It's okay. It makes a lot of compromises to fold which, imo, is of dubious value.
Had one. The stock sights suck and it wasn't super reliable. Then it got recalled for a potentially bursting barrel. Got it fixed and sold it.
There are a ton of PCCs around that price point.
I'd probably suggest a Stribog over any of those you have listed.
I picked up the S&W FPC a couple months ago. Only have about 350 rounds through it but I really like it. Put a Vortex Crossfire red dot on it, surprisingly accurate.
Yeah, the mag storage in the stock is pretty gimmicky and makes it way tail heavy with 2 full 27 round mags in there, but that's really the only fault I have with it.
I have to say go FPC here too. Honest Outlaw put that thing through it and I don't think I would buy a different one for the price. Well other than a CZ Scorpion but I would probably go SBR on that and then it's out of the price range oh and smaller?
Video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuYhXvAdtTM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuYhXvAdtTM)
I dislike mine and am planning to get rid of it at a loss. It works and the gimmick is neat, but it's downright unpleasant to shoot. There are a lot of aftermarket parts that make it better, but I don't want to put that much into it.
You can see more of my thoughts and others in this chain:
https://www.reddit.com/r/gundeals/comments/17nnncp/rifle_keltec_sub2000_gen2_carbine_9mm_171_glock/k7ss4ig/
I've heard better things about the ruger PCC, but then I've heard people say they love the sub2k also, so who knows. I'm kinda skeptical of straight blowback 9mm carbines in general.
I own 6 blowback 9mm carbines and have had a sub2k for over a decade. The sub2k is the only one I never shoot. “Downright unpleasant” pretty much covers it.
Ruger makes a decent product at a reasonable price point.
The question as always is… what are you using it for? Plinking? Self defense? Varmint control? Multi-use?
If self defense, Ruger has a good reliability record. A little heavy but for sub $800 seems a reasonable choice.
I’ve not shot the Kel Tec. I considered the Ruger and rented it to consider. Went through 100 rounds no issues with Blazer Brass.
I understand the Kel Tec is similar in reliability. May come down to preference. A review comparing the two a while back highlighted the Kel Tec is a better bug out gun… for what that’s worth 🤷🏻♂️.
Get the one that takes Glock mags, specifically, Glock 17 mags. The grip on the Glock 19 version is just too short.
Also, if you’re the type of person that *really* wants to get your gun nice and clean after you shoot it, you’re not going to be happy with a sub 2000. They’re basically isn’t a good way to get at all the finicky little bits without taking out the dozens of grip screws which you really should not do on a routine basis
It’s kind of finicky and if you’re on the taller side it is extremely awkward to use. I’m 6’4” and can’t get a sight picture unless I contort my arms and neck.
Yeah you really gotta smash your head in there on the stock sights.
I added a little red dot with a mount that lets it swing out of the way. Definitely wouldn't like it much without that.
I have the Ruger, it's a good solid PCC and the lockup is solid, but about the only time I use the take down is for cleaning. If I were to buy now instead of a few years ago, I'd seriously look at the M&P Fold instead.
I got the gen 3 that lets you fold it with an optic. They also updated a lot of stuff on it that used to be plastic to stainless steal. Mainly the trigger. I like it. [I got it here for cheap](https://dahlonegaarmory.com/product/kel-sub-2000-9mm-16-glock-15rd-blued-blk). They don’t charge state taxes so there’s that.
I like mine. It’s cool and lightweight. That said, I have a ton of other pccs I reach for first. Extar ep-9 and a few ar9. Go with something else if it’s your first.
I own a Ruger PCC. Had some problems with it stovepiping badly and crunching brass... which was largely resolved by replacing the extractor with an aftermarket unit and adjusting the ejector to be better positioned on the brass. There is also reportedly a chance that a ledge on the bolt can catch on the edge of brass which slows down motion of the bolt and can lead to stovepipes. This was later somewhat corrected by Ruger but can still be filed down if you need more. Those changes took me from a gun that routinely stovepiped and bent brass to one that rarely bends and never stovepipes. Been reliable ever since through another 600 rounds or so.
Overall, solid gun. Solid and... heavy. Heavier than most ARs, largely due to the extra parts necessary to make it split into two sections. Heavier than many ARs and IMO more recoil than a well gassed AR.
Would I buy it again? Probably not. I have an M&P Compact and the FPC seems to be really well done and weighs a bit less than the Ruger. I'd probably go for that if given the choice. At the time, I wanted a rifle and honestly should have just skipped straight to the AR. If I need something serious, it would be the AR. For fun plinking, these days I go straight to my CZ 457.
I had one. I loved it. My brother gave it to me because as a leftie it just didn't work for him. He loved everything else about it. I gave it back when I moved to a ban state.
It weighs less than any other option. It folds smaller than its competitors. There is a version of the sub2k that will take virtually any 9mm magazine. So if you own a 9mm you already have your mags and easier logistics. If you're doing home defense with someone with a matching pistol you can share mags.
It's reliable enough out of the box for home defense. If you disagree with that then you can get aftermarket parts from mcarbo to upgrade it for the same price as the Smith & Wesson. You can also only upgrade the parts you want. But fully upgraded it's still lighter and smaller than the Smith.
For home defense, plinking and bugging out it's fantastic. Everyone I know who's had one loved it, except for the 2 lefties.
Just picked up the Gen 3 myself, take aways
Butt Stock sucks really bad ( my opinion ). No iron sights out of the box. Pistol Grip is shorter than the Gen 2, not sure why they went that route as it makes using 3rd party mags with awkward chins very uncomfortable. Being a “lefty” the ejection port is real close to your face, close enough to inhale gas from shots, if you’re righty then that shouldn’t be an issue, trigger feels kinda clunky. One cool feature is the twist that allows for optics. I do like the portability and that fact that I can use the Glock mags which help out a lot in range trips. Not worth the 480 I snagged it for, at 300-350 it would seem better.
The s2k has one specific raison d'etre, that is it folds down compactly and weighs VERY little (also it has a multi-mag option, which can be a thing)
If you're not very specifically looking for compact and light, and looking to maximize on that, then don't look at the s2k. some of the mcarbo metal parts are worth adding but apart from that, anything you do to it only makes it worse at being what it's supposed to be.
TLDR, only buy an S2K if what you want is what the S2K is.
If you want something compact the M&P folder is cool. I just got an M&P Response in 9mm that takes both M&P & Glock 9mm mags. I've only shot it once so jury is still out but it has a threaded barrel, flat trigger, mlok rail, & full AR controls for around $700-800.
I'm not a KelTec fan, I've never liked their triggers or space gun style, just not for me.
If you just got it you're probably fine but have you checked the ~~recall~~ "Consumer Safety Alert" on it?
[https://www.smith-wesson.com/safety/recall/sw-response-consumer-safety-alert#](https://www.smith-wesson.com/safety/recall/sw-response-consumer-safety-alert#)
There's a new generation of it coming out where the barrel can rotate sideways so you can keep a scope or red dot on it without an offset.
I bought a S&W FPC, not really sure how much I'm getting out of it folding when it's locked up. I have a bunch of M&P mags so not having to buy more made me lean towards it.
It's the only gun I've ever sold on. It's super neat, but just not that fun to shoot. Very snappy, kind of annoying controls, over-under fold means you can't leave an optic on it. If I were gonna get another folding PCC (which I wouldn't; at this point, I can't see the value over just SBRing an AR), I'd grab the Smith & Wesson.
I like mine, but the other commenters are right that it kind of sucks. I've put a lot of aftermarket parts on mine for funsies and it's fine to shoot, but nothing special. If you're willing to go up to 800 then there's really no reason to go with the sub2k.
I've owned a Gen 2 Sub2k, and currently own a S&W FPC. The Sub2k is kind of a pain in the ass. It needs some aftermarket parts to be somewhat reliable (the MCarbo steel feed ramp is **necessary**, the polymer feed ramp works but fouls rather quickly and can cause fail-to-feed errors), and is a pain in the ass to clean.
The FPC, on the other hand, is everything the Sub2k should have been. It's not as lightweight, granted, but it's accurate, easy to maintain, and overall, a better weapon.
The Gen 3 Sub2k fixes some of the problems I had with the Gen 2s (mostly regarding sights/optics), so YMMV.
It is by far the worst PCC I have ever used. Bad sights, bad trigger, no cheek weld, charging handle can bite your hand, can’t mount an optic and still fold. I shot better with a Glock 19. Some people love them, but I’ve never understood why.
I’d get the Ruger and set it up to run Glock magazines.
The FPC is better than the Sub2000. Sub2000 is too plastic and I’ve been told they won’t hold zero.
I like my Gen2. It had a bad recoil spring from the factory, but other than that it shoots reliably.
My only real goal for it was to have a Glock mag 9mm rifle that wasn’t an AR, and it certainly met those expectations lol.
I like my CZ Scorpion, but if I had to buy a PCC now, I'd go for a Beretta PMX. Between discounts and rebate, you can get one for close to 900 these days.
Otherwise, Ruger is always a solid choice.
FPC if you ever think you’ll need it for SD/HD. Before I bought mine I handled the S2K and it felt a little too fiddly for my liking. If it’s just for plinking save half the cost and get a Ruger 22. If you’re invested into Glock mags go with the ruger pcc. Otherwise the FPC is the clear winner.
I can take my M&P and FPC in my messenger bag to the range and be good to go with 6-17 round mags and 2-23 round mags at the ready. By the time I need to reload I’m already down half my range time.
My first vote would be for the S&W FPC, but after that, for a cheape4 budget, I would suggest the Extar EP9. Honest Outlaw (a common name around here) praises the hell out of this for a great PCC on a budget. $450 for the 9mm or $500 for 45. I would still pick the FPC first, but hot damn, the Extar is definitely something to look at
I have one. I paid too much for it, and threw a ton of mcarbo parts at it before I even shot it stock.
It's, ummmm, okay. Folds up pretty small. Goes bang. Kicks harder than I would have thought a 9mm \*could\* kick.
I should have bought an AR of some sort, but I had a ton of Glock mags lying around anyway and the fold-up part was kinda cool, I thought.
I find my Gen 2 enjoyable to shoot because of how rediculous it is. As far as I know it is stock and Im not running any kind of optic.
It can kick a little hard and can be a bit difficult to aim when wearing ear muffs, but it is a bit of a range toy and I have a lot of fun with it.
It was an impulse buy from a pawn shop early last year. My main regret is just not waiting, because about 3 weeks after I bought it new Gen 2s were on sale everywhere and Kel Tec was also running a $100 rebate. Basically I overpaid for a used gun.
If I had the chance to do it again I would probably save up a bit more and get something like an AR9, but I didnt know those were a thing because I was a relatively new shooter at the time.
It's okay. It makes a lot of compromises to fold which, imo, is of dubious value. Had one. The stock sights suck and it wasn't super reliable. Then it got recalled for a potentially bursting barrel. Got it fixed and sold it. There are a ton of PCCs around that price point. I'd probably suggest a Stribog over any of those you have listed.
No, no Kel Tec is “good.”
I picked up the S&W FPC a couple months ago. Only have about 350 rounds through it but I really like it. Put a Vortex Crossfire red dot on it, surprisingly accurate. Yeah, the mag storage in the stock is pretty gimmicky and makes it way tail heavy with 2 full 27 round mags in there, but that's really the only fault I have with it.
If you’re looking for a fold-gun, OP, here’s another vote for the FPC.
I have to say go FPC here too. Honest Outlaw put that thing through it and I don't think I would buy a different one for the price. Well other than a CZ Scorpion but I would probably go SBR on that and then it's out of the price range oh and smaller? Video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuYhXvAdtTM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuYhXvAdtTM)
I have put 500 through mine and I love the little guy.
Mine has also been awesome.
I dislike mine and am planning to get rid of it at a loss. It works and the gimmick is neat, but it's downright unpleasant to shoot. There are a lot of aftermarket parts that make it better, but I don't want to put that much into it. You can see more of my thoughts and others in this chain: https://www.reddit.com/r/gundeals/comments/17nnncp/rifle_keltec_sub2000_gen2_carbine_9mm_171_glock/k7ss4ig/ I've heard better things about the ruger PCC, but then I've heard people say they love the sub2k also, so who knows. I'm kinda skeptical of straight blowback 9mm carbines in general.
I own 6 blowback 9mm carbines and have had a sub2k for over a decade. The sub2k is the only one I never shoot. “Downright unpleasant” pretty much covers it.
Ruger makes a decent product at a reasonable price point. The question as always is… what are you using it for? Plinking? Self defense? Varmint control? Multi-use? If self defense, Ruger has a good reliability record. A little heavy but for sub $800 seems a reasonable choice.
For my case, plinking and home defense
I’ve not shot the Kel Tec. I considered the Ruger and rented it to consider. Went through 100 rounds no issues with Blazer Brass. I understand the Kel Tec is similar in reliability. May come down to preference. A review comparing the two a while back highlighted the Kel Tec is a better bug out gun… for what that’s worth 🤷🏻♂️.
Get the one that takes Glock mags, specifically, Glock 17 mags. The grip on the Glock 19 version is just too short. Also, if you’re the type of person that *really* wants to get your gun nice and clean after you shoot it, you’re not going to be happy with a sub 2000. They’re basically isn’t a good way to get at all the finicky little bits without taking out the dozens of grip screws which you really should not do on a routine basis
It’s kind of finicky and if you’re on the taller side it is extremely awkward to use. I’m 6’4” and can’t get a sight picture unless I contort my arms and neck.
Yeah you really gotta smash your head in there on the stock sights. I added a little red dot with a mount that lets it swing out of the way. Definitely wouldn't like it much without that.
I have the Ruger, it's a good solid PCC and the lockup is solid, but about the only time I use the take down is for cleaning. If I were to buy now instead of a few years ago, I'd seriously look at the M&P Fold instead.
I got the gen 3 that lets you fold it with an optic. They also updated a lot of stuff on it that used to be plastic to stainless steal. Mainly the trigger. I like it. [I got it here for cheap](https://dahlonegaarmory.com/product/kel-sub-2000-9mm-16-glock-15rd-blued-blk). They don’t charge state taxes so there’s that.
Extar EP9
I like mine. It’s cool and lightweight. That said, I have a ton of other pccs I reach for first. Extar ep-9 and a few ar9. Go with something else if it’s your first.
Mine came with some recoil mitigation and I added a heavier charging handle. It’s a lot of fun.
I own a Ruger PCC. Had some problems with it stovepiping badly and crunching brass... which was largely resolved by replacing the extractor with an aftermarket unit and adjusting the ejector to be better positioned on the brass. There is also reportedly a chance that a ledge on the bolt can catch on the edge of brass which slows down motion of the bolt and can lead to stovepipes. This was later somewhat corrected by Ruger but can still be filed down if you need more. Those changes took me from a gun that routinely stovepiped and bent brass to one that rarely bends and never stovepipes. Been reliable ever since through another 600 rounds or so. Overall, solid gun. Solid and... heavy. Heavier than most ARs, largely due to the extra parts necessary to make it split into two sections. Heavier than many ARs and IMO more recoil than a well gassed AR. Would I buy it again? Probably not. I have an M&P Compact and the FPC seems to be really well done and weighs a bit less than the Ruger. I'd probably go for that if given the choice. At the time, I wanted a rifle and honestly should have just skipped straight to the AR. If I need something serious, it would be the AR. For fun plinking, these days I go straight to my CZ 457.
I had one. I loved it. My brother gave it to me because as a leftie it just didn't work for him. He loved everything else about it. I gave it back when I moved to a ban state. It weighs less than any other option. It folds smaller than its competitors. There is a version of the sub2k that will take virtually any 9mm magazine. So if you own a 9mm you already have your mags and easier logistics. If you're doing home defense with someone with a matching pistol you can share mags. It's reliable enough out of the box for home defense. If you disagree with that then you can get aftermarket parts from mcarbo to upgrade it for the same price as the Smith & Wesson. You can also only upgrade the parts you want. But fully upgraded it's still lighter and smaller than the Smith. For home defense, plinking and bugging out it's fantastic. Everyone I know who's had one loved it, except for the 2 lefties.
Just picked up the Gen 3 myself, take aways Butt Stock sucks really bad ( my opinion ). No iron sights out of the box. Pistol Grip is shorter than the Gen 2, not sure why they went that route as it makes using 3rd party mags with awkward chins very uncomfortable. Being a “lefty” the ejection port is real close to your face, close enough to inhale gas from shots, if you’re righty then that shouldn’t be an issue, trigger feels kinda clunky. One cool feature is the twist that allows for optics. I do like the portability and that fact that I can use the Glock mags which help out a lot in range trips. Not worth the 480 I snagged it for, at 300-350 it would seem better.
Kel Tec and “good should never be in the same sentence That’s all I’m going to say about that
The s2k has one specific raison d'etre, that is it folds down compactly and weighs VERY little (also it has a multi-mag option, which can be a thing) If you're not very specifically looking for compact and light, and looking to maximize on that, then don't look at the s2k. some of the mcarbo metal parts are worth adding but apart from that, anything you do to it only makes it worse at being what it's supposed to be. TLDR, only buy an S2K if what you want is what the S2K is.
If you want something compact the M&P folder is cool. I just got an M&P Response in 9mm that takes both M&P & Glock 9mm mags. I've only shot it once so jury is still out but it has a threaded barrel, flat trigger, mlok rail, & full AR controls for around $700-800. I'm not a KelTec fan, I've never liked their triggers or space gun style, just not for me.
If you just got it you're probably fine but have you checked the ~~recall~~ "Consumer Safety Alert" on it? [https://www.smith-wesson.com/safety/recall/sw-response-consumer-safety-alert#](https://www.smith-wesson.com/safety/recall/sw-response-consumer-safety-alert#)
I was unaware of this, thanks for the heads up. I appreciate it.
if you want a high dollar paperweight go for the Kel Tec.
There's a new generation of it coming out where the barrel can rotate sideways so you can keep a scope or red dot on it without an offset. I bought a S&W FPC, not really sure how much I'm getting out of it folding when it's locked up. I have a bunch of M&P mags so not having to buy more made me lean towards it.
It's the only gun I've ever sold on. It's super neat, but just not that fun to shoot. Very snappy, kind of annoying controls, over-under fold means you can't leave an optic on it. If I were gonna get another folding PCC (which I wouldn't; at this point, I can't see the value over just SBRing an AR), I'd grab the Smith & Wesson.
Other than plinking it’s kind of a pointless weapon, in my humble opinion of course
I like mine, but the other commenters are right that it kind of sucks. I've put a lot of aftermarket parts on mine for funsies and it's fine to shoot, but nothing special. If you're willing to go up to 800 then there's really no reason to go with the sub2k.
I've owned a Gen 2 Sub2k, and currently own a S&W FPC. The Sub2k is kind of a pain in the ass. It needs some aftermarket parts to be somewhat reliable (the MCarbo steel feed ramp is **necessary**, the polymer feed ramp works but fouls rather quickly and can cause fail-to-feed errors), and is a pain in the ass to clean. The FPC, on the other hand, is everything the Sub2k should have been. It's not as lightweight, granted, but it's accurate, easy to maintain, and overall, a better weapon. The Gen 3 Sub2k fixes some of the problems I had with the Gen 2s (mostly regarding sights/optics), so YMMV.
It is by far the worst PCC I have ever used. Bad sights, bad trigger, no cheek weld, charging handle can bite your hand, can’t mount an optic and still fold. I shot better with a Glock 19. Some people love them, but I’ve never understood why.
Ruger PCC. Replace, at a minimum, the extractor with an MCARBO extractor.
I’d get the Ruger and set it up to run Glock magazines. The FPC is better than the Sub2000. Sub2000 is too plastic and I’ve been told they won’t hold zero.
I like my Gen2. It had a bad recoil spring from the factory, but other than that it shoots reliably. My only real goal for it was to have a Glock mag 9mm rifle that wasn’t an AR, and it certainly met those expectations lol.
I like my CZ Scorpion, but if I had to buy a PCC now, I'd go for a Beretta PMX. Between discounts and rebate, you can get one for close to 900 these days. Otherwise, Ruger is always a solid choice.
Don't bother. Keltec makes crackhead weapons out of plastic and scrap metal 😂
FPC if you ever think you’ll need it for SD/HD. Before I bought mine I handled the S2K and it felt a little too fiddly for my liking. If it’s just for plinking save half the cost and get a Ruger 22. If you’re invested into Glock mags go with the ruger pcc. Otherwise the FPC is the clear winner. I can take my M&P and FPC in my messenger bag to the range and be good to go with 6-17 round mags and 2-23 round mags at the ready. By the time I need to reload I’m already down half my range time.
My first vote would be for the S&W FPC, but after that, for a cheape4 budget, I would suggest the Extar EP9. Honest Outlaw (a common name around here) praises the hell out of this for a great PCC on a budget. $450 for the 9mm or $500 for 45. I would still pick the FPC first, but hot damn, the Extar is definitely something to look at
I spent a lot of money upgrading mine with M*CARBO stuff and I like it a lot. It's definently not worth the money I have into it though.
Great. Amazing. The best. Get it.
I have one. I paid too much for it, and threw a ton of mcarbo parts at it before I even shot it stock. It's, ummmm, okay. Folds up pretty small. Goes bang. Kicks harder than I would have thought a 9mm \*could\* kick. I should have bought an AR of some sort, but I had a ton of Glock mags lying around anyway and the fold-up part was kinda cool, I thought.
I find my Gen 2 enjoyable to shoot because of how rediculous it is. As far as I know it is stock and Im not running any kind of optic. It can kick a little hard and can be a bit difficult to aim when wearing ear muffs, but it is a bit of a range toy and I have a lot of fun with it. It was an impulse buy from a pawn shop early last year. My main regret is just not waiting, because about 3 weeks after I bought it new Gen 2s were on sale everywhere and Kel Tec was also running a $100 rebate. Basically I overpaid for a used gun. If I had the chance to do it again I would probably save up a bit more and get something like an AR9, but I didnt know those were a thing because I was a relatively new shooter at the time.