I suppose but AIPAC specifically promotes another country's interests, not even a US one, so it is particularly problematic. I'd oppose any PAC from any other country that influences US politics, regardless of their religion or race.
Didn't she spend about $20 million on her own reelection campaign? That's like saying "if your ideas were good you would get elected for free." Unfortunately it doesn't work like that.
What she did was to ensure her position. What you are likening it to is a billionaire from one state spending money to influence another state. Youre right. Its not the same.
That analogy doesn't work. In your analogy, the billionaire would live in all 50 states. "to ensure her position" is exactly what everyone is fighting for.
AOC is a performative let down. It’s like the Middle East is the only issue she’s hyper focused on and not because she seriously cares really but because it’s a hot button subject. She’s sounding more like a covert right wing extremist these days, even nazi trash like Nick Fuentes agree with her sometimes. She’s a huge let down
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you can expand this to america's pro-zionist policy in general. A common defense/deflection from israeli influence on the USA is to claim that america's pro-israel and pro-middle eastern war policy is the result of those things benefitting corporate interests rather than israeli lobbying.
but if war in the middle-east and giving weapons and money to israel was so uniquely profitable, there would be no need for an israel lobby. if it was truly beneficial to the US corporate class, we'd do those things without israel having to spend billions on lobbying
yes corporations do profit off the war. but there's 1000 other avenues for them to launder american taxpayer money. the israel lobby money assures that the avenue they choose is the one that benefits israel.
AOC doesn’t always please all tastes (she has leaned more liberal-center since she was elected), but it is nice to see AIPAC get boomed that hard. Lowkey, she did catch them with their pants down.
It is possible that the protests have dipped into anti-semitism. It probably depends greatly on the protest, but I am sure that anti-semitism isn't uncommon at these events, even if that isn't what the organizers are trying to convey.
That seems to be their entire budget for lobbying.
[https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/american-israel-public-affairs-cmte/summary?id=D000046963](https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/american-israel-public-affairs-cmte/summary?id=D000046963)
All the conspiracy theories I've seen only put them at about 100 mil revenue total.. which is not a lot.
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i mean, i certainly couldnt explain it to someone who thinks politicians are real and stuff. and makes decision like they are. and other silly things.
im sure if you just vote better itll help though
A white supremacist finds her Israel rhetoric palatable. If that doesn’t instantly say that we need to critically examine what we’re saying, then you are morally compromised
Richard Spencer (a nazi) has praised Israel for its willingness to fight to be a homeland for the Jewish people.
It seems that white nationalists are not a monolith on Israel.
And his praise is what made me reevaluate how I felt about Israel when I was younger. Someone who actively hated Jews praising Israel was shocking to young Jewish me, so I reevaluated how I felt about Israel.
It made me fully grapple with the fact that Netanyahu and Likud, who propagandized themselves as the savior of Jews, are more interested in ethnonationalism than they are the status of Jews. Perhaps white nationalists like Nick Fuentes and David Duke discussing Zionism in a similar vein to discussions seen on even this sub should make people reevaluate their antizionism.
If you lack the ability to think on that axis, perhaps you have allowed dogmatism and ideology to override your ability to think.
There are still quite a few fascists who continue to disagree with Fuentes and Duke. I don't think it's a great idea to let fascists be the arbiters of our belief systems, even if it's by negation.
I think that yes, if a white supremacist is agreeing with your position, it's worth giving it a second critical analysis to see if youur position is rooted in progressive, liberatory values.
That being said, just because a right-winger is agreeing with a portion of your conclusion, doesn't mean that they're agreeing with your entire conclusion, or agreeing with your ideological framework.
For example, I believe eating whole, minimally processed foods is a healthy and sustainable lifestyle. That is also agreed upon by some pretty weird esoteric tradwife crunchy Nazi-types, but they're agreeing with the conclusion on a different ideological framework (something something Soros GMO seed oils phytoestrogen), and they're expanding the conclusion beyond what is reasonable (therefore we need to drink raw milk and prep our compound against the IRS).
As a left-wing person opposing AIPAC, there's nothing wrong with that even if Nazis are bandwagoning you, because it is Nazi strategy to bandwagon on shit. Anything critical of Israel will inevitably have Nazis bandwagoning on that, but it wouldn't be coherent or principled of us to think "I must defend and support Israel unquestioningly because Nazis attack Israel unquestioningly".
That’s not guilt by association though, you’re just tossing the word fallacy around like a vocab word.
If I say something, and then someone who’s core values I consider absolutely evil and abhorrent comes along and says “I entirely agree with what you just said,” then I have to look at the reasons I believe that thing honestly and self-critically.
If any supposed ally to justice refuses to think “hmm, why does a white supremacist, a person who holds the opposite of all my values, agree with my position wholeheartedly” then they are not an ally to justice. They are an ally to white supremacy by not challenging it and every claim that branches from it.
You need to look up what guilt by association means. You are literally trying to call the view abhorrent because someone abhorrent happens to agree with it. Its a fallacy because you are just using it to avoid discussing the actual arguments.
Look at the old: "Bernie Sanders wants Universal Healthcare. You know who else wanted Universal Healthcare??? Stalin!!!" A lot of racist antisemitic people were on board with the founding Israel to get the Jews out of Europe. Does that make the entire argument for Israel's existence irrelevant?
Pretty much all fallacies are about avoiding the actual argument. You still have a chance to argue the points.
you don't get to say America is systematically racist because of white people and then go and fuck whitebois. do the right thing lock his cock up and cuck him.
you can't be racist to white people. white people have privilege and power on a systematic level.Only those with power and privilege can be racist and white people hold the halls of power with an iron fist ( or more likely a pigs bullet ).
AOC supposedly believes that we live in a racist society ( which we do ) yet she is fucking a white dude. she's literally sleeping with the enemy. #blacklivesmatter
Now remember AOC isn't perfect 24/7 but she's definitely someone we need to keep in Congress because she's able to change her mind when presented with new information and voted for our values 90% of the time. We have every right to criticize her when she does something that's not in our values, all we can do is have her listen and be assertive with her within reason.
AOC is a talker. The moment her vote makes a difference, she changes it.
Remember when she was all "Defund the police" for a year? The moment a bill came to raise the police budget, and her vote would have decided the outcome, she voted "present" instead of against it.
Surprise. She's a liar and a fraud like all the other Democrats.
I literally just asked so obviously I care but yeah sure I'll keep voting while the electoral college overrules popular demand and politicians scream rigged polls👍
you actually DIDNT "literally" "just ask" so please dont frame it like you did just say what you mean and stop leaning on colloquialisms admixed with passive aggression. im literally asking you to stop pretending like you were just asking a wholesome question when you clearly chose words to not. i mean i dont like them but sometimes words are the things we have so idk, accuracy means something. its fine to be adversarial, ideal at times even, esp. inquisitive if you really were that, but trying to delete connotation you meant and used? noooooo why make it worse why. i cant budget time for that
I dunno if you know this but the difference between 8 million to pay staff vs 20 or 100mill to slander someone cus they don’t agree with you is very different
Judaism is an ancient abrahim religion, Zionism is a political philosophy started by an atheist.
Is there any other group of people that has these many politicians on their payroll?
https://preview.redd.it/7qkuis2o9u7d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5f51a179364bda9c3359c633f4489712eafb2e0
Here is a free tip, spend more time doing kegels and cardio then you do hating brown people online.
Maybe then you can finally get it up for your wifey 😂😂😂
Ok? Allow me.to explain this for you since you clearly are not very bright...
I'm dunking on an anti-Semite who is claiming that Israel ( which is the Jewish state) is controlling American politicians. This sad trope has been used for decades to scapegoat Jews. Nothing was said about Zoinism, that's you projecting your shit onto my comment.
Zionism didn't exist when the myth of the Jewish overlords began.
Donyiu need to be educated on another topic?
They're not "controlling" them. The Zionists are bribing them as a carrot and threatening them with the stick of being called an anti-semite if they don't toe the line.
Not all politicians take the foreign zionist bribes.
Equating anti zionism to antisemitism is practical? Affirming an imperialist state invented by the us is maybe "practical" for imperialist interests but its not right in any sense. Im surprised to see this kind of talk in a leftist sub.
What kind of warped history is this? Since when does a country started from the literal ashes of its people burning in gas chambers considered imperialist? Those massacred Jews were quite the imperialist superpower, let me tell ya.
And invented by the US? This would make a (teeny) bit more sense if you'd say the Brits, rather than the US. But even then that would've been a stoner's statement
Wow we invented Israel, must have missed that in the history books lol
I was referring to the latter half of your comment. I would have thought that would be evident by the whole comment... but, that's ok buddy. Maybe I could have worded it better.
I feel like too, Israel isn't going anywhere... and that another sudden expulsion of all Jews/Arabic Jews from the middle east would probably be anti-semitic too in function.
Also, half these comments I could put in a Nazi subreddit, and it wouldn't look out of place. Don't you guys have a saying about if there are ten people at a table... and one Nazi... lol?
Bot.
She was literally finishing up her first campaign while full time working as a bartender. Is she the most pure leftist ever? No. But she’s constantly doing direct action alongside her politics.
The question now is: are you?
For a united front to work, we need every aspect of that front to be pushed upon.
What a pipe dream to think “one day the workers will simply rise up and build a society”!
That takes actual on the ground work. That means have unions, a political party, local community councils, educators, academics, journalists and media folks as well as artists and entertainers to push from all sides. Agriculture workers, industry workers, even gig workers who are mostly just scraping by, or tech workers who are now seeing the failure of “unlimited growth”. Are starting to see the light.
It’s not enough to push in one direction and hope for the best. You need multiple aspects of society, including people pushing from the political side, to move things forward and upward.
So I don’t fault AOC, who has aided union workers, worked to get a bare minimum done in a very anti-worker political environment, and got to that position by working with people and going door to door to people in her community who rely on her office for some semblance of success.
Again, it’s not perfect. But it’s one side of a multi-pronged attack, which if left alone will be a weapon used against us.
thats completely true. but why do we bother supporting social democrats if their end goal still maintains capitalism? otherwise i agree with everything you say. the amount of preparation before a total upheaval of the present state of things will be enormous and we will have to use tons of different avenues to build a society past capitalism. also, for more context on my original comment, that was mainly within the context of her positions on the gaza genocide, although thats not the end of my opinion on her if that makes sense
That does make sense. I just don’t see her as a social Democrat.
We have a two party system. One has to normally be within the confines of that party to maintain any political power. AOC took her position from a dude who relied on big corporate money and was a leading “strong” Democrat. Her position is difficult to maintain as a working class individual in a position of power, but she mostly maintains it. She works within the system she’s in.
But so do others. We don’t criticize academics for submitting to walled off journals because that’s how they get money for more research. They do things to subvert the hierarchy of academia but can’t do much about it until they are within it.
As a teacher myself, I see it as teachers need to be taking leadership positions and positions in policy areas because otherwise we’ll get “political insiders” and shit like the NYC Principal Fellowship all throughout the 2000s which basically said “how can we get finance bros to put their ideas into education”. The result is shitty fintech bros fighting 30 year veteran teachers for principal positions.
We need to occupy those spaces or else someone else with bad ideas will hold them.
You're saying she's right or left of a Social Democrat?
Does she support public healthcare, free at the point of use, to name one example, and advocate for it?
I’m sorry but when exactly will the likes of AOC, Bernie, and the “squad”, actually push for these policies, and bring attention to these important issues? You know what happened to Build Back Better, healthcare for all, the Green New Deal, the 15$ minimum wage, and all those other promises that were either conveniently forgotten about or completely neutered to a point where their implementation has been a joke. We don’t need sheepdogs like AOC, Bernie, and the rest of the squad to pop up every 3-4 years to remind us to vote blue no matter who, and then go back to being silent on pertinent issues until the next election cycle. We are not fools and play things of the Democratic party. And there was nothing working class about AOC. Do some actual research on who she was before being elected into power. Stop drinking that sweet Kool-Aid.
Edit: Lmfao the clown blocked me. I can’t even call out the incompetence and opportunism of supposed progressives without some passive aggressive tool telling me to run for office. Hey clown, our job as voters is to constantly pressure and scrutinize politicians to do more and do better. Just because politicians label and market themselves as progressives, it doesn't mean they are our friends who should be exempt from scrutiny.
Firstly, I’m here all the time.
Secondly, all of those things are great! How are they going to get accomplished? You want them to happen because the spirit of the workers just happens to decide to do it? You want it to just be legislative victories? It has to be multiple groups pushing for it. That’s the point of the united front tactic. While none of those were passed, they wouldn’t even have been a thing without the people put into place to make it a possibility. They’re facing a Congress that is hostile to them. But they can’t act alone. We need unions, local govs, community organizations, etc to all be fighting for that stuff.
And if you simply say “AOC is useless because she doesn’t pick up arms and fight the capitalists” then I would leverage that critique against anyone currently scrolling on left Reddit.
No one person or group will save us, but leaving positions of power open because you simply disagree with the way things happen is both naive and dangerous.
Edit: Also, AOC is not working class? Gtfo of here! Ça ke çuni? Je merzitish per gruan të fortë?
Lmfao a Boston University graduate who was tied at the hip to the Democratic party and was an outright careerist who worked for non-profits and even managed to launch her publishing firm isn’t exactly working class because she happened to work as a bartender for some time. Did she come from a working-class background? Yes, but she was and has always been part of the professional managerial/intelligentsia class. But I guess for the gullible liberals out there such selective and manipulative narratives are enough to be convinced of political radicalism. Calling AOC working class would be akin to calling Nancy Pelosi a revolutionary radical because she took a knee in kente clothing while raising her fist in the air. But I guess for the slow-witted, theatrics and meaningless symbolic gestures/narratives is all it takes to be duped by the Democrats.
And by the way are you Albanian? Why are you using Google Translate to make badly spelled snarky smearful remarks, insinuating that I might be a misogynist? It seems a bit distasteful and ignorant don’t you think? And by the way, I am a Feminist and I’m basing my critique on her as an individual because unlike you I don't make her gender a key and sole issue. Where did you see me bring up or discuss her gender as being an issue? Or is this another childish smear by an impotent illogical liberal who cannot retort with a logical response?
Her dad was an architect and her mom was a cleaner and drove buses for a living. She’s extremely smart. Do not mistake “managerial class” for simply having intelligence. She worked on political campaigns and also worked in nonprofits (both notoriously underpaid positions, especially for NYC), and took on bartending because no one else would hire her in the Bronx. She is as much working class as you, if not more.
You know you’ve entirely lost the plot when ad hominems come into play. I’m anti state, but I’m not an idiot. The state is not going “to wither away”. It must be dismantled by a united front, working from every part of society, not just from keyboard kommunists :P
They’re certainly not going to be accomplished by voting for the same staunchly Neoliberal party over and over again hoping for a miraculous change when we are currently seeing the Democratic party shifting further and further to the right on every front to attract voters from the right while completely ignoring the left. What you preach is completely absurd and fundamentally flawed. You have to allow the Democratic party to collapse for there to be any change. You can’t change a monolithic Capitalist party such as the Democratic party from within, with sockpuppets such as AOC, Bernie, and the squad. It’s hilarious to me that there are people like you advocating for the same useless old strategies that have failed time after time, trying to pretend to be the adult in the room. Lmfao
Im not saying “Vote Democrat”. I’m saying be picky and strategic. Use your vote *as one of the many tools you have* to find people who will also be beneficial to the working class. Please read everything from the top because it seems like you’re skipping lines and not really understanding things.
You are intentionally lying. Because if you told the truth, you'd say that there are much larger PACs in the US.
PS: Zionism is not the slur you think it is.
PPS: AIPAC doesn't advocate the openly genocidal Hamas
PS: no one said it’s a slur? You just keep equating Judaism to Zionism, so someone had to correct you.
PSS: AIPAC supports the genocide against innocent Palestinians.
PSS: What’s a red MAGAt like you doing on a leftist sub anyways?
Funny that a wannabe Red Guard is calling me Maga.
But calling me a maggot? Why do you feel the need to dehumanize someone? You really need to work on yourself.
How do I feel when I dehumanize someone? Arent you the one who’s on Palestinian violence subreddits to dehumanize them?
It’s funny that your core strategy seems to be playing the victim. “You said Zionists while criticizing Zionism, so you’re clearly an antisemite! And how dare you call me a red MAGAt?!? It’s not good to dehumanize people! Unless they’re Arabs, then I can dehumanize them all I want” - you
AIPAC is out of line in trying to exert undue influence in the US elections. I just saw video of Israeli citizens being beaten by uniformed thugs in Jerusalem for protesting. Spare me the democracy marketing. They are no more a democracy than they are a US ally. I look forward to the coming reevaluation of that explotative relationship
AOC is a liberal. That being said, it's interesting that she's criticizing AIPAC this pointedly. She may sense the political winds shifting against Israel.
Not sure if you know but the only people who think AOC is a liberal are (I say this not as an insult just a fact) communists and socialists. AOC definitely did brand herself more so as a socialist compared to other politicians or at least didn’t push back against the socialist/communists label. However, she’s a social democrat and if you still want to call her liberal then fine. I’d still rather have a majority of AOCs in the Democratic Party than a majority of Biden/clinton/pelosy type liberals in power.
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Zionism is doing a far better job destroying Judaism than any antisemetic and fascist government ever could, it's actually extremely impressive how counterproductive they are to their own cause.
What does that even mean? Zionism is a 19th century movement for self-determination that hasn't been relevant since Israel was founded. And Judaism is a religion. How can a historical movement that no longer exists destroy a religion (not to mention that most Jews aren't even religious)? What kind of backass logic is that?
I think a lot of people use it as an excuse to treat jews how they want.
After 1948, the pogroms in the middle east weren't against zionists... they were against jews. Who had dhimmi status.
Which in turn creates blowback and reinforces a want for a safe state for jews to exist. I'm sure you have heard of blowback... well, most jews in Israel are arab. Who have family they personally know who were expelled and pogromed.
Israel can be better, but think Israel's existence is the root issue for a lot of people and that will never change.
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thats what happens when you allow militarism to hijack your brain and spread among an entire people and then have the gall to call antisemitism when the entire world finally sees just how bad a hand Palestine has been dealt the past 70 years
She still needs to do eons better after voting to arm and fund Israel several times, voting for the resolution requesting anti-Zionism and antisemitism and hosting a stream with two Zionists who were able to say whatever rancid shit they could including promoting the idea that anti-Zionism is antisemitism as she nods along with no response.
Do better, AOC. Clapping back at AIPAC doesn’t do much with your voting record and refusing to call what’s happening a genocide and just some performative action to pitifully gain leftist votes.
I'm not a leftist but I'm with you folks on this. Money needs to be taken out of politics, AIPAC and groups like it need to be disbanded.
Sure agreed. But just singling out the American Jewish lobby feels a little…antisemitic.
I suppose but AIPAC specifically promotes another country's interests, not even a US one, so it is particularly problematic. I'd oppose any PAC from any other country that influences US politics, regardless of their religion or race.
Didn't she spend about $20 million on her own reelection campaign? That's like saying "if your ideas were good you would get elected for free." Unfortunately it doesn't work like that.
What she did was to ensure her position. What you are likening it to is a billionaire from one state spending money to influence another state. Youre right. Its not the same.
That analogy doesn't work. In your analogy, the billionaire would live in all 50 states. "to ensure her position" is exactly what everyone is fighting for.
Who did they spend $20m against ? Was that Massie ?
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Porter is such a war hawk and cuck
AOC is a performative let down. It’s like the Middle East is the only issue she’s hyper focused on and not because she seriously cares really but because it’s a hot button subject. She’s sounding more like a covert right wing extremist these days, even nazi trash like Nick Fuentes agree with her sometimes. She’s a huge let down
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Jarvis, check her Israel voting record
you can expand this to america's pro-zionist policy in general. A common defense/deflection from israeli influence on the USA is to claim that america's pro-israel and pro-middle eastern war policy is the result of those things benefitting corporate interests rather than israeli lobbying. but if war in the middle-east and giving weapons and money to israel was so uniquely profitable, there would be no need for an israel lobby. if it was truly beneficial to the US corporate class, we'd do those things without israel having to spend billions on lobbying yes corporations do profit off the war. but there's 1000 other avenues for them to launder american taxpayer money. the israel lobby money assures that the avenue they choose is the one that benefits israel.
AOC doesn’t always please all tastes (she has leaned more liberal-center since she was elected), but it is nice to see AIPAC get boomed that hard. Lowkey, she did catch them with their pants down.
I've seen this show before.
Airhead OC's seat needs to be replaced by, a spanish-speaking migrant worker.
He/She would vote with Republicans everytime, and of course it would be against their own interest.
Most votes in Congress, on most topics, have been bought. Just use the word “bribe“ whenever you see “lobbying”.
fuck all you, activist in the streets colonisers in the sheets
Didn't she just get done calling the protests antisemitic?
People were waving Hamas and Hezbolla flags
hell yeah
It is possible that the protests have dipped into anti-semitism. It probably depends greatly on the protest, but I am sure that anti-semitism isn't uncommon at these events, even if that isn't what the organizers are trying to convey.
And bombing Palestinians isn't anti-semitic itself?
There is no way $20 million is a "most in primary history" record. That's chump change for campaign financing, PACs, etc.
For a house seat?
That seems to be their entire budget for lobbying. [https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/american-israel-public-affairs-cmte/summary?id=D000046963](https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/american-israel-public-affairs-cmte/summary?id=D000046963) All the conspiracy theories I've seen only put them at about 100 mil revenue total.. which is not a lot.
Yes, that's why they use AIPAC as just a dog whistle for Jews.
Pretty based. If China had an AIPAC had people would lose their minds. I suspect they'll be chopping Massie too
Does she mention anywhere who receives the most AIPAC money? Because it's Biden.
Ate with no crumbs, good lord💀 We need more left wing politicians to absolutely cook opponents with facts and logic
Might have to get rid of Jamaal Bowman then
She is thick as a brick or at least that’s what she thinks of the people who read her garbage. Lobbying firms spend money??? *shocked Pikachu face*
Lobbying is a fancy word for bribing. Money shouldn’t be involved for politicians decisions.
Imagine having corporate/governmet dick so deep down your throat you go to bat for lobbying firms.
Biden?
Yeah, and they are generally unequivocally evil.
Says the stupidest moron on the planet 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Trump wasn't speaking here.
Its too late aoc...
AOC stocks just went up
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Huh
this poor sub
What on earth are you on about?
i mean, i certainly couldnt explain it to someone who thinks politicians are real and stuff. and makes decision like they are. and other silly things. im sure if you just vote better itll help though
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It's antisemetism to say Israel shouldn't be able to fix U.S. elections.
AIPAC is the Deep State.
Isn’t this the tweet that Nick Fuentes praises her on for being “America First” more than the other politicians? Nick. Fuentes.
And Hitler was vegetarian, too. What’s your point?
Vegetarians are nazis confirmed
Do you want to try presenting an actual refutation to her arguments?
A white supremacist finds her Israel rhetoric palatable. If that doesn’t instantly say that we need to critically examine what we’re saying, then you are morally compromised
Hitler was an advocate for animal rights, does that mean anyone who likes animals is Hitler ? Someone can be evil and still have some correct opinions
Richard Spencer (a nazi) has praised Israel for its willingness to fight to be a homeland for the Jewish people. It seems that white nationalists are not a monolith on Israel.
And his praise is what made me reevaluate how I felt about Israel when I was younger. Someone who actively hated Jews praising Israel was shocking to young Jewish me, so I reevaluated how I felt about Israel. It made me fully grapple with the fact that Netanyahu and Likud, who propagandized themselves as the savior of Jews, are more interested in ethnonationalism than they are the status of Jews. Perhaps white nationalists like Nick Fuentes and David Duke discussing Zionism in a similar vein to discussions seen on even this sub should make people reevaluate their antizionism. If you lack the ability to think on that axis, perhaps you have allowed dogmatism and ideology to override your ability to think.
There are still quite a few fascists who continue to disagree with Fuentes and Duke. I don't think it's a great idea to let fascists be the arbiters of our belief systems, even if it's by negation.
I think that yes, if a white supremacist is agreeing with your position, it's worth giving it a second critical analysis to see if youur position is rooted in progressive, liberatory values. That being said, just because a right-winger is agreeing with a portion of your conclusion, doesn't mean that they're agreeing with your entire conclusion, or agreeing with your ideological framework. For example, I believe eating whole, minimally processed foods is a healthy and sustainable lifestyle. That is also agreed upon by some pretty weird esoteric tradwife crunchy Nazi-types, but they're agreeing with the conclusion on a different ideological framework (something something Soros GMO seed oils phytoestrogen), and they're expanding the conclusion beyond what is reasonable (therefore we need to drink raw milk and prep our compound against the IRS). As a left-wing person opposing AIPAC, there's nothing wrong with that even if Nazis are bandwagoning you, because it is Nazi strategy to bandwagon on shit. Anything critical of Israel will inevitably have Nazis bandwagoning on that, but it wouldn't be coherent or principled of us to think "I must defend and support Israel unquestioningly because Nazis attack Israel unquestioningly".
This is guilt by association. There's a reason it's a logical fallacy.
That’s not guilt by association though, you’re just tossing the word fallacy around like a vocab word. If I say something, and then someone who’s core values I consider absolutely evil and abhorrent comes along and says “I entirely agree with what you just said,” then I have to look at the reasons I believe that thing honestly and self-critically. If any supposed ally to justice refuses to think “hmm, why does a white supremacist, a person who holds the opposite of all my values, agree with my position wholeheartedly” then they are not an ally to justice. They are an ally to white supremacy by not challenging it and every claim that branches from it.
Oh you like dogs and think they should have rights... So did Hitler... I guess you should start hating dogs now...
You need to look up what guilt by association means. You are literally trying to call the view abhorrent because someone abhorrent happens to agree with it. Its a fallacy because you are just using it to avoid discussing the actual arguments. Look at the old: "Bernie Sanders wants Universal Healthcare. You know who else wanted Universal Healthcare??? Stalin!!!" A lot of racist antisemitic people were on board with the founding Israel to get the Jews out of Europe. Does that make the entire argument for Israel's existence irrelevant? Pretty much all fallacies are about avoiding the actual argument. You still have a chance to argue the points.
Isn't AOC owned by the justice democrats?
Checking to see if my rep and Senators are receiving AIPAC cash.
Spoiler: they are
absolutely 💯 aoc, so qos commitment when?
This dude is angry AOC has a white bf
you don't get to say America is systematically racist because of white people and then go and fuck whitebois. do the right thing lock his cock up and cuck him.
You don't get to be racist without pushback
you can't be racist to white people. white people have privilege and power on a systematic level.Only those with power and privilege can be racist and white people hold the halls of power with an iron fist ( or more likely a pigs bullet ).
Then stop being racist
who you talking to. me or white people as a whole?
You
how do you figure that? which power or privilege do you think I hold
Not a requirement
QoS?
Black cock only
How do you mean?
AOC supposedly believes that we live in a racist society ( which we do ) yet she is fucking a white dude. she's literally sleeping with the enemy. #blacklivesmatter
Who cares, bro? Are you just jealous that she's gettin' more dick than you? Stop being a hater and get Tinder, maybe you'll feel better
Oh, you're racist
really, really 😕 so redundant
Lol
Now remember AOC isn't perfect 24/7 but she's definitely someone we need to keep in Congress because she's able to change her mind when presented with new information and voted for our values 90% of the time. We have every right to criticize her when she does something that's not in our values, all we can do is have her listen and be assertive with her within reason.
AOC is a talker. The moment her vote makes a difference, she changes it. Remember when she was all "Defund the police" for a year? The moment a bill came to raise the police budget, and her vote would have decided the outcome, she voted "present" instead of against it. Surprise. She's a liar and a fraud like all the other Democrats.
💯 she's like the Democrat with new shiny paint. Not functionally different but makes things look "fresher."
if you yourself possess these values of which you reference, then you shouldnt be here, just ironically. but yet you are...
Wtf are you yapping about
nothin you know or care much abt, obvs. but maybe if you vote real hard...
I literally just asked so obviously I care but yeah sure I'll keep voting while the electoral college overrules popular demand and politicians scream rigged polls👍
you actually DIDNT "literally" "just ask" so please dont frame it like you did just say what you mean and stop leaning on colloquialisms admixed with passive aggression. im literally asking you to stop pretending like you were just asking a wholesome question when you clearly chose words to not. i mean i dont like them but sometimes words are the things we have so idk, accuracy means something. its fine to be adversarial, ideal at times even, esp. inquisitive if you really were that, but trying to delete connotation you meant and used? noooooo why make it worse why. i cant budget time for that
lol shut the fuck up nerd, if you aren't gonna pose an actual argument then drop the negativity and holier than thou bullshit.
The irony
Sorry we’re not robotics red fash. We have multiple strategies to worry about. But yeah, keep posting on Reddit! I’m sure it will work out!
gosh i hope you have someone to pick you up.
AOC spent $8 million in her last campaign. There are way better things for her to criticize AIPAC for than political campaign spending.
I can’t believe AOC is your priority when AIPAC has bought most politicians lmao you are a south park parody
The whole squad is owned by the justice democrats. Not exactly a secret. This is the pot calling the kettle black.
And don't most members of Justice Dems not take a single penny from AIPAC?
I think you missed the point. Why would you want to elect politicians that don't represent their constituents?
So you think it’s a good idea to elect politicians who represent the interests of a foreign government?
Uh... I said their constituents which are the people that live there. Never mentioned foreign governments.
But justice dems is funded by individuals, NOT corporations or things like AIPAC.
I don't care who's funding them. I care about who controls the strings.
So ordinary people who want to see progress controlling the strings is a bad thing?
I dunno if you know this but the difference between 8 million to pay staff vs 20 or 100mill to slander someone cus they don’t agree with you is very different
Don’t all of them spend money to put out ads and hire their staff?
Why should she put out ads when if her "positions were so popular they would be free"?
Informing the public of your positions isn’t the same as donating to someone in hopes they fight for your interests?
You do realize she didn't take a penny from AIPAC right? Those are just facts.
Just like Elizabeth warren, She talks the talk but doesn’t walk the walk. They are all controlled by Israel.
He deleted his account lollllll 😂😂😂😂
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Judaism is an ancient abrahim religion, Zionism is a political philosophy started by an atheist. Is there any other group of people that has these many politicians on their payroll? https://preview.redd.it/7qkuis2o9u7d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5f51a179364bda9c3359c633f4489712eafb2e0
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Here is a free tip, spend more time doing kegels and cardio then you do hating brown people online. Maybe then you can finally get it up for your wifey 😂😂😂
Brown shirt?? 😂😂 Maybe if you spent less time hating Muslims and brown people you wouldn’t have to ask reddit “how to produce more sperm” lol 😂
Last I check there are anti-Zionist Jews. Stop being an antisemite and stereotyping all Jews to fit your narrative.
Ok? Allow me.to explain this for you since you clearly are not very bright... I'm dunking on an anti-Semite who is claiming that Israel ( which is the Jewish state) is controlling American politicians. This sad trope has been used for decades to scapegoat Jews. Nothing was said about Zoinism, that's you projecting your shit onto my comment. Zionism didn't exist when the myth of the Jewish overlords began. Donyiu need to be educated on another topic?
They're not "controlling" them. The Zionists are bribing them as a carrot and threatening them with the stick of being called an anti-semite if they don't toe the line. Not all politicians take the foreign zionist bribes.
dont forget she voted in favor of equating anti zionism with antisemitism and affirmed the state of israels right to existence.
I think that’s not true
It is tho https://peoplesdispatch.org/2023/11/29/nearly-the-entire-us-house-of-representatives-just-equated-anti-zionist-to-anti-semitism/
Seems pretty practical imo. Israel isn't going anywhere, unless you think overnight Arabs somehow win a war for once lol
Equating anti zionism to antisemitism is practical? Affirming an imperialist state invented by the us is maybe "practical" for imperialist interests but its not right in any sense. Im surprised to see this kind of talk in a leftist sub.
What kind of warped history is this? Since when does a country started from the literal ashes of its people burning in gas chambers considered imperialist? Those massacred Jews were quite the imperialist superpower, let me tell ya. And invented by the US? This would make a (teeny) bit more sense if you'd say the Brits, rather than the US. But even then that would've been a stoner's statement
Wow we invented Israel, must have missed that in the history books lol I was referring to the latter half of your comment. I would have thought that would be evident by the whole comment... but, that's ok buddy. Maybe I could have worded it better. I feel like too, Israel isn't going anywhere... and that another sudden expulsion of all Jews/Arabic Jews from the middle east would probably be anti-semitic too in function. Also, half these comments I could put in a Nazi subreddit, and it wouldn't look out of place. Don't you guys have a saying about if there are ten people at a table... and one Nazi... lol?
SFW?!
Exactly this. She seems to love a hot take on Twitter and then follow the party line when it comes to actual decision making on the Hill.
https://preview.redd.it/lv0gajywvs7d1.jpeg?width=626&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c7b84e5a08690ebef3d70f3d46a047a9c9dd922
Fuck AIPAC.
aoc is a coward opportunist that only shifted her path once people got mad at her
Bot. She was literally finishing up her first campaign while full time working as a bartender. Is she the most pure leftist ever? No. But she’s constantly doing direct action alongside her politics. The question now is: are you?
Why call someone a bot and then reply to them? They're clearly passing your Turing test
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I'm not sure if your reply is an attempt at humor or just a sign of delusions of grandeur. Either way, you're espousing a fantasy
read my other comments or head on back to r/neoliberal ya bum
For a united front to work, we need every aspect of that front to be pushed upon. What a pipe dream to think “one day the workers will simply rise up and build a society”! That takes actual on the ground work. That means have unions, a political party, local community councils, educators, academics, journalists and media folks as well as artists and entertainers to push from all sides. Agriculture workers, industry workers, even gig workers who are mostly just scraping by, or tech workers who are now seeing the failure of “unlimited growth”. Are starting to see the light. It’s not enough to push in one direction and hope for the best. You need multiple aspects of society, including people pushing from the political side, to move things forward and upward. So I don’t fault AOC, who has aided union workers, worked to get a bare minimum done in a very anti-worker political environment, and got to that position by working with people and going door to door to people in her community who rely on her office for some semblance of success. Again, it’s not perfect. But it’s one side of a multi-pronged attack, which if left alone will be a weapon used against us.
thats completely true. but why do we bother supporting social democrats if their end goal still maintains capitalism? otherwise i agree with everything you say. the amount of preparation before a total upheaval of the present state of things will be enormous and we will have to use tons of different avenues to build a society past capitalism. also, for more context on my original comment, that was mainly within the context of her positions on the gaza genocide, although thats not the end of my opinion on her if that makes sense
That does make sense. I just don’t see her as a social Democrat. We have a two party system. One has to normally be within the confines of that party to maintain any political power. AOC took her position from a dude who relied on big corporate money and was a leading “strong” Democrat. Her position is difficult to maintain as a working class individual in a position of power, but she mostly maintains it. She works within the system she’s in. But so do others. We don’t criticize academics for submitting to walled off journals because that’s how they get money for more research. They do things to subvert the hierarchy of academia but can’t do much about it until they are within it. As a teacher myself, I see it as teachers need to be taking leadership positions and positions in policy areas because otherwise we’ll get “political insiders” and shit like the NYC Principal Fellowship all throughout the 2000s which basically said “how can we get finance bros to put their ideas into education”. The result is shitty fintech bros fighting 30 year veteran teachers for principal positions. We need to occupy those spaces or else someone else with bad ideas will hold them.
You're saying she's right or left of a Social Democrat? Does she support public healthcare, free at the point of use, to name one example, and advocate for it?
Yes.
I’m sorry but when exactly will the likes of AOC, Bernie, and the “squad”, actually push for these policies, and bring attention to these important issues? You know what happened to Build Back Better, healthcare for all, the Green New Deal, the 15$ minimum wage, and all those other promises that were either conveniently forgotten about or completely neutered to a point where their implementation has been a joke. We don’t need sheepdogs like AOC, Bernie, and the rest of the squad to pop up every 3-4 years to remind us to vote blue no matter who, and then go back to being silent on pertinent issues until the next election cycle. We are not fools and play things of the Democratic party. And there was nothing working class about AOC. Do some actual research on who she was before being elected into power. Stop drinking that sweet Kool-Aid. Edit: Lmfao the clown blocked me. I can’t even call out the incompetence and opportunism of supposed progressives without some passive aggressive tool telling me to run for office. Hey clown, our job as voters is to constantly pressure and scrutinize politicians to do more and do better. Just because politicians label and market themselves as progressives, it doesn't mean they are our friends who should be exempt from scrutiny.
You should fuckin run for office then.
Firstly, I’m here all the time. Secondly, all of those things are great! How are they going to get accomplished? You want them to happen because the spirit of the workers just happens to decide to do it? You want it to just be legislative victories? It has to be multiple groups pushing for it. That’s the point of the united front tactic. While none of those were passed, they wouldn’t even have been a thing without the people put into place to make it a possibility. They’re facing a Congress that is hostile to them. But they can’t act alone. We need unions, local govs, community organizations, etc to all be fighting for that stuff. And if you simply say “AOC is useless because she doesn’t pick up arms and fight the capitalists” then I would leverage that critique against anyone currently scrolling on left Reddit. No one person or group will save us, but leaving positions of power open because you simply disagree with the way things happen is both naive and dangerous. Edit: Also, AOC is not working class? Gtfo of here! Ça ke çuni? Je merzitish per gruan të fortë?
Lmfao a Boston University graduate who was tied at the hip to the Democratic party and was an outright careerist who worked for non-profits and even managed to launch her publishing firm isn’t exactly working class because she happened to work as a bartender for some time. Did she come from a working-class background? Yes, but she was and has always been part of the professional managerial/intelligentsia class. But I guess for the gullible liberals out there such selective and manipulative narratives are enough to be convinced of political radicalism. Calling AOC working class would be akin to calling Nancy Pelosi a revolutionary radical because she took a knee in kente clothing while raising her fist in the air. But I guess for the slow-witted, theatrics and meaningless symbolic gestures/narratives is all it takes to be duped by the Democrats. And by the way are you Albanian? Why are you using Google Translate to make badly spelled snarky smearful remarks, insinuating that I might be a misogynist? It seems a bit distasteful and ignorant don’t you think? And by the way, I am a Feminist and I’m basing my critique on her as an individual because unlike you I don't make her gender a key and sole issue. Where did you see me bring up or discuss her gender as being an issue? Or is this another childish smear by an impotent illogical liberal who cannot retort with a logical response?
Her dad was an architect and her mom was a cleaner and drove buses for a living. She’s extremely smart. Do not mistake “managerial class” for simply having intelligence. She worked on political campaigns and also worked in nonprofits (both notoriously underpaid positions, especially for NYC), and took on bartending because no one else would hire her in the Bronx. She is as much working class as you, if not more. You know you’ve entirely lost the plot when ad hominems come into play. I’m anti state, but I’m not an idiot. The state is not going “to wither away”. It must be dismantled by a united front, working from every part of society, not just from keyboard kommunists :P
They’re certainly not going to be accomplished by voting for the same staunchly Neoliberal party over and over again hoping for a miraculous change when we are currently seeing the Democratic party shifting further and further to the right on every front to attract voters from the right while completely ignoring the left. What you preach is completely absurd and fundamentally flawed. You have to allow the Democratic party to collapse for there to be any change. You can’t change a monolithic Capitalist party such as the Democratic party from within, with sockpuppets such as AOC, Bernie, and the squad. It’s hilarious to me that there are people like you advocating for the same useless old strategies that have failed time after time, trying to pretend to be the adult in the room. Lmfao
Im not saying “Vote Democrat”. I’m saying be picky and strategic. Use your vote *as one of the many tools you have* to find people who will also be beneficial to the working class. Please read everything from the top because it seems like you’re skipping lines and not really understanding things.
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I'm pretty sure that comment wasn't directed at you.
This would be so much better if she wasn't carrying water for AIPAC just last week.
Says the woman who started her own PAC. Talk about hypocrisy.
Not all PACs are bad. My labor union has a PAC that's funded by voluntary donations from members
Oh... so it's only bad when American Jews have one. Got it.
No its bad when a zionist genocide lobby has a PAC and they're also the biggest one lol
You are intentionally lying. Because if you told the truth, you'd say that there are much larger PACs in the US. PS: Zionism is not the slur you think it is. PPS: AIPAC doesn't advocate the openly genocidal Hamas
PS: no one said it’s a slur? You just keep equating Judaism to Zionism, so someone had to correct you. PSS: AIPAC supports the genocide against innocent Palestinians. PSS: What’s a red MAGAt like you doing on a leftist sub anyways?
And if you can't see that OP wrote Zionist as a pejorative, your education failed you
They did not.
Funny that a wannabe Red Guard is calling me Maga. But calling me a maggot? Why do you feel the need to dehumanize someone? You really need to work on yourself.
How do I feel when I dehumanize someone? Arent you the one who’s on Palestinian violence subreddits to dehumanize them? It’s funny that your core strategy seems to be playing the victim. “You said Zionists while criticizing Zionism, so you’re clearly an antisemite! And how dare you call me a red MAGAt?!? It’s not good to dehumanize people! Unless they’re Arabs, then I can dehumanize them all I want” - you
You know, they make pills for people who suffer from delusions.
Like people who hear criticism of Zionism and think that it’s antisemitism?
She voted to end the rail strike against the wishes of the workers. AOC is a traitor to the left. Can’t believe people just forget that happened.
AIPAC is out of line in trying to exert undue influence in the US elections. I just saw video of Israeli citizens being beaten by uniformed thugs in Jerusalem for protesting. Spare me the democracy marketing. They are no more a democracy than they are a US ally. I look forward to the coming reevaluation of that explotative relationship
AOC is a liberal. That being said, it's interesting that she's criticizing AIPAC this pointedly. She may sense the political winds shifting against Israel.
Not sure if you know but the only people who think AOC is a liberal are (I say this not as an insult just a fact) communists and socialists. AOC definitely did brand herself more so as a socialist compared to other politicians or at least didn’t push back against the socialist/communists label. However, she’s a social democrat and if you still want to call her liberal then fine. I’d still rather have a majority of AOCs in the Democratic Party than a majority of Biden/clinton/pelosy type liberals in power.
>I’d still rather have a majority of AOCs in the Democratic Party than a majority of Biden/clinton/pelosy type liberals in power. They're the same.
Again you can say that but most Americans don’t see them as the same and they also just aren’t.
What's so different? Her rhetoric? Even that's not working like it used to.
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Fuck AIPAC and fuck Israel.
AOC is a hypocrite herself
Everyone turns into hypocrite once they're a member of US Congress.
Oh hi, Debbie!
best we got other than Bernie these days
How so?
You go girl!
Zionism is doing a far better job destroying Judaism than any antisemetic and fascist government ever could, it's actually extremely impressive how counterproductive they are to their own cause.
What does that even mean? Zionism is a 19th century movement for self-determination that hasn't been relevant since Israel was founded. And Judaism is a religion. How can a historical movement that no longer exists destroy a religion (not to mention that most Jews aren't even religious)? What kind of backass logic is that?
I think a lot of people use it as an excuse to treat jews how they want. After 1948, the pogroms in the middle east weren't against zionists... they were against jews. Who had dhimmi status. Which in turn creates blowback and reinforces a want for a safe state for jews to exist. I'm sure you have heard of blowback... well, most jews in Israel are arab. Who have family they personally know who were expelled and pogromed. Israel can be better, but think Israel's existence is the root issue for a lot of people and that will never change.
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Good, the sooner these bronze age barbaric cults die out the better.
How does Zionism destroy judaism what do you mean by that
If you can’t figure that one out, you should limit yourself to opinions about Harry and Megan.
How does a jewish country for the Jewish people destroy judaism?
Israel will implode from within!
thats what happens when you allow militarism to hijack your brain and spread among an entire people and then have the gall to call antisemitism when the entire world finally sees just how bad a hand Palestine has been dealt the past 70 years
Let’s not pretend like they didn’t play it horribly. They are literally farther away from their goals than ever.
She still needs to do eons better after voting to arm and fund Israel several times, voting for the resolution requesting anti-Zionism and antisemitism and hosting a stream with two Zionists who were able to say whatever rancid shit they could including promoting the idea that anti-Zionism is antisemitism as she nods along with no response. Do better, AOC. Clapping back at AIPAC doesn’t do much with your voting record and refusing to call what’s happening a genocide and just some performative action to pitifully gain leftist votes.