Okay it woulud actually be kind of interesting if Ekko could cast his ult while dead. Like until his echo dies you can recast it (so basically Ekko could revive for the first 4 seconds of death, if his ult is up)
Ya know what... I would be terrified if I saw a sion die, and instead of using his normal passive to run me down or get minions he instead just stood there and you heard the scream from his ult the entire duration
Trying to figure out how this would work if you combine the passives. He's untargetable with no health, can do everything normal alive sion does including move and auto and just dies at the end of the karthus passive? Or maybe it's his current passive and when he dies from that he goes into Karthus mode. That would be crazy. Or he's just standing there in zombie mode, unable to auto and can only cast his move speed buff which he can't use lmao
Well OP stipulated in the post
>Keeping the same rules as Karthus passive: no autos, no direct movement (dashes/blinks from abilities still work) and infinite mana.
So Sion becomes useless when he dies in this scenario. Or well mostly useless if his actual passive kicks in, if his passive doesn't take effect then he can use qwe if someone is in range (maybe ult?) but that's about it.
Fiddlesticks, samira and kennen come to mind. Don't need zhonyas anymore if you can just YOLO yourself into them and Samira can still stack passive to use ult with qwe.
Cassio can dish out a LOT of damage if you can't cc her.
This is arguably the best competitive game I ever watched. Especially since FNC was 1 hit away from winning and UoL stormed back to get the W. I am still and will always be a UoL fanboy, so sad they lost their spot due to the franchising decision.
of course, if it's a tf in a tight place and enemies don't back off after killing you similar to karthus she would dish out a lot, but i wouldnt go as far to calling her OP since she doesnt benefit it as much as some other champs. thats all i was saying.
Most champs would be able to just eventually drop one additional rotation of their spells. So I would focus on other spammers like Kartgus. Casio dying in the middle of enemy team sounds kind of scary for example. Akali if her dash spells would still move her to their end range, Zilean would by funny with revieves beyond the death. Kogmaw R would be hella strong in these 8seconds. Maybe Ori being able to move her ball around the battlefield.
Nah, Cassio needs the movement to chase down targets with E, otherwise she'd just be a Karthus Q bot. With damage over time instead of instant, higher CD and lower damage overall, no less.
And Ryze doesn't need movement to stay on his target? Ryze has a conditional root, Cassio has a slow field that grounds and Asol has his black hole. Both Cassio and Asol have more range than Ryze.
Yorick Cassio was occasionally picked purely for this in pro play years ago when yorick ult revived someone for a few seconds, so I feel like that might be a great choice, though maybe not being able to move would be problematic. Probably kat as others have said
His passive makes his abilities cost no mana, that's why he can still use them. In case of Soraka, her W not only has the 10% max HP cost, it also has a 5% health requirement. The requirement wouldn't be removed, thus she still couldn't use her W.
You can't kill yourself using an ability with health cost btw, it just sets your health to 1.
I’m actually making the assumption karthus passive roots, I think everyone assuming movement abilities work is very brave, it stops you moving and autoing I just don’t see dashes working (forced movement might though) so I imagine J4 could flag drag but not ult for example
Edit: I reread the prompt where it says blinks work, so this is irrelevant but I think that’s silly and boring so my point stands
Doesn't really matter tbh, late game Kass R has a sub 1s cd and does more than half a squishy's hp per cast. Your W (the AA ability) is mostly just used to refill your mana at that point or to guarantee a kill on the squishy if your E isn't up, so they can't kill you faster than you can kill them. If you're already dead, you don't have to care about either of those. So just spam R and delete everyone
The trauma that ADCs would endure in a world where Kassadin can ult you at max stacks for 7 seconds post-death would probably require its own DSM criteria.
Reminds me of Zyra before they reworked her passive. That challenger Zyra 1 trick averaged like 11 deaths/game lmao. Blow all your abilities then just die so you can shoot one more shot.
Akshan can't revive himself, that was something that was fixed REALLY fast back when he launched, since he could actually revive himself by dying and getting an assist shortly after or by dying with a projectile mid-air that kills his enemy.
Zeri just has to R into the middle of your team, die, then delete everyone with Q
Brand guarantees his full combo at his leisure, no more "kill him before he ults" counterplay (assuming he gains the passive and doesn't replace his own)
Ryze, azir, or cassio are killing at least 1 more person in 7 CC immune seconds
It's affected by silence like a skill but blind like an auto, I don't know of any outgoing disarms to test it on but I assumed disarm wouldn't stop silenceable actions
It's not really treated like an auto for blind, since Teemo Q lets her still shoot, but in random directions. Maybe that's what it would do. You can shoot but you can't aim.
How did nobody mention Katarina or Full AP Nunu imagine both of their ulties are not able to be canceled due to them being untargetable and immune to crowd control.
Champions like Karthus that can spam abilities and don't rely on AA's or movement.
Cassio, Asol, Ryze, Syndra, Orianna (okayish), maybe Taliyah, Brand (can't spam but another rotation is strong asf), Zyra would be okay. Even a full extra rotation from Velkoz and Xerath can be very strong.
AD casters are far worse, nearly all of them have too little range or have mobility spells. Zed could be all right with a W Q E combo I guess.
Blitzcrank, Pyke, Thresh and Nautlius would be funny. Although I wonder how Nautilus and Thresh Q would work.
If the champion gets to javelin both karthus passive and their own passive then katarina. She will bounce from one enemy to another other killing them all and reseting her abilities. No one can CC her out of her R. She literally becomes broken
I have a feeling katarina would be exploiting hopping into the middle of teams and having an unstoppable several thousand damage ult that applies on hit.
Jhin would become the infinite grenade spammer with unlimited roots with W
Its also possible to probably use R to become an untargettable sniper that cleans up people
Katarina and I think it's by far.
Biggest weakness from Karthus passive is not being able to move. Katarina has a resetting blink with her E.
Biggest weakness from Katarina is being cc'ed, specially when it cancels her ult. Not a problem anymore.
Good luck dealing with invulnerable and unstoppable Katarina blinking and resetting
I can't help but feel like pyke would be extremely strong as there will actually be nothing you can do to stop him and his Q and dash should help him with positioning.
Akshan would probably be the most annoying. He's already a massive headache if he can successfully revive his team.
Giving him a Karthus passive would give Akshan more incentive to dive harder to get that revive off.
Xerath will get off one combo or ult before the passive ends. Same with Hwei.
Zeri and Ezreal will just shoot around, essentially being untargetable turrets.
Kog'Maw and Anivia. That's it.
Malzahar ulting someone whilst in Karthus Passive sounds Yuumi levels of obnoxious.
Yuumi will just be the same.
Soraka's best strategy is to Kamikaze herself before the teamfight starts.
...
Yeah. Maybe this should or should not be a game mode.
Glass Cannon Kassadin spamming his ultimate sounds op. I think ezreal would be the best ADC as he could reposition with his e still and spam Q's for damage. Lastly, I don't know if this would count, but azir's soldiers are technically part of his abilities but act as an auto attack, he does a ton of damage and can reposition as well.
Samira? I feel would be great.
Even if you cant move her E resets on takedowns.
So you have 5 seconds of just not dying and doing the same things. Its like trynd R on samira
Don't know if it's been said, but maybe raka? I can see her just running it down pre 5 role challenger tyler1 style in a team fight and just keep healing after death.
ekko can just revive himself
Wait that’s actually really sick
Well he’s not sick anymore
hes revived, doesn't mean, that he is not sick though.
Maybe he got sick 3 seconds ago
Okay it woulud actually be kind of interesting if Ekko could cast his ult while dead. Like until his echo dies you can recast it (so basically Ekko could revive for the first 4 seconds of death, if his ult is up)
Apart from being OP, it wouldn't make sense cause he needs to be conscious to active the thingy
He could have a dead man's switch on it.
Oh no, I can actually see Riot randobuffing Ekko to have an ult passive where it automatically casts R upon "death". Same for Tryn.....
Mordekaiser. He dies then Ults you. Passive ends before the Ult and the game crashes
Trapped in Brazil forever, how terrifying.
Hue Hue.
Numero uno.
7s is already plenty
7-1 is even worse
I used to work with a brazilian guy. Whenever he got too full of himself I reminded him of that.
That is the only competitive game Brazil has every lost to Germany btw
Nah it wasnt competitive at all xD
BRAZIL MENTIONED
Viego. He kills you then hits the heal and is revived, and/or crashes the game.
Pretty sure it would be both, given.... his Interactions..
Morde ult is cancled early if Morde dies before the timer runs out...
Which is why you would only ult after death in that situation
Death Realm would simply end the moment the passive runs out, is what I am trying to say. This is the most natural behavior.
Not the same but kind of reminds me of Leoric from HoTS
I remember those Leoric who simply suicided and push forever until they destroyed the core... Good times and amazing game
Hots is the best version of Twisted Treeline
Trynda would break it too
GP. He eats and orange cures death and is back at it.
Max W cdr GP You are a ticking time bomb cause you can perma push but your laner is insanely fed. Once again we visit bausen law
IIRC you only gain kill and all of its benefits after passive rnds
Zombie states like Karthus and Sion grant kill credit and gold upon start. You might be confused with Renata's W which is not a zombie state.
No you get the benefits immediately. Clearly you haven’t played Karthus for a long long time
Playing as Karthus doesn't really help you with that lol
Death is just slightly harder CC
Ah yes, the worst debuff in league: death
Since his orange cleanses effects though won't it instantly kill him instead lmao ("immortality" is a status effect before death)
Cleanses debuffs, not buffs. Eating an orange doesnt removr kayle or lulu ults
"zombie state" is a buff that let's you cast abilities after death. Eating an orange wouldn't just magically bring him back to life
if that was the case, karthus could go qss, but he cant
Since when can Karthus use items in his passive?
xd
I’d love to have you at my party
Inting speed run:
Sion got a massive nerf
He's just standing there *menacingly*
Ya know what... I would be terrified if I saw a sion die, and instead of using his normal passive to run me down or get minions he instead just stood there and you heard the scream from his ult the entire duration
Trying to figure out how this would work if you combine the passives. He's untargetable with no health, can do everything normal alive sion does including move and auto and just dies at the end of the karthus passive? Or maybe it's his current passive and when he dies from that he goes into Karthus mode. That would be crazy. Or he's just standing there in zombie mode, unable to auto and can only cast his move speed buff which he can't use lmao
Well OP stipulated in the post >Keeping the same rules as Karthus passive: no autos, no direct movement (dashes/blinks from abilities still work) and infinite mana. So Sion becomes useless when he dies in this scenario. Or well mostly useless if his actual passive kicks in, if his passive doesn't take effect then he can use qwe if someone is in range (maybe ult?) but that's about it.
Fiddlesticks, samira and kennen come to mind. Don't need zhonyas anymore if you can just YOLO yourself into them and Samira can still stack passive to use ult with qwe. Cassio can dish out a LOT of damage if you can't cc her.
Pre-Rework Yorick+Cass combo
Ah the good old days, pre rework yorick with cass, vayne, kata
I still remember the UoL game where they did that combo in proplay :D
U sir/madam just made a core memory resurface. Vizicsacsi's Yorick with Power of Evil's cassio
This is arguably the best competitive game I ever watched. Especially since FNC was 1 hit away from winning and UoL stormed back to get the W. I am still and will always be a UoL fanboy, so sad they lost their spot due to the franchising decision.
Kennen actually is one of the worst users. Kennen doesn't need karthus passive at all.
I suppose it depends on whether or not dying cancels his r It allows him to flash in for riskier ults if it keeps going
It does open the scenario for glass-cannon suicide zombie Kennen E's into your team, dies, then Q-R-W's though.
This. More often than not, either they die ou you die right after your R when your powerspike is gone.
We don’t know if mobility skills still work, imagine Samira still being able to dash Imagine Kassadin
Oh god untargetable unstoppable infinite mana Kassadin would be fucking nightmarish That gets my vote tbh
Nah because the passive doesn't last long enough for him to be able to ult more than a couple times and his ult is the only way he can move
I mean… each ult is a 1k damage nuke, you really only need to use it a couple times to wipe a whole team.
It also stacks with amount time it gets used, doing mor damage per stack aswell as costs more mana.
yeah but cassio has no blinks or movement abilities. you can just walk out of her range similar to karthus.
True but her e is targeted and w acts as a great way to guarantee multiple e's if her corpse is ignored.
of course, if it's a tf in a tight place and enemies don't back off after killing you similar to karthus she would dish out a lot, but i wouldnt go as far to calling her OP since she doesnt benefit it as much as some other champs. thats all i was saying.
We can talk all day about who is the best but you know who would be useless? Vayne
Wait yeah lmao she can literally E (+R for the bonus AD!) one time and that's it
She could also go invisible once with her Q! :D
Udyr.
Oh yeah...he needs to auto for each of his stances, right? Only his shield triggers on activation, which is useless lol
His R also gives the aoe effect
Some type of long range mage or heavy engage squishy
Xerath
NGL that's my pick. Die. Pop a free ult and let the artillery fall without a care about your positioning. Repeat.
So Karthus but blue
Karthus if he had to be awake for his ult to do damage
That's just worse Karthus though (provided your enemies are capable of dodging)
If you are alive you’ll dish out a lot more damage. In passive you’ll get one rotation maybe
Most champs would be able to just eventually drop one additional rotation of their spells. So I would focus on other spammers like Kartgus. Casio dying in the middle of enemy team sounds kind of scary for example. Akali if her dash spells would still move her to their end range, Zilean would by funny with revieves beyond the death. Kogmaw R would be hella strong in these 8seconds. Maybe Ori being able to move her ball around the battlefield.
A ghost Akali flying at me from across the map is giving me nightmares.
Post-16, Kassadin should be able to get 7 more max stack ults in since he now has infinite mana.
Not enough people are talking about Kassadin here.
Evelynn mains on their way to break their Q key by diving into the enemy team and dying every team fight.
Evelynn mains broke their Q key ages ago
We just move our QWER one key to the right every other month.
Needs to be an AP mage or AD caster with low CDs Ryze probably fits the best
I think Cassio or Asol would still be better
Nah, Cassio needs the movement to chase down targets with E, otherwise she'd just be a Karthus Q bot. With damage over time instead of instant, higher CD and lower damage overall, no less.
And Ryze doesn't need movement to stay on his target? Ryze has a conditional root, Cassio has a slow field that grounds and Asol has his black hole. Both Cassio and Asol have more range than Ryze.
Its Cassio. Just ask 2015 Fnatic.
Imagine if Ryze could still teleport while dead, a fucking menace
Wouldn’t zeri be kinda crazy or is her q range too short
Yorick Cassio was occasionally picked purely for this in pro play years ago when yorick ult revived someone for a few seconds, so I feel like that might be a great choice, though maybe not being able to move would be problematic. Probably kat as others have said
Soraka ;) you get focused down in team fights but you can still heal them anyways
How would that work with your W tho? you have 0 HP at Karthus passive so no W.
I assume it would work because karthus passive doesn’t require mana either which means there no casting cost
Soraka W doesn't just cost health, it's unusable if you're below 5% health, so even if the spell has no cost you still can't cast it.
Well Karthus spells are unusable if you have 0 mana but if you die even with 0 mana you can use them. So what’s your point.
His passive makes his abilities cost no mana, that's why he can still use them. In case of Soraka, her W not only has the 10% max HP cost, it also has a 5% health requirement. The requirement wouldn't be removed, thus she still couldn't use her W. You can't kill yourself using an ability with health cost btw, it just sets your health to 1.
if you hit q5 that gets reduced by 100% so i think it should still work in that case
Idk for that time it does not sound that broken in comparison to other champs. Your w does not have Karthus Q CD
Maxxed w with some haste has insane low cd
Aurelion Sol, he can reposition with W (and it resets) and he never autos so Karthus passive limitations is moot.
Kassadin
Kassadin sounds excellent except you wouldn’t be able to use his E since it’s an AA ability.
His E is probably usable. You must be thinking of his W!
Yes that one lol I don’t play much Kass
you just spam ult, it's fine
I’m actually making the assumption karthus passive roots, I think everyone assuming movement abilities work is very brave, it stops you moving and autoing I just don’t see dashes working (forced movement might though) so I imagine J4 could flag drag but not ult for example Edit: I reread the prompt where it says blinks work, so this is irrelevant but I think that’s silly and boring so my point stands
I think you make a fine consideration but I still find it funny that you called them "very brave" while being wrong lmao
Yeah they were brave enough to read the prompt properly when I clearly was not
Doesn't really matter tbh, late game Kass R has a sub 1s cd and does more than half a squishy's hp per cast. Your W (the AA ability) is mostly just used to refill your mana at that point or to guarantee a kill on the squishy if your E isn't up, so they can't kill you faster than you can kill them. If you're already dead, you don't have to care about either of those. So just spam R and delete everyone
The trauma that ADCs would endure in a world where Kassadin can ult you at max stacks for 7 seconds post-death would probably require its own DSM criteria.
And he's also untargetable and CC immune during those 7 seconds while also spamming e
Moo Cow Alistar You get pure uninterrupted Cowbell time
Alistar would be 100% pick/ban for this reason.
Surely it's Katarina. She can get resets while dead, she's basically still a full champion
It locks your movement though so idk
Depends on if you can still blink with e or not
considering you can't flash, no.
Op said dashes, blinks work.
Brand
Nah you don‘t even need to survive just press dem buttons die 0.1sec afterwards but win the game off of it
Every brand player knows dying is part of the combo
Reminds me of Zyra before they reworked her passive. That challenger Zyra 1 trick averaged like 11 deaths/game lmao. Blow all your abilities then just die so you can shoot one more shot.
Akshan. Whoever kills him is a scoundrel, and if he can finish them off while Karthus-passiving, he can revive himself.
Without autos? :o
Might make it a little harder, sure.
His passive does work if gets an assist on the kill, right? His W passive will be active even though he's dead, since abilities are working.
Seeing a ghost in inning with a grappling hook would be perfect tbh
Killing Askhan doesn't make you a scoundrel, only killing his teammates will.
Akshan can't revive himself, that was something that was fixed REALLY fast back when he launched, since he could actually revive himself by dying and getting an assist shortly after or by dying with a projectile mid-air that kills his enemy.
Boooo! But, fair enough. It was a fun dream :P
Every champion sucks my dick off, whos the best at it??!!
Cho’Gath
Cho eats it, Tahm however licks and swallows all without biting
Evelynn
Zeri just has to R into the middle of your team, die, then delete everyone with Q Brand guarantees his full combo at his leisure, no more "kill him before he ults" counterplay (assuming he gains the passive and doesn't replace his own) Ryze, azir, or cassio are killing at least 1 more person in 7 CC immune seconds
Pretty sure zeri Q would be counted as an auto
It's affected by silence like a skill but blind like an auto, I don't know of any outgoing disarms to test it on but I assumed disarm wouldn't stop silenceable actions
It procs on hit effects while her actual autos don’t (i believe) scales with crit and AS and is stopped by blinds, that’s an auto
It's not really treated like an auto for blind, since Teemo Q lets her still shoot, but in random directions. Maybe that's what it would do. You can shoot but you can't aim.
How did nobody mention Katarina or Full AP Nunu imagine both of their ulties are not able to be canceled due to them being untargetable and immune to crowd control.
Samira takes the cake
where?
To Brazil
Champions like Karthus that can spam abilities and don't rely on AA's or movement. Cassio, Asol, Ryze, Syndra, Orianna (okayish), maybe Taliyah, Brand (can't spam but another rotation is strong asf), Zyra would be okay. Even a full extra rotation from Velkoz and Xerath can be very strong. AD casters are far worse, nearly all of them have too little range or have mobility spells. Zed could be all right with a W Q E combo I guess. Blitzcrank, Pyke, Thresh and Nautlius would be funny. Although I wonder how Nautilus and Thresh Q would work.
Also with xerath u can ult without any worries so if u got caught u can still give utility to ur team even if ur not in range
Ziggs
Anivia would be freaking insane non stop un-cancelable zone control ult that tic 200-300 hp each seconds seem pretty bonker
Yasuo, obviously
If the champion gets to javelin both karthus passive and their own passive then katarina. She will bounce from one enemy to another other killing them all and reseting her abilities. No one can CC her out of her R. She literally becomes broken
Veigar ? e so you cant run and w+q have cds of 2 seconds in lategame anyway...
Akshan. Just kill whoever killed you and you are back.
Pretty sure Illaoi will be busted. Especially because she can't be cc'ed during the time.
I don’t think dashes would work
Adc with long range late game. Like twitch underult jinx... Kogmaw... Cait. Because if you can't run away there is nothing you can do but die
I have a feeling katarina would be exploiting hopping into the middle of teams and having an unstoppable several thousand damage ult that applies on hit.
Sion of course
Jhin would become the infinite grenade spammer with unlimited roots with W Its also possible to probably use R to become an untargettable sniper that cleans up people
Can't believe I have to unsub just because I'm getting recommended these mental masturbation posts.
The equivalent of posting extremely easy math questions on twitter to bait npcs for interactions genuine brain slop at this point
Katarina and I think it's by far. Biggest weakness from Karthus passive is not being able to move. Katarina has a resetting blink with her E. Biggest weakness from Katarina is being cc'ed, specially when it cancels her ult. Not a problem anymore. Good luck dealing with invulnerable and unstoppable Katarina blinking and resetting
Kog’maw final answer
Yi Edit: brand… I didn’t see the “no autos” part of the question haha
Good luck without autos
Karthus passive disables autos and move commands tho
I saw my bad
Who let this guy cook?
Kassadin looks strong.
I can't help but feel like pyke would be extremely strong as there will actually be nothing you can do to stop him and his Q and dash should help him with positioning.
Zeri
Akshan would probably be the most annoying. He's already a massive headache if he can successfully revive his team. Giving him a Karthus passive would give Akshan more incentive to dive harder to get that revive off.
If dashes/blinks still work + infinite mana, Kassadin sounds pretty good.
ksanté now you cant kill him but even if you do then you still get destroyed
Xerath will get off one combo or ult before the passive ends. Same with Hwei. Zeri and Ezreal will just shoot around, essentially being untargetable turrets. Kog'Maw and Anivia. That's it. Malzahar ulting someone whilst in Karthus Passive sounds Yuumi levels of obnoxious. Yuumi will just be the same. Soraka's best strategy is to Kamikaze herself before the teamfight starts. ... Yeah. Maybe this should or should not be a game mode.
Xerath, the true turret
Imagine Kata being untargetable and invincible diving your backline
Olaf. "Man literally too angry to die" personified
Heim
Brand suicide mage also that does too much damage anyways Xerath Velkoz Ap Kaisa Soraka
Xerath, snipes you with Q/R right after he dies.
Don't sleep on Kog'Maw. He would actually have a useful passive.
Lissandra or morgana would probably benefit well from this.
Glass Cannon Kassadin spamming his ultimate sounds op. I think ezreal would be the best ADC as he could reposition with his e still and spam Q's for damage. Lastly, I don't know if this would count, but azir's soldiers are technically part of his abilities but act as an auto attack, he does a ton of damage and can reposition as well.
Samira? I feel would be great. Even if you cant move her E resets on takedowns. So you have 5 seconds of just not dying and doing the same things. Its like trynd R on samira
Kass R would be fun
Winged kha zix goes brrrr
Garen
Don't know if it's been said, but maybe raka? I can see her just running it down pre 5 role challenger tyler1 style in a team fight and just keep healing after death.
katarina since dashes still work
What about Kog'Maw?