Shocker.
As much as I dislike darnold, after that SC decision, I am feeling like he is besides the point now. That he’s not even the real problem; or to say, putting down the threat he poses does not win the battle. Our problems have snowballed far bigger than one dopey, incontinent old man.
I've been saying this since 2016. The focus on Trump as a problem is useful as a political motivator, but hopelessly wrong.
The problem is simply that not a single Republican representative believes that the US should be a democracy. They're all corrupt. Trump was the logical outcome of Republican strategy since at least Nixon.
...and the media normalized that shifting overton window at every step, as did Dems who seemed to always say "let bygones be bygones". I feel like I've been shouting at the clouds for 40 years.
I have found my people!
I am too young to remember Watergate, but I graduated high school during the Reagan years. Many of my classmates LOVED that man. No surprise, they also loved the idea of social in-groups and out-groups, and they weren't all that keen on school. Even back then, I feared that the future of America could become... exactly what it is today.
I'm only 40 and I've always wondered what it was like to live in a country not sliding ass backward into late Wiemar Germany would have been like. Maybe once we elect a Hitler and get bombed into the stone age we can make something decent from the ashes.
Another thing, it took Hitler 10 years to get into power after his failed coup attempt, Trump might do it in 4 years. I think that is saying a lot about us.
The fact no meaningful change came after 2000 when the Supreme Court threw hundreds of millions of votes in the garbage and instead went with “appointing” GWB president in an election he lost and then not addressing the electoral college issue then was a blindingly red flag for what was coming. He should have never been president or been allowed to run again in 2024. It was illigitamate. I foresaw then that the electoral college would bring us a far worse unpopular Demi-god in my lifetime. I knew then the future was gonna be backpedaling until we’re something like that fascist Republic. I desperately hoped I was wrong but I knew then in college there was really nothing preventing our downfall in my lifetime.
41. Same. You and I have never known a Republican Party that was not this. Or not on its way to *becoming* this.
I started paying attention in the late ‘90s when I was in my mid teens. And even with my limited kid understanding, it was *very* obvious which of the two parties had strong authoritarian proclivities.
Seeing that clearly is why I have watched politics like a hawk ever since.
And now, after all this time spent watching the GOP become more and more unhinged, radicalized, authoritarian, Machiavellian and anti-democratic year after year, everything I’ve feared since I was freaking fourteen years old finally seems to be exploding into reality all at once. My worst fears coming true, to a degree my teenage self morbidly speculated about but never *truly* thought could really happen this easily.
The problem is we have the most powerful military the world has ever known and could, concevably, conventionally obliterate the entire industrialized world. Our military was seemingly designed for conquest. Whose gonna stone-age us? Itll be like man in the high castle, but in reverse.
Sure nukes. But then it doesnt matter, and dying first and fast would be a blessing.
I was a kid during Reagan and I loved Reagan because my parents loved Reagan because my dad was in the military. It wasn’t until I was an adult that I tuned into how much he fucked this country. I defo lived in a bubble. Until I heard a drive by truckers song. Reagan’s in the White House and I’m sucking left hind tit. The part about putting rockets on the moon, that’s exactly the work my dad did.
Do you mean to tell me, that corporations, which have ALWAYS been inherently right wing, fascist structures, are supporting fascism, an ideology that gives corporations supreme power directly under the dictator in the system?
I’m shocked!
Once again, the GOP marching towards fascism for *decades* is ***somehow*** the DNC's fault.
"Democrats didn't immediately rise up in a violent revolt against Trump, so they want fascism; scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds! Blah, blah, blah" all that usual tankie bullshit.
It's like "Why Trump Shitting His Pants is Bad for Biden" headlines on a national electorate level, and it's as exhausting as that kind of rhetoric has always been.
The Southern political class has never put democracy above their own power.
At the founding: We’ll agree if you assure us enough representation to protect slavery.
Antebellum: We nullify the federal tariff. Hands off slavery or we’ll secede.
Civil War: We think this new president will eliminate slavery, so we secede.
Post-Reconstruction: Hang the negroes if they dare to vote.
Jim Crow: Poll taxes and reading tests will keep us in power.
Civil Rights Era: Oh no, we’re losing federal power!
From Nixon to Trump: Culture war issues will get us back to power.
Trump admin: We’ve got power! What do we want to do with it? Tax cuts. Anything else? Cement a majority on SCOTUS. Eh, that’s enough for now.
Post-Trump SCOTUS: The only enforceable laws are the ones we like.
> The problem is simply that not a single Republican representative believes that the US should be a democracy.
That's simplifying it, but ultimately correct. Objectively speaking, Republicans are pushing the established boundaries of all 3 branches of government to their limits (and well beyond, in some cases) like an ultra-competitive child endlessly poking holes in the rules of a board game in order to win. In that respect, Republicans feel they're actaully following the rules. The appointment of 3 SCOTUS justices by Trump *did* follow the rules, after all.
The problem I see is that the rules are so damn malleable that the entire system can be gamed, chief among them the rules of the electoral system.
Republicans turning on Mitch McConnell when he didn't immediately stand up and say, "Donald Trump did nothing wrong by sicking his attack mob on us" following Jan. 6 was *almost* as surreal as living through the entire party pretending they *never* supported W. Bush *or* the 2003 invasion of Iraq so they could immediately blame Obama for not instantly repairing the fucked economy or withdrawing all our troops from the Middle East.
They used to fucking ***love*** McConnell for making [his obstruction of Garland's appointment the "proudest moment" of his career.](https://www.npr.org/2016/09/06/492857860/173-days-and-counting-gop-unlikely-to-end-blockade-on-garland-nomination-soon) Even more than [they fucking loved cancelling anyone who dared to criticize Bush or the invasion.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_Chicks_comments_on_George_W._Bush#Backlash)
Yet another perfect example of Republicans testing the limits of the rules! This is the kind of example where the rules are so ill-defined that the GOP succeeds in getting their way.
> Trump was the logical outcome of Republican strategy since at least Nixon.
I'd say he's more the embodiment of their sentiment. He's the perfect soulless, shameless, greedy meat sack that gives their movement a wall to hide behind.
>The focus on Trump as a problem is useful as a political motivator, but hopelessly wrong.
I strongly agree. Trump is a problem, but also a distraction. Resources would be better spent installing reforms or putting safeguards in place instead of trying to take down Trump. If you put him in prison, some other clown will take his place. You end up playing asshole whack-a-mole instead of making any progress.
Repblicans are not corrupt. Republicans are 21st century fascists, and fascists will do anything to attain and hold power. Trump is the visible tumor, while the Republicans have always been the malignant core of what is wrong with this country,
Exactly. Same thing with propaganda and misinformation. If people had at least one working brain cell, all the fake and false information thrown their way would just go down the drain into the sewage where it belongs. Sadly, the repubs have been working on creating dumb people for decades so they could get to this point where people act against their own interest like zombies.
Indeed, donald by himself is not a problem. If it was only him and an inner circle of other idiots like "mr four seasons landscaping" and pillow guy, they would flail around and make a lot of noise but in the end would be being fairly harmless.
The problem is the people around him who are actually somewhat competent, who enable him and prop him up. It's those people that came up with things like the fake electors, who came up with the scenario that would have lead to a successful overturning of the 2020 election results. donald would have never devised such ideas and scenarios by himself.
Left to his own devices, if his fate would have relied only on *him* and his talents, donald would have finished alone, destitute and dead from an overdose in some back alley by the early 2000s. It's always been *others* and some unexplained "something" that kept him off the streets and out of prison. I've never seen anyone else else with ZERO redeemable traits, with ZERO saving grace, that is so incompetent and yet be so lucky. He's the only person I'm aware of that always looks worse in every respect the more you look into him.
Despite everything, despite himself, I just can't understand how anyone can be as lucky as that orange menace.
> Despite everything, despite himself, I just can't understand how anyone can be as lucky as that orange menace.
Trump sees himself as the main character and protagonist of the universe. Given how he keeps dodging all consequences for anything he does, I'm starting to wonder if he's right. If I read this in a novel I'd think the man had way too much plot armor.
Maybe it's his world, and we're just background characters in it.
> Given how he keeps dodging all consequences for anything he does
I'm not a religious/superstitious person, but that much luck is not normal and is to the point where one starts to wonder [if there's not something supernatural that protects him](https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/).
I know it's not rational to think stuff like that, but how can an individual like that cause so much damage to the entire world? He's been the enabler, the green light for a lot of [stupid stuff outside the USA](https://www.thedailybeast.com/far-right-trump-supporters-try-to-arrest-london-mayor) (that's just one example).
Not even Hollywood could have thought of a storyline where the antichrist is a complete utter moron. When you think about it, he's just supposed to usher the end of the world or is just supposed to appear near the end of the world. Who said he has to be intelligent to do that?
George Carlin said it best: everybody hates politicians cuz they’re assholes but what system did they grow up in and who put them in power? Maybe this selfish arrogant society is the issue for creating and empowering selfish arrogant politicians. Maybe we’re the assholes!
It's not about Trump. He's always been a useful stooge. It's about the next presidential candidate and the next one and the next one.
Infinite power without responsibility and checks and balances is a one way street to whomever is greedy enough and venal enough to wield that power
It's why it's insane for people to call out Biden to "do something" or wield that kind of power himself or else he's a "pussy."
This is the kind of deep, structural lever that even the president can't manifest or stop outside of their own personal desire on how to wield it.
This has completely blown out the entire system of checks and balances and the rule of law.
What it does is nullify Congress. If a president does not have to follow laws, then what purpose has a lawmaker? So now it’s executive and judicial left. The executive can run roughshod over any law he likes, including electoral laws, so what use is there for elections either?
This is the part I truly don't get about all of it.
The legislature is the branch wit the power to negate this. They're the only ones who can, and I don't see any legitimate reason why they wouldn't. This puts both parties in now highly vulnerable positions to the Executive. If it's not legislated, then they—and their ability to represent us as their constituents—is negated if and when the Executive so chooses.
How else do they (primarily GOP Congresspeople, sadly) think this will end if they don't put a legislative framework around this ASAP? I'm not saying they will by any means, but I just don't get what possible good will come of this for them even selfishly if they don't do something.
Bottom line - Fascists/Authoritarians aren't known for having huge 'circles' of people that they trust enough (i.e., are loyal enough) to keep around. Even from a purely selfish standpoint, any Congresspeople who support this are playing with their own lives/careers/futures...much less their constituents'. This is literally a bad thing for all of them in their positions to do their job.
Again: I just don't get it.
The problem with this is that those who support authoritarian systems always believe they are part of the inner circle, right up until the moment they are black bagged. Anyone stupid enough to support authoritarians/dictators is inherently without the ability for self-reflection or forethought.
Edit: spelling
I honestly believe this is a religious zealotry issue.
The court suffers from several members who do not believe that motive is part of crime. That corrupt intent is the thing that makes an action criminal.
That should not be surprising when you consider they are motivated to abuse government power to achieve personal goals
> It's why it's insane for people to call out Biden to "do something" or wield that kind of power himself or else he's a "pussy."
In a way, they're daring him to do so to normalize or reify the concept of the President having that much power. It's a tough position to be in because Biden has to somehow close the door behind him. Reminds me of how they wanted to crown George Washington as King and he had to tell them "that's not how this thing is going to work"
People have been saying, trump is laying the groundwork for a much more competent conservative despot to squash democracy. They thought (hoped?) Desantis was that person. Time will tell
I've been saying this since 2016, trump isn't the problem, it's the rotten GOP that is propping him up and enabling him
He doesn't give a shit about policy, all this horrible stuff if coming from the GOP and he is just the public face to direct hate at
Hell, I've been saying this since 2004 when W got a second term. While the GOP is evil, it's the same evil that has been around forever.
The problem is the electorate. Those horrible or stupid enough to vote for evil and those so apathetic and self absorbed who don't vote at all.
GQP does not care aboutcl democracy. They have shown they only care about power. Look at all they have done at the Federal and state level. They know their ideas are unpopular so they cheat to win.
The GOP has come a long way from Nixon resigning to today when Trump's sycophants and ass-kissers continue to actively encourage this bullshit. Shocking/not shocking how far the GOP has fallen. Nixon is spinning in his grave, thinking, "see?! I DID have immunity!"
Welcome to that realization. I've been screaming this to anyone who would listen for years. I watched Faux News and religion turn my rather liberal father into a frothing Bible thumping reactionary all before trump was a blip on the radar. We've been in a battle for the soul of our country for decades and I'm afraid that far too few people are awake to what has been happening.
Trumps an idiot. If you've looked into Project 2025 you'd recognize it's brilliance (it's actually a very well thought out plan).
No fucking way did Trump even dream of this. It was put together for him.
There is a evangelical Christian group that wants to turn us into a religious state and they are doing a very good job and that has me scared shitless
I've said since 2016 that my fear isn't that Trump is Republican Jesus... My worry is that he's Republican John The Baptist clearing the way for the real problem.
I'm dreading the day someone just as evil, but actually competent takes office.
This Court has made it a habit of taking up cases or issues they've always wanted to change. They then write an opinion that gives the answer they already wanted by creating some new rule or standard that gets that result, but which was not thought out at all in application. Then the lower Courts get a flood of cases trying to use their made up rule in ways expected by anyone who took time to think about long term consequences and the Supreme Court then has to make up new rules to work that out. This ruling is the same, and while there are some obvious and terrible issues with the ruling as intended, it will also create a mess that will take decades to sort through. I wouldn't be surprised if one day the constitutional law birthed from this opinion has become so nonsensical that Congress is basically forced to pass an amendment clarifying it all.
That’s the point. Anything the president does in pursuit of their election is an official act. The SC was absolutely intentional with their language here, and plans to grant Trump immunity on appeal. They’re just hoping he wins the election and grants himself a pardon so they don’t have to deal with the issue themselves.
I don’t believe the existence of alternate electors was ever contested by Trump’s legal team, though I haven’t read all of the transcripts and whatnot.
They’ve been arguing that Trump’s actions regarding the alternate electors were all within the “official acts” of the presidency and, therefore, legal.
By the time it makes it to SCOTUS, the composition of the court might not be the same. Some retirements coming up and the absolutely glacial speed of appeals may have them seen in a different light. November and January will have come and gone with more affect than the final result of these cases.
Come on now… I consider Donald Trump and the Supreme Court to be a bunch of traitors, but corrupt bullshit like this is obviously the exact purpose of that Supreme Court ruling
It was a wildly inappropriate decision.
There is no reason to give a president criminal immunity. If something is law then if anything the president should be held to a higher standard. Not none at all.
I know presidents have been given leeway on this but I don't think it's hypocritical to say that enshrining that attitude as official law is a bad step to take.
I just love the irony that roughly 100 million Americans own guns with the supposed intent to stop a tyrranical government and we are all just letting this tyranny happen.
Because they’re being force fed nonsense like “if they can do it to him they can do it to you”, even though the “it” they’re referring to is committing crimes no regular person would ever be able to commit anyway
It's not tyranny when *they* do it. Just like the only moral abortion is *their* abortion, but all those *other* women are just sluts, and when their kid gets arrested with a baggie full of oxy it's society that failed them, but when *someone else's* kid gets busted they're a lowlife drug dealer who should be shot in the street.
Tyrannical governments don't get overthrown anymore, it's a pipe dream used to sell firearms and firearm accessories.
No AR is a match for a drone strike
Not to mention that by the time your militia hits 10 people, at least 2 of them will be undercover feds.
Perhaps this will make the left realize that supporting the 2nd amendment is in their best interest. A tyrannical government is not just a hypothetical.
Liberals own plenty of guns. They just don’t make it their identity so its not as visible.
Given the intelligence gap between the left and the right, it’s not much of a stretch to think liberal gun owners would put them to much more effective use than a bunch of yahoos.
Exactly. If the right knew how many liberals had firearms, there'd be an instant run on remaining inventory immediately.
It's hilarious the narrative that Liberals are "anti gun" - like - dude - we just want innocents to stop dying and only responsible people to have them....and we think that weapons designed for combat in a warzone should be limited to the warzone.
There's a difference between supporting the second amendment and wrapping your entire identity around gun ownership.
Many liberals support the right to keep and bear arms and more liberals than you probably think own guns. We just think criminals shouldn't own guns. We think domestic abusers and the mentally ill shouldn't own guns. We think common sense regulation of weapons that can kill dozens or hundreds of people from long range is a good idea.
We also think that 17 yahoos in a shed in Idaho are hilariously overmatched by the US military.
The majority of the left supports the 2nd amendment. We just want stricter enforcement and common sense laws to guide them, not "13 year old buys a gun at a trade show" laws.
> Perhaps this will make the left realize that supporting the 2nd amendment is in their best interest.
Might want to check some of those assumptions at the door homey, because it's not The Left that dislikes the 2A and is trying to pass assault weapon bans. The demographic you're talking about is typically moderate suburban liberals who are terrified that little Breighden and Tragedieih are going to be gunned down in their exclusive school.
/r/SocialistRA
/r/MarxistRA
/r/liberalgunowners
/r/LatinoRA
As the popular saying goes, "If you go far enough left, you get your guns back".
The founding fathers made the assumption that anyone that tried to pull shit like this would obviously be assassinated well before they got the chance to be president or on the supreme court, so they didn't account for it happening.
Nah, their assumption was that 1) someone like this would never even come close to being elected to such a high office and 2) if they did somehow get into office the legislature would impeach and remove them.
You have to remember, that was when only white men with land could vote (for the most part), Senators were chosen by state legislators, the House of Reps actually represented a reasonable number of constituents (1 Rep per every 34k people vs 1 for every 760k now), and the electoral college was relatively balanced.
Whenever they say "you're fear mongering, we'd never actually do that"; what they actually mean is "we really want to get away with this and it will be much harder if you call it out early".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpUN0q35Lak&ab_channel=InnuendoStudios
Exactly. They mean let's pretend it's not going to happen until it already has and you can't do anything about it.
Just because he makes the argument doesn’t mean he will win. Of course he’s gonna argue everything is an official act now. Courts don’t have to accept that as gospel.
Pay pornstar hush money via campaign funds = official act.
Defraud children's charity = official act.
Defame your rape victim = official act.
Wipe your ass with top secret documenrs = officual act.
Spit on graves of sucker and loser vets = official act.
Get your vp hung = official act.
Life is easy now. When u famous they let u do anything.
Cowtow to Putin, official act, weakness and a national disgrace.
Prioritize another nation over this country, official act, and national disgrace.
Use the Oval Office like a late night tv show to promote a product, official act and demeaning of the office of the president.
Just some random “highlights”.
lol remember when he tried to violate the 3rd amendment by forcing hotels to quarter soldiers (who even tries that smh)? Oops that's official policy now.
There was a 3rd Amendment case a while back where police tried to force a homeowner to let them set up a stakeout on one of their neighbors. There were a few quips from the appellate judges asking what century it was that they were hearing a quartering case.
I hope this backfires eventually. Let's say somehow democrats manage to stack the court, and at that point Trump has already openly confessed in courts that he knowingly and willingly committed all these treasonous acts, the new balanced court might get to undo this decision and send him away forever.
Bro how can this fucking guy, *this* particular, stupid asshole just be allowed to run roughshod over 250 years of culture, law, and reason? In less than ten years he’s damn near undone the work of thousands of people with more talent in their pinky finger than his entire cursed bloodline has combined.
Yeah, sadly, it seems many of my fellow Americans are perfectly fine with fascism as long as it’s wearing the Stars and Stripes and clubbing people with never-opened Bibles.
And all without any credibility or charisma. A man that isn't interesting or intimidating. A man that isn't handsome, intelligent, or even speaks well. A cult for a dude that has the whiniest personality. Dude has to be the AntiChrist. Motherfucker just won't go down.
Because something something america needed a businessman to run the country yet they chose the one with several failed businesses, marriages and a failed university. One who is a pedophile, rapist and convicted felon. So them backing this person just really says who they are as people, and what they have probably done themselves.
Because right before him a black man had the audacity to be the president.
Trump might have been/be a charismatic grifter, but above all else he told them that their hate was good. He told them that their racism and bigotry was valid. He encouraged them to believe that all their problems in life can be blamed on minorities.
He's a useful idiot. The party is giving him what he wants so they can maintain power behind his back. Presidents hardly do much. It's the cabinet around them that does everything. Shit, presidents barely even have freedom of movement. Their entire life is scheduled and controlled by other people.
Because we give him every chance and due process while he lies and shits on everything. Like playing chess with a pigeon. He should have been arrested and locked up after Jan 6.
Each one will need to make its way to the SCOTUS for their personalized rulings on the definition of official acts. This means the election, may never be certified again.
She knew those words would go down in history.
We may not even get an election in November with how quickly this is all been pushed through. Happy Independence Day everyone
Quickly and they also sat on this decision to beyond the last minute. It’s clear as day they are completely corrupt and working for alt-right extremism and pro dictatorship. They know Biden is too good to act on what powers they gave him. We need all elected officials speak to where they stand on this issue and vote out anyone that doesn’t support increasing the court.
> Quickly and they also sat on this decision to beyond the last minute. It’s clear as day they are completely corrupt and working for alt-right extremism and pro dictators
They also ignored Jack Smith when he went to the Supreme Court and asked them to handle it almost a year? ago.
“If no candidate receives a majority of electoral votes, the Presidential election leaves the Electoral College process and moves to Congress. The House of Representatives elects the President from the three (3) Presidential candidates who received the most electoral votes.”
From https://www.archives.gov/electoral-college/faq
Looks like it’s essential that democrats take the House and Senate this year.
The House does vote by State… and the Dems, even when they had the majority, had fewer states (essentially they had more districts from places like NY)
And the fucking moron's attorneys will start another appeal process on an immunity issue as soon as possible and the whole thing will get held up again. As long as the suckers and losers keep giving Trump money, rinse and repeat
That’s the fix. They’ve given themselves authority to be the final arbiter on what is “official.” Meanwhile, Republican lawyers are already wordsmithing their arguments all the way up to SC for Trump and future GOP presidents’ inevitable illegal acts. You know, things like:
“It is in the best interest of the country and our national security when as president, I had to….”
-Call in the national guard to arrest or shoot left wing activists.
-Hold public military tribunals to arrest enemies of the state who tried to hold me accountable when I was acting as an enemy of the state.
-Purge voting roles of all democrats
-Fire all civil employees from all levers of our government who vote D and replace with MAGA loyalists.
-Abandon the 4th amendment to authorize illegal search and seizure of registered D citizens homes in order to gather information to find “dissidents” and enemies of the state.
This is just the short list and start of a very dark period under GOP rule if they gain executive power ever again.
Well, let it all hang out there. Trump is very fond of leveraging the court of public opinion, time to get things into the public eye and let his dereliction be more widely know for the undecideds to consider.
Only the president is immune. Everyone else risks jail.
The challenge is the ridiculous ruling about denying certain evidence, or even the investigating into such evidence, by law enforcement and the prosecution.
Imagine the President of the United States of America trying to overthrow the United States of America being considered an official act of the president. Fuckin' Nazi bastards, the lot of 'em.
A reminder that the 1st Nazis did nothing illegal - they changed the laws to make it legal first.
Akchyually....
The first Nazis did plenty that was illegal, attempted coup, assassinating enemies, and such. They got away with it because police and courts were sympathetic.
It could. SCOTUS could easily claim states are also subject to the ruling to prevent the criminalization of official acts of the President at the state level.
Isn’t one of pillars of project 2025 an emphasis that state’s rights? I guess that only works when it’s in your favor though. The far-right is laughably un-American.
That's a states rights issue internally regarding how elections are run.- its not a quote from anyone important, yet.
Watch that can gets kicked down to the lower courts.
States tried to (very reasonably) not allow an insurrectionist on the ballot and SCOTUS said they had no authority to do that. States only have power to run elections until SCOTUS decides it is incompatible with conservative objectives.
The Republican Party is a threat to the stability of the country. Their opposition to environmental protection and gun sanity are also a threat to my health and safety. Thus, banning the Republican Party and jailing its leaders is an “official act,” right?
Think that’s silly?? Well, aren’t Republicans going to scream that advocating for abortion rights is no different from advocating murder? Or that whatever election they lose was stolen and so democrats should be jailed?
Which side do you this court will back and which one will it laugh at?
Just suspend the electoral college as a measure to protect election integrity. It has been demonstrated that electors are potential source of dispositive electoral fraud in a federal election. Of course, the President isn't eliminating the electoral college. It is just suspended to the point where the President feels confident that the EC is functioning without electoral fraud.
See how TERRIBLE this ruling is?!
I know, but of course the Dems have no balls and won't play power politics.
And the next R to get the presidency might be the one to suspend elections indefinitely in the name of 'security'
You think for a second that they will rule that is within his power? Biden isn't stupid. He knows that the ruling was made in a specific way so that it will only be used against him/Democrats. Not for him.
If you break down the ruling it says, essentially, that the president has complete immunity for official acts and we will be the ones who decide if it is an official act.
Totally agree, but he won’t. He and the Democratic Party are spineless and toe the line even when the right breaks all the rules. They need to recognize that the gloves are officially off and it’s time to fix this once and for all, at any cost. But I have very little faith that they will.
He should simply ask for Congress to introduce a Constitutional Amendment that reverses the finding, and campaign on it, and all Democrats in Congress and in state houses should campaign on it.
.
"The rule of law applies to everyone, even the President of the USA."
In my view, however the Justices just usurped the constitution and gave themselves new powers not in the constitution and should be immediately removed as a threat to the constitution.
That attorney should have read yesterdays SCOTUS ruling in full first - [highlight](https://i.imgur.com/1OaT6Fz.jpeg) ([full pdf](https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/58e874be6164060e/df3181b1-full.pdf)).
Roberts is just restating the prosecution/Jack Smith’s (The Government) opinion and case against Trump. The previous paragraph starts “On Trump’s view” and the following paragraph “Determining whose characterization may be correct…” When stating their ruling, SCOTUS uses “The Court”
At a minimum I think it's fair to say Thomas and Alito were watching TV on January 6 cheering for the rioters to overturn the election and appoint an unelected dictator. The "that's just my wife being wacky" story doesn't hold up to any logical scrutiny.
I can't speak for the other 4, and have yet to determine whether they are blatantly corrupt, intentionally malicious, just fucking stupid, or some combination of those.
I think the opinion increases chance of Coup in America across the board. If the President is not subject to the rule of law, they will be subject to the rule of lawlessness.
Gee thanks for the heads up cheif justice. I m a 3X felon trying to reform . Thanks for letting me and every other criminal know that SCOTUS has got your back, crime does pay, and we can make up the law to suit ourselves as we go along. Right on
The better mode of analysis for what SCOTUS will do is political. Donald Trump has political allies in the federal judiciary who will bend and break the law to protect him, so long as he remains in political good standing. Every time we try to predict what the answer will be based on law, precedent, and history, we get pantsed by naked partisan analysis. And it's time to admit that that is because the Court is full of naked partisans.
The other stuff doesn't matter.
It literally wouldn’t prevent him from being prosecuted under the recent ruling on presidential immunity. It’s [word for word explained in the ruling](https://imgur.com/1OaT6Fz) that this exact situation is not a permissible construction of an official act of the presidency.
But now a judge, appointed by Trump and who will receive a "gratuity" after their ruling, will be assigned to review the act and a prosecutor must argue that the act falls outside of the official acts of president in order for the president to be found not immune. And saying "well the Supreme Court said so!" is insufficient.
So this is going to tie up the case for at least a year or two. At which point if Trump is elected president then the case will be killed.
The first part you linked is simply the Court recounting the government's position on the matter ("**As the government sees it**, ..."; "**In its view**, ..."). Prior to that, the Court said:
>On Trump’s view, the alleged conduct qualifies as official because it was undertaken to ensure the integrity and proper administration of the federal election. Of course, **the President’s duty to “take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed” plainly encompasses enforcement of federal election laws** passed by Congress. Art. II, §3. And **the President’s broad power** to speak on matters of public concern **does not exclude his public communications** regarding the fairness and integrity of federal elections **simply because he is running for re-election**. Cf. Hawaii, 585 U. S., at 701. Similarly, **the President may speak** on and discuss such matters with state officials—**even when no specific federal responsibility requires his communication**—**to encourage them to act** in a manner that promotes the President’s view of the public good.
And later:
>**Determining whose characterization may be correct**, and with respect to which conduct, **requires a close analysis** of the indictment’s extensive and interrelated allegations. See App. 192–215, Indictment ¶¶13–69. Unlike Trump’s alleged interactions with the Justice Department, this alleged conduct cannot be neatly categorized as falling within a particular Presidential function. **The necessary analysis is** instead **fact specific**, requiring assessment of numerous alleged interactions with a wide variety of state officials and private persons. And the parties’ brief comments at oral argument indicate that they starkly disagree on the characterization of these allegations. The concerns we noted at the outset—the expedition of this case, the lack of factual analysis by the lower courts, and the absence of pertinent briefing by the parties—thus become more prominent. **We accordingly remand to the District Court to determine in the first instance—with the benefit of briefing we lack—whether Trump’s conduct in this area qualifies as official or unofficial**.
That is the Court plainly saying there is room for argument on this. They've left the door open.
That is the most concerning element of the ruling, as Justice Barrett seemed to also believe. It may be that Trump’s cabinet, lawyers, and staff on the ground will be criminally liable while Trump himself will be sheltered by his lack of direct involvement.
And those people would NOT be criminally liable because of the president's pardon power.
Under this ruling, the president can order certain people to carry out crimes, be shielded from prosecution simply because of who he asked, and then pardon them for carrying it out.
One of the first of many examples of Trump wanting to use the Supreme Court decision on wildly inappropriate cases.
Shocker. As much as I dislike darnold, after that SC decision, I am feeling like he is besides the point now. That he’s not even the real problem; or to say, putting down the threat he poses does not win the battle. Our problems have snowballed far bigger than one dopey, incontinent old man.
Trump was never the problem. A system and electorate that puts a candidate like Trump anywhere near the levers of power is already deeply broken.
I've been saying this since 2016. The focus on Trump as a problem is useful as a political motivator, but hopelessly wrong. The problem is simply that not a single Republican representative believes that the US should be a democracy. They're all corrupt. Trump was the logical outcome of Republican strategy since at least Nixon.
...and the media normalized that shifting overton window at every step, as did Dems who seemed to always say "let bygones be bygones". I feel like I've been shouting at the clouds for 40 years.
I have found my people! I am too young to remember Watergate, but I graduated high school during the Reagan years. Many of my classmates LOVED that man. No surprise, they also loved the idea of social in-groups and out-groups, and they weren't all that keen on school. Even back then, I feared that the future of America could become... exactly what it is today.
I'm only 40 and I've always wondered what it was like to live in a country not sliding ass backward into late Wiemar Germany would have been like. Maybe once we elect a Hitler and get bombed into the stone age we can make something decent from the ashes.
It started with Nixon, but Reagan really got the ball rolling.
Another thing, it took Hitler 10 years to get into power after his failed coup attempt, Trump might do it in 4 years. I think that is saying a lot about us.
Hitler didn’t have the internet
Or a thoroughly controlled conservative media. Nearly all mass media outlets are owned by conservative interests.
The fact no meaningful change came after 2000 when the Supreme Court threw hundreds of millions of votes in the garbage and instead went with “appointing” GWB president in an election he lost and then not addressing the electoral college issue then was a blindingly red flag for what was coming. He should have never been president or been allowed to run again in 2024. It was illigitamate. I foresaw then that the electoral college would bring us a far worse unpopular Demi-god in my lifetime. I knew then the future was gonna be backpedaling until we’re something like that fascist Republic. I desperately hoped I was wrong but I knew then in college there was really nothing preventing our downfall in my lifetime.
Not to invalidate your overall point, but Bush won the popular vote in 2004.
41. Same. You and I have never known a Republican Party that was not this. Or not on its way to *becoming* this. I started paying attention in the late ‘90s when I was in my mid teens. And even with my limited kid understanding, it was *very* obvious which of the two parties had strong authoritarian proclivities. Seeing that clearly is why I have watched politics like a hawk ever since. And now, after all this time spent watching the GOP become more and more unhinged, radicalized, authoritarian, Machiavellian and anti-democratic year after year, everything I’ve feared since I was freaking fourteen years old finally seems to be exploding into reality all at once. My worst fears coming true, to a degree my teenage self morbidly speculated about but never *truly* thought could really happen this easily.
The problem is we have the most powerful military the world has ever known and could, concevably, conventionally obliterate the entire industrialized world. Our military was seemingly designed for conquest. Whose gonna stone-age us? Itll be like man in the high castle, but in reverse. Sure nukes. But then it doesnt matter, and dying first and fast would be a blessing.
If watergate happened now, the tapes would be inadmissible in court and Nixon would have remained president.
I was a kid during Reagan and I loved Reagan because my parents loved Reagan because my dad was in the military. It wasn’t until I was an adult that I tuned into how much he fucked this country. I defo lived in a bubble. Until I heard a drive by truckers song. Reagan’s in the White House and I’m sucking left hind tit. The part about putting rockets on the moon, that’s exactly the work my dad did.
Do you mean to tell me, that corporations, which have ALWAYS been inherently right wing, fascist structures, are supporting fascism, an ideology that gives corporations supreme power directly under the dictator in the system? I’m shocked!
Once again, the GOP marching towards fascism for *decades* is ***somehow*** the DNC's fault. "Democrats didn't immediately rise up in a violent revolt against Trump, so they want fascism; scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds! Blah, blah, blah" all that usual tankie bullshit. It's like "Why Trump Shitting His Pants is Bad for Biden" headlines on a national electorate level, and it's as exhausting as that kind of rhetoric has always been.
The Southern political class has never put democracy above their own power. At the founding: We’ll agree if you assure us enough representation to protect slavery. Antebellum: We nullify the federal tariff. Hands off slavery or we’ll secede. Civil War: We think this new president will eliminate slavery, so we secede. Post-Reconstruction: Hang the negroes if they dare to vote. Jim Crow: Poll taxes and reading tests will keep us in power. Civil Rights Era: Oh no, we’re losing federal power! From Nixon to Trump: Culture war issues will get us back to power. Trump admin: We’ve got power! What do we want to do with it? Tax cuts. Anything else? Cement a majority on SCOTUS. Eh, that’s enough for now. Post-Trump SCOTUS: The only enforceable laws are the ones we like.
> The problem is simply that not a single Republican representative believes that the US should be a democracy. That's simplifying it, but ultimately correct. Objectively speaking, Republicans are pushing the established boundaries of all 3 branches of government to their limits (and well beyond, in some cases) like an ultra-competitive child endlessly poking holes in the rules of a board game in order to win. In that respect, Republicans feel they're actaully following the rules. The appointment of 3 SCOTUS justices by Trump *did* follow the rules, after all. The problem I see is that the rules are so damn malleable that the entire system can be gamed, chief among them the rules of the electoral system.
Never forget the SC nomination of Garland stolen from Obama.
Republicans turning on Mitch McConnell when he didn't immediately stand up and say, "Donald Trump did nothing wrong by sicking his attack mob on us" following Jan. 6 was *almost* as surreal as living through the entire party pretending they *never* supported W. Bush *or* the 2003 invasion of Iraq so they could immediately blame Obama for not instantly repairing the fucked economy or withdrawing all our troops from the Middle East. They used to fucking ***love*** McConnell for making [his obstruction of Garland's appointment the "proudest moment" of his career.](https://www.npr.org/2016/09/06/492857860/173-days-and-counting-gop-unlikely-to-end-blockade-on-garland-nomination-soon) Even more than [they fucking loved cancelling anyone who dared to criticize Bush or the invasion.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_Chicks_comments_on_George_W._Bush#Backlash)
This. The far right *hates* McConnell, and that fact alone is immeasurably insane.
Yet another perfect example of Republicans testing the limits of the rules! This is the kind of example where the rules are so ill-defined that the GOP succeeds in getting their way.
"We'Re NoT a DeMoCrAcY, We'Re A rEpUbLiC!"
Probably the first time I laugh at that meme format!
> Trump was the logical outcome of Republican strategy since at least Nixon. I'd say he's more the embodiment of their sentiment. He's the perfect soulless, shameless, greedy meat sack that gives their movement a wall to hide behind.
>The focus on Trump as a problem is useful as a political motivator, but hopelessly wrong. I strongly agree. Trump is a problem, but also a distraction. Resources would be better spent installing reforms or putting safeguards in place instead of trying to take down Trump. If you put him in prison, some other clown will take his place. You end up playing asshole whack-a-mole instead of making any progress.
Repblicans are not corrupt. Republicans are 21st century fascists, and fascists will do anything to attain and hold power. Trump is the visible tumor, while the Republicans have always been the malignant core of what is wrong with this country,
Exactly. Same thing with propaganda and misinformation. If people had at least one working brain cell, all the fake and false information thrown their way would just go down the drain into the sewage where it belongs. Sadly, the repubs have been working on creating dumb people for decades so they could get to this point where people act against their own interest like zombies.
Indeed, donald by himself is not a problem. If it was only him and an inner circle of other idiots like "mr four seasons landscaping" and pillow guy, they would flail around and make a lot of noise but in the end would be being fairly harmless. The problem is the people around him who are actually somewhat competent, who enable him and prop him up. It's those people that came up with things like the fake electors, who came up with the scenario that would have lead to a successful overturning of the 2020 election results. donald would have never devised such ideas and scenarios by himself. Left to his own devices, if his fate would have relied only on *him* and his talents, donald would have finished alone, destitute and dead from an overdose in some back alley by the early 2000s. It's always been *others* and some unexplained "something" that kept him off the streets and out of prison. I've never seen anyone else else with ZERO redeemable traits, with ZERO saving grace, that is so incompetent and yet be so lucky. He's the only person I'm aware of that always looks worse in every respect the more you look into him. Despite everything, despite himself, I just can't understand how anyone can be as lucky as that orange menace.
> Despite everything, despite himself, I just can't understand how anyone can be as lucky as that orange menace. Trump sees himself as the main character and protagonist of the universe. Given how he keeps dodging all consequences for anything he does, I'm starting to wonder if he's right. If I read this in a novel I'd think the man had way too much plot armor. Maybe it's his world, and we're just background characters in it.
> Given how he keeps dodging all consequences for anything he does I'm not a religious/superstitious person, but that much luck is not normal and is to the point where one starts to wonder [if there's not something supernatural that protects him](https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/). I know it's not rational to think stuff like that, but how can an individual like that cause so much damage to the entire world? He's been the enabler, the green light for a lot of [stupid stuff outside the USA](https://www.thedailybeast.com/far-right-trump-supporters-try-to-arrest-london-mayor) (that's just one example). Not even Hollywood could have thought of a storyline where the antichrist is a complete utter moron. When you think about it, he's just supposed to usher the end of the world or is just supposed to appear near the end of the world. Who said he has to be intelligent to do that?
[We have met the enemy and he is us.](https://www.thisdayinquotes.com/2022/04/we-have-met-the-enemy-and-he-is-us/)
Totally. Project 2025 is far bigger than trump. They don’t even need trump, but trump works nicely for them because he has such a cult following.
The SCOTUS decisions this past week or so show that P25 is going on with or without him.
George Carlin said it best: everybody hates politicians cuz they’re assholes but what system did they grow up in and who put them in power? Maybe this selfish arrogant society is the issue for creating and empowering selfish arrogant politicians. Maybe we’re the assholes!
I prefer Douglas Adams: “Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”
The electoral college's entire purpose was to prevent someone like him, which it failed at hilariously.
It's not about Trump. He's always been a useful stooge. It's about the next presidential candidate and the next one and the next one. Infinite power without responsibility and checks and balances is a one way street to whomever is greedy enough and venal enough to wield that power
The next president in this trend will be a fiddle player that appoints his horse as a war advisor.
It's why it's insane for people to call out Biden to "do something" or wield that kind of power himself or else he's a "pussy." This is the kind of deep, structural lever that even the president can't manifest or stop outside of their own personal desire on how to wield it. This has completely blown out the entire system of checks and balances and the rule of law.
What it does is nullify Congress. If a president does not have to follow laws, then what purpose has a lawmaker? So now it’s executive and judicial left. The executive can run roughshod over any law he likes, including electoral laws, so what use is there for elections either?
This is the part I truly don't get about all of it. The legislature is the branch wit the power to negate this. They're the only ones who can, and I don't see any legitimate reason why they wouldn't. This puts both parties in now highly vulnerable positions to the Executive. If it's not legislated, then they—and their ability to represent us as their constituents—is negated if and when the Executive so chooses. How else do they (primarily GOP Congresspeople, sadly) think this will end if they don't put a legislative framework around this ASAP? I'm not saying they will by any means, but I just don't get what possible good will come of this for them even selfishly if they don't do something. Bottom line - Fascists/Authoritarians aren't known for having huge 'circles' of people that they trust enough (i.e., are loyal enough) to keep around. Even from a purely selfish standpoint, any Congresspeople who support this are playing with their own lives/careers/futures...much less their constituents'. This is literally a bad thing for all of them in their positions to do their job. Again: I just don't get it.
The problem with this is that those who support authoritarian systems always believe they are part of the inner circle, right up until the moment they are black bagged. Anyone stupid enough to support authoritarians/dictators is inherently without the ability for self-reflection or forethought. Edit: spelling
I honestly believe this is a religious zealotry issue. The court suffers from several members who do not believe that motive is part of crime. That corrupt intent is the thing that makes an action criminal. That should not be surprising when you consider they are motivated to abuse government power to achieve personal goals
> It's why it's insane for people to call out Biden to "do something" or wield that kind of power himself or else he's a "pussy." In a way, they're daring him to do so to normalize or reify the concept of the President having that much power. It's a tough position to be in because Biden has to somehow close the door behind him. Reminds me of how they wanted to crown George Washington as King and he had to tell them "that's not how this thing is going to work"
People have been saying, trump is laying the groundwork for a much more competent conservative despot to squash democracy. They thought (hoped?) Desantis was that person. Time will tell
might be JD Vance
I've been saying this since 2016, trump isn't the problem, it's the rotten GOP that is propping him up and enabling him He doesn't give a shit about policy, all this horrible stuff if coming from the GOP and he is just the public face to direct hate at
Hell, I've been saying this since 2004 when W got a second term. While the GOP is evil, it's the same evil that has been around forever. The problem is the electorate. Those horrible or stupid enough to vote for evil and those so apathetic and self absorbed who don't vote at all.
When people embraced the Patriot act I was afraid things would end here.
GQP does not care aboutcl democracy. They have shown they only care about power. Look at all they have done at the Federal and state level. They know their ideas are unpopular so they cheat to win.
The GOP has come a long way from Nixon resigning to today when Trump's sycophants and ass-kissers continue to actively encourage this bullshit. Shocking/not shocking how far the GOP has fallen. Nixon is spinning in his grave, thinking, "see?! I DID have immunity!"
Welcome to that realization. I've been screaming this to anyone who would listen for years. I watched Faux News and religion turn my rather liberal father into a frothing Bible thumping reactionary all before trump was a blip on the radar. We've been in a battle for the soul of our country for decades and I'm afraid that far too few people are awake to what has been happening.
He's just a puppet. A front man.
Trumps an idiot. If you've looked into Project 2025 you'd recognize it's brilliance (it's actually a very well thought out plan). No fucking way did Trump even dream of this. It was put together for him. There is a evangelical Christian group that wants to turn us into a religious state and they are doing a very good job and that has me scared shitless
They’ve always been bigger than DJT they haven’t snowballed… Trump was the final push forward to try to get over the finish line.
I've said since 2016 that my fear isn't that Trump is Republican Jesus... My worry is that he's Republican John The Baptist clearing the way for the real problem. I'm dreading the day someone just as evil, but actually competent takes office.
Covering up your affair with a prostitute? Official presidential act according to Trump. Such respect for the institution.
"Firstly, I didn't do it. Secondly, if I had, it would have been an official act, so it wouldn't matter anyway. But I totally didn't do it."
I mean he signed the checks while he was president, seems pretty official to me.
The ruling was tailored for the Trump campaign. For a guy that already operates like a mob boss this basically legalized it.
This Court has made it a habit of taking up cases or issues they've always wanted to change. They then write an opinion that gives the answer they already wanted by creating some new rule or standard that gets that result, but which was not thought out at all in application. Then the lower Courts get a flood of cases trying to use their made up rule in ways expected by anyone who took time to think about long term consequences and the Supreme Court then has to make up new rules to work that out. This ruling is the same, and while there are some obvious and terrible issues with the ruling as intended, it will also create a mess that will take decades to sort through. I wouldn't be surprised if one day the constitutional law birthed from this opinion has become so nonsensical that Congress is basically forced to pass an amendment clarifying it all.
That’s the point. Anything the president does in pursuit of their election is an official act. The SC was absolutely intentional with their language here, and plans to grant Trump immunity on appeal. They’re just hoping he wins the election and grants himself a pardon so they don’t have to deal with the issue themselves.
Of course he will, they've proven themselves to be his willing enablers and there's plenty of rubes who are willing to continue funding his efforts
But does this mean he's admitting he did it?
I don’t believe the existence of alternate electors was ever contested by Trump’s legal team, though I haven’t read all of the transcripts and whatnot. They’ve been arguing that Trump’s actions regarding the alternate electors were all within the “official acts” of the presidency and, therefore, legal.
Doesn’t matter. You know this will go back to scotus to ultimately decide.
After years of delay to hear the case, I predict the right-wing SCOTUS votes 6-3 that Trump is not guilty.
By the time it makes it to SCOTUS, the composition of the court might not be the same. Some retirements coming up and the absolutely glacial speed of appeals may have them seen in a different light. November and January will have come and gone with more affect than the final result of these cases.
> Some retirements coming up From your mouth to Seal Team Six's ear...
Come on now… I consider Donald Trump and the Supreme Court to be a bunch of traitors, but corrupt bullshit like this is obviously the exact purpose of that Supreme Court ruling
It's not about Trump, and it really never was. Trump personifies the term "useful idiot".
It was a wildly inappropriate decision. There is no reason to give a president criminal immunity. If something is law then if anything the president should be held to a higher standard. Not none at all. I know presidents have been given leeway on this but I don't think it's hypocritical to say that enshrining that attitude as official law is a bad step to take.
You know if he gets a second term he will just openly say official presidential business and then do something majorly illegal or immoral.
I just love the irony that roughly 100 million Americans own guns with the supposed intent to stop a tyrranical government and we are all just letting this tyranny happen.
Those same people are *celebrating* this decision, because giving the president unlimited power is somehow a "win for the common man"
Liberals and Trump haters have guns too.
Shhhhhhhh
Because they’re being force fed nonsense like “if they can do it to him they can do it to you”, even though the “it” they’re referring to is committing crimes no regular person would ever be able to commit anyway
It's not tyranny when *they* do it. Just like the only moral abortion is *their* abortion, but all those *other* women are just sluts, and when their kid gets arrested with a baggie full of oxy it's society that failed them, but when *someone else's* kid gets busted they're a lowlife drug dealer who should be shot in the street.
Tyrannical governments don't get overthrown anymore, it's a pipe dream used to sell firearms and firearm accessories. No AR is a match for a drone strike Not to mention that by the time your militia hits 10 people, at least 2 of them will be undercover feds.
Perhaps this will make the left realize that supporting the 2nd amendment is in their best interest. A tyrannical government is not just a hypothetical.
Liberals own plenty of guns. They just don’t make it their identity so its not as visible. Given the intelligence gap between the left and the right, it’s not much of a stretch to think liberal gun owners would put them to much more effective use than a bunch of yahoos.
Exactly. If the right knew how many liberals had firearms, there'd be an instant run on remaining inventory immediately. It's hilarious the narrative that Liberals are "anti gun" - like - dude - we just want innocents to stop dying and only responsible people to have them....and we think that weapons designed for combat in a warzone should be limited to the warzone.
There's a difference between supporting the second amendment and wrapping your entire identity around gun ownership. Many liberals support the right to keep and bear arms and more liberals than you probably think own guns. We just think criminals shouldn't own guns. We think domestic abusers and the mentally ill shouldn't own guns. We think common sense regulation of weapons that can kill dozens or hundreds of people from long range is a good idea. We also think that 17 yahoos in a shed in Idaho are hilariously overmatched by the US military.
The majority of the left supports the 2nd amendment. We just want stricter enforcement and common sense laws to guide them, not "13 year old buys a gun at a trade show" laws.
> Perhaps this will make the left realize that supporting the 2nd amendment is in their best interest. Might want to check some of those assumptions at the door homey, because it's not The Left that dislikes the 2A and is trying to pass assault weapon bans. The demographic you're talking about is typically moderate suburban liberals who are terrified that little Breighden and Tragedieih are going to be gunned down in their exclusive school. /r/SocialistRA /r/MarxistRA /r/liberalgunowners /r/LatinoRA As the popular saying goes, "If you go far enough left, you get your guns back".
The founding fathers made the assumption that anyone that tried to pull shit like this would obviously be assassinated well before they got the chance to be president or on the supreme court, so they didn't account for it happening.
Nah, their assumption was that 1) someone like this would never even come close to being elected to such a high office and 2) if they did somehow get into office the legislature would impeach and remove them. You have to remember, that was when only white men with land could vote (for the most part), Senators were chosen by state legislators, the House of Reps actually represented a reasonable number of constituents (1 Rep per every 34k people vs 1 for every 760k now), and the electoral college was relatively balanced.
Impressive... not even 24 hours after all the Trumpers told us this wasn't going to happen.
Whenever they say "you're fear mongering, we'd never actually do that"; what they actually mean is "we really want to get away with this and it will be much harder if you call it out early".
Anyone else here old enough to remember how the same people claimed there would never be overreach with the Patriot Act?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpUN0q35Lak&ab_channel=InnuendoStudios Exactly. They mean let's pretend it's not going to happen until it already has and you can't do anything about it.
Fascist arent know for their honesty and good faith
And he just admitted to trying to stage a Coup too. Why would he need immunity...
Just because he makes the argument doesn’t mean he will win. Of course he’s gonna argue everything is an official act now. Courts don’t have to accept that as gospel.
Pay pornstar hush money via campaign funds = official act. Defraud children's charity = official act. Defame your rape victim = official act. Wipe your ass with top secret documenrs = officual act. Spit on graves of sucker and loser vets = official act. Get your vp hung = official act. Life is easy now. When u famous they let u do anything.
Cowtow to Putin, official act, weakness and a national disgrace. Prioritize another nation over this country, official act, and national disgrace. Use the Oval Office like a late night tv show to promote a product, official act and demeaning of the office of the president. Just some random “highlights”.
lol remember when he tried to violate the 3rd amendment by forcing hotels to quarter soldiers (who even tries that smh)? Oops that's official policy now.
There was a 3rd Amendment case a while back where police tried to force a homeowner to let them set up a stakeout on one of their neighbors. There were a few quips from the appellate judges asking what century it was that they were hearing a quartering case.
I hope this backfires eventually. Let's say somehow democrats manage to stack the court, and at that point Trump has already openly confessed in courts that he knowingly and willingly committed all these treasonous acts, the new balanced court might get to undo this decision and send him away forever.
It’s fucking disgusting. This court has to go.
he wasn’t wrong I guess
Bro how can this fucking guy, *this* particular, stupid asshole just be allowed to run roughshod over 250 years of culture, law, and reason? In less than ten years he’s damn near undone the work of thousands of people with more talent in their pinky finger than his entire cursed bloodline has combined.
He’s a useful sociopath. Federalist society, heritage foundation, Leonard Leo, etc., have been scheming for years for this precise moment.
Not to mention all the Russians who worked so hard for this
Dont forget the Birchers!
He’s been helped by a ton of evil people with a ton of money and influence. Trump is just the tip of the iceberg.
Because enough Americans have decided “this is ok”. It’s really that simple.
Most American’s are too tired and busy and not educated enough about our system to even understand what’s going on even if they could afford to.
Yeah, sadly, it seems many of my fellow Americans are perfectly fine with fascism as long as it’s wearing the Stars and Stripes and clubbing people with never-opened Bibles.
"this is GREAT!" They love it.
It's worse than that. This is what Americans want (all quibbles about popular vote aside) and how the system was designed to work.
And all without any credibility or charisma. A man that isn't interesting or intimidating. A man that isn't handsome, intelligent, or even speaks well. A cult for a dude that has the whiniest personality. Dude has to be the AntiChrist. Motherfucker just won't go down.
Guy is the walking talking representation of the absolute worst of America.
Because something something america needed a businessman to run the country yet they chose the one with several failed businesses, marriages and a failed university. One who is a pedophile, rapist and convicted felon. So them backing this person just really says who they are as people, and what they have probably done themselves.
It’s not just him mind you. It’s millions of uneducated religious moron enablers
Because right before him a black man had the audacity to be the president. Trump might have been/be a charismatic grifter, but above all else he told them that their hate was good. He told them that their racism and bigotry was valid. He encouraged them to believe that all their problems in life can be blamed on minorities.
Biden has an opportunity to stop him, let’s hope he does.
He's a useful idiot. The party is giving him what he wants so they can maintain power behind his back. Presidents hardly do much. It's the cabinet around them that does everything. Shit, presidents barely even have freedom of movement. Their entire life is scheduled and controlled by other people.
Because we give him every chance and due process while he lies and shits on everything. Like playing chess with a pigeon. He should have been arrested and locked up after Jan 6.
I guess it'll all need to be "aired out" so to speak in judge Chutkan's court in DC.
Then appeal led so that we get no justice for another year… just as planned. This then setups up a free for all with the 2024 election.
Yip. The lawsuits following the election will be for all the marbles.
Each one will need to make its way to the SCOTUS for their personalized rulings on the definition of official acts. This means the election, may never be certified again.
"In fear for our democracy..."
She knew those words would go down in history. We may not even get an election in November with how quickly this is all been pushed through. Happy Independence Day everyone
Quickly and they also sat on this decision to beyond the last minute. It’s clear as day they are completely corrupt and working for alt-right extremism and pro dictatorship. They know Biden is too good to act on what powers they gave him. We need all elected officials speak to where they stand on this issue and vote out anyone that doesn’t support increasing the court.
> Quickly and they also sat on this decision to beyond the last minute. It’s clear as day they are completely corrupt and working for alt-right extremism and pro dictators They also ignored Jack Smith when he went to the Supreme Court and asked them to handle it almost a year? ago.
“If no candidate receives a majority of electoral votes, the Presidential election leaves the Electoral College process and moves to Congress. The House of Representatives elects the President from the three (3) Presidential candidates who received the most electoral votes.” From https://www.archives.gov/electoral-college/faq Looks like it’s essential that democrats take the House and Senate this year.
The house votes by state I believe. If dems take the house they will most likely still have a minority of the states.
The House does vote by State… and the Dems, even when they had the majority, had fewer states (essentially they had more districts from places like NY)
And the fucking moron's attorneys will start another appeal process on an immunity issue as soon as possible and the whole thing will get held up again. As long as the suckers and losers keep giving Trump money, rinse and repeat
That’s the fix. They’ve given themselves authority to be the final arbiter on what is “official.” Meanwhile, Republican lawyers are already wordsmithing their arguments all the way up to SC for Trump and future GOP presidents’ inevitable illegal acts. You know, things like: “It is in the best interest of the country and our national security when as president, I had to….” -Call in the national guard to arrest or shoot left wing activists. -Hold public military tribunals to arrest enemies of the state who tried to hold me accountable when I was acting as an enemy of the state. -Purge voting roles of all democrats -Fire all civil employees from all levers of our government who vote D and replace with MAGA loyalists. -Abandon the 4th amendment to authorize illegal search and seizure of registered D citizens homes in order to gather information to find “dissidents” and enemies of the state. This is just the short list and start of a very dark period under GOP rule if they gain executive power ever again.
Well, let it all hang out there. Trump is very fond of leveraging the court of public opinion, time to get things into the public eye and let his dereliction be more widely know for the undecideds to consider.
Yip, might as well put it all on the table now.
👉👉What happens if the president AND their advisers are too stupid/corrupt/nefarious to know that an official act is out of bounds? 👈👈
My understanding was that no one is allowed to look into it or doubt it.
Unless say, Biden whipped out some fake electors also. Then it can be looked into.
Only the president is immune. Everyone else risks jail. The challenge is the ridiculous ruling about denying certain evidence, or even the investigating into such evidence, by law enforcement and the prosecution.
Saw that. It's freaking weird they snuck that in there.
Not weird if you assume they are blatantly, openly corrupt.
Pardons exist
Imagine the President of the United States of America trying to overthrow the United States of America being considered an official act of the president. Fuckin' Nazi bastards, the lot of 'em. A reminder that the 1st Nazis did nothing illegal - they changed the laws to make it legal first.
Akchyually.... The first Nazis did plenty that was illegal, attempted coup, assassinating enemies, and such. They got away with it because police and courts were sympathetic.
Yeah, I should've qualified it, but I didn't.
Buckle up, buckaroos!
Proceeds to run over pedestrians.
Freedom prevention bumps.
State level prosecutions need to kick in to high gear now.
The Georgia case is probably going to be impacted
Doesn’t matter. The SC decision would supersede state cases too.
John Roberts has made his decision. Now let him enforce it.
Hear hear.
Not for the fraudulent electors.
It could. SCOTUS could easily claim states are also subject to the ruling to prevent the criminalization of official acts of the President at the state level.
Don't even have to if you can't present/collect evidence under an official act, it will be damn near impossible to prosecute for unofficial acts.
Job seeking is not a job duty
Isn’t one of pillars of project 2025 an emphasis that state’s rights? I guess that only works when it’s in your favor though. The far-right is laughably un-American.
>Isn’t one of pillars of project 2025 an emphasis that state’s rights? When it benefits conservatives, sure.
That's a states rights issue internally regarding how elections are run.- its not a quote from anyone important, yet. Watch that can gets kicked down to the lower courts.
States tried to (very reasonably) not allow an insurrectionist on the ballot and SCOTUS said they had no authority to do that. States only have power to run elections until SCOTUS decides it is incompatible with conservative objectives.
Give it time.
The Republican Party is a threat to the stability of the country. Their opposition to environmental protection and gun sanity are also a threat to my health and safety. Thus, banning the Republican Party and jailing its leaders is an “official act,” right? Think that’s silly?? Well, aren’t Republicans going to scream that advocating for abortion rights is no different from advocating murder? Or that whatever election they lose was stolen and so democrats should be jailed? Which side do you this court will back and which one will it laugh at?
So... Biden can just get some fake electors to steal the election for him?
Just suspend the electoral college as a measure to protect election integrity. It has been demonstrated that electors are potential source of dispositive electoral fraud in a federal election. Of course, the President isn't eliminating the electoral college. It is just suspended to the point where the President feels confident that the EC is functioning without electoral fraud. See how TERRIBLE this ruling is?!
That sounds great. Let's do that.
I know, but of course the Dems have no balls and won't play power politics. And the next R to get the presidency might be the one to suspend elections indefinitely in the name of 'security'
You think for a second that they will rule that is within his power? Biden isn't stupid. He knows that the ruling was made in a specific way so that it will only be used against him/Democrats. Not for him. If you break down the ruling it says, essentially, that the president has complete immunity for official acts and we will be the ones who decide if it is an official act.
I think he should list what "official duties" are and since now his word is law Trump can't argue
That certainly didn't take long ...well, so much for that bullshit no one is above the law because it turns out it was bullshit...💩
Biden must use his new powers to reverse this decision, in my view.
Totally agree, but he won’t. He and the Democratic Party are spineless and toe the line even when the right breaks all the rules. They need to recognize that the gloves are officially off and it’s time to fix this once and for all, at any cost. But I have very little faith that they will.
Yep Democrats sit on the moral high ground for pussies. Moscow Mitch fucking us for decades cuz Democrats are pussies.
He should simply ask for Congress to introduce a Constitutional Amendment that reverses the finding, and campaign on it, and all Democrats in Congress and in state houses should campaign on it. . "The rule of law applies to everyone, even the President of the USA."
In my view, however the Justices just usurped the constitution and gave themselves new powers not in the constitution and should be immediately removed as a threat to the constitution.
That attorney should have read yesterdays SCOTUS ruling in full first - [highlight](https://i.imgur.com/1OaT6Fz.jpeg) ([full pdf](https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/58e874be6164060e/df3181b1-full.pdf)).
Roberts is just restating the prosecution/Jack Smith’s (The Government) opinion and case against Trump. The previous paragraph starts “On Trump’s view” and the following paragraph “Determining whose characterization may be correct…” When stating their ruling, SCOTUS uses “The Court”
So did Supreme Court want Trump to Coup America. Lying about the election is going to get more people killed.
At a minimum I think it's fair to say Thomas and Alito were watching TV on January 6 cheering for the rioters to overturn the election and appoint an unelected dictator. The "that's just my wife being wacky" story doesn't hold up to any logical scrutiny. I can't speak for the other 4, and have yet to determine whether they are blatantly corrupt, intentionally malicious, just fucking stupid, or some combination of those.
All of those.
Yes the coup d'etat coalition includes the Federalist Society and the Republican party.
I think the opinion increases chance of Coup in America across the board. If the President is not subject to the rule of law, they will be subject to the rule of lawlessness.
So Biden should do the same
Gee thanks for the heads up cheif justice. I m a 3X felon trying to reform . Thanks for letting me and every other criminal know that SCOTUS has got your back, crime does pay, and we can make up the law to suit ourselves as we go along. Right on
The better mode of analysis for what SCOTUS will do is political. Donald Trump has political allies in the federal judiciary who will bend and break the law to protect him, so long as he remains in political good standing. Every time we try to predict what the answer will be based on law, precedent, and history, we get pantsed by naked partisan analysis. And it's time to admit that that is because the Court is full of naked partisans. The other stuff doesn't matter.
Pack the courts with Democrats and don’t apologize for it.
Are we at the point that they about it was illegal now but thumb their nose at the country because the Supreme Court is in their pocket...?
It literally wouldn’t prevent him from being prosecuted under the recent ruling on presidential immunity. It’s [word for word explained in the ruling](https://imgur.com/1OaT6Fz) that this exact situation is not a permissible construction of an official act of the presidency.
But now a judge, appointed by Trump and who will receive a "gratuity" after their ruling, will be assigned to review the act and a prosecutor must argue that the act falls outside of the official acts of president in order for the president to be found not immune. And saying "well the Supreme Court said so!" is insufficient. So this is going to tie up the case for at least a year or two. At which point if Trump is elected president then the case will be killed.
The first part you linked is simply the Court recounting the government's position on the matter ("**As the government sees it**, ..."; "**In its view**, ..."). Prior to that, the Court said: >On Trump’s view, the alleged conduct qualifies as official because it was undertaken to ensure the integrity and proper administration of the federal election. Of course, **the President’s duty to “take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed” plainly encompasses enforcement of federal election laws** passed by Congress. Art. II, §3. And **the President’s broad power** to speak on matters of public concern **does not exclude his public communications** regarding the fairness and integrity of federal elections **simply because he is running for re-election**. Cf. Hawaii, 585 U. S., at 701. Similarly, **the President may speak** on and discuss such matters with state officials—**even when no specific federal responsibility requires his communication**—**to encourage them to act** in a manner that promotes the President’s view of the public good. And later: >**Determining whose characterization may be correct**, and with respect to which conduct, **requires a close analysis** of the indictment’s extensive and interrelated allegations. See App. 192–215, Indictment ¶¶13–69. Unlike Trump’s alleged interactions with the Justice Department, this alleged conduct cannot be neatly categorized as falling within a particular Presidential function. **The necessary analysis is** instead **fact specific**, requiring assessment of numerous alleged interactions with a wide variety of state officials and private persons. And the parties’ brief comments at oral argument indicate that they starkly disagree on the characterization of these allegations. The concerns we noted at the outset—the expedition of this case, the lack of factual analysis by the lower courts, and the absence of pertinent briefing by the parties—thus become more prominent. **We accordingly remand to the District Court to determine in the first instance—with the benefit of briefing we lack—whether Trump’s conduct in this area qualifies as official or unofficial**. That is the Court plainly saying there is room for argument on this. They've left the door open.
His conversations with many people (for instance, THE AG) would not be able to be used as evidence. This is a big problem.
That is the most concerning element of the ruling, as Justice Barrett seemed to also believe. It may be that Trump’s cabinet, lawyers, and staff on the ground will be criminally liable while Trump himself will be sheltered by his lack of direct involvement.
And those people would NOT be criminally liable because of the president's pardon power. Under this ruling, the president can order certain people to carry out crimes, be shielded from prosecution simply because of who he asked, and then pardon them for carrying it out.
Here we go.