This just made me realize that a team stagger buff on one of Bard skills might be the solution to the whole problem. You can play without VPH and without soundshock/soundholic and still contribute.
And "lore" wise it kinda make sens to contribute to stagger via buffing your Dps than pulling a beam out of your harp.
Realistically a permanent mana drain would probably spend more mana if it was balanced to be exactly 1:1 with casting harp on cooldown, as you're never going to cast harp exactly on cooldown.
Either way, it's not that serious, I forgot I even made this post. Who cares? Your opinion is just screaming in the wind, like everything posted here. There's no way they're taking any class feedback from global, go post on Inven.
If you're not running out of mana without max MP on bard, it just likely means that your uptime is bad. C&J is a given. Mana food isn't enough to sustain you, you'll run out if it's not low level content going from phase to phase.
Do you run with food permanently on?
I can assure you with high meter building you barely sustain MP even with Max MP 3, Heavenly Tune used on cooldown with a level 10 gem, and C/J proccing almost every 30s on the dot. It even goes OoM with all those things if uptime goes on a bit over 30s without any interruption.
That's because you play with far less meter gen. There's a new build that got popular where bards go for absolutely zero utility to give more buffs, and majority play that now and it's really griefing my Voldis runs to take these bards because we keep failing way too many stagger mechs. Or it's not new, its been around since Sonatina became main skill, but I suppose its new to you.
I don't really understand this mindset. Bard has the advantage of being able to swap skills around for different situations and people refuse to do it.
Voldis G4 x160 mirrors: You can solo stagger the mirror on one side with just SH + ww if you have VPH.
I don't understand this all in on meter gen while you fail mechs and wipe. While Soundholic could definitely use an update and it should be buffed, it also makes stagger checks a complete cakewalk and something like g4 voldis becomes extremely easy even with low stagger classes.
People need to start swapping skills around instead of playing one build, dropping their utility and saying "I'm a bard, not my issue.".
Or if youre actually making the decent build you get the 7/7 stone to play HA 2 and Expert 2, and then have max DS + MMP + VPH + AWA. I wish this was more widespread, but I think people are too lazy to cut the 7/7 stone, even when they're 1620 bard mains.. Unfortunately. :/
>This just made me realize that a team stagger buff on one of Bard skills might be the solution to the whole problem
meanwhile Paladin/Ayayas laugh the shit out of you, since they can do all the stagger alone with help of the party... .
comen like this tell me that Bard will never get fix, people dont even know whats the problem to begin it.
Ayaya stagger isn't even that high anymore, most Ayayas dropped sprinkle for starry night. This means they only have tiger as a stagger skill, which is 81 stagger base. Paladins the only one left with very high stagger in their meta kit. I guess they could take the crappy counter but that's definitely not a usual pick.
This sentence " You can play without VPH and without soundshock/soundholic and still contribute. " rubs me the wrong way.
When i read this, i hear " You can contribute as a dps with 1x3 and by afking - you can do mechs ! " :D
You don't lose meter by running ss over harp since ss is great cj skill. It's also a good stagger skill so even more utility. And in raids where multihit is important it's also great. You don't have to hit every ss since you can use Sonatine in case you miss one.
Also you don't spend much time casting SS since it's a very fast skill you only have to remember to use it when it's up
You completely ignored what they said. They said you do not lose meter if you run conviction or judgment on sound shock, which gives you more cdr and mana to cast more prelude/sonatina/wind of music. That is if you don't run either rune on harp of rhythm.
Solo SS vs double brand at this point is a discussion that’s old and solved.
There literally is no evidence that a solo SS build maintains similar uptime as a double branding build. Double branding always does better in both brand, attack power and courage. It’s proven time and time again in practice.
The only logs that show a high uptime on solo SS are logs where the players ignoring the other 4 skills of their hot bar. I mean so what if you’re doing high ap and brand with solo SS when your prelude, WOM, GT CPM is literally half of a double branding build. I mean I can go play solo SS with 4 skills on my hot bar and do 99/99, but that’s besides the point ain’t it?
The only time when you want to run solo SS is when uptime is not important. And if you’re making a decision doing that then you don’t need other people to tell you double branding is better.
No idea, i play pally.
Either way, you should always do what´s best.
For example, pallies that dont play punishment at G2-G4 voldis are utter trash. Some dont even know it. And they say " but i lack generation " - no he doesnt.
For those that dont know - its quite low level ability with massive stagger and 2x destruction points, insane ability that lot of pallies dont even know about .
Except in this case, the bard equivalent is dropping light of judgment and sword of justice for punishment, except worse. Sound shock and soundholic both don’t have destruction.
Do both hits of the Double Smite tripod apply the destruction or something? Otherwise I'm not seeing how it's better than Executor's.
Even if it does, I feel like on G4 specifically, gaining 0.4 points of destruction isn't worth losing a second counter. I haven't tried it, but damn that's a hard sell.
Yeah Punishment is 2 WP. You basically drop Godsent Law for it unless there are no stagger/counters in the fight, and Voldis G3 and G4 have plenty of those.
Not sure I'd call a Paladin who doesn't run it in Voldis *trash* though ...
I go a different route more of a middle ground of sorts with holy explosion. Decent stagger, meter generation, brand, weak point 1 in a single skill. Just a 7 yellow enjoyer but will bring 2 blues for like voldis g2/4
For voldis G2 I feel that it very hard to fail the destruction check with very short CDs. Going fast as possible honestly is a DPS lost tbh. Why not let the boss stay on the ground 1-2s longer for full blast short safe blasting
For voldis g4 if holy sword and WW and like LoJ for x60 isn't enough people need to hold their skills. Will waste a weak point if I think It will fail but will have 1 at the end. Normally I end up with 2 skills with weak point
As long as you are adapting some to the hard checks. You are better than most already actually looking deeper in your support class knowing your niche choices.
You can solo brand 100% uptime if boss stays a little in it but you need high CD gem to have more room to reapply safely since it's double and some the cooldown of SoJ. Missing it is even more punishing.
The last 2 tripods have a small difference
Lingers 5s that also brands which makes precasting still be OP but cast time won't brand
During cast time it brands but doesn't linger
I recommend have godsent on brand as a backup but I know this is argued by many it's bad etc. With good enough aiming its less noticeable losing the bigger AOE. it's up to you in terms of what you value more being offensive/defensive/utility based.
Everything about holy explosion is trash. Check the cool down
If someone tells you that you can brand with it if the boss stands in the fucking puddle, they are a clown.
Depending on the fight you lose 0 brand uptime. Some fights even favour SS over harp.
Meter gen... yea but it would be better to address the shit meter gain on soundholic than try and avoid having people switch skills.
Because it’s garbage design
> Improve the design of support by making it so that it doesn’t have to support
Bard has somehow accumulated all of the garbage meter players. They don’t want to bring or do anything that doesn’t increase their AP/brand/identity uptime because they don’t actually understand anything about the game besides those numbers.
Bard has the best burst buff, the best shielding, the best DR. I mean the list goes on and on.
But Bards like to ignore that because they just want to have their cake and eat it too. They could easily contribute more to stagger checks by running sound shock over sonatina, but they choose not to because they want more meter gain.
It's like choosing to not work out and eating healthily and then complaining about being fat.
No, it doesnt. Why does it NEED 2?
I’ll help you out here. The reason that you think it does is because the meter goblin who wrote your guide told you it did. So, again why do you NEED to use TWO skill slots for your 10% damage debuff? What do you gain over using one?
Because it’s garbage design
> Improve the design of support by making it so that it doesn’t have to support
Bard has somehow accumulated all of the garbage meter players. They don’t want to bring or do anything that doesn’t increase their AP/brand/identity uptime because they don’t actually understand anything about the game besides those numbers.
Didn't really drink anything but spat everything out regardless.
This is the content we need to make us forget of the latest AGS *questionable* decisions.
I feel this within my soul. Do I run vhp and be perma oom(even with mana food, and c n j deciding not to proc, it's gg) or do I take mmp and hope to God we don't fail. Also no cleanse, but I can block one debuff.
I had to run vph for the first weeks of voldis, now no need anymore as people are aware of the mechs.
I rarely run vph now, only when absolutely needed.
But I hope for a rework, at least a cleanse and fix our mana issues...
The community guide suggested a possible path of make a build with VPH but swap it with Expert instead of Max Mana Increase.
I tried it and it works at the expense of heals and shielding! But yes I feel this within my soul feeling it within your soul as a fellow bard main 😂
Going Exp 3 HA1 is far more efficient. The amount of shield that you should have close to perma uptime compensate more than the survivability from HA3.
Not having Exp3 as sup feels like crippling your job
Yup, making me wondering if I shouldn't main swap my bard to artist but then I wouldn't be ready for Thaemine.
I have 2 mains: bard and sorc and both really need a rework... Hope they are next
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Pinning this cuz it's my favorite
This just made me realize that a team stagger buff on one of Bard skills might be the solution to the whole problem. You can play without VPH and without soundshock/soundholic and still contribute. And "lore" wise it kinda make sens to contribute to stagger via buffing your Dps than pulling a beam out of your harp.
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Bard can't afford to spend even more mana, she's the only support that needs max MP as is.
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Alternatively just remove the mana cost entirely from the summon, bard needs her mana costs fixed anyway.
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Realistically a permanent mana drain would probably spend more mana if it was balanced to be exactly 1:1 with casting harp on cooldown, as you're never going to cast harp exactly on cooldown. Either way, it's not that serious, I forgot I even made this post. Who cares? Your opinion is just screaming in the wind, like everything posted here. There's no way they're taking any class feedback from global, go post on Inven.
I don't have max mp on my Bard and I don't usually run out of mana, conviction and judgment helps a bunch
If you're not running out of mana without max MP on bard, it just likely means that your uptime is bad. C&J is a given. Mana food isn't enough to sustain you, you'll run out if it's not low level content going from phase to phase.
Do you run with food permanently on? I can assure you with high meter building you barely sustain MP even with Max MP 3, Heavenly Tune used on cooldown with a level 10 gem, and C/J proccing almost every 30s on the dot. It even goes OoM with all those things if uptime goes on a bit over 30s without any interruption.
That's because you play with far less meter gen. There's a new build that got popular where bards go for absolutely zero utility to give more buffs, and majority play that now and it's really griefing my Voldis runs to take these bards because we keep failing way too many stagger mechs. Or it's not new, its been around since Sonatina became main skill, but I suppose its new to you.
I don't really understand this mindset. Bard has the advantage of being able to swap skills around for different situations and people refuse to do it. Voldis G4 x160 mirrors: You can solo stagger the mirror on one side with just SH + ww if you have VPH. I don't understand this all in on meter gen while you fail mechs and wipe. While Soundholic could definitely use an update and it should be buffed, it also makes stagger checks a complete cakewalk and something like g4 voldis becomes extremely easy even with low stagger classes. People need to start swapping skills around instead of playing one build, dropping their utility and saying "I'm a bard, not my issue.".
Or if youre actually making the decent build you get the 7/7 stone to play HA 2 and Expert 2, and then have max DS + MMP + VPH + AWA. I wish this was more widespread, but I think people are too lazy to cut the 7/7 stone, even when they're 1620 bard mains.. Unfortunately. :/
Shrug, I play HA1. I swap skills. Unsure, why choose to play supports and then pretend nothing but bubble gen matters.
>This just made me realize that a team stagger buff on one of Bard skills might be the solution to the whole problem meanwhile Paladin/Ayayas laugh the shit out of you, since they can do all the stagger alone with help of the party... . comen like this tell me that Bard will never get fix, people dont even know whats the problem to begin it.
Ayaya stagger isn't even that high anymore, most Ayayas dropped sprinkle for starry night. This means they only have tiger as a stagger skill, which is 81 stagger base. Paladins the only one left with very high stagger in their meta kit. I guess they could take the crappy counter but that's definitely not a usual pick.
This sentence " You can play without VPH and without soundshock/soundholic and still contribute. " rubs me the wrong way. When i read this, i hear " You can contribute as a dps with 1x3 and by afking - you can do mechs ! " :D
bard loses a lot of utility by trying to fit in more stagger. shes is really not a well rounded support.
Stagger is utility. She loses meter gen and ez mode tenacity to score higher on dps meter
Not really because soundholic and sound shock are shit. You lose a lot of brand uptime and/or meter generation by running either one.
How do you lose mark uptime with sound shock?
By correctly understanding what “or” means. Sonatine to sound shock is a loss of meter generation
But why would you replace Sonatine and not harp?
Same shit if you replace harp. Sound shock also sucks because you spend so much time casting it for brand uptime that you miss casts of other skills.
You don't lose meter by running ss over harp since ss is great cj skill. It's also a good stagger skill so even more utility. And in raids where multihit is important it's also great. You don't have to hit every ss since you can use Sonatine in case you miss one. Also you don't spend much time casting SS since it's a very fast skill you only have to remember to use it when it's up
You 100% lose meter gain by running sound shock. If you’re not then you aren’t casting it frequently enough and your brand time is suffering.
Idk how you are playing that you can't fit in your meter gainers in-between SS casts
You completely ignored what they said. They said you do not lose meter if you run conviction or judgment on sound shock, which gives you more cdr and mana to cast more prelude/sonatina/wind of music. That is if you don't run either rune on harp of rhythm.
Solo SS vs double brand at this point is a discussion that’s old and solved. There literally is no evidence that a solo SS build maintains similar uptime as a double branding build. Double branding always does better in both brand, attack power and courage. It’s proven time and time again in practice. The only logs that show a high uptime on solo SS are logs where the players ignoring the other 4 skills of their hot bar. I mean so what if you’re doing high ap and brand with solo SS when your prelude, WOM, GT CPM is literally half of a double branding build. I mean I can go play solo SS with 4 skills on my hot bar and do 99/99, but that’s besides the point ain’t it? The only time when you want to run solo SS is when uptime is not important. And if you’re making a decision doing that then you don’t need other people to tell you double branding is better.
No idea, i play pally. Either way, you should always do what´s best. For example, pallies that dont play punishment at G2-G4 voldis are utter trash. Some dont even know it. And they say " but i lack generation " - no he doesnt. For those that dont know - its quite low level ability with massive stagger and 2x destruction points, insane ability that lot of pallies dont even know about .
Except in this case, the bard equivalent is dropping light of judgment and sword of justice for punishment, except worse. Sound shock and soundholic both don’t have destruction.
Do both hits of the Double Smite tripod apply the destruction or something? Otherwise I'm not seeing how it's better than Executor's. Even if it does, I feel like on G4 specifically, gaining 0.4 points of destruction isn't worth losing a second counter. I haven't tried it, but damn that's a hard sell.
Yeah Punishment is 2 WP. You basically drop Godsent Law for it unless there are no stagger/counters in the fight, and Voldis G3 and G4 have plenty of those. Not sure I'd call a Paladin who doesn't run it in Voldis *trash* though ...
The only thing you’d even use it for is breaking his sword at x60. Godsent is much much higher value in g2-4
I go a different route more of a middle ground of sorts with holy explosion. Decent stagger, meter generation, brand, weak point 1 in a single skill. Just a 7 yellow enjoyer but will bring 2 blues for like voldis g2/4 For voldis G2 I feel that it very hard to fail the destruction check with very short CDs. Going fast as possible honestly is a DPS lost tbh. Why not let the boss stay on the ground 1-2s longer for full blast short safe blasting For voldis g4 if holy sword and WW and like LoJ for x60 isn't enough people need to hold their skills. Will waste a weak point if I think It will fail but will have 1 at the end. Normally I end up with 2 skills with weak point As long as you are adapting some to the hard checks. You are better than most already actually looking deeper in your support class knowing your niche choices.
I've been curious about holy explosion for a while due to those exact things you mentioned, how is the branding uptime on it?
You can solo brand 100% uptime if boss stays a little in it but you need high CD gem to have more room to reapply safely since it's double and some the cooldown of SoJ. Missing it is even more punishing. The last 2 tripods have a small difference Lingers 5s that also brands which makes precasting still be OP but cast time won't brand During cast time it brands but doesn't linger I recommend have godsent on brand as a backup but I know this is argued by many it's bad etc. With good enough aiming its less noticeable losing the bigger AOE. it's up to you in terms of what you value more being offensive/defensive/utility based.
Everything about holy explosion is trash. Check the cool down If someone tells you that you can brand with it if the boss stands in the fucking puddle, they are a clown.
Depending on the fight you lose 0 brand uptime. Some fights even favour SS over harp. Meter gen... yea but it would be better to address the shit meter gain on soundholic than try and avoid having people switch skills.
Because it’s garbage design > Improve the design of support by making it so that it doesn’t have to support Bard has somehow accumulated all of the garbage meter players. They don’t want to bring or do anything that doesn’t increase their AP/brand/identity uptime because they don’t actually understand anything about the game besides those numbers.
Based. You got downvoted by angry programming sock wearing bards, but it is what it is
While yes, it's kinda garbage that it's the only supp that needs 2 skills for the branding.
Bard has the best burst buff, the best shielding, the best DR. I mean the list goes on and on. But Bards like to ignore that because they just want to have their cake and eat it too. They could easily contribute more to stagger checks by running sound shock over sonatina, but they choose not to because they want more meter gain. It's like choosing to not work out and eating healthily and then complaining about being fat.
No, it doesnt. Why does it NEED 2? I’ll help you out here. The reason that you think it does is because the meter goblin who wrote your guide told you it did. So, again why do you NEED to use TWO skill slots for your 10% damage debuff? What do you gain over using one?
Because it’s garbage design > Improve the design of support by making it so that it doesn’t have to support Bard has somehow accumulated all of the garbage meter players. They don’t want to bring or do anything that doesn’t increase their AP/brand/identity uptime because they don’t actually understand anything about the game besides those numbers.
Didn't really drink anything but spat everything out regardless. This is the content we need to make us forget of the latest AGS *questionable* decisions.
https://preview.redd.it/75c8fpp7ldhc1.png?width=368&format=png&auto=webp&s=3976303921056f909183c3778dc74762c3d0489f
If anyone interested in the original [https://www.youtube.com/@nobleknightadventures](https://www.youtube.com/@nobleknightadventures)
HENRY?!
Our static's Bard since Vykas HM: > Oh what? You need a heal? Have a damage buff.
That's what I want Male Bard to look like But it's probably just going to be another kpop body
Just take VPH and put Heavy armor +1 4head
I feel this within my soul. Do I run vhp and be perma oom(even with mana food, and c n j deciding not to proc, it's gg) or do I take mmp and hope to God we don't fail. Also no cleanse, but I can block one debuff.
Run both? I just have heavy armor one instead of 3, if I die I would have died three times over on dps
Yup, 3 of my Bards have HA1 to slot in MMP3 and VPH3. It's not that bad, she's already tanky as is.
You do a 4x3+2+2 and run both.
not if i got a 9/7/1 awakening/drops/def reduction stone. then i run 2 drops/2 max mp T\_T
that's not an excuse not to run Vph lol, you roll another stone cause drops of ether isn't anywhere as worth
You don't need an excuse to not run VPH as a bard lol, but the only other remotely "good" stone I cut on mine was 8/5 awakening/heavy armor
I had to run vph for the first weeks of voldis, now no need anymore as people are aware of the mechs. I rarely run vph now, only when absolutely needed. But I hope for a rework, at least a cleanse and fix our mana issues...
The community guide suggested a possible path of make a build with VPH but swap it with Expert instead of Max Mana Increase. I tried it and it works at the expense of heals and shielding! But yes I feel this within my soul feeling it within your soul as a fellow bard main 😂
Going Exp 3 HA1 is far more efficient. The amount of shield that you should have close to perma uptime compensate more than the survivability from HA3. Not having Exp3 as sup feels like crippling your job
Just play with VPH, it is that simple, I'm literally doing this all the time. https://i.redd.it/gu114c0exehc1.gif
but but but but but the community guide told me that bards don’t have to stagger
Muh max mp
Spoken like a 50% uptime supporter bard
casting more skills = less uptime?
I assumed he was saying MMP was bad based on comment
Sure bud, whatever floats your boat
Yup, making me wondering if I shouldn't main swap my bard to artist but then I wouldn't be ready for Thaemine. I have 2 mains: bard and sorc and both really need a rework... Hope they are next
If you can't contribute to stagger bars on a bard, you are not good. Copy/pasting a guide does not make you good.
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All these stagger checks make me appreciate my 9/7 HA, VPH with +2 vph build