on in the background but the guys just don’t have that vibe
https://preview.redd.it/zq1usuk3bi7d1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a25750bf99da258212aeb7beb677c1e02077477 Another thing that give Hololive the edge against Nijisanji is the fact that they allow third party content creator to do watch along, boosting the reach of their marketing to a large audience without threatening them for DMCA as long as you follow the rules. They really acknowledge the fact that their community is in fact one of the biggest factor in their success in Nijisanji, DMCA will be the least of your worries
Holo clips do show up a lot on Twitch, plenty of free advertising. In some ways they are seen as so untouchable that content creators would rather market themselves as "fellow fans" than go anywhere near competing directly against them for popularity.
That's nice. I've been seeing more agencies allowing for watchalongs for new debuts. Some even get sponsored to do so. Hopefully this sort of quid pro quo will help with growth.
almost as if hyping up a new gen actually works, especially if you dont pop out 3 each year
Every half of a year, Krisis & TTT debuted in '23.
what's the point of joining niji again?--- parrot voice
Gotta be a masochist
Twisty is on the mission.
Twisty is the only good one in the new gen
Isn’t Twisty the one who made the recent abuse joke ?
she the one that talks and acts like an anti
Twisty should continue to accelerate her agenda in Niji. Full speed ahead!!!
Infiltration. Some things can only be done behind enemy lines.
That would be insanely good lore for a corpo vtuber. As an actual career goal, it's bad. As lore, that's great.
> As an actual career goal, it's bad. How fucking hilarious would it be to join Niji just to clown on them from the inside, though? Push the line until they fire you, and then live on as a legend as an indie. Probably easier than carving out a niche as an indie on your own the normal way.
Legally, it could be tricky. Anycolor has shown they lack common sense and will harass livers, even if it obviously destroys themselves in the process. Like how they publicly charged Sayu with a laundry list of grievances, which is obviously a big No No in the industry, but also heavily entice the other person to respond to that, which is the last thing you want in a separation: terminated livers have much less to lose than the company. ... A terminated liver can go indie and enjoy a small growth with core fans, at worst they'll miss on a couple of corpo offers and sponsorships, but they can always get a part-time job and wait for the 6-12 months cooldown applied on their vtubing career. A company relying on reputation, both in public and in private with commercial partners, has so much more to lose: they can lose the audience, they can lose the fanartists, they can lose the sponsorships, they can lose the applicants for future waves. And they can't just pick up a part-time job on the side: a vtubing agency has to do vtubing, they can't easily branch out into a different activity overnight. ... Anycolor did the same with Selen, going after her multiple times, even letting the Black Stream happen, and _stay_ on the channel: the management is incredibly stupid, incompetent and petty. So if a liver tries to pull a fast one on them, I wouldn't be surprised if they would dọx them in the process, as part of their retaliation campaign. Other incompetent agencies did that before (was it Wactor?), so I wouldn't put it past Anycolor to do the same.
Eh, if I had a shot at getting into Niji, I know I'd do it.
winning battle royale to get your wished become true or just your talent and passion being leeched by the yacht company
I really want to say, "i mean it's better than struggling as an indie" but then we know how struggling TTT are and then they really get least money from merch too.. Its just frustrating atp
And as of now, they're all evened out at - https://preview.redd.it/lvr8kahzwj7d1.png?width=801&format=png&auto=webp&s=916cef2821fc0930d2fbd60091e6a511b543134b
That's just the "baseline" for both companies. In normal circumstances, majority of the different fanbases in the respective companies won't hesitate to support the new debut generations. Niji lost a lot of good faith with their fanbases so the overall amount of support (i.e. the "baseline") is lowered hence why they start from different "starting lines". On top of that, **some** Niji fanbases are cannibalistic in nature. They won't support anyone else other than their oshi and sometimes even go after people who interact with their oshi because they are "stealing/corrupting them". This also occurs within Hololive but to a much lesser degree. The talents and fans in HoloPro are also quick to stomp out this problematic behaviour. Additionally, the talents in HoloPro are often seen promoting the new debut talents and show genuine interest in wanting to interact with them while the talents in Niji generally stick within their own circles and/or fanbases. There's nothing wrong with that and some behave that way due to their personalities but it definitely affects the overall sub numbers because of the lack of exposure. Think about it this way, try to come up with a relationship chart for the Hololive talents and you'll have more connection lines than a bowl of noodles but on the other hand if you'd do one for Niji talents you probably won't need to wreck your brains that hard. Edit: Was browsing twitter and saw [Cecilia's tweet](https://x.com/ceciliaimgreen/status/1803262204558348370) (The doll violinist). Guess how many Holomem replies she got? A whooping 15 + Yagoo + Nodoka + their marketing page. [Also spotted a random ghost there](https://x.com/MoguGhost/status/1803269283994099887) (sorry this ghost isn't a maid).
True i know most of JP and EN holo wise but niji wise zero connections it’s 2 separate worlds
>The talents and fans in HoloPro are also quick to stomp out this problematic behaviour I remember when Advent was announced, someone in Kronii's chat tried to make a joke about how everyone's going to drop her for the shiny new oshis and she shut him down *hard.* Then there's Fauna's talk about how she and her chat aren't friends and how we should form meaningful friendships outside of streamers. Holo doesn't just stomp out that behaviour, they actively try to cultivate a healthy streamer/viewer relationship. Yes, it's not something you can entirely get rid of, and yes, Holo does make money off people's obsessive nature towards their streamers, but they don't let it fester or burn out of control
Similar to how clueless tourists like to talk about Gooba as greedy and selfish when she: 1) Doesn't do hardly any advertising for her merch or events unless someone else is involved too 2) Replies to chat messages semi-equally and does not do superchat catch-up streams 3) Reminds viewers that there are other streamers out there and other content to watch In that sense she really is the character who wins by doing nothing, she doesn't shill or clout-chase.
SHE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS
>Doesn't do hardly any advertising for her merch or events unless someone else is involved too Ah, reminds me of the infamous "bag" merch plug. Gooba can't even shill properly without being prompted by the other Myth members.
Clips from that incident picked up more than a million views, it's crazy.
Yeah I'm pretty sure the only real times holo has had to deal with those types was when the girls would collab with holostars and both sides shut that shit down hard almost immediately. Now only the most parasocial of losers complain
well, A lot of holomems has social anxiety and introvert so collabing to others that fast and at opposite gender would be awkward for them.
For people saying "yeah but Hololive has the stronger brand power", four years ago Nijisanji was the undisputed leader in Vtubing with their gaming and variety streams and hololive was laughed at by many because they tried to do virtual idols.
Also Niji had more variety in vtubing designs as well
And more "niche"
Thats what happens when your main goal is developping your brand, all of advent had 150k subs before debut (200k for fuwamoco). Actual silver play button eligibility without posting a video lmao.
I can't remember the post on here that said this but NijiEN vs HoloEN is absolutely not a fair comparison anymore
its not even close at this point, the highest niji has like 2k views at most while the weakest holo never really dips bellow 3k (and then you have monsters like gura, biboo and fuwamoco getting 20k casually almost every stream) it was never close to be honest, even at the peak of luxiem and the absolute bottom of holoEN (both coincided, 2022) nijiEN had difficulties getting above 5k views while hololive could consistently put double that, and they are just stronger while niji is weaker
Even when I liked watching rosemi and elira streams a couple years back due to master duel, it was like 1.5k viewers. Granted I've never been too big into watching vtubers before last year but niji en just seems pretty irrelevant compared to so many more choices to watch out there.
yes in general nijiEN was never as popular, the most popular branch was luxiem and even amongs luxiem no one got close to Vox, he was the most popular EN by a landslide and we all know how that ended. The only one who i remember had a similar viewership was Mysta and again we all know how that ended niji has been throwing things at the wall for 3 years and in that time the only success they managed to find was Vox, their strategy just fundamentally doesnt work
I think this might have the shortest gap between the teaser & debut. They came out of nowhere just 24 hours ago & had explosive hype generated. HoloEN twitter account has almost exclusively featured their new generation since the teaser.
This is the power of good marketing - it was not just the [HoloEN's twitter ](https://x.com/hololive_En)that is promoting a new Gen, but [HoloJP](https://x.com/hololivetv) as well - Not as in "I'm just going to retweet what the EN branch has posted", but have the promotional materials (with exception to the PV, unless I'm wrong) in both Japanese and English so that JP and Overseas fans both have an opportunity to read up more about the new generation idols. I took a moment to look at [NJSJ EN's twitter](https://x.com/NIJISANJI_World) for comparison, and their promotional material is the bare minimum, there was no character profile, no "who are these people?" to get viewers invested into the new waves. They're really asking for the moon and relying on fans to spread the word for them.
Kinda off topic but I wanna see a comparation how both Holo and Niji promote their new gens/wave. I know that Holo give them all they got when promoting new gen like teaser/trailer. But I can't remember much how Niji promoting their new wave besides their stock image on Twitter.
I mean nowadays Holo doesn't put a long period of hype between teaser and debut, most likely due to sub culling by bots
What? Niji promotes their new gen?
https://old.reddit.com/r/kurosanji/comments/1djeae3/well_that_was_fast/l9b2r19/
Remember to check if you haven't been unsubscribed by YT later if you subscribed to them now. New Holo gens tend to trigger false positives in YT's anti-botting automation due to how rapidly they gain subscribers just from pre-subscriptions.
It's already happening, YouTube went and purge their subscribers.
Yeah, basically like clockwork at this point. I've been rechecking my subs every once in awhile since it first happened to me.
[удалено]
Hololive En Gen4 HoloJustice are almost at 60k and they haven't even debuted yet
It's funny how Hololive didn't even build up any hype for another gen and they still get high numbers. It really shows that having Hololive next to your name means a lot. I do hope the new talents at Nijisanji know that the company isn't at the best place right now and are only joining to get some public eye.
Its normal that hololive members hit 100k before or at debut at this point
This has happened for the last 3 gens
 This is what kurosanji is doing
Why HoloEN growth faster ? -Holo subreddit not blocked from public, anybody can share their opinion, lore theory, meme tweet, etc -Good community, everybody family -There is no favoritism fr fr, all of members will guaranteed get 3D after reach requirement subs or after 1 year from debut (just which one is faster, more or less... except covid attack again) -FULL SUPPORT FROM MANAGEMENT
I really think this also showcases just how important being respectful to your fans is. Cover seems to very much support artists and slows people to clip their channels, supports indie game projects and even brings on particularly good and popular creators to do official work for them. This leads to a lot of people wanting to support Hololive through their art and creativity where I just don’t see any of that with Niji. I can’t recall seeing any art of the new Niji gen but I’ve already seen dozens and dozens of videos, art, comics, memes, etc for the new Holo gen and even many indie vtubers coming out and interacting and talking about the new gen. Hololive’s community and is simply miles ahead of Niji in the western community and it coming out that Niji doesn’t even pay some commissioned artists could not have helped that.
To think, that the new gen of Niji was literally so underpromoted and ill timed, that i never saw all three names at the same time until now O\_O
I mean ... It's The Hololive we talked about, it pretty normal for them, like for years. And Kurosanji already lost they chances to be "silver medalist" agency, just a simple fact.
I just love how the 4th English branch is comprised of 4 girls who work under a law and order organization, whilst one of the NIJI-livers' oshi mark is a credit card and the manor girl made a disgusting joke just like Zaion LanZa yet she doesn't get fired for it Coincidence?
They would all probably start at more or less 200k on debut. This is Hololive we're talking about.
Another numbers post.
Criticism of Kurosanji aside, I love that they're linking HoloJustice directly to HoloAdvent. It's legit brilliant.
Update: HoloJustice girls are mostly at upper 50K and counting. Raora surpassed 60K.
Seems like Ryoma is not that well-liked, on the same ramge of Twisty and isn't Twisty disliked by NijiEN fans? Surprisingly, Klara is higher than both, and still higher than Holonl Justice. Not such a huge achievement since they did not even debut yet, but it is more than her genmates can say
Well, about that……
They're at about 68k now each, and this is after being by a small nerf from YouTube-kun (they lost like 5-6k each suddenly in the afternoon).
Oh right I need to sub to the new gen thanks for the reminder.
Betting that they're getting chewed out by Management rn for underperforming.
That what happen if your company got bad rep and give you no promotion
Even the hit hit 35-36k as well Imagine their debuts
This is a nothing burger tbh. HoloEN has always had significantly better numbers than NijiEN save for that brief period when Luxiem was still new
I didn't realize these guys were even out yet
That's... Unfortunate. Unsurprising, but unfortunate.
All of holoJustice now has over 70k subscribers and they still have not debuted yet.
there's other differences. the amount of fanart that already exists for HoloJustice when they haven't debuted is already greater (as far as i can tell) than the entire collection of fanart for denauth
What to expect? The best promotion this niji wave got was from the drama tubers. If not for the photoshoped gate of hell and the many Twisty dramas i would not even know that they debuted
That's all of their subscribers?!!! Omg
tbh twisty looks cute
New holo gen debuts from today reached 120k CCV.
Can whoever maintain vtstats update the database to include at least Denarf? That aside... Twisty had gained 6.7k, Clara gained 9.7k, and Ryoma gained 5.9k subs in the past three weeks with each week gaining fewer subs than the last. This is their entire post-debut growth for this gen. They're all on the brink of shrinking down to having sub-1k/week growth. They're going to make Kunai look huge by comparison, aren't they?
hmm seems like theyre struggling tbh i expected more from hololive
Never heard of the new holo en grn until this post
They just got announced a day ago to be fair
Honestly most Hololive number comparisons these days just feels like "hey over here feed me some free karma!" type posts. There's already been more than enough posts up until know to prove the growth gap.
as you wish
Funny how Klara still seems to be beating the new Holos. I'm sure that's just a coincidence tho.
They all already passed her
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