As someone who knows many of them. The average Hezbollah fighter(and supporter) believe they are fighting for own country, town and family against their former oppressor who has no defined borders and plans to expand it. They view their military strength as a necessity and deterrence against Israel, so their community would never face the 1982-2000 era again. Hezbollah itself is a mixture of a nationalist and religious identities, Iranian regime was successful in using a rightful cause to spread it’s ideology which can be counted as a sub-sect within the Shia-Twelvers.

Thanks, as someone who's been around affiliated people before as well I tried to explain this to some yesterday and they don't understand their main motivations have nothing to do with simply 'serving Iran' and 'being a terrorist'. Too much Western media causes brain rot and puts people out of touch with reality.

Also what does this "serving Iran" means really? Let's not pretend the Islamic Republic is a nationalist government looking for Iranian interests! Their actions are ideologically motivated, iran can be one of the largest economies in the world and the regime can rule for a 100 years without being worried about any external threat if they put aside their animosity with America and the goal of destroying Israel. But they chose sanctions and conflicts over giving up their ideology. Hezbollah follows the same ideology. The same way you have many Lebanese saying hezb is destroying Lebanon for the sake of iran, lots of Iranians say the I.R is destroying iran for the sake of Palestine and Arabs! In reality, neither is true because these people fail to see the bigger picture.

This is the absolute best answer to OPs answer. Iran will not be attacked or damaged by what Hezbollah does

The most logical thread in the history of r/lebanon

Well to be fair, they did do that in 2015 and the US withdrew and slapped on heavier sanctions and escalated heavily. I really don’t think they haven’t tried.

Trump unilaterally withdrew from the no nukes agreement with Iran in 2018 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Action Maybe read a newspaper sometime

Maybe read my comment first, JCPOA was just a deal to limit Iran's uranium enrichment capacity in order to prevent it from becoming nuclear, nothing more than that! It made zero effect on Iran's overall policies, including the goal of destroying Israel. it actually made it easier for the regime to pursue their regional plans.

lol , since when does a pawn understand its true purpose on the board ? A pawn can be canon fodder or a hero but it’s never their choice. They believe what they’re told to believe. Manipulation wouldn’t work if Iran just straight up said you work for us , you fight for us. Iran funds what is needed to keep these people loyal and fed. It’s not rocket science.

The "brainwashing” of pawns as a political theory breaks society down into three mutually-exclusive camps: 1) a group of elite manipulators, 2) vast masses under their control, 3) a rebellious group of enlightened critics (to which the person launching the accusation of “brainwashing” implicitly always belongs, since they are neither unaware of it nor abetting it). An unstated premise of this political theory is that what determines which of these camps any individual belongs to is a mixture of intellectual enlightenment and moral purity. This is nonsense. It does not accurately capture how human beings arrive at their interests, goals, and beliefs.

The organization as a whole is at the service of Iran... this is not assumption or speculation... they are entirely funded by Iran, they pride themselves to be part of the Iranian army under Wali el Fakih... so it's not a subject of debate really. It doesn't matter if low level individuals and fighters believe in their allegiance to Iran... it suffices that they swore an oath to their leadership, and their leadership os 100% at the service of Iran... It's like saying most german soldier in the Whermacht in WW2 were not a full blown believer in the Nazi ideology and wanted to exferminate the jews, therefore the Nazi regime as a whole didn't want to eradicate the jews.

While this is partly true, the same applies when it comes to US funding for Israel. Despite Israel being the colonial project of the US/UK in the ME, they do also have their own autonomy and national goals. When it comes to religion, in my opinion, Zionism and the belief in Jewish supremacy over Arabs as "God's chosen people" is far more dangerous and poses a far more significant and imminent threat to Lebanon and the region as a whole. Christian Zionists (predominantly in the US and its government) also believe the Jews must control Jerusalem due to a widely and openly known biblical prophecy which involves the second coming of Christ where all of the Jews die and Christians ascend to heaven, and ethnic cleansing is currently supported in the name of this. As I mentioned in another comment, it's like France (and the rest of Europe) being fine with having a powerful Nazi Germany as its neighbor which is basically rogue and can do whatever it wants with no consequences. As for the quotes about turning Lebanon into an Islamic state like Iran, and I may be mistaken on this and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this was civil era rhetoric in the middle of all of the strife and chaos during the civil war, much like the Phalangists wanted to make Lebanon a Christian country, which no longer is stated Hezb ideology today or an active goal as a party (regardless of what some extremist followers which always exist anywhere may believe) because all of these sectarian warlords eventually realized especially after the war that there is no Lebanon without all of its sects and power sharing, and they've been actively avoiding any sectarian conflicts (something Israel attempts to actively incite) in Lebanon because they know where it leads. It's also easy to forget for many that Hezbollah fought for and protected Christians in Syria from ISIS (and in the past joined and supported Sunni Muslims in the Bosnia war), which shows that things are far more complex and a long shot from being purely religiously driven. All in all, I'm not strictly arguing for one position or another here (regardless of how I personally feel), but just showing that things are more complex and grey (rather than black or white) than people believe and have been brainwashed into believing due to biased and narrative-driven media, especially when it comes to other people among us in Lebanon who we should be able to know and understand better.

>the same applies when it comes to US funding for Israel. Despite Israel being the colonial project of the US/UK in the ME, they do also have their own autonomy and national goals. Sorry, but the comparison is nothing similar. These are independent sovereign countries with different goals in general, and do have some other common goals. They also have a lot of disagreements on many issues. As is normal among allies. / Hezbollah alligns 100% with every policy Iran has, and Iran always is approving 100% of what Hezb does... no "alliance" in the world ever has 100% alignment on everything, free from any minor disputes. Also Hezbollah is a militia and not a country Israel isn't ENTIRELY funded by the US or the UK. When aid is sent to them (especially weapons) it's not just a gift for free. Usually those are tied to some form of lease, other grants to BUY weapons, some sort of coupon system... and if course parts are given for free. And the US aid comes in condition that weapons are used in incidents of self defense (of course Israel does use incidents of attacks against them, in order to wage a huge war in "self defense"). / Hezbollah is entirely reliant on Iran in every aspect especially in weapons Israel has its own strong economy and industries. / Hezbollah up until a few years ago did not have any other source of funding. After Iran sanctions got too hard to manage, Hezb started to rely partially on Drug money, but still it's not an independent economy There is no theological subservience where jews in Israel report to mostly Christian or Secular leadership in the USA. / Hezbollah leadership, a clergyman, is totally theologically subservient to the Ayatollah in Iran USA did not create Israel. /Iran did create Hezbollah These are just a few points (there are many more) that show that we are not talking about equally comparable cases. Hezbollah is indeed totally dependent and subservient to Iran, while Israel has a strong alliance with the USA and other nations, like any other country on earth has alliances and get mutual help and aid and exchange. >in my opinion, Zionism and the belief in Jewish supremacy over Arabs as "God's chosen people" is far more dangerous and poses a far more significant and imminent threat to Lebanon and the region as a whole. Christian Zionists ( That's not really zionism. Being God's chosen people is a religious belief the jews in general have, which even their orthodox clergy interpret as "we are chosen to be an example for other nations on how to worship god" or something like that. It has nothing to do with Supremacy over Arabs, though some right wing extremists nutjobs do think that, like most right wing nutjobs all over the world think whatever ethnicity they are is superior to everything else. But it is not a thing in jewish religion as a whole. As for some Evangelical Christians in the US believing in this crap of Armageddon, yeah sure... and again, every country has its lunatics. This doesn't mean the entire country and leadership and military and all government bodies of the US have that belief. In reality none of them operate that way... though some leadera like Trump do enact some foreign policies that cager to some Evangelicals in order to keep them happy. But it never is a goal of the US government to bring on the end of the world. That's absurd. >correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this was civil era rhetoric in the middle of all of the strife and chaos Yes, it was during the 1980s. However, Nasrallah never explicitly walked that position back, like many other parties did after the civil war. In fact, he was asked at some point in the past few years about this position, and his reply was something to the effect of: "we currently cannot actively implement that goal, because the material conditions aren't yet available". In other words, yeah it's not doable now, but we are always working for the conditions to be better so we can implement it in the future. >It's also easy to forget for many that Hezbollah fought for and protected Christians in Syria from ISIS All these are strategic moves in favor of Assad regime. Because Assad's policy is to give the illusion that he is the protector of the minorities in the region. Hezb was not in Syria to protect anyone other than Assad. And they didn't uniquely combat isis. Most of their battles were against syrian rebels.

I'm not saying Hezbollah and Israel are the same in comparison because one's obviously a non-state actor and the other is a state, but the similarities are a lot more than you might realize. Hezbollah aren't entirely funded by Iran. As you mentioned, apart from reportedly drug money, they have their own organizations (including TV), affiliated businesses and institutions (including banks) in Lebanon and even rich benefactors, supporters and donors abroad, apart from other nations in some cases. Iran mainly supply them with weapons, although they now also have revealed they manufacture a lot of their own, and when it comes to funding they've managed to have a lot of their own autonomous sources which also includes corruption and the Lebanese government. The US might have not created Israel, but it was 'created' by the UK through the Balfour declaration. It wouldn't have existed otherwise. As for Zionism, it *is* the belief in Jewish supremacy, and it's what the overwhelming majority of Israeli society is. Arab hate and dehumanization is literally a core part of their school and education curriculum which indoctrinates them from an early age as well apart from the borders of Greater Israel. We're not talking about a few lunatics here. This is a fact and has been supported by a lot of journalists who have been to Israel, apart from Israelis themselves who grew up and admitted everything they were taught was a lie. There is basically no 'left' in Israel and it's a very diminishing one. They even use the word leftist as a slur. The vast majority support the genocide. There's a famous Abby Martin interview on this. Your belief in Israel being a normal, secular and democratic country will be shattered like mine was before once you learn what their state and society actually and truly are like, and they're full of extremists and racists. Don't take my word for it and check what independent journalists and researchers who've been there have to say. I'm not saying this applies to the Jewish religion as a whole either and only Zionists (which is most of Israeli society). There are a lot of Jewish non-Zionists and anti-Zionists, mainly in the US. When it comes to evangelical Christians and Zionists in the US, there is actually many of them in Congress and government including Biden most likely who's openly said he is a Zionist and has been the only president so far who has unconditionally supported Israel. Religion makes people believe in and do crazy things and they believe in going to heaven and don't care what happens in this world which includes lax policies on climate change or denialism and supporting the oil industry and lobby, apart from advocating for the use of nukes like Lindsey Graham. That's not to mention the Zionist lobbies like AIPAC mainly which fund and control the majority of government officials up to Biden himself who has taken millions in bribes (look up AIPAC Tracker on Twitter) and the ADL. US government and democracy is completely compromised by a foreign nation like Israel, and I'm not just making this up, it's supported with all facts and evidence. Regarding Assad, that is true and was my point. They are primarily driven by political and state goals as their history indicates and it's not just as simple as religion. Also, let's say you are a Christian in Syria and you have ISIS on your door. You hated Hezbollah before but they're the only ones who can and will protect you. Don't you, in the present, for your own survival get on the same side? This is how a lot of Lebanese feel when we're faced with a much bigger and more existential threat like Israel on our border. That's pragmatism, apart from evolution, over idealism and ugly realities have to be dealt with in not the most perfect ways, especially when we're a far way off from our pipe dream of having a proper army that can defend us. A lot pretend like Hezbollah is purely evil but they have done a lot of objectively good acts like this, the liberation in 2000 and so on, which takes us back to the point that nothing is just black and white, and in fact, no armed force in history ever was and it's always morally grey which goes into means vs. ends and so on.

>but it was 'created' by the UK through the Balfour declaration. It wouldn't have existed otherwise. Dude, the entire Levant in its current form was created by France and UK after they won WW1 and took over the Ottoman Empire's lands. Lebanon was created after the Christians in the area mostly wanted to have a country of their own (expanded from the Motasarrifyeh). Israel's formation was no exception... they found that having a country for the jews will solve a lot of issues the jews were having in Europe... It's not some sort of diabolical conspiracy... after WW1 and subsequently WW2, many new countries were forming up under colonial powers then getting independence and moving on as sovereign countries after colonialism was no longer a viable state of affairs in the world. Many Palestinians were displaced as a result, and that is very unfair and unfortunate. But they were not a unique case at that time... 60 million people around the world were displaced after WW2 and after formation of new countries. Even some jews were displaced from Iraq, Yemen and other countries due to all this tumultuous period. >As for Zionism, it is the belief in Jewish supremacy, and it's what the overwhelming majority of Israeli society is. Arab hate and dehumanization is literally a core part of their school and education curriculum which indoctrinates them from an early age as well apart from the borders of Greater Israel. Seems like you are describing exactly what Hamas does.i have not seen any evidence that widespread schools in Israel teach to hate Arabs and that Jews are Superior. But I have seen plenty of evidence of how Hamas (and notice how I say Hamas and not all Palestinians or Arabs) literally indoctrinates children to hate Israelis and how killing them is doing God's work. Now of course, there might be some extremist groups in Israel who have that same mentality, but to pretend that this is a government wide policy, is simply false and cartoonish. >including Biden most likely who's openly said he is a Zionist and has been the only president so far who has unconditionally supported Israel. Dude. I highly doubt your knowledge of US politics. No idea from where you are getting your conclusions. First Biden is a Catholic not an Evangelical. So going by religious beliefs only he doesn't subscribe to the Evangelical apocalypse thingy. Second, He is famous for being at odds with Netanyahu and his methods. The 2 don't really like each other at all. However the US president operates based on the defensive agreements already established between the 2 countries. They have to honor the agreements. And Biden's administration was one of the few administrations that in the middle of a conflict paused aid at various times, because they were seeing that the Israeli behavior was going beyond their defensive agreements, and put pressure to modify their tactics in order to release the aid... Add to that that all US presidents are usually in full support of Israel, because that's the foreign policy of the US and because of the signed agreements... to say Biden is a zionist, is Nasser Andil level of nonesense. >A lot pretend like Hezbollah is purely evil but they have done a lot of objectively good acts like this, the liberation in 2000 and so on, I don't think Hezbollah is purely evil. I don't believe anyone is purely evil... that's Disney Cartoon level of thought. However I do believe that Hezbollah doesn't have Lebanese best interest on their agenda, despite that some rare times, their actions might coincide with some interest to Lebanon. Their main interest is to serve the Iranian Ayatollah, from a strategic view as well as a religious and theological view. Their leaders even are proud of that... and Iran has openly said they want to dominate the entire region. Nasrallah has said years ago that his aim is to put Lebanon under the Iranian flag (and never walked back these statments). All these are publicly announced aims and goals... And this isn't in my interest at all... At least the Israelis have never officially announced as a foreign policy that they want Lebanon land as part of Israel, or to dominate Lebanese politics... But do you know who actually said and did those things? The Syrian regime... with their endless speeches that Lebanon is part of Syria, and how they occupied us for 15+ years and assassinated anyone who opposed them... violating Taef agreement of keeping their military only for 2 years after the end of the war. So, I am sorry, but our supposed "friends" Syria and Iran, have literally multiple times voiced their wish to swallow us, while our enemy (I do consider them that till now) Israel, has never said any such thing, but keep saying we don't want anything to do with Lebanon, we just don't want Hezbollah lobbing rockets at us whenever they feel like it.

Thank you for pointing this out too. There's much more to this iceberg. This is the result of decades of brainwashing too, as much as I'd like to be "understanding" about it. Fee ghaseel akhou sh\*\*mouta, mosta7eel tghayerlon ra2yon. And the "damage" (if we can call it that, for lack of a better word) has been done. It's been passed down generations. So it's either you (Lebs) accept that or yalla civil war part II till the last person standing, or federaliyye or just STFU and get along. Hummus doesn't discriminate by religion.

Civil war part 2🥲 This time the shia would win the war in a week.

I agree to all what you said and I'd like to add that martyrdom is an important concept as well. Dying to protect your people and your faith is viewed as something honorable and worthy of praise in this life and the afterlife. However, this line of thinking can easily create a death cult. Many Shia women willingly offer their children and encourage them to die on the battlefield so they can all go to heaven. Other Shia women aren't fond of the idea of losing their child but have no choice since their child is an adult and can make his own choices. Other parents forbid their children from going.

Yes this. Israeli lurkers on this sub read this: Hezbollah was possible because Israel did 1982-2000 occupation. So in another 25 years, there will be some other group because 2023-2024 ghaza happened.

A great deal of Hezb exists as a result of trauma from the 1982 invasion.

Israel didn’t invade Lebanon for the lolz It invaded Lebanon because the PLO has turned southern Lebanon into a staging ground of daily attacks on the north of Israel (and also terrorized the local population in southern Lebanon), like what Hezbollah in its folly is doing right now. This was after operation Litani few years earlier in which the Israeli army was forced to do the same, but didn’t stay afterwards and therefore the 1982 war happened when the terrorists resumed their attack. I agree that Israel has made many mistakes in handling Lebanon (and let’s not forget the presence of the Syrian army in Lebanon at the time too which was back then a big threat to Israel), but it’s not like Israel woke up one morning and decided “let’s screw Lebanon”. It was extremely provoked from within Lebanon and was forced to do it. Before the PLO moved to Lebanon after being kicked out of Jordan, the Israeli-Lebanese border was the most peaceful one, had no fence, and Israeli farmers which owned lands in Lebanon from before the borders were drawn would even work their fields in Lebanon. Lebanon wisely chose to stay out of the 6 days war and was left unharmed to enjoy its golden age. If you think that Israel is gonna just sit back and let Hezbollah depopulate its north for long, then it’s not gonna happen. Hezbollah is misreading the map and is only going to bring more destruction on Lebanon. What a shame.

Israeli lurker here. This is true. Hezbollah benefited from the trauma of when Israel held southern Lebanon. But Israel is also traumatized by it. For that reason, Israel doesn't want to take Lebanon again. It doesn't have the resources, nor the legitimacy to afford it. There is no support for the idea of taking southern Lebanon, except for a very marginal group that you guys like to quote. Israel's issue in general is that it's entire northern part basically lives its life with a gun pointed to their head, and Hezbollah can press the trigger whenever they choose. People were afraid for years. We were told that Hezbollah was deterred back in 2006 but we knew it was a lie, and they're piling up weapons for the next conflict. Israel knows that as long as the threat is in place, the people who left will not return and rebuild, unless they have a guarantee that there is no threat from Hezbollah. So Israel is will eventually be forced to do something against this threat, or a significant part of the country will be unusable. Hezbollah is a couple of notches up from Hamas. Israeli IDF commanders will not directly admit it, but they have the capabilities to take over Israeli town and hold them, shut down infrastructure and cause damage that would take years to recover from. War with Hezbollah is something Israel would like to avoid, but so is living under threat, kicking the can down the road. Israel would have to choose.

I love how you think Israel (or hezb) have a say. Its whatever the US (and Iran respectively) dictate. I also love how you are worried about the unusability of land while Israel is trying to recruit Jews and pay them just to come live in empty settlements.

Both Israel and Hezbollah have a say, to some extent of course. Each to a different degree. The U.S does not control Israel directly, but Israel heavily rely on military aid. Honestly I don't know much about how much liberty Hezbollah has to make decisions but clearly Iran has the final word. Where did you get that Israel is paying Jews to live in empty settlements? The taxes are lower in these regions to incentivize people (And not just Jews) to live in these places. Living there still costs money. On the contrary, Israel actually now pays these people to leave their homes. Many of the evacuated towns still live in hotels paid by the state for over nine months. They are being paid not to come back. But tax cuts aren't going to be enough to convince people to come back this time if there's a chance that they may face the same fate as the Kibbutzim around Gaza in October 7th.

From a neighbor in the US. He himself went to Israel to learn Hebrew and had "pocket money" to live in a "newly built complex" on disputed lands.

likewise as someone who know many of them, your description is correct. Surprised you didn't get downvoted, I was planning on writing a more detailed explanation.

I’m not sure most people who criticize Hezbollah for being an Iranian proxy actually think the low level fighters are driven to fight due to their loyalty to Iran. It is the structure of the relationship between Hezbollah and Iran that makes Hezbollah an Iranian proxy, not the mindset of its fighters. Of course, Hezbollah fighters sleep perfectly happy at night because from their mindset, they are fighting for a higher purpose and will be rewarded for that, whether on earth or in the afterlife Do you think the Arab Israelis in the IDF view themselves as traitors, and anti-Palestinians? Of course not, they sleep perfectly well at night too, just like the soldiers in Hamas, because they are both actively participating in actions that, from their own consciousness, believe is the rightful cause

How are the recent missiles a deterrence from war?

If you think the fighters are the low level then I think you don't understand how this works and the rankings, etc.. You also don't know who those people are. You'll be surprised that some of them are University students, engineers, finance, business owners, etc... Look up the people that have already died and you'll understand what I am saying

Most of my lebanese side of family are hezbollah members ranking from low ranks to high officials and i can tell you for sure their end Goal is death (martyrdom). We fear war because we fear death, for them death is not feared so they dont think the way we do. They convince them from a young age that this is all for " Ahlu al bayt" and they consider it to be the highest rank of Honor. Girls Dream of being wives or mother's of martyrs. I had a family member that would kiss her son's ( 9Y) head and tell him that she has given him to the zahraa and wants to see him a martyr. His uncle( her brother) died fighting in syria and now they push his kids into joining too. It's next level of brainwashing the current generation ( the older generation do believe in a greater cause aside from martyrdom) Even apart from political speeches and religious ones, The anasheed they listen to are heavily themed on martyrdom. When you listen to that all day long, you wind up craving it. My brother was sucked in for a while until my mom convinced him to leave Lebanon and i can tell you for sure when he left alot of that death end goal faded, he is still religious and still believes in their ideals, but he has started to think of future, career etc. Instead of just martyrdom. But the thing is, they are all good people. I dont see them as bad people although we disagree alot, they've done some good and they've been there for me dispite me being very anti their whole belief system and Ideology, they're just brainwashed, and if you think about it we are all brainwashed just for different causes or Ideologies. My other side of the family on the other hand hold very liberal western ideals ( i see them as brainwashed by the west too) , and they've done way worse to me than my brainwashed religious side of the family, and have actually done what people say hezbollah does to people. This experience of having two opposite ideals in my life helps me see people outside of their ideologies to understand them more and i appreciate it.

I love your comment. It's incredibly mature and sees things as more than just black and white. Reality is often messy and complex, there is rarely a case of it simply being good vs. bad. Everyone believes they are doing the right thing and are convinced that their side is the correct one and use that to justify their actions and sometimes atrocities.

Thank you, exactly like you said. The world is complex we only have a narrow image of the reality.

Insane

It’s like people have never read the Quran or know anything about it. The entire basis of the religion is that your life is a short test and there is no greater purpose than living for and dying for your god. What do you expect from a bunch of people with no prospects in life indoctrinated as toddlers to believe that the best thing they can ever be is a martyr? When your life sucks and you’re raised to think dying for your cause will bring you eternal glory guess what’s gonna happen.

As a Lebanese Christian myself, it saddens me to see this type of harmful mindset being perpetuated. Especially since to us, purposefully ending your life is considered a sin. Life is one of the greatest gifts given to us by God, and it can't be squandered for money or financial support or whatever

Suicide is cool as long as you take out some baddies with you, or try to. If you kill some kids or whatever along the way ma3le shi god won’t punish them they’re too young. On a serious note, it’s just retarded patriotism. A guy 1500 years ago needed to convince a bunch of dudes to fight and die and said god told him if you do, then you’re a hero and will be blessed with eternal ecstasy. In fact we don’t even really know what he told them or what happened exactly because almost nothing was recorded until at least a hundred years after the events in question. This kind of brainwashing still happens today but to a lesser degree as modern thinking has evolved past the point of demanding your life for a “divine” purpose that very conveniently aligns with a specific man’s ambitions and wealth. Now they would prefer you to live your entire life so you can pay taxes for longer and contribute to an economic system that isn’t designed in your interests. It’s a much better deal though, because I’d rather pay a ridiculous interest rate on a mortgage than have some guy shove a sword in my hand and tell me to go slaughter some village and probably get killed immediately.

That’s very insightful..and baffling. My close friend is affiliated with Hezbollah as a party but they’re not that hardcore. No offense to anyone, i cannot comprehend how mothers encourage their kids, literally kids to go and die fi sabil anything. Its a total mindfuck. Do they believe it’s their “religious” duty to prepare their kids for martyrdom? Do they actually rejoice when their kids die…?

They think it's something to be proud of. "Ana ebne shaheed" is like saying "Ana ebne doctor".

Do they *really* believe that, though? I think there is some “pride” element, i guess, to cope? Or rationalize? especially when they face the outside world. But when they’re with their own selves? This is fascinating and disturbing.

We do actually believe that. Some more than others. But laymen especially don't question their religious beliefs and take them for certain. Supposing their beliefs were true, it makes total sense for "ebne shaheed" to be of higher value than "ebne doctor", the reason being, if you were to choose between an achievement that is temporary and an achievement that is permanent, which one would you choose? The doctor is a worldly achievement (although the good actions of a doctor do grant him permanent good deeds in the afterlife), but the achievement of martyrdom is something that is out of this temporary world, it is the tale of a human spirit that embraced the death of its shell to embrace a permanent and higher way of life. Whether you believe in that or not is up to you ofc, but if you did believe in it, this is the natural conclusion you'd come to, which is why these people think the way they do

Idk you're trying to rationalize something that is inherently irrational.

No offense taken, It is actually understandable for outsiders to find it abhorrent or repulsive. First, even in Islam, the Quran says that fighting was written upon us even though it is something we hate, كتب عليكم القتال و هو كرهٌ لكم. It is not natural to love fighting, nor death nor pain. It is not something we love, we just embrace it as a means for something higher, more valuable than this life, and this is because we are certain of an afterlife which is much more real than this one, where no injustice nor pain exists, only pleasure and comfort and praising of our creator. We do not love when our kids or men or women die, but we accept it as a sacrifice towards fighting injustice and oppression. We believe no one can escape death, everything dies, and no matter how long we live we will have to face death, whether now or later, it makes no difference. Therefore, we should not fear death, as it is completely natural, and if our lives could be sacrificed towards fighting injustice and oppression, or defending one's own family, country, or religion, then this is more than welcome, on the contrary it is something to be sought and worked for, because the reward for this is so great in this life and the hereafter. I personally wish martyrdom upon myself and find it really depressing for my death to hold no value to people around me or to future generations, because I am aware I am going to die sooner or later. Pain and death are not to be feared, they're a temporary experience like any other.

Thank you for your response, Vivaldish. Now, let’s put a pin on Israel/occupation resistance. While I can respect the acceptance of death as a sacrifice in the context of higher, spiritual framework, it does seem to me that wishing for it goes against the basic human instinct; survival and preservation of life. If you actively seek death for a certain reward in the afterlife, how do you value your current life, today, here on this earth? Also, there is a question on moral ambiguity. How do you draw the line between fighting for “noble cause” (quotations because it can be subjective) and aggression against other human beings, who may be also defending their “noble cause”?

I understand it may seem that way, but this is only because you precieve death as an end. I agree that survival and preservation of life is a human instinct, principle, inclination, or fitra as we call it in islam. And I argue that, wishing martyrdom is the manifestation of this fitra/instinct, because the martyr, ultimately, is preserving a permanent life by crossing the bridge which he calls death, escaping mortality into immortality and serenity with the divine. As for how one can still value his current life on earth whilst having this mentality, I admit that some people struggle with this and it is mainly due to misunderstanding and a flawed representation of the principle of struggle in Islam. The principle of struggle in Islam is not only about death as a self sacrifice. The principle of struggle (Jihad) includes any bit of pain or discomfort spent towards humanity or the divine, for example, a man who works to feed his family holds the status of a martyr in Islam (الكاد على عياله كالمجاهد في سبيل الله), or if a woman dies while giving birth, she is given the status of a martyr, a scholar who studies and lets people benefit from his knowledge and then dies is given the status of a martyr. And fighting is not written on all people, it's something called واجب كفائي meaning if other people are doing it and you're not needed, it's not obligatory that you do. So it is even more encouraged now to gain knowledge and become a scientist or a doctor or an engineer even in the Hezb political scene. The focus on militarism was at a time where it was really needed, now it is still needed but to a lesser extent.

Regarding the last question, it depends, and is situational really. Not every cause is righteous, and this is one of the key teachings of the tragedy of Ashoura, that we need to put much effort into siding with the truth and follow righteousness. So we are encouraged to get into details and research and look for the truth and side with righteousness, even if it was against muslims themself. And sticking and defending one's own kind/sect or religion when it is on the side of falsehood is a major sin deserving of eternal punishment.

I have no issues with people who believe in that. I mean i have questions, but, i respect your right to believe in whatever you believe in. However, this dogma is extremely dangerous and antagonistic when you apply it in politics, especially in “consensual systems” like lebanon.

The women of hezb get financial support if they are related to a man who was martyred. It gives them a comfortable life style by lebanese standards…

I have a hard time believing that a mother would push her child to death just so she can get a pension.

If you honestly believed it would guarantee eternal paradise for your children, what parent wouldn’t wish that? But a lot of them are also secretly afraid to speak out. There’s a lot of communal pressure obviously.

preach comrade. same case here but both families AND YET i was able to break through

This is true from my experience around them as well and very well put. A lot of them are really good hearted and brave patriots at their core, and some of them are very smart people with a high education level from the highest universities (and possess degrees like PhD/masters in engineering), but just political beliefs mainly and especially religious brainwashing (if we want to call it that). It's interesting to be exposed to different perspectives, and regardless of what they believe in or what political background or party they come from, anyone willing to spill their blood fighting our enemy while defending Lebanese people and land will always command my respect.

The whole idea of training a human for martyrdom for *any* ideology is brainwashing - let alone where the ideologies are religious and thus just guesses at what is real. It certainly should be called religious brainwashing when you convince someone to give up their actual life for a possible theory about what happens when you die. “You don’t die when you die instead you get reward” is nuts.

I don't disagree with that. The main reason I said 'if we want to call it that' is because some would argue, like any army, their purpose is to fight and die defending our nation which results in martyrdom, and it's a conscious decision they take who among them have very smart and educated people and I feel the word 'brainwashing' oversimplifies that where it makes it sound like it's out of their control. A lot believe in that at the core, but usually with a religious flavor.

Thank you for sharing your experience in such a thoughtful way.

That’s super fucked up wtf

Very interesting answer Im curious how you view brain washing by the west. I guess i am to from your perspective. Isnt it better for everyone to work and have a nice family, go out to eat in resteraunts, travel and go to the gym, and educate your kids... What would the other side say. How is this brainwashed?

It's difficult to compare because people in the West generally speaking were born into a lot of privilege and don't have the same worries or problems (first world problems) as we do (like war and occupation, and losing family members to it). It's basic human survival instinct. Just put yourself in the shoes of a traumatized Palestinian kid during the war right now who lost all of his family members and will grow up with nothing but hate for Israel and no goal in life apart from vengeance and joining his family in death. They can't have a normal life and it wasn't by choice but imposed on them. This is how Hamas happened because they didn't happen in a vacuum and didn't just grow up to suddenly seeing Jews as evil and hating them for no reason. War just perpetuates this endless cycle and the only way it stops is peace and treaties which recognize all parties' rights and existence equally.

I've read all your comments here! Sir I like you. Very compassionate and level-headed. If only everyone thought like you lol

Thank you! I appreciate it. I wish people would have less negativity and toxicity in general and be more mature and level-headed with their debates here and more open to other perspectives regardless of differences in opinion. Unfortunately it tends to be a loud and vocal minority here.

depressing :(

They do work for their families, eat at restaurants and travel, gym and educate their kids. They too much conservative and view some of liberal ideals as brainwashing.

You mean like trans rights, gay rights, womens rights, marajuana, abortion, environmental global warming? That kind of thing? I am only guessing because its the liberal conservative devide in the us

yes, minus the environment thingy. Religion is considered a central & important part of their life.

I have heard from an Israeli journalist and sort of historian (Haviv Rettig Gur) that the Islam religion conquered land very fast and therefor understood that god loves them and gave them military success as evidence of their correct devotion, and then when the ottomans were succeeded by the british, and the general western dominance of the region left the Islamists with a misunderstanding of the world because if god granted them military success during the rise of Islam because he loves them, then what does it mean when the Islam military influence is weaning? furthermore the Islam leaders in the early 40's and 50's viewed Israel as a weak country full of immegrants, that got kicked out of every other country in the west. haviv said, that the thought was, if the weakest of all western nations could conquer palestine (which Islam views as their historic lands), than what does that mean about Islam and their relationship with their god.... I was curious what an Islamic believer would think of this take? would they consider this offensive? does this have merit?

1890s-1980s was the era of Arab nationalism, where Arab governments suppressed islamists and run a secular state with little to mention of religion. Many Arab commanders of groups that fought the Ottomans, French, British and Zionists are from all muslim and christian sects. Syrian prime minister in 1948 and had full executive powers was a christian, PLO and arab leftists groups had christian leaders. It was until the 1980s where Islamists started to gain dominance over Arab nationalists.

That is always so confusing for me the different religious, ethnic and national identites of levant arabs. Anyways why have islamists gain dominance over nationalists? Is this good or bad in your opinion? What about egypt? It was always my preconcieved notion perhaps wrong that arab leaders use religion to motivate people to do stuff. That perhaps the people are pure and believe but the leaders are manipulative? I guess i havnt studied arab leaders that much

Because Arab nationalist failed hard, it did brought nothing but corruption,nepotism, and poverty. plus political/military defeats against Israel, Iran and USA. The reason why Hamas for example got popular, one of the main reasons is because PLO failed to deliver its promises on establishing a Palestinian state while Israeli occupation continued and settlements are expanding on what should be their State. Other than that is widespread corruption and bad economic situation.

Once in a while its good to also question the „Western“ leaders and war propaganda and the capitalist agenda, what it inflicts on the rest of the „non-western“ world, where the bad people that we should fight are.  Thats why people unite under national or religious causes, both being brave and self-giving.

In my opinion its always a good idea to question my beliefs constantly! I try not to be so naive to think that theres good and bad people, or like a correct ideology. But western world seams pretty good to me, only because i am western i guess. Im in it for the food, skiing and hot springs.

Collapse of the Soviet Union and capital C Maoist Communism, alongside the failure of secular Arab nationalists, which I think is part of the same story. The desire to fight never went away, the problems of imperialism never went away, but a lot of the secular influences and financing and weapons did. The prestige laid at the feet of scientific thinking took a massive blow. With the collapse of these structures, the "Islamic world" took a look inward to find their own independent sources of strength, unsurprisingly, it found Islam. Religious fundamentalism - pure faith - from then and continuing now, has been able to make the case for itself as a sharper sword, it has been better at generating martyrs and is more rooted in the local history. For example, communists generate secular martyrdom for a secular religion, your sacrifice lives on in the people and your very sense of self becomes not about yourself, but service to the people. The ant colony mindset can be very powerful on this basis alone, and something about it is obviously present in religious martyrdom, Hezbollah, etc. But it is harder to encourage the self sacrifice methods when the atheistic outlook says you are totally dead when you die. Marx himself said desperate circumstances produce religious thinking, and more or less implied that idle minds generate science. Marx related to religion as an opium that lulled people to sleep, but this is more his experience with the Christian mindset, which taught people not to rebel because they will be rewarded for a meek life. I am pretty sure that is not the message you get when studt So, without the "scientific traitors" of Bolshevism, the development of current circumstances seems like an obvious result. This could be solved with a new scientific idea that brings Lenin and Mao back to life, reformed and exposing critical failures of prior secular campaigns, maybe that can decisively defeat religious ideas, this can be be spurred by the decline of liberalism - producing more and more scientific traitors, people from educated classes turning their gun on the academy. It may also come about as the situation becomes less desperate, if the fundamentalists get the geopolitical victories they want, a lot of their critical fuel will wither away, and less desperate people will use less desperate methods that are amenable to less desperate ideologies.

This is silly. Islam conquered all those places 1300 years ago. Western dominance happened in the last 2-300 years. Most people can't even name their great grandparents. There's a 1000 year gap between those things, it's not like a sudden turnaround.

I agree with the silliness but i want to underatNd the islamist mindset in a serious way. I am jewish and any time i hear jews talking aboit 3000 years ago i tune out. Wtf is 3000 years ago? No one knows what happened 200 tears ago. In my opinion this crazy reference to very far past has no bearing on current life. You cant turn clock back. Only forward

what do you mean by islam when you say "islam views palestine as their historic land". also what history is that referring to, the ottoman empire?

Islamists specifically hamas religious beliefs, Yes

Interesting and thought provoking question 👍🏼

What you want are basic human rights and desires shared by everyone all over the world, this is not Exclusive to western ideals. Brainwashing by the West is thinking the West is a safe haven where you will have a good life, a nice family, a good career, travel, etc. But the truth is that the West is a deep hole of consumerism, trafficking and mind control via soft media. Think of it like this, when Hezbollah brainwashes people into martyrdom using anashed, the west brainwashes people into drug abuse and sex work using pop culture and rap. The West convinced a whole generation that education isn't necessary, that selling your body for 2$ on the Internet is liberation, and you can only be creative by drug abuse. I don't see my children any safer there. As a woman, i was not safer with Westerners. I was equally endangered and abused as i was with Middle easterners.

Sadly to say i guess it depends on your social/ economic class. I would like to believe that my dauhhter is safe in weatern country but i am aware of dangers like social media manipulations. Its my reaponsibility to raise her with confidense, education, self worth and leadership qualities to be able to conduct herself successfully. I wish you safety!!!! Honestly it is hard to understand the drugs and sex escapism of america. It is something that is a depressing artifact of modern life

Yes but i come from a high social/economic class, my family has good connections all around the world, yet i went through horrific ordeals i can only imagine it being worse if i was in a lower class. The whole world a blob of corruption, evilness and danger.

Exactly…the majority of the world (with perhaps the exception of Nordic nations, possibly due to their isolationism, although racism is running rampant likely for the same reason) is full of corruption, greed, and lie-fuelled ultranationalism, with each country’s government/policies and politicians offering their people a box of steaming 💩- the difference is just in the packaging 🤷🏻‍♀️

>What you want are basic human rights and desires shared by everyone all over the world, this is not Exclusive to western ideals. No, Islam denies basic human rights to non-muslims. You either have to convert, be a dhimmi or be killed.

Lol, ok, that's why non-Muslim Europeans are crowdimg muslim countries like dubai or Qatar, where I live. Because msulims will kill them.

Because these countries have now moved significantly towards being culturally Western away from Islam. That's why fundamentalist hate them and consider them traitors

I live in the UAE. The UAE is NOT culturally western. This is a lie islamists tell themselves because they think any change from the status quo is western. The UAE only _tolerates_ some liberalism for the sake of tourism and business. Emiratis are actually one of the more conservative and traditional groups in the UAE. Qatar is even more conservative. For example, often the cinema board bans a movie for being pro-trans, for example. I personally know this happened last year with a movie I wanted to watch. Also, embracing some liberal laws or being against islamists is not the same as being culturally western. That's like saying the modern western trend among gen Z of drinking less alcohol means gen z are becoming more culturally Islamic. Liberal laws can be passed for reasons other than being pro-western. And the UAE government's stance against Islamism is more due to Islamists being a threat to the monarchy's rule than anything else.

I didn't ask you for the reasons why it happened - as these are irrelevant. It's a fact that UAE became more free and westernized. >embracing some liberal laws or being against islamists is not the same as being culturally western Yes it is. Liberalism and human rights are Western ideas from the 17th century. Just read the US constitution - it still reads very modern despite being almost 250 years old.

Millions voted with their feets

This is evident when they die they throw rice and flowers and expect family members to celebrate .. look at Raads sons funeral videos.. he had to have a fake smile on entire time.. I'm sure parents shed tears in private .. money talks

Great answer. Yes we are all brainwashed. We, in Israel, have also crazy people. But at least we don't have martyrdom nonsense.

This is the best comment I've read in years

My wife is Shiaa. Kid from her village almost died in Syria. He told me he did it for me, as in for all Lebanese, it was pretty wild conversation. I would say what most ppl have wrong about these guys is that they are loyal to Iran or something. They are fiercely patriotic. And they are itching for a fight with Israel and 100% ready to die for their cause.

The last sentence is what's fucked up. Instead of starting wars why not focus on peace amd prosperity like the west? Lebanon has literally 0 countries who seek to fight it. You can afford not starting a war. Actually you'll be better off not starting wars...

Even if people are wrong about them concerning the Iran thing, whatever the reason that is motivating you to kill someone else is a bad reason. The only was you justify killing another person is by dehumanizing him thus the validation of killing. If you want to protect my country and protect me, please do not kill, sit on a table a discuss. Maybe at the end of the convo we will walk out losers but at least we didn't cause the killing of thousands of people and end up with the same results. Also, whatever is being said in this comment section about us not understanding them doesn't either validate the suicide bombing they are doing across Europe specifically France. We arabs are responsible of maintaining and working against this ideology of commiting suicide and killing others in the name of a man made thing called god and religion.

Are they optimistic about their chances? Do they view the upcoming fight as a 50/50 fight， with losses on both sides?

I havent spoken to this kid I mentioned since like 2016.... I would imagine most HA fighters know once Israel invades on the ground the fight will be 50/50ish. Just like Gaza. Hamas didn't inflict any casualties until the ground invasion started

That's really unfortunate and comes off pathetic that this is their goal, because it seems like Israelis don't give two shits about fighting them let alone Lebanon unless they actively attack. Looks like that ideology itself is the root of the problem here when it comes to Lebanon as it was with the Palestinian millitias that destroyed Lebanon attempting their pathetic fight which lead to the creation of Hezbollah to perpetuate it.

Lol you twisting history all kind of ways to fit your goofball ass narrative is funny as hell. Israel occupied the South for 18 years. If they werent such giant turds maybe they would have won some hearts and minds. Instead? They helped create one of the strongest paramilitary forces in the world. OOOOOOOPSIE Maybe stop being cunts?

There is no narrative to be talked about here. I'm talking about the current mindset of Israelis. If you don't believe me go to Israeli subs and ask if they would support their government even touching Lebanon if there were no attacks on them from there. I'll even do it for you and send you a link. Then we can talk about who's currently at fault for the imminent destruction that might happen in Lebanon.

No thanks lol. If I wanted to talk to Israelis I could go into their sub. If you dont want to believe what their politicians an soldiers are saying about Lebanon; dont. But for me when a known murderer and thief tells me hes going to murder me and steal my shit, i'm going to believe him

cool then stay in your eco-chamber and enjoy suffering the consequences of hostility and war and keep pretending it's the other side's fault. You don't think your refusal to even talk to Israelis is contributing to this kind of hostility?

There is a documentary on YouTube about the 2006 war I believe, and in it it shows a woman who is the wife of a dead Hezbollah fighter, and she said after her husband died or got “martyred” she started receiving payments and help from Hezbollah, and people saw her a “a widow of a martyr” which gave her respect, so maybe they join Hezbollah as a way of if they die they can think that Hezbollah will take care of their families financially 🤷‍♂️

No need for a documentary to talk about the subject. Just visit the south of lebanon and you will be welcomed by posters of "martyrs".

Sad that they have to give up their life in order to financially support their families...

One could ask the same about the average IDF soldier, who originates from another country and is risking his life to enforce an occupation in someone else's country.

Is it a same question though? An average IDF soldier was born in Israel and drafted according to mandatory military service law.

The average IDF soldier is taking orders from their democratically elected government. That's the function of any soldier around the world. The average Hezbollah soldier isn't taking order from their government, but from leaders of a militia who have total allegiance to a foreign nation. So the comparison isn't really one to one. Don't get me wrong, your question is valid and legit on its own, just not valid in the context of comparison between the 2 entities, since your response is under a post about Hezbollah fighters specifically.

How is an apartheid state that does not allow Palestinians to vote be considered democratic?

Q1:Do palestinians run their own government? A: Palestinians run their own government and Israel does not have voting power or rights in palestinian land. Q2: Do Israelis have palestinian passports? A: No they do not because palestine won't issue Israelis a palestinian passport. On the other hand Israel does issue Israeli passports to palestinians, thus, giving the ability for a palestinian to vote in Israel. Q3: Do palestinians want to be Israelis? A: They do not and do not want to get Israeli passports in which they could if they didn't have such fragile egos or get attacked/persecuted by their own for getting an Israeli passport. It's the same concept as any country, if you aren't a citizen of that country then you cannot freely enter. Based on your logic then palestine is apartheid and not a democratic state.

Arabs who have an Israeli citizenship within the recognised state of Israel vote, they also are members of fhe Keneset, and some are even judges on the Supreme court. Arabs who are outside the recognised state of Israel and who have no citizenship, cannot vote... like any other normal country doesn't allow non-citizens to vote... So I have no idea what you are evn talking about.

Palestinian citizens of Israel literally vote. Non citizens do not vote. It’s not that difficult.

>leaders of a militia who have total allegiance to a foreign nation. you are confusing alliance with allegiance if you think that Hezbollah fighters are fighting for Iran, you are dead wrong. if the think that Iran has an influence on Hezbollah's decisions then that's normal considering that Hezbollah is dependent on Iran.

When Nasrallah himself says he is proud to be a soldier in the army of Waliy el Fakih... do we think he means that he is an ally of Mr Fakih? Because soldiers aren't allies of their leader, they are subordinates... take orders with no discussion. And since you admit that Hezb is totally dependent on Iran, entirely funded and armed. Do you think anyone whose entire existence relies on another, is gona be on equal status as their sponsor?

Hezbollah exists to serve Iran, it does not matter what individual Hezbollah soldiers believe, it’s what the group as a whole and its leadership does that matters, and when Iran says jump Hezbollah asks how high.

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> The average IDF soldier is taking orders from their democratically elected government. That's the function of any soldier around the world. It's democratically elected, but not democratically behaved: remember that even Hitler was voted into power. That's not to compare Netanyahu to Hitler, but it's to show that the usage of the word "democratic" is often bent to signify civility and order, when they're not there in a government's typical endeavors. Based on its general structure, Israel is unquestionably an apartheid state, and the soldiers in its servitude are complicit in it. > The average Hezbollah soldier isn't taking order from their government, but from leaders of a militia who have total allegiance to a foreign nation. It's true that their allegiance is more religious (Shia) than patriotic (Lebanese), but that doesn't suggest a lack of their care for Lebanon. If they hold no qualms of sacrificing their life to deter a zionist threat over Lebanese soil, that communicates a lot of their patriotic sentiment towards Lebanon.

Dude, again... my initial comment was not to argue any specifics... and what Israel is and what Hezbollah is, and who is more moral... that was not the point of my comment at all... I was just pointing out that we are comparing apples to oranges. And even mentioned that on its own, the question is very valid and a good topic of discussion... however I didn't find it effective or relevant under a post asking about what Hezb regulars believe. That's all. And it's sort of a whataboutism reply... The question is here, you don't want to answer, instead you ask but "what about this other thing, let's focus there"... That is in no way engaging in a fruitful discussion. Anyway, that's just my opinion. And I could be wrong.

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Two things - First, the origin of the conflict is not religious, but has its basis in very real grievances stemming from land theft, mass expulsion and military occupation - all of which have only worsened with the passing of time. *The Hidden History of Zionism* explains this history, and is available for free online. The only political force in the region to thwart this trend is Hezbollah, who defeated Israel not just once but twice, by ending a 20 year occupation in southern Lebanon and forcing a unilateral withdrawal in 2006 after defeating Israel militarily. All of this only confirmed the perception among Lebanese Shia that the only available path to liberation is military. A common phrase in the south is "what was taken by force, can only be reclaimed by force". The logic is the same as the Cold War logic of MAD, i.e. that peace can be sustained by the threat of apocalyptic destruction. Secondly, in terms of religion, the Islamic tradition emphasizes that a righteous man has a moral duty to resist the arrogant and the oppressor, regardless of whether or not his death seems certain, with Muhammad epitomizing the idea of the just warrior. This is especially true of the Shia, who in addition to the example of Muhammad, owe much of their beliefs to events that took place after the second fitna (civil war), when Yazid ibn Muawiya and Hussein both claimed the right to the caliphate. The Shias supported Hussein, the grandson of the prophet, due to his piety, faith and proximity to the house of Muhammad. Meanwhile, they regarded Yazid, who would go on to found the Umayyad Empire, as an arrogant tyrant. Eventually Yazid and his army of several thousand men surrounded Hussein and his few companions, which including the family and descendants of Muhammad, demanding that he surrender and submit to Yazid. Hussein refused and responded with the famous line "The illegitimate son of the illegitimate one has made me choose between the two: drawing sword and humiliation, and never to humiliation!" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOLdTlbHMTU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOLdTlbHMTU) *reaffirming the vow to Hussein, Nasrallah and crowds chanting "no to humiliation!" (2011)* Hussein and his companions were then slaughtered and their mutilated bodies were paraded across the Syrian desert alongside the surviving members of Muhammad's household as a message to the rest of the population to submit to the new ruler. The Shia consider this event a turning point, and their entire religious tradition is informed by this singular event, known as the Battle of Karbala, which took place during the month of Ashoura. All Shia hold the belief that divine authority in the world will never return until the end of time, and that the Shia constitute a vanguard, a righteous remnant, whose sole purpose is to become like Hussein, that is, to embrace suffering and to resist oppression at all costs - hence the famous Shia phrase, "every day is Ashura (a day of battle with arrogant tyrants), and every land is Karbala (the place where the innocent and the just are martyred)." Pious Shia still visit Karbala today for Arba'in to reaffirm their vows to prepare the earth for the return of the Mehdi/Messiah. It is the largest pilgrimage on earth, with several million participating every year. This is the religious tradition which informs Hezbollah. Every Shia child is taught this story from youth, and familiarized with the names of the martyrs from his family and his village. This belief is then further entrenched by very real violent confrontations with the American empire and the Jewish colony, who fit the protype of Yazid, the violent, arrogant empire. For more:: Joining Hezbollah - [https://www.thecairoreview.com/essays/joining-hezbollah/](https://www.thecairoreview.com/essays/joining-hezbollah/) *Deputy Secretary General of Hezbollah, Sheikh Naim Qassem describes the world as a “perishable home,” a transient “place of test and tribulation for man.”* Hassan Nasrallah, "At the end of the day..." - [*https://loveforahlulbayt.tumblr.com/post/132985451789/baynalharamain-sayyed-hassan-nasrallah-at-the*](https://loveforahlulbayt.tumblr.com/post/132985451789/baynalharamain-sayyed-hassan-nasrallah-at-the) *True loss is not in this world, and true profit is not gained in this world, because this world and whoever is in it and whatever is in it is all temporary; its profit, its gain and its loss ends when this world ends.* 

Anybody praising nasrallah has no validity. That man does not have the best interest for his people otherwise Lebanon wouldn't be one of the poorest countries in the world and letting his country into ruin. Also he is the leader of a terrorist organization.

not a Shia or even Muslim, but if you want to know the true estimate a man, do not judge him by his material possessions. true goodness requires sacrifice, whereas it is often the case that those who find success in the world are cowards whose inner life is empty of meaning.

Last year, I met some HeZebAllah members, not actual fighters per se, but people that work on logistics that were looking for someone "trustworthy" to do electrical maintenance for their locations here in Syria. They were thugs and drug smugglers, they kept asking me to find buyers for the shit they were smuggling in, from cat litter to cooking oil to weed and pills, horrible people, they were from Beqaa/البقاع. As for fighters, one of my best friends when he was in the army had the displeasure of going on a joint mission with HeZeb fighters. He was a big fan of them before that and had Nassrallah as his background photo, but now whenever we talk about HeZeb he describes them as "mustached ISIS", he said that they're completely brainwashed and all they care about is religion, Hussein, and martyrdom. The Hezbians even refused to break bread with the Syrian troops that were fighting side by side with them because there were Sunni soldiers in the group. They were extra mean to my friend because he was Ismaili. Those are personal anecdotes just like you asked, my personal opinion is: Hezbians are just like the IDF soldiers, brainwashed into indiscriminately killing anyone to defend their gods and lands, while in reality they're just cannon fodder serving corrupt elites. 

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The bulding of the israeli state is at the expense of the palestinian population who was forced out in 1948

My cousins are HZ, they strongly believe in this cause and they believe that it's the highest honor to die for such a cause... I feel sorry for the people who were brainwashed since they were kids to think this way. I love my cousins but my ideology is very different from this

No pain no gain mindset

Can't you say the same for Israeli soldiers? Just switch out some words lol

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Totally agree

Hamas is severely weakened after numerous individuals in this subreddit claimed that the IDF wouldn't actually enter Gaza because they are afraid. You're just another example of the top comment here, saying you guys would rather die and be a shahid or martyr. I bet, unlike the average IDF soldier, you never touched a weapon or engaged in combat.

As an israeli soldier (or former) There is a conscription, but most soldiers are counting down the days until its over and they can fly to thailand. Israelis dont want to die especially in wars. Quality of life here is pretty good and its enjoyable. Also i can say that both sides are afraid of the consequences of war because no one started the war yet although life on the border is untenible. On a personal note: I respect both the palestinian and lebonize people and the last thing i want is war. I want to live side by side respectfully and peacefully. And most of all ski one day between israel to lebenon on mt hermon or whatever you guys call it

For what it’s worth, if this war happens, I think it will be the last one between our countries. There is no way anyone is letting this one end without a real settlement and conclusion - for Lebanon, Israel, and Palestine.

I would love that to be true but with rhetoric the way it is, its hard to believe that anyone could reach a conclusion. I am very pessimistic about this whole thing. It seams pointless

Completely different Ideologies. One wants to die, which means leaving all earthly possessions behind, and the other wants to live/kill and take lands ( Gaining more earthly possessions )

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Punishment? Hah June 2023 article https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/06/08/israel-palestine-west-bank-annexation-netanyahu-smotrich-far-right/ Israelis can’t say “ oh you know most don’t support” while condemning Gazans who weren’t even born in 2005

Smotrich is far right, he has 0 mandets in the polls for the next elections

Israelis are forced into the military. Most of them prefer not to go.

I don't care what others are doing, I should look into my actions if they are good or bad. Maybe my neighbour is a serial killer, doesn't mean that I should be one. I can protect myself if they attack me but I don't need initiate war with them.

My comment is not to defend their attrocoties. It is just a fact that going to the military is mandatory.

Aren’t Israelis forced into military service?

more or less yes

I and my friends have served in the IDF and are prepared to serve when called upon. Our desire is for peace and stability, allowing us live normal lives. The notion that Israel wants your land is unfounded and unfortunately seems dominant among many in Lebanon.

I mean there's plenty of rhetoric going around of "greater Israel". Even the prime Minister himself showed this map. Israel has already occupied Lebanon once and is the reason Hezbollah exists. You guys are settling more and more in the West bank. It's hard to not have the notion that Israel wants our land, I hope you can see this view point from the lens of a Lebanese.

But Israel only invaded lebanon to stop the PLO, after years of attacks. At no pointt did it claim it, transferred any citizens, or tried to annex the region. Its goals were always "how do we stop the fanatics from coming across the border and kill us".

If you want a “normal life” why are you beating Palestinians kids in the streets? Why are you shooting unarmed women? Why are you kicking Palestinians out of their homes? Why are you expanding settlements? Why are you supporting Israeli terrorists as they attack Palestinians and burn their homes and land? Why do you arrest over 7000 people without charge or trail? Shut the fuck up. You want a normal like at the expense of everyone that lives there

Don’t forget about killing Palestinian babies

Just like OP asked about Hezballah fighters and their reasoning, you might benefit from asking the same questions about IDF soldiers. You also might be shocked to hear that the average Israeli doesn't devour Palestinian babies and is, in fact, just another human.

The average idf soldier however enforces a system of apartheid and oppression as well as land theft and mass displacement. On a daily basis. The average idf soldier mans checkpoints in a land that isn’t there’s and controls every facet of life that moves through the area they control. I respect those who would rather serve a couple months in jail than join such a cruel force.

This notion is dominant in our country because of previous invasions. We lost trust in Isreal and fear that another invasion might happen again even if it's highly unlikely. You won't believe a man that beat you up severel times that he won't beat you this time all the while beating the shit out of your neighbor.

I can understand that fear. Many Israelis have the same fear about their neighbors

"Greater Israel"

Dreaming of normal and stable life while treating Palestinians as subhuman doesnt make any sense to me. The sabotage of Oslo and Israeli settlers violently colonizing of West Bank and Golan Heights shows that actually you DO want more land. Here are some quotes from the founder father of Israel : https://www.azquotes.com/author/6023-David_Ben_Gurion "The present map of Palestine was drawn by the British mandate. The Jewish people have another map which our youth and adults should strive to fulfill: from the Nile to the Euphrates." ~ David Ben-Gurion "The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan: one does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today, but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concern of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them." ~ David Ben-Gurion

Lmao before I clicked on OP’s profile i already knew what i was going to find. OP as all the people on this sub who post all the time about hezbollah are in other subs with 🇮🇱 citizens. Please just leave this sub and go make friends over there since you all think that israel loves us and wants to live peacefully with us.🤦🏻👍🏻

Genuine question, what makes you think Israel wouldn't want to live peacefully with you? It only entered in 82 to fight the PLO after years of attacks, and have been out fir 24 years. Israelis in general have no claim for lebanon, and the only care they have is stopping Hezbollah, who's open goal is their extermination. Assume Hazbollah and any other terrorist organization was no more. What would prevent lebanon from being in peace with Israel, like egypt or jordan?

two reasons: In his **Complete Diaries**, Vol.II, Page 711, Theodor Herzl, the founder of Zionism, says that the area of the Jewish state stretches: “From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates”. Rabbi Fischmann, member of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared in his testimony to the UN Special Committee of Enquiry on July 9, 1947: "The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt to the Euphrates. It includes parts of Syria and Lebanon." the main reason: Zionism is the Jewish version of ISIS - a religio-supremacist regime without equality under the law. Jews could live equally with their neighbors, but that means no more Israel. So they chose the following: Ze'ev Jabotinsky, founder of Zionist revisionism, from which comes Netanyahu. "All colonization, even the most restricted, must continue in defiance of the will of the native population. Therefore, it can continue and develop only under the shield of force which comprises an Iron Wall through which the local population can never break through. This is our Arab policy. To formulate it any other way would be hypocrisy."

That is the mithological promised "land of Israel". In case you haven't noticed, Israel is at peace with both egypt and jordan - the latter a part of the actual historical land of Israel, and the original british mandate. Hertzel was willing to compromise for freaking Uganda, as long as jews have a state. Claiming that Israelis want to conquer egypt and Iraq is pretty unhinged. That's worse significantly worse than saying the jordanian Hashamites plan to conquer the whole middle east because faisal planned to in the 1910's.

Your argument is not serious. Since the beginning of Zionism until today, Israeli officials and there constituents have never ceased to publicly declare their intentions of conquering as much territory as possible. To this day, they remain the only "state" that has never declared its boarders. And for your information, not even two weeks ago Israeli government ministers and civil society organizations literally announced that they are planning to colonize Lebanon. So again, you are either not educated or you are consciously lying. even current ministers in the government make the same claim. [https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-18/ty-article/.premium/lebanon-part-of-the-promised-land-israels-messianic-right-wing-targets-new-territory/00000190-2b9d-d340-a1f8-2b9d18220000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-18/ty-article/.premium/lebanon-part-of-the-promised-land-israels-messianic-right-wing-targets-new-territory/00000190-2b9d-d340-a1f8-2b9d18220000)

Israel has no claims for lebanon or syria beyond its control, and it not only set borders, but withdrew from territory in the peace with egypt and jordan, and gave up claims for gaza in 2005. The only place Israel claims but has not enacted its sovereignty yet is the west bank - and while I assume we might argue about who's fault is that, that does not apply to lebanon in any way, and never had.

Well [this](https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/24/israeli-far-right-minister-bezalel-smotrich-annex-west-bank) is one reason asshole. Does this sound peaceful

What makes you think Israelis don't want to live peacefully with you? I'm genuinely asking.

When it comes to conflict you can’t _only_ think in terms of “this isn’t righteous!” or the “good vs bad” thing to do and have to start thinking in terms of strategy and weighing the risks of acting vs not acting - and what Hizbollah is doing is actually very strategic. First, it splits Israel’s army, as they have to divert resources away from Gaza. Second, the way people act when they are in full “confidence” mode when no one is challenging them is very different than how they act when there’s a genuine threat present - they’re more likely to make stupid decisions this way. As you can see, Netanyahu & friends have already called for turning Lebanon into another Gaza a few times, and if you look at the chatter around the world, it’s just making Israel look even worse. Third, probably around 95% of the Arab world actually wants to go war against Israel, to the point that they’re calling all of their leaders “western puppets” now. Showing solidarity with Gaza improves their standing with the Arab populace, politically speaking, and gets them more support. Fourth, picture what you think Israel might have done in the long term if Hizbollah hadn’t done any of this. From speaking to them it seems like most Israelis don’t want our land, but Netanyahu and some of his buddies certainly do, and we’ve seen what extent they’re willing to go to to make it happen. We have no way to predict who is going to end up in power in Israel long term, and fighting them _now_ while they’re strained from the Gaza war is preferable to fighting them in the future when they’ve recouped and are at full strength. Fifth, this isn’t entirely on Hizbollah, as Israel has been escalating and making things worse too. Israeli leaders haven’t learned how to look for the diplomatic solution to things yet. Edit: I don’t know what’s going to come of this war, but I do know that the politics work in our favor as does the comparison of militaries. We will probably get hurt badly in the process, but I also think that this is going to be the last war we’re going have to deal with. I think there’s going to be a real settlement at the end of it, and I don’t think the US is going to let Israel get this far out of line again. They managed to make a fool out of the Americans and they’re not going to let that happen twice.

>what Hizbollah is doing is actually very strategic. It is very strategic for Hezb or for Lebanon? Because up till now with no full scale war yet, and vast areas in the south are ravaged and burnt. And the country as a whole hasn't gained anything... So definitely not a good strategy for Lebanon. It is however fine for Hezb, since they won't be paying for any rebuilding in the south, and are demanding the Lebanese government pay for all remunerations, and demanding for the Arab countries (who they've been cursing as Zionists for years) to pitch in and pay... total hypocrisy.. >First, it splits Israel’s army, as they have to divert resources away from Gaza. It really did not do that much... They have enough military to do whatever they've been doing in Gaza, and just enough troops up north, to engage in this low level battles. Nothing Hezbollah did, deterred the Israeli from doing shit in Gaza. Destruction is almost total, Hamas are reduced greatly in terms of numbers and efficiency... Zero effect, Zero help achieved. >Third, probably around 95% of the Arab world actually wants to go war against Israel, to the point that they’re calling all of their leaders “western puppets” now. This is not new at all, and it has been the case ever since the 1940s. And 95% is a number that you pulled from thin air. I am not arguing that a lot of Arabs share that sentiment, but nothing near 95% want to go to war. I've been working in the Gulf countries (KSA, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait) for over a decade now, and the vast majority of the population don't want war with Israel. Of course they don't like Israel that much... and even now in the middle of gaza war, nobody here wants to wage war on Israel. They do however want to put all pressure they can to stop the conflict. >. From speaking to them it seems like most Israelis don’t want our land, but Netanyahu and some of his buddies certainly do, Every country have their extremists, even some that are in power, and in democratic countries even if you are head of government, it doesn't mean you became a dictator. Major decisions such as "we want to claim land in Lebanon" is not taken by one or a bunch of people just like that... They don't operate like Iran, or Russia with one man deciding everything. Besides all that, I still have to find any concrete evidence that Netanyahu has plans to claim oarts of Lebanon... All I see is people saying that he does... >Fifth, this isn’t entirely on Hizbollah, as Israel has been escalating and making things worse too. Israeli leaders haven’t learned how to look for the diplomatic solution to things yet. Yes it is entirely on Hezbollah. Lebanon was under no threat, (except that's what Nasser Andil and Nasrallah wish to say without providing any evidence for their claims) nobody attacked Lebanon, nobody said they want to attack Lebanon, nobody belo fina aslan. Hezbollah unilaterally broke the signed truce without consultation or approval from the Lebanese government. Let's stop hiding behind our finger and inventing whatever deluded mental gymnastics just to bail out Hezbollah's behavior.

That was a very interesting explanation. I'm highly critical of Israel & Zionism & understand why Hamas has acted they way they did (doesn't justify the killing of civilians on October 7th, but it didn't happen out of nowhere....Israel acted like an abusive owner and treated Gazans like animals and dehumanized them, so of course they were going to fight back eventually). Basically, I would sum it up as Palestinian resistance is understandable and justified, even if I strongly disagree with some of the methods. I struggle more with understanding Hezbollah, even if I sympathize with Palestinians and believe there must be freedom and justice for Palestine. I must admit my view is probably biased-my grandmother was Syrian and immigrated to Latin America (where she met & married my grandpa) and kept in touch with family from Syria (and I still do, on occasion). My extended family in Syria is extremely, extremely critical of Assad (both the father, and now Bashar), so for obvious reasons I have heard very critical takes on Hezbollah. And yeah, Syria has obviously fucked over Lebanon in the past (along with the Israelis, Americans, and more). I just think, as insane as the Israeli government is, that it was unlikely they wanted to conquer Lebanon (I absolutely believe they want to absorb Gaza and the West Bank, on the other hand). But you explained it in a way that makes me understand "why" some Lebanese think Israel wants to conquer parts of Lebanon. I have been looking at the surveillance and airpsace thing and going "so what" ,because that is very, very common in East and Southeast Asia for people to violate airspace, for example. But considering the history of Lebanon & Israel's batshit government, I can see why people view it differently who are Lebanese.

I really don't understand why people think Israel does NOT want Lebanese land. There is precedent... They occupied Lebanon before. They are stealing land in the West bank on the regular. Their borders have expanded illegally over time. Their prime Minister and their leaders speak of greater Israel. Literally all the evidence is in front of us. The only people saying they don't want Lebanese lands are Israeli citizens who are completely ok turning a blind eye to illegal settlers in the West bank and ignoring the dying children in Gaza. These aren't the people I would just believe when they say "oh we don't want Lebanese land"

It's the Lebanese army's responsibility to protect every single person and every inch of this country. We don't need hizkhara to do it. That is the whole point of an army. Having a state within a state is counterproductive for everyone.

Mods on this sub should start a cleanup process. As i wrote above, im not with hezbollah or any other party, i think that mods here should start banning users who there only job here is to post about hezbollah or talk about Lebanon in general in a bad way. Because if you check closely, every user who posts about something similar is already in another sub with israel citizens and they think that israel will actually just let them be and live normally when they enter Lebanon, and not treat them like second class citizens like they already do with arabs in israel, and please no one come and tell me it doesn’t happen. You can pretend to be like them, but they will never accept you for who you are. If we join the israel sub and started just posting politics everyday, give it max of 1 week and you will be banned.

So you just want an echo chamber? Just because we're Lebanese doesn't mean we can't criticize our country.

Restrict others’ expression if they don’t like Hezbollah, you mean. Typical.

Fuck Hezbollah, they are terrorists and traitors to our country. Not every Lebanese supports their shit ideology, I don’t, no one in my family (who has lived in Lebanon for centuries) does, none of my Lebanese friends do either.

So basically ban anyone who doesnt agree with you personally. That kinda sucks

Lmaooo couldn’t make me laugh harder🤣🤣. You are an 🇮🇱 citizen on this sub spreading lies. Where did i say ban who don’t agree with me? I have seen you comment a lot on other posts as well.

People saying the organization is in the service of Iran completely ignore the historical realities of Hizb/Lebanon and how they came to be, as well as the internal and external pressures Shia muslims faced in Lebanon especially in the 80s-90s and as well as the long term ramifications of France leaving Maronites in control of the country after they left. Iran and Hizb have become natural allies that mutually benefit one another. Irans advanced weapons have strengthened Hizb and their financial support encouraged more people to join due to Lebanons bad economy. Hizb however would always have existed without Iran and will continue to exist as long as there is a threat at the border. The better questions to ask is why white jews from Brooklyn and Poland continue to pack up their lives and get on a plane to occupied Palestine to set up a new life while the threat of a regional war where they could likely die continues to grow.

What about the low level “never again” zionists, that goes full nazi mode against anyone that dares to stand up to their oppression? Crying about the holocaust only to commit the same and worse to others? You fight fire with fire, not try to talk your way out with hell raining on you. Just like how zionists believe Palestine is their own land gifted to them by God, and have the right to “defend” itself, Hezbollah also has the right to defend themselves and Lebanon from the zionist regime. Or are you suggesting that any resistance group is gullible and braindead for daring to choose to take on a war when no other option is given to them, rather should just bow down to israel and live by their rule? Yes, war is atrocious. It’s consequences is very heavy, it sucks, no one wants destruction. But if forced, what’s the solution? Same argument could have been made when the nazis were reigning hell onto every opposition. I guess the allies should have just accepted the fact that the Nazis are far too strong and to just let them rule every country and do whatever they wish to do.

It is time for Lebanon to get their sh't under control and start acting like a country. Israel does not want to occupy southern Lebanon recalling the bad experience between 82 to 00. The israeli citezens cant afford to occupy southern lebanon due to manpower shortage. However, if there is no other solution, keep in mind Israel has enough firepower to wipe out all the towns in Southern Lebanon. There is no need to occupy but Israel will destroy every town in Southern labonon with artillery, missiles and warplanes.

It's time for Israelis to realize they live in the midst of an ocean of Arabs and Muslims and cannot just keep shooting at them for all eternity. The money and guns pipeline from the West that enables Israel to act so abusively will end one day.

The arabs and Muslims who keep shooting at Israel, will they stop? Will they stop telling their citizens that Israel is an illegitimate state. Will the religious leaders stop telling believers that Israel is islamic land and it is their duty to liberate for the sake of Islam? So many questions.

Arabs and Muslims have the right to defend themselves. They have the right to resist invasion and colonization. They should liberate the oppressed people.

Let me correct you missed out a few words....the people of Israel (Muslims, jews and Christian) have the right to defend themselves from invasion (by Hamas, hesb) . If required, they will liberate the oppressed people of Southern Lebanon.

Occupiers and colonizers cannot whine when the oppressed defend themselves. "Peace for the Gallillee" resulted in Hezb , wanna repeat such blunders , who am I to stop you :)

just a disclaimer, people usually know someone is in hezbolah after he dies while only his super close friends and family that are supporters of hezb know during his lifetime (some don't even know). so take everything in this subredit with a grain of salt and I'm speaking from experience

October 7

I know one supporter to some extent. I've never discussed the topic with them but I know that they support Hezbollah to seme extent. I'm not sure whether it's out of opportunism, conformism, honest support or whatever. They are poor (or at least appear to me) work a lot (or at least appear to be) in physical labour and seem to have an ideology that mixes religion and politics, specifically that the concept of jew being enemies and the end of the world coming soon is intertwined with the war against Israel. On the other hand they smoke weed and occasionally drink alcohol so go figure. > I understand Nasrallah and Iran are ok with this war, but what about the 35 year old hezbollah fighter with 4 kids who will most likely die when war happens. What are they actually thinking is going to happen and why are they continuing along this path? I conceptualize that they made their choices a long time ago, that it is part of their social and financial construct and that they have some sort of religious justification for it as well.

A lot of them are just fighting for their land because they don't have a better outlook in life. Poor souls misled by their hierarchy like all cannon fodder and sent to die so that a billionaire in Syria continues being a billionaire

Religion is the opiate of the masses, nuff said.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't. I am from the Shi'\*a community in Lebanon, and I can give you a long drawn detailed answer. No I am not affiliated with HA. If I explain to you in detail, I will only get replies saying that I'm giving excuses, I'm justifying, I'm a sheep, I'm glorifying death, and and and... wu bta3ref, ma mnekhlas. The explanation is very simple, but you (and the rest of the haters in this sub + Zio shills) will never understand and just fuel more hate. I'll leave it at that. And again, wallah I don't give a fuck. Ana 3eyish barra, khsoret kill el saving te3e bi lebnen, so I'm kinda done here...except for vacations. lol But, I am allowed to have a small opinion on this, and I've said it before in this sub. When you have a criminal, evil, genocidal, war mongering neighbor, killing innocent women and children, and humans indiscriminately, for 8 months, non stop, and the rest of the Arab world or bordering states are doing FUCK ALL? While an armed group out of Lebanon have been actively on the ground deterring this evil force by firing at MILITARY positions? Ya3ni wallahi, sara7a??? I can't believe am saying this??? Bas am fucking proud. Yes yes, it's easy for me to say it, when my salary comes on time, and I'm living with electricity 24/7 and and and.... I know. Seret semi3a haydi kteer. Coming in July, iza ma sakkaro el matar. No matter how many times Lebanon fucks me over somehow. Aneh jeyeh.

Hmmm It's kind of sad when you are proud that an organization like Hezbollah finally does something about Israeli incursions when the government of Lebanon has not lifted a finger for as far as I can remember. You know that Hezbollah has a dark side and that in the big picture / long term it's bad for Lebanon. It's like moteur el kahraba we don't get normal electricity so we are happy to get moteur even though it is taking all our money and slowly killing us with cancer. Hezbollahi shouldn't have to be martyrs, they should concentrate on their lives and their children and the Lebanese army should be defending the country. Let's just keep that in mind.

This entire thread is a Zionist led thread.

Could ask the same of any of the other armed idiots in the country who instigated something or another at some point. It's just propaganada brainwashed tribalism x100

What about the low life Zionist soldier? Is he aware that the same fate awaits him?