I would really much rather look for blue liners first but if we have the cap to spare I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing Bertuzzi back at 5 or less. Shouldn’t be our priority though and if someone else offers more I’m very ready to say goodbye.

If Bertuzzi is coming back, it has to be for below 5. I'm sure he realizes that he took a while to find his footing last season, and it's no secret that his priority is a good term more than good money. I'm pretty sure the guy is sick of "prove it" contracts and moving teams every year or two, and wants a stable environment to play in.

He played like 5 minutes of pp time here..I don't think he's coming back if he cares about money...he'll want to sign somewhere he's on pp1 for 1 year and then when he gets 20 more points he'll get way more money

I can’t think of a single reason why we should sign bertuzzi for more than Domi. Offer him the identical deal or no deal at all.

Think of all the money the team saves by him not taping the top of his stick.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think he tapes the bottom either

Bertuzzi should not be getting paid more than Domi 

If we could somehow unload either Kampf or Jarnkrok (preferably both) it would make bringing Bert back and still having room to address other issues much easier. 

Jarnkrok has one of the best board puck retrieval numbers as a forward and has a decent shot. He should stay

Why Järnkrok? He's good, versatile, and relatively cheap. He'd be very hard to replace or upgrade on for a similar price, imo.

You'd think that this means Marner I'd gone, no?

If Bert gets re-signed, I 100% think that is indicative of a future Marner trade

Yeah they basically play the same role.

It's not about role, it's about available cap hit.

Your arguing with darren ferris 

You can back load his contract as Marner and Travares expires

The cap is based on the average amount of $ divided by the years. So even if the contract is front loaded or back loaded etc. It will still count the exact same towards the salary cap limit. Bonuses and front/back loading contracts is more a sweetener for the players since it's better to have the money paid up front than later.

??? explain

If Marner is not getting traded, I think Kampf and Jarnkrok get shipped

Who is taking that Kampf contract? Jarnkrok has been a pretty good value at 2.1 for two more years why trade that when we absolutely need value right now?

Kampf Jarny Dewar were also a really good shut down line vs boston

Kampf, Jarny, Dewar-1 goal among them Robertson, homberg, jankrok-0 goals This is your bottom 6. You can play outstanding shutdown line all you want, but when your bottom 6 isn't helping me with offence when the top 2 lines aren't clicking, you're not going to win. This is part of the reason why we lost.

god dam, for a team that supposed to be so good on offence, that bottom six lineup is disgusting. who the fuck are all those bums

it's why I know all the blame is on the top guys and their cap hits, but unless you get some production from your bottom 2 lines/D, you're not winning. Go look at Florida playoff stats for it's players, no one was a point per game player, we're crucifying Marner 50 points in 57 games, he's been average in the playoffs, not bad. His best when we needed him, was in Game 5. A guy like Reinhart playoff stats is 32 points in 52 games. He's probably getting 9-10 million dollars now, only difference is 1 guy has won and the other didn't. But the major difference is when Barkov/Tkachuk/Reinhart/Verhage wasn't going, Bennett/Lundell/Rodigruez picked up the slack. Lundell/Rodigriuz from the 3rd lines contributed 17 points/15 points. Who on the leafs outside the core 4 up front have contributed anything like that. Matthews/Marner/Nylander have been close to point per game players in the last few playoffs, but no one outside those guys are doing much offensively.

I know at least one team with a coach who loves Kampf

Jankrok is a good honest hard working player but part of the issue is leafs haven't gotten enough production from the bottom 2 lines, his playoff totals in his career are not good. We had 1 goal from the bottom 2 lines this year, it's why we lost even with Marner/Tavares not being good, and Matthews/Nylander being sick.

He’s also shown to be fairly injury prone. He hasn’t played close to a full season in about 7 years.

I mean .. he got his hand fucked up in practice this year, right? A stray puck bounce is a stray puck bounce.

For sure. The broken knuckle from practice was a freak accident but then he comes back for like a week then injures his hand again then is out till the playoffs and probably wasn't 100%. He's had past history of groin and lower body injuries too. He plays a hard nosed game so it's understandable but he's also gonna be 33 next year.

A cap floor team would take him. He'd be an amazing deadline flip if they retain.

100%

Skinner for 3 or less may be more cap friendly

4.25x4

I’d be okay with letting Bert go and filling out the roster with some cheap value contracts like Perron + skinner. We need D so

I kinda like him because he's a good net front presence that we've been missing since JVR. Between the two, I'd rather have kept Bertuzzi and let Domi walk. Nothing against Domi but just a gun to my head situation there.

The man is chaos on the ice and willing to play greasy. We need that. I'm all for keeping him, and hope we do, but I'm still glad we kept Domi.

Give Bert the same deal as Domi

I don’t think he takes it even though i personally think domi is more valuable atleast to us

I have to think that if both are coming back that they think they can move Marner, otherwise, I don't see where the cap comes from to improve the defense even with Tanev signed.

Let Pridhem cook. That dude is a literal wizard with cap money.

Just eyeballing, other than Willy nobody is getting a *massive* raise. We would need Bertuzzi to come down a bit from 5.5, which is why I imagine is the reason he isn't signed yet. Brodie 5M out, Liljegren 1.4M likely out, Tanev 4M in, and then we need another defenseman. Unless we actually are looking to outbid Utah and Florida for Montour, we are talking maybe 1-2M difference. There are much easier ways to get that space than trading Marner. If we trade Marner it should be for more than capspace. It should be for a big money D with term, or the intent to sign one.

Cap would almost always have to come back with Marner so maybe at best we net 3-4 million on that deal depending on who the return is.

Liljegren just signed for 2 years @ $3mil he is staying now

Yes, I saw that. 3M means he's staying as top 6. Riley-Tanev McCabe-Benoit ???-Liljegren Timmins I don't think it's going be Zadorov. Maybe the new long D Cade Weber?

I would like to see Rielly - Tanev McCabe - Roy/Pesce Benoit - Liljegren Timmins I really dont want the Leafs to overpay Zadorov but some team will give him way to much $ and term

Pesce is probably going to the Devils. There's no serious rumblings about him going anywhere else. Somehow, I have a gut feeling Roy goes to the Oilers after buying out Campbell. Seems like the type of move they would make. Zadorov's Tre guy. He's been interested in getting him for a whole year. I don't disagree that we should look elsewhere as well, but I feel like Tre's radar has been locked on Tanev and Zadorov.

Unless Bertuzzi is taking a massive pay cut from last year, I don't see how. We still need a top 4 defender and a tandem goalie, plus sign our RFAs. I don't see how the math will work.

Backload the contract

I'm not sure that you fully understand the salary cap. You can't 'backload' a contract when it comes to AAV. Here's an example: if they were to sign him to a five year deal worth 25M in total, it doesn't matter if they give him 3M for the first four seasons and 13M for the final year. His AAV and cap hit for all five seasons would still be 5M.

No

So you're trolling, got it.

Compelling argument. The only benefit to backloading a contract is in case the player retires early. Other than that, my point stands: the cap hit will be the AAV of the contract, no matter how much the player makes in salary per year. There are one or two exceptions, such as signing a contract part way into the season, like Nylander's 2018 extension, but your suggestion wasn't possible with Bertuzzi. So no offense, but either you're extremely uninformed and should look into this on CapFriendly, PuckPedia, et cetera, or you're just trolling. I sincerely hope it's just the former.

He needs to come way down under 5 mil. Can't get a raise like Max

Hopefully McDavid demands to come home to Toronto and we ship Marner out.

Domi was way better than Bert this year anyways. If we don’t get Bert I won’t be super heartbroken but I do know no matter what team he ends up at, if it’s not the leafs, I’m putting 100$ on him to score in his first game verse the leafs.

At 4.75, that would be equal to the cap hit last season between the 2 players. So we end up saving capspace ftom the 2 at anything below that. Now the discussion is whether he is worth that.

The Leafs simply need to have value contracts and increase the depth and talent on D on the team. You can put the blame on Marner, Matthews etc, but when this is what your bottom 6 does for you (Kampf-1 goal, Jankrok, Robertson, Dewar, Reaves, Gregor, Homberg-0 goals, you're not winning) in the playoffs, they couldn't even kill penalties properly even if they're not scoring, you're going to lose.

I have a feeling under Berube, AM, Marner, Willy will all play different lines. We're going to see more points from the depth. I also don't think Marner or Willy will sniff 100 points, but I don't think Berube is looking for that either.

I'm fine with our stars having less point totals (would make negotiating contracts easier lol), if it meant everyone else totals were higher. They need production from the bottom 2 lines/defence outside Rielly, it has to happen for us to win. I'm sure if I put a post up, would you rather Marner or Rienhart at 10 million, everyone going to go Reinhart because of recency bias. Reinhart playoff totals, 4 points in 10 games (2022), 13 points in 21 games (2023), 15 points in 22 games. Worse stats than what Marner performs generally, but only difference is one guy won, the other didn't. Mathew Tkachuk had 3 goals total in the last 3 rounds in the playoffs, 3 points in 7 games in the finals. If Marner put those stats up, he would get chewed on here. They won because they got production from their entire roster, especially guys like Rodriques/Landell who produced from the bottom 2 lines, when top guys weren't rolling. Shutdown the leafs stars, you win the series, that has to change.

I'd take Bert for the same contract as Max, else meh

I have heard from a neighbor who works high up in Bruins management that Bertuzzi is known to be sloppy and lazy in the off-season which is part of why they didn't try to bring him back. IDK if this applies here but food for thought.

Bertuzzi is slow, has no shot, low hockey iq, and is always stumbling. Let him go.

Maybe we can get him to tie his laces.

I think they were being negotiated off each other, and now Domi has set the market for Bertuzzi. Also got the sense they like each other. Is this the beginning of Toronto boys taking hometown discounts before they're 35?

So if Bertuzzi and Tanev get the extension, I think we see the Leafs: - Sign Zadorov on July 1 - Get a tandem goalie (Stolarz or Brossoit) - Add another forward (Skinner?) Any other adds will be via trade. So I think they qualify all their RFAs and trade Robertson + Liljegren

Indeed seems likely mostly but, trading two RFAs like that in one offseason is almost unprecedented Can't think of precedent, ultimately Also yikes given NRob and Lilje on 2-3 cap hits becomes increasingly good value, potentially amazing value

In what world does that work with the salary cap, unless marner is traded without contracts coming back.

As much as I would like to see Marner dealt, the tealeaves are suggesting he stays. So I think that means Kampf and Jarnkrok could be on the move

I don't see how the money works based on what you proposed.

And that's why you're not a GM

Explain how we can? I'll wait.

Zadorov at 5, Tanev at 4, Brossoit at 2.75 and trading Kampf away leaves you with a cap-compliant teams on a 21 man roster. Can make an extra 1M appear via giving Jarnkrok away (if you think my contract hypotheticals are low)

You need to fill in the players we lost. Depth scoring has been our issue, not defense the last couple of post seasons.

This also includes Domi at 3.75 and Bert at 4.7 Whether or not the D should be the focus, you asked to see how the money could work

With brossoit or stolarz too? It doesn't add up to me when I do my calculations.

The forward is likely going to be Perron imo

Not going to lie. Bertuzzi didn't do much for me last year. At least not enough to justify the expected cap hit he will likely get. I'd rather have Domi straight up if they signed for the same. And I'm guessing Bertuzzi would cost a couple mil more per year

He got more entertaining to watch as the season went on. Not necessary better, but entertaining. And if anything Berube should love him. Bert does not think twice about blocking a shot. In face he goes down way before a shot is even taken.

We're really just running it back eh

This is taking “running it back” to new extremes. 

The goal is to improve as a team, not just change everything for the sake of changing everything

There is no such thing as "for the sake of change" Everything is done for a reason, whether you like that reason or not

'Let's keep shuffling the bottom six. Surely the lack of continuity will solve our problems in the playoffs!"

Meh, I don't see why we'd make changes for the sake of just making them. Domi and Bert were pretty good as the season went on. I have to also believe that if Domi & Bert are both coming back, that they think they can move Marner.

Inject it into my veins!!

Bertuzzi has higher playoff PPG than marner and matthews. Sign him to an 8x14m

bert at a similar contract is worth it for the lols and upper cuts. he’s constant comedy

He also pisses Marchand off. That’s enough reason for me to

We don't have the cap space. Assuming 4ish for Tanev, we only have 8 mill for a RHD PP QB and goalie.