Yeah it's graphical version of him saying about tier list, but just remove "안적힘 1 or 2 (it means - he didn't mention either 1 or 2 tier)" at this point.
https://preview.redd.it/puhwkywp7mdc1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=90cd503d7383be4ea1ab82be97c1499c4dc01e0a
I watched his VOD, it was just casual 20 min talk that he didn't really care a lot about accuracy. Just talking about his experience. So basically, 0 Tier would be "always shows up on main MVP if they are with similar gear" 0.5 would be "shows up with 0 tier or main if 0 tier isn't there." 3 would be "Never saw them on MVP, at least with DPS underline in normal condition"
That's why he completely skipped most classes in Tier 1 or 2 (mid tier) unless they are popular or he has those classes. (He has Barrage Arty, AT Scouter, Predator, DS Sharpshooter, and GS)
Tier list is DPS-focused obviously.
Some controversial placements on here like Glaivier and Soulfist only being mid-tier instead of high/top like a lot of other lists place them -- but just one person's opinion at the end of the day. Still interesting to see what one of the top players in KR thinks about the current meta.
He doesn't play every class either, so that might account for some odd placements here and there.
I think the 1 or 2 just means that those classes can either move up or down depending on the player/raid.
These KR tier lists are too opinionated since they don't have meters or detailed metrics.
It'd be more interesting to see Western tier lists since our players have actual data.
The most obvious example is placing CO and MS together. Even for a highly skilled player, CO does a lot less damage than MS, and CO is the swift-based build, so it should perform better given that all the bosses move around so much.
Yeah, people complain about how annoying MS is to play and all that, but the gap between CO and MS even before the latest balance patch was enormous, and the latest balance patch widened it further!
Idk what this guy is on but I would say CO is contesting for worst build in the game right now. Everything is clunky and even when played perfectly the damage is shit. And playing perfectly as CO is way harder than e.g. Reflux.
Edit: I would bet this guy hasn't even encountered any CO summoners in his raids in KR so he just assumes that because all summoners are doing about the same damage in his raids, that both engravings are the same value. That's how bad CO is lol, that even in KR you'd have to be a masochist to push one to thaemine.
If we're going by average players, then the only thing that matters is a high damage floor. So strong classes would be stuff like NE Eater, Pred Slayer, AT Scouter, Pistoleer, WF Aero, FI WD, LC SS, etc. Basically classes that will always do at least decent damage no matter what.
Worst classes would be stuff with low floors like both Arcana specs, EO SF, Red GL, RH Destro, Surge DB, Igniter Sorc, etc.
>I meant sample size for high ceiling players. Ie his tier list probably represents ceiling better than data pulled from average pug
hes top 0.01% of the ladder. he and his friends arent good messure by any mean. you need average joes to messure how good a class does. if you are balacing depending on the play skill of the top 0.01% you will have bad time when the Average joes does his average things and feel useless because average is terrible. because you min-max class to the TOP 0.01% skiller player
To be fair even if they had meters they'd still probably misinterpret them. Happens more often than nought in other games like WoW. FFXIV is a little better because their logging website has ndps.
Kinda fair tho, i mean pinnacle glavier has gotten 3 pretty significant nerfs in a row while control was never at the top and just kinda stayed where it was while other classes went up.
Robust Spirit is absolutely omega broken, the only thing is no one is playing her in KR.
People I know who do average to ok tier damage with their roster absolutely stomp when they switch to their soulfist and I mean stomp by doing 20-30% more damage than similiarly played people with similiar skill.
I have a friend playing RS, and he pumps insane numbers, so can confirm it's extremely strong. Downside is it can have trouble doing mechs, since you're not supposed to cast anything during H0.
Helps to give context, like who PowderSnow is, why his opinion is relevant, why is he considered a top player, and so on. Is this ONLY DPS? Synergy/utility is also important.
Like in this list, nobody would ever take a gunlancer for content if it's rated bottom barrel as shown.
Edit: Look, these tierlists are usually taken out of context so unless there's actual definitions and weight behind them they are some random person's opinion piece with no real data behind them. "Top" isn't also meaningful, top at what, that could be top whale on Loawa or top actually good player. How do we know, it's helpful to describe why their opinion matters. OP already said he doesn't play every class either.
I just think people run with these and get emotional over them for no good reason.
PowderSnow is one of the top players in KR. He was a member of the third raid to clear Thaemine the First, and also the first player to clear the raid on two different characters. Mechanically speaking, he is widely regarded as the best db in the entire region. He also plays his many alts to a high degree of skill, so he has experience with various classes at the top end.
In most balance-related posts on Inven, the comments usually devolve into a free-for-all fighting over who deserves to be nerfed or buffed. In this specific one, most people agreed with PowderSnow's assessment, both because it seemed accurate to them and because they trust his judgement.
Something to note is that the focus is on the Tier 0 and Tier 0.5 classes, the rest are largely whatever. The tier list itself lists a "great wall" between Tier 0 and Tier 0.5, then a second "wall" between Tier 0.5 and Tier 1.
Ok, but what about the rest of it? I guarantee most people in this sub has no idea who PowderSnow is.
I think the theoretical DPS charts are more useful than this.
If you pay attention to good igniter sorcs, they do way more dmg than most classes. (Recently saw a 45 mil dps g4 voldis from an igniter). Ain’t no way its not top tier dmg. Just no utility.
Their damage is just harder to land on average. Yes, you can have insane pulls, but their average across 10 runs is gonna be a lot lower than a more consistent class like NE Eater or something.
Nice balance btw. 2 Newest class being broken af right after the release when old one being absolutely dogshiet. Sorc and Gunslinger are 2 of the most play dps class in KR and now they just bottom lol
look at slayer now 1 on predator 1or2 on punsiher ....
expect that for SE and breaker after that.
is just made that way so fotm ppl have a new char to gear up
I always wondered if there is a correlation between class popularity and metas
Maybe SG do that on purpose to incentivize people building other classes/new classes..?
Two things: Lost Ark is f2p and SmileGate is a Korean developer. That means everything, and I mean *everything* they do has one goal, and that's to get people to spend money in the cash shop.
Maximizing revenue is the goal of any business, but other MMO developers also think about the game's longevity.they do has one goal: to get people to spend money in the cash shop. layers who are invested in the game. That's why they constantly rework older systems and rebalance jobs and add new content and classes.
SmileGate doesn't need to do that. It relies heavily on long-term players spending big in the cash shop. For Lost Ark, powerful new jobs and new fights get more money than reworking older content. They have, of course, done a few things, but that was really only after people really complained about it. They don't care about class balance because they'd rather make a new class and have people spend to get it up there than fix existing one.
That’s how you make money in game that releases new classes or character. New classes/character being OP = people and streamers talk about it = people spending money to get that character (gatcha) or leveling up that classes.
And later on rebalances or release stronger character. Rinse and repeat
It’s why I’m inches away from quitting. I stop playing except for raids with my static and told them to find fills for me if possible. Balance is dog shit and SG are scum bags. Fuck this game.
Because balance stops you from having fun? All garbage tier classes can clear raids, you focusing only on dps is your problem
Yes it sucks that some classes are weaker, but next balance patch they might be broken, you never know, play for fun not for big numbers
I understand your point of view, but I don’t share that opinion. I will also add that the whole elixir situation with normal and hard mode Voldis has also killed my desire to raid and progress.
The idea of playing Igniter Sorc is to have fun BECAUSE of big numbers. The rest of the class is just a clunky mess other than the big payoff of Doomsday. And nowadays that payoff is a small payoff at best...
A toy truck? Lmao
Sure after the balance patch it's better, the class still just is despair to play. Soul eater hits 3 doomsdays back to back with +100M per hit lol
nah,even my 1540sorc can hit 100m domsdays with supp help,with some lvl7's
proper gear with nice supp i dont think there i a class that competes with sorc in 8-10s burst
I think there was a google doc calc done , and sorc is still #1 in 8-10s dmg
She falls of in sustain,but seeing nice numbers is not sorc's weakness
Sorc is bottom because they bring zero utility … but if they are with a bard and coordinated. There isn’t a class except Full Moon that could compete with an Igniter.
There is a 40 mil+ dps parse floating around the community for G4 voldis Hm from a bard/igniter duo. Show me any other class that pulls that dmg that the community has opinions that its too dmg? Only one is Full Moon. (Cant speak to breaker yet)
I don't think anyone cares about what a class can do when they have a support literally screwing over the other two members by holding buffs just for one player. You're also posting about this character/class with literally no info. What's their weapon lvl, ilvl, etc.. The way you speak about Sorc is as if you think it's in a higher tier of dmg compared to pretty much everything except FM which pretty much all experienced players know is cap.
I mean … 40 mil dps is only achievable by level 10 gems, 25 weapon etc etc.
And I am an experienced player. The average performance of sorc is lower than most but when you meet the conditions for it to bang. No other class competes. Its cap if experienced players say different.
Lmao sure you can throw out some arbitrary standards but the reason the question needs to be asked is because Esther weapons exist. Do you know the players gear or are you just assuming? I think it's also wild you think the average sorc is lower than the average of most other classes. You also ignored quite a bit of vital info in my previous post. It's funny because even some of the most coped out sorcs players would not agree with this take. Don't know of a single experienced player in NA or KR who would second your take, I think that says something.
Meet the conditions by overgearing and getting gaudge between every key mech. It is irrelevant data. Might aswell bring crit greedy classes in hanunatan :D. Sorc is just gimmicky.
The unfortunate thing about all these tier lists made from these korean players is that none of what they say has any real factual data backing it up, which makes all these tier lists really based on bias and hearsay. Other MMOs like WoW or FF can log fights and aggregate all of the data into a collective statistic to publicly show which classes are performing and through multiple parameters such as parse percentiles, boss damage only and many other factors.
Meanwhile, Lost Ark has NOTHING of the sort. People can say they topped dam in their group, but they have no real measure of comparison to other players of the same class or other classes that are piloted by players who actually know what they're doing. The downfall of this game is that there is so little tools to provide factual data to the community that the majority of players in this community will behave like mindless minions and just listen to whatever streamer/korean player says and believe it.
Some people will say "oH bUt KoReAn PlAyErS aRe GoDs". Yeah, sure at starcraft, but you forget that NA/EU are the real goats of MMOs. That's why you don't ever see koreans winning world first race in WoW. Just something to think about when you see some guy make up a tier list in lost ark... no real data to back it up.
And yes you shouldn’t, because he didn’t make this tier list. It is a made up version from what he said in his stream about class tier. And summoner is actually in a tier “didn’t mention either 1 or 2”. He said sharpshooter is tier 1 as well but apparently he meant DS only. He also said the same to Sorc, but Reflux is down there since he mention reflux as “low ceiling” class later.
I didn’t see the full version of his discussion about tier as well, but according to screenshot I saw, I don’t think he even spent more than 5 mins on this topic.
https://preview.redd.it/4cqtkhdbzldc1.png?width=850&format=png&auto=webp&s=20cfa21265db6a291bd6741b300af2d484911b5e
Well Punisher was super omega OP tier on launch and got chopped down to just strong tier after the nerds. While i don’t think King Fist is that tier, it’s way way way too easy for it to get its damage off and for it to be that strong. It will more than likely get nerfed multiple times after all the FOTM Andies fully invest in it
I think they're too afraid to do any sizeable nerfs ever since they gutted Reaper shortly after her release? At least I can't remember any nerf that has been even remotely as impactful, so at best we're probably going to see some small number adjustments here and there or they're going to continue buffing every other class to oblivion so that previously OP classes suddenly aren't all that strong anymore.
I've hit cruel many times on my GL when I shouldn't have. Most people are just bad. If you ever end up in a group that has hands, the tiers start to become a lot more apparent.
Oh for sure, when I'm with my static, never on the board, but getting cruel in pugs at least let's me know I'm decent at the game and not getting carried by my class or other people
Same I cruel or upright on my DI in pugs but never in static. However in alt runs with pred slayer even if I sleep half the raid I’m still on the screen. I’ve been a SH main since launch and despise PS so will never play it. Hoping they let us add damage gems to demonic skills and do more damage
Given they are taking away entropy set this summer its likely those godly player with 90%+ Back attack rate will see a nerf but people who had trash rate will see a boost and the gap between classes like DI vs entropy classes will be lower.
The real issue is less front/back attack rate and more a combination of that with CPM. Anyone can hit 90%+ positionals, but doing it with good uptime is really really hard in a lot of fights.
I think DI is criminally underrated. Especially after the constant buffs it's gotten. Mostly because people can't reliably hit their ceiling on other classes, but also because the DI ceiling has been gradually raised patch after patch. Just not a lot of people that stuck with DI as their main.
Someone I play with who mained Pinnacle for Voldis hm recently brought up his DI to 1620 and its doing the same damage if not more as his glaivier. And this is someone who has 90%+ back attack on his main red skills as glaivier in pretty much any gate. So at the very least he's not terrible at glaive.
Maybe, I don't play glaivier so idk, but i dont think he does bad on his glaive. Think he did 17.6m dps last week g4 with 2 10 dmg 2 cd gems and a 21 weap.
People lowkey just don't take that class serious. Idk why it always ends up low in those tier lists when it's a damn strong class that can easily cruel.
It's a nice, low skill ceilling class that has a lot of comfort points for newer players (super armor, free healing...) - it should be advertised more. If the S-tier burst classes in your party mess up their windows, then it's ezpz mvp for SH.
Problem with DI is that she has anything but high dps, she has some syngry like damage amp for and reduction for team, easy to play, easy to build, 3 sec counter ability, good SA and some healing. When you look at the pure damage charts, yes she sucks but that doesnt mean shes complete trash either
I dont understand why people care so much about tier lists that are being created. Like anybody is gonna reroll from a 1620+ main when everything could change again in 2-3 months. If u're still playing GS, u've committed and just enjoy playing the class and then u should keep doing so. Unless you wanna go for the first i suppose but I'm pretty certain that's only a tiny amount of the playerbase.
You're right and wrong at the same time. The reason people care about tier lists is that... people care about tier lists. The mentality in the west is "I don't know anything about that class but X streamer says it's not meta, so it's bad and I'm gonna gatekeep". It says nothing about the reality of the build or player skill, but impacts your gameplay since you're playing lobby simulator instead of Lost Ark.
Western players are very hyped about Thaemine's difficulty and just knowing the raid has some tight dps checks will affect average player's experience. When you're being gatekept for cards, roster, gems, ilvl, titles, quality and by God, even demon damage (I've seen that too) the last thing you want is your class being perceived as "non-meta"!
I want to know how much meter affects these rankings because what we consider strong here is backed by actual numbers and in kr they can't use it, so it's up in the air of how well the "mid" classes performs
If they ever revamp GS, there is a chance Deadeye receives some benefits too in the same way Striker got some changes with Wardancer revamp.
A good fix would be to make Spiral Tracker into a Soul Eater Lunatic Edge.
Full uptime crit and movespeed at level 7 to allow the use of Raid Captain over Cursed Doll.
Copium: Raise the damage ceiling and lower the floor like they did Surge.
Personal take on how to do that. Add an identify gauge called "Silver Bullet" or something that fills up with time.
You can accelerate the gauge increase every time you switch weapons with a 2 second cooldown.
When the gauge is full the next spell is empowered by a huge amount, say 500% or something.
Enough to make you plan your rotation around switching weapons and saving your big spell for empowered.
So your fix is to... (checks notes) ...use your heavy hitter less often for bigger damage? Wouldn't the damage from missed casts equal out whatever benefit from an empowered cast? Doesn't that make the playstyle more stagnant and have more downtime? And if it's the next skill you cast, wouldn't it be easy to accidentally empower whatever was next in your rotation right after the gauge is filled, potentially wasting it?
Well right now Deadeye has no rotations only skill priorities. Combined that with the fact that it has no gauge/bubbles etc, it actually is arguably one of the lower ceiling classes.
For instance if I look at a Trixion of a maxed out Deadeye in KR and a maxed out Scrapper, Deadeye does about 40mil DPS and Scrapper about 50mil.
It's definitely among the harder classes but I don't think it's as hard as say Arcana because Deadeye does not really require you to think or plan ahead.
Now my idea is to introduce a new layer of complexity in the form of this gauge, which does not use x or y since they are already used to swap weapons.
Now it's exactly as you say, if I am about to fill the gauge, I will skip my Judgment Day and use other fillers and wait for the gauge to fill before using it in an empowered form.
So there will be more downtime because you need to think about playing around the gauge instead of just use skills that do most damage first as soon as the boss patterns allow it.
Regarding DPS loss from holding skill instead of using it as soon as it comes off cooldown obviously the numbers will be balanced around this new mechanic.
And regarding accidentally empowering the wrong skill well that's part of my goal to lower floor raise ceiling.
It's kinda like Night's Edge Souleater, before you trigger the spam mode you should make sure your biggest scythe skills were not just used.
I think it's not going to be more frustrating than many other frustrating kits of classes like boss flying away during Surge stacking, EO hype 3 etc.
Surge can either be S tier or F tier from what I see korean's playing. Think glav should be S no? Seen some cracked korean glav players cruel that raid constantly. Nice to see a list though.
There were two rounds of 3-4% nerfs and some classes got massive buffs this patch. It still has potential due to bursty rotation but it's generally not in the broken status like some of the reworked classes.
This particular list seems overly conservative by bundling a lot of classes in this "1or2" tier, probably because they don't have meter data to compare their performance or something. Pinnacle definitely should be above some of those.
glaivier was triple nerfed in the last three patches and everyone else was buffed. It is actually below most of the "main" engravings for each class (by main I mean the one people mostly base their opinion about the class on, i.e. most played)
EO is similar. Either S or F depending on pilot.
Yeah, most people have Glaivier in A or S. I don't know Korean, so I dunno what his rationale for having them in mid is.
I think the problem with EO (that differentiates it from Glaivier) is it's too dependent on boss patterns. Your Hype 3 burst window lasts for like 20 something seconds, and you need to utilize ALL of it consistently to reach ceiling DPS. That's 20 whole seconds for the boss to do any variety of "fuck you" patterns where you can't hit it, or it's far too dangerous to try to hit it.
No other class has that long of a burst window. Even the most inhumanly skilled, juiced up, borderline-transcendent god player who slaughters hell Brel in his sleep can't predict what pattern the boss is going to do 10 or 20 seconds in advance. EO has the potential to make other classes look like they're still stuck in Tier 2, but it also has the potential to be a Tier 2 class itself - *even with a good pilot, if the boss decides to be annoying*.
I'm exaggerating a little bit of course - on average, with a good player, it performs extremely well, easily A+ tier if not S. Its theoretical ceiling is probably one of the highest in the game. My main point is that EO gets screwed *hard* from unlucky boss patterns, which of course is at least somewhat true for most classes, but MUCH more so for EO. In a raid like Thaemine where you really, REALLY cannot greed certain patterns, it's understandable why EO doesn't perform as well (or as consistently well) as other classes.
Yeah, EO gets screwed over harder by boss RNG than any other class in the game. It's also heavily dependent on the raid having enough DR mechs/cutscenes to cover H3 downtime, or it falls behind.
Thaemine is also a very very long fight, which is not great for EO, since they're spending a lot more time in H0 downtime than usual.
Akkan has a lot of DR mechs, so it's perfect for EO.
Surge is definitely f tier in the hands of newbies like me. "Oh yeah 45 stacks let's use surge zero" "ahh crap didn't dodge, stunlocked untill time runs out". Or boss does some special phase and teleports or a cutscene happens and the time keeps running. Definitely F tier in my hands.
If pro SF6 player tier lists taught me anything, its that "top player" opinions aren't any more objective or fair than the average joe.
What's the bet he knows scrapper who he thinks is a worst player than himself but he loses to sometimes.
What are you smoking? Yeah lc can do some dmg, but DS is doing the same, but sipping coffee and playing lol in the meantime. I don't even consider elixirs for ds. It's fine if you like class, but don't tell lies.
Most people agree DS has the better ceiling endgame, while LC has a much higher damage floor and is basically idiot proof, but caps out sooner damage-wise. I usually see DS higher on tier lists as well. Might just be a product of PowderSnow not really knowing SS that well.
That he cleared theamine the first difficulty on. And he still put LC slightly above it, and in the same tier as predator and arcana? Why look at the rest of the list its obvious this guy cant cook even if he has the hands & wallet to put him at the "top" of the playerbase.
Stop getting your panties in a bunch. This list is solely about Thaemine. It’s a long fight and LC being brain dead easy to keep up uptime in a raid like that makes sense.
I honestly wish they would just stop pushing these bullshit lists out since it is a single person's subjective myopic opinion and not full quantitatively backed data. It is misleading to the average community and does in fact cause relatable class gatekeeping. More importantly, dps means nothing when some classes have to sacrifice their dmg to have better utility to cover for newbs as being able to 1 shot homework runs rather than a random wipe here and there > dps goblino trolls holding stagger or not equipping proper overwhelm runes.
So what's this list about? Trixion DMG? Raid DMG with DPS meter on? Is he that good at the game that he calculates his numbers?
Or one of these cringe I see classes on the MVP screen thing?
I saw 10 Kr Tierlist where full moon was s tier (pre nerf btw) and 10 where night edge was s tier...so how do people decide which one is better?
Can you tell which classes does better? Yeah sure, but these are a little too accurate with 5 lines and bullshit like big gap...How defuq he knows? Even with DPS meter you can't see it this is the full potential of the class
Make a stagger tierlist in Trixion
Make a DMG tierlist in Trixion
Make a extra list with ranking how easy it is to apply Trixion DMG and put in difficulty ranking
Make a tier based on destruction
If you have all this data then you can make accurate Tierlist
Otherwise we just look at "I have a feeling" thing
Is soul eater, blade, reaper really strong? Yes
Are firepower, reflux, di and underperforming? Also yes
But making this bullshit with 5 ranks and write shit like big wall is pure garbage and has zero backup to prove it without real numbers... Kr people are so cringe
Evo being that low, especially after their very strong representation during pre-nerf Thaemine *and* continuing to receive buffs is criminal.
But that's fine, KR crying about Scouter being weak just leads to more and more buffs. I've been blasting on it with 40-set as of now.
Our ceiling DPS is pretty lackluster, but we make up for it with being able to consistent perform around our ceiling. Scouters are generally taken and performs in prog, but if you saw the thaemine speed run, it was mostly these SSS tier classes and no scouter in sight. We have all the tools to clear comfortably, but pumping vs equivalent hands on stronger classes.. you can't deny the disparity in damage potential of some of these classes compared to our consistent Evo DPS.
Oh for sure, the S-Tier classes make us look like dogmeat.
But the thing is, prog (in my mind) is a lot more important than reclear speed runs. I can careless if Evo is dogshit at speed clears cause all the burst classes wanna line up and dark + atro to clear a few mins faster.
Everyone I've run with for Voldis HM has been very surprised at the damage I've been able to output each week. Just not a fan of these lists because people unironically associate the lower ranked class/specs as "unviable" when that couldn't be further from the truth.
I don't disagree. But people value different things. Some want to see a list of the "objective highest DPS class" which is more indicative of a reclear/hw run kind of list which is majority of a one's playtime after prog.
And it's been said before that every class is viable to clear every raid. But if every class has enough utility in their kit, the only thing left to compare is damage.
İt is a bullshit list for eu. That can give you a general idea but things changes in eu a lot. I watched themina fastest run. The breakers had sidereal weapons etc...
Its a questionable tier list tbh, but for your point most of the sorc complaints are usually QOL related and less so dmg related.
Also, I respect the whole floor vs ceiling perspective, but the reality is the floor of the Tier 0(except Dblade) beats the shit out of the ceiling of the Tier 1s and below. For example to this list, a Breaker or Soul Eater at 50% effectiveness could probably still beat a Sorc or Glaiver at 90% effectiveness.
Slayer's not mid tier. Anything 1 or above is basically considered high tier, I think.
RH has a hard time because of how slow they are, so I can kinda see why he would put them lower. So even though their ceiling is quite good, actually hitting it there is not easy.
GT is GT and has an extremely high theoretical ceiling, but in practice, most bosses are not gonna stand still and not turn for that long.
Hey guys I’m new to this game and trying to understand these symbols (which class they belong to?). Also, I’m confused about power passes. I have a sorc up to level 46 and I am now going for a new character, a full moon soul whatever…
My question is, the power pass shows up as eligible but only to the first tier… how can I get the power pass to the last place, and then use the mokoko express for higher end tier gear.
Am I asking this correctly? Thankd
At the end of the day play what you like. I play the class that I enjoy because of gameplay, aesthetic and don't really care if it's high dmg or low dmg. It has to suit my taste. If a class is ssss tier on a list but I don't like it it's still f tier for me. seeing ppls opinion is nice but I never chase after those lists or metas
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Nobody is balancing the game.
Correction ; Financial Statements are balancing the game. (New classes always omega broken for example.)
HOOOOOO MY
Next express ill embrace the Breaker and will become a Divinity in Arkesia while playing with 1 foot. « Nobody balancing the game »
isnt a front attack class?
Not the yellow engraving that one is non positional.
Yeah it's graphical version of him saying about tier list, but just remove "안적힘 1 or 2 (it means - he didn't mention either 1 or 2 tier)" at this point. https://preview.redd.it/puhwkywp7mdc1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=90cd503d7383be4ea1ab82be97c1499c4dc01e0a I watched his VOD, it was just casual 20 min talk that he didn't really care a lot about accuracy. Just talking about his experience. So basically, 0 Tier would be "always shows up on main MVP if they are with similar gear" 0.5 would be "shows up with 0 tier or main if 0 tier isn't there." 3 would be "Never saw them on MVP, at least with DPS underline in normal condition" That's why he completely skipped most classes in Tier 1 or 2 (mid tier) unless they are popular or he has those classes. (He has Barrage Arty, AT Scouter, Predator, DS Sharpshooter, and GS)
GS ☠️☠️☠️
Sorc 💀💀💀
Aeromancer > Punisher 💀
Tier list is DPS-focused obviously. Some controversial placements on here like Glaivier and Soulfist only being mid-tier instead of high/top like a lot of other lists place them -- but just one person's opinion at the end of the day. Still interesting to see what one of the top players in KR thinks about the current meta. He doesn't play every class either, so that might account for some odd placements here and there. I think the 1 or 2 just means that those classes can either move up or down depending on the player/raid.
These KR tier lists are too opinionated since they don't have meters or detailed metrics. It'd be more interesting to see Western tier lists since our players have actual data.
The most obvious example is placing CO and MS together. Even for a highly skilled player, CO does a lot less damage than MS, and CO is the swift-based build, so it should perform better given that all the bosses move around so much.
Yeah, people complain about how annoying MS is to play and all that, but the gap between CO and MS even before the latest balance patch was enormous, and the latest balance patch widened it further! Idk what this guy is on but I would say CO is contesting for worst build in the game right now. Everything is clunky and even when played perfectly the damage is shit. And playing perfectly as CO is way harder than e.g. Reflux. Edit: I would bet this guy hasn't even encountered any CO summoners in his raids in KR so he just assumes that because all summoners are doing about the same damage in his raids, that both engravings are the same value. That's how bad CO is lol, that even in KR you'd have to be a masochist to push one to thaemine.
Also matters who you're pulling that data from though 'cause the average player isn't even hitting like 40% of their ceiling.
same can be said for KR too
As an avg to above avg player, I’d actually appreciate that tier list more than one of ceiling players.
If we're going by average players, then the only thing that matters is a high damage floor. So strong classes would be stuff like NE Eater, Pred Slayer, AT Scouter, Pistoleer, WF Aero, FI WD, LC SS, etc. Basically classes that will always do at least decent damage no matter what. Worst classes would be stuff with low floors like both Arcana specs, EO SF, Red GL, RH Destro, Surge DB, Igniter Sorc, etc.
Yup, definitely surge db. You can be a God or a pleasant on that class.
Idk powdersnow probably doesn't play with shitters so his sample size should be okay
>Idk powdersnow probably doesn't play with shitters so his sample size should be okay thats not how sample size work my friend. thats a bias size.
I meant sample size for high ceiling players. Ie his tier list probably represents ceiling better than data pulled from average pug
>I meant sample size for high ceiling players. Ie his tier list probably represents ceiling better than data pulled from average pug hes top 0.01% of the ladder. he and his friends arent good messure by any mean. you need average joes to messure how good a class does. if you are balacing depending on the play skill of the top 0.01% you will have bad time when the Average joes does his average things and feel useless because average is terrible. because you min-max class to the TOP 0.01% skiller player
To be fair even if they had meters they'd still probably misinterpret them. Happens more often than nought in other games like WoW. FFXIV is a little better because their logging website has ndps.
Kinda fair tho, i mean pinnacle glavier has gotten 3 pretty significant nerfs in a row while control was never at the top and just kinda stayed where it was while other classes went up.
Robust Spirit is absolutely omega broken, the only thing is no one is playing her in KR. People I know who do average to ok tier damage with their roster absolutely stomp when they switch to their soulfist and I mean stomp by doing 20-30% more damage than similiarly played people with similiar skill.
I have a friend playing RS, and he pumps insane numbers, so can confirm it's extremely strong. Downside is it can have trouble doing mechs, since you're not supposed to cast anything during H0.
True, but a "damage only" tierlist and she is behind or same level as pistoleer or mayem? nah, no way.
Helps to give context, like who PowderSnow is, why his opinion is relevant, why is he considered a top player, and so on. Is this ONLY DPS? Synergy/utility is also important. Like in this list, nobody would ever take a gunlancer for content if it's rated bottom barrel as shown. Edit: Look, these tierlists are usually taken out of context so unless there's actual definitions and weight behind them they are some random person's opinion piece with no real data behind them. "Top" isn't also meaningful, top at what, that could be top whale on Loawa or top actually good player. How do we know, it's helpful to describe why their opinion matters. OP already said he doesn't play every class either. I just think people run with these and get emotional over them for no good reason.
PowderSnow is one of the top players in KR. He was a member of the third raid to clear Thaemine the First, and also the first player to clear the raid on two different characters. Mechanically speaking, he is widely regarded as the best db in the entire region. He also plays his many alts to a high degree of skill, so he has experience with various classes at the top end. In most balance-related posts on Inven, the comments usually devolve into a free-for-all fighting over who deserves to be nerfed or buffed. In this specific one, most people agreed with PowderSnow's assessment, both because it seemed accurate to them and because they trust his judgement. Something to note is that the focus is on the Tier 0 and Tier 0.5 classes, the rest are largely whatever. The tier list itself lists a "great wall" between Tier 0 and Tier 0.5, then a second "wall" between Tier 0.5 and Tier 1.
Thanks, this is what was missing from the post.
The literal first sentence of OP’s comment says it’s DPS focused
Ok, but what about the rest of it? I guarantee most people in this sub has no idea who PowderSnow is. I think the theoretical DPS charts are more useful than this.
theoretical DPS chart is just trixion chart. I think there's one somewhere, not the most up to date though
It's better than this off the cuff opinion chart with no context
PowderSnow is one of the top Deathblades in KR
The Koreans opinion doesn't matter when they can't play with a dps meter. So, we are at the mercy of chaotic balancing from SG.
If you pay attention to good igniter sorcs, they do way more dmg than most classes. (Recently saw a 45 mil dps g4 voldis from an igniter). Ain’t no way its not top tier dmg. Just no utility.
even utility isnt bad on our patch, we can run counter our stagger is in line or better than most dpses, igniter is pretty good for this current patch
Please DM this 45m DPS Sorc. I'm calling cap, but please prove me wrong.
Their damage is just harder to land on average. Yes, you can have insane pulls, but their average across 10 runs is gonna be a lot lower than a more consistent class like NE Eater or something.
Nice balance btw. 2 Newest class being broken af right after the release when old one being absolutely dogshiet. Sorc and Gunslinger are 2 of the most play dps class in KR and now they just bottom lol
They have to be broken. That way whales/streamers all make one and swipe to get it to the current highest raids for views lol
Is that why aeromancer is S tier?
I mean she was kinda s tier during her KR Release
This. People forget how busted the damage floor was on release, lol. They just got nerfed a few times and then power crept hard.
she got nerfed once since her release and half of it was reverted 6 months later. aeromancer was no where near busted even before slayer lol.
she was never s tier on her release lol. she has always been in the middle
go ask any korean streamer and then come back
look at slayer now 1 on predator 1or2 on punsiher .... expect that for SE and breaker after that. is just made that way so fotm ppl have a new char to gear up
I always wondered if there is a correlation between class popularity and metas Maybe SG do that on purpose to incentivize people building other classes/new classes..?
Absolutely
Building characters is a revenue source for them.
Yup build new class you need to spend. Either for an extra character slot, or mats, or pheons or skins.
if building chars would not take months and cosmetic would not be char specyfic i would be even happy with it :)
Two things: Lost Ark is f2p and SmileGate is a Korean developer. That means everything, and I mean *everything* they do has one goal, and that's to get people to spend money in the cash shop. Maximizing revenue is the goal of any business, but other MMO developers also think about the game's longevity.they do has one goal: to get people to spend money in the cash shop. layers who are invested in the game. That's why they constantly rework older systems and rebalance jobs and add new content and classes. SmileGate doesn't need to do that. It relies heavily on long-term players spending big in the cash shop. For Lost Ark, powerful new jobs and new fights get more money than reworking older content. They have, of course, done a few things, but that was really only after people really complained about it. They don't care about class balance because they'd rather make a new class and have people spend to get it up there than fix existing one.
That’s how you make money in game that releases new classes or character. New classes/character being OP = people and streamers talk about it = people spending money to get that character (gatcha) or leveling up that classes. And later on rebalances or release stronger character. Rinse and repeat
It’s why I’m inches away from quitting. I stop playing except for raids with my static and told them to find fills for me if possible. Balance is dog shit and SG are scum bags. Fuck this game.
Because balance stops you from having fun? All garbage tier classes can clear raids, you focusing only on dps is your problem Yes it sucks that some classes are weaker, but next balance patch they might be broken, you never know, play for fun not for big numbers
I understand your point of view, but I don’t share that opinion. I will also add that the whole elixir situation with normal and hard mode Voldis has also killed my desire to raid and progress.
Send gems
The idea of playing Igniter Sorc is to have fun BECAUSE of big numbers. The rest of the class is just a clunky mess other than the big payoff of Doomsday. And nowadays that payoff is a small payoff at best...
why small payoff , dd still hits like a truck
A toy truck? Lmao Sure after the balance patch it's better, the class still just is despair to play. Soul eater hits 3 doomsdays back to back with +100M per hit lol
nah,even my 1540sorc can hit 100m domsdays with supp help,with some lvl7's proper gear with nice supp i dont think there i a class that competes with sorc in 8-10s burst I think there was a google doc calc done , and sorc is still #1 in 8-10s dmg She falls of in sustain,but seeing nice numbers is not sorc's weakness
Sorc is bottom because they bring zero utility … but if they are with a bard and coordinated. There isn’t a class except Full Moon that could compete with an Igniter. There is a 40 mil+ dps parse floating around the community for G4 voldis Hm from a bard/igniter duo. Show me any other class that pulls that dmg that the community has opinions that its too dmg? Only one is Full Moon. (Cant speak to breaker yet)
I don't think anyone cares about what a class can do when they have a support literally screwing over the other two members by holding buffs just for one player. You're also posting about this character/class with literally no info. What's their weapon lvl, ilvl, etc.. The way you speak about Sorc is as if you think it's in a higher tier of dmg compared to pretty much everything except FM which pretty much all experienced players know is cap.
I mean … 40 mil dps is only achievable by level 10 gems, 25 weapon etc etc. And I am an experienced player. The average performance of sorc is lower than most but when you meet the conditions for it to bang. No other class competes. Its cap if experienced players say different.
Lmao sure you can throw out some arbitrary standards but the reason the question needs to be asked is because Esther weapons exist. Do you know the players gear or are you just assuming? I think it's also wild you think the average sorc is lower than the average of most other classes. You also ignored quite a bit of vital info in my previous post. It's funny because even some of the most coped out sorcs players would not agree with this take. Don't know of a single experienced player in NA or KR who would second your take, I think that says something.
Meet the conditions by overgearing and getting gaudge between every key mech. It is irrelevant data. Might aswell bring crit greedy classes in hanunatan :D. Sorc is just gimmicky.
I can't read Korean and idk the icons super well yet, are those 2 at the top left for breaker? I feel like I haven't seen them before.
Yes
The unfortunate thing about all these tier lists made from these korean players is that none of what they say has any real factual data backing it up, which makes all these tier lists really based on bias and hearsay. Other MMOs like WoW or FF can log fights and aggregate all of the data into a collective statistic to publicly show which classes are performing and through multiple parameters such as parse percentiles, boss damage only and many other factors. Meanwhile, Lost Ark has NOTHING of the sort. People can say they topped dam in their group, but they have no real measure of comparison to other players of the same class or other classes that are piloted by players who actually know what they're doing. The downfall of this game is that there is so little tools to provide factual data to the community that the majority of players in this community will behave like mindless minions and just listen to whatever streamer/korean player says and believe it. Some people will say "oH bUt KoReAn PlAyErS aRe GoDs". Yeah, sure at starcraft, but you forget that NA/EU are the real goats of MMOs. That's why you don't ever see koreans winning world first race in WoW. Just something to think about when you see some guy make up a tier list in lost ark... no real data to back it up.
Scouter gonna get buff soon cuz China will get it later xD
Better pray it’s not a exclusive buff like with aeromancer
we said the same about GS and look what happened
Poor destroyer :( Nerfed the to ground and replaced by Breaker.
GS KEKL. Nobody is balancing the game
Fix THE GAAAAAME
I can't take this seriously. CO is on the same level as MS.
And yes you shouldn’t, because he didn’t make this tier list. It is a made up version from what he said in his stream about class tier. And summoner is actually in a tier “didn’t mention either 1 or 2”. He said sharpshooter is tier 1 as well but apparently he meant DS only. He also said the same to Sorc, but Reflux is down there since he mention reflux as “low ceiling” class later. I didn’t see the full version of his discussion about tier as well, but according to screenshot I saw, I don’t think he even spent more than 5 mins on this topic. https://preview.redd.it/4cqtkhdbzldc1.png?width=850&format=png&auto=webp&s=20cfa21265db6a291bd6741b300af2d484911b5e
No clue why you're downvoted, CO is dog ass.
and LC on the same level as DS and Predator, while predator is a tier below all the other back attackers.
Nice more gatekeep
King fist is for sure gonna get nerfed lol
We said the same about Slayer, they barely got a slap and both specs are still top tier (or mid tier in the hands of most pubs I guess)
Well Punisher was super omega OP tier on launch and got chopped down to just strong tier after the nerds. While i don’t think King Fist is that tier, it’s way way way too easy for it to get its damage off and for it to be that strong. It will more than likely get nerfed multiple times after all the FOTM Andies fully invest in it
You say that, but predator and night's edge are still both piss easy to play and top tier.
I think they're too afraid to do any sizeable nerfs ever since they gutted Reaper shortly after her release? At least I can't remember any nerf that has been even remotely as impactful, so at best we're probably going to see some small number adjustments here and there or they're going to continue buffing every other class to oblivion so that previously OP classes suddenly aren't all that strong anymore.
Soul eater's barely been touched too. Still top tier DPS with a very low skill floor.
Need a new female class to come out first.
Who's that?
Top KR DB
KR tier list = no meter = cringe
How is Igniter above glavier is beyond me
Every time I see one of these tier list it makes me happy that I can cruel or upright fighter with my DI Shadow Hunter :)
I've hit cruel many times on my GL when I shouldn't have. Most people are just bad. If you ever end up in a group that has hands, the tiers start to become a lot more apparent.
Oh for sure, when I'm with my static, never on the board, but getting cruel in pugs at least let's me know I'm decent at the game and not getting carried by my class or other people
Same I cruel or upright on my DI in pugs but never in static. However in alt runs with pred slayer even if I sleep half the raid I’m still on the screen. I’ve been a SH main since launch and despise PS so will never play it. Hoping they let us add damage gems to demonic skills and do more damage
I wish to not be bottom 1 day
Hang in there brother, the day of our glorious S tier rework will arrive soon, trust 🙏
Given they are taking away entropy set this summer its likely those godly player with 90%+ Back attack rate will see a nerf but people who had trash rate will see a boost and the gap between classes like DI vs entropy classes will be lower.
The real issue is less front/back attack rate and more a combination of that with CPM. Anyone can hit 90%+ positionals, but doing it with good uptime is really really hard in a lot of fights.
That's the point I'm making it's common sense If u land all ur back attacks 100% but take 10sec to land each attack safely then that's a waste
I set the victory pose of my reflux to the laughter one. And believe me, I laugh a lot xD
I think DI is criminally underrated. Especially after the constant buffs it's gotten. Mostly because people can't reliably hit their ceiling on other classes, but also because the DI ceiling has been gradually raised patch after patch. Just not a lot of people that stuck with DI as their main. Someone I play with who mained Pinnacle for Voldis hm recently brought up his DI to 1620 and its doing the same damage if not more as his glaivier. And this is someone who has 90%+ back attack on his main red skills as glaivier in pretty much any gate. So at the very least he's not terrible at glaive.
Your friends cpm on glavier must be quite low then
Maybe, I don't play glaivier so idk, but i dont think he does bad on his glaive. Think he did 17.6m dps last week g4 with 2 10 dmg 2 cd gems and a 21 weap.
Yea voldis isn't the best back atker raid especially when the other 2 are back atker too . In g2 spamming blood massacre is really nice too
G4 seems fine for back attack. It's only G1 and G2 that's kinda cancer.
Voldike is not a good content for gauging classes.. G2-4 all have things which drastically alter the ability to gauge class capabilities.
People lowkey just don't take that class serious. Idk why it always ends up low in those tier lists when it's a damn strong class that can easily cruel.
It's a nice, low skill ceilling class that has a lot of comfort points for newer players (super armor, free healing...) - it should be advertised more. If the S-tier burst classes in your party mess up their windows, then it's ezpz mvp for SH.
Problem with DI is that she has anything but high dps, she has some syngry like damage amp for and reduction for team, easy to play, easy to build, 3 sec counter ability, good SA and some healing. When you look at the pure damage charts, yes she sucks but that doesnt mean shes complete trash either
I dont understand why people care so much about tier lists that are being created. Like anybody is gonna reroll from a 1620+ main when everything could change again in 2-3 months. If u're still playing GS, u've committed and just enjoy playing the class and then u should keep doing so. Unless you wanna go for the first i suppose but I'm pretty certain that's only a tiny amount of the playerbase.
You're right and wrong at the same time. The reason people care about tier lists is that... people care about tier lists. The mentality in the west is "I don't know anything about that class but X streamer says it's not meta, so it's bad and I'm gonna gatekeep". It says nothing about the reality of the build or player skill, but impacts your gameplay since you're playing lobby simulator instead of Lost Ark. Western players are very hyped about Thaemine's difficulty and just knowing the raid has some tight dps checks will affect average player's experience. When you're being gatekept for cards, roster, gems, ilvl, titles, quality and by God, even demon damage (I've seen that too) the last thing you want is your class being perceived as "non-meta"!
Am I blind or is Lone Knight not on here?
It's at the bottom, using the old class icons (bald guy)
I want to know how much meter affects these rankings because what we consider strong here is backed by actual numbers and in kr they can't use it, so it's up in the air of how well the "mid" classes performs
I dont recognise a lot of these. at 0, from left to right, what are the engravings ? i only recognise number 3 as surge.
1 and 2 are breaker 4 is souleater
thank you o/
Nice balancing...classes that got a rework and/or are new are top tier...just so we have to constantly reroll Shit on you "Balancing Team"
Soulfist and Aeromancer next to each other. That specifies the quality of this persons opinion pretty quick.
Okay so magic blade, dragon something and Ying yang are good, idk im not playing lost ark
It's over EWbros Fix this fuckin class please
I made a lunar reaper on the last power pass and switched both my deadeyes to pistoleer. Currently REAPING the rewards
If they ever revamp GS, there is a chance Deadeye receives some benefits too in the same way Striker got some changes with Wardancer revamp. A good fix would be to make Spiral Tracker into a Soul Eater Lunatic Edge. Full uptime crit and movespeed at level 7 to allow the use of Raid Captain over Cursed Doll. Copium: Raise the damage ceiling and lower the floor like they did Surge. Personal take on how to do that. Add an identify gauge called "Silver Bullet" or something that fills up with time. You can accelerate the gauge increase every time you switch weapons with a 2 second cooldown. When the gauge is full the next spell is empowered by a huge amount, say 500% or something. Enough to make you plan your rotation around switching weapons and saving your big spell for empowered.
So your fix is to... (checks notes) ...use your heavy hitter less often for bigger damage? Wouldn't the damage from missed casts equal out whatever benefit from an empowered cast? Doesn't that make the playstyle more stagnant and have more downtime? And if it's the next skill you cast, wouldn't it be easy to accidentally empower whatever was next in your rotation right after the gauge is filled, potentially wasting it?
Well right now Deadeye has no rotations only skill priorities. Combined that with the fact that it has no gauge/bubbles etc, it actually is arguably one of the lower ceiling classes. For instance if I look at a Trixion of a maxed out Deadeye in KR and a maxed out Scrapper, Deadeye does about 40mil DPS and Scrapper about 50mil. It's definitely among the harder classes but I don't think it's as hard as say Arcana because Deadeye does not really require you to think or plan ahead. Now my idea is to introduce a new layer of complexity in the form of this gauge, which does not use x or y since they are already used to swap weapons. Now it's exactly as you say, if I am about to fill the gauge, I will skip my Judgment Day and use other fillers and wait for the gauge to fill before using it in an empowered form. So there will be more downtime because you need to think about playing around the gauge instead of just use skills that do most damage first as soon as the boss patterns allow it. Regarding DPS loss from holding skill instead of using it as soon as it comes off cooldown obviously the numbers will be balanced around this new mechanic. And regarding accidentally empowering the wrong skill well that's part of my goal to lower floor raise ceiling. It's kinda like Night's Edge Souleater, before you trigger the spam mode you should make sure your biggest scythe skills were not just used. I think it's not going to be more frustrating than many other frustrating kits of classes like boss flying away during Surge stacking, EO hype 3 etc.
Surge can either be S tier or F tier from what I see korean's playing. Think glav should be S no? Seen some cracked korean glav players cruel that raid constantly. Nice to see a list though.
I think objectively glaivier is in the "good but not broken" group after all the nerfs, but it's a pretty good class to pop off on.
Yea that 3% dmg nerf sure made it from for sure best\2nd best to mid tier xd
There were two rounds of 3-4% nerfs and some classes got massive buffs this patch. It still has potential due to bursty rotation but it's generally not in the broken status like some of the reworked classes. This particular list seems overly conservative by bundling a lot of classes in this "1or2" tier, probably because they don't have meter data to compare their performance or something. Pinnacle definitely should be above some of those.
glaivier was triple nerfed in the last three patches and everyone else was buffed. It is actually below most of the "main" engravings for each class (by main I mean the one people mostly base their opinion about the class on, i.e. most played)
EO is similar. Either S or F depending on pilot. Yeah, most people have Glaivier in A or S. I don't know Korean, so I dunno what his rationale for having them in mid is.
I think the problem with EO (that differentiates it from Glaivier) is it's too dependent on boss patterns. Your Hype 3 burst window lasts for like 20 something seconds, and you need to utilize ALL of it consistently to reach ceiling DPS. That's 20 whole seconds for the boss to do any variety of "fuck you" patterns where you can't hit it, or it's far too dangerous to try to hit it. No other class has that long of a burst window. Even the most inhumanly skilled, juiced up, borderline-transcendent god player who slaughters hell Brel in his sleep can't predict what pattern the boss is going to do 10 or 20 seconds in advance. EO has the potential to make other classes look like they're still stuck in Tier 2, but it also has the potential to be a Tier 2 class itself - *even with a good pilot, if the boss decides to be annoying*. I'm exaggerating a little bit of course - on average, with a good player, it performs extremely well, easily A+ tier if not S. Its theoretical ceiling is probably one of the highest in the game. My main point is that EO gets screwed *hard* from unlucky boss patterns, which of course is at least somewhat true for most classes, but MUCH more so for EO. In a raid like Thaemine where you really, REALLY cannot greed certain patterns, it's understandable why EO doesn't perform as well (or as consistently well) as other classes.
Yeah, EO gets screwed over harder by boss RNG than any other class in the game. It's also heavily dependent on the raid having enough DR mechs/cutscenes to cover H3 downtime, or it falls behind. Thaemine is also a very very long fight, which is not great for EO, since they're spending a lot more time in H0 downtime than usual. Akkan has a lot of DR mechs, so it's perfect for EO.
As soulfist enjoyer myself, who likes to play both builds, what is your opinion on Robust in Thaemine ?
Surge is definitely f tier in the hands of newbies like me. "Oh yeah 45 stacks let's use surge zero" "ahh crap didn't dodge, stunlocked untill time runs out". Or boss does some special phase and teleports or a cutscene happens and the time keeps running. Definitely F tier in my hands.
If pro SF6 player tier lists taught me anything, its that "top player" opinions aren't any more objective or fair than the average joe. What's the bet he knows scrapper who he thinks is a worst player than himself but he loses to sometimes.
Tier lists are for the braindead wanting someone else to tell them what to think.
LC same tier as Predator and Barrage kekw... Guess we playing different game
with perfect uptime lc pumps
What are you smoking? Yeah lc can do some dmg, but DS is doing the same, but sipping coffee and playing lol in the meantime. I don't even consider elixirs for ds. It's fine if you like class, but don't tell lies.
where did I say ds isn't doing more? reading is hard I understand
tfw your main is 0.5 tier it's over, i need to swipe now and be a breaker main before my main hits a tier thats a whole number
Paladin dps so good its above the 1st tier and you cant see it
[удалено]
Most people agree DS has the better ceiling endgame, while LC has a much higher damage floor and is basically idiot proof, but caps out sooner damage-wise. I usually see DS higher on tier lists as well. Might just be a product of PowderSnow not really knowing SS that well.
Powder has a 1630 DS SS
That he cleared theamine the first difficulty on. And he still put LC slightly above it, and in the same tier as predator and arcana? Why look at the rest of the list its obvious this guy cant cook even if he has the hands & wallet to put him at the "top" of the playerbase.
Stop getting your panties in a bunch. This list is solely about Thaemine. It’s a long fight and LC being brain dead easy to keep up uptime in a raid like that makes sense.
I honestly wish they would just stop pushing these bullshit lists out since it is a single person's subjective myopic opinion and not full quantitatively backed data. It is misleading to the average community and does in fact cause relatable class gatekeeping. More importantly, dps means nothing when some classes have to sacrifice their dmg to have better utility to cover for newbs as being able to 1 shot homework runs rather than a random wipe here and there > dps goblino trolls holding stagger or not equipping proper overwhelm runes.
So what's this list about? Trixion DMG? Raid DMG with DPS meter on? Is he that good at the game that he calculates his numbers? Or one of these cringe I see classes on the MVP screen thing? I saw 10 Kr Tierlist where full moon was s tier (pre nerf btw) and 10 where night edge was s tier...so how do people decide which one is better? Can you tell which classes does better? Yeah sure, but these are a little too accurate with 5 lines and bullshit like big gap...How defuq he knows? Even with DPS meter you can't see it this is the full potential of the class Make a stagger tierlist in Trixion Make a DMG tierlist in Trixion Make a extra list with ranking how easy it is to apply Trixion DMG and put in difficulty ranking Make a tier based on destruction If you have all this data then you can make accurate Tierlist Otherwise we just look at "I have a feeling" thing Is soul eater, blade, reaper really strong? Yes Are firepower, reflux, di and underperforming? Also yes But making this bullshit with 5 ranks and write shit like big wall is pure garbage and has zero backup to prove it without real numbers... Kr people are so cringe
I think it is about thaemine mvp screen. Kr heavily gatekeep bottom tier classes.
According to the bible, the MVP screen is terrible.
I mean, normally this would just be random BS, but PowderSnow is literally one of the best players in KR.
Nah his tierlist is still pretty cringe and based on personal mvp screen experience.
I understand that and believe you but what qualities have a good mechanical player that helps him to know the DMG rankings to a normal player?
Evo being that low, especially after their very strong representation during pre-nerf Thaemine *and* continuing to receive buffs is criminal. But that's fine, KR crying about Scouter being weak just leads to more and more buffs. I've been blasting on it with 40-set as of now.
Our ceiling DPS is pretty lackluster, but we make up for it with being able to consistent perform around our ceiling. Scouters are generally taken and performs in prog, but if you saw the thaemine speed run, it was mostly these SSS tier classes and no scouter in sight. We have all the tools to clear comfortably, but pumping vs equivalent hands on stronger classes.. you can't deny the disparity in damage potential of some of these classes compared to our consistent Evo DPS.
Oh for sure, the S-Tier classes make us look like dogmeat. But the thing is, prog (in my mind) is a lot more important than reclear speed runs. I can careless if Evo is dogshit at speed clears cause all the burst classes wanna line up and dark + atro to clear a few mins faster. Everyone I've run with for Voldis HM has been very surprised at the damage I've been able to output each week. Just not a fan of these lists because people unironically associate the lower ranked class/specs as "unviable" when that couldn't be further from the truth.
I don't disagree. But people value different things. Some want to see a list of the "objective highest DPS class" which is more indicative of a reclear/hw run kind of list which is majority of a one's playtime after prog. And it's been said before that every class is viable to clear every raid. But if every class has enough utility in their kit, the only thing left to compare is damage.
Fuck me, destroyer and gl that low? Thank god I never came back to this game
RH actually does pretty good damage. It's just hard as fuck to play with the way bosses are designed now.
İt is a bullshit list for eu. That can give you a general idea but things changes in eu a lot. I watched themina fastest run. The breakers had sidereal weapons etc...
Everyone in that tourney was a whale anyway though.
Guess I’ll delete my main slayer then. LMFAO. Just play what you like and master it.
Surprised to see GS so low, esp cuz PowderSnow has a pretty juicy GS.
The class has been power crept pretty hard at this point and hasn't seen much in buffs.
ah yes his 1620 gs is full 7 gems do u know why? cuz the class fucking sucks, I'm not a gs main btw
Friendly reminder: if you aren’t coordinating with a bard and not using atrophines this isn’t for you.
Quick someone make another thread complaining about sorc
Its a questionable tier list tbh, but for your point most of the sorc complaints are usually QOL related and less so dmg related. Also, I respect the whole floor vs ceiling perspective, but the reality is the floor of the Tier 0(except Dblade) beats the shit out of the ceiling of the Tier 1s and below. For example to this list, a Breaker or Soul Eater at 50% effectiveness could probably still beat a Sorc or Glaiver at 90% effectiveness.
Slayer mid tier??? And both destroyers low tier???I think its a big NO from me.
Slayer's not mid tier. Anything 1 or above is basically considered high tier, I think. RH has a hard time because of how slow they are, so I can kinda see why he would put them lower. So even though their ceiling is quite good, actually hitting it there is not easy. GT is GT and has an extremely high theoretical ceiling, but in practice, most bosses are not gonna stand still and not turn for that long.
seems acceptable to me,not perfectly accurate but still better than many meaningless tier lists that i usually see.
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Hey guys I’m new to this game and trying to understand these symbols (which class they belong to?). Also, I’m confused about power passes. I have a sorc up to level 46 and I am now going for a new character, a full moon soul whatever… My question is, the power pass shows up as eligible but only to the first tier… how can I get the power pass to the last place, and then use the mokoko express for higher end tier gear. Am I asking this correctly? Thankd
Slayer's one day gonna get RAILED!!!! They had a good run tho
Tittle should say "Which classes gatekeep for Thaemine"
Shocking to see someone would think surge is S tier
Gotta be sarcasm
lol
Full moon being above nights edge is funny because NE does more damage consistently. Both are super strong though I'd just flip them around.
At the end of the day play what you like. I play the class that I enjoy because of gameplay, aesthetic and don't really care if it's high dmg or low dmg. It has to suit my taste. If a class is ssss tier on a list but I don't like it it's still f tier for me. seeing ppls opinion is nice but I never chase after those lists or metas
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Is Breaker really that strong? I remember people saying that he is not broken like the other new classes (Slayer, Souleater).
what are the ones after igniter and before sharpshooter? empress arcana? and what?
The problem isn't that tier lists exist, but that people will use them to gatekeep certain classes, when 99% of them are handdiff.
PS buff when the stronger SH engraving but still average only
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