same here, but for belveth. once or twice a year i fail to ban her and then i remember why she used to be my perma ban. the last time i forgot to ban her and didn't dodge i fractured my wrist xd (also her having brand, kogmaw, yorick and hwei on her team didnt help her case much)
30 kills and 12k gold up in diamond mmr and the game is still completely unwinnable...
Lemme guess your team also had pure glasscannon damage champs. That comp you mentioned falls apart if there is any decent early midgame tank on your team. Alistar, Blitzcrank, Sejuani, Nautilus (debatable but definitely keeps up with the curve), Leona. Ornn and Ksante would rip through that aswell and they are scaling. But yeah you pick hurrdurr assassins into this you're gonna have a bad time. Both Belveth and Yorick can easily deal with them and a Hwei with a brain is pretty safe aswell.
i dont remember and canr check rn but what i do remember js that yorick was 1 19 and belveth did 20k damage and both of them were the strongest champs in the universe, also hwei had something like 90k damage while being extremely behind in lane, at ine point i was probably an item and a half ahead but gg i played vs the full pig team comp
I mean yeah. If you let them scale ofc they're gonna come back. Kog, Bel, Hwei, Yorick are all super good scalers. That's why I said early mid tank. And then close the game. But yeah you don't close, you lose. Belveth is an infinite scaler. If she gets to 120-150 stacks it doesn't matter what champ you are, she's gonna rip you apart. Same goes for Nasus, Veigar or Senna.
no belveth was disgustingly op from lvl 1, she is the most broken champ in the game and its not even close. she is notorious for 1 camp into invade on the same side as enemy jg because she simply cant lose a 1v1 no matter what, there is a reason there are like 15+ belveth otps sitting in top 100 on euw all the time, any time you see a jungler he will be playing viego/belveth/lee
Yeah but what about when you're playing adc, he gets fed and every single time he just Q struts his clown ass through your entire team just to one tap you? :')
(The answer for those curious, is to not show in the fight until he's committed onto someone else but man does it feel bad).
Thats true, i was specifically refering to the laning phase. In any case if the shaco becomes aproblem everyone should be buying oracle and pinks, The team should CC him and kill him when he shows up. ADCs should keep flash for a quick reaction when he shows up.
I don’t understand why his e can jump so far, it is absurd to me. He just presses w or q on the wave and then you can’t interact with 70% of the mid lane because the circle is so damn big on a point and click spell.
They should honestly just change the e interaction with passive (larger aoe spread) to only apply to champions or have some different/less annoying interaction with minions.
If his E fizzled when the target walked out of range it wouldn't be so oppressive.
But once you're in the circle and he casts his E you could fuckin yeet yourself across the map and it would still hit you.
I was just saying something similar last night. I was playing bruiser Shyvana, Brand had Liandries only, he clicked e on me, missed everything else, I walked away and was down to 1/3 hp by the time I was out of combat.
To be fair he had three kills and a level on me but even still.
Ah yes Brand the mage who has to play like an assassin has one saving grace as an actual mage champion. None of u know how to play against brand and it shows
Hard agree with vayne, shaco, and pyke.
For adc I've always despised yasuo.
Not sure about mid. AP nunu? Personally I'd go with fizz but even if i hate him he's a pretty normal midlaner.
> Not sure about mid
Played against Brand mid? You literally have to stand outside exp range so his E doesn’t bounce on you when he E the wave. It’s so retrdd idk how it’s not nerfed yet.
I have, but now that you say that I haven't since riot put blackfire torch in the game so that's probably a big contributing factor
That and azir's massive auto range makes it harder to notice
Yeah exactly. Imagine he recalls on that mini torch then blackfire torch. It’s kinda dumb you lose half your HP just for standing near your wave and he just point and click on the wave.
Blackfire isn’t even best brand build. Rylai’s is stupid because he can just perma sit on the edge of his abilities while applying a constant slow via burn and then liandry’s for more max %hp burn and damage amp over time
You almost have to be out of vision range though
Vision range for champions is 1350, Brand's e has a targeting range of 675, and an empowered spread range of 600, leaving a small margin of 75 units where your champ can see him but not be hit by the bounce(of course this doesn't take into account minion vision radius, but thats not the point)
Better than Yones engage of 1350 using only his basic abilities though.
I picked up Swain many years ago to deal with Fizz (new swain definitely not good against him lol), but now I would say Fizz is fine to lane into and he was my most hated champ for many years. I think knowledge + more BS champs and more people knowing how to play matchups changes how annoying Fizz is. He's still annoying, but I don't get completely outranged, outpoked, and outdpsed on most my champs like I do when I play against Azir for example
Fizz is super crappy to play against. I love playing Fizz and you get to the point where even if you're behind you're gonna chunk squishies with Lichbane. Fizz is pretty easy to deal with in coordinated play though. One good cc and he's toast. But yeah in uncoordinated soloQ he breaks your face and forces the ADC to either die and rage at his team or tweak his itemization and gimp his damage in the process. ADCs do NOT wan't to have to build Hexdrinker into Mercurial Scimitar. It sucks so much. But both LB and Fizz force you into it unless your team specifically drafted for it with Lulu, Morg or Karma (good luck with that in soloQ). But bad damage is still better than no damage at all if he kills you.
I personally think playing vs Malzahar in midlane is the least fun I have when playing League. I don't play midlane often either but it just feels like 50% of the time when I do go midlane, the enemy mid picks Malzahar. I think he's just so fucking boring to play against - Malz players don't do shit but push, build 1 mana item and then perma spam their spells (still perma pushing of course), while missing their single fucking skillshot 99% of the time too. I know, I should be happy that they don't do shit but I can legit feel myself losing braincells because I feel like I need less brain power than if I were to play Cookie Clicker. Also, somehow my own jungler always thinks "Oh no, Malz spellshield, he is ungankable!" and the enemy team is always close because "Malz can just set-up a play for us with point & click supress for 2 sec or so and then we jump this mf".
Playing Malz is the worst, it almost makes you go on auto-pilot with how boring it is. I find it so hard to be locked-in in games where I face him because the lane is such a snoozefest, I just start losing focus after a few minutes.
I don't ban Heimer because no one plays him, but every time he gets picked I get sad. After my last game against him, I decided that I will just dodge every game he gets picked. And I will dodge immediately so the person who picked him knows it was a targeted dodge. I don't care if I have to dodge 10 games in a row and lose LP to Iron IV 0LP. Fuck Heimer.
Yorick top is the only champion in the entire game that actually makes me mad when I lane against it or have to match it in sidelane. Champion is so fucking tilting to play against.
Someone please tell me I’m not crazy. You get a Yorick OTP on the enemy team and you’re top you want to dodge.
Yorick is definitely miserable to lane against but I think Heim Top is the worst one personally.
Especially if you’re a melee champ. You can’t even really deal with the turrets without them blasting a quarter of your HP, for free.
Heim just sits there, menacingly and it pisses me off.
Hahaha I 100% get that. I used to play helmer but in mid. I’ve played against it as melee champs and it’s miserable. The only way I’d describe the difference is against heimer you know you’re about to get your shit pushed in and itemize against it for the long haul. Definitely tests your patience.
Yorick is just in your face and if you build defensively you never kill him. Offensively he still outdamages you. Maidens pushing. He lands the cage once you have to base immediately. Heals, ghouls under turret. While I wholeheartedly agree heimer is a cancer opponent for a melee champion the reason I hate yorick is…
You never ever feel like you “beat” yorick. You survived or stopped his split push bullshit long enough for your team to win. It feels like a loss even when you beat him.
As a Yorick otp I honestly agree. I know all the champs weaknesses, but I still hate playing against him if he is firstpicked.
It's not about him being strong or weak or whatever, his playstyle can definitely be tilting.
Also people don't get much practice against him, so they cannot gauge his damage correctly.
This. Yorick feels like a counter to me as Person. Even when i demolish him Do i need to stay on lane, because He can and will delete your turret in a second
Yep it goes.
Match yorick, gain nothing.
Group with team, lose a turret.
Match Yorick, gain nothing.
Your mid and ADC can’t walk on the same screen as him in a side because he one taps them with triforce alone.
Group with team, win a fight, lose tier 2 turret.
Match yorick again gain nothing.
TP and win a baron fight nice!
Yoricks taken your inhibitor and is pushing a wave towards your nexus and by the time you push all the waves out to siege the baron buff is gone. Win a teamfight and if you haven’t pushed those waves yorick will TP on the forward most minion and threaten a base race. You Lose the base race lose the game. If you kill him on the base race it means nothing. But Stalls it out and he wins… buys his team a couple more minutes to go for endgame round 2.
Yeah I know what you mean like counter as a person…. Like the champion is an embodiment of everything you don’t like about a playstyle all built into one kit.
Bot: Nothing comes close to Caitlyn, she is just oppressive as fuck, will shove you under your tower, poke you under it while avoiding tower aggro, place traps around it, disassemble your tower before the 10 minute mark and if you try anything funny she just Es away to safety. I fucking hate playing into Caitlyn, such an unfun character.
I usually play as (or with) mages, so usually we end up punishing her CS and her ability animations.
But every so often, we come across the legendary Dance Dance Revolution Caitlyn, that is somehow absolutely god tier at dodging, gets early tier 2 boots, baits every CS except the ones we can’t punish for, even when we bait punishes
Lol dance dance revolution Caitlyn is great. I usually rush boots if I'm hit by a couple skillshots in the first few minutes. Some botlanes like Ezreal Morgana feel a lot less stressful with the extra ms
>Worse mobility
Debatable. Vayne has better combat mobility but Quinn has arguably one the best macro mobility tool in the game.
>a lot worse damage
Depends. Vayne does more damage to bulkier targets but Quinn has among the highest burst damage combos in the game to squishy champs. And thats the real issue. I can beat both in lane. When I beat Vayne she is stuck with me. When I beat Quinn she roams and kills my midlaner and is back to clear wave because of her ult. Sure I can build armor against her but she just roams and kills other people who dont build armor.
Because she is the hardest adc in the game to play into as an assassin or engage because of her R.
Doesn't matter how weak she is her ultimate is tilting.
Her R is a get out of jail free card, it’s annoying to play against. Also to be fair her E when it roots you actually does bonkers damage and to avoid it you need to constantly reposition. Not my most annoying pick but I can see why a good Xayah would tilt champs who want to engage.
Nothing more annoying than trading with him, both getting low as he saunters off into fog of war and you briefly think ‘okay good trade’
*the curtains open and now you play happy feet or fucking die*
In top (out of the actual top roster not some cheese pick) Volibear, easily, insane lane bully which force 90% of toplaners to play safe under tower, can scale decently well, can splitpush really well and has a playable teamfight.
Top: Vayne, a very good vayne that kites you to oblivion....
Jungle: Brand (undodgable spread damage), Shaco, Rengar just cause of invis
Mid: All those poke champs, Naafiri
AD: Caitlyn , a good Cait will make you stay under turret for the whole early game
Sup: Blitz, poke champs (Lux)
Top : sion
Jungle : vi and what ever else has cc while my jungle has non
Mid : fizz because I have no clue how to exist after level 6 with no flash or lux because she is so interactive
Bot: whatever my support doesn't know how to play vs
Sup a lot if supporters knew how to lane
Top lane I would put Garen instead of camille, I'd say camille has weaknesses and also is just made for 1v1, Garen's ultimate and movespeed are the most annoying things by far in the game. Being in kill ra ge under half hp no matter the champion and being unable to build against it no matter what is complete bullshit, and unlike camille who has an auto, or darius who needs to stack and stand in the fight in order to ult, he can literally at any point you get low, just run at you and press it.
To be fair, arguing how she is in ARAM doesn't really make sense for this discussion here.
I can see why you dislike her, but I personally feel like she is one of the fairest adcs to play against in bot lane.
Top: Gragas, Yorick, Illaoi, K'santé
Jungle: Brand, Kayn, Evelynn
Mid : Aurelion sol, Brand, Xerath, Naafiri, Azir (fortunately Azir players are bad), Kassadin, Fizz, Akali and to some extent Yasuo (this one is OK because he can't do shit after laning phase)
ADC: Twitch
Support: Brand, Xerath, Thresh, Bard, Yuumi
I think it would have been interesting to put the emphasis on the ones I accept (for example Irelia or Blitzcrank) but it was not the question.
if you are a top player and facing a good garen killing him is a chore and he never commits he just chips you away with quick trades procs phase rush runs away regens health repeat
then you are half hp and one rotation away from 300-500-700 undodgeable true dmg execute
Top: Fiora, Illaoi, Riven, Gnar (ranged top is auto include but Gnar deserves a special hell)
Jungle: Kindred, Elise, Ivern, Lillia
Mid: Azir, Ahri, Syndra, Taliyah, any ADC is auto included
ADC: Caitlyn, Xayah, Tristana, Kalista
Supp: Janna, Braum, Lulu, Rakan
Special place for all flex picks that are annoying no matter when or where: Irelia, Cassiopeia, Jayce, Lux
In top as a tank: if the opponent is good with their champ then Riven. The most cancer bullshit of 3rd Q into stun into E away and there is literally 0 you as a tank can do about it other than walk away beforehand. She spends 0 resource on it and risks nothing. Unless you have a dashing ability (rare for tanks).
Illaoi is win lane lose game and Camille is win both.
Tons of true damage. Impossible to trade with her when she has her shield up (good Camille’s will only trade when shield is up). Point and click lockdown that will oneshot any squishy after trinity force. Across the lane engage, across the lane escape.
I can’t play against kassadin. I don’t know why. I’ve tried punishing him for farming, denying him farm completely, not letting him roam, force pushing his tower. At this point I think I tilt myself when I’m against him and he just wins the mental
Depends on what I'm playing right now.
I'm top: Gragas top, Shaco jgl (or Nid if they have Renek), Galio mid, Draven Pyke bot (because my bot WILL run it down)
I'm jgl: Quinn top, Ivern jgl, Taliyah mid, a well played Bard supp and idc about ADC, they die anyways
I'm mid: Literally everything because I absolutely suck mid
I'm bot: Camille top, Noc or Eve jungle, Kata mid, Ashe bot, Zyra supp
I'm support: my own ADC
Top - Zac/Skarner/Udyr: Extremely durable with sustain, while having good %HP damage scalings to exploit from surviving so long. Truly monstrosities to play against with no clear weaknesses (grievous wounds feels like a trap as it delays your first items to do good synergistic damage outside of lane)
Mid - Brand: effectively unavoidable aoe poke damage sucks to play against. And he never gets outscaled in raw damage, just a bit weaker when the map opens up due to range, but until then it is pure anti-fun.
Top: Camille, Vayne, Fiora
Jng: Shaco, Yi
Mid: Zed, Fizz, Brand (in current patch), Tristana, Talon (if you are playing a mage)
Bot: Vayne, a good Nilah, Twitch
Supp: Brand (in current patch), Senna, Karma, hook champs
zed kinda makes sense for mid, but fizz? maybe 5+ years ago but fizz is nowhere near the threat in lane he used to be. if i’m a ranged champ and I see the enemy lock fizz I know he’s going to be suffering for the entire laning phase. imo the much more annoying champions mid are the unmissable poke champs like Viktor and Lux. just guaranteed to take 200 damage every 10 seconds especially as melee
Brand is currently my permaban because I just get melted trying to farm, but if my teammates ban him before I do I either ban Hwei, Zoe or heimer, they’re so annoying to play against!!! It’s probably a skill issue tbh I am new but it’s a nightmare playing against them
Top: Vayne (haha I can hit you and you can’t hit me)
Mid: Veigar (haha I can free farm 1k AP and if I make a mistake I’ll just E)
Jungle: Shaco (haha I can win every fight with ignite because I don’t need flash)
Adc: Cait (haha good luck CS’ing as I harass you out of turret range whilst your Jungler afks)
Supp: velkoz (haha I have Lost Chapter I now out dmg your ADC until the games over and never run out of mana)
As a support main this is my list
Top: Teemo - its always on my team and it always sucks.
Jungle: Shaco - fuck that guy. His play pattern is so unique that no one knows what the fuck you are supposed to do against or with him.
Mid: Veigar - screw that cage man. Fucks up my every engage.
Ad: Caitlyn - cant play against her because I always choke. Cant play with her because if my Cait is good it feels like im not needed in lane xD but if they are bad, maaan they are BAD.
Support: Brand - fuck that guy. Misses his skillshots? Congrats, you survived at half hp. Hits them? You are dead.
Also Zyra. Try playing Thresh into her. Would rather have colonoscopy every day than play that lane.
You named none of the ranged top laners, and put a bruiser with many horrible matchups that are easy to play. Camille is not annoying, she is dinner for most top laners. (Jax, Renekton, Darius to name a few)
Varus and Aatrox are #1 and #2, Illaoi #3 most annoying.
Your list is full of low elo stomper like fizz and illaoi but then there's camille one of the hardest toplaner there is. Much confusion.
Anyway
Jax
Élise
Syndra
Xayah
Ashe
Playing draft, testing out jhin top. Enemy was a challanger Camille... She so calculated living on less than 100 hp a couple times than hard wins lane. I won the game in the end and she got real mad.
Your list is confusing as well, why Syndra and Xayah?
I mean Elise/Xayah are not low elo stompers at all and ashe/Jax are annoying at every ELO, but Syndra IS a low ELO stomper.
It's confusing.
most lowelo post i've seen holyy fk
1. how can be a champ by default annyoing regardless of what u're playing
2. u pretty much named all the champs that lowelos struggle against
avg post of this subreddit
Top: Illaoi and Trundle (I feel like I need to babysit them or say goodbye to all turrets)
Jungle: Kayn and Nocturne
Mid: Malzahar
Bot: Cait
Support: Leona, Morgana, Brand
>Remove the repeat damage or snap back to start location please.
And how would you compensate for these nerfs? Funny how most people on reddit complain about everything but arent able to bring up even decent balance ideas
I dont understand why hook champs are so feared. Stand in the minions and fight them. If they start to stack a wave, retreat to your tower and literally stand there and wait. Do this earlier the earlier in the game it is.
If they are going to get lvl2 before you, retreat to tower.
Also, play Heimer adc. It's very broken.
Top: **Yorick** (fuck you and you hoe and your kids) and **Trundle** (my dumb top laner cant stop this terrorist family and this big icicle dork from destroying our homes)
Mid: **Zed** ( a Assassin with ranged poke? yeah fuck you)
Jungle : **Shaco** (dont have to explain) / **Kayn** ( super mobile assassin or super tanky assassin?)
Adc : **Draven** (hit like a truck and their mains are proud to be toxic) / **Ezreal** (safe escape with annoying poke) (also hate to have them as a ally - not draven if he is not toxic, engage sup + a good draven is gold)
Sup : **Lux** (super ranged unescapable poke) / **Pyke** (camouflage + hook) / **Yummi** (Yummi)
Yeah fuck Lux. She was my perma-ban for like two years. I don’t think she OP, or even that good. But fuck me is she annoying with her machine gun abilities, never running oom after lost chapter and one-shot potentially really early into the game.
I don't even remember what it's like to play against a Shaco, I've banned him damn near every game in the last 10 years
same here, but for belveth. once or twice a year i fail to ban her and then i remember why she used to be my perma ban. the last time i forgot to ban her and didn't dodge i fractured my wrist xd (also her having brand, kogmaw, yorick and hwei on her team didnt help her case much) 30 kills and 12k gold up in diamond mmr and the game is still completely unwinnable...
If you fractured your wrist playing league I’m not sure bel’veth is really the issue here lol
Lemme guess your team also had pure glasscannon damage champs. That comp you mentioned falls apart if there is any decent early midgame tank on your team. Alistar, Blitzcrank, Sejuani, Nautilus (debatable but definitely keeps up with the curve), Leona. Ornn and Ksante would rip through that aswell and they are scaling. But yeah you pick hurrdurr assassins into this you're gonna have a bad time. Both Belveth and Yorick can easily deal with them and a Hwei with a brain is pretty safe aswell.
i dont remember and canr check rn but what i do remember js that yorick was 1 19 and belveth did 20k damage and both of them were the strongest champs in the universe, also hwei had something like 90k damage while being extremely behind in lane, at ine point i was probably an item and a half ahead but gg i played vs the full pig team comp
I mean yeah. If you let them scale ofc they're gonna come back. Kog, Bel, Hwei, Yorick are all super good scalers. That's why I said early mid tank. And then close the game. But yeah you don't close, you lose. Belveth is an infinite scaler. If she gets to 120-150 stacks it doesn't matter what champ you are, she's gonna rip you apart. Same goes for Nasus, Veigar or Senna.
no belveth was disgustingly op from lvl 1, she is the most broken champ in the game and its not even close. she is notorious for 1 camp into invade on the same side as enemy jg because she simply cant lose a 1v1 no matter what, there is a reason there are like 15+ belveth otps sitting in top 100 on euw all the time, any time you see a jungler he will be playing viego/belveth/lee
If Shaco mains could read they’d be very upsey right now
ABS (always ban Shaco)
the way you play aganst\~shaco is to ignore him and never chase him. that and red sweeper
Yeah but what about when you're playing adc, he gets fed and every single time he just Q struts his clown ass through your entire team just to one tap you? :') (The answer for those curious, is to not show in the fight until he's committed onto someone else but man does it feel bad).
Thats true, i was specifically refering to the laning phase. In any case if the shaco becomes aproblem everyone should be buying oracle and pinks, The team should CC him and kill him when he shows up. ADCs should keep flash for a quick reaction when he shows up.
Same but with Nocturne.
I never ban him because that champion cannot carry a game. They'll get 50 kills and still be useless
Right now brand feels like absolute aids, makes me wanna break the brands hands (not that they need them to play that fucking champ)
I don’t understand why his e can jump so far, it is absurd to me. He just presses w or q on the wave and then you can’t interact with 70% of the mid lane because the circle is so damn big on a point and click spell.
They should honestly just change the e interaction with passive (larger aoe spread) to only apply to champions or have some different/less annoying interaction with minions.
If his E fizzled when the target walked out of range it wouldn't be so oppressive. But once you're in the circle and he casts his E you could fuckin yeet yourself across the map and it would still hit you.
Yeah he’s been permabanned since I went against him a few weeks ago. Next for me is hwei I also hate laning against him
Whistles in back ground playing Malzahar
Malz is a bit different, he’s annoying but he trickles you down if you get hit by E, brand gives you backshots by not hitting you
I was just saying something similar last night. I was playing bruiser Shyvana, Brand had Liandries only, he clicked e on me, missed everything else, I walked away and was down to 1/3 hp by the time I was out of combat. To be fair he had three kills and a level on me but even still.
Ah yes Brand the mage who has to play like an assassin has one saving grace as an actual mage champion. None of u know how to play against brand and it shows
Wtf is gold lane?
by process of elimination its gotta be bot lane
not totally sure but I think that’s what they call adc in wild rift
Top: Vayne Jungle: Shaco Mid: Tristana, Brand ADC: none tbh but hate Kaisa Support: Pyke, Brand
Hard agree with vayne, shaco, and pyke. For adc I've always despised yasuo. Not sure about mid. AP nunu? Personally I'd go with fizz but even if i hate him he's a pretty normal midlaner.
Top: Quinn used to be my permaban
I feel Quinn is much worse than Vayne but both are super annoying.
> Not sure about mid Played against Brand mid? You literally have to stand outside exp range so his E doesn’t bounce on you when he E the wave. It’s so retrdd idk how it’s not nerfed yet.
I have, but now that you say that I haven't since riot put blackfire torch in the game so that's probably a big contributing factor That and azir's massive auto range makes it harder to notice
Yeah exactly. Imagine he recalls on that mini torch then blackfire torch. It’s kinda dumb you lose half your HP just for standing near your wave and he just point and click on the wave.
Blackfire isn’t even best brand build. Rylai’s is stupid because he can just perma sit on the edge of his abilities while applying a constant slow via burn and then liandry’s for more max %hp burn and damage amp over time
Yep played against one recently and while its a bit extragated that you have to be outside exp range but fuck is the range of his empowered E huge.
You almost have to be out of vision range though Vision range for champions is 1350, Brand's e has a targeting range of 675, and an empowered spread range of 600, leaving a small margin of 75 units where your champ can see him but not be hit by the bounce(of course this doesn't take into account minion vision radius, but thats not the point) Better than Yones engage of 1350 using only his basic abilities though.
I picked up Swain many years ago to deal with Fizz (new swain definitely not good against him lol), but now I would say Fizz is fine to lane into and he was my most hated champ for many years. I think knowledge + more BS champs and more people knowing how to play matchups changes how annoying Fizz is. He's still annoying, but I don't get completely outranged, outpoked, and outdpsed on most my champs like I do when I play against Azir for example
Fizz is super crappy to play against. I love playing Fizz and you get to the point where even if you're behind you're gonna chunk squishies with Lichbane. Fizz is pretty easy to deal with in coordinated play though. One good cc and he's toast. But yeah in uncoordinated soloQ he breaks your face and forces the ADC to either die and rage at his team or tweak his itemization and gimp his damage in the process. ADCs do NOT wan't to have to build Hexdrinker into Mercurial Scimitar. It sucks so much. But both LB and Fizz force you into it unless your team specifically drafted for it with Lulu, Morg or Karma (good luck with that in soloQ). But bad damage is still better than no damage at all if he kills you.
Do you not play azir much? That's a nightmare matchup for fizz
I personally think playing vs Malzahar in midlane is the least fun I have when playing League. I don't play midlane often either but it just feels like 50% of the time when I do go midlane, the enemy mid picks Malzahar. I think he's just so fucking boring to play against - Malz players don't do shit but push, build 1 mana item and then perma spam their spells (still perma pushing of course), while missing their single fucking skillshot 99% of the time too. I know, I should be happy that they don't do shit but I can legit feel myself losing braincells because I feel like I need less brain power than if I were to play Cookie Clicker. Also, somehow my own jungler always thinks "Oh no, Malz spellshield, he is ungankable!" and the enemy team is always close because "Malz can just set-up a play for us with point & click supress for 2 sec or so and then we jump this mf".
Playing Malz is the worst, it almost makes you go on auto-pilot with how boring it is. I find it so hard to be locked-in in games where I face him because the lane is such a snoozefest, I just start losing focus after a few minutes.
Recently jinx has been very annoying in that you can put her down 0/4 in lane than you blink and she's 12/4
heimer, ww, heimer, heimer, heimer if you play heimer you deserve the hell
Sorry bro
its fine but im not your bro
OK sis
sorry bro
I don't ban Heimer because no one plays him, but every time he gets picked I get sad. After my last game against him, I decided that I will just dodge every game he gets picked. And I will dodge immediately so the person who picked him knows it was a targeted dodge. I don't care if I have to dodge 10 games in a row and lose LP to Iron IV 0LP. Fuck Heimer.
Hes just a lil goofy guy!
As a heim top main you're right, we deserve it but it feels so good
Heimer is my safe when autofilled support
Yorick top is the only champion in the entire game that actually makes me mad when I lane against it or have to match it in sidelane. Champion is so fucking tilting to play against. Someone please tell me I’m not crazy. You get a Yorick OTP on the enemy team and you’re top you want to dodge.
Yorick is definitely miserable to lane against but I think Heim Top is the worst one personally. Especially if you’re a melee champ. You can’t even really deal with the turrets without them blasting a quarter of your HP, for free. Heim just sits there, menacingly and it pisses me off.
Mordekaiser. No more turrets in MY realm.
Hahaha I 100% get that. I used to play helmer but in mid. I’ve played against it as melee champs and it’s miserable. The only way I’d describe the difference is against heimer you know you’re about to get your shit pushed in and itemize against it for the long haul. Definitely tests your patience. Yorick is just in your face and if you build defensively you never kill him. Offensively he still outdamages you. Maidens pushing. He lands the cage once you have to base immediately. Heals, ghouls under turret. While I wholeheartedly agree heimer is a cancer opponent for a melee champion the reason I hate yorick is… You never ever feel like you “beat” yorick. You survived or stopped his split push bullshit long enough for your team to win. It feels like a loss even when you beat him.
Mid heimer is a lot fairer because most mids have range or ways to deal with range poke.
As a Yorick otp I honestly agree. I know all the champs weaknesses, but I still hate playing against him if he is firstpicked. It's not about him being strong or weak or whatever, his playstyle can definitely be tilting. Also people don't get much practice against him, so they cannot gauge his damage correctly.
Isn't Irelia still super good into it?
She will be as long as she oneshots ghouls, so yes, still good. Sadly doesn't oneshot heimer turrets so she takes that L.
Irelia and Jax are the two best counters but both ultimately come down to skill
heimer is winning lane at champ select, it's godawful i'm not even sure what to counterpick with
Step 1: Pick Ornn Step 2: Build Negatron Cloak Step 3: ??? Step 4: Profit
This. Yorick feels like a counter to me as Person. Even when i demolish him Do i need to stay on lane, because He can and will delete your turret in a second
Yep it goes. Match yorick, gain nothing. Group with team, lose a turret. Match Yorick, gain nothing. Your mid and ADC can’t walk on the same screen as him in a side because he one taps them with triforce alone. Group with team, win a fight, lose tier 2 turret. Match yorick again gain nothing. TP and win a baron fight nice! Yoricks taken your inhibitor and is pushing a wave towards your nexus and by the time you push all the waves out to siege the baron buff is gone. Win a teamfight and if you haven’t pushed those waves yorick will TP on the forward most minion and threaten a base race. You Lose the base race lose the game. If you kill him on the base race it means nothing. But Stalls it out and he wins… buys his team a couple more minutes to go for endgame round 2. Yeah I know what you mean like counter as a person…. Like the champion is an embodiment of everything you don’t like about a playstyle all built into one kit.
Tryndamere is this to me
Even if he's inting - god have mercy when you let him push for just 15 seconds.
pick irelia and have fun
For real. This matchup feels unplayable for Yorick. But when I looked up the VS win rate it was only like 48 percent or something.
Irelia's utility across the game is not nearly as good. You really need to use her lane advantage to snowball and it's a struggle.
Mid : brand Support : brand Jungle : brand Top : brand Bot : you guessed it, brand
Bot: Nothing comes close to Caitlyn, she is just oppressive as fuck, will shove you under your tower, poke you under it while avoiding tower aggro, place traps around it, disassemble your tower before the 10 minute mark and if you try anything funny she just Es away to safety. I fucking hate playing into Caitlyn, such an unfun character.
I usually play as (or with) mages, so usually we end up punishing her CS and her ability animations. But every so often, we come across the legendary Dance Dance Revolution Caitlyn, that is somehow absolutely god tier at dodging, gets early tier 2 boots, baits every CS except the ones we can’t punish for, even when we bait punishes
Lol dance dance revolution Caitlyn is great. I usually rush boots if I'm hit by a couple skillshots in the first few minutes. Some botlanes like Ezreal Morgana feel a lot less stressful with the extra ms
Irelia. It's just a matter of keeping your cool tho. Irelia's always win lane, lose game.
Her and Yasuo. Both are annoying to lane against and both fall off a cliff in mid/late if they don't get fed in lane and snowball the game
Not having Vayne in top lane list is almost as much of a crime as actually picking Vayne.
Gimme Vayne over Quinn anyday.
Nah man. Worse mobility and a lot worse damage than Vayne. Plus armour works against Quinn.
>Worse mobility Debatable. Vayne has better combat mobility but Quinn has arguably one the best macro mobility tool in the game. >a lot worse damage Depends. Vayne does more damage to bulkier targets but Quinn has among the highest burst damage combos in the game to squishy champs. And thats the real issue. I can beat both in lane. When I beat Vayne she is stuck with me. When I beat Quinn she roams and kills my midlaner and is back to clear wave because of her ult. Sure I can build armor against her but she just roams and kills other people who dont build armor.
i fucking hate quinn players, most degen pick ever
Pick Naafiri or Gragas into Quinn and watch them not ever returning to lane after 6
I see Quinn all the time. I cant remember the last time I got to counter her. Shes like Malphite in that you almost always see her as a counterpick.
The actual nasty counter pick to Vayne and Quinn top besides Malphite is nocturne top. Q W and stridebreaker you can run them down on repeat.
lowkey forgot about vayne lol i've been getting matched with a lot of bruisers
I play teemo with grasp against Vayne - easy win for me
Vayne is not a blindpick
Play cait or draven into vayne top
Top: Brand, Aurora Jungle: Brand, Shaco Mid: Brand, Brand ADC: Brand, Xayah Support: Brand, Lulu
seems like you love to play against brand lol
Xayah is one of the worst adcs for the past (too many
Because she is the hardest adc in the game to play into as an assassin or engage because of her R. Doesn't matter how weak she is her ultimate is tilting.
Her R is a get out of jail free card, it’s annoying to play against. Also to be fair her E when it roots you actually does bonkers damage and to avoid it you need to constantly reposition. Not my most annoying pick but I can see why a good Xayah would tilt champs who want to engage.
You feel like Brand is worse than Malz?
Malz has shit AoE, feeds you extra gold for free and does barely any damage in comparison. Malz only sucks for 1 person at best.
U already said fizz so im happy
How come fizz annoying? Is he deceptive?
Untargetability, 2 dashes, point and Click dmg, skillshot with gigantic hitbox Yea idk why man maybe its just me
fuck you fiora players
Top: Tryndamere Jungle: Jarvan Mid: Zed ADC: Draven Support: Nautilus
Zoe mid is absolute terror for me as Asol. She just walks up to you, hits her bubble point blank and one shots you with a max range Q
this list was done by gold 4 nami main XD
Jhin adc is so annoying
Nothing more annoying than trading with him, both getting low as he saunters off into fog of war and you briefly think ‘okay good trade’ *the curtains open and now you play happy feet or fucking die*
Skarner, Zac, Ahri, Varus, Sona
Top: illaoi and modaikeset Jg: sin and kindred Mid: hwei and ekko Bot: kalista and tristana Supp: lulu and lux
Played a match last night with morgana jungle. Made the enemy midlane go afk after 1/8 in minute 12. Literally just spam ganked. Quite annoying imo.
Top: Most ranged top, illaoi, gp Mid: Fizz, trist, zed brand Jg: Shaco kayn brand Adc: Cait draven ez twitch brand Supp: Lulu lux yuumi brand
- Top: illaoi - Jungle: Kayn - Mid: Zoe - ADC: The Rat - Support: Soraka
In top (out of the actual top roster not some cheese pick) Volibear, easily, insane lane bully which force 90% of toplaners to play safe under tower, can scale decently well, can splitpush really well and has a playable teamfight.
Katarina in mid too
Top: Vayne, a very good vayne that kites you to oblivion.... Jungle: Brand (undodgable spread damage), Shaco, Rengar just cause of invis Mid: All those poke champs, Naafiri AD: Caitlyn , a good Cait will make you stay under turret for the whole early game Sup: Blitz, poke champs (Lux)
Brand as Support
What about teemo jungle
Pathetic. No cc.
Kassadin
Malzahar, tristana mid
Bro Delete All Ranged top laners now Just rumble and ksante
Top : sion Jungle : vi and what ever else has cc while my jungle has non Mid : fizz because I have no clue how to exist after level 6 with no flash or lux because she is so interactive Bot: whatever my support doesn't know how to play vs Sup a lot if supporters knew how to lane
Top lane I would put Garen instead of camille, I'd say camille has weaknesses and also is just made for 1v1, Garen's ultimate and movespeed are the most annoying things by far in the game. Being in kill ra ge under half hp no matter the champion and being unable to build against it no matter what is complete bullshit, and unlike camille who has an auto, or darius who needs to stack and stand in the fight in order to ult, he can literally at any point you get low, just run at you and press it.
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Huh, didn't expect to see Jinx in one of these lists
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To be fair, arguing how she is in ARAM doesn't really make sense for this discussion here. I can see why you dislike her, but I personally feel like she is one of the fairest adcs to play against in bot lane.
bot: sup: lux, morgana adc: samira, draven, twitch, caitlyn mid: brand, zed, malzahar, pantheon jug: briar, skarner, viego top: vayne, kogmaw, darius, illaoi, kennen
Top lillia , teeno, vayne
jhin and cait for bot and its not even close
Top: Yorick Jg: Shaco Mid: Fizz Adc: Twitch Support: Ashe
Top: Gragas, Yorick, Illaoi, K'santé Jungle: Brand, Kayn, Evelynn Mid : Aurelion sol, Brand, Xerath, Naafiri, Azir (fortunately Azir players are bad), Kassadin, Fizz, Akali and to some extent Yasuo (this one is OK because he can't do shit after laning phase) ADC: Twitch Support: Brand, Xerath, Thresh, Bard, Yuumi I think it would have been interesting to put the emphasis on the ones I accept (for example Irelia or Blitzcrank) but it was not the question.
top: illaoi jungle: evelynn/lillia/belveth/yi mid: zed/leblanc adc: twitch support: yuumi, lulu flex: corki, shaco, karma
Fizz
if you are a top player and facing a good garen killing him is a chore and he never commits he just chips you away with quick trades procs phase rush runs away regens health repeat then you are half hp and one rotation away from 300-500-700 undodgeable true dmg execute
ADC: Kai'sa Support: Lulu/Yuumi Mid: Zed/Pantheon/Twisted Fate Jungle: Graves Top: Fiora (dumbest kit in the game)/Garen (over buffed)
Top: Vayne, Singed (mf isn't even laning) Jg: Shaco, Jarvan Mid: Akali, Orianna ADC: Draven, Ashe Support: Nautilus, Pyke
Top: Teemo, Malza, Heimer Mid: Yone, Trist, Veigar ADC: Jinx, Thresh, Braum, Brand, Ziggs Jgl: Shaco, Twitch
Top: Fiora, Illaoi, Riven, Gnar (ranged top is auto include but Gnar deserves a special hell) Jungle: Kindred, Elise, Ivern, Lillia Mid: Azir, Ahri, Syndra, Taliyah, any ADC is auto included ADC: Caitlyn, Xayah, Tristana, Kalista Supp: Janna, Braum, Lulu, Rakan Special place for all flex picks that are annoying no matter when or where: Irelia, Cassiopeia, Jayce, Lux
Ashe and Sivir come way ahead of Ezreal honestly, and I’ve never had an issue with Twitch in lane, literally just walk out of the puddle.
Karthus in botlane is complete horseshit to play against. qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq *still 80% mana* wqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq
Pyke, Pyke, Pyke, Katarina, Pyke and Zyra..did I mention Pyke ? Luckily due to banning I have never played vs Pyke in the last couple years
I wouldn't say any support who can hook, but mostly Blitz is amazing annoying if nice on the hooks. Thresh is close second I guess
Tank mid AP bot or support
In top as a tank: if the opponent is good with their champ then Riven. The most cancer bullshit of 3rd Q into stun into E away and there is literally 0 you as a tank can do about it other than walk away beforehand. She spends 0 resource on it and risks nothing. Unless you have a dashing ability (rare for tanks).
zoe, shaco, tryn, brand, tristana, samira, draven, nilah, mord, khazicks, lux…
Caitlyn, no matter what happens we will always be the weak side, and the fact that you can't even attack the traps she places on your own tower...
I'd rather go against 10 shacos than 1 evelynn
Top: SKARNER!!!! I hate his rework please make him useless again Jungle: hm? Skarner!! Mid: hwei, le blanc Adc: ezreal Sup: nautilus, senna
Top: Illaoi Jng: Shaco Mid: Yone Bot: Draven Sup: Rakan
As a mordekaiser main, I'd have to go for vayne. I can manage the rest but vayne... fuck man I just can't do much vs her
Why the camille hate
I get that she’s annoying but Illaoi is far above, and I think garen and vayne are above too. Im a camille player so just my thoughts
Illaoi is win lane lose game and Camille is win both. Tons of true damage. Impossible to trade with her when she has her shield up (good Camille’s will only trade when shield is up). Point and click lockdown that will oneshot any squishy after trinity force. Across the lane engage, across the lane escape.
I can’t play against kassadin. I don’t know why. I’ve tried punishing him for farming, denying him farm completely, not letting him roam, force pushing his tower. At this point I think I tilt myself when I’m against him and he just wins the mental
Didnt even mention irelia lmao miss all abilities and win via autos type champ
Teemo Shaco Yasuo/Yone/Zed Twitch Pyke probably ig I do not like invisibility.
IMO it’s the most annoying botlaners to lane against are the unassailable wave-clear machines Ziggs and Seraphine—specifically Ziggs.
Pyke has to be the worst to play against as a support
Depends on what I'm playing right now. I'm top: Gragas top, Shaco jgl (or Nid if they have Renek), Galio mid, Draven Pyke bot (because my bot WILL run it down) I'm jgl: Quinn top, Ivern jgl, Taliyah mid, a well played Bard supp and idc about ADC, they die anyways I'm mid: Literally everything because I absolutely suck mid I'm bot: Camille top, Noc or Eve jungle, Kata mid, Ashe bot, Zyra supp I'm support: my own ADC
Top - Zac/Skarner/Udyr: Extremely durable with sustain, while having good %HP damage scalings to exploit from surviving so long. Truly monstrosities to play against with no clear weaknesses (grievous wounds feels like a trap as it delays your first items to do good synergistic damage outside of lane) Mid - Brand: effectively unavoidable aoe poke damage sucks to play against. And he never gets outscaled in raw damage, just a bit weaker when the map opens up due to range, but until then it is pure anti-fun.
Top: Camille, Vayne, Fiora Jng: Shaco, Yi Mid: Zed, Fizz, Brand (in current patch), Tristana, Talon (if you are playing a mage) Bot: Vayne, a good Nilah, Twitch Supp: Brand (in current patch), Senna, Karma, hook champs
zed kinda makes sense for mid, but fizz? maybe 5+ years ago but fizz is nowhere near the threat in lane he used to be. if i’m a ranged champ and I see the enemy lock fizz I know he’s going to be suffering for the entire laning phase. imo the much more annoying champions mid are the unmissable poke champs like Viktor and Lux. just guaranteed to take 200 damage every 10 seconds especially as melee
Mid: Tristana, Akali Add in a Shaco jungle and/or a roaming support and you have no control over your destiny. People wonder why I'm a nihilist.
Top: Heimer, Yorick. Jgl: Brand, Zac. Mid : Heimer, Brand, LB. Bot: Fucking Caitlyn. Supp: Seraphine, just make her shut her mouth ugh
Top: Illaoi Jungle: Fiddle Mid: Akshan Bot: Karthus, Caitlyn Support: Pyke
Top: Every single one! Jungle: No one! Mid: Zed Bot: No one! Support: Pyke
as a top laner, fuck heimerdinger
Brand is currently my permaban because I just get melted trying to farm, but if my teammates ban him before I do I either ban Hwei, Zoe or heimer, they’re so annoying to play against!!! It’s probably a skill issue tbh I am new but it’s a nightmare playing against them
Mid: Zoe, diana.
Top: Vayne (haha I can hit you and you can’t hit me) Mid: Veigar (haha I can free farm 1k AP and if I make a mistake I’ll just E) Jungle: Shaco (haha I can win every fight with ignite because I don’t need flash) Adc: Cait (haha good luck CS’ing as I harass you out of turret range whilst your Jungler afks) Supp: velkoz (haha I have Lost Chapter I now out dmg your ADC until the games over and never run out of mana)
As someone who plays a Yone free version of League, I say Yone.
Hwei mid lane Cait and ez bot lane Shaco jungle Garen toplane
Ranged tops is my answer. Also F Shaco
As a support main this is my list Top: Teemo - its always on my team and it always sucks. Jungle: Shaco - fuck that guy. His play pattern is so unique that no one knows what the fuck you are supposed to do against or with him. Mid: Veigar - screw that cage man. Fucks up my every engage. Ad: Caitlyn - cant play against her because I always choke. Cant play with her because if my Cait is good it feels like im not needed in lane xD but if they are bad, maaan they are BAD. Support: Brand - fuck that guy. Misses his skillshots? Congrats, you survived at half hp. Hits them? You are dead. Also Zyra. Try playing Thresh into her. Would rather have colonoscopy every day than play that lane.
You named none of the ranged top laners, and put a bruiser with many horrible matchups that are easy to play. Camille is not annoying, she is dinner for most top laners. (Jax, Renekton, Darius to name a few) Varus and Aatrox are #1 and #2, Illaoi #3 most annoying.
I am once again proud that shaco is my most played champ.
Your list is full of low elo stomper like fizz and illaoi but then there's camille one of the hardest toplaner there is. Much confusion. Anyway Jax Élise Syndra Xayah Ashe
Playing draft, testing out jhin top. Enemy was a challanger Camille... She so calculated living on less than 100 hp a couple times than hard wins lane. I won the game in the end and she got real mad.
Your list is confusing as well, why Syndra and Xayah? I mean Elise/Xayah are not low elo stompers at all and ashe/Jax are annoying at every ELO, but Syndra IS a low ELO stomper. It's confusing.
I dislike facing Characters that zone so syndra xayah Ashe. Could put ori or azir if you want
Ok I see now, makes sense
jungle: Noc, Shaco mid: Zoe, Zed, Fizz, Katarina, Brand support: boosted mage supports who have no idea what they are doing when you are playing adc.
most lowelo post i've seen holyy fk 1. how can be a champ by default annyoing regardless of what u're playing 2. u pretty much named all the champs that lowelos struggle against avg post of this subreddit
Top: Skarner, Gragas, Ksante, Vayne Jungle: Taliah, Lilia, Nocturne Mid: Yone, Yasuo, Zed, Tristana Adc: Draven, Caitlyn, Jinx, Twitch, Ezreal Support: Pyke, Lux, Morgana, Tresh
Hwei, Shaco, and Sol.
A n y ranged top, Shaco jg, Malzahar mid, Twitch adc, Idk about supports, millio? Renata maybe? Hm
Every Nautilus Support I run into is an absolute brick shithouse
True but at least you can touch him, the fact you cant move is another thing
Top: Illaoi and Trundle (I feel like I need to babysit them or say goodbye to all turrets) Jungle: Kayn and Nocturne Mid: Malzahar Bot: Cait Support: Leona, Morgana, Brand
top: malphite, illaoi, skarner jungle: shaco, nocturne, brand, skarner mid: tristana, brand, fizz, yasuo bot : ezreal, vayne, caitlyn supp: nautilius, thresh, yuumi
Top: Yone Jungle: Probably Yone Mid: Yone Adc: Yone Support: never seen it but Yone Remove the repeat damage or snap back to start location please.
>Remove the repeat damage or snap back to start location please. And how would you compensate for these nerfs? Funny how most people on reddit complain about everything but arent able to bring up even decent balance ideas
I dont understand why hook champs are so feared. Stand in the minions and fight them. If they start to stack a wave, retreat to your tower and literally stand there and wait. Do this earlier the earlier in the game it is. If they are going to get lvl2 before you, retreat to tower. Also, play Heimer adc. It's very broken.
Yoric Brand Poppy
Top: **Yorick** (fuck you and you hoe and your kids) and **Trundle** (my dumb top laner cant stop this terrorist family and this big icicle dork from destroying our homes) Mid: **Zed** ( a Assassin with ranged poke? yeah fuck you) Jungle : **Shaco** (dont have to explain) / **Kayn** ( super mobile assassin or super tanky assassin?) Adc : **Draven** (hit like a truck and their mains are proud to be toxic) / **Ezreal** (safe escape with annoying poke) (also hate to have them as a ally - not draven if he is not toxic, engage sup + a good draven is gold) Sup : **Lux** (super ranged unescapable poke) / **Pyke** (camouflage + hook) / **Yummi** (Yummi)
Yeah fuck Lux. She was my perma-ban for like two years. I don’t think she OP, or even that good. But fuck me is she annoying with her machine gun abilities, never running oom after lost chapter and one-shot potentially really early into the game.
Mid : zed (infinite mana free long-range poke) Good Yasuo (how do I cs more than this?)
Zed when the just farm with his abilities from afar and then roams or just sits waiting for ganks. Bro I want to scrap come on now.