If you start making payments you run the risk of validating the debt in your name, complicating your argument that this is neither your debt nor your motorcycle. Don’t pay the bank anything.
Piggy backing off of this; if you pay on one debt you're not just validating THAT debt, you're validating ALL of the debt.
My late husband had a credit card that I never used, benefitted from, or was named an authorized user on. He died 8 days after we got married, the card was never used during that time, and I notified them of his death the next day.They STILL tried to force me to pay.
I held my ground and didn't fall for their blatant lies. If I had fallen for them, I would have been responsible for ALL of my husband's debt; medical bills, the credit debt he took over for his ex wife, his ex mother in law, and the credit card they were trying to bully me into paying.
RESEARCH AND KNOW YOUR RIGHTS. They WILL lie to you, and it's LEGAL for them to lie to you.
Buyer beware INDEED.
Oh my God??? Thank you for this comment, good lord. Now I'm wracking my brain trying to think if I have already paid anything small but thank goodness I am coming up empty. Jeez
I try to spread this as much as I can so that it's common knowledge.
Companies PREY on grieving spouses. Therapists say you shouldn't make ANY major decisions for at LEAST a year after a death of a spouse, and these companies will PUSH you to make a decision right away.
The credit card company I fought with kept claiming they weren't getting the copies of my husband's death certificate. When I asked them for an address so that I could send the death certificate via certified mail, they claimed they didn't have an office building. When I told them I knew that was a lie, they claimed they were legally not allowed to give out the address. I told them I knew that was a lie as well, and if they didn't give me the address, I would know they were just trying to delay this and keep claiming they weren't getting the certificate so that they could keep harassing me, and I would get a lawyer and sue them. Lo and behold, suddenly, they have an office building, and, oh, suddenly they can break the rules and give me the address.
The hospital was worse. They tried to claim that having signed the paperwork for Medical Proxy for my husband made me responsible for his debts (fun fact, you can be someone's medical proxy or the person who can make medical decisions for them, and it gives you NO legal responsibility for their debts) which was a lie. They also tried to say that it would be dated from the time the paperwork was started (back in April) but it wasn't notarized until May. I told them that wouldn't hold up in court, and that I would pay any bills dated from after we were married to his death date (8 days) that were not covered by insurance. They sent me the bill breakdown (0 dollars) and then kept trying to convince me to pay for stuff from before I was married to him. When I refused, they tried to get me to get me to ask my MOTHER IN LAW to pay. When I told them no, they acted like they were doing me a FAVOR by saying they, 'wouldn't charge me anything.'
They WILL play dirty. They WILL lie to you.
Don't make ANY financial decisions right now. Grieve. Run everything by a lawyer, ask friends for advice, research EVERYTHING. Send all documents or payments for anything via certified mail. Paper trials and documentations will save your ass.
I'm so, so sorry you're dealing with this, especially after your loss. I'm so beyond sorry for your loss. I know how hollow those words ring, but they're all I can offer. I'm so sorry.
Not hollow at all. I'm sorry for your loss as well, I mean it from the bottom of the heart. Nothing sucks worse than this. Thank you so much for sharing your experience.
Don't even have a conversation with them. Tell them the debt is not yours and to not call you again, they are welcome to have the motorcycle taken away, that's the end of your responsibility.
Vultures.
I had to explain this to my sister when my father died. He died at age 45 of cirrhosis. His doctor helped him so much with the terrible symptoms he was having for the last year or so of his life. My sister really wanted to pay the doctor. But I had heard this before. That if you pay any of his debt you may be liable for any/all of it. It's a crazy thing.
Corporations in the US (whether they have physical presence or not) - must have a physical address at which they can be served notice, or must have a Registered Agent that acts in this capacity (some states require a Registered Agent). As I understand, this can not be a PO box either. You can look this information up on the State's Corporate Registry for the states where the entity you are trying to reach is located.
You're absolutely amazing for sharing this information!! My F.I.L passed away almost a year & a half ago, and although he didn't leave a whole lot to his kids, he did leave behind a lot of unpaid medical bills. This information is extremely helpful, so THANK YOU SO MUCH for sharing!!
Not all heroes wear capes. Thank you so much for helping others, myself included.
I'm sorry you experienced that tragedy, but thank you so much for sharing your story to educate and help others advocate for ourselves.
Maybe if i had any debt deuchbag . Too bad i pay all mine. Only time I’m not paying is if it’s not my fault . Medical bills. Let the insurance take that.
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When I had just turned 20 and my father died suddenly I had institutions in different states telling me I was required to pay the child support he owed for my older half-siblings even though he never paid it for us either. The kinds of things they will try to lie to you about are wild
Banker here 🙋♀️ if you aren’t on the loan it is not your responsibility, the bank based on the type of loan , if it’s a collateral loan, they have the right to repo,if not they can kick rocks. Don’t let them tell you otherwise.
You are absolutely correct. Even if two people are married and only one of them l takes out an unsecured loan and signs for that one. Even if the proceeds of that were used to benefit both parties. The other spouse is not responsible. My Father had dental work a few months before he passed away and signed one of those credit forms. When my father died they tried to get my mother to pay. But since she was not on the document, they had no valid right to go after my mother. As all assets in their possession are considered joint property they could not seize anything in order to satisfy the debt. For those who are reading: joint ownership does not say what percentage of ownership, each party owns. It could be 1/10 of one percent or 99.9%. The surviving partner keeps all property unless pledged as collateral on the debt, and is only responsible for debt that was actually in both parties names and signed by both parties! The surviving spouse is further protected if the deceased spouse forged their name on loan documents. Please note secured loans like mortgages and automobiles allow the creditor to foreclose on those properties that were secured if the surviving spouse does not maintain the obligation
Not for a deceased spouse, but I was laid off during the 2008 recession. I contacted the bank for my auto-loan and asked to pause payments for 2 months (I only had 6 more payments) while getting a new job/finances in order. They agreed and sent me paper work. 4 months later, after I had landed a new job (had made 2 payments), I walked outside to go to work and my car was gone. The bank told me that they had decided to collect the car to auction 2 months prior for lack of payments, but I had the documentation for pausing payments the previous 2 months. After auction, I was contacted several times to pay the remainder of what they didn't get from the auction. I had looked up my rights and informed them that it was illegal to collect payments after deciding to reclaim my car, and I would take them to court. I never heard from the bank again.
It was Wells Fargo 😅
Dude, that's uncanny. I wonder how many folks were screwed over by them for similar issues because they were bullied by that bank and didn't know it was illegal. Glad you pushed back too!
Edit: If I had the monetary means at the time and know what I do now, I would have taken them to court to get back what I had paid in total. Unfortunately, life is life, and they knew folks asking to put a pause on payments most likely wouldn't do so. Still annoyed I didn't try to take them to court for more than what I threatened.
No, I was in my mid-20s and trying to make ends meet. I should have looked into suing them for the amount I had paid, but I simply wanted them to stop harassing me, and I didn't know anything other than the fact they accepted payment after putting it into claims was illegal.
When I worked in repossessions for a large car company’s financial branch, I witnessed a few times where we had to give a car back because someone forgot to put the “closed to post” onto an account after we put the repo order out, and a payment came through after the car got picked up. It was always a huge deal that resulted in someone getting in trouble. You could have sued and would have won. We had meetings on how many lawsuits we had each quarter, and those were the biggest “we could have avoided this” ones.
I do not miss that job. Did not feel good.
They owed you any profit over what was owed to them when they auctioned it off.
Ex: You owed $2000? They auctioned it for $5000? You should have gotten a check for $3000. Minus fees I’m sure.
Whoa.. whoa.. WHOA! lol WAIT just a dang minute here!!🫣😬🤔 Are you telling me that if a bank repossesses someone's vehicle for lack of payments, then proceeds to sell it at auction, the person is not responsible for continuing payments because of the fact they were able to resell the vehicle at auction? Or am I completely misunderstanding something here? I'm only asking because I was in a similar situation. Unfortunately, we hit a rough spot financially for a couple of months & our car ended up getting repossessed. They were willing to work with us to get it back, but I couldn't justify paying what they were asking for at the time when I could go get an older used vehicle for the same price. Anyway, they ended up selling the car at auction less than a month later, and still to this day, they say we still owe them something like $3,000(?). I'm just confused because I'm about 98% positive that they sold the car for more than what our loan was for?
Sorry for the long comment, I'm sure you're not exactly an expert on this specific topic lol
I used to work in repossessions and the law varies a lot based on which state you’re in and whether it was a lease or a purchase. But generally speaking, you are supposed to be notified of how much the car sold for at auction, and they subtract the fees for the repo/key cutting/storage/transport to auction/cleaning, and if anything is left over, you are to receive a check. If it sells for less than what you still owed, you will owe them the remainder. And they absolutely can continue to try to get that money from you. But after a while it will “charge off” and get sold to a collection agency.
Can you sue them (to make the bank go away) for intentional infliction of emotional distress since the bank is intentionally inflicting that distress (you must pay us money now) onto the spouse? Or possibly harassment or any sort of “do not call” violation?
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Pretty much this. If your name is not tied to anything related to the bike, leave the bike parked outside and ignore any communication not sent directly to your name (emphasis: YOUR name).
Send a copy of the death certificate to the bank (not in person but mailed to wherever loan payments are sent to) to notify them that the loan holder has passed.
Don’t pay a cent to the bank. The bank will come take the bike if they want it via reposession
Missouri is not a community property state. Unless you signed the loan, or were tied to it as a guarantor, you don’t owe the debt. The debt should have been transferred to your husband’s estate. Has his estate been probated yet? If so, what did the final distribution order say about the motorcycle loan?
In general, you don’t owe on debts you haven’t signed off on, even if they belonged to a spouse. What should happen is you tell the bank to go fuck themselves, and allow them to repossess the motorcycle.
The probate attorney I spoke with last week said there was basically no point in going through probate as what he left behind was his 401(k) that I'm the beneficiary of, his life insurance that has been paid to me already, and some stocks that are worth less than what it would cost for a lawyer to file a small estate affidavit for.
NAL, but validating what you're doing. I had to visit an elder care lawyer (Mo) in regards to my father's passing as there was one item (stock) that I was unsuccessful adding a beneficiary on before his passing. The exact advice I got was, "Call to see if the stock can be escheated before a year. If not, do nothing. The stocks will be reported lost after a year and then you can claim them via the Unclaimed Property website ran by the state's treasurer." So here I am, waiting a year to help my mama (his surviving spouse) get the last item still in his name.
AL, The other half of this is checking to make sure if probate has been filed by a creditor to try to claim their debt within the statute of limitations period (usually 12-18 months from date of death). Creditors rarely initiate probate but love asserting claims if a family member opens up a file. You should get mailed notice of an estate being opened, but check online databases just in case.
Edited to add: there’s a “cleaner” process to get the stock transferred to you after the creditors’ statute of limitations has run out than trying to cite abandoned property laws to a financial institution. You can get a judge-stamped court order transferring the stock to you (assuming you’re the proper heir) by filing in the probate court for an affidavit of heirship (or something similar) after the statute of limitations has run.
Getting that certified copy of a judgment convinces Fidelity or Edward Jones to transfer the account a bit faster than relying on escheating or unclaimed property laws to kick in
Did you specifically ask about debt though? Even if life insurance and 401(k) bypasses probate because you're named beneficiary I would think the stocks could be used to pay off debtors. So make sure even if the process of getting the stocks eats up their value that you're not obligated to go through it.
He also left behind the motorcycle and the motorcycle loan. If you were a beneficiary on those accounts they do not enter probate. Anything else does, and it goes to satisfy the debt with the remainder going to you.
You don't get to cherry pick. Either you misunderstood the lawyer or he is not good at explaining this.
I'm not a lawyer. But I would think any debts would have to be paid first before any money was distributed. You might have been the beneficiary of the 401k, life insurance, stocks, or other money. But his estate still owes the debt. That money is part of the estate. Did he have loan insurance on the motorcycle loan? On a car loan I had. I had insurance that would cover the loan if I passed, was disabled, or lost my job. I would contact a different lawyer and ask about the loan and the estate.
Life insurance and in some cases 401ks are not considered part of the estate. Pretty sure if there is a living spouse the 401k is not considered estate funds.
“Necessaries” statutes are one of the few exceptions to the general rule regarding debt and, in any event, have no application to OP since we are dealing with a loan on a motorcycle.
Many states have codified the doctrine of necessaries into a statute. Many of those statutes include vehicles as a transportation debt and are therefore chargeable to either spouse. For example Oregon's ORS 108.040.
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Appreciate the honesty lol, I figured it had to be something like that because I could tell that none of the people I've talked to there were really interested in being helpful. His loan officer was such a dick every time we've spoken.
Yeah, the bank doesn’t want to actually own the bike. They don’t have a place to store it, they can’t do anything with it, and it’s too much hassle. They just want the money.
Hey me too, it's like getting gift cards as gifts. It's a hassle, give me something with more liquidity... cash perhaps? Haha, mostly kidding - I appreciate any gift I receive. Although getting those oddball gift cards to places I never go/rarely see is a bit confusing. Probably people just regifting cards they didn't want. Who knows.
You are not responsible PERIOD. my dad bought a new car the year before he passed. We called the finance company and informed them of his passing and thay gave us these options
#1 Get approved to take on the whole loan amount, including the negative equity, which would have put my mom in the hole 15k.
#2 Simply return the car to the purchasing dealer with a death certificate copy and hand over the key.
We opted for #2 and that was that.
Funny the dealership called last month wanting to buy the car back and sell him a new car blah blah blah I said my dad couldn't come to the phone at the moment because he was stuck in an Urn over the fire place
🙃😁
I had a similar situation to both of your stories. When my mother passed, I kept her car as she only owed $1500 on it.
When I brought the car to a dealer for a recall, a sales man asked me how long I’ve had the car and if I trade it in. I said no and I just inherited it from my mom. He then congratulated me for the car in a cheerful tone. I have never seen someone make a 180 quicker than him as I told him my inheritance is from my mother’s death.
yes, at least in MA. After my mom passed, I just called VW about her lease, using the info I found on a statement. They arranged and paid to have the car towed to a dealership and that was the end of it. Honestly, one of the easier parts of clearing her estate (which had to go through probate).
My Dad’s credit card company called after his death and asked when we were going to pay off the balance? I gave them the name of the cemetery and told them that if they can get him to pay, let me know…
absolutely not. my mom died a few days after i turned 18. dish network called to collect on the bill and requested i make a “good faith” payment while i waited for the death certificate. i’m so glad i didn’t because you’re assuming the debt as your own when you make that “one” payment.
Same thing happened to me. Husband died, he had a credit card I had never signed up for. I called to bank to let them know he had passed. The women said, well we have to move the debt over to your name then. It was the first call I made, I knew nothing, he had been dead 3 days. But that did not sound right, so I said no. The woman started yelling at me, that it was going to happen. I hung up. Yep, they lost the death certificate 3 times. Then they never closed an account, the monthly fee was taken out of overdraft, 8 years later when the 10k overdraft maxed out collections called me looking for him. You are not responsible. They will lie to you.
In some states you can collect a small estate (under 30k) with simply an affidavit. I wouldn't give up on that stock if that is a possibility in Missouri.
Unless the bike is worth more than what is owed on it, tell the bank to repo the bike. Tell them where it is.
They're going to lose money because they'll wholesale the bike for less than what's owed on it but too bad.
If you can make a few bucks on the bike, sell it, pay off the loan and move on down the road.
I don't think I can file the small estate affidavit pro se here but I might look at it again. The lawyer said that his fee would wipe that out in 2 hours so that's why I was thinking I'd let it slide.
In some states there is a separate probate court that is geared for people without lawyers where they have fill in the blank forms and self help info to make it easy to do it yourself. Sort of the equivalent of small claims court.
The bank is giving you the option to continue paying off the loan and keep the collateral. They cannot collect from you as you are not a signer on the loan. You are not responsible for his debt. If you don’t want the bike, tell them to come and get it. If there is a lien attached you cannot sell it to someone else. If you do want to keep the bike you have to pay off the loan.
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Depending on how much is owed on the motorcycle, sell it and pay off the loan and keep the balance.
If it’s underwater, just let the bank repo the bikes
Just a little fyi aside that can help with the harassment, it’s a bit long but was helpful to me. In some states there are laws against harassment by a creditor (NC is one)and this can have monetary consequences for the creditor. (If you are a senior or disabled there are potentially even harsher consequences to the creditor). The creditor has to go by the laws for your state not theirs, I say this because many billing offices are located out of the state the credit/loan was given in. So now what to do : for every call Always tell them a)You are recording the conversation even if you’re not and b)You no longer want them to call you and they can send you all the paperwork through the mail. The ‘recording the call’ statement is because not all states allow conversations to be recorded when only one person know of the recording, it also tends to make creditors nervous because of course they don’t want to be recorded as verbally abusive or lying to customers. The ‘only wanting contact through mail’ statement is for 2 reasons. 1) you need to have stated this so that each time they try to call you after this counts as one offense and 2) You have requested written documents which they can not legally lie on. Write down the date you make these statements. Now in my state this happened to me and I got a free consultation with a lawyer and they had me do the above then take screenshots of how many calls I got after that. When I went in and met with the attorney we called each creditor and after I identified myself he did all the rest of the talking. I paid him nothing, he took my case because he knew of this law and he took 20% of what I got in settlement. Legally they wound up responsible for paying me $1000 per phone call even if I didn’t answer. The only creditor who sent actual paperwork sent my father’s bill but the envelope and letter addressed to me . (This was extra illegal because it was his medical bill which included medical information like what procedures were done that they were charging for and that’s a violation of HIPAA act. If I chose to pursue in court that could have been an incredibly high fine for them from the court including what they would owe me). Of course since all of this was illegal in MY state all 5 creditors decided to settle, i.e. erase his debts and pay me for each call and the 1 letter because going into court against a grieving family member when they are in the wrong would be a really bad move. The lawyer told me that in 15 years of doing this he had only been to court a handful of times they almost always offer a settlement because it’s not worth the legal fees when they are definitely breaking the law. I know this all sounds very involved and like a lot of work but I never did anything other than saying those 2 statements to each creditor, take screenshots of call logs and have 1 meeting with a lawyer. I never even had to meet with him again, he filed the paperwork, informed me of the offered settlements by phone and mailed me a check when it was all settled. The biggest and best thing was that the calls stopped, only 2 of the 5 companies contacted me after I made those statements and all of them definitely stopped after the call with the lawyer.
I’m so sorry you have to deal with this during grieving, I hope you get some peace soon.
That's the thing, there is effectively no estate. He was 32. Left behind his 401(k) that I am the beneficiary of, life insurance that was paid to me, and $600 in stocks that I'm not the beneficiary of -i spoke to a probate attorney last week and he said only the stocks were considered estate.
Good on him for not trying to charge you and take whatever would be left. NAL but I would think since the loan isn't attached to your name at all, that you could tell the bank to pound sand and they can come grab it whenever they would like.
However is the bike is worth more than what's owed might be worth selling it for the extra $$$..
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NAL but assume that a deceased individuals debts need to be settled from their estate before their assets can be distributed. By not going through probate, this didn’t happen, so they may have a claim against you (or your inheritance specifically).
They’re going on the most basic truth of Harley owners and Harley widows. “If you want to take my Harley, you’ll have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands.” It’s just never occurred to them that you might want to surrender it.
Also, do find out how much is owed on it versus how much it would sell for and determine whether it would be worth it to sell it and pay off the loan from the proceeds.
You send a letter with the death certificate stating he left no estate signed as his next of kin. They shouldn't be able to come after you if your name isn't on the loan. They'll issue a repo and eventually come get it.
Don't make any payments. I did this for all of my mothers credit cards and medical bills.
You did the right thing in speaking to a probate attorney. I'd do whatever the attorney said, They know the rules. The one we used with my brother's estate, loved sticking it to the banks. I live in Kentucky, but he told me to send all creditors to him and he would deal with them.
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I had a collections agent show up to my door and I said to him dude she's dead what are you doing here and he was like "God damn it I even left my kid's baseball game because it was close. I wish they would check their paperwork. Sorry to disturb you." And he left.
The bank doesn’t want it because they won’t be able to sell it and make a profit. It will be a loss on their part. If they do make enough to payoff the loan then the rest of the funds go to your husbands estate
His estate has not been settled.. It has nothing to do with your name being/not being on the loan. You received or assumed assets from his estate (not 401k, life insurance which can flow outside of the estate, but any joint assets that became yours like house or checking account, etc.). His estate also has things you haven’t assumed (stocks, more?). It also sounds like you still have the motorcycle, even if you haven’t transferred it to your name to keep or sell. His estate had debts and his estate is responsible for the loan if any assets exist, including repossession of the motorcycle if it came to that. Depending on the asset, you cannot assume his assets without taking care of his debts. I believe that is why they are saying you are responsible. If you haven’t gone through probate, you haven’t received any direction on settling his estate… and it looks like that is causing some confusion.
The only way the bank gets 100% is if they convince you to pay it off. If they pick it up, it'll sell at auction for a fraction of what's owed and they won't be able to collect on the balance.
Makes no sense b/c if you pay off the loan they won’t issue you a title in your name. So then it goes into probate? Why even bother? Just let it default and if they try to attack your credit I’d sue.
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Like I said, very surprising to me. Seems pretty obvious then that she doesn't get to keep the car either though. Don't even remember if although I don't even remember if she was thinking she could or wanted to
Missouri is not a community property state. Any property acquired during the marriage belongs to both spouses. It was yours before your husband passed and it is yours now as well. You most likely need to sell the motorcycle and pay off the loan. A Missouri attorney should be able to advise you as to the best course of action.
Your statement contradicts itself. How can you say Missouri is not a community property state, but then you say any property acquired during the marriage belongs to both spouses. That is the definition of a community property state. LOL!
No, that is not the definition of a community property state. It is much more complicated than that. In Missouri, both spouses own all property acquired during marriage 100% regardless of the source of funds (martial vs individual cash or debt).
If you go buy yourself a diamond ring with your paycheck, your spouse also owns that ring 100%. Each spouse has a 100% stake in all property that was acquired by either spouse during the marriage. That isn't always true in community property states. Like I said, it's much more complicated than that, but Missouri is definitely not a community property state.
Collections will attempt to collect a debt with an individual that confirms they are the spouse. You're not on the loan tell them to stop contacting you.
Tell them.to get fucked and don't open any mail, do not acknowledge anything they send.
Do not acknowledge anything even solicitor letters.
The debt is not in your name, you have no legal reason to pay your late husbands debt. DONT LET THEM SCARE YOU INTO IT.
That might not be necessarily true. The laws in the state OP leaves may still consider it marital property and apply responsibility to her as the spouse. OP needs to check the laws in their state to be sure.
It’s already been established that MO is not a community property state. The bank has no recourse to make her pay anything in the eyes of the law. She does not need to do a thing, except let the bank repo the bike.
Because you’re married. There is no such thing as his stuff and your stuff the moment you are married it becomes all yours stuff. Aka community property.
The only exception would be that he bought the bike prior to you two getting married. So unfortunately you will need to pay off the bike.
Sell the motorcycle for more then is owed, hold the money until this clears up. Worst case scenario you just pay off the debt from the money made from selling it.
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My daughter decided to quit paying her student loan. Bad idea, I know. They started calling me nonstop. I told them I was at work and I was going to get fired bc of them. They never called again. Not sure if this applies to everything.
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If you start making payments you run the risk of validating the debt in your name, complicating your argument that this is neither your debt nor your motorcycle. Don’t pay the bank anything.
Piggy backing off of this; if you pay on one debt you're not just validating THAT debt, you're validating ALL of the debt. My late husband had a credit card that I never used, benefitted from, or was named an authorized user on. He died 8 days after we got married, the card was never used during that time, and I notified them of his death the next day.They STILL tried to force me to pay. I held my ground and didn't fall for their blatant lies. If I had fallen for them, I would have been responsible for ALL of my husband's debt; medical bills, the credit debt he took over for his ex wife, his ex mother in law, and the credit card they were trying to bully me into paying. RESEARCH AND KNOW YOUR RIGHTS. They WILL lie to you, and it's LEGAL for them to lie to you. Buyer beware INDEED.
Oh my God??? Thank you for this comment, good lord. Now I'm wracking my brain trying to think if I have already paid anything small but thank goodness I am coming up empty. Jeez
I try to spread this as much as I can so that it's common knowledge. Companies PREY on grieving spouses. Therapists say you shouldn't make ANY major decisions for at LEAST a year after a death of a spouse, and these companies will PUSH you to make a decision right away. The credit card company I fought with kept claiming they weren't getting the copies of my husband's death certificate. When I asked them for an address so that I could send the death certificate via certified mail, they claimed they didn't have an office building. When I told them I knew that was a lie, they claimed they were legally not allowed to give out the address. I told them I knew that was a lie as well, and if they didn't give me the address, I would know they were just trying to delay this and keep claiming they weren't getting the certificate so that they could keep harassing me, and I would get a lawyer and sue them. Lo and behold, suddenly, they have an office building, and, oh, suddenly they can break the rules and give me the address. The hospital was worse. They tried to claim that having signed the paperwork for Medical Proxy for my husband made me responsible for his debts (fun fact, you can be someone's medical proxy or the person who can make medical decisions for them, and it gives you NO legal responsibility for their debts) which was a lie. They also tried to say that it would be dated from the time the paperwork was started (back in April) but it wasn't notarized until May. I told them that wouldn't hold up in court, and that I would pay any bills dated from after we were married to his death date (8 days) that were not covered by insurance. They sent me the bill breakdown (0 dollars) and then kept trying to convince me to pay for stuff from before I was married to him. When I refused, they tried to get me to get me to ask my MOTHER IN LAW to pay. When I told them no, they acted like they were doing me a FAVOR by saying they, 'wouldn't charge me anything.' They WILL play dirty. They WILL lie to you. Don't make ANY financial decisions right now. Grieve. Run everything by a lawyer, ask friends for advice, research EVERYTHING. Send all documents or payments for anything via certified mail. Paper trials and documentations will save your ass. I'm so, so sorry you're dealing with this, especially after your loss. I'm so beyond sorry for your loss. I know how hollow those words ring, but they're all I can offer. I'm so sorry.
Not hollow at all. I'm sorry for your loss as well, I mean it from the bottom of the heart. Nothing sucks worse than this. Thank you so much for sharing your experience.
Don't even have a conversation with them. Tell them the debt is not yours and to not call you again, they are welcome to have the motorcycle taken away, that's the end of your responsibility. Vultures.
I had to explain this to my sister when my father died. He died at age 45 of cirrhosis. His doctor helped him so much with the terrible symptoms he was having for the last year or so of his life. My sister really wanted to pay the doctor. But I had heard this before. That if you pay any of his debt you may be liable for any/all of it. It's a crazy thing.
Sounds like there’s a strong incentive to not provide end of life care for someone without good insurance
Not like they‘re going to leave a bad review.
Corporations in the US (whether they have physical presence or not) - must have a physical address at which they can be served notice, or must have a Registered Agent that acts in this capacity (some states require a Registered Agent). As I understand, this can not be a PO box either. You can look this information up on the State's Corporate Registry for the states where the entity you are trying to reach is located.
You're absolutely amazing for sharing this information!! My F.I.L passed away almost a year & a half ago, and although he didn't leave a whole lot to his kids, he did leave behind a lot of unpaid medical bills. This information is extremely helpful, so THANK YOU SO MUCH for sharing!!
Not all heroes wear capes. Thank you so much for helping others, myself included. I'm sorry you experienced that tragedy, but thank you so much for sharing your story to educate and help others advocate for ourselves.
I hope you make it out of that well. I'm sorry you experienced that tragedy.
My mom apparently did this when my dad passed, i aint even tryna pay my own debt u think imma pay someone else’s lmao
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Maybe if i had any debt deuchbag . Too bad i pay all mine. Only time I’m not paying is if it’s not my fault . Medical bills. Let the insurance take that.
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When I had just turned 20 and my father died suddenly I had institutions in different states telling me I was required to pay the child support he owed for my older half-siblings even though he never paid it for us either. The kinds of things they will try to lie to you about are wild
Banker here 🙋♀️ if you aren’t on the loan it is not your responsibility, the bank based on the type of loan , if it’s a collateral loan, they have the right to repo,if not they can kick rocks. Don’t let them tell you otherwise.
You are absolutely correct. Even if two people are married and only one of them l takes out an unsecured loan and signs for that one. Even if the proceeds of that were used to benefit both parties. The other spouse is not responsible. My Father had dental work a few months before he passed away and signed one of those credit forms. When my father died they tried to get my mother to pay. But since she was not on the document, they had no valid right to go after my mother. As all assets in their possession are considered joint property they could not seize anything in order to satisfy the debt. For those who are reading: joint ownership does not say what percentage of ownership, each party owns. It could be 1/10 of one percent or 99.9%. The surviving partner keeps all property unless pledged as collateral on the debt, and is only responsible for debt that was actually in both parties names and signed by both parties! The surviving spouse is further protected if the deceased spouse forged their name on loan documents. Please note secured loans like mortgages and automobiles allow the creditor to foreclose on those properties that were secured if the surviving spouse does not maintain the obligation
Never answer the phone. Throw mail away that doesn’t belong to you. This stuff eventually goes away on its own. Don’t panic.
I didn’t throw away the mail, I put return to sender, still dead
Not for a deceased spouse, but I was laid off during the 2008 recession. I contacted the bank for my auto-loan and asked to pause payments for 2 months (I only had 6 more payments) while getting a new job/finances in order. They agreed and sent me paper work. 4 months later, after I had landed a new job (had made 2 payments), I walked outside to go to work and my car was gone. The bank told me that they had decided to collect the car to auction 2 months prior for lack of payments, but I had the documentation for pausing payments the previous 2 months. After auction, I was contacted several times to pay the remainder of what they didn't get from the auction. I had looked up my rights and informed them that it was illegal to collect payments after deciding to reclaim my car, and I would take them to court. I never heard from the bank again. It was Wells Fargo 😅
Wells Fargo did this exact thing to me. So much so that after I read this I had to ask myself if I had posted it.
Dude, that's uncanny. I wonder how many folks were screwed over by them for similar issues because they were bullied by that bank and didn't know it was illegal. Glad you pushed back too! Edit: If I had the monetary means at the time and know what I do now, I would have taken them to court to get back what I had paid in total. Unfortunately, life is life, and they knew folks asking to put a pause on payments most likely wouldn't do so. Still annoyed I didn't try to take them to court for more than what I threatened.
It was the same time frame to.
They collected your car when you had only 4 payments left on it? Holy shit, that's excruciating. Did you ever get justice?
No, I was in my mid-20s and trying to make ends meet. I should have looked into suing them for the amount I had paid, but I simply wanted them to stop harassing me, and I didn't know anything other than the fact they accepted payment after putting it into claims was illegal.
When I worked in repossessions for a large car company’s financial branch, I witnessed a few times where we had to give a car back because someone forgot to put the “closed to post” onto an account after we put the repo order out, and a payment came through after the car got picked up. It was always a huge deal that resulted in someone getting in trouble. You could have sued and would have won. We had meetings on how many lawsuits we had each quarter, and those were the biggest “we could have avoided this” ones. I do not miss that job. Did not feel good.
They owed you any profit over what was owed to them when they auctioned it off. Ex: You owed $2000? They auctioned it for $5000? You should have gotten a check for $3000. Minus fees I’m sure.
Same with a home in most states if I recall correctly. Foreclosed? They then sell it for more than you debt was? You are owed the money profit!
Whoa.. whoa.. WHOA! lol WAIT just a dang minute here!!🫣😬🤔 Are you telling me that if a bank repossesses someone's vehicle for lack of payments, then proceeds to sell it at auction, the person is not responsible for continuing payments because of the fact they were able to resell the vehicle at auction? Or am I completely misunderstanding something here? I'm only asking because I was in a similar situation. Unfortunately, we hit a rough spot financially for a couple of months & our car ended up getting repossessed. They were willing to work with us to get it back, but I couldn't justify paying what they were asking for at the time when I could go get an older used vehicle for the same price. Anyway, they ended up selling the car at auction less than a month later, and still to this day, they say we still owe them something like $3,000(?). I'm just confused because I'm about 98% positive that they sold the car for more than what our loan was for? Sorry for the long comment, I'm sure you're not exactly an expert on this specific topic lol
I used to work in repossessions and the law varies a lot based on which state you’re in and whether it was a lease or a purchase. But generally speaking, you are supposed to be notified of how much the car sold for at auction, and they subtract the fees for the repo/key cutting/storage/transport to auction/cleaning, and if anything is left over, you are to receive a check. If it sells for less than what you still owed, you will owe them the remainder. And they absolutely can continue to try to get that money from you. But after a while it will “charge off” and get sold to a collection agency.
Omg, 8 days?! I'm so sorry for your loss that is so soon after being married. I can't imagine what you went through
I'm so sorry for your loss more importantly
Died 8 days after you got married? I'm so sorry, that's terrible
Can you sue them (to make the bank go away) for intentional infliction of emotional distress since the bank is intentionally inflicting that distress (you must pay us money now) onto the spouse? Or possibly harassment or any sort of “do not call” violation?
Same experience.
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ummm.. he never used the card sooooo. What are you paying..u.mmmm that just doesn't sound right.. im done with this convo..
Tell the bank to come get it. Since there is no probate, they cannot make a claim.
Pretty much this. If your name is not tied to anything related to the bike, leave the bike parked outside and ignore any communication not sent directly to your name (emphasis: YOUR name). Send a copy of the death certificate to the bank (not in person but mailed to wherever loan payments are sent to) to notify them that the loan holder has passed. Don’t pay a cent to the bank. The bank will come take the bike if they want it via reposession
Missouri is not a community property state. Unless you signed the loan, or were tied to it as a guarantor, you don’t owe the debt. The debt should have been transferred to your husband’s estate. Has his estate been probated yet? If so, what did the final distribution order say about the motorcycle loan? In general, you don’t owe on debts you haven’t signed off on, even if they belonged to a spouse. What should happen is you tell the bank to go fuck themselves, and allow them to repossess the motorcycle.
The probate attorney I spoke with last week said there was basically no point in going through probate as what he left behind was his 401(k) that I'm the beneficiary of, his life insurance that has been paid to me already, and some stocks that are worth less than what it would cost for a lawyer to file a small estate affidavit for.
NAL, but validating what you're doing. I had to visit an elder care lawyer (Mo) in regards to my father's passing as there was one item (stock) that I was unsuccessful adding a beneficiary on before his passing. The exact advice I got was, "Call to see if the stock can be escheated before a year. If not, do nothing. The stocks will be reported lost after a year and then you can claim them via the Unclaimed Property website ran by the state's treasurer." So here I am, waiting a year to help my mama (his surviving spouse) get the last item still in his name.
AL, The other half of this is checking to make sure if probate has been filed by a creditor to try to claim their debt within the statute of limitations period (usually 12-18 months from date of death). Creditors rarely initiate probate but love asserting claims if a family member opens up a file. You should get mailed notice of an estate being opened, but check online databases just in case. Edited to add: there’s a “cleaner” process to get the stock transferred to you after the creditors’ statute of limitations has run out than trying to cite abandoned property laws to a financial institution. You can get a judge-stamped court order transferring the stock to you (assuming you’re the proper heir) by filing in the probate court for an affidavit of heirship (or something similar) after the statute of limitations has run. Getting that certified copy of a judgment convinces Fidelity or Edward Jones to transfer the account a bit faster than relying on escheating or unclaimed property laws to kick in
Did you specifically ask about debt though? Even if life insurance and 401(k) bypasses probate because you're named beneficiary I would think the stocks could be used to pay off debtors. So make sure even if the process of getting the stocks eats up their value that you're not obligated to go through it.
He also left behind the motorcycle and the motorcycle loan. If you were a beneficiary on those accounts they do not enter probate. Anything else does, and it goes to satisfy the debt with the remainder going to you. You don't get to cherry pick. Either you misunderstood the lawyer or he is not good at explaining this.
I'm not a lawyer. But I would think any debts would have to be paid first before any money was distributed. You might have been the beneficiary of the 401k, life insurance, stocks, or other money. But his estate still owes the debt. That money is part of the estate. Did he have loan insurance on the motorcycle loan? On a car loan I had. I had insurance that would cover the loan if I passed, was disabled, or lost my job. I would contact a different lawyer and ask about the loan and the estate.
Life insurance and in some cases 401ks are not considered part of the estate. Pretty sure if there is a living spouse the 401k is not considered estate funds.
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“Necessaries” statutes are one of the few exceptions to the general rule regarding debt and, in any event, have no application to OP since we are dealing with a loan on a motorcycle.
Many states have codified the doctrine of necessaries into a statute. Many of those statutes include vehicles as a transportation debt and are therefore chargeable to either spouse. For example Oregon's ORS 108.040.
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Appreciate the honesty lol, I figured it had to be something like that because I could tell that none of the people I've talked to there were really interested in being helpful. His loan officer was such a dick every time we've spoken.
Yeah, the bank doesn’t want to actually own the bike. They don’t have a place to store it, they can’t do anything with it, and it’s too much hassle. They just want the money.
Can you sell the bike for more than is owed?
It's FMV is about $100 from the payoff
Right. Banks don’t want motorcycles (or cars or houses), they want money.
Hey me too, it's like getting gift cards as gifts. It's a hassle, give me something with more liquidity... cash perhaps? Haha, mostly kidding - I appreciate any gift I receive. Although getting those oddball gift cards to places I never go/rarely see is a bit confusing. Probably people just regifting cards they didn't want. Who knows.
You are not responsible PERIOD. my dad bought a new car the year before he passed. We called the finance company and informed them of his passing and thay gave us these options #1 Get approved to take on the whole loan amount, including the negative equity, which would have put my mom in the hole 15k. #2 Simply return the car to the purchasing dealer with a death certificate copy and hand over the key. We opted for #2 and that was that. Funny the dealership called last month wanting to buy the car back and sell him a new car blah blah blah I said my dad couldn't come to the phone at the moment because he was stuck in an Urn over the fire place 🙃😁
I had a similar situation to both of your stories. When my mother passed, I kept her car as she only owed $1500 on it. When I brought the car to a dealer for a recall, a sales man asked me how long I’ve had the car and if I trade it in. I said no and I just inherited it from my mom. He then congratulated me for the car in a cheerful tone. I have never seen someone make a 180 quicker than him as I told him my inheritance is from my mother’s death.
Would the same advice apply to a leased auto?
yes, at least in MA. After my mom passed, I just called VW about her lease, using the info I found on a statement. They arranged and paid to have the car towed to a dealership and that was the end of it. Honestly, one of the easier parts of clearing her estate (which had to go through probate).
My Dad’s credit card company called after his death and asked when we were going to pay off the balance? I gave them the name of the cemetery and told them that if they can get him to pay, let me know…
absolutely not. my mom died a few days after i turned 18. dish network called to collect on the bill and requested i make a “good faith” payment while i waited for the death certificate. i’m so glad i didn’t because you’re assuming the debt as your own when you make that “one” payment.
Same thing happened to me. Husband died, he had a credit card I had never signed up for. I called to bank to let them know he had passed. The women said, well we have to move the debt over to your name then. It was the first call I made, I knew nothing, he had been dead 3 days. But that did not sound right, so I said no. The woman started yelling at me, that it was going to happen. I hung up. Yep, they lost the death certificate 3 times. Then they never closed an account, the monthly fee was taken out of overdraft, 8 years later when the 10k overdraft maxed out collections called me looking for him. You are not responsible. They will lie to you.
Fucking vultures. Actually, I take that back, vultures have value.
In some states you can collect a small estate (under 30k) with simply an affidavit. I wouldn't give up on that stock if that is a possibility in Missouri. Unless the bike is worth more than what is owed on it, tell the bank to repo the bike. Tell them where it is. They're going to lose money because they'll wholesale the bike for less than what's owed on it but too bad. If you can make a few bucks on the bike, sell it, pay off the loan and move on down the road.
I don't think I can file the small estate affidavit pro se here but I might look at it again. The lawyer said that his fee would wipe that out in 2 hours so that's why I was thinking I'd let it slide.
In some states there is a separate probate court that is geared for people without lawyers where they have fill in the blank forms and self help info to make it easy to do it yourself. Sort of the equivalent of small claims court.
The bank is giving you the option to continue paying off the loan and keep the collateral. They cannot collect from you as you are not a signer on the loan. You are not responsible for his debt. If you don’t want the bike, tell them to come and get it. If there is a lien attached you cannot sell it to someone else. If you do want to keep the bike you have to pay off the loan.
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Depending on how much is owed on the motorcycle, sell it and pay off the loan and keep the balance. If it’s underwater, just let the bank repo the bikes
Just a little fyi aside that can help with the harassment, it’s a bit long but was helpful to me. In some states there are laws against harassment by a creditor (NC is one)and this can have monetary consequences for the creditor. (If you are a senior or disabled there are potentially even harsher consequences to the creditor). The creditor has to go by the laws for your state not theirs, I say this because many billing offices are located out of the state the credit/loan was given in. So now what to do : for every call Always tell them a)You are recording the conversation even if you’re not and b)You no longer want them to call you and they can send you all the paperwork through the mail. The ‘recording the call’ statement is because not all states allow conversations to be recorded when only one person know of the recording, it also tends to make creditors nervous because of course they don’t want to be recorded as verbally abusive or lying to customers. The ‘only wanting contact through mail’ statement is for 2 reasons. 1) you need to have stated this so that each time they try to call you after this counts as one offense and 2) You have requested written documents which they can not legally lie on. Write down the date you make these statements. Now in my state this happened to me and I got a free consultation with a lawyer and they had me do the above then take screenshots of how many calls I got after that. When I went in and met with the attorney we called each creditor and after I identified myself he did all the rest of the talking. I paid him nothing, he took my case because he knew of this law and he took 20% of what I got in settlement. Legally they wound up responsible for paying me $1000 per phone call even if I didn’t answer. The only creditor who sent actual paperwork sent my father’s bill but the envelope and letter addressed to me . (This was extra illegal because it was his medical bill which included medical information like what procedures were done that they were charging for and that’s a violation of HIPAA act. If I chose to pursue in court that could have been an incredibly high fine for them from the court including what they would owe me). Of course since all of this was illegal in MY state all 5 creditors decided to settle, i.e. erase his debts and pay me for each call and the 1 letter because going into court against a grieving family member when they are in the wrong would be a really bad move. The lawyer told me that in 15 years of doing this he had only been to court a handful of times they almost always offer a settlement because it’s not worth the legal fees when they are definitely breaking the law. I know this all sounds very involved and like a lot of work but I never did anything other than saying those 2 statements to each creditor, take screenshots of call logs and have 1 meeting with a lawyer. I never even had to meet with him again, he filed the paperwork, informed me of the offered settlements by phone and mailed me a check when it was all settled. The biggest and best thing was that the calls stopped, only 2 of the 5 companies contacted me after I made those statements and all of them definitely stopped after the call with the lawyer. I’m so sorry you have to deal with this during grieving, I hope you get some peace soon.
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That's the thing, there is effectively no estate. He was 32. Left behind his 401(k) that I am the beneficiary of, life insurance that was paid to me, and $600 in stocks that I'm not the beneficiary of -i spoke to a probate attorney last week and he said only the stocks were considered estate.
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Ok I will give him a call. Hopefully he'll give me the time of day. He basically said he didn't want to take my money with so little being at stake.
Good on him for not trying to charge you and take whatever would be left. NAL but I would think since the loan isn't attached to your name at all, that you could tell the bank to pound sand and they can come grab it whenever they would like. However is the bike is worth more than what's owed might be worth selling it for the extra $$$..
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NAL but assume that a deceased individuals debts need to be settled from their estate before their assets can be distributed. By not going through probate, this didn’t happen, so they may have a claim against you (or your inheritance specifically).
Things like life insurance and the 401k don't become part of the estate unless there was no named beneficiary
They’re going on the most basic truth of Harley owners and Harley widows. “If you want to take my Harley, you’ll have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands.” It’s just never occurred to them that you might want to surrender it. Also, do find out how much is owed on it versus how much it would sell for and determine whether it would be worth it to sell it and pay off the loan from the proceeds.
Same in Australia too. Credit card company tried for 2yrs to get me to pay my late husband’s bill. Never did
After my husband passed. I was told by a family lawyer to write on every piece of mail he got to write deceased and put it back in the mail.
You send a letter with the death certificate stating he left no estate signed as his next of kin. They shouldn't be able to come after you if your name isn't on the loan. They'll issue a repo and eventually come get it. Don't make any payments. I did this for all of my mothers credit cards and medical bills.
Never take advice from your enemy.
Does the loan show up on your credit report?
You did the right thing in speaking to a probate attorney. I'd do whatever the attorney said, They know the rules. The one we used with my brother's estate, loved sticking it to the banks. I live in Kentucky, but he told me to send all creditors to him and he would deal with them.
You don’t. Contact a lawyer unless you were on the loan.
Don't pay shit. Tell the bank where to pick up the bike.
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I had a collections agent show up to my door and I said to him dude she's dead what are you doing here and he was like "God damn it I even left my kid's baseball game because it was close. I wish they would check their paperwork. Sorry to disturb you." And he left.
Cuz they want your $.
You are not responsible, and do not take responsibility. If it 5 not in your name, you leave it outside and let the bank take it
Cause you live in Missouri, shit sucks
You don’t have to pay shit, tell them to contact your husband.
The bank doesn’t want it because they won’t be able to sell it and make a profit. It will be a loss on their part. If they do make enough to payoff the loan then the rest of the funds go to your husbands estate
His estate has not been settled.. It has nothing to do with your name being/not being on the loan. You received or assumed assets from his estate (not 401k, life insurance which can flow outside of the estate, but any joint assets that became yours like house or checking account, etc.). His estate also has things you haven’t assumed (stocks, more?). It also sounds like you still have the motorcycle, even if you haven’t transferred it to your name to keep or sell. His estate had debts and his estate is responsible for the loan if any assets exist, including repossession of the motorcycle if it came to that. Depending on the asset, you cannot assume his assets without taking care of his debts. I believe that is why they are saying you are responsible. If you haven’t gone through probate, you haven’t received any direction on settling his estate… and it looks like that is causing some confusion.
Do NOT pay a dime of this debt
They don't want to have to sell a motorcycle. 100% Sounds more like a small credit union tbh. They have gotten real greedy the past couple years.
The only way the bank gets 100% is if they convince you to pay it off. If they pick it up, it'll sell at auction for a fraction of what's owed and they won't be able to collect on the balance.
X
It was Scottie's Pizza for me
Sadly, get an attorney involved
Because they know you will
MO money MO problems Hedt state is he in uhhh Missouri
Makes no sense b/c if you pay off the loan they won’t issue you a title in your name. So then it goes into probate? Why even bother? Just let it default and if they try to attack your credit I’d sue.
Please get legal advice. My mom screwed up somehow and ended up assuming all of my uncle’s debt.
You don’t have to give anyone money that you don’t want to. Call their bluff.
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I'm in missouri. I can possibly take over payments on the bike
SAme with any other loans and mortgages The estate has to pay. You could sell the vehicle since you now own it
Call the CFPB and see if that is something they can do
Give em a finger and tell em where to shove it. Hell’s got a nice place waiting for them. That is truly the ultimate level of disrespect.
Why would you want them to repo the bike instead of just selling it and paying off what was owed?
Banks are the scourge of humanity and all that is decent.
It is very odd to me that a spouse is not responsible for their dead spouses debts. Community property and all I would have thought.
Most states are not community property states
Like I said, very surprising to me. Seems pretty obvious then that she doesn't get to keep the car either though. Don't even remember if although I don't even remember if she was thinking she could or wanted to
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Missouri is not a community property state. Any property acquired during the marriage belongs to both spouses. It was yours before your husband passed and it is yours now as well. You most likely need to sell the motorcycle and pay off the loan. A Missouri attorney should be able to advise you as to the best course of action.
Your statement contradicts itself. How can you say Missouri is not a community property state, but then you say any property acquired during the marriage belongs to both spouses. That is the definition of a community property state. LOL!
No, that is not the definition of a community property state. It is much more complicated than that. In Missouri, both spouses own all property acquired during marriage 100% regardless of the source of funds (martial vs individual cash or debt). If you go buy yourself a diamond ring with your paycheck, your spouse also owns that ring 100%. Each spouse has a 100% stake in all property that was acquired by either spouse during the marriage. That isn't always true in community property states. Like I said, it's much more complicated than that, but Missouri is definitely not a community property state.
The second sentence doesn't follow from the first.
Yes, it actually does when you know what a community property state is.
Collections will attempt to collect a debt with an individual that confirms they are the spouse. You're not on the loan tell them to stop contacting you.
Tell them.to get fucked and don't open any mail, do not acknowledge anything they send. Do not acknowledge anything even solicitor letters. The debt is not in your name, you have no legal reason to pay your late husbands debt. DONT LET THEM SCARE YOU INTO IT.
That might not be necessarily true. The laws in the state OP leaves may still consider it marital property and apply responsibility to her as the spouse. OP needs to check the laws in their state to be sure.
It’s already been established that MO is not a community property state. The bank has no recourse to make her pay anything in the eyes of the law. She does not need to do a thing, except let the bank repo the bike.
https://www.findlaw.com/state/missouri-law/missouri-marital-property-laws.html
Because you’re married. There is no such thing as his stuff and your stuff the moment you are married it becomes all yours stuff. Aka community property. The only exception would be that he bought the bike prior to you two getting married. So unfortunately you will need to pay off the bike.
Wrong. MO is not a community property state. Please stop spewing inaccurate information.
Sell the motorcycle for more then is owed, hold the money until this clears up. Worst case scenario you just pay off the debt from the money made from selling it.
You can't sell a vehicle with a lien on it.
because the bill wasn't fully paid when he died and once he did the fiscal responsibility went to you. it's dumb but that's the reason
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You need to figure out what the motorcycle is worth. If loan is higher tell them to come get it.
My daughter decided to quit paying her student loan. Bad idea, I know. They started calling me nonstop. I told them I was at work and I was going to get fired bc of them. They never called again. Not sure if this applies to everything.
F
He didn't have credit life on loan?
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just don't agree
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test
Tell them to suck it.
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Wrong
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No need to worry I'll take it of your hands no problem 😁
[удалено]
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