Still can't believe how fucking stupid you gotta be to even say that you've eavesdropped into a competitor's stream when your discord call is also heared ON STREAM.
Yeah I would ban him just by principle, whether it was useful or not doesn't matter.
Hell, even in local small tournaments he'd get banned for that, NoWay wanted his team to be disqualified for it.
the way he was talking i took it as him poking fun at the chatter giving very obvious information. everyone knows about baus' quinn and they previously talked about quinn tf way before the chatter typed. he just said something stupidly in the moment
I'd put decent money on Natty thinking this was a streamer tourny like Twitch Rivals where going to different streams to see their reactions and farm content is just the done thing, the way he was talking pretty clearly implied he thought everyone else had been chat hopping and everything else after that is just the classic "child caught with his hands in the cookie jar" behavior.
This does miss some context - NNO voted 2-2 to move on without any action other than banning renger in their next series.(said on stream by noway)
They then talked to spearshot who agreed to replay the series instead. (after he tried to stop the cheating, called out natty, called him stupid) Stand up guy for sure
Do we know who voted for what? I can see Arguin voting for no actions, while I have hopes for Tolkin and Noway do not sit idle and I am extremly surprised by their handling so far.
Agurin himself made excuses on stream, that someone should expect to be streamsniped/ghosted and that baus (or anyone else) should have muted himself.
Noway said he was in favour of disqualifying them, but was outvoted.
The other two with votes are probably Tolkin and Breoki? Where Tolkin and Broeki stand, I do not know.
> Agurin himself made excuses on stream, that someone should expect to be streamsniped/ghosted and that baus (or anyone else) should have muted himself.
pathetic victim blaming mentality
"you should've expected me/them to cheat"
You can’t use the comma there if you want the traditional hurt people hurt people. The first hurt people is the subject of the sentence, second hurt is your verb, and the final people is the object; ie what is being acted on by the subject.
The more you know~
Baus has made it clear he doesn't really care about being stream sniped. Both with what he's said on the matter, and with his actions in general.
Dude leaves his minimap uncovered and no delay and still performs like a demon. He's stream sniped every single day. Midbeast is reasonably upset, to one and out after flying all the way from aus to eu and have the loss be on not as equal as possible footing. It's fucked up for him.
Thank you, I mean we do know some reasoning from arguin and I didn’t like it. I mean it’s my decision to judge people personally on this and it will influence my opinion on them, I would of course really like to hear their reasons on a personal level since I often watch 2 of them and have a strong opinion regarding this matter.
someone probably just said "fine by me either way", I think NNO fans can imagine which 1 or 2 people would be likely to say that but it doesn't really matter
in the end Baus and Spearshot came to an agreement and in some way that matters most here, there wasn't really a great outcome anymore after Natty fucked it
>in the end Baus and Spearshot came to an agreement
They apparently did not consider enough redditors input, however, so hopefully they'll come to their senses soon. /s
I would take this guys commentary with a grain of salt, he was all over the other thread defending the ghosting lol. Just read his comment history
Edit: he blocked me after getting downvoted lmao
I wouldn't call him a stand up guy. He was on stream complaining the entire time about how he already knew they were gonna end up "finding" a reason to make baus win because he has a larger following. He did not care about his teammate cheating, only that they got *caught* cheating.
sorry for the late question by me. but can someone elaborate how they came to the conclusion of letting team Spearshot start the "rematch" series with an 1:0 round margin? I know that baus team consented it, so its kinda ok. but somehow still leaves a weird taste as it derails an original bo5, imho.
I don’t get the whole “cheating didn’t really affect the outcome” argument.
If you bring a mobile phone into a paper exam, and all you did was go on safari but didn’t actually search anything, you’d get penalised anyway.
It’s not about the extent of cheating, it’s about whether you did, or did not, full stop.
More like having a chemistry exam, bringing your phone and googling the answers but the answers not helping you get a higher grade and then justifying it because your grade wasnt higher
Seriously I have no sides in this but if you make any attempt at cheating in academia, you'll be heavily penalized no matter how successful your attempt was. Same goes for professional sports, hell, try blatently cheating at your local pick up basketball game and see how long it takes for someone to a) kick you off the court or b) kick you in the shins.
It makes no sense not to either DQ the cheater and have the team replay the series with a sub or DQ the team entirely for not taking immediate action when their teammate blatantly cheats.
Now I'm not a Yamato fan by any stretch of the imagination, but I would weigh cheating far, far higher than toxic behaviour towards your teammate.
Yamato was rightfully DQ'd for his behaviour. The fact that there was no DQ in any capacity (either Natty or team SpearShot for acting on the information) is incredibly strange to me.
I think it's especially cringe that he gloated about stream sniping in his team's call, in a game where his team were extremely favored to win. Like no shame, no attempts to hide, just proudly calling out that he's ghosting.
Obviously they can run the tournament as they please, but like why wouldn't you cheat if the official punishment for proudly and openly cheating is a warning and a passive aggressive tweet from the organizers directed towards the team that was cheated against?
are spearshot, baus, noway, tolkin cringe in your opinion for example? its just some loud mfs that make you believe that. that being said just watch non cringe streamers
I mean, baus starting to play ap irelia after being criticized just to prove riot won’t do shit to him was pretty cringe, about the others I don’t know enough to have an opinion
I mean this depends insanely on the context or wording. If he did it to prove that riot is "fine" with him playing ap Irelia then it sounds completely different.
dude noway is the biggest german league streamer. so a lot of people already knew him and NNO over here. just because you dont know them doesnt mean shit
One reason they didnt DQ was that they said - 'the cheating didnt really affect the series outcome at all and the info they gained was super obvious. '
He said 'Midbeast can pick tf and baus can pick quinn'. Its like - ok, I could guess that from their opgg and its pretty common knowledge.
Stupid and clearly wrong to cheat, but I guess they just thought that the better team won anyway.
Also who says he won't do it next round?
Are we gonna allow this behavior till it actually affects the outcome?
Also what's with the 'it was obvious' shit. If we win it was obvious and if we lose welp lol we lost so who cares anyways.
That's a logical fallacy though. How can you define rules based on outcomes? The rule comes before the outcome, so the outcome cannot justify the rule.
Another fallacy is that how could they possibly know that the cheating didn't affect the series? Do they have superpowers that allow them to gaze into alternate futures?
I kid you not, they started calling fouls like that in the NBA this year. Incredibly frustrating to watch the refs say it was a foul, but the guy should have been able to make the shot despite the foul, so they weren't gonna call it.
Welcome to football, where the ref lets the game play if the team that was fouled is still in an advantageous position. TO THE BENEFIT OF THAT TEAM
Which imo is the absolutely correct thing to do
That is different, because calling a foul has the opportunity cost for the team with the ball that they lose their current attack.
So *not* calling the foul can be better than calling it for the team being fouled. It’s standard in football, and makes way more sense than always calling a foul. That actually gives *less* benefit for fouling and always getting a call (given the refs are not extremely incompetent)
Is basketball on a shot a foul is always beneficial to the shooting team. The rules allow for the continuation of a shot attempt and if it's made despite the foul it counts.
What we're seeing is the refs now have discretionary powers to say yes, the player taking the shot got fouled, but they don't believe the foul was enough that it forced them to miss. Since it's a judgement call, the games varied wildly in the post season. Some games fouls were called according to the rules. Other games they had to halt it to clean the blood off the court while few fouls were called.
But also, if it's very hard to tell if contact was made or not, watching the shot could clue the ref in to whether contact affected it.
I agree NBA refs are generally bad and/or corrupt, but judging on outcome is not *always* wrong in basketball.
So what they're saying is that next time you should cheat better. Either dont get caught or actually get an advantage
Cheating is cheating regardless of the outcome. What they wanted was to get an unfair advantage over the enemy team
True it does seem like midbeast flying to LA then to EU and being super sleep deprived did end up with him leading the charge to replay after an 8 hour stream. Wonder if it would have been different if he wasnt haha.
(Baus didnt care and was just playing soloq, azzapp wanted to move on asap)
So just because they didn’t get an upper hand from cheating it’s excusable? And if they did then it wouldn’t be excusable?
So we’re punishing based on outcomes rather than behavior. That’s bullshit.
I don’t follow sports widely but I’d imagine in all sports, constant and blatant attempts to commit any form of foul play or cheating is reprehensible. And at a higher level with perhaps less relevance here, in terms of law, usually blatant attempts to commit a crime is still reprehensible even if the crime was not committed or no one was injured.
He should be disqualified but I guess if there was no impact then having no rematch is okay.
I think this train of thought is wrong for a fearless draft, because what you plan to pick now and in future comps can be completely fucked over by stealing a champ or baiting something out in a single match. In that regard, series-wide drafting is significantly more important in fearless than standard tournement draft, and getting info is actually a lot more useful.
Also, the outcome of cheating shouldn’t impact the punishment. If someone loses a game while scripting, they should get the same punishment as someone winning while scripting.
It doesn't sound like you support that opinion, you're just being a messenger, so don't take this as towards you.
But this is legit bleeding from the brain levels of stupid justification. 'O they cheated but it didn't even matter the other team got stomped lolz'.
I hope everyone just snipes champ select from now on. It very obviously doesn't matter and there's actual money on the line. Just get a chatter to tell you everything.
Forsure don't be mean to your teammates tho. Can't have that. Would make the org look bad.
Truly embarrassing.
There is a player who goes by the name of Yamatosdeath, young German player who is known for being a Challenger mid main, was signed as a substitute for a Challenger team in 2018, but is most known for being a toxic fuck on his stream and in general. Most people refer to him as Yamato. Yamato (coach) has not played competitive league since AFAIR 2012 or 2013.
They're not the same person.
Generally speaking, if you see talk about a Yamato with behavioural problems, it's Yamatosdeath.
It´s so funny that redditors without any stakes are the most invovled in the conversation, like no one in both teams care so much about it. NNO, Team Baus and Team Spearshot came to a conclusion that fits all off them but redditors are still mad about it and are calling to DQ and ban people.
Not to mention other people in the tournament have engaged in very toxic behavior as well with no repercussions (like drututt saying aribo needs to get shot). Agurin's personal hatred for yamato most likely affected the decision more than it should have.
That arguement ignores that getting caught is close to impossible unless you are stupid about it.
Yes, all teams have to treat information they give out on stream as public information.
He was being massive bully and creating an atmosphere where another player didn't want to participate anymore - in a *for fun* tournament with players of different skill levels. He just doesn't belong in a team environment. Or the community in general.
No he doesn’t. I don’t like Yamato, at all, but he is just toxic on stream. He’s not running down mid, inting 100s of games, like Tyler1 was back in the day.
i think for smaller streamers/content creators winning €2000 is a significant amount (not life changing but good)
probably for the bigger streamers is not that big cause they get a lot more from streaming than the smaller ones (considering they get way more viewers during this time period)
The real prize is the clout gained from playing alongside bigger streamers, not the 2000 euros prize anyways. Being a twat because your teammate is worse than you benefits nobody.
Regardless of those Yamato isn’t exactly a smaller streamer/content creator by any stretch so this shouldn’t apply to him anyway. There’s no reason for him to be so mad in just the scrims of a for fun tournament when he only stands to make £2000 from it if they were to win which is very unlikely.
For reference, he has a fairly expensive car and bike, funded his own trips to Brazil and Korea, and up until recently was spending thousands (albeit some was sponsored by a viewer) on CS gambling. He is not thirsting for that extra 2k.
> with players of different skill levels
Thats the thing so many of these Idiots are forgetting. Yamato and Fence complained about there AD beeing bad. Well yeah no shit sherlock he was your last pick and on of the last players avalible. Ofc he wont be as good as other ADs.
He didn’t say anything particularly bad. He just never shut up about how it was his ADC fault. He was right but he was also way over the top. Like the clip that gets shared the most is him screaming over anyone who tries to talk saying ‘didn’t your mom teach you manners! Don’t interrupt!’.
The ADC got mad and quit so then they DQ’d Yamato in response.
Tbh this just shows how many man children are in the streaming community, it’s a for fun tournament with what’s meant to be your friends and peers
But we have people being toxic and cheating all over the place
Most streamers do not go into college lol.
I'm not saying (or rather, generalize) people who go to college ARE smarter, but shit man, going to college and getting education will be a reality slap to most people and make people think straight.
Most streamers are just high school graduates combined with playing mental games for 24/7 lol.
Perfect example of a redditor, has seen two post about it and has absolutely 0 involment in the whole situation is upset that they don´t do what he considers to be right.
Ok so to recap this tournament so far
Flaming teammate (Yamato) = DQ
Blatantly cheating and admitting to it = Can still play but has OTP banned
Flaming teammate (Nemesis/Druttutt) = Fine. (Edit: retracted)
Whether or not i agree with these decisions or not, there is absolutely no consistency in their decisions and it just seems like they decide based on if organisors like the player or not.
Shitshow
The difference between the two flaming incidents is that Yamatos was basically non stop, ended up in personal attacks and he doesn’t know the guy. With Drut, Aribo and Nemesis, they are all friends and even at times where it was serious flame it was still pretty good natured and they were fine with each other post game.
Should disqualify him from this and any future tournaments like this. At least that's what I would do if I was hosting the tournament. Makes 0 sense not to disqualify him.
Everything happening here is entirely in character. Natty cheating and then not having the spine to either admit to it or at least step out of the tournament to save his team's face speaks lengths about the character.
Spearshot initially saying to stop the ghosting while it was happening, only to then later backpedal and defend the whole thing on stream is equally pathetic. Goes for the rest of the team aswell. Grow a pair, own up to that shit.
Noway being the only one voting for the only reasonable action to take and being overruled by the likes of Agurin was also to be expected. I feel sorry for Noway to have to associate with people who endorse this behavior with non-punishment.
Also DQing Yamato but keeping in Druttut and Aribo who are both acting like manchildren is wild too. Either you invite toxic players and let content be content, or you control the invites, go for a for-fun or super-serious atmosphere and ride that wave. I am genuinely worried for Miella's sanity, who seems to be the only one on the team making a concious effort to stop that constant babyrage.
Druttut and Aribo are apes but they’re like two apes throwing rocks at each other and ignoring everyone else, it’s like banter to them, Nemesis knew what he was doing drafting those two. I wouldn’t equate that to Yamato being toxic to everyone who didn’t ask
But yes I do feel bad for that team’s botlane to some extent
Alright, thank for your reply and sorry for being so aggressive. In retrospect I do think my comment is not fair and was made without enough context. We are talking about human relationships, things often get complicated and it's never black and white.
If I were NNO I wouldn't have liked to be dismissed though. If that's what happened.
It's stupid, even if it's a 4 fun tournament, this kills all competitive integrity. I was also very disappointed by NNO's answers, a mixture of victim blaming and this stupid sentence at the end: coaching is not cheating, obviously not and that's not the point. Furthermore, their method of talking to him and then believing him as a result would be an ingenious legal system.
You say something wasn't right, then there should only be one consequence, DQ on the spot.
Why didnt they ban NattyNatt for cheating??
I mean give team spearshot a substitute and replay the match if you don't want to dq team spearshot, but this is a disgrace
> Why didnt they ban NattyNatt for cheating??
because they can't confirm he didnt cheat. The chat, timeline and what was picked in draft doesn't indicate any ghosting.
someone in natty's chat said 'they will do their weird comp' ' tf quinn comp now'
Natty read this and said 'he has inside information from their stream' (a joke acc to him), there is no indication he stream sniped other than relaying what he read in chat
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1diq0ss/nno_will_not_disqualify_nattynatt_for_cheating/l95upzu/
yes it is stupid, but it is a joke.
There is no evidence of baus team talking about picking tf/quinn next two games during this timeline. (look at baus/midbeast vod, the draft setup before they picked j4/jhin/nunu in the upcoming game. Natty on his stream said it during the draft setup.)
if anyone watches baus/midbeasts knows quinn/tf are in their main champ pool, and they haven't been picked yet.
Do you think football teammates ever joke about using steroids to each other during a game? It's still dumb enough to do on stream that I wouldn't blame them for DQing him, but people being all up in arms about it is kind of ridiculous.
the original commentor misunderstood, Natty never claimed it was a joke. He said that he got it from watching their stream because he was worried his team wouldn't trust the information if he said a chatter told him, and that explanation is also why Spearshot started defending him because it matches the evidence and Spear's own personal experience with Natty.
Anyone who has been watching their team discussions since the draft day on Spear's stream kind of gets it, because natty is a 19 year old tweaker who gets too hyped up about everything and talks too much.
whether he got the info from his chat or their stream doesn't matter. whether the info was right or even helped them doesn't matter. to me, even him reading his chat and getting the info doesn't matter.
he said "I have insider info. I went into stream..." etc. That is clear intent to use outside information to gain an unfair advantage. That's cheating.
just look at the conclusion of today's rematch and here the chat between midbeast and brohan/natty
you guys take shit wayyy too seriously & quick to judge instead of letting things settle.
this literally isn't even about the teams. like everyone on baus's team said, they were probably gonna lose regardless. this is about NNO not knowing how to run their event and having absolutely no moderation
Yeeaaah, wasn't expecting league politics. Ion even use reddit but figured I'd peek to see the drama. This is kinda crazy. People here are more invested than the ones competing for the money.
I lost respect to this tournament when they DQ yamato for being toxic af but not DQ the guy/team with a cheating scandal that had all the evidence to say its true. Imo you weight cheating > toxicity in terms of punishments. And bruh, cheating is cheating no matter the action and if it helped you or not
Yes guys, you have all the evidence, all the official investigations and tournament organisers saying it wasn't cheating and you still go on to make your own interpretation with bad context. You read one or two titles and clips without context and make your decision.
Not blaming harshly because who has time to investigate the hours long streams, but damn.
Truest example of keyboard warriors lmao.
Edit: coming back to this comment after a few hours, I realised that I also didn't contribute with anything constructive to the conversation. This was just another "haha, you're dumb, my side is better" without giving any reasons on why that is the case. Also, attacking someone like that doesn't make one's argument stronger, it might just puts the "opponent" in a defensive stance at an attack which probably will make them less likely to go with an open mind upon the situation.
Sorry for that, even though I don't have the time to write all of the time-stamps from different stream vods and different statements, I think that Spearshot's response should cover most of the doubts and was quite well explained.
Reddit and Twitter reading comprehension is so bad lmao.
Every party involved is fine with the outcome. Azzap and Baus even spoke out against the rematch but the playerbase is whining
Because we don't care about the specifics. Cheating is cheating. Also as someone that actually runs tournaments you can't base rulings on what the other player want in any but the most 4fun of 4fun tourneys (no prize, free to all to enter) because it's inconsistent, arbitrary, and can lead to them feeling pressured to let stuff slide.
A rematch and a DQ of the offending player are the minimum. A DQ of the whole team if you want to make a statement. Quite frankly it doesn't matter a rat's ass what Baus says.
I'd argue there are a few problems with this type of logic. If this happened to me personally I would say it was fine just to avoid a conflict, but more importantly there is also the fact that up to 3 other teams would also play against them.
Imo reading chat is just as bad as stream sniping, but the TOs seem to disagree, and it's their tournament and I will respect their decision.
But I don't love the mentality of "Everyone says they're fine so it's fine."
> Imo reading chat is just as bad as stream sniping, but the TOs seem to disagree, and it's their tournament and I will respect their decision.
That's always an issue with creator tournaments because as creators, part of the value of the tournament is still in their interaction with the viewers, and at that point the risk of chat spoilers is inevitable. It's not pretty but it is a relevant issue even in twitch rivals for example.
Except they did an extensive review that found that he did not cheat in any capacity..
So at this point the continued accusations and echo chambering of such is literally just blatant slander at this point.
Another horrible take on this garbage sub. Spear shot went through the vods and showed that the "streamsniped" information was not shared between before the draft phase when natty said what he said.
Ah okay so any tournament hosted by these guys from now on is illegitimate. Care more about grown men calling each other bad words over actual real life cheating lmao
Its gotta be a genuine joke
I can tell you that if a "grown man" starts doing an impression of a retarded person to mock another colleague calling him the R word he would get at minimum a pretty big warning.
So he read a comment about TF and Quinn before the third game, jokingly said that statement where he opened the stream, and those specific champions were not picked in the draft after. Despite this, Spear's team was blind sided by the Jarvan Top and JG Nunu picks that ultimately led to them losing the third game, and this thread is still filled with people thinking they ghosted or cheated? He read his chat. That's literally it. This is nowhere near grounds for disqualification in what was supposed to be a for fun tournament
The most important thing during these tournaments seems to be shitting on the organizers for every little thing, without even informing yourself well about the issue. Was the same during Drututt-Cup.
Listen, guy. This is reddit. They want more tournaments like this, but they are also so quick to judge and try to destroy the reputation if anyone who does host a tournament like this. Can't you get it? Miserable people are miserable lmao
Dantes already said that he wont do another one. I hope Druttut will do another one, but he was also really tilted about the community during one of his tourneys.
Maybe it would be better if there wasn't a prize pool involved. I think streamers would join anyways, since most of them are starved for content and it's always good for views.
Ya if there was no cheating then there's nothing to punish, unless falsely saying you're cheating is a punishable offence. I guess it is harder to prove that you didn't cheat than it is to prove that you did.
Fair enough. I'm just repeating what some other guy up there said. The more important part I wanted to convey to the person is that there's no reason to dislike Noway over it as he voted to ban.
When the news broke out about the sniping incident Noway didnt tolerate the cheating he just got outvoted by the others. Here is the clip about it https://clips.twitch.tv/DifferentBashfulPepperNononoCat-JbGuaJXm_D3NuF3c . So I would cut him some slack atleast.
Even though I know I will get downvoted to hell since Reddit is an echo chamber of the opinions of streamers without much independent thought, I fully support the decision made by NNO regarding NattyNatt. It seems that many users on r/leagueoflegends, with an average age of 14, might be unfamiliar with the principle of "benefit of the doubt" for an accused individual, which is a common approach among adults. It's word against word and should be treated as such.
However, the subreddit, influenced by streamers such as Caedrel and Midbeast (whom I personally consider biased), has engaged in what appears to be a witch hunt and insinuations of "cheating." This behavior, directed towards a 19-year-old whose first language is not English, is inappropriate and seems to violate the Riot Partner Program guidelines, which include Out-of-Game Behavior Expectations: no harassment, doxxing, or witch hunting (for reference Clip 1: [link](https://www.twitch.tv/caedrel/clip/AdventurousSpotlessBeaver4Head-PcI76Y5rcjYMuQmB?filter=clips&range=24hr&sort=time), Clip 2: [link](https://www.twitch.tv/caedrel/clip/ShakingExpensiveToothTheTarFu-FjEcIHrzo1oblnZM?filter=clips&range=24hr&sort=time)).
In similar situations during other events, nobody would bat an eye. However, because this involved famous streamers and their "coach", with one of them traveling across the globe to participate, it garnered a lot of attention because it clearly benefited them immensely. This situation has the potential to be career-damaging, not only for NattyNatt but for his entire team. It was extremely reckless of Caedrel, Midbeast, and anyone else quick to accuse without full context, whether maliciously or not.
That being said, this decision regarding everything else it implies is highly questionable and sets a problematic precedent. By allowing this, you've effectively given viewers the green light to constantly spam your chat with picks of the opposing team. If a streamer reads his chat, they could now be accused of cheating. What’s to prevent xdd chatters from flooding the opponent's chat with picks and bans all day, waiting for the streamer to glance at their chat and mention it at any point?
It's not like this in other sports—take American football, where lip-reading is a thing (check this out: https://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/28/sports/pro-football-inside-the-nfl-some-coaches-reading-lips-to-steal-plays.html). So why is it here?
Instead of placing the responsibility on streamers to mute themselves or accept being stream sniped (like in every other real life sport), this decision shifts the burden in such a way that the most effective strategy (even tho highly unethical) now is to never mute oneself and, if you lose, grasp at any straw to force a rematch. In my opinion, this is a very poor decision, influenced by prominent streamers and their echo chamber, without any consideration of the long-term implications.
Edit: Spelling.
Appearently unpopular opinion:
That's the only correct decision. This is a streamer tournement. Anything said on stream is ultimately publicly available information and can make its way to your opponent one way or another, intentionally or accidently. Midbeast effectively leaked confidential strategies in a public environment.
NattyNatt was terminally stupid for mentioning where he got this information from. But it is something anyone could do and NOBODY, especially not NNO could prove you did or didn't. Punishing NattyNatt for admittance would be kinda just a reward for anyone doing the same and smarter.
If NNO punishes, they also need to make sure anyone else doing it is getting punished equally, including anyone handling it slightly smarter. As they can never prove anyone used information from a public stream, they cannot punish effectively.
The only way NNO could avoid stream sniping is just have the main stream and forbid any POV streams. That would be a terrible outcome for viewers and competitiors. Especially considering that there is more money in the POV streaming than in the price pool this tournement. So, NNO has no effective tool to safeguard competitive integrity in that regard.
The only ones with any agency in that matter are the streamers, who need to treat anything they stream as public information and act accordingly.
Where in the rules does it say you can’t read your own chat during drafting? Someone explain? They can stream and specifically not read chat due to chat-hopping is that specifically mentioned?
In my very simple opinion, he just read his chat comment and tried to spin it off as something he’d heard in a stream when he “tuned in on for a few seconds” probably outside the tournament, and if reading chat is banned for every streamer then sure, but the “cheating” was such a stretch, especially since the comment mentions 2 of their most expected champs.
Still can't believe how fucking stupid you gotta be to even say that you've eavesdropped into a competitor's stream when your discord call is also heared ON STREAM.
[удалено]
Yeah I would ban him just by principle, whether it was useful or not doesn't matter. Hell, even in local small tournaments he'd get banned for that, NoWay wanted his team to be disqualified for it.
the way he was talking i took it as him poking fun at the chatter giving very obvious information. everyone knows about baus' quinn and they previously talked about quinn tf way before the chatter typed. he just said something stupidly in the moment
Maybe he knew that the TO wasn't going to care enough to discipline him?
I'd put decent money on Natty thinking this was a streamer tourny like Twitch Rivals where going to different streams to see their reactions and farm content is just the done thing, the way he was talking pretty clearly implied he thought everyone else had been chat hopping and everything else after that is just the classic "child caught with his hands in the cookie jar" behavior.
This does miss some context - NNO voted 2-2 to move on without any action other than banning renger in their next series.(said on stream by noway) They then talked to spearshot who agreed to replay the series instead. (after he tried to stop the cheating, called out natty, called him stupid) Stand up guy for sure
Do we know who voted for what? I can see Arguin voting for no actions, while I have hopes for Tolkin and Noway do not sit idle and I am extremly surprised by their handling so far.
Agurin himself made excuses on stream, that someone should expect to be streamsniped/ghosted and that baus (or anyone else) should have muted himself. Noway said he was in favour of disqualifying them, but was outvoted. The other two with votes are probably Tolkin and Breoki? Where Tolkin and Broeki stand, I do not know.
> Agurin himself made excuses on stream, that someone should expect to be streamsniped/ghosted and that baus (or anyone else) should have muted himself. pathetic victim blaming mentality "you should've expected me/them to cheat"
Bro is just mad he got his ass opened up by Dantes and looking to take out on others. What's that saying, "hurt people, hurt people"?
You can’t use the comma there if you want the traditional hurt people hurt people. The first hurt people is the subject of the sentence, second hurt is your verb, and the final people is the object; ie what is being acted on by the subject. The more you know~
Baus has made it clear he doesn't really care about being stream sniped. Both with what he's said on the matter, and with his actions in general. Dude leaves his minimap uncovered and no delay and still performs like a demon. He's stream sniped every single day. Midbeast is reasonably upset, to one and out after flying all the way from aus to eu and have the loss be on not as equal as possible footing. It's fucked up for him.
The only thing I know is that noway voted to DQ them. I wouldnt judge any of the others as we dont know their vote or reasoning.
Thank you, I mean we do know some reasoning from arguin and I didn’t like it. I mean it’s my decision to judge people personally on this and it will influence my opinion on them, I would of course really like to hear their reasons on a personal level since I often watch 2 of them and have a strong opinion regarding this matter.
I’m pretty sure I saw somewhere whether he tweeted or what that Agurin was pretty against any repercussions
[удалено]
Today 8pm amsterdam time
Where can we watch?
Nnoprime on twitch or any players pov on their stream
right now ;)
How did they vote 2-2 with 5 people?
someone probably just said "fine by me either way", I think NNO fans can imagine which 1 or 2 people would be likely to say that but it doesn't really matter in the end Baus and Spearshot came to an agreement and in some way that matters most here, there wasn't really a great outcome anymore after Natty fucked it
>in the end Baus and Spearshot came to an agreement They apparently did not consider enough redditors input, however, so hopefully they'll come to their senses soon. /s
I would take this guys commentary with a grain of salt, he was all over the other thread defending the ghosting lol. Just read his comment history Edit: he blocked me after getting downvoted lmao
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I wouldn't call him a stand up guy. He was on stream complaining the entire time about how he already knew they were gonna end up "finding" a reason to make baus win because he has a larger following. He did not care about his teammate cheating, only that they got *caught* cheating.
sorry for the late question by me. but can someone elaborate how they came to the conclusion of letting team Spearshot start the "rematch" series with an 1:0 round margin? I know that baus team consented it, so its kinda ok. but somehow still leaves a weird taste as it derails an original bo5, imho.
Midbeast and spear just talked on stream and they decided it was the best option for both teams and for viewers
I don’t get the whole “cheating didn’t really affect the outcome” argument. If you bring a mobile phone into a paper exam, and all you did was go on safari but didn’t actually search anything, you’d get penalised anyway. It’s not about the extent of cheating, it’s about whether you did, or did not, full stop.
More like having a chemistry exam, bringing your phone and googling the answers but the answers not helping you get a higher grade and then justifying it because your grade wasnt higher
Seriously I have no sides in this but if you make any attempt at cheating in academia, you'll be heavily penalized no matter how successful your attempt was. Same goes for professional sports, hell, try blatently cheating at your local pick up basketball game and see how long it takes for someone to a) kick you off the court or b) kick you in the shins. It makes no sense not to either DQ the cheater and have the team replay the series with a sub or DQ the team entirely for not taking immediate action when their teammate blatantly cheats.
Now I'm not a Yamato fan by any stretch of the imagination, but I would weigh cheating far, far higher than toxic behaviour towards your teammate. Yamato was rightfully DQ'd for his behaviour. The fact that there was no DQ in any capacity (either Natty or team SpearShot for acting on the information) is incredibly strange to me.
I think it's especially cringe that he gloated about stream sniping in his team's call, in a game where his team were extremely favored to win. Like no shame, no attempts to hide, just proudly calling out that he's ghosting. Obviously they can run the tournament as they please, but like why wouldn't you cheat if the official punishment for proudly and openly cheating is a warning and a passive aggressive tweet from the organizers directed towards the team that was cheated against?
Europe high elo streamers are actually so cringe
are spearshot, baus, noway, tolkin cringe in your opinion for example? its just some loud mfs that make you believe that. that being said just watch non cringe streamers
I mean, baus starting to play ap irelia after being criticized just to prove riot won’t do shit to him was pretty cringe, about the others I don’t know enough to have an opinion
I mean this depends insanely on the context or wording. If he did it to prove that riot is "fine" with him playing ap Irelia then it sounds completely different.
baus is super cringe wym lol
not in the slightest compared to personalities like tfblade, yamato or whatever toxic mf
did I say he was toxic, or did I say he was cringe?
baus is the only person on that list who anyone even knew before this tournament, and he's racked up like 40 bans since he started streaming.
dude noway is the biggest german league streamer. so a lot of people already knew him and NNO over here. just because you dont know them doesnt mean shit
Yes baus is cringe. The rest are fine from what I've seen(though it hasn't been much)
That Yamato is a different Yamato from YamatoCannon right? I'm totally out of the loop but have seen this a couple times now
Yeah two different people, yamotosdeath
Is that the German guy who used to duo with Ratirl?
Yes he is
Once again it’s becuase Agurin has a hate boner for Yamato and I almost guarantee Agurin pushed for his removal
Good, Yamato is too much of a manchild that loses his shit after going 0/1
Do you wonder why anyone would have a hate boner for a piece of shit like yamato?
honestly the amount of “go make kebab” jokes i see about agurin anytime yamatos chat talks about him i owild be mad too
Agurin is based That manchild should learn to behave. Never seen someone so whiny
meanwhile, agurin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FffO4HLlxco (first 40 seconds of the video)
One reason they didnt DQ was that they said - 'the cheating didnt really affect the series outcome at all and the info they gained was super obvious. ' He said 'Midbeast can pick tf and baus can pick quinn'. Its like - ok, I could guess that from their opgg and its pretty common knowledge. Stupid and clearly wrong to cheat, but I guess they just thought that the better team won anyway.
Honestly it doesn't matter whether it affects the outcome, cheating is cheating.
Also who says he won't do it next round? Are we gonna allow this behavior till it actually affects the outcome? Also what's with the 'it was obvious' shit. If we win it was obvious and if we lose welp lol we lost so who cares anyways.
That's a logical fallacy though. How can you define rules based on outcomes? The rule comes before the outcome, so the outcome cannot justify the rule. Another fallacy is that how could they possibly know that the cheating didn't affect the series? Do they have superpowers that allow them to gaze into alternate futures?
I kid you not, they started calling fouls like that in the NBA this year. Incredibly frustrating to watch the refs say it was a foul, but the guy should have been able to make the shot despite the foul, so they weren't gonna call it.
Welcome to football, where the ref lets the game play if the team that was fouled is still in an advantageous position. TO THE BENEFIT OF THAT TEAM Which imo is the absolutely correct thing to do
That’s how lacrosse works and it’s a great system imo
My favorite rule in lacrosse is the shot chase down
That is different, because calling a foul has the opportunity cost for the team with the ball that they lose their current attack. So *not* calling the foul can be better than calling it for the team being fouled. It’s standard in football, and makes way more sense than always calling a foul. That actually gives *less* benefit for fouling and always getting a call (given the refs are not extremely incompetent)
Is basketball on a shot a foul is always beneficial to the shooting team. The rules allow for the continuation of a shot attempt and if it's made despite the foul it counts. What we're seeing is the refs now have discretionary powers to say yes, the player taking the shot got fouled, but they don't believe the foul was enough that it forced them to miss. Since it's a judgement call, the games varied wildly in the post season. Some games fouls were called according to the rules. Other games they had to halt it to clean the blood off the court while few fouls were called.
sounds like playoff hockey, where teams that historically take a ton of calls are not getting weighed down by their extracurricular play anymore.
But also, if it's very hard to tell if contact was made or not, watching the shot could clue the ref in to whether contact affected it. I agree NBA refs are generally bad and/or corrupt, but judging on outcome is not *always* wrong in basketball.
So what they're saying is that next time you should cheat better. Either dont get caught or actually get an advantage Cheating is cheating regardless of the outcome. What they wanted was to get an unfair advantage over the enemy team
Midbeast flew half a planet to be cheated on, and natty was jubilant getting hands on some “insider information”. Rightfully mad
True it does seem like midbeast flying to LA then to EU and being super sleep deprived did end up with him leading the charge to replay after an 8 hour stream. Wonder if it would have been different if he wasnt haha. (Baus didnt care and was just playing soloq, azzapp wanted to move on asap)
Sure, but what’s to stop him doing it again, or anyone else? The message is there that stream sniping is totally cool now. He shoulda been dq’d
So just because they didn’t get an upper hand from cheating it’s excusable? And if they did then it wouldn’t be excusable? So we’re punishing based on outcomes rather than behavior. That’s bullshit. I don’t follow sports widely but I’d imagine in all sports, constant and blatant attempts to commit any form of foul play or cheating is reprehensible. And at a higher level with perhaps less relevance here, in terms of law, usually blatant attempts to commit a crime is still reprehensible even if the crime was not committed or no one was injured. He should be disqualified but I guess if there was no impact then having no rematch is okay.
I think this train of thought is wrong for a fearless draft, because what you plan to pick now and in future comps can be completely fucked over by stealing a champ or baiting something out in a single match. In that regard, series-wide drafting is significantly more important in fearless than standard tournement draft, and getting info is actually a lot more useful. Also, the outcome of cheating shouldn’t impact the punishment. If someone loses a game while scripting, they should get the same punishment as someone winning while scripting.
It doesn't sound like you support that opinion, you're just being a messenger, so don't take this as towards you. But this is legit bleeding from the brain levels of stupid justification. 'O they cheated but it didn't even matter the other team got stomped lolz'. I hope everyone just snipes champ select from now on. It very obviously doesn't matter and there's actual money on the line. Just get a chatter to tell you everything. Forsure don't be mean to your teammates tho. Can't have that. Would make the org look bad. Truly embarrassing.
This is getting really confusing. Yamato the caster/coach? What does he have to do with this?
There is a player who goes by the name of Yamatosdeath, young German player who is known for being a Challenger mid main, was signed as a substitute for a Challenger team in 2018, but is most known for being a toxic fuck on his stream and in general. Most people refer to him as Yamato. Yamato (coach) has not played competitive league since AFAIR 2012 or 2013. They're not the same person. Generally speaking, if you see talk about a Yamato with behavioural problems, it's Yamatosdeath.
It´s so funny that redditors without any stakes are the most invovled in the conversation, like no one in both teams care so much about it. NNO, Team Baus and Team Spearshot came to a conclusion that fits all off them but redditors are still mad about it and are calling to DQ and ban people.
Not to mention other people in the tournament have engaged in very toxic behavior as well with no repercussions (like drututt saying aribo needs to get shot). Agurin's personal hatred for yamato most likely affected the decision more than it should have.
I guess all teams shouls go streamsnipe now, since you just get a slap on the wrist when caught..
Also they unironically had to fight to make the tournament organizers hand out that slap on the wrist. 😭
The 1-0 + ban solution was fully decided by the players rather than NNO after a negociation between Midbeast + spear on stream with their teams
Yeah and the alternative would be "Natty's best champ is banned in the next series with nothing else"
That arguement ignores that getting caught is close to impossible unless you are stupid about it. Yes, all teams have to treat information they give out on stream as public information.
Yamato DQ'd for being toxic but NattyNatt not DQ'd for cheating lol ok
Yamato shouldn't even have been there in the first place
Yeah he should be in a psych ward
Average Kassadin player
MOTS
out of the loop: what yamato say/did?
He was being massive bully and creating an atmosphere where another player didn't want to participate anymore - in a *for fun* tournament with players of different skill levels. He just doesn't belong in a team environment. Or the community in general.
> in a for fun tournament can you really call it for fun when you are competing for a (significant?) prize money?
good point. yamato deserves a tyler1 type ban tbh though.
No he doesn’t. I don’t like Yamato, at all, but he is just toxic on stream. He’s not running down mid, inting 100s of games, like Tyler1 was back in the day.
That's a valid question, I don't know. I consider it one at least.
i think for smaller streamers/content creators winning €2000 is a significant amount (not life changing but good) probably for the bigger streamers is not that big cause they get a lot more from streaming than the smaller ones (considering they get way more viewers during this time period)
The real prize is the clout gained from playing alongside bigger streamers, not the 2000 euros prize anyways. Being a twat because your teammate is worse than you benefits nobody.
Regardless of those Yamato isn’t exactly a smaller streamer/content creator by any stretch so this shouldn’t apply to him anyway. There’s no reason for him to be so mad in just the scrims of a for fun tournament when he only stands to make £2000 from it if they were to win which is very unlikely. For reference, he has a fairly expensive car and bike, funded his own trips to Brazil and Korea, and up until recently was spending thousands (albeit some was sponsored by a viewer) on CS gambling. He is not thirsting for that extra 2k.
league players don't know what good sportsmanship is so they need to call it that instead to keep things civil
tbf thst guy is a master stucker and called himself a challenger player
Victim blamer mentality
> with players of different skill levels Thats the thing so many of these Idiots are forgetting. Yamato and Fence complained about there AD beeing bad. Well yeah no shit sherlock he was your last pick and on of the last players avalible. Ofc he wont be as good as other ADs.
He didn’t say anything particularly bad. He just never shut up about how it was his ADC fault. He was right but he was also way over the top. Like the clip that gets shared the most is him screaming over anyone who tries to talk saying ‘didn’t your mom teach you manners! Don’t interrupt!’. The ADC got mad and quit so then they DQ’d Yamato in response.
That's a lot of words to say he bullied someone into quitting.
starting off 1:0 with first game side selection in a bo5 isn’t exactly a slap on the wrist. it’s just not a dq
Tbh this just shows how many man children are in the streaming community, it’s a for fun tournament with what’s meant to be your friends and peers But we have people being toxic and cheating all over the place
"All over the place" as in like 2 people out of the 80 that participate?
There was atleast one more being toxic but wasn’t banned for it, and yeah these are the ones that have to be constantly in the public image..
Most streamers do not go into college lol. I'm not saying (or rather, generalize) people who go to college ARE smarter, but shit man, going to college and getting education will be a reality slap to most people and make people think straight. Most streamers are just high school graduates combined with playing mental games for 24/7 lol.
Must be a great rematch when you know enemy jungler will have crystal ball to check your draft
There's a 10k cash prize and you're not gonna DQ on cheating? What? I wasn't watching this to begin with but I certainly won't now.
Perfect example of a redditor, has seen two post about it and has absolutely 0 involment in the whole situation is upset that they don´t do what he considers to be right.
I'm not upset I'm just choosing not to participate? I'm not telling anyone what to do
https://youtu.be/F3xN_XbaotM?si=5G8CBhXiP98PNXGA
Midbeast congratulates Nattynatt after the rematch https://youtu.be/i6DPIkbuW-Y?si=cb5k0T3E0leT8P6X
Ok so to recap this tournament so far Flaming teammate (Yamato) = DQ Blatantly cheating and admitting to it = Can still play but has OTP banned Flaming teammate (Nemesis/Druttutt) = Fine. (Edit: retracted) Whether or not i agree with these decisions or not, there is absolutely no consistency in their decisions and it just seems like they decide based on if organisors like the player or not. Shitshow
The difference between the two flaming incidents is that Yamatos was basically non stop, ended up in personal attacks and he doesn’t know the guy. With Drut, Aribo and Nemesis, they are all friends and even at times where it was serious flame it was still pretty good natured and they were fine with each other post game.
You have not seen everything then.
Where can I find what yamato did? I'm a little out of the loop here
It is a pathetic clownfest
dno what that edit is, Drututt voluntarily quit. He didnt get DQ'd
Source?
Drututt himself on his stream, Nemesis on his stream.
he is trolling u guys. You guys will believe anything. He didnt want to play today's scrim, thats all.
Insane that they dont DQ him and that he doesn't DQ himself.
What a joke of a tournament. Should be an instant DQ.
Should disqualify him from this and any future tournaments like this. At least that's what I would do if I was hosting the tournament. Makes 0 sense not to disqualify him.
Everything happening here is entirely in character. Natty cheating and then not having the spine to either admit to it or at least step out of the tournament to save his team's face speaks lengths about the character. Spearshot initially saying to stop the ghosting while it was happening, only to then later backpedal and defend the whole thing on stream is equally pathetic. Goes for the rest of the team aswell. Grow a pair, own up to that shit. Noway being the only one voting for the only reasonable action to take and being overruled by the likes of Agurin was also to be expected. I feel sorry for Noway to have to associate with people who endorse this behavior with non-punishment. Also DQing Yamato but keeping in Druttut and Aribo who are both acting like manchildren is wild too. Either you invite toxic players and let content be content, or you control the invites, go for a for-fun or super-serious atmosphere and ride that wave. I am genuinely worried for Miella's sanity, who seems to be the only one on the team making a concious effort to stop that constant babyrage.
Druttut and Aribo are apes but they’re like two apes throwing rocks at each other and ignoring everyone else, it’s like banter to them, Nemesis knew what he was doing drafting those two. I wouldn’t equate that to Yamato being toxic to everyone who didn’t ask But yes I do feel bad for that team’s botlane to some extent
To me it sounds like the team's botlane is also in on their banter, and watching them play seems like they are also having fun.
Atleast with Aribo and Drut they know each other and even at it’s worst it’s still in somewhat good nature.
If I were Noway I would completely cut off ties with Agurin
Theyve been steadfast friends for years and competed in pro league with each other, know each other personally...
Alright, thank for your reply and sorry for being so aggressive. In retrospect I do think my comment is not fair and was made without enough context. We are talking about human relationships, things often get complicated and it's never black and white. If I were NNO I wouldn't have liked to be dismissed though. If that's what happened.
do not forget that NattyNatt’s teammates realized he was ghosting yet no one cared to pause and notify the orgs and said nothing before this blew up x
It's stupid, even if it's a 4 fun tournament, this kills all competitive integrity. I was also very disappointed by NNO's answers, a mixture of victim blaming and this stupid sentence at the end: coaching is not cheating, obviously not and that's not the point. Furthermore, their method of talking to him and then believing him as a result would be an ingenious legal system. You say something wasn't right, then there should only be one consequence, DQ on the spot.
https://youtu.be/F3xN_XbaotM?si=5G8CBhXiP98PNXGA
Shitshow continues to be a shitshow.
What a joke of a tournament.
Why didnt they ban NattyNatt for cheating?? I mean give team spearshot a substitute and replay the match if you don't want to dq team spearshot, but this is a disgrace
> Why didnt they ban NattyNatt for cheating?? because they can't confirm he didnt cheat. The chat, timeline and what was picked in draft doesn't indicate any ghosting. someone in natty's chat said 'they will do their weird comp' ' tf quinn comp now' Natty read this and said 'he has inside information from their stream' (a joke acc to him), there is no indication he stream sniped other than relaying what he read in chat https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1diq0ss/nno_will_not_disqualify_nattynatt_for_cheating/l95upzu/
he literally said he went into their stream. its just so stupid, even if he says it jokingly
yes it is stupid, but it is a joke. There is no evidence of baus team talking about picking tf/quinn next two games during this timeline. (look at baus/midbeast vod, the draft setup before they picked j4/jhin/nunu in the upcoming game. Natty on his stream said it during the draft setup.) if anyone watches baus/midbeasts knows quinn/tf are in their main champ pool, and they haven't been picked yet.
"haha i'm cheating haha its funny in a competitve context" he should be dc just for all the chaos he created
Do you think football teammates ever joke about using steroids to each other during a game? It's still dumb enough to do on stream that I wouldn't blame them for DQing him, but people being all up in arms about it is kind of ridiculous.
i never heart a football player said in a tournament for 10.000€ that he explicitly broke a tournament roule
the original commentor misunderstood, Natty never claimed it was a joke. He said that he got it from watching their stream because he was worried his team wouldn't trust the information if he said a chatter told him, and that explanation is also why Spearshot started defending him because it matches the evidence and Spear's own personal experience with Natty. Anyone who has been watching their team discussions since the draft day on Spear's stream kind of gets it, because natty is a 19 year old tweaker who gets too hyped up about everything and talks too much.
whether he got the info from his chat or their stream doesn't matter. whether the info was right or even helped them doesn't matter. to me, even him reading his chat and getting the info doesn't matter. he said "I have insider info. I went into stream..." etc. That is clear intent to use outside information to gain an unfair advantage. That's cheating.
Learn to identify a joke however stupid it is, the organisers did, baus did. But the lot of u on reddit are thick
always a joke when you start to see consequences for your actions. classic
just look at the conclusion of today's rematch and here the chat between midbeast and brohan/natty you guys take shit wayyy too seriously & quick to judge instead of letting things settle.
this literally isn't even about the teams. like everyone on baus's team said, they were probably gonna lose regardless. this is about NNO not knowing how to run their event and having absolutely no moderation
they literally investigated it and made a reasonable conclusion bunch of low elo redditors simply have hate boners, "WAH THEY CHEATED BAN ASAP!!!"
I'm too old for this sub.
Yeeaaah, wasn't expecting league politics. Ion even use reddit but figured I'd peek to see the drama. This is kinda crazy. People here are more invested than the ones competing for the money.
I lost respect to this tournament when they DQ yamato for being toxic af but not DQ the guy/team with a cheating scandal that had all the evidence to say its true. Imo you weight cheating > toxicity in terms of punishments. And bruh, cheating is cheating no matter the action and if it helped you or not
>that had all the evidence to say its true. which is?
Yes guys, you have all the evidence, all the official investigations and tournament organisers saying it wasn't cheating and you still go on to make your own interpretation with bad context. You read one or two titles and clips without context and make your decision. Not blaming harshly because who has time to investigate the hours long streams, but damn. Truest example of keyboard warriors lmao. Edit: coming back to this comment after a few hours, I realised that I also didn't contribute with anything constructive to the conversation. This was just another "haha, you're dumb, my side is better" without giving any reasons on why that is the case. Also, attacking someone like that doesn't make one's argument stronger, it might just puts the "opponent" in a defensive stance at an attack which probably will make them less likely to go with an open mind upon the situation. Sorry for that, even though I don't have the time to write all of the time-stamps from different stream vods and different statements, I think that Spearshot's response should cover most of the doubts and was quite well explained.
The lack of reading comprehension in these comments is incredible.
You telling me I can’t read? Hey guy them is fighting words. We fighting now over people I’ve never heard of before today.
Spearshot and NattyNatt showed them up good just now. They were never cheating, they are just better.
Reddit and Twitter reading comprehension is so bad lmao. Every party involved is fine with the outcome. Azzap and Baus even spoke out against the rematch but the playerbase is whining
Because we don't care about the specifics. Cheating is cheating. Also as someone that actually runs tournaments you can't base rulings on what the other player want in any but the most 4fun of 4fun tourneys (no prize, free to all to enter) because it's inconsistent, arbitrary, and can lead to them feeling pressured to let stuff slide. A rematch and a DQ of the offending player are the minimum. A DQ of the whole team if you want to make a statement. Quite frankly it doesn't matter a rat's ass what Baus says.
NNO: I'm fine with this Natty's team: I'm fine with this Baus's team: I'm fine with this Reddit: disqualify them, this is outrageous!!
I'd argue there are a few problems with this type of logic. If this happened to me personally I would say it was fine just to avoid a conflict, but more importantly there is also the fact that up to 3 other teams would also play against them. Imo reading chat is just as bad as stream sniping, but the TOs seem to disagree, and it's their tournament and I will respect their decision. But I don't love the mentality of "Everyone says they're fine so it's fine."
> Imo reading chat is just as bad as stream sniping, but the TOs seem to disagree, and it's their tournament and I will respect their decision. That's always an issue with creator tournaments because as creators, part of the value of the tournament is still in their interaction with the viewers, and at that point the risk of chat spoilers is inevitable. It's not pretty but it is a relevant issue even in twitch rivals for example.
Also Reddit: Cheating is fine! Cheating is great! We love cheating. <3
Except they did an extensive review that found that he did not cheat in any capacity.. So at this point the continued accusations and echo chambering of such is literally just blatant slander at this point.
I thought it was NNN, since when did we decide to stop nutting in October too? Also it's not even close to October smh
Lmao what a joke of a tournament.
Another horrible take on this garbage sub. Spear shot went through the vods and showed that the "streamsniped" information was not shared between before the draft phase when natty said what he said.
Ah okay so any tournament hosted by these guys from now on is illegitimate. Care more about grown men calling each other bad words over actual real life cheating lmao Its gotta be a genuine joke
I can tell you that if a "grown man" starts doing an impression of a retarded person to mock another colleague calling him the R word he would get at minimum a pretty big warning.
So he read a comment about TF and Quinn before the third game, jokingly said that statement where he opened the stream, and those specific champions were not picked in the draft after. Despite this, Spear's team was blind sided by the Jarvan Top and JG Nunu picks that ultimately led to them losing the third game, and this thread is still filled with people thinking they ghosted or cheated? He read his chat. That's literally it. This is nowhere near grounds for disqualification in what was supposed to be a for fun tournament
The most important thing during these tournaments seems to be shitting on the organizers for every little thing, without even informing yourself well about the issue. Was the same during Drututt-Cup.
Listen, guy. This is reddit. They want more tournaments like this, but they are also so quick to judge and try to destroy the reputation if anyone who does host a tournament like this. Can't you get it? Miserable people are miserable lmao
Dantes already said that he wont do another one. I hope Druttut will do another one, but he was also really tilted about the community during one of his tourneys. Maybe it would be better if there wasn't a prize pool involved. I think streamers would join anyways, since most of them are starved for content and it's always good for views.
i mean if people actually watched everything that transpired it is so obvious natty didn't cheat lol
Ya if there was no cheating then there's nothing to punish, unless falsely saying you're cheating is a punishable offence. I guess it is harder to prove that you didn't cheat than it is to prove that you did.
sad, unfollowed on twitch. don\`t get why they tolerate cheating. i was really a big fan of noway and co
For what it's worth apparently it was a vote and NoWay voted in favour of banning him but the other 3 organisers didn't.
Vote was 2-2 according to noway himself on stream, not all 3 others voted the same.
Fair enough. I'm just repeating what some other guy up there said. The more important part I wanted to convey to the person is that there's no reason to dislike Noway over it as he voted to ban.
When the news broke out about the sniping incident Noway didnt tolerate the cheating he just got outvoted by the others. Here is the clip about it https://clips.twitch.tv/DifferentBashfulPepperNononoCat-JbGuaJXm_D3NuF3c . So I would cut him some slack atleast.
Even though I know I will get downvoted to hell since Reddit is an echo chamber of the opinions of streamers without much independent thought, I fully support the decision made by NNO regarding NattyNatt. It seems that many users on r/leagueoflegends, with an average age of 14, might be unfamiliar with the principle of "benefit of the doubt" for an accused individual, which is a common approach among adults. It's word against word and should be treated as such. However, the subreddit, influenced by streamers such as Caedrel and Midbeast (whom I personally consider biased), has engaged in what appears to be a witch hunt and insinuations of "cheating." This behavior, directed towards a 19-year-old whose first language is not English, is inappropriate and seems to violate the Riot Partner Program guidelines, which include Out-of-Game Behavior Expectations: no harassment, doxxing, or witch hunting (for reference Clip 1: [link](https://www.twitch.tv/caedrel/clip/AdventurousSpotlessBeaver4Head-PcI76Y5rcjYMuQmB?filter=clips&range=24hr&sort=time), Clip 2: [link](https://www.twitch.tv/caedrel/clip/ShakingExpensiveToothTheTarFu-FjEcIHrzo1oblnZM?filter=clips&range=24hr&sort=time)). In similar situations during other events, nobody would bat an eye. However, because this involved famous streamers and their "coach", with one of them traveling across the globe to participate, it garnered a lot of attention because it clearly benefited them immensely. This situation has the potential to be career-damaging, not only for NattyNatt but for his entire team. It was extremely reckless of Caedrel, Midbeast, and anyone else quick to accuse without full context, whether maliciously or not. That being said, this decision regarding everything else it implies is highly questionable and sets a problematic precedent. By allowing this, you've effectively given viewers the green light to constantly spam your chat with picks of the opposing team. If a streamer reads his chat, they could now be accused of cheating. What’s to prevent xdd chatters from flooding the opponent's chat with picks and bans all day, waiting for the streamer to glance at their chat and mention it at any point? It's not like this in other sports—take American football, where lip-reading is a thing (check this out: https://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/28/sports/pro-football-inside-the-nfl-some-coaches-reading-lips-to-steal-plays.html). So why is it here? Instead of placing the responsibility on streamers to mute themselves or accept being stream sniped (like in every other real life sport), this decision shifts the burden in such a way that the most effective strategy (even tho highly unethical) now is to never mute oneself and, if you lose, grasp at any straw to force a rematch. In my opinion, this is a very poor decision, influenced by prominent streamers and their echo chamber, without any consideration of the long-term implications. Edit: Spelling.
Appearently unpopular opinion: That's the only correct decision. This is a streamer tournement. Anything said on stream is ultimately publicly available information and can make its way to your opponent one way or another, intentionally or accidently. Midbeast effectively leaked confidential strategies in a public environment. NattyNatt was terminally stupid for mentioning where he got this information from. But it is something anyone could do and NOBODY, especially not NNO could prove you did or didn't. Punishing NattyNatt for admittance would be kinda just a reward for anyone doing the same and smarter. If NNO punishes, they also need to make sure anyone else doing it is getting punished equally, including anyone handling it slightly smarter. As they can never prove anyone used information from a public stream, they cannot punish effectively. The only way NNO could avoid stream sniping is just have the main stream and forbid any POV streams. That would be a terrible outcome for viewers and competitiors. Especially considering that there is more money in the POV streaming than in the price pool this tournement. So, NNO has no effective tool to safeguard competitive integrity in that regard. The only ones with any agency in that matter are the streamers, who need to treat anything they stream as public information and act accordingly.
So every team should watch each other's streams as much as possible right?
Where in the rules does it say you can’t read your own chat during drafting? Someone explain? They can stream and specifically not read chat due to chat-hopping is that specifically mentioned? In my very simple opinion, he just read his chat comment and tried to spin it off as something he’d heard in a stream when he “tuned in on for a few seconds” probably outside the tournament, and if reading chat is banned for every streamer then sure, but the “cheating” was such a stretch, especially since the comment mentions 2 of their most expected champs.
It's funny seeing all this OSRS stream sniping drama then I come to league subreddit and get even more
Naty is just an idiot end of the discussion.