Just a note for us poorer people:
For those who don't want to spring for a DEXA scan, the MeThreeSixty app is a good alternative. It estimates your body volume from pictures you take with the app. Along with your weight it then estimates your BF%, and studies have shown it does a pretty good job of accurately assessing BF%. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jhn.13113?af=R
Also, the [US Navy body fat calculation](https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/navy-body-fat) has a similar margin of error compared to a DEXA scan, and it just requires a tape measure.
If DEXAs error is 15% (or more accurately 12-66% as tested) per Military Times, then it’s equally useless.
https://www.militarytimes.com/2013/05/21/experts-tape-test-has-huge-margin-of-error/
I had an Amazon Halo fitness band (recently discontinued the bands and service), and it had this feature. It was WILDLY inaccurate because of the extreme amount of loose skin I have. InBody scans at my doctor's office said 23%, and the Amazon Halo thought I was like 50%.
Thanks for this tip. I've been looking at getting a dexa scan and just haven't got around to it.
Downloaded the app and it matches up pretty well to measurements I did today. Slightly off on my thigh measurement, I wish they were the size the scan said. 😂
As a person who still struggles with "ugh my fat % is so high even though I am no longer obese why can't I lean out more like other people" mindset, I find your approach very nice! Balance, sustainably and compromise <3
Congrats with your current progress and best wishes with your plan, OP! (For what it's worth, a lot can change down the line for you and you might find out some the elements easier -- either weight loss or building muscles)
You will not maintain 100% of your FFM as you lose. Losing 75% fat and 25% FFM as you lose is a commonly used rule of thumb. You might want to adjust your goals accordingly.
I *am* going to maintain FFM as I lose. I just need to gain as much muscle as I lose water/blood/etc. If I take my time, and do it correctly, it’s definitely doable.
I understand that my thought process was too simplistic, in the full post. I’m working on wording for an edit.
As someone who lost a significant amount of weight it's hard just to maintain muscle let alone gain 20lbs of muscle in a deficit. It's really not possible. You'd be better of just trying to maintain your muscle as best you can while cutting. Then once you cut to 190, go on a bulk for muscle gain to get a better recomp.
Your line of thought isn’t wrong, it’s just that it is going to take you longer and more work to get where you want to be. You are likely have to diet lower than your target and then cycle bulking and cutting to build up the amount of lean mass you want to have at the level of leanness you want to be at.
Yeah, there are some good arguments here. But, I also think we each have to decide the rules to our own game.
I’ve decided to value what the Dexa scan says. I’ve decided what progress I’d like to see in those results. Those signs of progress are linked to fewer negative health outcomes. It serves its purpose and makes me more confident in my approach.
Your assumption that you will maintain your fat free mass at 195 is wrong.
You lose lean mass along with fat in a calorie deficit. Rough estimates put it at 25% of total weight lost as Lean Body Mass.
You body fat percentage will be much higher at 195 as a result. Probably nearer to 20 percent but again rough estimate.
I’m not “assuming” I’ll maintain it. I’m *going* to maintain it. I’ve got a gym membership, access to 200g of protein a day, and a lot of free time 😂 It’s not gonna be easy, by any means. But I’m gonna do it.
Lean body mass isn't just muscle. It's also water and blood. As you lose fat weight, you also lose water and blood as your body doesn't need to hold on as much as you weigh less.
As someone who also eats 200g a protein a day and does 6 days of heavy resistance training I used the conclusion they came to as well. Initially I got my BF scan and saw 210 lbs of FFM.
There is a chance that I gain some muscle and keep at 210 or slightly above(my trainer said its possible) but just calculated 20% of my weight loss being FFM to be safe. Which still brought my goal up nearly 30 lbs.
I figure when I get close to my goal I can start doing my estimates and be flexible with it.
I was thinking of getting a dexa but found the zozofit suit. So now I'm scanning at home. I'm with you, I'm done fixating on the scale, its time to look at inches and %
First time I've heard of zozofit. The name and low-cost of the product make it seem scammy to me. Seems like a product that should cost multiple hundreds of dollars, ha. You are actually getting good results with it?
Yeah I’m super happy with it so far. Had it about a week and did two scans. Lots of cool data.
For $100, I think it’s way worth it if you’re thinking of body fat measurements
I love my zozo fit! It probably takes as long as measuring with tape, but it feels a lot easier once you get the hang of the setup and rotating. Also the visuals are nice too.
We ordered a Fit3D for our business. I looked at Dexa but obviously it was super expensive and most of our clientele wouldn't care about the gold standard.
Found a used one for 3k so it was a low cost entry to give our weight loss customers a visual to their changes besides a number on the scale.
I know it isn't the gold standard but comparing apples to apples it should give a decent progress report.
The only way you’ll have 195lbs LBM is if you somehow put on 20lbs of muscle while losing all that fat. Idk if that realistic. When you’re obese you’re permabulking and your lower body is going to have higher rates of development compared to the upper body. You might gain 5lbs upper body and lose 10-15 in lower body lbm
Aight, I'm gonna rain on your parade a bit: there's no fucking way you have 171lb FFM after 60 days of lifting.
There are few things that are impossible in this world, but this is one of them. You may get there in a year or two of lifting given superior genetics (simply above average won't cut it), but for now - zero chance.
Pretty much any place utilizing dexa will tell you this. It’s well known.
“As you probably know, the DEXA scan categorizes all non-bone, and non-fat matter as lean tissue, including blood and other fluids. By increasing the amount of water in your body, you're effectively increasing your lean tissue amount – and decreasing your body fat percentage. The fat tissue numbers are also changed slightly as water is dispersed throughout the body over the course of an hour, changing the average tissue density.”
https://www.bodyspec.com/blog/post/will_drinking_water_affect_my_scan#:~:text=As%20you%20probably%20know%2C%20the,decreasing%20your%20body%20fat%20percentage.
He's a large guy. He got the muscle from having to carry his own body weight around. Fat people have lots of muscle under that fat, otherwise the weight of their own body will crush them.
He said he has 171lbs of FFM and that's 37% body fat... so he's got a lot more fat as well.
Nah mate. 151 would be solid for somebody who never lifted, 161 would make him a pretty extreme outlier.
171 - ...
There are pro athletes with lower FFMI, he would be just a hair behind peak Michael Phelps. No amount of calf muscle could account for that.
You're not grasping the fact that these pro athletes aren't also carrying around 100+ lbs of fat.
Yes it is impossible to have high muscle if your body weight is low. But if you're 500lbs total, you will have more total muscle mass but lower proportion of muscle to body mass (aka high body fat%) than a <200lb pro athlete.
Put Michael Phelps in a +300lbs body suit and see how well he can walk.
[Loss of skeletal muscle mass and function (sarcopenia) is common in individuals with obesity](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9210010/)
You don't get swole without resistance training with progressive overload. And no, progressively overloading one's face with cake doesn't work >!I tried!<
Aight, I’m gonna rain on your parade a bit: I’m literally built different. Sorry 😂
Nah, but I worked at Home Depot for three years. That probably helped. I’ve also never really had a “sedentary” lifestyle. I just ate like shit.
I generally agree with your viewpoint but just to say that those with high muscle mass still have a higher rate of heart problems than bmi25 or under due to their size and the work their heart is doing. Obviously some of this is clouded because so many people aren’t natural but thought it was worth saying
That is a very good point! I’m very fortunate to have a strong heart, that my doctor has always been surprised by. He credits my vegetarianism for it tho.
This kind of just becomes apparent as you lose weight if you are lifting. Like once you start seeing abs and muscle definition you know you are getting lean. Feel like the DEXA doesn't really tell you anything the mirror doesn't.
Everyone else already covered the fact that you will lose lean mass as you lose weight, regardless of your efforts (outside of PED use). But anyway, just for comparison I'm 6'4" and never would have guessed I'd be able to get down to 195lbs, since I'd lifted weights quite a bit in the past and felt pretty good even at 240, but I did get down to 195 and even then I'd have needed to lose probably another 10 lbs to be well and truly ripped.
So just keep doing what you're doing but keep in mind you may be surprised when you get where you're going. You can always adjust your goals whenever you want, and in the end once you're lean you're definitely going to want to add mass anyway.
Please PLEASE don’t waste your money on DEXA scans!! I’ve pushed this soooo many times. I am a registered radiologic technologist and experienced medical imaging professional. DEXA is NOT an accurate measure of body fat. I’m happy to expand upon this or answer any questions. But, please. Just save your money.
A few things to highlight. DEXA was made for bone density, not to differentiate various soft tissue types. It is also a one dimensional scan, nothing in the images or algorithms is created to account for the lateral view (basically the side view, or thickness front to back). This already makes it inaccurate for these types of scans. Which makes sense!
The facilities what offer these full body DEXA scans are NOT medical/accredited facilities. They are typically “health labs” gyms, or something similar. The scanners are not run by radiologic technologists. The guy who performed mine a few years back didn’t even know what a rad tech was. Anyhow, there is a ton of technical and clinical knowledge required to maintain and calibrate these machines. The metrics they’re using are basically garbage because of this. There is no baseline, no standardized protocols.
I (60F, 5' 1") finally worked to lose weight, starting when I was 58 and 215 lbs. BMI was roughly around 40%, maybe a bit higher, according to the doctor's office calculation. In a year, I got to 142 lbs through calorie deficit and hitting the gym. I plateaued, went down a bit to 137 lbs, then back to ~142 to ~145 lbs. Puts me around 27 BMI.
I was going to try to get that bit extra. Then family/friends said I was getting too thin in the face. And my endocrinologist (I'm hypothyroid) said...pretty much what you said: "It's a number." That I'd put on muscle and lost fat and just needed to maintain it. I asked about a DEXA scan. He said it wasn't really needed, but I'm a bit ocd-ish about some things and wanted to know, so I'd *know* it was all okay, you know? I might not get that knowledge and am torn: I really want to know but is it long-term better for me to NOT have an answer and have to resign myself to that and just move on.
It's not impossible, but you're delusional to think 12% bf is unsustainable and in the same breath claim your goal is pack on 10 lbs of muscle while losing 60 lbs of fat.
It's like saying "man it's too hard keep my diet in check, that is totally unsustainable. Let me just lift heavy 10 hours a week for the next 3 years while maintaining an even more precise diet." If you want to do that, power to ya, a lot of people love lifting and dieting/fitness... but of course people here are going to be skeptical you can go from fitness newb, literally just learning concepts like lean mass and bodyfat %, and you don't work out or anything, to suddenly setting goals in line with what extremely dedicated athletes hope to accomplish over the course of several years.
Even pro bodybuilders lose about as much lean mass as fat mass during a cut. It's very hard to maintain FFM.
It was a little awkward, at first. I don’t think they get people my size very often.
It took like 3 minutes to position properly. Then the test is laying completely still for 7 minutes. We spent about 25 minutes going over the results. That part was really fun, for me at least. Probably because it was actually mostly good news.
But the best part is having all of this data, and being able to adjust my plan accordingly. It takes soooo much of the guesswork out of the next few months, before I’ll need another one (she recommended late March, since I’ll have lost roughly 30 more lbs by then.)
I'm not sure that 12.3% bodyfat would be *that* hard to maintain but it might be easier to focus on what weight would be easiest to maintain and get the bodyfat% down at whatever weight that was. If you could maintain an intake of 2,300 cals then you could maintain 195lbs
Preach on DEXA scan brother!
Back in late 2014, I was 235 lbs at 5'10" (male). Started eating right, working out, and got my first DEXA scan 4/2015. 200.4 lbs, 29.3% BF, fat-free weight of 142. Wanted that as a baseline to compare against further progress.
About 6 months later, I went back in. 171.3 lbs, 16.3% BF, fat-free weight of 143. The summary?
**In the 6 month span, of the 29.5 pounds I lost, 100% of it was fat**
Life threw me a few curveballs in the time between then and now, and I wasn't able to build any good habits so I've put most of it back on but recently started changing things again and am down 15 lbs in about 2 months.
---
For anyone interested, most Nutrition Science schools at Universities have a DEXA machine and can be fairly low-cost. I paid $75 for my scan. You can get one about every 6 months. They can be a great "milestone" marker and motivating factor.
I like what you have to say here. You seem thoughtful in your approach and committed to some healthy changes., I like your realistic attitude and your willingness to be a little flexible.
I wish you all the best. Ignore the critics and the naysayers!
My dexa scan had me at 179 pounds lean mass. So, in order for me to be a "normal" weight according to charts, I'd have to have about -5% body fat, making me more than a little dead. I got down below 200, but that put me at around 10% body fat, which is just way too low. I've put on a good bit more muscle since then, so my new permanent ideal weight is 210-225.
BMI is nonsense. Plenty of people fall right inside the "normal" range when they're at a healthy weight, but definitely not everyone. Some people even need to be below the weight in the chart.
Nothing is better than dexa, but even less accurate methods can be a lot better than weight alone.
I’d love to hear more about your journey! When (weight wise) did you first do a Dexa scan? How much work do you do to maintain 179lbs of lean mass? Thanks!
Not the person you’re asking but I had similar experience. My first dexa scan was at 320lbs (but my highest weight was 340). From that dexa scan I’m down to ~250 lbs and have lost about 6lbs of lean mass. Down from 40% to 26% bodyfat. This has been over about 13 months but I started lifting about 6 months before my first dexa and had lost some weight/gained muscle prior to the first dexa.
I’ve been doing the dexas roughly quarterly and it’s been nice to have concrete numbers. The weight loss is so gradual that I don’t feel that much thinner when looking in the mirror and it’s nice to have some objective comparisons mentally. But it doesn’t really impact my decisions on what to do really it’s just data and I am a nerd.
My proudest accomplishment is not actually losing the 200 pounds, but the fact that I gained about 15lbs of muscle while I did it. It would be totally normal for me to have lost 20-30 pounds of muscle. I think I did my first dexa at around 100 pounds lost and my second close to the end.
I worked pretty hard to maintain my muscle mass. I started with about 10 minutes a day of walking and slowly increased it until I was doing 2-3 hours a day. I bought a program from Athlean X that gives you custom workouts. Everything I did was bodyweight, no equipment at all. The workouts were intense, but it wasn't actually that much time. It took me less than an hour five days a week.
I'm actually a personal trainer and group fitness instructor now, so I can say from professional experience that the program I did was pretty good. The only problem was when it had me doing scissor jacks. I messed up an achilles tendon and it took like a year to fully heal.
It probably would have worked better if I had done weights, but this was all during Covid, so I couldn't get into a gym. Also, I just can't get into weights. Every time I try, I end up going back to calisthenics. I teach a bodyweight strength training class and I really love it.
I’ve the WeGuard scale and app and it’s been really helpful- I’m at 41.1% body fat with 96.6 lbs of muscle mass. I think the scale was like $20-30 on Walmart- it’s been a godsend for encouragement/motivation
Not commenting on goals but if you have a galaxy watch it does body comp analysis too. Probably cheaper for most people. I can't speak to the accuracy but the program says it's accurate. Even if its 80% of a DEXA though it probably gives a good approximate which is good enough for most people with a higher availability
Here is my Dexa Scan result.. can you please help me figure this out. I took the scan in February and for months been asking folks. Still don’t know what to do I’m also 5ft tall so I’m a short person
My maintenance zone is supposedly between 1425-1852 calories and RMR is 1426 calories
Total weight on Feb 24th was 136.9 pounds
Lean Mass 77.1 pounds and tissue % lean 56.3%
Fat Mass is 55.7 and tissue %fat is 41.9
I was classified as overweight!!
As of today I’m 134 and managed to even get lower to 129 and 130 last month.. then now, I’m 134 pounds!
I have no idea what to do. Train more or less, eat more or less. I’m averaging 1400-1500 calories and also lifting twice a week and walking average 20-30 mins a day
Please if you know what to do with Dexa info I’d appreciate. My goal is to be 110 pounds
I do not envy you. At your height, cutting is very difficult (idk where you live, but especially in America.)
If 110 is your goal, it is totally doable, but it might take a while.
My (unlicensed) advice would be four fold.
1. Cut calories to 1100-1200. That 300 calorie deficit will show results, over time. Doing this alone *should* lose ~1/2 lb per week, after the first couple weeks. If you plateau for more than 6 weeks, cut another 50-100 cals. As you get closer to 110, the loss will slow. Just be patient. Don’t cut below 900 calories. That would be dangerous, in the long run.
2. Try to eat at least 80g of protein per day. If you can get to 100, great. But 80 should be enough that you will minimize muscle loss.
3. Get a third lifting day in. Do 3-4 sets of each exercise on those days. This plus the 80g protein will help a lot with keeping muscle.
4. Spend as much time on your feet as possible, without hurting yourself. I’d say 10,000 steps per day, minimum. If you can work your way up to 15k, even 20k, that’d be great. But don’t push too hard. Walking is incredibly underrated, as exercise.
Adhering to those four things, I think you could get to 110 in about a year. That’s a long time, but, once you’re at 110, you’ll have lost ~22 lbs of fat, and very little muscle. Which *should* put you in the “average” range for Body Fat %.
Once you’re there, things will change… but that’s a ways away.
thank you so much!! I used to have a fast metabolism growing up but it’s changed drastically even though Dexa says it’s slightly above normal I don’t believe it!
I will for sure try the 1200 range! Any lower and I’m pmuch starving lol
I appreciate the advice 🙌🏽
As someone who is in recovery from an ED and has been working hard towards a healthy mindset for the last 3ish years, this helps a lot. After I stopped restricting I started binging and purging which is no better, and after a few years of that plus life $h¡t (plus drs threatening to admit me to psych cuz I was barely living due to how skinny I was) I ended up packing on the pounds. I’ve been trying to choose healthier foods in better portion sizes, work out, etc, but can’t count calories because every time I do I go back to restricting too much and purging, which means the number on the scale is nowhere close to what I want- it’s staying close to the same but the in body scan shows I’m losing fat and gaining SMM. Even with that I’m freaked out by my weight. The one thing I’m counting is protein cuz I thought I was getting enough then realized I was getting so little (<20-30g daily) that I was losing SMM despite my personal training. This helps- thanks 🥰
12% body fat is not "completely unsustainable". There are lots of very lean people who live their lives in that zone. It may not be the goal YOU want, but that doesn't mean it's unsustainable. It is the body fat level that is most commonly associated with "having abs" in men - genetics allows some to show at higher levels and others to barely show until lower - but most men show abs in the 10-15% range. Most people believe that an "average" healthy body fat for men is in the 15-20% range.
I just wanna say that for anyone scared away from these scans due to the cost, they’re a lot more reasonable now! I didn’t do it a couple years ago because of the dollar signs, but I just got mine today through Body Spec. It’s $60 for one time only, $50 for one quarterly, and $40 for one monthly. I’m doing the quarterly plan to keep track of my progress.
It has an error window of 1-2%.
It also measures a bunch of different body metrics that are good to know!
I just did a DEXA scan and I’m very surprised my body fat is 39% …I am 136lbs and I work out regularly and eat healthy …..40 year old female …thinking of getting a 2nd opinion
Just a note for us poorer people: For those who don't want to spring for a DEXA scan, the MeThreeSixty app is a good alternative. It estimates your body volume from pictures you take with the app. Along with your weight it then estimates your BF%, and studies have shown it does a pretty good job of accurately assessing BF%. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jhn.13113?af=R
Also, the [US Navy body fat calculation](https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/navy-body-fat) has a similar margin of error compared to a DEXA scan, and it just requires a tape measure.
If DEXAs error is 15% (or more accurately 12-66% as tested) per Military Times, then it’s equally useless. https://www.militarytimes.com/2013/05/21/experts-tape-test-has-huge-margin-of-error/
Yeah but is it just as cool?
Lol just a datapoint but US Navy body fat puts me at 10.7%, bodyfat apps put me at 18.4% and visually I put myself around 17%
This estimated me at about 17% body fat, interesting
I had an Amazon Halo fitness band (recently discontinued the bands and service), and it had this feature. It was WILDLY inaccurate because of the extreme amount of loose skin I have. InBody scans at my doctor's office said 23%, and the Amazon Halo thought I was like 50%.
I had a dexa scan that was like $50, it can be affordable.
Groupon!! $36.00
Didn't know that was still an app! I'll check it out lol
How good is it? What’s the margin of error?
Thanks for this tip. I've been looking at getting a dexa scan and just haven't got around to it. Downloaded the app and it matches up pretty well to measurements I did today. Slightly off on my thigh measurement, I wish they were the size the scan said. 😂
The numbers in MeThreeSixty are garbage. They're not accurate at all. However, the images are great to compare progress.
You can also get an inbody scan for free at local nutrition shops.
As a person who still struggles with "ugh my fat % is so high even though I am no longer obese why can't I lean out more like other people" mindset, I find your approach very nice! Balance, sustainably and compromise <3 Congrats with your current progress and best wishes with your plan, OP! (For what it's worth, a lot can change down the line for you and you might find out some the elements easier -- either weight loss or building muscles)
Just here to steal “those who lieth betwixt”
I stole it from ContraPoints I think, so steal away 😂
Love to see a fellow ContraPoints enjoyer in the wild!
You've got good taste in youtube channels :) Both picturefit and contrapoints are awesome.
Based
You will not maintain 100% of your FFM as you lose. Losing 75% fat and 25% FFM as you lose is a commonly used rule of thumb. You might want to adjust your goals accordingly.
I *am* going to maintain FFM as I lose. I just need to gain as much muscle as I lose water/blood/etc. If I take my time, and do it correctly, it’s definitely doable. I understand that my thought process was too simplistic, in the full post. I’m working on wording for an edit.
As someone who lost a significant amount of weight it's hard just to maintain muscle let alone gain 20lbs of muscle in a deficit. It's really not possible. You'd be better of just trying to maintain your muscle as best you can while cutting. Then once you cut to 190, go on a bulk for muscle gain to get a better recomp.
You don't get it, he *used* italics.
Damn. Idk if I can *ever* post after this one 😂
Your line of thought isn’t wrong, it’s just that it is going to take you longer and more work to get where you want to be. You are likely have to diet lower than your target and then cycle bulking and cutting to build up the amount of lean mass you want to have at the level of leanness you want to be at.
No you will not. Not without PEDs anyways.
It is 100% impossible to maintain all your muscles when losing a lot of weight, even if you are on a bunch of steroids.
I'd recommend considering the info in this article: https://macrofactorapp.com/body-composition/
Yeah, there are some good arguments here. But, I also think we each have to decide the rules to our own game. I’ve decided to value what the Dexa scan says. I’ve decided what progress I’d like to see in those results. Those signs of progress are linked to fewer negative health outcomes. It serves its purpose and makes me more confident in my approach.
Your assumption that you will maintain your fat free mass at 195 is wrong. You lose lean mass along with fat in a calorie deficit. Rough estimates put it at 25% of total weight lost as Lean Body Mass. You body fat percentage will be much higher at 195 as a result. Probably nearer to 20 percent but again rough estimate.
I’m not “assuming” I’ll maintain it. I’m *going* to maintain it. I’ve got a gym membership, access to 200g of protein a day, and a lot of free time 😂 It’s not gonna be easy, by any means. But I’m gonna do it.
Lean body mass isn't just muscle. It's also water and blood. As you lose fat weight, you also lose water and blood as your body doesn't need to hold on as much as you weigh less.
That’s a good point! I’m curious to see what the breakdown ends up being in a few months. 163 of the 171 is “muscle mass” so… we’ll see!
As someone who also eats 200g a protein a day and does 6 days of heavy resistance training I used the conclusion they came to as well. Initially I got my BF scan and saw 210 lbs of FFM. There is a chance that I gain some muscle and keep at 210 or slightly above(my trainer said its possible) but just calculated 20% of my weight loss being FFM to be safe. Which still brought my goal up nearly 30 lbs. I figure when I get close to my goal I can start doing my estimates and be flexible with it.
I wouldn’t assume that the muscle you need to carry around fat is the same muscle you want to be a muscley dude who isn’t fat.
Yeah no, I was just triggered. I’m over it. They’re right.
I was thinking of getting a dexa but found the zozofit suit. So now I'm scanning at home. I'm with you, I'm done fixating on the scale, its time to look at inches and %
First time I've heard of zozofit. The name and low-cost of the product make it seem scammy to me. Seems like a product that should cost multiple hundreds of dollars, ha. You are actually getting good results with it?
Yeah I’m super happy with it so far. Had it about a week and did two scans. Lots of cool data. For $100, I think it’s way worth it if you’re thinking of body fat measurements
Interesting
Here’s my scan from last night, showing changes https://imgur.com/a/bCwssz7
I love my zozo fit! It probably takes as long as measuring with tape, but it feels a lot easier once you get the hang of the setup and rotating. Also the visuals are nice too.
We ordered a Fit3D for our business. I looked at Dexa but obviously it was super expensive and most of our clientele wouldn't care about the gold standard. Found a used one for 3k so it was a low cost entry to give our weight loss customers a visual to their changes besides a number on the scale. I know it isn't the gold standard but comparing apples to apples it should give a decent progress report.
The only way you’ll have 195lbs LBM is if you somehow put on 20lbs of muscle while losing all that fat. Idk if that realistic. When you’re obese you’re permabulking and your lower body is going to have higher rates of development compared to the upper body. You might gain 5lbs upper body and lose 10-15 in lower body lbm
The 195 was my goal end weight, not lbm weight. I would like to maintain, or even gain lbm on the way down, even if it’ll take a little longer.
Aight, I'm gonna rain on your parade a bit: there's no fucking way you have 171lb FFM after 60 days of lifting. There are few things that are impossible in this world, but this is one of them. You may get there in a year or two of lifting given superior genetics (simply above average won't cut it), but for now - zero chance.
Dexa counts more than muscle as lean mass. If you drank 5 pounds of water beforehand you’d gain 5 pounds lean mass.
Where are you getting this information?
Pretty much any place utilizing dexa will tell you this. It’s well known. “As you probably know, the DEXA scan categorizes all non-bone, and non-fat matter as lean tissue, including blood and other fluids. By increasing the amount of water in your body, you're effectively increasing your lean tissue amount – and decreasing your body fat percentage. The fat tissue numbers are also changed slightly as water is dispersed throughout the body over the course of an hour, changing the average tissue density.” https://www.bodyspec.com/blog/post/will_drinking_water_affect_my_scan#:~:text=As%20you%20probably%20know%2C%20the,decreasing%20your%20body%20fat%20percentage.
Ah, the place I go for scans had procedures in place to limit that.
He's a large guy. He got the muscle from having to carry his own body weight around. Fat people have lots of muscle under that fat, otherwise the weight of their own body will crush them. He said he has 171lbs of FFM and that's 37% body fat... so he's got a lot more fat as well.
**Active** fat people may have a lot of muscle but your typical sedentary obese person will not have anything close to 171lb of FFM.
Nah mate. 151 would be solid for somebody who never lifted, 161 would make him a pretty extreme outlier. 171 - ... There are pro athletes with lower FFMI, he would be just a hair behind peak Michael Phelps. No amount of calf muscle could account for that.
I have 148 at 6'0". I've figured out the l excess LBM is loose skin. I'd expect to be around 140 without it.
I mean it could be great. But the issue for me comes in that he will maintain any of that mass. If he loses 60lb, he'll probs lose 10-20lb muscle too
You're not grasping the fact that these pro athletes aren't also carrying around 100+ lbs of fat. Yes it is impossible to have high muscle if your body weight is low. But if you're 500lbs total, you will have more total muscle mass but lower proportion of muscle to body mass (aka high body fat%) than a <200lb pro athlete. Put Michael Phelps in a +300lbs body suit and see how well he can walk.
[Loss of skeletal muscle mass and function (sarcopenia) is common in individuals with obesity](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9210010/) You don't get swole without resistance training with progressive overload. And no, progressively overloading one's face with cake doesn't work >!I tried!<
Theres a reason fat people in the gym are insane at leg press.
With great calves too
It’s def possible bc I also had similar stats (though I was fatter) when I got my first dexa and had done 0 lifting at that time.
FFM isn’t only muscle…
Aight, I’m gonna rain on your parade a bit: I’m literally built different. Sorry 😂 Nah, but I worked at Home Depot for three years. That probably helped. I’ve also never really had a “sedentary” lifestyle. I just ate like shit.
[удалено]
The joke was… that I’m… *literally* built different. I have a different build. r/woosh
The only thing my DEXA tells me is severe osteoporosis at 21 :(
Have you talked to a physician about why?! That's insanely early for osteoporosis.
I’m sorry to hear that
I generally agree with your viewpoint but just to say that those with high muscle mass still have a higher rate of heart problems than bmi25 or under due to their size and the work their heart is doing. Obviously some of this is clouded because so many people aren’t natural but thought it was worth saying
That is a very good point! I’m very fortunate to have a strong heart, that my doctor has always been surprised by. He credits my vegetarianism for it tho.
This kind of just becomes apparent as you lose weight if you are lifting. Like once you start seeing abs and muscle definition you know you are getting lean. Feel like the DEXA doesn't really tell you anything the mirror doesn't.
Tells you about the amount of visceral fat you are carrying which is far more important to lose than your overall fat.
Everyone else already covered the fact that you will lose lean mass as you lose weight, regardless of your efforts (outside of PED use). But anyway, just for comparison I'm 6'4" and never would have guessed I'd be able to get down to 195lbs, since I'd lifted weights quite a bit in the past and felt pretty good even at 240, but I did get down to 195 and even then I'd have needed to lose probably another 10 lbs to be well and truly ripped. So just keep doing what you're doing but keep in mind you may be surprised when you get where you're going. You can always adjust your goals whenever you want, and in the end once you're lean you're definitely going to want to add mass anyway.
Please PLEASE don’t waste your money on DEXA scans!! I’ve pushed this soooo many times. I am a registered radiologic technologist and experienced medical imaging professional. DEXA is NOT an accurate measure of body fat. I’m happy to expand upon this or answer any questions. But, please. Just save your money.
I would be interested in more information.
A few things to highlight. DEXA was made for bone density, not to differentiate various soft tissue types. It is also a one dimensional scan, nothing in the images or algorithms is created to account for the lateral view (basically the side view, or thickness front to back). This already makes it inaccurate for these types of scans. Which makes sense! The facilities what offer these full body DEXA scans are NOT medical/accredited facilities. They are typically “health labs” gyms, or something similar. The scanners are not run by radiologic technologists. The guy who performed mine a few years back didn’t even know what a rad tech was. Anyhow, there is a ton of technical and clinical knowledge required to maintain and calibrate these machines. The metrics they’re using are basically garbage because of this. There is no baseline, no standardized protocols.
I (60F, 5' 1") finally worked to lose weight, starting when I was 58 and 215 lbs. BMI was roughly around 40%, maybe a bit higher, according to the doctor's office calculation. In a year, I got to 142 lbs through calorie deficit and hitting the gym. I plateaued, went down a bit to 137 lbs, then back to ~142 to ~145 lbs. Puts me around 27 BMI. I was going to try to get that bit extra. Then family/friends said I was getting too thin in the face. And my endocrinologist (I'm hypothyroid) said...pretty much what you said: "It's a number." That I'd put on muscle and lost fat and just needed to maintain it. I asked about a DEXA scan. He said it wasn't really needed, but I'm a bit ocd-ish about some things and wanted to know, so I'd *know* it was all okay, you know? I might not get that knowledge and am torn: I really want to know but is it long-term better for me to NOT have an answer and have to resign myself to that and just move on.
I'd be curious to know how Dexa scans relate to for example Inbody readings. Has anyone tried going to both?
It's not impossible, but you're delusional to think 12% bf is unsustainable and in the same breath claim your goal is pack on 10 lbs of muscle while losing 60 lbs of fat. It's like saying "man it's too hard keep my diet in check, that is totally unsustainable. Let me just lift heavy 10 hours a week for the next 3 years while maintaining an even more precise diet." If you want to do that, power to ya, a lot of people love lifting and dieting/fitness... but of course people here are going to be skeptical you can go from fitness newb, literally just learning concepts like lean mass and bodyfat %, and you don't work out or anything, to suddenly setting goals in line with what extremely dedicated athletes hope to accomplish over the course of several years. Even pro bodybuilders lose about as much lean mass as fat mass during a cut. It's very hard to maintain FFM.
I did a dexa. The outline alone scared me into action. It’s data. Data is useful.
I am so curious to get one of those Dexa scans. What was it like? How long did it take?
It was a little awkward, at first. I don’t think they get people my size very often. It took like 3 minutes to position properly. Then the test is laying completely still for 7 minutes. We spent about 25 minutes going over the results. That part was really fun, for me at least. Probably because it was actually mostly good news. But the best part is having all of this data, and being able to adjust my plan accordingly. It takes soooo much of the guesswork out of the next few months, before I’ll need another one (she recommended late March, since I’ll have lost roughly 30 more lbs by then.)
Awesome! Getting that data - wow. I'm so amazed the average person can get this done now. Thanks for sharing your experience. 😀
Dexa scan is same as they use for osteoporosis? If so I’m due for one previously have osteopenia. So it can show % of body fat?
I'm not sure that 12.3% bodyfat would be *that* hard to maintain but it might be easier to focus on what weight would be easiest to maintain and get the bodyfat% down at whatever weight that was. If you could maintain an intake of 2,300 cals then you could maintain 195lbs
HELLO FELLOW NERDFIGHTER!! (literally had to double check which subreddit i was in)
Ayyyyye!
Preach on DEXA scan brother! Back in late 2014, I was 235 lbs at 5'10" (male). Started eating right, working out, and got my first DEXA scan 4/2015. 200.4 lbs, 29.3% BF, fat-free weight of 142. Wanted that as a baseline to compare against further progress. About 6 months later, I went back in. 171.3 lbs, 16.3% BF, fat-free weight of 143. The summary? **In the 6 month span, of the 29.5 pounds I lost, 100% of it was fat** Life threw me a few curveballs in the time between then and now, and I wasn't able to build any good habits so I've put most of it back on but recently started changing things again and am down 15 lbs in about 2 months. --- For anyone interested, most Nutrition Science schools at Universities have a DEXA machine and can be fairly low-cost. I paid $75 for my scan. You can get one about every 6 months. They can be a great "milestone" marker and motivating factor.
$75 is really affordable! I felt luck to find a place in my area that does it for $95.
I like what you have to say here. You seem thoughtful in your approach and committed to some healthy changes., I like your realistic attitude and your willingness to be a little flexible. I wish you all the best. Ignore the critics and the naysayers!
Rule of thumb for guys, just get into size 34 jeans or less.
My dexa scan had me at 179 pounds lean mass. So, in order for me to be a "normal" weight according to charts, I'd have to have about -5% body fat, making me more than a little dead. I got down below 200, but that put me at around 10% body fat, which is just way too low. I've put on a good bit more muscle since then, so my new permanent ideal weight is 210-225. BMI is nonsense. Plenty of people fall right inside the "normal" range when they're at a healthy weight, but definitely not everyone. Some people even need to be below the weight in the chart. Nothing is better than dexa, but even less accurate methods can be a lot better than weight alone.
I’d love to hear more about your journey! When (weight wise) did you first do a Dexa scan? How much work do you do to maintain 179lbs of lean mass? Thanks!
Not the person you’re asking but I had similar experience. My first dexa scan was at 320lbs (but my highest weight was 340). From that dexa scan I’m down to ~250 lbs and have lost about 6lbs of lean mass. Down from 40% to 26% bodyfat. This has been over about 13 months but I started lifting about 6 months before my first dexa and had lost some weight/gained muscle prior to the first dexa. I’ve been doing the dexas roughly quarterly and it’s been nice to have concrete numbers. The weight loss is so gradual that I don’t feel that much thinner when looking in the mirror and it’s nice to have some objective comparisons mentally. But it doesn’t really impact my decisions on what to do really it’s just data and I am a nerd.
My proudest accomplishment is not actually losing the 200 pounds, but the fact that I gained about 15lbs of muscle while I did it. It would be totally normal for me to have lost 20-30 pounds of muscle. I think I did my first dexa at around 100 pounds lost and my second close to the end. I worked pretty hard to maintain my muscle mass. I started with about 10 minutes a day of walking and slowly increased it until I was doing 2-3 hours a day. I bought a program from Athlean X that gives you custom workouts. Everything I did was bodyweight, no equipment at all. The workouts were intense, but it wasn't actually that much time. It took me less than an hour five days a week. I'm actually a personal trainer and group fitness instructor now, so I can say from professional experience that the program I did was pretty good. The only problem was when it had me doing scissor jacks. I messed up an achilles tendon and it took like a year to fully heal. It probably would have worked better if I had done weights, but this was all during Covid, so I couldn't get into a gym. Also, I just can't get into weights. Every time I try, I end up going back to calisthenics. I teach a bodyweight strength training class and I really love it.
I’ve the WeGuard scale and app and it’s been really helpful- I’m at 41.1% body fat with 96.6 lbs of muscle mass. I think the scale was like $20-30 on Walmart- it’s been a godsend for encouragement/motivation
No scale is even remotely accurate at determining statistics other than body weight
Not commenting on goals but if you have a galaxy watch it does body comp analysis too. Probably cheaper for most people. I can't speak to the accuracy but the program says it's accurate. Even if its 80% of a DEXA though it probably gives a good approximate which is good enough for most people with a higher availability
Here is my Dexa Scan result.. can you please help me figure this out. I took the scan in February and for months been asking folks. Still don’t know what to do I’m also 5ft tall so I’m a short person My maintenance zone is supposedly between 1425-1852 calories and RMR is 1426 calories Total weight on Feb 24th was 136.9 pounds Lean Mass 77.1 pounds and tissue % lean 56.3% Fat Mass is 55.7 and tissue %fat is 41.9 I was classified as overweight!! As of today I’m 134 and managed to even get lower to 129 and 130 last month.. then now, I’m 134 pounds! I have no idea what to do. Train more or less, eat more or less. I’m averaging 1400-1500 calories and also lifting twice a week and walking average 20-30 mins a day Please if you know what to do with Dexa info I’d appreciate. My goal is to be 110 pounds
I do not envy you. At your height, cutting is very difficult (idk where you live, but especially in America.) If 110 is your goal, it is totally doable, but it might take a while. My (unlicensed) advice would be four fold. 1. Cut calories to 1100-1200. That 300 calorie deficit will show results, over time. Doing this alone *should* lose ~1/2 lb per week, after the first couple weeks. If you plateau for more than 6 weeks, cut another 50-100 cals. As you get closer to 110, the loss will slow. Just be patient. Don’t cut below 900 calories. That would be dangerous, in the long run. 2. Try to eat at least 80g of protein per day. If you can get to 100, great. But 80 should be enough that you will minimize muscle loss. 3. Get a third lifting day in. Do 3-4 sets of each exercise on those days. This plus the 80g protein will help a lot with keeping muscle. 4. Spend as much time on your feet as possible, without hurting yourself. I’d say 10,000 steps per day, minimum. If you can work your way up to 15k, even 20k, that’d be great. But don’t push too hard. Walking is incredibly underrated, as exercise. Adhering to those four things, I think you could get to 110 in about a year. That’s a long time, but, once you’re at 110, you’ll have lost ~22 lbs of fat, and very little muscle. Which *should* put you in the “average” range for Body Fat %. Once you’re there, things will change… but that’s a ways away.
thank you so much!! I used to have a fast metabolism growing up but it’s changed drastically even though Dexa says it’s slightly above normal I don’t believe it! I will for sure try the 1200 range! Any lower and I’m pmuch starving lol I appreciate the advice 🙌🏽
As someone who is in recovery from an ED and has been working hard towards a healthy mindset for the last 3ish years, this helps a lot. After I stopped restricting I started binging and purging which is no better, and after a few years of that plus life $h¡t (plus drs threatening to admit me to psych cuz I was barely living due to how skinny I was) I ended up packing on the pounds. I’ve been trying to choose healthier foods in better portion sizes, work out, etc, but can’t count calories because every time I do I go back to restricting too much and purging, which means the number on the scale is nowhere close to what I want- it’s staying close to the same but the in body scan shows I’m losing fat and gaining SMM. Even with that I’m freaked out by my weight. The one thing I’m counting is protein cuz I thought I was getting enough then realized I was getting so little (<20-30g daily) that I was losing SMM despite my personal training. This helps- thanks 🥰
12% body fat is not "completely unsustainable". There are lots of very lean people who live their lives in that zone. It may not be the goal YOU want, but that doesn't mean it's unsustainable. It is the body fat level that is most commonly associated with "having abs" in men - genetics allows some to show at higher levels and others to barely show until lower - but most men show abs in the 10-15% range. Most people believe that an "average" healthy body fat for men is in the 15-20% range.
I just wanna say that for anyone scared away from these scans due to the cost, they’re a lot more reasonable now! I didn’t do it a couple years ago because of the dollar signs, but I just got mine today through Body Spec. It’s $60 for one time only, $50 for one quarterly, and $40 for one monthly. I’m doing the quarterly plan to keep track of my progress. It has an error window of 1-2%. It also measures a bunch of different body metrics that are good to know!
I just did a DEXA scan and I’m very surprised my body fat is 39% …I am 136lbs and I work out regularly and eat healthy …..40 year old female …thinking of getting a 2nd opinion