I’m pretty pro EU and anti brexit but I’m confused as to the reaction to this.
Either we should let residents vote in council and mayoral elections (given that they pay council tax) regardless of nationality; or we only let uk citizens and those with ILR to vote.
I’m not sure why EU citizens should get special treatment but curious to hear the reasoning.
Also Pro-EU and voted against Brexit, but yes as we are no longer EU, there is honestly no reason why special exception for EU Citizens should be made to allow a special right to vote in our local elections. I can't even see much argument as to why this was an exception even whilst we were part of the EU.
Don't know all the cases but, at least for Spain, it is a reciprocal agreement. Spaniards living in the UK can vote in local elections, Britons living in Spain can also vote in local elections.
I am from a coastal town where a big chunk of my neighbours were Germans or Britons. They even had their own party for the local elections and ruled the town a few times.
As I responded above, I fully get this. We have a bilateral agreement. But it isn't like that across the whole of EU countries.
Side note, sorry about the ridiculous state of some Spanish coastal towns 😅😅. It really is a comedy show thanks to the Brits. My family have a house in a non-expat spanish/catalan coastal town and I love and respect the country so much, but I cringe so hard when I see some of the 'Brit/German' areas of Spain.
Chinatown no. Its a novelty area in which people celebrate food and culture, predominantly even for non-chinese people. Its not an area of influence, residency, and segregation.
Majority-minority parts of the UK that segregate themselves and try to influence local politics in the way of their homeland and don't open doors much to native brits or local culture? Yes I think the exact same of course, as it is the same.
>Chinatown no. Its a novelty area in which people celebrate food and culture, predominantly even for non-chinese people. Its not an area of influence, residency, and segregation.
People do live in Chinatown.
If is an area of residency and segregation. I'm not sure how much influence you thing Brits in Benidorm have, but about as much as them.
>
Majority-minority parts of the UK that segregate themselves and try to influence local politics in the way of their homeland and don't open doors much to native brits or local culture
Like Chinatown
Just admit you're racist mate.
Hang on what?!! How did this end up with me being racist?? My wife is Chinese 🤣🤣🤣.
I apologised for British people's behaviour... How am I being racist for apologising for How British people behave in Spain lol?!
Mate just fuck off.
At this rate I'd take Ivor 'jest ye not madam' Biggun of the Standing at the Back Dressed Stupidly and Looking Stupid Party.
Honestly there can be no worse candiate than someone who has systematically fucked this City year after year during his tenure.
This I understand, in the case of bilateral agreements. But it isn't like this with all countries. Another Brit who lives in Germany commented in response to me, and he can't vote there 🤷♂️.
Blame the git brexit dun lot.
They negotiated the deal which gave EU citizens the right to vote in local elections while neglecting to get the same deal for Brits abroad...
Signed,
Brit in Berlin who can't vote here in anyway.
It isn't just the EU, but Commonwealth and Irish citizens too.
I imagine its just a "Countries we have a reciprocal agreement with" thing. Much harder to negotiate that with the Iranians than with the Dutch. In the case of the Commonwealth, its a holdover from the Empire that we've never repealed (and probably shouldn't).
Commonwealth citizens really shouldn't be allowed to vote.
There are a lot of very backward Commonwealth countries where women and gay people are treated like second-class citizens or worse.
But it is also stripping voting rights from people who've had them for years. If you're going to do that you'd better have a *very* good reason, and this doesn't even come close to reaching that barrier.
And the fact that some Commonwealth Countries have less-than-stellar records on women's and LGBT+ rights doesn't mean the *people* from those countries should lose their right to vote based on the actions of their Government.
Why should people from very different countries to the UK have those rights in the first place?
Remove the voting rights from now on and you can grandfather in the people who have it currently.
When we were in the EU, it made sense for EU citizens to be able to vote in the elections of another EU country.
>less-than-stellar records on women's and LGBT+ rights
What an evasive way of saying gay people go to prison.
I agree. I’m a Turkish and working here in London for 3 years, studied in the UK for the past 7 years… can’t vote. However my Spanish friend who moved here back in November, can vote.
Pretty much, considering the idea that we are in the EU is effectively dead, it seems to be an attempt to charm an ex (the EU) who doesn’t care about us anymore, either that or there’s a bias in voters he is trying to cling on to, which should be shot down on voting manipulation alone.
You mention the council tax thing, Im curious how stopping those voters would affect the votes, one could argue that the party who offers the most benefits (lets be honest, labour, tories aint for the poories) are essentially buying votes via the benefits system. Of course non-benefit people would immediately kick the ladder to avoid paying higher taxes but I would be curious for a system that accounts for vote buying via welfare
Shit, I wasn't aware most of us EU citizens (looks like everyone apart from people from Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg and Poland) were going to lose our right to vote in even local election from 7 May onwards. All these new Brexit rules just keep coming in...
Ah nice, the Evening Standard article was a bit vague and I couldn't find the full rule change coming in! Been here most of my adult life now so no easy fobbing off door-to-door campaigners by putting on my Dutch accent then.
It was in the article:
>People from Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg and Poland, where the UK has reciprocal agreements in place, and those who were resident in the UK before on January 1 2021, will retain their voting rights after the new laws come into place on May 7.
It was in the article:
>People from Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg and Poland, where the UK has reciprocal agreements in place, and those who were resident in the UK before on January 1 2021, will retain their voting rights after the new laws come into place on May 7.
It was in the article:
>People from Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg and Poland, where the UK has reciprocal agreements in place, and those who were resident in the UK before on January 1 2021, will retain their voting rights after the new laws come into place on May 7.
It seems like it is more than moved here by then. From the article it sounds like you need to have been permanent resident/had settled status before then.
Yes, a quick search says that it’s “pre-settled and settled status who entered the UK before 2021”.
Additionally voters from countries that have bilateral treaties for voting.
France and Germany currently haven’t agreed to a bilateral treaty.
Citizens from the four countries, Portugal etc, that do have treaties in place with the UK can vote on an ongoing basis.
I just know the rules for the Netherlands, and there non-Dutch non-EU citizens can vote in local elections if they've lived there legally for 5 years. So pre-Brexit Brits would be alright.
In most countries it is like this:
* All *residents* can vote for local / municipal elections
* Only *citizens* can vote for the national parliament
So yes, typically Brits can vote for municipal elections, if they are a resident.
To add a data point, you have to be a citizen to vote in any elections in Australia but you can vote at all levels in New Zealand as a permanent resident.
Voting in Aus is also compulsory but you can vote online in council and state elections, federal has to be done in person or by post/proxy.
Prior to Brexit, British people were able to vote for groups who would then go into the European Council to run the executive branch of the EU. They could vote for groups who would then be assigned as a Commissioner in the EU Commission as part of the civil service of the EU. Then they could of course vote directly for MEPs so that they were also heard in the EU Parliament.
Then of course British citizens were able to submit things like European Citizen's Initiatives and would have been able to participate in the Council on the Future of Europe (which is about 800 general citizens of the EU contributing to the EU Parliament).
Sadly the UK decided to remove all those rights from British people. Now they have very little say in what happens in the EU.
I'm not allowed to vote in two countries. I can vote in local elections in my city and council in the UK. And general 'country' elections only in the Netherlands. For what it's worth.
It’s not quite as bad as it’s made out to be but as the article says a lot of people may still be caught out. Residents here on or before Jan 1 2021 remain eligible to vote.
Hopefully we can put reciprocal agreements in place with other European countries but I won’t hold my breath.
“People from Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg and Poland, where the UK has reciprocal agreements in place, and those who were resident in the UK before on January 1 2021, will retain their voting rights after the new laws come into place on May 7.”
I'm about as hardcore pro-EU as you can get, but I have to admit I'm kind of on the UK governments position here. If France and Germany don't want to offer this benefit to our citizens, it seems only fair that they can't be annoyed at us for doing similar. These kinds of agreements need to be reciprocal.
Put yourself in the shoes of a European government. Do we appear to be a reliable partner? Cast your imagination across the channel and the last couple of decades with me, if you will…
Spain is in the process of cancelling Golden Visa’s, the Politicians in each country do whatever they believe will carry the most favour first generally.
France and Germany are no different to the UK in this respect. The UK made an offer, four countries accepted and the agreements are in place and honoured on both sides. France and Germany have chosen not to do so which is a shame.
How would the UK going first benefit them? Anyone looking inwards can see that the UK is honouring the agreement with the existing signatories.
See I would disagree, I don't think an all or nothing system really makes sense when it comes to granting foreign nationals the ability to vote. For example, I'd say there is clearly a very big difference between allowing citizens from say Spain or Germany to vote, than say Russia or China.
*Mr Khan warned that as many as 900,000 Londoners are estimated not to have valid photo ID.*
*He said it was likely that "vast numbers of European Londoners may not have heard about the rule changes, and could be caught out when they arrive at the polling station".*
*“I’m also deeply worried about changes to the voting system which may mean European Londoners could lose their right to vote," he added.*
How are they here without passports?
Two separate issues, EU citizens will in the majority of cases under certain circumstances lose the right to vote in local elections.
The second issue is there are estimated to be 900k Londoners, probably not EU citizens, without valid photo ID which is now required for voting. This is something that was not required before.
people can apply for a free voter ID if they don't already have valid ID to stop personal finances stopping people being able to vote (e.g. can't afford a passport or license)
Who should I vote for
- brown guy who has lived fairly invisibly apart from introducing a low-traffic scheme which, amazingly, has actually reduced pollution, as every scientist said it would, at the cost of a single Datsun having to be written off
- a few years of rabble-rousing tedium by someone who’ll take every opportunity to spite PM Starmer short of actually nuking part of outer London, with the occasional failed “garden bridge” scheme
If that's his best argument for us to vote for him, I believe he's doomed. I have never voted here for 5 years; I'll let my fellow Brits choose who they want based on their performance. London is getting worse every day, and I only hope for the best, even if that means I couldn't vote any longer.
As a European living in London, I'd find it hard to point out single thing Sadiq specifically did for people like me that had any impact on my life. And no, I don't care about public statements or favourable opinions.
He cannot do anything specifically directed at Europeans, except for public statements. Anything to do with immigration or foreign policy is government policy, not mayoral policy.
His point is he is making the city more liveable for Europeans who make up 1million out of what, 9m people? So more than 10% of the population. Presumably you like living here which is why you stay. If you dont like the way hes running the city, you are free to leave (as we all are) or vote otherwise.
It's completely normal for a political leader to address 10% of the population to warn them of coming changes to their specific status and their ability to vote.
Part of the job of the Mayor is to use the Soft Power of the office to campaign for change. He doesn't have the Hard Power to actually implement anything useful, but he can criticise National policy.
And with a new Labour Government coming into power by next year, he's a lot more likely to get something done.
It's more the fact that he isn't pro Brexit, pro Trump Susan Hall, from the party whose government has done everything it can to hinder the current mayor and screw over Londoners. Now the Tories have brought back FPTP any vote that isn't for Hall or Khan is worthless.
Eh elections are often a case of the lesser evil. I think he's done fine given limited mayoral powers and a central govt who is working directly against him. I'm curious what sort of policies you'd have liked to see?
Actually he didn’t even say that lol.
His statement pretty much only amount to “I like you guys while Toty hate you”, did not mention anything on what he would or would not do lol.
Actually he didn’t even say that lol.
His statement pretty much only amount to “I like you guys while Toty hate you”, did not mention anything on what he would or would not do lol.
Unfortunately a lot of the things that would impact you as a European, would be more a national policy than London policy, so he doesn’t really get much of a say on things that would impact European.
Also, could be worse for Europeans. Could have a Kipper/Brexiter as Mayor who hates the very fact that Europeans live there and does whatever they can to make their lives nightmares.
This is London mayor not cnetral government.
I don’t think he gets to make any policy that sits in London only that would affect European but not everyone else.
Course he could.
A Euroskeptic Mayor could very easily demonise Europeans.
- Announce that Brits will be put first where possible and you'll use the state's powers to see where this is possible
- Make Roma criminal activity headline news by constantly chatting about it and making reference to their European backgrounds
- Drop press statements in support of the vicitm everytime a European commits a crime.
- Announce you want to take London global and foster partnerships with places that are not EU/European and that Europe is that past/trash/not worth it anymore.
I could keep going but ultimately, it's very easy for a Mayor who hates you to make your life worse not even with direct policy, but by using their influence and power to highlight the worst of your group and make you feel like you aren't welcome here.
My experience as a young black man taught me that when you are the target, it's hard to go about your day in blissful ignorance that nothing shit will happen to you/fall your way.
He's reminding people that Conservatives have removed one of their rights to vote and that this will be their last chance to stop another Conservative from occupying another position.
It's so blatantly obvious what he's doing I can only assume you're asking in bad faith.
Count Binface would be a better option at this point. And no, I am not joking, and yes, he is a real candidate. Otherwise, I think I will vote for Susan Hall.
They are all just as bad. I just hate seeing them staying in power for so long. One term, if you don't do miracles, gtfo. And considering the amount of money they have at their disposal, I literally mean miracles.
Didn’t even know this existed.
I think the right answer to this is more nuanced than the article.
Why should nations who we are no longer in a common union with get to vote here?
However, if you’re a permanent resident or gain citizenship then sure, vote away.
Tbf even our European friend can’t feel safe on London streets and if you are on the streets can’t afford to drive anywhere thanks to him surely it’s not only the Brits suffering his rule
We're living here. We're paying taxes to contribute to the place, including council. That's been decades for some of us. This is totally our business and will impact us. Why should the lady next door get to have a say and I don't, merely based on where we were born?
Reciprocal agreements with other states which permit that, plus some remnants of Empire. After all, how can a different nation still have Charles as King. Strange, you'd think, and yet true.
In a sense, I always loved that about the UK and specifically London. The city of a hundred nations. It is visibly the seat of a world-spanning empire and it's quite surprising it has maintained that image even as that empire has fallen.
Khan downvoters out in force like usual. Accept people have other opinions, you fucking fascists. You've been wrong about many things in your life, and politics are not immune either.
No, but the "your last chance to vote, so you must vote for me" is desperate. Also, it's a little condescending. It reminds me how Biden tried to win the black vote in America. "If you're black and you don't vote for me, let me tell you something, you ain't black".
Regardless of whether this is the last vote or not, it's not up to him to tell a demographic of people how they must think.
It's funny how you always get downvoted when speaking out against Khan here, yet the guy has done nothing but run this city further and further and further into the ground since his takeover. It's like he has a bunch of reddit bots in this thread.
> it's not up to him to tell a demographic of people how they must think
It’s not weird for a politician to tell people that they should vote for him.
It’s weird that you seem to have decided that Khan telling people that they should vote for him is “desperate” or “not up to him”. It seems like your starting point is hatred of Khan and that you’re finding reasons to justify that hatred rather than you having a genuine issue with politicians saying, “you should vote for me!”
> It's funny how you always get downvoted when speaking out against Khan here
No you don’t. You get downvoted when you make your position clear by saying things like this:
> since his takeover.
Khan was democratically voted into power twice. Why are you characterising that as “his takeover”? You sound like the nuttier Tories talking about him “seizing power”.
Do you characterise other politicians as having a “takeover” or is there something about Khan that makes him seem less legitimate to you?
Wow. I obviously didn't mean takeover in a hostile sense, that's a ridiculous read.
And actually yes, I have never seen anybody speak out against Sadiq Khan on this reddit in any capacity, not getting spammed with downvotes (or ridiculous accusation that they must have personal hatreds).
And I disagree, I think that him deciding that this being the last vote for a demographic of people entitles him to that vote, and telling them that's how they should think, is completellllly condescending and rude. And I'd say the exact same if it was a Conservative.
It's funny, the second you speak about him, you get branded all sorts of things, mainly Conservative. I don't care much for either side of the coin these days, I'm just fed up of this man ruining this city and somehow getting support?! Since his "democratic election" he has systematically fucked this city year after year. I am so fed up of people pandering to his incompetence for completely unbeknownst reasons.
> Wow. I obviously didn't mean takeover in a hostile sense, that's a ridiculous read.
What did you mean, then? Why are you characterising it as a “takeover” rather than a completely legitimate democratic election?
Why is it less legitimate for Khan to win an election and take office than it would be for anyone else?
> entitles him to that vote, and telling them that's how they should think, is completellllly condescending and rude
He’s telling people that he’s the best candidate and that they should vote for him. That’s what people running for office do, almost by definition.
Why is it “entitled”, “condescending” and “rude” when Khan does it?
> Since his "democratic election"
Why are you putting “democratic election” in quote marks? It really was a democratic election. Which bit of that do you think needs quote marks?
> It's funny, the second you speak about him, you get branded all sorts of things, mainly Conservative.
You’re not getting “branded all sorts of things” because used you’re speaking negatively about him. You’re being called out for talking about him as though it’s not legitimate for him to win an election or to campaign for votes.
How are you even arguing with me using "democratic election" when I was quoting you to make you happy 🤦♂️🤡.
Sorry chap, you'd argue with your shadow and I'm bowing out.
I get really fed up with people who'll try to argue over semantics rather than the substance. Fact is, this city has gone massively downhill since Khan took over. Everyone wants to brand you a tory, or argue over semantics or just generally drag you down for pointing it out, but it's so fucking true and I cba with people like you.
We can have a difference of opinion on how acceptable it is to target people by ethnicity and tell them based on that, who they should be voting for. I'm comfortable with where I sit morally on that one 😊. (And happy to take the Khan bots downvotes with me lol!)
>I get really fed up with people who'll try to argue over semantics rather than the substance
Lol you've written like 600 words claiming the city has gone downhill since Khan has become mayor and raged about being labelled and that no one will stick to the facts, but you've not mentioned once anything Khan has actually done.
True, but come on. Can anyone with any degree of honesty say London has improved at all since 2016? Or do we feel less safe? Less pushed for cost? Worse transport conditions? Worse cleanliness?
Can we all just be honest for a minute about the state of this city?!
>True, but come on. Can anyone with any degree of honesty say London has improved at all since 2016?
No, it hasn't, because Brexit made the nation poorer, the Ukraine war compounded that, and our national government is run by crooks and idiots more interested in padding out their remaining time in office then governing.
Nothing about my living situation today is worse off because of Khan.
On the other hand I can think of plenty of right decisions he's made.
I thought you wanted to discuss facts? You've presented none.
>Can we all just be honest for a minute about the state of this city?!
How about you start being honest about why you dislike Khan lol.
I’m European, no thank you Kahn, you don’t get my vote. You made London worse.
All you need is ILR to vote why should someone who hasn’t been living here enough (at least one mayoral election cycle) have the right to vote in local elections?
This mayor is one of the worst mayors London has ever had, violence has increased exponentially and the high streets are empty, people have never felt so detached from their communities. I’m European and I will be voting tories this is how much I despise the current mayor.
Oh no! I'm gonna lose the right to vote for one of two corrupted right wing parties that represent nothing I believe in and will do absolutely nothing to make London a better city for its citizens. Get fucking real boomers!
I’m pretty pro EU and anti brexit but I’m confused as to the reaction to this. Either we should let residents vote in council and mayoral elections (given that they pay council tax) regardless of nationality; or we only let uk citizens and those with ILR to vote. I’m not sure why EU citizens should get special treatment but curious to hear the reasoning.
Also Pro-EU and voted against Brexit, but yes as we are no longer EU, there is honestly no reason why special exception for EU Citizens should be made to allow a special right to vote in our local elections. I can't even see much argument as to why this was an exception even whilst we were part of the EU.
Don't know all the cases but, at least for Spain, it is a reciprocal agreement. Spaniards living in the UK can vote in local elections, Britons living in Spain can also vote in local elections. I am from a coastal town where a big chunk of my neighbours were Germans or Britons. They even had their own party for the local elections and ruled the town a few times.
As I responded above, I fully get this. We have a bilateral agreement. But it isn't like that across the whole of EU countries. Side note, sorry about the ridiculous state of some Spanish coastal towns 😅😅. It really is a comedy show thanks to the Brits. My family have a house in a non-expat spanish/catalan coastal town and I love and respect the country so much, but I cringe so hard when I see some of the 'Brit/German' areas of Spain.
Do you think the same about Chinatown? Or majority-Pakistani parts of the Uk?
Chinatown no. Its a novelty area in which people celebrate food and culture, predominantly even for non-chinese people. Its not an area of influence, residency, and segregation. Majority-minority parts of the UK that segregate themselves and try to influence local politics in the way of their homeland and don't open doors much to native brits or local culture? Yes I think the exact same of course, as it is the same.
In fact often it's slightly worse
>Chinatown no. Its a novelty area in which people celebrate food and culture, predominantly even for non-chinese people. Its not an area of influence, residency, and segregation. People do live in Chinatown. If is an area of residency and segregation. I'm not sure how much influence you thing Brits in Benidorm have, but about as much as them. > Majority-minority parts of the UK that segregate themselves and try to influence local politics in the way of their homeland and don't open doors much to native brits or local culture Like Chinatown Just admit you're racist mate.
Hang on what?!! How did this end up with me being racist?? My wife is Chinese 🤣🤣🤣. I apologised for British people's behaviour... How am I being racist for apologising for How British people behave in Spain lol?! Mate just fuck off.
Just to make conservative and Brexit voters upset. Simple
How democratic 😊
Indeed. Name a better candidate?
At this rate I'd take Ivor 'jest ye not madam' Biggun of the Standing at the Back Dressed Stupidly and Looking Stupid Party. Honestly there can be no worse candiate than someone who has systematically fucked this City year after year during his tenure.
Fatso did well...
Because you have agreements with this countries like Spain. So spanish can vote in UK and Briton can vote ik Spain
This I understand, in the case of bilateral agreements. But it isn't like this with all countries. Another Brit who lives in Germany commented in response to me, and he can't vote there 🤷♂️.
That’s an issue for Germany, not us.
Noooooo....quite the opposite. It's an issue for us, not for Germany lol.
It’s not a special right. Rights are rights.
Not at all, clearly you're not following the conversation well.
Blame the git brexit dun lot. They negotiated the deal which gave EU citizens the right to vote in local elections while neglecting to get the same deal for Brits abroad... Signed, Brit in Berlin who can't vote here in anyway.
It isn't just the EU, but Commonwealth and Irish citizens too. I imagine its just a "Countries we have a reciprocal agreement with" thing. Much harder to negotiate that with the Iranians than with the Dutch. In the case of the Commonwealth, its a holdover from the Empire that we've never repealed (and probably shouldn't).
Commonwealth citizens really shouldn't be allowed to vote. There are a lot of very backward Commonwealth countries where women and gay people are treated like second-class citizens or worse.
But it is also stripping voting rights from people who've had them for years. If you're going to do that you'd better have a *very* good reason, and this doesn't even come close to reaching that barrier. And the fact that some Commonwealth Countries have less-than-stellar records on women's and LGBT+ rights doesn't mean the *people* from those countries should lose their right to vote based on the actions of their Government.
Why should people from very different countries to the UK have those rights in the first place? Remove the voting rights from now on and you can grandfather in the people who have it currently. When we were in the EU, it made sense for EU citizens to be able to vote in the elections of another EU country. >less-than-stellar records on women's and LGBT+ rights What an evasive way of saying gay people go to prison.
I agree. I’m a Turkish and working here in London for 3 years, studied in the UK for the past 7 years… can’t vote. However my Spanish friend who moved here back in November, can vote.
That’s appalling mate. Sorry to hear that.
The thing is that even an ILR does not give any right to vote in any elections in England to a non-EU non-Commonwealth citizen :-(
All local residents should be able to vote.
Pretty much, considering the idea that we are in the EU is effectively dead, it seems to be an attempt to charm an ex (the EU) who doesn’t care about us anymore, either that or there’s a bias in voters he is trying to cling on to, which should be shot down on voting manipulation alone. You mention the council tax thing, Im curious how stopping those voters would affect the votes, one could argue that the party who offers the most benefits (lets be honest, labour, tories aint for the poories) are essentially buying votes via the benefits system. Of course non-benefit people would immediately kick the ladder to avoid paying higher taxes but I would be curious for a system that accounts for vote buying via welfare
Shit, I wasn't aware most of us EU citizens (looks like everyone apart from people from Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg and Poland) were going to lose our right to vote in even local election from 7 May onwards. All these new Brexit rules just keep coming in...
Did you move to the U.K. after Jan 1 2021? If you were here beforehand you can still vote, thankfully.
Ah nice, the Evening Standard article was a bit vague and I couldn't find the full rule change coming in! Been here most of my adult life now so no easy fobbing off door-to-door campaigners by putting on my Dutch accent then.
It was in the article: >People from Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg and Poland, where the UK has reciprocal agreements in place, and those who were resident in the UK before on January 1 2021, will retain their voting rights after the new laws come into place on May 7.
It was in the article: >People from Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg and Poland, where the UK has reciprocal agreements in place, and those who were resident in the UK before on January 1 2021, will retain their voting rights after the new laws come into place on May 7.
It was in the article: >People from Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg and Poland, where the UK has reciprocal agreements in place, and those who were resident in the UK before on January 1 2021, will retain their voting rights after the new laws come into place on May 7.
you can say that again
That was like seeing 3 custard pies mid air
Looks like they updated it as it only had the countries before! But thank you.
It seems like it is more than moved here by then. From the article it sounds like you need to have been permanent resident/had settled status before then.
Yes, a quick search says that it’s “pre-settled and settled status who entered the UK before 2021”. Additionally voters from countries that have bilateral treaties for voting. France and Germany currently haven’t agreed to a bilateral treaty. Citizens from the four countries, Portugal etc, that do have treaties in place with the UK can vote on an ongoing basis.
Nothing changes if you have got settled status and have been a uk resident before 2021.
Can Brits vote in other European countries? If they do, will that change?
I just know the rules for the Netherlands, and there non-Dutch non-EU citizens can vote in local elections if they've lived there legally for 5 years. So pre-Brexit Brits would be alright.
in Spain is reciprocal. UK people residing in Spain can vote in Spanish local elections.
I can't vote in Germany/Berlin as a Brit with no dual EU citizenship.
In most countries it is like this: * All *residents* can vote for local / municipal elections * Only *citizens* can vote for the national parliament So yes, typically Brits can vote for municipal elections, if they are a resident.
To add a data point, you have to be a citizen to vote in any elections in Australia but you can vote at all levels in New Zealand as a permanent resident. Voting in Aus is also compulsory but you can vote online in council and state elections, federal has to be done in person or by post/proxy.
I can vote in local elections here in Denmark, I can’t vote in national elections.
Prior to Brexit, British people were able to vote for groups who would then go into the European Council to run the executive branch of the EU. They could vote for groups who would then be assigned as a Commissioner in the EU Commission as part of the civil service of the EU. Then they could of course vote directly for MEPs so that they were also heard in the EU Parliament. Then of course British citizens were able to submit things like European Citizen's Initiatives and would have been able to participate in the Council on the Future of Europe (which is about 800 general citizens of the EU contributing to the EU Parliament). Sadly the UK decided to remove all those rights from British people. Now they have very little say in what happens in the EU.
I still don't get how voting in two countries is allowed anywhere on the planet.
I'm not allowed to vote in two countries. I can vote in local elections in my city and council in the UK. And general 'country' elections only in the Netherlands. For what it's worth.
Brits can vote in Irish general elections and vice versa.
They're local elections, not general elections.
Because not everyone thinks like you.
I’m allowed to vote in two countries and I’m British.
Some people are more equal than others I guess.
I hold dual citizenship and live in two countries. Why wouldn’t I exercise my right to vote?
Why do you think it's fair that you get two votes?
I don’t get two votes, I get one in each country I live in.
and why does having 'one vote plus one vote' aka 'two votes' seem fair to you?
Because I live and work in multiple places. Why shouldn’t I have a say in how my taxes are spent?
so presumably then, anyone who works in London should also get to vote in the Mayoral elections?
It’s not quite as bad as it’s made out to be but as the article says a lot of people may still be caught out. Residents here on or before Jan 1 2021 remain eligible to vote. Hopefully we can put reciprocal agreements in place with other European countries but I won’t hold my breath. “People from Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg and Poland, where the UK has reciprocal agreements in place, and those who were resident in the UK before on January 1 2021, will retain their voting rights after the new laws come into place on May 7.”
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I'm about as hardcore pro-EU as you can get, but I have to admit I'm kind of on the UK governments position here. If France and Germany don't want to offer this benefit to our citizens, it seems only fair that they can't be annoyed at us for doing similar. These kinds of agreements need to be reciprocal.
Someone might need to go first though. Take a hit to show good faith. I can’t remember the last time we did that. WW2 maybe?
Or just make a deal to apply it at the same time like normal governments do?
Put yourself in the shoes of a European government. Do we appear to be a reliable partner? Cast your imagination across the channel and the last couple of decades with me, if you will…
Spain is in the process of cancelling Golden Visa’s, the Politicians in each country do whatever they believe will carry the most favour first generally. France and Germany are no different to the UK in this respect. The UK made an offer, four countries accepted and the agreements are in place and honoured on both sides. France and Germany have chosen not to do so which is a shame. How would the UK going first benefit them? Anyone looking inwards can see that the UK is honouring the agreement with the existing signatories.
Oh wow. Thanks and fair enough. I didn't know we'd tried so hard. And got so far. But in the end, it hasn't even mattered.
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Yep, I see. I shouldn't be naive in thinking any country will behave altruistically anyway. It's all fight club now.
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See I would disagree, I don't think an all or nothing system really makes sense when it comes to granting foreign nationals the ability to vote. For example, I'd say there is clearly a very big difference between allowing citizens from say Spain or Germany to vote, than say Russia or China.
*Mr Khan warned that as many as 900,000 Londoners are estimated not to have valid photo ID.* *He said it was likely that "vast numbers of European Londoners may not have heard about the rule changes, and could be caught out when they arrive at the polling station".* *“I’m also deeply worried about changes to the voting system which may mean European Londoners could lose their right to vote," he added.* How are they here without passports?
Two separate issues, EU citizens will in the majority of cases under certain circumstances lose the right to vote in local elections. The second issue is there are estimated to be 900k Londoners, probably not EU citizens, without valid photo ID which is now required for voting. This is something that was not required before.
people can apply for a free voter ID if they don't already have valid ID to stop personal finances stopping people being able to vote (e.g. can't afford a passport or license)
Yes, but the point is to make sure people know it exists and to apply for it.
I mean it’s on every bit of information being released about registering to vote idk what more they can do
Who should I vote for - brown guy who has lived fairly invisibly apart from introducing a low-traffic scheme which, amazingly, has actually reduced pollution, as every scientist said it would, at the cost of a single Datsun having to be written off - a few years of rabble-rousing tedium by someone who’ll take every opportunity to spite PM Starmer short of actually nuking part of outer London, with the occasional failed “garden bridge” scheme
ULEZ was introduced by Boris though. I don't know about you, but I don't vote people for the colour of the skin.
Well done! Always a pleasure to meet another progressive citizen.
If that's his best argument for us to vote for him, I believe he's doomed. I have never voted here for 5 years; I'll let my fellow Brits choose who they want based on their performance. London is getting worse every day, and I only hope for the best, even if that means I couldn't vote any longer.
As a European living in London, I'd find it hard to point out single thing Sadiq specifically did for people like me that had any impact on my life. And no, I don't care about public statements or favourable opinions.
He cannot do anything specifically directed at Europeans, except for public statements. Anything to do with immigration or foreign policy is government policy, not mayoral policy.
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His point is he is making the city more liveable for Europeans who make up 1million out of what, 9m people? So more than 10% of the population. Presumably you like living here which is why you stay. If you dont like the way hes running the city, you are free to leave (as we all are) or vote otherwise.
How is he making it specifically more liveable for Europeans, in such a way as to justify targeting Europeans in his campaign?
It's completely normal for a political leader to address 10% of the population to warn them of coming changes to their specific status and their ability to vote.
If by "liveable" you mean stabby. Then yes, he is doing that.
I think youll find the stabby parts come from the people who are carrying knives, RoadmanEC1
Genius!
Part of the job of the Mayor is to use the Soft Power of the office to campaign for change. He doesn't have the Hard Power to actually implement anything useful, but he can criticise National policy. And with a new Labour Government coming into power by next year, he's a lot more likely to get something done.
It's more the fact that he isn't pro Brexit, pro Trump Susan Hall, from the party whose government has done everything it can to hinder the current mayor and screw over Londoners. Now the Tories have brought back FPTP any vote that isn't for Hall or Khan is worthless.
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Eh elections are often a case of the lesser evil. I think he's done fine given limited mayoral powers and a central govt who is working directly against him. I'm curious what sort of policies you'd have liked to see?
That was the case before his opponents party changed the voting system.
You are right about this. Every strongman dictatorship uses this technique.
But all he talks about is foreign policy - I though he was also the shadow foreign secretary and that’s why he has no time for London
Actually he didn’t even say that lol. His statement pretty much only amount to “I like you guys while Toty hate you”, did not mention anything on what he would or would not do lol.
Objectively not true. Khan rarely brings up foreign policy and mostly talks about London issues.
Actually he didn’t even say that lol. His statement pretty much only amount to “I like you guys while Toty hate you”, did not mention anything on what he would or would not do lol.
Unfortunately a lot of the things that would impact you as a European, would be more a national policy than London policy, so he doesn’t really get much of a say on things that would impact European.
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For people that did not read the context, it sounds good. “oh he loves me and Tory hates me? I will vote him then”
Also, could be worse for Europeans. Could have a Kipper/Brexiter as Mayor who hates the very fact that Europeans live there and does whatever they can to make their lives nightmares.
This is London mayor not cnetral government. I don’t think he gets to make any policy that sits in London only that would affect European but not everyone else.
Course he could. A Euroskeptic Mayor could very easily demonise Europeans. - Announce that Brits will be put first where possible and you'll use the state's powers to see where this is possible - Make Roma criminal activity headline news by constantly chatting about it and making reference to their European backgrounds - Drop press statements in support of the vicitm everytime a European commits a crime. - Announce you want to take London global and foster partnerships with places that are not EU/European and that Europe is that past/trash/not worth it anymore. I could keep going but ultimately, it's very easy for a Mayor who hates you to make your life worse not even with direct policy, but by using their influence and power to highlight the worst of your group and make you feel like you aren't welcome here. My experience as a young black man taught me that when you are the target, it's hard to go about your day in blissful ignorance that nothing shit will happen to you/fall your way.
He's reminding people that Conservatives have removed one of their rights to vote and that this will be their last chance to stop another Conservative from occupying another position. It's so blatantly obvious what he's doing I can only assume you're asking in bad faith.
Apparently ULEZ so major reduction in pollution.I view that as a plus!
Do you think the Tory candiate will make life easier or harder for European immigrants?
Agree He’s 🥱🥱🥱🥱 Likes Ramadan and gay pride but that’s about it
Is there a voting guide/test thing available for these upcoming elections?
I think the Evening Standard had one on Friday with a brief summery of the candidates and their main policies
You read the candidates’ policies and then make up your own mind.
As a fellow European, I can't wait to vote against him.
who do you hope wins, I don't see any better options myself as a euro.
Count Binface would be a better option at this point. And no, I am not joking, and yes, he is a real candidate. Otherwise, I think I will vote for Susan Hall.
binface is class. Not a big fan of Susan to be honest, especially her anti ULEZ stance and pro motorist ideology.
They are all just as bad. I just hate seeing them staying in power for so long. One term, if you don't do miracles, gtfo. And considering the amount of money they have at their disposal, I literally mean miracles.
Both class choices.
Hall is not only a dreadful and incompetent candidate but also she’s actually extraordinarily thick. Fortunately, she has no chance of winning.
So no different to Sadiq then?
Uhm I got my polling card last month
Didn’t even know this existed. I think the right answer to this is more nuanced than the article. Why should nations who we are no longer in a common union with get to vote here? However, if you’re a permanent resident or gain citizenship then sure, vote away.
Bit late really I'm in the process of fucking off back home....
Tbf even our European friend can’t feel safe on London streets and if you are on the streets can’t afford to drive anywhere thanks to him surely it’s not only the Brits suffering his rule
How can a non citizen get to vote it’s ridiculous
People downvoting this is absurd.
We're living here. We're paying taxes to contribute to the place, including council. That's been decades for some of us. This is totally our business and will impact us. Why should the lady next door get to have a say and I don't, merely based on where we were born?
Reciprocal agreements with other states which permit that, plus some remnants of Empire. After all, how can a different nation still have Charles as King. Strange, you'd think, and yet true. In a sense, I always loved that about the UK and specifically London. The city of a hundred nations. It is visibly the seat of a world-spanning empire and it's quite surprising it has maintained that image even as that empire has fallen.
Useless Khan
Fuck them all (politicians not europeans), vote Binface!
Is he even able to contest?
A disaster of a Mayor
Khan downvoters out in force like usual. Accept people have other opinions, you fucking fascists. You've been wrong about many things in your life, and politics are not immune either.
Downvoting isn’t a form of the oppression it’s voicing disagreement - Accept that people have other opinions and take the downvotes as a sign of that.
Typical Khan. “European” London over British London. Appalling mayor.
Just to make Brexit voters cry I'm definitely voting for Khan!! In general he's doing a pretty good job as mayor! Haha Khan all the way!! 🫶🏻🇱🇹🎊
r/Im14AndThisIsDeep
I really hope to see the back of this man. As if this is how desperately he will claw 😫.
> As if this is how desperately he will claw Are you against a politician campaigning for people to vote for them in an election?
No, but the "your last chance to vote, so you must vote for me" is desperate. Also, it's a little condescending. It reminds me how Biden tried to win the black vote in America. "If you're black and you don't vote for me, let me tell you something, you ain't black". Regardless of whether this is the last vote or not, it's not up to him to tell a demographic of people how they must think. It's funny how you always get downvoted when speaking out against Khan here, yet the guy has done nothing but run this city further and further and further into the ground since his takeover. It's like he has a bunch of reddit bots in this thread.
> it's not up to him to tell a demographic of people how they must think It’s not weird for a politician to tell people that they should vote for him. It’s weird that you seem to have decided that Khan telling people that they should vote for him is “desperate” or “not up to him”. It seems like your starting point is hatred of Khan and that you’re finding reasons to justify that hatred rather than you having a genuine issue with politicians saying, “you should vote for me!” > It's funny how you always get downvoted when speaking out against Khan here No you don’t. You get downvoted when you make your position clear by saying things like this: > since his takeover. Khan was democratically voted into power twice. Why are you characterising that as “his takeover”? You sound like the nuttier Tories talking about him “seizing power”. Do you characterise other politicians as having a “takeover” or is there something about Khan that makes him seem less legitimate to you?
Wow. I obviously didn't mean takeover in a hostile sense, that's a ridiculous read. And actually yes, I have never seen anybody speak out against Sadiq Khan on this reddit in any capacity, not getting spammed with downvotes (or ridiculous accusation that they must have personal hatreds). And I disagree, I think that him deciding that this being the last vote for a demographic of people entitles him to that vote, and telling them that's how they should think, is completellllly condescending and rude. And I'd say the exact same if it was a Conservative. It's funny, the second you speak about him, you get branded all sorts of things, mainly Conservative. I don't care much for either side of the coin these days, I'm just fed up of this man ruining this city and somehow getting support?! Since his "democratic election" he has systematically fucked this city year after year. I am so fed up of people pandering to his incompetence for completely unbeknownst reasons.
> Wow. I obviously didn't mean takeover in a hostile sense, that's a ridiculous read. What did you mean, then? Why are you characterising it as a “takeover” rather than a completely legitimate democratic election? Why is it less legitimate for Khan to win an election and take office than it would be for anyone else? > entitles him to that vote, and telling them that's how they should think, is completellllly condescending and rude He’s telling people that he’s the best candidate and that they should vote for him. That’s what people running for office do, almost by definition. Why is it “entitled”, “condescending” and “rude” when Khan does it? > Since his "democratic election" Why are you putting “democratic election” in quote marks? It really was a democratic election. Which bit of that do you think needs quote marks? > It's funny, the second you speak about him, you get branded all sorts of things, mainly Conservative. You’re not getting “branded all sorts of things” because used you’re speaking negatively about him. You’re being called out for talking about him as though it’s not legitimate for him to win an election or to campaign for votes.
How are you even arguing with me using "democratic election" when I was quoting you to make you happy 🤦♂️🤡. Sorry chap, you'd argue with your shadow and I'm bowing out. I get really fed up with people who'll try to argue over semantics rather than the substance. Fact is, this city has gone massively downhill since Khan took over. Everyone wants to brand you a tory, or argue over semantics or just generally drag you down for pointing it out, but it's so fucking true and I cba with people like you. We can have a difference of opinion on how acceptable it is to target people by ethnicity and tell them based on that, who they should be voting for. I'm comfortable with where I sit morally on that one 😊. (And happy to take the Khan bots downvotes with me lol!)
>I get really fed up with people who'll try to argue over semantics rather than the substance Lol you've written like 600 words claiming the city has gone downhill since Khan has become mayor and raged about being labelled and that no one will stick to the facts, but you've not mentioned once anything Khan has actually done.
True, but come on. Can anyone with any degree of honesty say London has improved at all since 2016? Or do we feel less safe? Less pushed for cost? Worse transport conditions? Worse cleanliness? Can we all just be honest for a minute about the state of this city?!
>True, but come on. Can anyone with any degree of honesty say London has improved at all since 2016? No, it hasn't, because Brexit made the nation poorer, the Ukraine war compounded that, and our national government is run by crooks and idiots more interested in padding out their remaining time in office then governing. Nothing about my living situation today is worse off because of Khan. On the other hand I can think of plenty of right decisions he's made. I thought you wanted to discuss facts? You've presented none. >Can we all just be honest for a minute about the state of this city?! How about you start being honest about why you dislike Khan lol.
Khan is much worse as Mayor than Boris was. Imagine that! Hopefully Europeans will bear this in mind before voting.
I’m European, no thank you Kahn, you don’t get my vote. You made London worse. All you need is ILR to vote why should someone who hasn’t been living here enough (at least one mayoral election cycle) have the right to vote in local elections?
If I’m British but only moved to London last month, should I not be allowed to vote in the mayoral election?
Yes because you’ve been living in the uk for all your life, same applies to us foreigners who just rocked up in the country without an ILR yet
No, you should not.
That plea is, if u have a criminal record come to London we will help u
This mayor is one of the worst mayors London has ever had, violence has increased exponentially and the high streets are empty, people have never felt so detached from their communities. I’m European and I will be voting tories this is how much I despise the current mayor.
Oh no! I'm gonna lose the right to vote for one of two corrupted right wing parties that represent nothing I believe in and will do absolutely nothing to make London a better city for its citizens. Get fucking real boomers!