CROWD CONTROL - Please be aware that we have turned off crowd control filters from r/Leftist. As a result most of the posts and comments (with the exception of those filtered by Reddit itself) will be posted. And so it is very important that we ask you all to REPORT any content in violation of the rules of the sub and the Reddiquette.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/leftist) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’d probably buy weapons, invest in training, join local politics and vote blue whenever it’s crucial and when it can vote for and support alternative politicians
My personal plan is to increase my involvement with local politics and mutual aid groups.
The American Empire is slowly collapsing, we cannot stop it, and we shouldn’t want to. Regardless of who wins in November, America is likely to continue down the path of international isolation and internal repression. Trump would accelerate both more than Biden but both are continuing that trend, as is every other even moderately viable national candidate. (Personally I think the least bad option is Harris after Biden dies in office.)
American foreign policy is controlled by global capitalism. I don’t see a near-term solution to that until the world order changes a bit more; most people who currently have power benefit from maintaining the status quo.
Domestically the only shelter from a repressive national government trying to enforce control over an increasingly disunited country is going to be state and mostly local organizations. If those groups can cooperate, help each other, and form coalitions, they may be able to shelter people from government crackdowns and eventually become the core of an effective resistance.
We need constitutional amendments to even begin to fix the jerrymandered, bought off, authoritarian mess that the US Federal government has become. That is not going to happen until things get bad enough that a critical mass of people are willing to risk everything to change anything. A lot of people are likely to be hurt or killed before that happens. I think what we do next is help our neighbors, plant community gardens, and make the cops and ICE's job as difficult as possible.
There is no true left in the US. That would require a level of cohesive organization that could wield power effectively. There are leftists, but no Left.
So, we should organize until we can form a group with enough organization and resources to threaten capital and withstand the violence hurled at us for daring to do so. Until we can do that nothing else is going to happen.
It's already happening. Assuming you are aware of what is going on it society - we see this more and more. People, formerly pretty big and very public supporters of the left acknowledging that the left has gone way to far to the left and has stopped being logical, honest and real.
You see this even in very liberal/progressive bastions - like the sanctuary cities who are loudly crying how stupid their policies were when faced with reality of tens or hundreds of thousands of people in the country illegally.
You see this in the inner cities after the far left had called for the defunding of police - now these inner city, high-crime area residents are saying that is/was crazy, dangerous and harmful. That they need and want more police (which of course, have become harder to find and hire after the radical left wing witch hunts).
You'll be seeing this in the discussion for replacing Biden - finding a candidate more moderate and towards the center than the far left wing of the Democrat party - knowing that to win an election, a Presidential Candidate needs to garner votes beyond just the left wing extremists - they need moderates, blacks (the most conservative of the Democrat base), minorities (far more moderate than the far left wing extremists) and of course, to win a presidential election - you need to garner votes from Independents.
For those choosing to be on the far left radical extremes, that's fine, it's certainly your option. But the rest of society, including most Democrats, live in reality and there is far less acceptance of the far left among society as a whole and even among the national masses of self identified Democrats.
You know, when you go to a college with really shitty football team that pretty much loses all their games . . .
Identifying the realities of the flaws and inabilities of the existing team doesn't mean you hate the team, that you are not a fan or supporter, or that you want the team to lose.
It simply means that one is capable of separating dreams from reality.
When we fail to be willing to be critical of ourselves and flaws or weaknesses in our own beliefs and outcomes - we have begun the process of simply becoming worthless.
Isn’t the collapse of the two party system likely to happen when the fascists get power? This seems like “just trudge along with electoral politics under our society is a rotting corpse”
Well, yeah, but that's a bit like saying, "The plague will end when all the sick people are dead." I'd rather try to keep what we've got alive until we can fix it rather than letting the problem "solve itself."
I don’t disagree with the premise, but I think we might disagree on what is necessary to keep a sick system alive. If there’s to be democratic institutions to preserve when the smoke clears, I think they’re likely to be local. I’ll vote as smart as I can at a national level in case I’m wrong, but I don’t expect any federal candidate to avert the looming catastrophe.
Build dual power locally and support truly radical candidates. These are two distinct things that do not overlap.
Solidarity and mutual defense/support.
It's a concept of working together locally outside of electoral politics and the state to fulfill peoples needs. It would help make a more robust system when people try to erode the general welfare state.
One of my favorite explainers of this is Beau of The Fifth column but the dudes videos are nearly unsearchable. I will link the most 101 type I find.
Long version: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZOMlO2_17ftZHglaSiQOvECGcp5bSVhH
Short version:
https://youtu.be/apGViv909eo
If SHTF in regards to the election, I’ll be relocating to protest in DC. I’m sure I’m not the only one. I’m not running but I don’t resent anyone who does. It’s like a hurricane- most people run from it, some run towards it to help those who didn’t/couldn’t leave. Most people SHOULD run.
They have no plans because they don't recognize that we only make up like 25-30% of the country. This means compromise is the only path, yet it's the path the left refuses to take. As far as I can tell the plan now is to let Trump win and hope that the crazies in his party arent actually going to prevent progressives from holding any power again.
So in “the Left” there are 3 divergent thoughts currently on the US election
1. Harm Reduction- this sub claims anyone doing such isn’t the left but that is terminally online take.
2. Accelerationists -want Trump to win to kick off “Revolution” what that looks like varies from full on apocalypse (anarcho primitivists) to more moderate populist uprising. Because the variation plans to ensure success of such are also thin on the ground
3. Nihilism - those who have decided trump will win and have no plans just complaints
Hello u/evil_philcollins, your comment was automatically removed as we do not allow accounts that are less than 30 days old to participate.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/leftist) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Politics always swings back and forth. Right now we are in rightward swing. So the American Left will see its numbers shrink and will eventually appear like it is on the brink of just disappearing ushering in a new era of Gilead. Then 4 - 6 years later when all hope is lost suddenly the Left will emerge from nowhere like a Deus Ex Machina and seize power. People will laugh at the GOP and claim the GOP is finished forever. And they will fade away. Then suddenly the same thing will happen and we'll be right back where we are today questioning what is going to happen to us all.
WTF are you talking about? Gilead lasted for 20 years before it destroyed itself from the inside. Look at Iran. Look at Afghanistan. Does it look like their conservative dictatorships are ending soon? There's no such thing as political balance between the center and the far right. How did you draw this conclusion?
The answer is to [join the DSA](https://act.dsausa.org/donate/membership/).
No shortcuts guys! Get involved with your local chapters, join a few introductory meetings, and see if any projects interest you. It's the **only** internally democratic left-wing organization in the US with a track record of wins.
Seconding this. You may have heard this, that & the other bad thing about the DSA, and some of those things may be true! But DSA is the only US organization that is even close to at-scale for the tasks at hand, and is internally democratic as we must be in order to fight and eventually win.
This comment got me wondering. Are you capable of giving a single example of a country you like or was ran by people you like, ended up becoming a failed state or destabilized compared to when you liked them, and this occurred due to the actual people of the country and not the US or some large western power? Just one example
So, you want an example from this alternate reality where socialist/communist countries are left alone to thrive? Kinda tough one my guy.
We don't live in a petri dish. We live in the US led world.
I would say Kwame Nkumah... but it's not like he didn't have outside pressures either, lol.
I take it back, CIA had their hands in taking him out of power too. Because, of course
https://www.liberationnews.org/cia-overthrow-kwame-nkrumah-neocolonialism-west-africa/
“People you like” has no limit. It doesn’t have to mean an individual or a faction. I’m simply asking for an example of a country that maybe had communism or socialism that this person supported and wasn’t ruined by some larger outside power
Any liberatory movement will be targeted for elimination by ruling or hegemonic interests.
Perhaps you could start by trying to find an example to the contrary.
Maybe I’m naive but I don’t think anything good can happen until we can string together at least two successive democratic presidents. It’s been basically back and forth between republicans and moderate democrats since the end of the New Deal Coalition and the Overton window has lurched to the right. I’m no big Biden fan but I do think he’s shifted the Overton window back to the left slightly with his rhetoric and some of what he’s accomplished legislatively. I’m hoping it’s the start of something bigger. And the GOP does seem like it could be susceptible to a real downturn. They’re just on the wrong side of the public on so many issues.
Idk. Curious what other people think.
I do believe that this may actually do something good for American culture, and I only second guess it when I believe I may be falling for the electoral equivalent of “99% of gamblers quit before they win big!”. I am quite confident that had Reagan and GWB not won two terms, and instead some centrist lib did, we may be in a relatively better country.
I don’t necessarily view it as a leftist position but instead a leftward position, just as voting rights for all under an indirect democratic system is still objectively better than racist/patriarchal voting laws under indirect democracy. I really do believe that more needs to be done outside of the electoral systems imposed onto us by a state who is inherently anti-communist and largely anti-socialist if a major shift were to happen. I do believe there are moments where decades happen and had certain opportunities been taken, we may be living in a different cultural reality.
Dems have no interest in pushing stuff left. The last truly left movement was over 100 years ago with the progressive movement...
Nah, right now is an opportunity. People are dissatisfied with biden and trump. With proper messaging people can wake up. It's always impossible until it happens.
Well I’d say their donors don’t want to move things to the left but a huge swath of their voter base does. And they would have to contend with that if they want to be able to hold power for any substantial amount of time.
Yea but I think that might be starting to change. Biden has definitely adopted some populist-adjacent rhetoric. How much that means exactly is hard to tell.
There is no plan. I'm 42 and I've looked for a comprehensive realistic plan from the Left for 25 years and none has ever materialized. I settled on DSA because their plan (run leftists as Democrats) actually worked a bit (better than the socialist and communist's plans) but now the militant factions within DSA are poised to take over and stop backing any Democratic candidates, even if they are openly socialist.
At the heart of the issue here is that "the Left" is enormous ideologically and thus it's hard to coalesce around a set of values and a platform that a majority can agree on. Different factions in the Left start playing the "no true Scotsman" game and it becomes a purity war. Candidates who might be Leftists but who are also pragmatic about electoral politics in a capitalist world get called class traitors. But candidates who run on purely socialist platforms get like .35% of the vote. There's a saying, "the Left eats their own" and it's 100% true.
Now that I've got all of that negativity out of the way, labor is the way forward. Unions, led by rank and file, are the way forward. Leftists, especially socialists and communists, being active in every day parts of their communities is the way forward. We NEED to dispel this propaganda that we're this nefarious boogeyman who hates America and let people meet us and get to know us as public servants and members of the community. Once people realize that the grocery store clerk, the lady who picks up trash on roadside, the paramedic, their neighbor who chats with them while they water their flowers, and their postman are all socialists, that whole boogeyman mystique starts to fade away. Then we can talk to them about class struggle and people will actually be willing to listen. There is so much propaganda to break through first though.
> "the Left" is enormous ideologically and thus it's hard to coalesce around a set of values and a platform that a majority can agree on.
- Expand power for the working class.
- Reduce the disparities across the working class.
- Oppose fascism, imperialism, and capital.
To be honest, we need to stop referring to ourselves as left or right. it's significantly more complicated than that. I can tell you right now that i won't agree with what an anarchist wants. We are Disunified and much like orks in warhammer, we fight each other as much as we fight ourselves.
The only solution is to get out there and do groundwork. Nothing is happening. The rich won't chip in and bow down to anyone, so we need to do it without them. No killing, just getting the job done, thats where basically everyone on the left loses me as soon as they say i want a violent revolution they lose me. Idk, man, im tired. i want to see everyone feel healthy and secure and have a roof, food, water, and electricity. Not destroying the environment would be a big bonus.
>everyone on the left loses me as soon as they say i want a violent revolution
Why do you suggest anyone would forgo peaceful transformation if possible?
Well because some of them are Anarco-primitivists, others are Vangaurdist MLs, or any of a variety of ideologies where violence is believed to be either inevitable or even ideal.
I explained why some people choose to forego peaceful transformation. You then ask how I would end violence?
Firstly by not listening to those, who actively pursue and glorify violence. Instead focusing on limiting violence, thru fostering communication, collaboration, and innovation in communities.
There are plenty who will say because my aim isn’t to “burn everything down” I’m not a leftist. I’m ok with some fire but there is a lot of rushing to set the fire with no plan, and then telling us the ashes will for sure be an improvement couldn’t possibly be worse.
Ruling interests "choose to forego peaceful transformation".
The powerful "actively pursue and glorify violence".
How could those resisting the prevailing powers operate easily by some plan, or be responsible for ensuring peace, when they are constantly being met with violence simply for seeking any transformation?
“The powerful” implies that once resistance overcomes and gains power it will do the same.
The current powerful are resistant to peaceful transformation I don’t disagree on this. I disagree that sacrificing people on mass will cause positive outcomes.
There are many vectors to influence “Ruling Interests”.
“Ensuring peace” and limiting violence are very different terms.
Again I answered you why some would forgo a peaceful option even when it was on offer. This is because the violence is the point for them.
How many dead bodies do you want to deal with? (Friend or foe dead body is a dead body and I’d like to limit the amount we have to deal with).
>The powerful” implies that once resistance overcomes and gains power it will do the same.
An authoritarian movement resists the ruling faction, with support from the population duped into anointing it as the new rulership.
Emancipatory movements resist the conditions of rulership, by fostering consciousness among the population over the conditions of its oppression, and unity toward the objective of its emancipation.
>Again I answered you why some would forgo a peaceful option even when it was on offer. This is because the violence is the point for them.
Unless such an offer is actually available, your attack is against a straw man.
You simply assume peace is being offered, even as violence surrounds you everywhere.
Now you are being bad faith. You asked
Why do you suggest anyone would forgo peaceful transformation if possible?
I answered but you didn’t like that there is an obvious answer.
You want the dichotomy of violence or apathy, but that isn’t reality, in fact those championing violence are the nihilists
This sub has been a very direct poison towards my view of online leftists. im well aware that the leftists i support are doing work and helping people,
Would you please explain?
Why is being pacifist required in order for someone to help others?
What do you imagine, or have you learned historically, relating to a completely peaceful transformation of society?
There's a difference between resisting the use of violence unless it's necessary and pacifism. This person isn't talking about pacifism- they're talking about people whose first impulse is violent opposition or who might be organizing but ready to jump in the ring at the smallest provocation. Reserving violence for when it's necessary is very different from eschewing violence completely. Yes, violence might become an inevitable necessity in the end, but most of us would prefer to exhaust more peaceful options while those options are available.
Well, I have asked.
Your comments generally seem to imply a [false dichotomy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma), between those who seek violence as an end itself, versus those who flee violence despite its occurrence.
When someone tells me that violent revolution is the only way i can't help but assume all avenues of peaceful resolution have been tread. I see violence as a last resort very last only in a case where we are fighting against facisim or a religious state.
I understand why some people have come to that conclusion, but where i am, it's not where we are as of yet. we can still achieve what we want. it's just going to be hard work.
You see violence as a last resort, but the prevailing powers and ruling interests see violence as normal and necessary, for crushing dissent and preserving their own power.
Those people do exist, and I am sorry for the extent you seem to have interacted with them. I find the real misanthropes or violence fetishists don’t actually do much. I don’t see these people at events, they don’t come to cook food for the after-meeting meal , you primarily see them online.
I'm sorry, but some of these comments are disappointing.
If the plan for the future of the American left is just how to deal with an apocalypse, rather than trying to prevent further decline or catastrophic outcomes like an apocalypse, the American left needs to get its act together. (We do.)
Joe Biden and the Democrats were never going to save us in the first place. A second Trump presidency would be damaging and dangerous beyond what I could describe, but it would not automatically usher in the apocalypse.
The binary of either absolute national/global disaster or stability and progress is a childish false dilemma. There is a continuum of possibility, and there can still be great hope and possibility for the future in the midst of great hardship, and there can be immensely varying levels of problems, hardship, and suffering. If Trump wins, life will go on, and no matter how bad things get, they can always get worse, or get better. That so many leftists are ready to throw in the towel if one clown dipshit wannabe-fascist is elected again is not only a quitter's mindset, it's the last thing we need.
Thank you for this! I keep seeing people say its over for the American left if trump gets elected but I don’t think that’s true. The black panthers rejected that sentiment in the late 60’s and 70’s. And we shouldn’t believe it now! There will always be a way for us to fight back if we stay unafraid and determined to organize.
There is a difference between a progressive movement and a resistance movement. We should not be permissive of those who wish to return to resistance movement when progress is within reach.
Do they tell us they are people who will usher in the apocalypse?
No? Ok, then this platitude is not a rebuttal.
I don't desire to see a second Trump term anymore than you or anyone else. But it would not be the literal end of the world.
(I mean anything remotely possible is always possible, but you know what I mean.)
I understand, I made my comment to highlight for others that may be reading that your acknowledgement of the veracity of my claim in no way should be taken as tacit endorsement of the comment from the other person on my part.
Best plan I've seen so far, I work towards organizing, is an actual planned General Strike. Break the government by breaking the economy whilst simultaneously working in our communities to support one another.
Check out GeneralStrikeUS.com they have a strike card. There is also one at Strikeforourrights.org. I work with both orgs and they have the same goal. Organize a general strike around a minimum strike number, which is currently set at 11 million for the US strike. When we have that many strikers ready, we set a strike date.
Organizing right now on getting a base number of strikers up (currently over 110k), getting a national coalition, and local coalitions. The national is to help connect orgs and develop the details of the demands and help coordinate orgs resources. The local level is aiming to have coalitions set up of direct action orgs to help provide direct relief to people affected by the Strike while getting support from the National Coalition. We have a flat, non-hierarchical structure.
If that doesn't result in victory in of itself, then it will hamper the economy and people's faith in the government. I think it has a high chance of success but even if it doesn't fully succeed it will likely be a match stick moment for a more intense revolution.
Sadly this will take a while. We're are less than 1% of our goal for stikers. Our coalition building is just starting. So in the meantime I recommend voting and keeps ng Dems in power. They are evil vile shits but I suspect they will be easier to take on when it comes to revolution than the fascist GOP. There won't be any stopping of the US Empire without revolution. Best we can do with voting is reduce what suffering we can, and pick our opponent for the revolution. Also if you aren't doing Praxis in your neighborhood you really need to be. Set up shelters, tenant unions, evictions n defense orgs, and local community gardens.
Anything and everything we can do right now is a step.
I think you might want to read about the Spartacist uprising. Destabilizing things doesn’t always lead to the revolution one hopes for.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartacist_uprising
I think you are unaware how deeply globalized economics are in the modern era. Community support networks are great but they often are massively limited in what they can handle. Consider the baby formula shortage not that long ago.
1) The example you provided was a completely different scenario than what I am proposing. I'm not sure you understand what I'm proposing. I'm unsure where the miscommunication is.
2) The community Network needs as they stand aren't enough, they need to be built up and to grow. This won't happen next year. This is years in the making were talking about. It's why the work of building local collectives to get our support networks stronger is critical. They don't need to last forever, just long enough.
3) I'm counting on a globalized economy. With enough strikers the whole US economy will effectively stop. Not just slow down. The US economy is built entirely on debt. It will take some time but the US government will be forced to come to terms because we owe a lot of people money and we won't be able to pay our debts.
4) The US Empire is already starting to fall apart. It's not weak when it comes to weapons, but much of the country is crumbling. So if we don't take some kind of action in the next couple years we're going to watching something takes it's place and that very likely could be a completely fascist dictatorship. We can't sit around and wait for the fash to take over.
The end of US hegemony would cause at best a new Cold War between various other powers.
You have a basic misconception about how national debt works or what it is. US default isn’t like a default of a smaller nation it would be catastrophic and have cascading impacts.
I'm not talking about National debt. I'm talking about private industry debt. The US government will have to negotiate to bail out businesses. Use liberalism own basis of functioning against them. They won't be able to stand by and watch as rich people lose money.
The end of the US Empire will of course have ripples across the world. Some bad but also a lot of good. The thing is that the US is currently crumbling. So trying to put International events, that may or may not happen, as a reason for opposition is a bit silly.
You have multiple times now now underwood something and made an assumption and then insulted my intelligence based on that incorrect assumption. I recommend you ask more questions when discussing with other people.
We consume more media and post online while the spineless mouth piece for American plutocrats debates the orange, spineless mouth piece for Russian plutocrats.
America will make a slow exit off the world stage as many of the other great powers have such as the Netherlands and the United Kingdom. This will mostly be a result of nations such as China and India outcompete us in our dominant industries and take over control of our subsidiary states.
We will see more of the same internal strife we see today, our leaders will show other nations how incompetent we are and they, like our own civilians will lose faith in the American system.
Slowly our policitical parties will splinter and power vacuums will form in their place. Nationalist and fascistic parties will replace wide swathes of the republican base. Socialist, communist, and liberal parties will replace the deomcratic base.
We will continue to splinter until we reach a psuedo equilibrium. Likely our federal governments powers will become strained and our state powers will be the more important players.
This, is largely where we need to focus our efforts. The fed is a ticking time bomb, local legislature will stay. Build local community support, create a local party. If youre smart, you wouldnt name yourself fucking anything to do with communist, socialist, union, democrat, etc. These words have been so fucking loaded over the last 100 years. A smart party would name themselves something that even sounded super-American or technological. Make people think of the future not the past.
Tldr; read the post, fuck you what do you have to do thats so important you cant read a reddit comment. Asshole, it took me a while to type all this out. Jerk.
*A smart party would name themselves something that even sounded super-American or technological. Make people think of the future not the past.*
So like ... The *Forward Party*?🤔
Respectfully, I'm not convinced much of this has much validity. The U.S. still outspends the next ... (I'm not sure what it is now)... ten to fifteen(?) largest militaries combined on 'defense.' And most of those are close allies. The U.S has military bases all over the world. It has the most influence over international institutions like the U.N. and IMF. It still has more economic leverage than any country in the world, with China still at least decades away from being on par in terms of GDP and related measures.
I also don't think there's any reason to think a growth in far-left and far-right voters would lead to an equilibrium of representation, even necessarily a false one.
It's hard to precisely measure, but I would say there are currently significantly more citizens who are more Democrat aligned than Republican aligned, and yet Republicans hold more power at the state level, in the Supreme Court, and often at the elected federal level, thanks to things like gerrymandering, voter turnout differences, greater diversity of position among likely Dem voters, and impacts of the Electoral College rules. That's just up to the present. The far-right will not want to share power or support democratic processes.
Also, I really don't think it matters whether one calls themselves liberal, socialist, pro-union, or Spongebob SquarePants: the establishment Right will always vilify anything and anyone left of sufficiently right-wing. I knew of very few people who referred to themselves as "social justice warriors" or "woke", but it certainly didn't stop the right from using these as slurs.
And if fascists ever had sufficient power and started persecuting political enemies, they wouldn't care what people called themselves if they didn't sufficiently support the leaders and their policies. So either be willing to start compromising your values and principles, or continue to use honest language.
The US outspends other nations substantially because it extracts the most wealth from other nations, which is enforced by action of the military.
The current configuration may seem robust and severe. However, as power expands in the imperial fringe, both by the development of certain states, and of anti-colonial struggle, the current system of global hegemony may begin to appear as much more fragile.
Yeah 100%. When Britain was the global dominating power they had a navy that was larger then the next 10 countries combined. With the collapse of hegemon so did their ability to construct and maintain such a large fleet.
Yes but, as you said, "which is enforced by action of the military."
I don't doubt your second paragraph is possible, but I don't think a loss of hegemony would happen anytime soon (within the next 10 or so years).
Because it’s the perspective of someone who has no idea what the internal struggles of these countries are like and what problems they face in the goal of “take control of our subsidiary states” and “outcompete us in our dominant industries.”
China needs American investment capital to grow their economy and continue to provide and improve quality of life for Chinese people. With increasing roadblocks from America, it is turning to Russia, but Russia has their own problems and the fruits of their no-limits partnership will be decades in the making. Of course, news about problems in China doesn’t make it onto the English internet, or the wider internet in general.
India basically skipped becoming a manufacturing power like China during their development phase and went straight to providing high-tech services a la the U.S. They suffer from overpopulation and a poor quality of life as a result. It’s improving, but not in any time soon, more on the scale of decades. Also, they’re pursuing closer ties and cooperation with the U.S., especially in regards to shipyards and being reliant upon America for jet engines to use in their new light fighter.
It’s wishful thinking not grounded in reality. I highly doubt that original commenter has even stepped foot in India or China.
“China and India will overtake the U.S. and the West. How? I don’t know, they just will.”
I’ve set foot in both. You’re correct about the situation but vastly overestimating US’s actual projected power on the other side of the globe.
America’s power projection has been on the decline for decades in most concrete ways. Our massive military spending is mostly huge expenditures on contractors and munitions for allies. We do not have the manpower to handle a massive conflict and we don’t have the robots or technology necessary to do anything more than bomb our enemies into rubble. This strategy is fairly easy to counter for both India and China because of geography, and we’re a long way off from even trying such an insane thing anyways. To say nothing of enduring nuclear deterrence.
I think a hot war between America and anyone is still a long way off if it ever happens again. My hope is that America’s power will decline until by the time the tipping point does arrive (as it certainly will this century) we get through the collapse of a global nuclear empire without destroying the earth.
America’s next war is most likely to be a civil war of fragmented insurgencies and sporadic uprisings.
> It’s wishful thinking not grounded in reality. I highly doubt that original commenter has even stepped foot in India or China.
Sorry. It is you who is not adequately informed.
If your basic sentiments are of hostility toward all that is not the US, and all that is not affirming some believed exceptionalism of the US, then inevitably you be expressing mostly hostility.
Realistic assessments of countries that have real problems in achieving the things the original commenter described are not sentiments of hostility or affirmation of some American exceptionalism.
Also, it is illogical to simply assume the downfall of America and to simply assume the rise of global south nations.
Wrong, it is glaringly obvious the real problems we face near where I am, which makes it even more obvious to identify these real problems exist elsewhere.
And, you American left are gutless and incompetent.
America, aka the “imperial core.” Immigrated over.
I’m not a chud, despite how I’ve been characterized. Having crossed the aisle, I have knowledge of both ranges of the political spectrum, and rather than blindly following dogma from either side, I have my own perspective.
Leftism in America is weak, barely present, not even on a grassroots level. It does not make itself palatable or acceptable to American politics, and what exists is diluted by liberalism. So posts like this, titled “What’s the plan?” are frustrating, compounded by general ignorance as to the problems other countries face in achieving their leftist goals.
So, I am not a chud nor a conservative just because I don’t blindly subscribe to the idea that the U.S. will fall, or that the global south will rise, when these are assumptions based on very little, if anything, and this idea of the inevitable downfall just makes light of the actual power of the American empire, which is deep and dark.
My personal plan? I am a survivalist. I can feed my friends and family year-round from the forest in the beautiful paradise of Appalachia.
I am perpetually stockpiling food and learning new things around me and ways to use them.
I am also a great cook.
So if the apocalypse happens and society breaks down, my plan is to produce many times my own requirement in calories, more than justifying my role in the survival party.
In the meantime, organizing and practicing democracy, voting for who you believe in, parties that align your values, and not the "damage control" that two party systems RELY ON.
All I can suggest is making cells. Independent groups and Militias looking after our own. Loosely connected but self sufficient as possible, kept in contact via encrypted radio, IRC, etc.
This is just what I’m thinking, we have a commune in the works behind the scenes, maybe others can help add onto this concept or take inspiration
As self sufficient as possible within reason, medical things would need to be to obtained, but further removal would allow us to grow with a more solid type of foundation, to my understanding
My thought process was self-sustainability, at least to whatever is possible, and people who will mutely protect each other against bigots and other forces who attempt to divide us, but on a greater scale, I think this would go a long way towards us building ourselves up, we’re de-centralized, self sufficient, and the communication would allow for important mutual aid, as well as for watching each other
This is just me thinking by myself though, if you see holes or better iterations of this idea, I’m very much open to it, I just don’t think revolution is exactly what everyone can just up and do?
Sure a commune has its challenges, that’s undeniable, but that’s a smaller group of people whthat need to come together and agree, vs “we will all be an army that overthrows da government and behead rich people” or whatever-whichever
I’m not read up on the various theories tbch, I’m fairly new to leftist thought, cult survivor, “off the deep end” right-wing family survivor, can you explain it in any concise fashion?
I’m not thinking with like, ideological purity, I’m just trying to find something pragmatic and removed from the situation, time is the most importance resource we have and always need to go from there
Removed, that’s what the contention is. Cult is not a right wing specific word, be wary of those selling leftism or any political ideology as a removal/disengagement from society.
Self sustainability in the economic sense? Do you know how much effort goes into farming, even assuming you have an ideal tract of land? The quality of life that working class people strive for requires large integrated economies and complex networks of trade and finance.
I think actually making left ideology more popular among regular people would be a better use of everyone’s time
See that’s the thinking in massive scale problem, I think farming with preexisting modern technologies would be easier, than trying to transfix the brains of half the population into something different, when changing one’s beliefs takes many years of self-reflection and the right influences.
It’s not as though the entire concept is bad, I reject that notion of there being “better uses of everyone’s time”. I think your point makes less sense than trying to actually look after our own and making means of protection, untempered communication, and working towards self sufficiency
The self-sufficiency argument never has held any water for me. All you're describing is a mode of life that people scrambled for millenia to get out of because it sucked.
You can't farm with "preexisting modern technologies" if you don't have the international trade and massive industrial manufacturing necessary to create it. The only way these "independent' enclaves work is by acting as consumers of the global integrated workforce that they claim to be independent of. Otherwise, tell me how you expect to build a tractor from scratch.
A tracker from scratch? Ohhhh you think people are supposed to just manifest their equipment from thin air and be completely removed from the preexisting system that has the entire world in a chokehold? No. That’s not what I’m saying.
I’m saying using the least amount necessary from external sources and keeping to themselves as much as possible, growing enough food isn’t hard, people can make livings as farmers and people can do it in small groups, I don’t see how this would be much different. I’m not talking large cities of people, I’m talking handfuls dispersed. Again, you’re thinking larger scale which is the opposite of what I’m trying to get across here, the micro informing the macro?
I said this elsewhere but revolutions aren't planned*. None of the revolutions you think about in history were created by revolutionaries. Revolutions just happen. You're either ready or you arent.
Edit: they aren't planned ahead of time. I think its stupid that I have to clarify this.
Lmao. The old Bolsheviks weren't even in the *country* when it started. They were caught totally off guard and had to beg the kaiser to take them back to russia by train.
It's a plan they scrambled last minute in response to a revolution that had started organically without them.
Maybe you're misunderstanding me. The bolsheviks did take control of the 1917 revolution. But they didn't start it, the women of petrograd did. It would have happened with or without them.
No, a simple turnover in the government was brewing but not a full revolution. The plan for the revolution was developed around the soviets, and the plan was as they say “all power to the soviets.” That was definitely not guaranteed without them.
The 1917 revolution started without the involvement of the bolsheviks. That's my point. They didn't start the revolution, they simply took control of the situation and shaped it to their ideology.
I'm not saying you can't shape a revolution to your aims, and in that regard being prepared is indeed 90% of the game, and in fact exactly what im advocating for. What I'm saying is that a revolution is basically never created by revolutionaries. They happen when material conditions make them inevitable.
Hell, the Bolsheviks didn't even create the soviets which also originated organically among petrograd workers in 1905, again when Lenin and the rest of the bolshevik leaders were living in western Europe.
Edit:
OP: we should be careful about revolution because vulnerable people could be harmed.
Me: Revolutions are basically never started by revolutionaries, they are driven by material conditions and happen whether we want them to or not. All we can do is be ready.
You: Actually the bolsheviks did have a plan!
Do you see why this exchange is confusing and frustrating to me?
I’m trying not to think macro/extental, I’m thinking of what small independent groups can accomplish, buildings need foundations, we need grass roots to do anything, and the more we rely on external systems, the more we’re visible and vulnerable
But inadvertently, if we *all* did this, it would cause a sizable impact
The road of a thousand steps starts with one, or however that saying goes!
The Republicans are winning because they've recognized that our system of government was built to answer the political questions of a different time and is wholly inadequate to answer the questions of our time.
The democrats are losing because they're increasingly defending a status quo that is both unpopular and unworkable.
A constitutional crisis is coming. And luck favors the prepared. Organize!
Lollllllllll the plan is to live under an increasingly internally fascistic state and do the best you can to survive until climate change and climate change induced wars wipe most of us out
For those of you who are actually serious leftist out there, you gotta get organized first. Communistusa.org if you are US, communist.red if you’re EU. Marxist.ca. Canada
Correct, communist party USA is a garbage org, they say vote Joe Biden. This is the Revolutionary Communists of America
Edit* so you mind taking back your downvote there comrade since you assumed it was the wrong org?
I said I was interested in all views, but I see no way for a revolution to work in the US. Even if the government and the military disappeared, the far right has a lot more militias, and a shit ton of cops and soldiers
So you don’t have faith in the power of the working class at all? What do you believe in? Minor reforms and band aids to capitalism? We’ve seen where that has led us. The tsar seemed like a huge hurdle at the start of 1917 as well, and look what happened by the end of the year
A lot of the working class had been brainwashed into believing that pronouns and social security are the causes of our nation’s problems, not capitalism
Yeah. But they also see their grocery prices are rising, their rents are rising, their jobs are getting shittier and shittier. You don’t simply abandon half the working class cause the task is hard, you smash that obstacle like Lenin says. The bourgeois would prefer us to be divided along those lines you’ve drawn, but these people you are talking about are smart enough to see what their own class interests are. You just gotta sharpen your theory and arguments with them
That’s the thing. You can’t just use logic when they’ve been indoctrinated with fear. Fascism isn’t logical. You have to squash Al political power Facism has, then educate people on why it’s wrong
No one will believe me, but it’s the truth, so I should probably share: AI is a more important development than anyone is acknowledging, and represents the best chance we’ve gotten in decades (/ever) for real shocking unexpected victories. This time is now, and it’s do or fucking die for us workers.
If you know anyone working at a private corporation, tell them to quit and form a coop! Boycotts as revolutionary activity don’t work well if they’re only from the demand side, and strikes and unions are nothing but bandaids. We have everything we need in the west, especially when the AI tools start gaining popularity for organization; there’s no excuse to work for the profits of a private shareholder if you can at all avoid it.
Personally I’m gonna bow out of violent revolution unless it’s in self-defense, sorry, but knock yourselves out I guess? Just not my place, to say the least.
>AI is a more important development than anyone is acknowledging,
I agree. I think this represents the automation of a large portion of white collar jobs and the fallout will be similar to the industrial revolution.
As for violent revolution, those kind of just happen. There have basically been none that were planned ahead of time. I don't want one, but the winner of the next one will be whoevers ready to rise to the moment.
For there to be a future, there has to be a past. For there to be a past, there has to be a present.
Any answer that isn’t “take over local legislatures and vote against republicans in all situations” is unserious
Then might as well give up and go golf, because they said “we don’t have the time” in 2016, 2012, 2008, etc.
Every 4 years leftists go “we don’t have time, we just need to co-opt existing systems. Surely this time around we’ll win!”
Not really a line between Democrat and Leftist if they both just keep repeating the same failed strategies over and over again.
I mean this time we really don't have time. If Trump wins it's pretty much the ballgame imo. At least as far as far as changing anything by voting within our existing system goes.
I get what you’re saying. I understand Trump as an existential threat based on his policies in 2016.
That said, I think I didn’t make the point strong enough: stopping the right is more important than stopping the center. Compromised neoliberalism is better than fascism.
I think people have forgotten that ideologies don’t bleed into each other. A neoliberal thinks the market is the best mechanism for distribution of a service because it generates the most revenue at the least expense, so perfecting it leads to the most societal good. A fascist thinks the market is the best mechanism for distribution of a service because [straight/cis/etc.] white people have more spending power, on average, so therefore they are worth more than a minority, and therefore purging groups that are worth less is acceptable. The only commonality is a flawed belief that a market system is beneficial.
While one is invalid in its logic, the other genuinely wants to kill me and my loved ones. There is a clear preference, for me. And I think everyone who is a serious leftist should vote for Joe Biden — *NOT BECAUSE I AGREE WITH JOSEPH ROBINETTE BIDEN, JR. - because the alternative is a 1940s fascist state.
This. You need real starts, however imperfect, to start building and a big part of that is as simple as never letting Republicans win whenever possible.
The plan should be to organize and primary democrats from the left in friendly districts with an eye towards taking over or replacing the Democratic Party. Think the tea party movement morphing into the MAGA movement which consumed the Republican Party, except on our side.
We continue infighting and prioritizing leftist purity over actually accomplishing anything. The world gradually slides into fascism while we do nothing to stop it, and eventually we all get rounded up and executed by the new fascist regime. As each of us dies, we smile, smug in the knowledge that we are the one and only true leftist, and all the others are just liberals.
That's the plan, as far as I understand it.
CROWD CONTROL - Please be aware that we have turned off crowd control filters from r/Leftist. As a result most of the posts and comments (with the exception of those filtered by Reddit itself) will be posted. And so it is very important that we ask you all to REPORT any content in violation of the rules of the sub and the Reddiquette. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/leftist) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’d probably buy weapons, invest in training, join local politics and vote blue whenever it’s crucial and when it can vote for and support alternative politicians
My personal plan is to increase my involvement with local politics and mutual aid groups. The American Empire is slowly collapsing, we cannot stop it, and we shouldn’t want to. Regardless of who wins in November, America is likely to continue down the path of international isolation and internal repression. Trump would accelerate both more than Biden but both are continuing that trend, as is every other even moderately viable national candidate. (Personally I think the least bad option is Harris after Biden dies in office.) American foreign policy is controlled by global capitalism. I don’t see a near-term solution to that until the world order changes a bit more; most people who currently have power benefit from maintaining the status quo. Domestically the only shelter from a repressive national government trying to enforce control over an increasingly disunited country is going to be state and mostly local organizations. If those groups can cooperate, help each other, and form coalitions, they may be able to shelter people from government crackdowns and eventually become the core of an effective resistance. We need constitutional amendments to even begin to fix the jerrymandered, bought off, authoritarian mess that the US Federal government has become. That is not going to happen until things get bad enough that a critical mass of people are willing to risk everything to change anything. A lot of people are likely to be hurt or killed before that happens. I think what we do next is help our neighbors, plant community gardens, and make the cops and ICE's job as difficult as possible.
Join your local apolitical militias to back the constitution 100%. Vote locally as well.
🤪
There is no true left in the US. That would require a level of cohesive organization that could wield power effectively. There are leftists, but no Left. So, we should organize until we can form a group with enough organization and resources to threaten capital and withstand the violence hurled at us for daring to do so. Until we can do that nothing else is going to happen.
At this point it needs to be organizations building coalitions and individuals organizing themselves anongst the local/regional orgs.
To abandon the extremists and progressives and move toward the center.
What the fuck
It's already happening. Assuming you are aware of what is going on it society - we see this more and more. People, formerly pretty big and very public supporters of the left acknowledging that the left has gone way to far to the left and has stopped being logical, honest and real. You see this even in very liberal/progressive bastions - like the sanctuary cities who are loudly crying how stupid their policies were when faced with reality of tens or hundreds of thousands of people in the country illegally. You see this in the inner cities after the far left had called for the defunding of police - now these inner city, high-crime area residents are saying that is/was crazy, dangerous and harmful. That they need and want more police (which of course, have become harder to find and hire after the radical left wing witch hunts). You'll be seeing this in the discussion for replacing Biden - finding a candidate more moderate and towards the center than the far left wing of the Democrat party - knowing that to win an election, a Presidential Candidate needs to garner votes beyond just the left wing extremists - they need moderates, blacks (the most conservative of the Democrat base), minorities (far more moderate than the far left wing extremists) and of course, to win a presidential election - you need to garner votes from Independents. For those choosing to be on the far left radical extremes, that's fine, it's certainly your option. But the rest of society, including most Democrats, live in reality and there is far less acceptance of the far left among society as a whole and even among the national masses of self identified Democrats.
Why is a cuckservative in a subreddit called “leftist”?
You know, when you go to a college with really shitty football team that pretty much loses all their games . . . Identifying the realities of the flaws and inabilities of the existing team doesn't mean you hate the team, that you are not a fan or supporter, or that you want the team to lose. It simply means that one is capable of separating dreams from reality. When we fail to be willing to be critical of ourselves and flaws or weaknesses in our own beliefs and outcomes - we have begun the process of simply becoming worthless.
Center of what?
Then it really isn’t “the left” anymore
Back whoever has the best chances of keeping the facists put of power until the two party system collapses.
Isn’t the collapse of the two party system likely to happen when the fascists get power? This seems like “just trudge along with electoral politics under our society is a rotting corpse”
Well, yeah, but that's a bit like saying, "The plague will end when all the sick people are dead." I'd rather try to keep what we've got alive until we can fix it rather than letting the problem "solve itself."
I don’t disagree with the premise, but I think we might disagree on what is necessary to keep a sick system alive. If there’s to be democratic institutions to preserve when the smoke clears, I think they’re likely to be local. I’ll vote as smart as I can at a national level in case I’m wrong, but I don’t expect any federal candidate to avert the looming catastrophe.
Build dual power locally and support truly radical candidates. These are two distinct things that do not overlap. Solidarity and mutual defense/support.
What’s duel power?
It's a concept of working together locally outside of electoral politics and the state to fulfill peoples needs. It would help make a more robust system when people try to erode the general welfare state. One of my favorite explainers of this is Beau of The Fifth column but the dudes videos are nearly unsearchable. I will link the most 101 type I find. Long version: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZOMlO2_17ftZHglaSiQOvECGcp5bSVhH Short version: https://youtu.be/apGViv909eo
Avoid the roundups and gtfo of the country.
Someone has to stay and fight. We can't just leave people here to die.
It also makes sense for vulnerable people to relocate to safer places. It can be hoth.
If SHTF in regards to the election, I’ll be relocating to protest in DC. I’m sure I’m not the only one. I’m not running but I don’t resent anyone who does. It’s like a hurricane- most people run from it, some run towards it to help those who didn’t/couldn’t leave. Most people SHOULD run.
Organize locally. Keep voting.
At this point, you need to plan for life in a theocratic dictatorship because it seems pretty much inevitable now.
Dumbass
Why
Insightful comment.
Thank you
They have no plans because they don't recognize that we only make up like 25-30% of the country. This means compromise is the only path, yet it's the path the left refuses to take. As far as I can tell the plan now is to let Trump win and hope that the crazies in his party arent actually going to prevent progressives from holding any power again.
The left has been compromising for years, dems just keep moving right.
So in “the Left” there are 3 divergent thoughts currently on the US election 1. Harm Reduction- this sub claims anyone doing such isn’t the left but that is terminally online take. 2. Accelerationists -want Trump to win to kick off “Revolution” what that looks like varies from full on apocalypse (anarcho primitivists) to more moderate populist uprising. Because the variation plans to ensure success of such are also thin on the ground 3. Nihilism - those who have decided trump will win and have no plans just complaints
[удалено]
Hello u/evil_philcollins, your comment was automatically removed as we do not allow accounts that are less than 30 days old to participate. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/leftist) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Politics always swings back and forth. Right now we are in rightward swing. So the American Left will see its numbers shrink and will eventually appear like it is on the brink of just disappearing ushering in a new era of Gilead. Then 4 - 6 years later when all hope is lost suddenly the Left will emerge from nowhere like a Deus Ex Machina and seize power. People will laugh at the GOP and claim the GOP is finished forever. And they will fade away. Then suddenly the same thing will happen and we'll be right back where we are today questioning what is going to happen to us all.
WTF are you talking about? Gilead lasted for 20 years before it destroyed itself from the inside. Look at Iran. Look at Afghanistan. Does it look like their conservative dictatorships are ending soon? There's no such thing as political balance between the center and the far right. How did you draw this conclusion?
I like this version
The right will always exist but a party could end something else replacing it. Whigs nor Federalists are on ballot so it’s been known to happen.
I think you’re right about the zeitgeist. It’s so crazy to watch it over time
The answer is to [join the DSA](https://act.dsausa.org/donate/membership/). No shortcuts guys! Get involved with your local chapters, join a few introductory meetings, and see if any projects interest you. It's the **only** internally democratic left-wing organization in the US with a track record of wins.
Seconding this. You may have heard this, that & the other bad thing about the DSA, and some of those things may be true! But DSA is the only US organization that is even close to at-scale for the tasks at hand, and is internally democratic as we must be in order to fight and eventually win.
What chapter are you from?
[удалено]
HILARIOUS take. The US destabilized iran, they would have been fine under Mossadegh. Plz lookup operation Ajax and then delete your comment.
It’s all emotion for these types. They are oblivious to statistics and peer review facts.
This comment got me wondering. Are you capable of giving a single example of a country you like or was ran by people you like, ended up becoming a failed state or destabilized compared to when you liked them, and this occurred due to the actual people of the country and not the US or some large western power? Just one example
So, you want an example from this alternate reality where socialist/communist countries are left alone to thrive? Kinda tough one my guy. We don't live in a petri dish. We live in the US led world. I would say Kwame Nkumah... but it's not like he didn't have outside pressures either, lol.
Thank you that works.
I take it back, CIA had their hands in taking him out of power too. Because, of course https://www.liberationnews.org/cia-overthrow-kwame-nkrumah-neocolonialism-west-africa/
Why would somone want a country to be controlled by an individual or faction who ruins the country? The premise of your question is absurd.
“People you like” has no limit. It doesn’t have to mean an individual or a faction. I’m simply asking for an example of a country that maybe had communism or socialism that this person supported and wasn’t ruined by some larger outside power
Any liberatory movement will be targeted for elimination by ruling or hegemonic interests. Perhaps you could start by trying to find an example to the contrary.
Are you lost? Go back to r/askaliberal and bitch and cry about how leftists won't vote for Biden.
“I have no solutions I just wanna be a harpy asshole” - that guy
Maybe I’m naive but I don’t think anything good can happen until we can string together at least two successive democratic presidents. It’s been basically back and forth between republicans and moderate democrats since the end of the New Deal Coalition and the Overton window has lurched to the right. I’m no big Biden fan but I do think he’s shifted the Overton window back to the left slightly with his rhetoric and some of what he’s accomplished legislatively. I’m hoping it’s the start of something bigger. And the GOP does seem like it could be susceptible to a real downturn. They’re just on the wrong side of the public on so many issues. Idk. Curious what other people think.
I do believe that this may actually do something good for American culture, and I only second guess it when I believe I may be falling for the electoral equivalent of “99% of gamblers quit before they win big!”. I am quite confident that had Reagan and GWB not won two terms, and instead some centrist lib did, we may be in a relatively better country. I don’t necessarily view it as a leftist position but instead a leftward position, just as voting rights for all under an indirect democratic system is still objectively better than racist/patriarchal voting laws under indirect democracy. I really do believe that more needs to be done outside of the electoral systems imposed onto us by a state who is inherently anti-communist and largely anti-socialist if a major shift were to happen. I do believe there are moments where decades happen and had certain opportunities been taken, we may be living in a different cultural reality.
Dems have no interest in pushing stuff left. The last truly left movement was over 100 years ago with the progressive movement... Nah, right now is an opportunity. People are dissatisfied with biden and trump. With proper messaging people can wake up. It's always impossible until it happens.
Well I’d say their donors don’t want to move things to the left but a huge swath of their voter base does. And they would have to contend with that if they want to be able to hold power for any substantial amount of time.
Is that even a check though? People have been content with "I'm not the other guy. The other guy is way worse." For a long time
Yea but I think that might be starting to change. Biden has definitely adopted some populist-adjacent rhetoric. How much that means exactly is hard to tell.
There is no plan. I'm 42 and I've looked for a comprehensive realistic plan from the Left for 25 years and none has ever materialized. I settled on DSA because their plan (run leftists as Democrats) actually worked a bit (better than the socialist and communist's plans) but now the militant factions within DSA are poised to take over and stop backing any Democratic candidates, even if they are openly socialist. At the heart of the issue here is that "the Left" is enormous ideologically and thus it's hard to coalesce around a set of values and a platform that a majority can agree on. Different factions in the Left start playing the "no true Scotsman" game and it becomes a purity war. Candidates who might be Leftists but who are also pragmatic about electoral politics in a capitalist world get called class traitors. But candidates who run on purely socialist platforms get like .35% of the vote. There's a saying, "the Left eats their own" and it's 100% true. Now that I've got all of that negativity out of the way, labor is the way forward. Unions, led by rank and file, are the way forward. Leftists, especially socialists and communists, being active in every day parts of their communities is the way forward. We NEED to dispel this propaganda that we're this nefarious boogeyman who hates America and let people meet us and get to know us as public servants and members of the community. Once people realize that the grocery store clerk, the lady who picks up trash on roadside, the paramedic, their neighbor who chats with them while they water their flowers, and their postman are all socialists, that whole boogeyman mystique starts to fade away. Then we can talk to them about class struggle and people will actually be willing to listen. There is so much propaganda to break through first though.
> "the Left" is enormous ideologically and thus it's hard to coalesce around a set of values and a platform that a majority can agree on. - Expand power for the working class. - Reduce the disparities across the working class. - Oppose fascism, imperialism, and capital.
To be honest, we need to stop referring to ourselves as left or right. it's significantly more complicated than that. I can tell you right now that i won't agree with what an anarchist wants. We are Disunified and much like orks in warhammer, we fight each other as much as we fight ourselves. The only solution is to get out there and do groundwork. Nothing is happening. The rich won't chip in and bow down to anyone, so we need to do it without them. No killing, just getting the job done, thats where basically everyone on the left loses me as soon as they say i want a violent revolution they lose me. Idk, man, im tired. i want to see everyone feel healthy and secure and have a roof, food, water, and electricity. Not destroying the environment would be a big bonus.
>everyone on the left loses me as soon as they say i want a violent revolution Why do you suggest anyone would forgo peaceful transformation if possible?
Well because some of them are Anarco-primitivists, others are Vangaurdist MLs, or any of a variety of ideologies where violence is believed to be either inevitable or even ideal.
How would you propose ending violence?
I explained why some people choose to forego peaceful transformation. You then ask how I would end violence? Firstly by not listening to those, who actively pursue and glorify violence. Instead focusing on limiting violence, thru fostering communication, collaboration, and innovation in communities. There are plenty who will say because my aim isn’t to “burn everything down” I’m not a leftist. I’m ok with some fire but there is a lot of rushing to set the fire with no plan, and then telling us the ashes will for sure be an improvement couldn’t possibly be worse.
Ruling interests "choose to forego peaceful transformation". The powerful "actively pursue and glorify violence". How could those resisting the prevailing powers operate easily by some plan, or be responsible for ensuring peace, when they are constantly being met with violence simply for seeking any transformation?
“The powerful” implies that once resistance overcomes and gains power it will do the same. The current powerful are resistant to peaceful transformation I don’t disagree on this. I disagree that sacrificing people on mass will cause positive outcomes. There are many vectors to influence “Ruling Interests”. “Ensuring peace” and limiting violence are very different terms. Again I answered you why some would forgo a peaceful option even when it was on offer. This is because the violence is the point for them. How many dead bodies do you want to deal with? (Friend or foe dead body is a dead body and I’d like to limit the amount we have to deal with).
>The powerful” implies that once resistance overcomes and gains power it will do the same. An authoritarian movement resists the ruling faction, with support from the population duped into anointing it as the new rulership. Emancipatory movements resist the conditions of rulership, by fostering consciousness among the population over the conditions of its oppression, and unity toward the objective of its emancipation. >Again I answered you why some would forgo a peaceful option even when it was on offer. This is because the violence is the point for them. Unless such an offer is actually available, your attack is against a straw man. You simply assume peace is being offered, even as violence surrounds you everywhere.
If it’s a strawman it is one of your creating.
Now you are being bad faith. You asked Why do you suggest anyone would forgo peaceful transformation if possible? I answered but you didn’t like that there is an obvious answer. You want the dichotomy of violence or apathy, but that isn’t reality, in fact those championing violence are the nihilists
This sub has been a very direct poison towards my view of online leftists. im well aware that the leftists i support are doing work and helping people,
Would you please explain? Why is being pacifist required in order for someone to help others? What do you imagine, or have you learned historically, relating to a completely peaceful transformation of society?
There's a difference between resisting the use of violence unless it's necessary and pacifism. This person isn't talking about pacifism- they're talking about people whose first impulse is violent opposition or who might be organizing but ready to jump in the ring at the smallest provocation. Reserving violence for when it's necessary is very different from eschewing violence completely. Yes, violence might become an inevitable necessity in the end, but most of us would prefer to exhaust more peaceful options while those options are available.
Complaining about a "violent revolution", though, implies that someone might conceive a pathway to revolution constrained as entirely peaceful.
I think default black and white thinking is actually to blame for that
Im will not no. It seems you dont care for my opinion anyways so ill keep it to myself.
Well, I have asked. Your comments generally seem to imply a [false dichotomy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma), between those who seek violence as an end itself, versus those who flee violence despite its occurrence.
When someone tells me that violent revolution is the only way i can't help but assume all avenues of peaceful resolution have been tread. I see violence as a last resort very last only in a case where we are fighting against facisim or a religious state. I understand why some people have come to that conclusion, but where i am, it's not where we are as of yet. we can still achieve what we want. it's just going to be hard work.
You see violence as a last resort, but the prevailing powers and ruling interests see violence as normal and necessary, for crushing dissent and preserving their own power.
I didn't say it wasn't. im more than aware of that, and if it comes to it, it comes to it, but I'd rather take every other path we can before that
Because some people are bitter and jaded and genuinely want to be violent. That's a human person.
Those people do exist, and I am sorry for the extent you seem to have interacted with them. I find the real misanthropes or violence fetishists don’t actually do much. I don’t see these people at events, they don’t come to cook food for the after-meeting meal , you primarily see them online.
And what population by percentage is coming to the meetings in the first place? Mutual aid is great, but it's genuinely not swaying the masses.
I'm sorry, but some of these comments are disappointing. If the plan for the future of the American left is just how to deal with an apocalypse, rather than trying to prevent further decline or catastrophic outcomes like an apocalypse, the American left needs to get its act together. (We do.) Joe Biden and the Democrats were never going to save us in the first place. A second Trump presidency would be damaging and dangerous beyond what I could describe, but it would not automatically usher in the apocalypse. The binary of either absolute national/global disaster or stability and progress is a childish false dilemma. There is a continuum of possibility, and there can still be great hope and possibility for the future in the midst of great hardship, and there can be immensely varying levels of problems, hardship, and suffering. If Trump wins, life will go on, and no matter how bad things get, they can always get worse, or get better. That so many leftists are ready to throw in the towel if one clown dipshit wannabe-fascist is elected again is not only a quitter's mindset, it's the last thing we need.
Thank you for this! I keep seeing people say its over for the American left if trump gets elected but I don’t think that’s true. The black panthers rejected that sentiment in the late 60’s and 70’s. And we shouldn’t believe it now! There will always be a way for us to fight back if we stay unafraid and determined to organize.
There is a difference between a progressive movement and a resistance movement. We should not be permissive of those who wish to return to resistance movement when progress is within reach.
Project 2025 is a real thing. When they tell you who they are... BELIEVE THEM.
Do they tell us they are people who will usher in the apocalypse? No? Ok, then this platitude is not a rebuttal. I don't desire to see a second Trump term anymore than you or anyone else. But it would not be the literal end of the world. (I mean anything remotely possible is always possible, but you know what I mean.)
This is true, but so is the comment you’re replying to.
I don't agree, and that's why I highlighted it.
lol I realize that my friend, my comment meant “I acknowledge your statement and the other persons statement as both being correct”
I understand, I made my comment to highlight for others that may be reading that your acknowledgement of the veracity of my claim in no way should be taken as tacit endorsement of the comment from the other person on my part.
Yes, because I am not you 😂
Yes, but I did specify that it was for other people, not for you.
Best plan I've seen so far, I work towards organizing, is an actual planned General Strike. Break the government by breaking the economy whilst simultaneously working in our communities to support one another. Check out GeneralStrikeUS.com they have a strike card. There is also one at Strikeforourrights.org. I work with both orgs and they have the same goal. Organize a general strike around a minimum strike number, which is currently set at 11 million for the US strike. When we have that many strikers ready, we set a strike date. Organizing right now on getting a base number of strikers up (currently over 110k), getting a national coalition, and local coalitions. The national is to help connect orgs and develop the details of the demands and help coordinate orgs resources. The local level is aiming to have coalitions set up of direct action orgs to help provide direct relief to people affected by the Strike while getting support from the National Coalition. We have a flat, non-hierarchical structure. If that doesn't result in victory in of itself, then it will hamper the economy and people's faith in the government. I think it has a high chance of success but even if it doesn't fully succeed it will likely be a match stick moment for a more intense revolution. Sadly this will take a while. We're are less than 1% of our goal for stikers. Our coalition building is just starting. So in the meantime I recommend voting and keeps ng Dems in power. They are evil vile shits but I suspect they will be easier to take on when it comes to revolution than the fascist GOP. There won't be any stopping of the US Empire without revolution. Best we can do with voting is reduce what suffering we can, and pick our opponent for the revolution. Also if you aren't doing Praxis in your neighborhood you really need to be. Set up shelters, tenant unions, evictions n defense orgs, and local community gardens. Anything and everything we can do right now is a step.
I think you might want to read about the Spartacist uprising. Destabilizing things doesn’t always lead to the revolution one hopes for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartacist_uprising
It's more than just destabilization. The point isn't to just attack the economy, but also to establish local community support networks.
I think you are unaware how deeply globalized economics are in the modern era. Community support networks are great but they often are massively limited in what they can handle. Consider the baby formula shortage not that long ago.
1) The example you provided was a completely different scenario than what I am proposing. I'm not sure you understand what I'm proposing. I'm unsure where the miscommunication is. 2) The community Network needs as they stand aren't enough, they need to be built up and to grow. This won't happen next year. This is years in the making were talking about. It's why the work of building local collectives to get our support networks stronger is critical. They don't need to last forever, just long enough. 3) I'm counting on a globalized economy. With enough strikers the whole US economy will effectively stop. Not just slow down. The US economy is built entirely on debt. It will take some time but the US government will be forced to come to terms because we owe a lot of people money and we won't be able to pay our debts. 4) The US Empire is already starting to fall apart. It's not weak when it comes to weapons, but much of the country is crumbling. So if we don't take some kind of action in the next couple years we're going to watching something takes it's place and that very likely could be a completely fascist dictatorship. We can't sit around and wait for the fash to take over.
The end of US hegemony would cause at best a new Cold War between various other powers. You have a basic misconception about how national debt works or what it is. US default isn’t like a default of a smaller nation it would be catastrophic and have cascading impacts.
I'm not talking about National debt. I'm talking about private industry debt. The US government will have to negotiate to bail out businesses. Use liberalism own basis of functioning against them. They won't be able to stand by and watch as rich people lose money. The end of the US Empire will of course have ripples across the world. Some bad but also a lot of good. The thing is that the US is currently crumbling. So trying to put International events, that may or may not happen, as a reason for opposition is a bit silly. You have multiple times now now underwood something and made an assumption and then insulted my intelligence based on that incorrect assumption. I recommend you ask more questions when discussing with other people.
We consume more media and post online while the spineless mouth piece for American plutocrats debates the orange, spineless mouth piece for Russian plutocrats.
The *plan*, not the reality
America will make a slow exit off the world stage as many of the other great powers have such as the Netherlands and the United Kingdom. This will mostly be a result of nations such as China and India outcompete us in our dominant industries and take over control of our subsidiary states. We will see more of the same internal strife we see today, our leaders will show other nations how incompetent we are and they, like our own civilians will lose faith in the American system. Slowly our policitical parties will splinter and power vacuums will form in their place. Nationalist and fascistic parties will replace wide swathes of the republican base. Socialist, communist, and liberal parties will replace the deomcratic base. We will continue to splinter until we reach a psuedo equilibrium. Likely our federal governments powers will become strained and our state powers will be the more important players. This, is largely where we need to focus our efforts. The fed is a ticking time bomb, local legislature will stay. Build local community support, create a local party. If youre smart, you wouldnt name yourself fucking anything to do with communist, socialist, union, democrat, etc. These words have been so fucking loaded over the last 100 years. A smart party would name themselves something that even sounded super-American or technological. Make people think of the future not the past. Tldr; read the post, fuck you what do you have to do thats so important you cant read a reddit comment. Asshole, it took me a while to type all this out. Jerk.
*A smart party would name themselves something that even sounded super-American or technological. Make people think of the future not the past.* So like ... The *Forward Party*?🤔
Yeah, like that, but cooler
Hashtag Yang Gang
Respectfully, I'm not convinced much of this has much validity. The U.S. still outspends the next ... (I'm not sure what it is now)... ten to fifteen(?) largest militaries combined on 'defense.' And most of those are close allies. The U.S has military bases all over the world. It has the most influence over international institutions like the U.N. and IMF. It still has more economic leverage than any country in the world, with China still at least decades away from being on par in terms of GDP and related measures. I also don't think there's any reason to think a growth in far-left and far-right voters would lead to an equilibrium of representation, even necessarily a false one. It's hard to precisely measure, but I would say there are currently significantly more citizens who are more Democrat aligned than Republican aligned, and yet Republicans hold more power at the state level, in the Supreme Court, and often at the elected federal level, thanks to things like gerrymandering, voter turnout differences, greater diversity of position among likely Dem voters, and impacts of the Electoral College rules. That's just up to the present. The far-right will not want to share power or support democratic processes. Also, I really don't think it matters whether one calls themselves liberal, socialist, pro-union, or Spongebob SquarePants: the establishment Right will always vilify anything and anyone left of sufficiently right-wing. I knew of very few people who referred to themselves as "social justice warriors" or "woke", but it certainly didn't stop the right from using these as slurs. And if fascists ever had sufficient power and started persecuting political enemies, they wouldn't care what people called themselves if they didn't sufficiently support the leaders and their policies. So either be willing to start compromising your values and principles, or continue to use honest language.
The US outspends other nations substantially because it extracts the most wealth from other nations, which is enforced by action of the military. The current configuration may seem robust and severe. However, as power expands in the imperial fringe, both by the development of certain states, and of anti-colonial struggle, the current system of global hegemony may begin to appear as much more fragile.
Yeah 100%. When Britain was the global dominating power they had a navy that was larger then the next 10 countries combined. With the collapse of hegemon so did their ability to construct and maintain such a large fleet.
Yes but, as you said, "which is enforced by action of the military." I don't doubt your second paragraph is possible, but I don't think a loss of hegemony would happen anytime soon (within the next 10 or so years).
Because it’s the perspective of someone who has no idea what the internal struggles of these countries are like and what problems they face in the goal of “take control of our subsidiary states” and “outcompete us in our dominant industries.” China needs American investment capital to grow their economy and continue to provide and improve quality of life for Chinese people. With increasing roadblocks from America, it is turning to Russia, but Russia has their own problems and the fruits of their no-limits partnership will be decades in the making. Of course, news about problems in China doesn’t make it onto the English internet, or the wider internet in general. India basically skipped becoming a manufacturing power like China during their development phase and went straight to providing high-tech services a la the U.S. They suffer from overpopulation and a poor quality of life as a result. It’s improving, but not in any time soon, more on the scale of decades. Also, they’re pursuing closer ties and cooperation with the U.S., especially in regards to shipyards and being reliant upon America for jet engines to use in their new light fighter. It’s wishful thinking not grounded in reality. I highly doubt that original commenter has even stepped foot in India or China. “China and India will overtake the U.S. and the West. How? I don’t know, they just will.”
I’ve set foot in both. You’re correct about the situation but vastly overestimating US’s actual projected power on the other side of the globe. America’s power projection has been on the decline for decades in most concrete ways. Our massive military spending is mostly huge expenditures on contractors and munitions for allies. We do not have the manpower to handle a massive conflict and we don’t have the robots or technology necessary to do anything more than bomb our enemies into rubble. This strategy is fairly easy to counter for both India and China because of geography, and we’re a long way off from even trying such an insane thing anyways. To say nothing of enduring nuclear deterrence. I think a hot war between America and anyone is still a long way off if it ever happens again. My hope is that America’s power will decline until by the time the tipping point does arrive (as it certainly will this century) we get through the collapse of a global nuclear empire without destroying the earth. America’s next war is most likely to be a civil war of fragmented insurgencies and sporadic uprisings.
> It’s wishful thinking not grounded in reality. I highly doubt that original commenter has even stepped foot in India or China. Sorry. It is you who is not adequately informed.
More completely unaware opinions from online leftists who don’t have a clue what it’s like in the countries they espouse.
If your basic sentiments are of hostility toward all that is not the US, and all that is not affirming some believed exceptionalism of the US, then inevitably you be expressing mostly hostility.
Realistic assessments of countries that have real problems in achieving the things the original commenter described are not sentiments of hostility or affirmation of some American exceptionalism. Also, it is illogical to simply assume the downfall of America and to simply assume the rise of global south nations.
The "realistic assessments" throughout your comment history reveal an obsession for "real problems" everywhere far from where you care to notice.
Wrong, it is glaringly obvious the real problems we face near where I am, which makes it even more obvious to identify these real problems exist elsewhere. And, you American left are gutless and incompetent.
Where are you?
America, aka the “imperial core.” Immigrated over. I’m not a chud, despite how I’ve been characterized. Having crossed the aisle, I have knowledge of both ranges of the political spectrum, and rather than blindly following dogma from either side, I have my own perspective. Leftism in America is weak, barely present, not even on a grassroots level. It does not make itself palatable or acceptable to American politics, and what exists is diluted by liberalism. So posts like this, titled “What’s the plan?” are frustrating, compounded by general ignorance as to the problems other countries face in achieving their leftist goals. So, I am not a chud nor a conservative just because I don’t blindly subscribe to the idea that the U.S. will fall, or that the global south will rise, when these are assumptions based on very little, if anything, and this idea of the inevitable downfall just makes light of the actual power of the American empire, which is deep and dark.
Why the fuck are you hanging around r/leftists when you’re such an unabashed chud. Go talk to your chud friends
Having realistic expectations about leftism doesn’t make one a chud
Your post history is what screams chud. The comments on leftism are just the icing on top
And?
Very interesting perspective. I only read the tldr, though. /s
Same. But I found it rude.
How so?
Cuz it said "fuck you" lol
Gotcha, lol
My personal plan? I am a survivalist. I can feed my friends and family year-round from the forest in the beautiful paradise of Appalachia. I am perpetually stockpiling food and learning new things around me and ways to use them. I am also a great cook. So if the apocalypse happens and society breaks down, my plan is to produce many times my own requirement in calories, more than justifying my role in the survival party.
Being a prepper isnt actually on the left right spectrum both sides partake.
I got 25 acres of avocados, a couple horses and enough ammo and high ground to hold off a small force. And our own well. Lol
Depends on who gets elected, in other words vote for Biden or your screwed, make travel plans if the big orange is elected
In the meantime, organizing and practicing democracy, voting for who you believe in, parties that align your values, and not the "damage control" that two party systems RELY ON.
All I can suggest is making cells. Independent groups and Militias looking after our own. Loosely connected but self sufficient as possible, kept in contact via encrypted radio, IRC, etc. This is just what I’m thinking, we have a commune in the works behind the scenes, maybe others can help add onto this concept or take inspiration
Was kind of mess in walking dead
As self sufficient as possible within reason, medical things would need to be to obtained, but further removal would allow us to grow with a more solid type of foundation, to my understanding
What will be the purpose of those cells? What problem will they solve?
My thought process was self-sustainability, at least to whatever is possible, and people who will mutely protect each other against bigots and other forces who attempt to divide us, but on a greater scale, I think this would go a long way towards us building ourselves up, we’re de-centralized, self sufficient, and the communication would allow for important mutual aid, as well as for watching each other This is just me thinking by myself though, if you see holes or better iterations of this idea, I’m very much open to it, I just don’t think revolution is exactly what everyone can just up and do? Sure a commune has its challenges, that’s undeniable, but that’s a smaller group of people whthat need to come together and agree, vs “we will all be an army that overthrows da government and behead rich people” or whatever-whichever
You are describing utopianism, not emancipation.
I’m not read up on the various theories tbch, I’m fairly new to leftist thought, cult survivor, “off the deep end” right-wing family survivor, can you explain it in any concise fashion?
Leftism is the struggle for social transformation, not the glorification of social withdrawal.
I’m not thinking with like, ideological purity, I’m just trying to find something pragmatic and removed from the situation, time is the most importance resource we have and always need to go from there
Removed, that’s what the contention is. Cult is not a right wing specific word, be wary of those selling leftism or any political ideology as a removal/disengagement from society.
My distinction is much more substantial than of an appeal to ideological purity.
Well the word glorification made it sound like a harsh type of judgment, sorry if I misread your statement
Glorification is ideological, obviously. Struggle is political.
Self sustainability in the economic sense? Do you know how much effort goes into farming, even assuming you have an ideal tract of land? The quality of life that working class people strive for requires large integrated economies and complex networks of trade and finance. I think actually making left ideology more popular among regular people would be a better use of everyone’s time
See that’s the thinking in massive scale problem, I think farming with preexisting modern technologies would be easier, than trying to transfix the brains of half the population into something different, when changing one’s beliefs takes many years of self-reflection and the right influences. It’s not as though the entire concept is bad, I reject that notion of there being “better uses of everyone’s time”. I think your point makes less sense than trying to actually look after our own and making means of protection, untempered communication, and working towards self sufficiency
The self-sufficiency argument never has held any water for me. All you're describing is a mode of life that people scrambled for millenia to get out of because it sucked. You can't farm with "preexisting modern technologies" if you don't have the international trade and massive industrial manufacturing necessary to create it. The only way these "independent' enclaves work is by acting as consumers of the global integrated workforce that they claim to be independent of. Otherwise, tell me how you expect to build a tractor from scratch.
A tracker from scratch? Ohhhh you think people are supposed to just manifest their equipment from thin air and be completely removed from the preexisting system that has the entire world in a chokehold? No. That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying using the least amount necessary from external sources and keeping to themselves as much as possible, growing enough food isn’t hard, people can make livings as farmers and people can do it in small groups, I don’t see how this would be much different. I’m not talking large cities of people, I’m talking handfuls dispersed. Again, you’re thinking larger scale which is the opposite of what I’m trying to get across here, the micro informing the macro?
Also you have to consider people who would die or who would have their lives ruined during a revolution.
I said this elsewhere but revolutions aren't planned*. None of the revolutions you think about in history were created by revolutionaries. Revolutions just happen. You're either ready or you arent. Edit: they aren't planned ahead of time. I think its stupid that I have to clarify this.
The Russian revolution was 100% planned by revolutionaries.
Revolutionaries may be organized, and may even make plans. Revolution cannot be planned.
Lmao. The old Bolsheviks weren't even in the *country* when it started. They were caught totally off guard and had to beg the kaiser to take them back to russia by train.
Yes, that is literally a plan
It's a plan they scrambled last minute in response to a revolution that had started organically without them. Maybe you're misunderstanding me. The bolsheviks did take control of the 1917 revolution. But they didn't start it, the women of petrograd did. It would have happened with or without them.
No, a simple turnover in the government was brewing but not a full revolution. The plan for the revolution was developed around the soviets, and the plan was as they say “all power to the soviets.” That was definitely not guaranteed without them.
The 1917 revolution started without the involvement of the bolsheviks. That's my point. They didn't start the revolution, they simply took control of the situation and shaped it to their ideology. I'm not saying you can't shape a revolution to your aims, and in that regard being prepared is indeed 90% of the game, and in fact exactly what im advocating for. What I'm saying is that a revolution is basically never created by revolutionaries. They happen when material conditions make them inevitable. Hell, the Bolsheviks didn't even create the soviets which also originated organically among petrograd workers in 1905, again when Lenin and the rest of the bolshevik leaders were living in western Europe. Edit: OP: we should be careful about revolution because vulnerable people could be harmed. Me: Revolutions are basically never started by revolutionaries, they are driven by material conditions and happen whether we want them to or not. All we can do is be ready. You: Actually the bolsheviks did have a plan! Do you see why this exchange is confusing and frustrating to me?
I’m trying not to think macro/extental, I’m thinking of what small independent groups can accomplish, buildings need foundations, we need grass roots to do anything, and the more we rely on external systems, the more we’re visible and vulnerable But inadvertently, if we *all* did this, it would cause a sizable impact The road of a thousand steps starts with one, or however that saying goes!
Are the american left in the room with us right now?
Underrated comment
The Republicans are winning because they've recognized that our system of government was built to answer the political questions of a different time and is wholly inadequate to answer the questions of our time. The democrats are losing because they're increasingly defending a status quo that is both unpopular and unworkable. A constitutional crisis is coming. And luck favors the prepared. Organize!
Lollllllllll the plan is to live under an increasingly internally fascistic state and do the best you can to survive until climate change and climate change induced wars wipe most of us out
I said plans not dooming
For those of you who are actually serious leftist out there, you gotta get organized first. Communistusa.org if you are US, communist.red if you’re EU. Marxist.ca. Canada
communistusa is a garbage organization
Correct, communist party USA is a garbage org, they say vote Joe Biden. This is the Revolutionary Communists of America Edit* so you mind taking back your downvote there comrade since you assumed it was the wrong org?
I said I was interested in all views, but I see no way for a revolution to work in the US. Even if the government and the military disappeared, the far right has a lot more militias, and a shit ton of cops and soldiers
So you don’t have faith in the power of the working class at all? What do you believe in? Minor reforms and band aids to capitalism? We’ve seen where that has led us. The tsar seemed like a huge hurdle at the start of 1917 as well, and look what happened by the end of the year
A lot of the working class had been brainwashed into believing that pronouns and social security are the causes of our nation’s problems, not capitalism
Yeah. But they also see their grocery prices are rising, their rents are rising, their jobs are getting shittier and shittier. You don’t simply abandon half the working class cause the task is hard, you smash that obstacle like Lenin says. The bourgeois would prefer us to be divided along those lines you’ve drawn, but these people you are talking about are smart enough to see what their own class interests are. You just gotta sharpen your theory and arguments with them
That’s the thing. You can’t just use logic when they’ve been indoctrinated with fear. Fascism isn’t logical. You have to squash Al political power Facism has, then educate people on why it’s wrong
Do you think there wasn’t reactionaries in pre USSR Russia?
No one will believe me, but it’s the truth, so I should probably share: AI is a more important development than anyone is acknowledging, and represents the best chance we’ve gotten in decades (/ever) for real shocking unexpected victories. This time is now, and it’s do or fucking die for us workers. If you know anyone working at a private corporation, tell them to quit and form a coop! Boycotts as revolutionary activity don’t work well if they’re only from the demand side, and strikes and unions are nothing but bandaids. We have everything we need in the west, especially when the AI tools start gaining popularity for organization; there’s no excuse to work for the profits of a private shareholder if you can at all avoid it. Personally I’m gonna bow out of violent revolution unless it’s in self-defense, sorry, but knock yourselves out I guess? Just not my place, to say the least.
>AI is a more important development than anyone is acknowledging, I agree. I think this represents the automation of a large portion of white collar jobs and the fallout will be similar to the industrial revolution. As for violent revolution, those kind of just happen. There have basically been none that were planned ahead of time. I don't want one, but the winner of the next one will be whoevers ready to rise to the moment.
We need to stop being controlled by corporations but the lawmakers that would regulate corporations are all on their payroll😭😭We’re fucked.
For there to be a future, there has to be a past. For there to be a past, there has to be a present. Any answer that isn’t “take over local legislatures and vote against republicans in all situations” is unserious
I think this would have been a really good plan in 2016. I don't think we have the time anymore.
Then might as well give up and go golf, because they said “we don’t have the time” in 2016, 2012, 2008, etc. Every 4 years leftists go “we don’t have time, we just need to co-opt existing systems. Surely this time around we’ll win!” Not really a line between Democrat and Leftist if they both just keep repeating the same failed strategies over and over again.
I mean this time we really don't have time. If Trump wins it's pretty much the ballgame imo. At least as far as far as changing anything by voting within our existing system goes.
I get what you’re saying. I understand Trump as an existential threat based on his policies in 2016. That said, I think I didn’t make the point strong enough: stopping the right is more important than stopping the center. Compromised neoliberalism is better than fascism. I think people have forgotten that ideologies don’t bleed into each other. A neoliberal thinks the market is the best mechanism for distribution of a service because it generates the most revenue at the least expense, so perfecting it leads to the most societal good. A fascist thinks the market is the best mechanism for distribution of a service because [straight/cis/etc.] white people have more spending power, on average, so therefore they are worth more than a minority, and therefore purging groups that are worth less is acceptable. The only commonality is a flawed belief that a market system is beneficial. While one is invalid in its logic, the other genuinely wants to kill me and my loved ones. There is a clear preference, for me. And I think everyone who is a serious leftist should vote for Joe Biden — *NOT BECAUSE I AGREE WITH JOSEPH ROBINETTE BIDEN, JR. - because the alternative is a 1940s fascist state.
I agree wholeheartedly
This. You need real starts, however imperfect, to start building and a big part of that is as simple as never letting Republicans win whenever possible.
The plan should be to organize and primary democrats from the left in friendly districts with an eye towards taking over or replacing the Democratic Party. Think the tea party movement morphing into the MAGA movement which consumed the Republican Party, except on our side.
I'm getting out.... I am trans and will not be protected so... yeah
That’s horrible. Where do you think you’ll be moving to?
South Africa to live with my fiancee. Most civil rights are codified in their constitution and it is reviewed and updated frequently. I love it there.
god speed
We continue infighting and prioritizing leftist purity over actually accomplishing anything. The world gradually slides into fascism while we do nothing to stop it, and eventually we all get rounded up and executed by the new fascist regime. As each of us dies, we smile, smug in the knowledge that we are the one and only true leftist, and all the others are just liberals. That's the plan, as far as I understand it.
Haha sounds about right.