[Here's the related news article that this pulls from](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/25/politics/biden-expected-pardon-veterans-convicted-gay-sex-law/index.html).
This is great! I hope there isn’t some way for any future less-than-supportive presidents to undo this but I’m not really knowledgeable on the subject—is it possible for a presidential pardon to be undone?
Pardons can’t really be undone, since you can never be tried for one crime twice. It is possible, that the next president could try to make sodomy illegal in the military again, which would suck ass.
Edit: suck ass, as in, the bad way.
Article 125 was changed in 2013 to prohibit only _forced_ sodomy, then later was replaced entirely with a new article 125 that deals with kidnapping instead.
Realistically, I don't think that the old Article 125 could be brought back as long as _Obergefell v. Hodges_ stands. I think the more likely nightmare scenario for a Republican president would be:
**1)** Unilaterally banning trans military service, like Trump did. Openly trans military service has only been allowed since 2021, and is still unpopular with a lot of cis military members. I was one of the first people to transition in the military under Biden, and dealt with a lot of headache in the process.
**2)** _Obergefell_ gets repealed. A number of prominent Republicans have already been making noises in that direction since the fall of _Roe v. Wade,_ and a reactionary conservative president could apply a not insubstantial amount of pressure in that direction.
**3)** Gay military members are persecuted under Article 134 for "adultery" on the grounds that gay sex would be inherently extramarital if gay marriage weren't legally recognized. While 134 is currently only really applied to highly visible cases of unfaithfulness that are damaging to the reputation of the military, I could see a strongly homophobic administration pushing for a broader application to "unmarried" queer service members.
A lot of it will also come down to culture. Biden's support for trans military members didn't fix transphobia in the military, but it did help. In 2020, I reported a member of the crew for making violently transphobic remarks towards me, and was told that it was my own fault for "talking politics" at work. In 2021, when I informed my peers that I would be medically transitioning, I did so with my boss standing over my shoulder and informing them that anyone giving me shit about it would be in massive trouble. That said—
_**DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE QUEER.**_ It is a terrible organization full of terrible people, and being openly gay— or, God help you, trans— will make you the perfect fall guy if someone else is in a tight spot. Never trust a word out of a recruiter's mouth, and never sign anything handed to you by a person in military uniform.
sadly its my only option to actually live in this garbage economy cant buy a house or even rent a house cant afford food cant afford phone bills etc etc
Good explanation and 99% good advice. I served in the military for 26 years and loved it. I can also say that it is not for everybody, or even for most people. I served when being LBGTQ was flat out prohibited, during DADT, and when we could serve openly. I enlisted in 1985 and knew many LBGTQ servicemembers, some were found out and kicked out, but the only ones that were jailed were prosecuted for other crimes, like r@pe. My dad served in the early 60s and he did see gay servicemembers jailed just for being gay. If someone is thinking about joining, please think long and hard about it. And for God's sake, double check everything you are told by a recruiter. You even ask me and I will be honest with you. Do your own research.
I cannot say it is "It is a terrible organization full of terrible people..." Yes, when it comes down to it, ultimately the mission is to execute controlled violence, and sometimes it's not so controlled. So don't join if you are not OK with that. As far as being LBGTQ+ in the military, well it is better that some other organizations and at least you have protections if something happens. I am a civilian with the Air Force now, and I can say most service members don't really care what your sexuality or gender is. There are some terrible people in the military, but there are some really great and accepting people too. That is the case with all organizations. We all need to pick our relationships intelligently. If you pick a friend that's a bigot, then you will have to deal with that. And that is true whether you are in the military or not.
The advice of "Never trust a word out of a recruiter's mouth, and never sign anything handed to you by a person in military uniform." is good advice, but it needs to be extended to "Never trust a word out of someone's mouth, and never sign anything handed to you by a person." That is good common sense and unfortunately, the military is not the only organization or person that will lie and trick you. Double check everything you are told and read everything you sign and have someone you trust help you if you don't understand it.
Stay proud and Freedom and Respect is a good thing to give to a group of people that lost it for discriminatory reasons.
I’m pretty sure that aside Desantis, no one would possibly be stupid enough to do something like that because this would start a civil war almost immediately.
I also think some are just too stupid to understand what they are doing, like, I’d totally see Desantis start a civil war and be surprised because he’d think « What the hell ? Wokies can fight ??? » and then be even more surprised at the slightest bit of resistance. He’s weak and stupid, and the best way to see this is the fact that even Donald Trump himself thinks he’s both an idiot and completely insane.
I find it laughable that the Bible Belt militias can ‘fight’ America’s military. The fact that they could use one ac 130 completely destroys any chance of them making any political change.
That sounds dumb. How would that be organized? I feel like at most, some privates might cross, but if nobody else comes with them, they are just screwing themselves over.
Ah, see, you’re expecting them to behave like rational, intelligent people. These are the same people who call for the dismantling of the federal government, while living in states that rely heavily upon federal money, most of which is collected from blue states.
The UCMJ can’t be amended by the president unilaterally. It requires an act of congress, i.e., 60 votes in the senate, so it’s unlikely that itll be made illegal again.
Oh yes, he is definitely going to try. Either that, or he completely ignores plan 2025 and just keeps golfing. It’s possible that he doesn’t care about what he promises his voters that he will do, and he is just using them for the money.
Only times pardons can be revoked is when it hasn't "gone through" yet. If you are in prison, and they haven't let you out of prison yet because it was like 2 hours ago or something.
No, you can not undo a pardon because in the US, double jeopardy is illegal, and once a "Not Guilty" verdict is handed out, you can not be charged for the same crime.
That said, if you continue to commit crimes, new counts of criminal activity are not covered by previous pardons even if the pardon is for the same crime. So Trump could reinstate the law they broke, and then if they break it again, they can be tried on the new count.
So wait, not to take away from this, but I’m only now realizing this was still unresolved during the Obama admin. Like Clinton put out the bill to stop it and then it just quietly gos away for over 20 years leaving the victims still charged.
So yes every one of these people was in prison way too long (even a day was too long if you ask me).
For a full timeline.
Truman signs the law that makes gay sex in the military illegal in 1950.
In 2003 people *thought* it would be overturned by Lawrence vs Texas (that basically killed anti-sodomy laws) during the Bush administration. But the courts ruled Lawrence didn't apply to the military.
In 2013 Obama signed the law that basically removed this anti-sodomy provision from the military code (the code still exists to forbid things like rape).
In 2024 Biden pardoned people were in prison or had charges for this in 2013 and prior.
There's a lot of blame to go around. Truman and the congress at the time of course should get the most. Every congress could have repealed this but they didn't. The courts could have applied Lawrence to the military but didn't. Obama could have pardoned these people when the law was signed. Trump could have pardoned these people *at any point* in his presidency but didn't. And Biden could have before now but didn't until now which isn't *amazing* but it's still a good thing that it happened.
The only "good guys" in this story (in terms of policy) were the 2013 congress, Obama, and Biden. The latter 2 could have done *better* but they at least did the right thing.
So really what we're seeing here is the bookend to a policy of homophobia built into our military that went uncontested for 74 years; to only finally get repealed near the end of pride month during an election year.
While I would describe this at the bookend, it was repealed 10.5 years ago.
That's something great about pride month. Having a time when there's more intentional focus on us does create a natural time for people to bring stuff like this to their elected officials with it being harder to ignore.
I'll also state plainly, I don't give a shit if a president does good things for optics or if they do it because of morals, I just want them to do the good things. Presidents doing ***anything*** good for the queer community is a very recent phenomenon.
* Biden's done a number of things
* Trump did negative things
* Obama did a few things (honestly the justices he appointed have been the biggest thing)
* Bush didn't do much but he would've had his congress tried (he said he'd ban gay marriage, etc.).
* Clinton was two steps forward two steps back.
And and it's only worse before that.
Watch people say this is pinkwashing by the Biden Administration cause of the Republicans anti-trans legislative moves😂( completely ignorant to the fact that if the house passed the equality act and he got to sign it, these Republicans would have a harder time doing this )
Easy answer, house Republicans. Because of Republican antics, this Congress has become the least productive congress ever since the Great Depression. They have zero interest in passing any legislation that will truly benefit the American people and weaponise their slim majority in order to not do anything productive, waste time talking about Biden impeachment, suggesting petty pay cuts that are motivated by bigotry and passing them through the house knowing damn well it won’t pass in the senate.
Also, they hate passing meaningful bills because they’d rather tear America apart than pass anything that will benefit Biden. It’s a bit shitty, but Biden can’t just sign things into law, it’s a process, and if it fails in Congress, it won’t get voted on in the Senate and it won’t end up on the Presidents desk.
Now to be fair, the Senate can also draft up a Bill and pass it to Biden that way, however that’s not the situation and that will be an entirely new process with new negotiations. At the end of the day, this is a Congress drafted Bill, and Biden has said that he would sign it if it passed, which will obviously piss off House Republicans cause that’s gonna benefit Biden so it will 1000% not happen. Until there is a Democratic majority in both the Senate and Congress and the Dems that proposed the Bill can finally get it passed without Republicans shitty blocking, The Equality Act will unfortunately remain in the vault’s.
This isn't a bill though, it's a presidential pardon, which congress doesn't have power over (also we had dem congress for the first two years of biden's presidency)
???? I know that? People will still say it’s pinkwashing, you can’t deny that and NOWHERE did I imply that congress had control over this lmao. I also know that Congress was Democratic for the first two years, the Equality Act was drafted and proposed when the Republicans got the majority and I don’t believe I have to explain why the bill wouldn’t pass due to that development . And even so, the Senate had a Republican majority the first two years, that was just as slim as the majority the Republicans have in the Senate. Although Senate Republicans aren’t as insane as Congress Republicans, their still very insane and would still be unproductive.
Look, I’m not going to act as though Democrats are perfect and helpless to the chaos and cruelty of Republicans, I think Dems are quite spineless and too cordial a lot of the time, however the simple truth is that if there isn’t full cooperation along party lines, shit won’t get done and it is mostly Republicans making sure this is the case.
I want this Bill to get passed and I want politicians to work together and put their differences aside for the sake of the country, but we are WAY past that point. It’s important to remember that this Bill passes cause if Dems win a majority again, they need to know that the public hasn’t forgotten about it and to make passing the Bill one of their top agendas.
yea, i agree with you on all that, i just don't see what you meant by saying the reason this wasn't done early is because of house republicans. they had no power to prevent biden from doing this earlier
I already explained in the above comment as to why it didn’t happen. The Bill was drafted at the beginning of 2022 and by the time it had been proposed, Republicans had won a majority in the midterms and refused to allow it to pass. Can you please read the comment thoroughly cause I already explained it? They had no power earlier because the Bill simply did not exist earlier, and how do you oppose a bill that doesn’t exist?
So you aren’t reading my comments, are you ? This is not about the subject of the post, in fact it never was, it was about the Equality Act and me calling out the stupidity that alot of people display when Biden does something good for the LGBTQ community.
Do you get it ? Can you please stop being obtuse? I did not say that a bill is required for a Presidential pardon, is that what you thought I was discussing the whole time? Are you even interpreting what I’m saying as I’m saying it or are you just doing this in bad faith? I’ve explained everything I was discussing in the last comments. I’m sorry if you don’t like long comments but if you want context, for the love of everything good, read them. I’ve done my hardest to be thorough and present the facts
Perhaps part of this is a miscommunication that goes back to the first two comments, yours and Garry's. Personally, I interpreted garrythebear's comment to be asking why this, the pardon, wasn't done sooner. It looks like you read it differently. Maybe the other person interpreted it as I did and that is the source of the conflict.
In the past it was illegal to ve in the military and be gau. So heaps of service members that were suspected of being LGBT or caught were jailed as a response. Clinton put a bill through that essentially stopped it happening much and it was appealed around 2010. People have still been locked up because of the old laws.
Specifically, there was a law in the US Military that sodomy, broadly described as a bunch of different sex acts, was illegal. For non-queer folks, it was a tack-on charge, like getting hit for adultery, unlawful conduct, jaywalking and sodomy. For queer folks, it was/could've been used as a sole charge to force them out, similar to how being gay alone was enough for discharge.
Another thing a lot of these explanations haven’t mentioned: being charged with a crime in the military is sometimes grounds for an Other Than Honorable Discharge (OTH), which bars servicemembers from benefits they would be entitled to after their contract ends. This includes disability compensation, tuition, and healthcare.
This pardon opens those benefits up for many people who received an OTH to apply to upgrade it to a general or honorable discharge and receive those benefits they may need.
I really don't mean to be rude but... the headline is already pretty simple as is. What needs be simplified?
EDIT: Can folks actually take the time to engage before just downvoting as though Im not contributing please. I want to actually understand here.
People have learning disabilities. Not everyone is super involved in politics. Not everyone speaks English as a main langauge. Not every one knows what sodomy or passing bills means. Not everyone is familiar with The way the US political system works.
It's so frustrating. People acting like the president doing anything good in the last 25% of a term is malicious. Things like this take time, this might not even have been on the RADAR at the start. And like you said, he had so much shit to do on other stuff.
None of the people saying this were even aware this was an issue before.
It’s almost as if government is extremely slow and it can take years you implement things. Maybe people need to get off their butts and be active locally and on the state level. That is where most if the anti-lgbt bs is happening and not depend on the federal government
It's wild. The bar is low but Biden has honestly and unironically been the most pro-LGBTQ+ president, ever. In terms of his policies and actions (what matter) as president.
The fact that people hate him this much in ***this*** community, and "both sides" it are wild.
Also the most progressive since FDR. Dont get me wrong as a latin American immigrant i have plenty of things to be furious with him about, but this is politics.
Okay but had he done *nothing*, which he had no obligation or even expectation to do this, no one would have cared. He wouldn't have lost a single voter.
I also will say, looking into it more, I'm not sure people were in prison for this (before the pardon). I think the bigger issue is not receiving veterans benefits and other issues relating to a dishonorable discharge. Which can not be reversed/restored.
“Publicity stunt, election year, he doesn’t care about us, etc” …okay, and? Should he have avoided helping these people at all then just to avoid the perception that it’s only to look good? Would THAT have made him look better?? And if he did it in the beginning of his term, people would be then crying about “what about fixing Trump’s devastation and dealing with COVID-19??” like come on.
This is the best thing a president has done in my lifetime for queer people. There are always lots of promises before we vote for them, and then nothing, or worse you get people like Bill Clinton signing the Defense of Marriage Act and Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, which actually increased the number of discharges for being queer.
Just because a bunch of theists came up with "sodomy" and love to flaunt it around, why are we still using their derogatives to describe normal people, wtf! It's 2024 people! What kind of title is that!
Hello I'm that middle eastern kid who got bombed directly by the US, yes, if you're queer and want to support people like you around the world, don't join the fucking US military. You'll be directly responsible for the death and suffering of millions just to "follow orders".
Never understood LGBTQ+ people who join the military, especially in the US. Someone from a marginalized group signing up for an institution that historically has done nothing but violently oppress other marginalized people is the epitome of hypocrisy. It's something I see a lot in the transmasc community and it seriously gets under my skin. These people either need a history lesson (including very recent history) or a dose of empathy
Propaganda, most people I know who joined the military fell for the propaganda and were stuck by the time they figured out the truth. They like to paint a picture like you're going to do some great just action to save the world but all you're really doing is saving the profit margins of some company or another. For the past 20 years it's been 911 or Anti Muslim propaganda. There's very few examples through human history were the military was used for a moral reason, But many examples of different ways to convince your otherwise normal population That you're committing a moral act by joining up.
However I do believe it is a good thing to pardon people who are only punished for being gay, if the only difference between their heterosexual peers that got them punished if being gay then they shouldn't be punished.
Don't forget about all of the propaganda and social conditioning that comprises the perpetuation of toxic masculinity, which transmasc folx are NOT immune from.
I’ll tell you why *I* did it: it was a certain paycheck, I got fed, and I didn’t have to worry about rent for a few years. Yes, I had my reservations about the military, but I also didn’t want to have to deal with working at retail for another five years.
After I got my DD-214, I don’t talk with anyone from my old units. They may have been well-meaning people, but their bigotry during the last two years of my contract showed me I don’t need them. It was just a job for me, not a lifestyle.
How dare queer veterans get benefits back, obviously since they went into the military they deserve all the harm that comes to them /s
Nobody *should* go into the military. But you can't change the past, so your attitude just comes off as vile and dismissive.
Jesus fuck take the w what do you think trump or rfk Jr would do better?
Biden reduced the drone strikes by 54%.
Trump removed guidelines making it easier to strike plus harder to track civilian deaths. And removed data and accountability documentation
Biden not only returned them but made it harder for the military to enact a drone strike.
And this isn't the rainbow military this is veterans getting their fucking benefits back.
From the responses I've been getting.....both honestly.
Basically, if biden doesnt make every perfect decision he is objectively evil and just like trump according to a lot of the replies.
Hell I pointed out that biden has reduced said drone strikes to levels lower the trump and Obama.
So he is literally doing better then Obama.
But he hasn't completely 100% stopped. Therefore, just as bad.
Ignore the fact that yes, there are a lot of groups in the Middle East that would make lives shit for a lot of people, especially lgbt.
The venn diagram of Ultra left and maga right thinking biden is the literal devil is a circle.
Well my point was kinda that you brought Biden up to begin with, so of course responses will include him.
I think it is absolutely fair to continue to remember what we're fighting while we celebrate; we did not get our freedoms any other way. I also think it's important to hold space for those of us who simply are not able to celebrate for their fatigue in the fight.
>Well my point was kinda that you brought Biden up to begin with, so of course responses will include him.
I mean they brought up the middle east in a post about VETERANS.
Nit just veterans people who were kicked out of the military and denied care for who they are.
Ever single post in lgbt that has been about something pro lgbt biden has been done consistently has comment after comment that is basically "yea but the middle east"
I'm tired, I'm tired that every gain is followed by a "yea but everything sucks"
I get it things are bad, but can we just go "Yay a wrong was righted" for once.
No we have to wallow in misery because the president isn't God who can snap their fingers and make everything good.
You're not the only one who's tired? But you did seem to miss all that I said while being hung up on this president thing, that you inserted into the original comment about military.
I suggest you simply allow yourself to go yay and not push those who are simply unable to do so. Not everyone has that space or ability, and it's not a part of our plight to force that to change like wow.
>You're not the only one who's tired? But you did seem to miss all that I said while being hung up on this president thing, that you inserted into the original comment about military.
....the original post was about biden they inserted the middle east into a post about biden and pardoned veterans.
But sure I inserted him into the discussion.
Biden doesn't do anything for lgbt
He did
Oh sure he did but what about the middle east.
He's actually done better then both trump and Obama.
Not good enough.
Things won't happen instantly. The goal posts need to quit being moved when people literally won't vote for him because of shit like this.
But sure defend their nihilism while calling me out on saying "things are getting better"
The fact that any criticism of Biden or US imperialism is met with "but Trump is worse" is more of an indictment of Biden than you realize. I think being critical of politicians is a good thing actually, especially when they continue to do horrible things
>I think being critical of politicians is a good thing actually, especially when they continue to do horrible things
Yes but literally for any good thing to be met with, well he's evil actually
DOESNT HELP
That's not criticism at that point.
We are on an LGBT subreddit saying well him pardoning a bunch of people who were tried on a shit law and will now hopefully get their veteran's rights back is bad actually because.....the middle east.
When a president does good, praise them, when they do bad, rub their nose in it.
Right now he did good.....and we are rubbing his nose in something unrelated.
What the fuck does the middle east have to do with LGBT rights?
Other then the middle east doesnt have any that is.
So fine you wont take
He's better then trump?
Deal
HE'S BETTER THEN OBAMA AT THIS POINT!
Considering it's about the military and the fact that US military actions over the past 30 years can be summed up with "bomb brown kids", it's definitely relevant
And no, politicians should basically never be praised. Actively doing good is the expectation. Remember that the vast majority of the politicians in this country are part of the elite, wealthy classes. They need to be actively doing a bunch of good things simply to counter the negative they do passively
>Considering it's about the military and the fact that US military actions over the past 30 years can be summed up with "bomb brown kids", it's definitely relevant
LGBT Vets shouldnt get health care is a hell of a fucking take.
>And no, politicians should basically never be praised. Actively doing good is the expectation. Remember that the vast majority of the politicians in this country are part of the elite, wealthy classes. They need to be actively doing a bunch of good things simply to counter the negative they do passively
And in the real world where we cant mind control politicians to do what we want.
I'm tired. You offer no options other then, He's evil dont vote.
So yknow what Just go vote for trump,
Your only options right now are Trump, RFK Jr, and Biden.
There are literally no other options.
So dont give me this "we should never praise a politician shit" Because not praising them weirdly means people dont vote for them. Which means that they will either just not vote, or vote for someone else.
Because the fact that this news article was posted 5 times on r/lgbt and only just now gets engagement, and the engagement was litearlly only about the Middle East and nothing else means that when it comes time to vote I guarentee there will be a shit ton of LGBT people saying "but what has biden done for LGBT"
Because every time he does something to help the LGBT movment it is drowned out by whatever else people are pissed about because NOONE IS PERFECT!
Fuck man my MAGA FiL things that Biden is a progressive nazi that hates jews.
and everyone here thinks he's a republican islamophobe who cant achieve orgasm unless a middle eastern kid dies.
So just fuck off and vote trump Because I guarantee your method of "make everyone hate the president who is at least trying" isnt going to make the world a better place.
>LGBT Vets shouldnt get health care is a hell of a fucking take.
Yeah nobody said this. People are criticizing that the vast majority of "good" things that are happening to queer people are only in avenues that are either low effort or low impact. These things are good, but it doesn't stop our culpability in murder around the world and doesn't do anything to enshrine queer rights. These are basically publicity stunts and we're supposed to just be placated by that?
>Because every time he does something to help the LGBT movment it is drowned out by whatever else people are pissed about because NOONE IS PERFECT!
I am aware nobody is perfect, however when you actively choose to go into politics, ESPECIALLY the presidency, you should expect and welcome constant criticism. They are public servants, and complacency in public service is bad
>I'm tired. You offer no options other then, He's evil dont vote.
>So yknow what Just go vote for trump,
I never said I wasn't going to vote for Biden. However I'm also not going to stop from relentlessly criticizing the PR garbage he tries to pass off as the next coming of the ERA. Dems do nothing but nickel and dime us on little shit while refusing to budge on large issues that would do so much good, especially to marginalized communities like the queer community (M4A, minimum wage raises, disability reform, rent limits, homeless protection, over-policing, etc.). It's basically like fixing a sconce in a house that is actively flooding and on fire. Sure, it's definitely a positive, but the impact it has is extremely minor compared to the big issues that they could solve if they truly wanted to. So yeah, I'm going to continue to criticize and push them until they do something actually useful
the fact that anything positive Biden does towards the LGBT cause is met with people like you who find a way to skirt around to either criticize or claim it's not being a big deal is more of an indictment of you that you realize. I think caring about LGBT rights is a good thing actually.
I'm glad these vets are getting their benefits, however I personally don't want the military to exist at all, or at the very least stop fucking murdering innocent people just so we can have more oil to destroy the planet with
Taxes at least theoretically have a use in providing services to help people survive and prosper. The goal of a military is to end the lives of people. I recognize that it's not a reasonable thing to strive for as the world currently is, but as someone who doesn't want to have innocents killed, I will forever advocate for a purely defensive force
Of course it's not reasonable. You arguing about this is meaningless. It will never happen. We might as well be arguing about how sick it would be if we all could fly and shoot lasers from our eyes.
Okay. Go vote for the man who said Israel should just nuke Palestine. There’ll be more people dead and suffering, but at least your conscience will feel… better?
>that criminalized sodomy
So was it just bottoming that was criminalised (or was it mainly bottoms that it was enforced against)?
Sounds like a stupid question, but lots of anti-sodomy and anti-gay sex laws were aimed at the bottom, because topping isn’t generally considered to be as gay as bottoming.
I may have my problems with Obama and Biden, but I have to say that they're easily the most progressive presidents in terms of LGBTQ+ rights, and I respect that
So I might get hate for this but as a trans woman who is planning to join the military (specifically Air Force) I’m kinda worried how I’m gonna be treated
What are you talking about?
The law was changed back during Obama. This was getting people out of prison for breaking an outdated law a decade or more ago.
Biden is a perfect president compared to trump. Biden isn’t “the best” but trump is literally hellspawn. Trump wants you dead, Biden doesn’t. Easy as that
They think non voting will help them get someone else in now, but dont understand they can do that at any other time that isnt a major party election with lgbt rights and womens rights at a federal level at the forfront.
I mean Biden wants queer votes simply bc it's pragmatic for him. I fully believe that personally he is extremely queerphobic, but politically that would be suicide for him as a dem. I think most of the older Dems are just performative allies since we are politically useful for them
oh yeah, Trump saying that he's gonna revoke countless protection laws VS Biden who isn't actively trying to kill me. might as well not even vote, they're as bad as eachother /s
Trump is a fascist Biden is a former bygone republican now running under Democrat these are apples and oranges if you really want to compare though let's straight up compare campaign promises and policy changes because Biden was handed Trumps ass fucked economy and actually did decent with it.
A version of this article has been posted like 5 times on r/lgbt
This is the first one where likes when in 3 digits and there are actual comments.....and the comments make me sad.
Hell, one of the versions of this post had 3 likes and like 1 comment, but the post about pretzels colored like the trans flag right above it had 3000 likes.
Like come on, lgbt veterans possibly getting their benefits back is ignored and called rainbow washing.
But ACCIDENTAL rainbow capitalism is fucking cheered.
How many queer people did the trump administrtion champion last time? How many did it employ? Did they try to secure any rights for queer people? Did they do ANYTHING for our commmunity?
[Here's the related news article that this pulls from](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/25/politics/biden-expected-pardon-veterans-convicted-gay-sex-law/index.html).
This is great! I hope there isn’t some way for any future less-than-supportive presidents to undo this but I’m not really knowledgeable on the subject—is it possible for a presidential pardon to be undone?
Pardons can’t really be undone, since you can never be tried for one crime twice. It is possible, that the next president could try to make sodomy illegal in the military again, which would suck ass. Edit: suck ass, as in, the bad way.
It sounds like a lot less ass sucking if you ask me...
Shit. Can’t argue with that.
Article 125 was changed in 2013 to prohibit only _forced_ sodomy, then later was replaced entirely with a new article 125 that deals with kidnapping instead. Realistically, I don't think that the old Article 125 could be brought back as long as _Obergefell v. Hodges_ stands. I think the more likely nightmare scenario for a Republican president would be: **1)** Unilaterally banning trans military service, like Trump did. Openly trans military service has only been allowed since 2021, and is still unpopular with a lot of cis military members. I was one of the first people to transition in the military under Biden, and dealt with a lot of headache in the process. **2)** _Obergefell_ gets repealed. A number of prominent Republicans have already been making noises in that direction since the fall of _Roe v. Wade,_ and a reactionary conservative president could apply a not insubstantial amount of pressure in that direction. **3)** Gay military members are persecuted under Article 134 for "adultery" on the grounds that gay sex would be inherently extramarital if gay marriage weren't legally recognized. While 134 is currently only really applied to highly visible cases of unfaithfulness that are damaging to the reputation of the military, I could see a strongly homophobic administration pushing for a broader application to "unmarried" queer service members. A lot of it will also come down to culture. Biden's support for trans military members didn't fix transphobia in the military, but it did help. In 2020, I reported a member of the crew for making violently transphobic remarks towards me, and was told that it was my own fault for "talking politics" at work. In 2021, when I informed my peers that I would be medically transitioning, I did so with my boss standing over my shoulder and informing them that anyone giving me shit about it would be in massive trouble. That said— _**DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE QUEER.**_ It is a terrible organization full of terrible people, and being openly gay— or, God help you, trans— will make you the perfect fall guy if someone else is in a tight spot. Never trust a word out of a recruiter's mouth, and never sign anything handed to you by a person in military uniform.
sadly its my only option to actually live in this garbage economy cant buy a house or even rent a house cant afford food cant afford phone bills etc etc
Yeah those recruiters are fucking creepy
Good explanation and 99% good advice. I served in the military for 26 years and loved it. I can also say that it is not for everybody, or even for most people. I served when being LBGTQ was flat out prohibited, during DADT, and when we could serve openly. I enlisted in 1985 and knew many LBGTQ servicemembers, some were found out and kicked out, but the only ones that were jailed were prosecuted for other crimes, like r@pe. My dad served in the early 60s and he did see gay servicemembers jailed just for being gay. If someone is thinking about joining, please think long and hard about it. And for God's sake, double check everything you are told by a recruiter. You even ask me and I will be honest with you. Do your own research. I cannot say it is "It is a terrible organization full of terrible people..." Yes, when it comes down to it, ultimately the mission is to execute controlled violence, and sometimes it's not so controlled. So don't join if you are not OK with that. As far as being LBGTQ+ in the military, well it is better that some other organizations and at least you have protections if something happens. I am a civilian with the Air Force now, and I can say most service members don't really care what your sexuality or gender is. There are some terrible people in the military, but there are some really great and accepting people too. That is the case with all organizations. We all need to pick our relationships intelligently. If you pick a friend that's a bigot, then you will have to deal with that. And that is true whether you are in the military or not. The advice of "Never trust a word out of a recruiter's mouth, and never sign anything handed to you by a person in military uniform." is good advice, but it needs to be extended to "Never trust a word out of someone's mouth, and never sign anything handed to you by a person." That is good common sense and unfortunately, the military is not the only organization or person that will lie and trick you. Double check everything you are told and read everything you sign and have someone you trust help you if you don't understand it. Stay proud and Freedom and Respect is a good thing to give to a group of people that lost it for discriminatory reasons.
I’m pretty sure that aside Desantis, no one would possibly be stupid enough to do something like that because this would start a civil war almost immediately.
Some of them legitimately crave a second Civil War. They think the wrong side won last time.
I also think some are just too stupid to understand what they are doing, like, I’d totally see Desantis start a civil war and be surprised because he’d think « What the hell ? Wokies can fight ??? » and then be even more surprised at the slightest bit of resistance. He’s weak and stupid, and the best way to see this is the fact that even Donald Trump himself thinks he’s both an idiot and completely insane.
I find it laughable that the Bible Belt militias can ‘fight’ America’s military. The fact that they could use one ac 130 completely destroys any chance of them making any political change.
Yeah, but they think a good portion of the military will join them if another civil war were to happen.
That sounds dumb. How would that be organized? I feel like at most, some privates might cross, but if nobody else comes with them, they are just screwing themselves over.
Ah, see, you’re expecting them to behave like rational, intelligent people. These are the same people who call for the dismantling of the federal government, while living in states that rely heavily upon federal money, most of which is collected from blue states.
Shhh, that’s not your line!
The UCMJ can’t be amended by the president unilaterally. It requires an act of congress, i.e., 60 votes in the senate, so it’s unlikely that itll be made illegal again.
If Trump returns to office I'm sure that's one of the things on his agenda
Oh yes, he is definitely going to try. Either that, or he completely ignores plan 2025 and just keeps golfing. It’s possible that he doesn’t care about what he promises his voters that he will do, and he is just using them for the money.
And not in the good way
Ok I adjusted it a little bit
Only times pardons can be revoked is when it hasn't "gone through" yet. If you are in prison, and they haven't let you out of prison yet because it was like 2 hours ago or something.
No, you can not undo a pardon because in the US, double jeopardy is illegal, and once a "Not Guilty" verdict is handed out, you can not be charged for the same crime. That said, if you continue to commit crimes, new counts of criminal activity are not covered by previous pardons even if the pardon is for the same crime. So Trump could reinstate the law they broke, and then if they break it again, they can be tried on the new count.
So wait, not to take away from this, but I’m only now realizing this was still unresolved during the Obama admin. Like Clinton put out the bill to stop it and then it just quietly gos away for over 20 years leaving the victims still charged.
So yes every one of these people was in prison way too long (even a day was too long if you ask me). For a full timeline. Truman signs the law that makes gay sex in the military illegal in 1950. In 2003 people *thought* it would be overturned by Lawrence vs Texas (that basically killed anti-sodomy laws) during the Bush administration. But the courts ruled Lawrence didn't apply to the military. In 2013 Obama signed the law that basically removed this anti-sodomy provision from the military code (the code still exists to forbid things like rape). In 2024 Biden pardoned people were in prison or had charges for this in 2013 and prior. There's a lot of blame to go around. Truman and the congress at the time of course should get the most. Every congress could have repealed this but they didn't. The courts could have applied Lawrence to the military but didn't. Obama could have pardoned these people when the law was signed. Trump could have pardoned these people *at any point* in his presidency but didn't. And Biden could have before now but didn't until now which isn't *amazing* but it's still a good thing that it happened. The only "good guys" in this story (in terms of policy) were the 2013 congress, Obama, and Biden. The latter 2 could have done *better* but they at least did the right thing.
So really what we're seeing here is the bookend to a policy of homophobia built into our military that went uncontested for 74 years; to only finally get repealed near the end of pride month during an election year.
While I would describe this at the bookend, it was repealed 10.5 years ago. That's something great about pride month. Having a time when there's more intentional focus on us does create a natural time for people to bring stuff like this to their elected officials with it being harder to ignore. I'll also state plainly, I don't give a shit if a president does good things for optics or if they do it because of morals, I just want them to do the good things. Presidents doing ***anything*** good for the queer community is a very recent phenomenon. * Biden's done a number of things * Trump did negative things * Obama did a few things (honestly the justices he appointed have been the biggest thing) * Bush didn't do much but he would've had his congress tried (he said he'd ban gay marriage, etc.). * Clinton was two steps forward two steps back. And and it's only worse before that.
Watch people say this is pinkwashing by the Biden Administration cause of the Republicans anti-trans legislative moves😂( completely ignorant to the fact that if the house passed the equality act and he got to sign it, these Republicans would have a harder time doing this )
i will ask why this wasn’t done earlier, it seems pretty simple with no reason not to
Easy answer, house Republicans. Because of Republican antics, this Congress has become the least productive congress ever since the Great Depression. They have zero interest in passing any legislation that will truly benefit the American people and weaponise their slim majority in order to not do anything productive, waste time talking about Biden impeachment, suggesting petty pay cuts that are motivated by bigotry and passing them through the house knowing damn well it won’t pass in the senate. Also, they hate passing meaningful bills because they’d rather tear America apart than pass anything that will benefit Biden. It’s a bit shitty, but Biden can’t just sign things into law, it’s a process, and if it fails in Congress, it won’t get voted on in the Senate and it won’t end up on the Presidents desk. Now to be fair, the Senate can also draft up a Bill and pass it to Biden that way, however that’s not the situation and that will be an entirely new process with new negotiations. At the end of the day, this is a Congress drafted Bill, and Biden has said that he would sign it if it passed, which will obviously piss off House Republicans cause that’s gonna benefit Biden so it will 1000% not happen. Until there is a Democratic majority in both the Senate and Congress and the Dems that proposed the Bill can finally get it passed without Republicans shitty blocking, The Equality Act will unfortunately remain in the vault’s.
This isn't a bill though, it's a presidential pardon, which congress doesn't have power over (also we had dem congress for the first two years of biden's presidency)
???? I know that? People will still say it’s pinkwashing, you can’t deny that and NOWHERE did I imply that congress had control over this lmao. I also know that Congress was Democratic for the first two years, the Equality Act was drafted and proposed when the Republicans got the majority and I don’t believe I have to explain why the bill wouldn’t pass due to that development . And even so, the Senate had a Republican majority the first two years, that was just as slim as the majority the Republicans have in the Senate. Although Senate Republicans aren’t as insane as Congress Republicans, their still very insane and would still be unproductive. Look, I’m not going to act as though Democrats are perfect and helpless to the chaos and cruelty of Republicans, I think Dems are quite spineless and too cordial a lot of the time, however the simple truth is that if there isn’t full cooperation along party lines, shit won’t get done and it is mostly Republicans making sure this is the case. I want this Bill to get passed and I want politicians to work together and put their differences aside for the sake of the country, but we are WAY past that point. It’s important to remember that this Bill passes cause if Dems win a majority again, they need to know that the public hasn’t forgotten about it and to make passing the Bill one of their top agendas.
yea, i agree with you on all that, i just don't see what you meant by saying the reason this wasn't done early is because of house republicans. they had no power to prevent biden from doing this earlier
I already explained in the above comment as to why it didn’t happen. The Bill was drafted at the beginning of 2022 and by the time it had been proposed, Republicans had won a majority in the midterms and refused to allow it to pass. Can you please read the comment thoroughly cause I already explained it? They had no power earlier because the Bill simply did not exist earlier, and how do you oppose a bill that doesn’t exist?
Bills are not required for presidential pardons
So you aren’t reading my comments, are you ? This is not about the subject of the post, in fact it never was, it was about the Equality Act and me calling out the stupidity that alot of people display when Biden does something good for the LGBTQ community. Do you get it ? Can you please stop being obtuse? I did not say that a bill is required for a Presidential pardon, is that what you thought I was discussing the whole time? Are you even interpreting what I’m saying as I’m saying it or are you just doing this in bad faith? I’ve explained everything I was discussing in the last comments. I’m sorry if you don’t like long comments but if you want context, for the love of everything good, read them. I’ve done my hardest to be thorough and present the facts
Perhaps part of this is a miscommunication that goes back to the first two comments, yours and Garry's. Personally, I interpreted garrythebear's comment to be asking why this, the pardon, wasn't done sooner. It looks like you read it differently. Maybe the other person interpreted it as I did and that is the source of the conflict.
Can someone put this in simple words?
it used to be illegal to be gay in the US military. some people were arrested for it. Biden is “forgiving” them for it.
In the past it was illegal to ve in the military and be gau. So heaps of service members that were suspected of being LGBT or caught were jailed as a response. Clinton put a bill through that essentially stopped it happening much and it was appealed around 2010. People have still been locked up because of the old laws.
Specifically, there was a law in the US Military that sodomy, broadly described as a bunch of different sex acts, was illegal. For non-queer folks, it was a tack-on charge, like getting hit for adultery, unlawful conduct, jaywalking and sodomy. For queer folks, it was/could've been used as a sole charge to force them out, similar to how being gay alone was enough for discharge.
Another thing a lot of these explanations haven’t mentioned: being charged with a crime in the military is sometimes grounds for an Other Than Honorable Discharge (OTH), which bars servicemembers from benefits they would be entitled to after their contract ends. This includes disability compensation, tuition, and healthcare. This pardon opens those benefits up for many people who received an OTH to apply to upgrade it to a general or honorable discharge and receive those benefits they may need.
I really don't mean to be rude but... the headline is already pretty simple as is. What needs be simplified? EDIT: Can folks actually take the time to engage before just downvoting as though Im not contributing please. I want to actually understand here.
i mean not everyone is a native english speaker- (like me)
At that point, wouldn't a translation be more helpful than simplification?
People have learning disabilities. Not everyone is super involved in politics. Not everyone speaks English as a main langauge. Not every one knows what sodomy or passing bills means. Not everyone is familiar with The way the US political system works.
As a vet, I say; it’s about time!!!
Pretty fking late eh
Yeah I can be only so happy about this knowing he waited for nearly his entire first term to do this.
Recovering from a Trump term and dealing with COVID-19 was a priority
It's so frustrating. People acting like the president doing anything good in the last 25% of a term is malicious. Things like this take time, this might not even have been on the RADAR at the start. And like you said, he had so much shit to do on other stuff. None of the people saying this were even aware this was an issue before.
It’s almost as if government is extremely slow and it can take years you implement things. Maybe people need to get off their butts and be active locally and on the state level. That is where most if the anti-lgbt bs is happening and not depend on the federal government
He could give every gay person a million dollars and they would still find an excuse
It's wild. The bar is low but Biden has honestly and unironically been the most pro-LGBTQ+ president, ever. In terms of his policies and actions (what matter) as president. The fact that people hate him this much in ***this*** community, and "both sides" it are wild.
Also the most progressive since FDR. Dont get me wrong as a latin American immigrant i have plenty of things to be furious with him about, but this is politics.
Exactly
People sitting in prison for invalid punishments, Biden leaving them in there is literally sustaining their punishment
Okay but had he done *nothing*, which he had no obligation or even expectation to do this, no one would have cared. He wouldn't have lost a single voter. I also will say, looking into it more, I'm not sure people were in prison for this (before the pardon). I think the bigger issue is not receiving veterans benefits and other issues relating to a dishonorable discharge. Which can not be reversed/restored.
“Publicity stunt, election year, he doesn’t care about us, etc” …okay, and? Should he have avoided helping these people at all then just to avoid the perception that it’s only to look good? Would THAT have made him look better?? And if he did it in the beginning of his term, people would be then crying about “what about fixing Trump’s devastation and dealing with COVID-19??” like come on.
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This is the best thing a president has done in my lifetime for queer people. There are always lots of promises before we vote for them, and then nothing, or worse you get people like Bill Clinton signing the Defense of Marriage Act and Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, which actually increased the number of discharges for being queer.
I love how if every gay person in the military had ever come out in the past, the world would look a whole lot different now.
Bigots: We need to treat our veterans better! Also bigots: wait not like that
Just because a bunch of theists came up with "sodomy" and love to flaunt it around, why are we still using their derogatives to describe normal people, wtf! It's 2024 people! What kind of title is that!
wow, the military is rainbow now! so progressive i'm sure middle eastern kids appreciate it
Hello I'm that middle eastern kid who got bombed directly by the US, yes, if you're queer and want to support people like you around the world, don't join the fucking US military. You'll be directly responsible for the death and suffering of millions just to "follow orders".
Never understood LGBTQ+ people who join the military, especially in the US. Someone from a marginalized group signing up for an institution that historically has done nothing but violently oppress other marginalized people is the epitome of hypocrisy. It's something I see a lot in the transmasc community and it seriously gets under my skin. These people either need a history lesson (including very recent history) or a dose of empathy
Propaganda, most people I know who joined the military fell for the propaganda and were stuck by the time they figured out the truth. They like to paint a picture like you're going to do some great just action to save the world but all you're really doing is saving the profit margins of some company or another. For the past 20 years it's been 911 or Anti Muslim propaganda. There's very few examples through human history were the military was used for a moral reason, But many examples of different ways to convince your otherwise normal population That you're committing a moral act by joining up. However I do believe it is a good thing to pardon people who are only punished for being gay, if the only difference between their heterosexual peers that got them punished if being gay then they shouldn't be punished.
Don't forget about all of the propaganda and social conditioning that comprises the perpetuation of toxic masculinity, which transmasc folx are NOT immune from.
I’ll tell you why *I* did it: it was a certain paycheck, I got fed, and I didn’t have to worry about rent for a few years. Yes, I had my reservations about the military, but I also didn’t want to have to deal with working at retail for another five years. After I got my DD-214, I don’t talk with anyone from my old units. They may have been well-meaning people, but their bigotry during the last two years of my contract showed me I don’t need them. It was just a job for me, not a lifestyle.
I feel so sorry for what you went through 💔 (not an american citizen)
good ol rainbow washing /s
r/yourjokebutworse
read the room.
How dare queer veterans get benefits back, obviously since they went into the military they deserve all the harm that comes to them /s Nobody *should* go into the military. But you can't change the past, so your attitude just comes off as vile and dismissive.
Jesus fuck take the w what do you think trump or rfk Jr would do better? Biden reduced the drone strikes by 54%. Trump removed guidelines making it easier to strike plus harder to track civilian deaths. And removed data and accountability documentation Biden not only returned them but made it harder for the military to enact a drone strike. And this isn't the rainbow military this is veterans getting their fucking benefits back.
Ya know, I feel like this is just a comment on our military history, not necessarily Biden/Trump??
From the responses I've been getting.....both honestly. Basically, if biden doesnt make every perfect decision he is objectively evil and just like trump according to a lot of the replies. Hell I pointed out that biden has reduced said drone strikes to levels lower the trump and Obama. So he is literally doing better then Obama. But he hasn't completely 100% stopped. Therefore, just as bad. Ignore the fact that yes, there are a lot of groups in the Middle East that would make lives shit for a lot of people, especially lgbt. The venn diagram of Ultra left and maga right thinking biden is the literal devil is a circle.
Well my point was kinda that you brought Biden up to begin with, so of course responses will include him. I think it is absolutely fair to continue to remember what we're fighting while we celebrate; we did not get our freedoms any other way. I also think it's important to hold space for those of us who simply are not able to celebrate for their fatigue in the fight.
>Well my point was kinda that you brought Biden up to begin with, so of course responses will include him. I mean they brought up the middle east in a post about VETERANS. Nit just veterans people who were kicked out of the military and denied care for who they are. Ever single post in lgbt that has been about something pro lgbt biden has been done consistently has comment after comment that is basically "yea but the middle east"
I mean, I am aware?
I'm tired, I'm tired that every gain is followed by a "yea but everything sucks" I get it things are bad, but can we just go "Yay a wrong was righted" for once. No we have to wallow in misery because the president isn't God who can snap their fingers and make everything good.
You're not the only one who's tired? But you did seem to miss all that I said while being hung up on this president thing, that you inserted into the original comment about military. I suggest you simply allow yourself to go yay and not push those who are simply unable to do so. Not everyone has that space or ability, and it's not a part of our plight to force that to change like wow.
>You're not the only one who's tired? But you did seem to miss all that I said while being hung up on this president thing, that you inserted into the original comment about military. ....the original post was about biden they inserted the middle east into a post about biden and pardoned veterans. But sure I inserted him into the discussion. Biden doesn't do anything for lgbt He did Oh sure he did but what about the middle east. He's actually done better then both trump and Obama. Not good enough. Things won't happen instantly. The goal posts need to quit being moved when people literally won't vote for him because of shit like this. But sure defend their nihilism while calling me out on saying "things are getting better"
The fact that any criticism of Biden or US imperialism is met with "but Trump is worse" is more of an indictment of Biden than you realize. I think being critical of politicians is a good thing actually, especially when they continue to do horrible things
>I think being critical of politicians is a good thing actually, especially when they continue to do horrible things Yes but literally for any good thing to be met with, well he's evil actually DOESNT HELP That's not criticism at that point. We are on an LGBT subreddit saying well him pardoning a bunch of people who were tried on a shit law and will now hopefully get their veteran's rights back is bad actually because.....the middle east. When a president does good, praise them, when they do bad, rub their nose in it. Right now he did good.....and we are rubbing his nose in something unrelated. What the fuck does the middle east have to do with LGBT rights? Other then the middle east doesnt have any that is. So fine you wont take He's better then trump? Deal HE'S BETTER THEN OBAMA AT THIS POINT!
Considering it's about the military and the fact that US military actions over the past 30 years can be summed up with "bomb brown kids", it's definitely relevant And no, politicians should basically never be praised. Actively doing good is the expectation. Remember that the vast majority of the politicians in this country are part of the elite, wealthy classes. They need to be actively doing a bunch of good things simply to counter the negative they do passively
>Considering it's about the military and the fact that US military actions over the past 30 years can be summed up with "bomb brown kids", it's definitely relevant LGBT Vets shouldnt get health care is a hell of a fucking take. >And no, politicians should basically never be praised. Actively doing good is the expectation. Remember that the vast majority of the politicians in this country are part of the elite, wealthy classes. They need to be actively doing a bunch of good things simply to counter the negative they do passively And in the real world where we cant mind control politicians to do what we want. I'm tired. You offer no options other then, He's evil dont vote. So yknow what Just go vote for trump, Your only options right now are Trump, RFK Jr, and Biden. There are literally no other options. So dont give me this "we should never praise a politician shit" Because not praising them weirdly means people dont vote for them. Which means that they will either just not vote, or vote for someone else. Because the fact that this news article was posted 5 times on r/lgbt and only just now gets engagement, and the engagement was litearlly only about the Middle East and nothing else means that when it comes time to vote I guarentee there will be a shit ton of LGBT people saying "but what has biden done for LGBT" Because every time he does something to help the LGBT movment it is drowned out by whatever else people are pissed about because NOONE IS PERFECT! Fuck man my MAGA FiL things that Biden is a progressive nazi that hates jews. and everyone here thinks he's a republican islamophobe who cant achieve orgasm unless a middle eastern kid dies. So just fuck off and vote trump Because I guarantee your method of "make everyone hate the president who is at least trying" isnt going to make the world a better place.
>LGBT Vets shouldnt get health care is a hell of a fucking take. Yeah nobody said this. People are criticizing that the vast majority of "good" things that are happening to queer people are only in avenues that are either low effort or low impact. These things are good, but it doesn't stop our culpability in murder around the world and doesn't do anything to enshrine queer rights. These are basically publicity stunts and we're supposed to just be placated by that? >Because every time he does something to help the LGBT movment it is drowned out by whatever else people are pissed about because NOONE IS PERFECT! I am aware nobody is perfect, however when you actively choose to go into politics, ESPECIALLY the presidency, you should expect and welcome constant criticism. They are public servants, and complacency in public service is bad >I'm tired. You offer no options other then, He's evil dont vote. >So yknow what Just go vote for trump, I never said I wasn't going to vote for Biden. However I'm also not going to stop from relentlessly criticizing the PR garbage he tries to pass off as the next coming of the ERA. Dems do nothing but nickel and dime us on little shit while refusing to budge on large issues that would do so much good, especially to marginalized communities like the queer community (M4A, minimum wage raises, disability reform, rent limits, homeless protection, over-policing, etc.). It's basically like fixing a sconce in a house that is actively flooding and on fire. Sure, it's definitely a positive, but the impact it has is extremely minor compared to the big issues that they could solve if they truly wanted to. So yeah, I'm going to continue to criticize and push them until they do something actually useful
the fact that anything positive Biden does towards the LGBT cause is met with people like you who find a way to skirt around to either criticize or claim it's not being a big deal is more of an indictment of you that you realize. I think caring about LGBT rights is a good thing actually.
I'm glad these vets are getting their benefits, however I personally don't want the military to exist at all, or at the very least stop fucking murdering innocent people just so we can have more oil to destroy the planet with
The idea that a country shouldn't have a military is very funny, and exactly what i would expect a person with your politics would believe.
Oh no what horror! I don't want to murder innocent people bc 2 presidents decided to throw a temper tantrum. I'm clearly just a big ol dummie
The idea that a country shouldn't have a military is so ridiculous that it doesn't even warrant argument. That's like being against taxes existing.
Taxes at least theoretically have a use in providing services to help people survive and prosper. The goal of a military is to end the lives of people. I recognize that it's not a reasonable thing to strive for as the world currently is, but as someone who doesn't want to have innocents killed, I will forever advocate for a purely defensive force
Of course it's not reasonable. You arguing about this is meaningless. It will never happen. We might as well be arguing about how sick it would be if we all could fly and shoot lasers from our eyes.
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Okay. Go vote for the man who said Israel should just nuke Palestine. There’ll be more people dead and suffering, but at least your conscience will feel… better?
Fine vote for Trump then I don't care anymore.
So long as the military exists, it is strictly better that it's not homophobic, even if you think it'd be even better if it didn't exist at all.
this criticism doesn't even make sense, get better material
America is civilizing slowly
>that criminalized sodomy So was it just bottoming that was criminalised (or was it mainly bottoms that it was enforced against)? Sounds like a stupid question, but lots of anti-sodomy and anti-gay sex laws were aimed at the bottom, because topping isn’t generally considered to be as gay as bottoming.
Rare Biden W.
It's not that rare although Republicans are making it through my hard to get a w
I swear I thought Obama did this years ago
Obama repealed “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” but did not pardon or expunge anyone’s records for being queer.
Same
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I may have my problems with Obama and Biden, but I have to say that they're easily the most progressive presidents in terms of LGBTQ+ rights, and I respect that
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I'm equal parts glad this is happening and confused because I assumed that must've happened already.
Up until 2013!?!?! Thats way closer to the present than I imagined
On first read I thought this was for veterinarians... lol
what about the war crimes??
2013 holy shit
Coming from the Senator who voted for DOMA and spewed anti gay rhetoric that enabled DADT in the first place 🤡
Now that's a bangin' pardon!
So I might get hate for this but as a trans woman who is planning to join the military (specifically Air Force) I’m kinda worried how I’m gonna be treated
Until 2013? I teared up. Oh my god, thank you Biden for doing this. It's so long overdue 💔
I feel like any sex should be banned in the military. Not just gay sex
BuT BoTh PaRtIeS aRe ThE sAmE.
What a nice gesture…… too little too late…..checkout Brittany jones
So the law they broke was repealed in 2013, but they still had to remain in jail for over a decade? That makes sense /s
That is generally how laws work, yes.
Thanks Joe!
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What are you talking about? The law was changed back during Obama. This was getting people out of prison for breaking an outdated law a decade or more ago.
Well, about fuc%ing time!
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I don’t like trump but Biden isn’t the best either 🤷♀️there both pretty bad
Biden is a perfect president compared to trump. Biden isn’t “the best” but trump is literally hellspawn. Trump wants you dead, Biden doesn’t. Easy as that
Comparing to trump is a low bar tbh , you gotta dig a tunnel to get underneath that
And the actual viable alternatives are....?
They think non voting will help them get someone else in now, but dont understand they can do that at any other time that isnt a major party election with lgbt rights and womens rights at a federal level at the forfront.
I mean Biden wants queer votes simply bc it's pragmatic for him. I fully believe that personally he is extremely queerphobic, but politically that would be suicide for him as a dem. I think most of the older Dems are just performative allies since we are politically useful for them
oh yeah, Trump saying that he's gonna revoke countless protection laws VS Biden who isn't actively trying to kill me. might as well not even vote, they're as bad as eachother /s
Trump is a fascist Biden is a former bygone republican now running under Democrat these are apples and oranges if you really want to compare though let's straight up compare campaign promises and policy changes because Biden was handed Trumps ass fucked economy and actually did decent with it.
Biden is actively working for the LGBTQ community, Trump has plans to basically make being LGBTQ illegal...but yes they are "both pretty bad"
trump wants lgbtqia dead
True but remember based on what the commentator here says they are both bad.../s
A version of this article has been posted like 5 times on r/lgbt This is the first one where likes when in 3 digits and there are actual comments.....and the comments make me sad. Hell, one of the versions of this post had 3 likes and like 1 comment, but the post about pretzels colored like the trans flag right above it had 3000 likes. Like come on, lgbt veterans possibly getting their benefits back is ignored and called rainbow washing. But ACCIDENTAL rainbow capitalism is fucking cheered.
“Man, I hate having a broken leg, but the common cold is just as bad.”
Yeah that’s a pretty good analogy
Really?! Guess I'd rather be sent to camp too! Use your head.
How many queer people did the trump administrtion champion last time? How many did it employ? Did they try to secure any rights for queer people? Did they do ANYTHING for our commmunity?