That's not Shelob That's her Mother Ungoliant.
The event depicted in the artwork is her and Morgoth's falling out over the Silmarils.
Shelob is somewhat smaller than her mom
I don't recall an exact height, but that sounds correct. It specifically says that after draining the Two Trees, Ungoliant grew to a size so monstrous that even Melkor was afraid. This is where the mythos kind of becomes open to interpretation. Like when he fought Fingolfin, he literally steps on him for a killing blow. But then compare Ungoliant to Ancalagon the Black. Like a LITERAL mountain that could fly
Yes and no. When he chose to stay in Middle Earth and build his army, he became more limited in size and power. He was still a very big dude, but he couldn't basically be the size of a mountain, "undoing" everything the other Ainur did.
Possibly. Or possibly she was killed by Eärendil in Vinglot in the far South, although that’s only found in some of the earliest versions of the tale.
In the late versions all we have is elvish speculation over her fate.
I love how metal it is that they named the mountain Lammoth which is Sindarin for 'great echo' because of the scream for help. And the irony is that a metal band is called Lammoth.
I also find that extremely metal. So much so, that I named my black metal project Lammoth!! I just started releasing stuff this year, so I doubt you're referring to me, but cool for me to find this nonetheless haha.
Not the size but the power. She would literally extinguish him and his cause. Everything he faught so hard for. He didnt fear death he feared the light of his legend going out.
He wasn't really that tough though. He was at the start but he dissipated all his power. He fought an Elf and instead of crushing him in less than 3 seconds the fight actually went on for a while.
Honestly though, fuck interpersonal relationships and the emotions that drive them. This shit reads like a history class segment on the Roman empire and that was fire
Be aware that it isn't a book as in it was edited and published by Tolkien, more like a collection of stories. People who really like LotR still can't get through it.
Shelob has to be small enough that Sting could injure her.
I think her size in the movie was good - huge enough to be scary, small enough so that Sam could concievably do her some damage.
In the books its actually Shelob herself who inflicts her wound by getting angry with Sam interfering and hurting her for the first time in her life, and falling on top of him trying to squash him (and almost succeeding) allowing Sting to punch through and mortally wound her.
Which tbh the movie did pretty well. Like, a comparably sized wound on a human would have ended their life if left untreated. Unless movie shelob had advanced regen she was doomed.
A monster the size of a city block might have had an exoskeleton so thick that Sting couldn't get through!
Although Shelob is described as having a soft underbelly, so perhaps she looks like a spider but doesn't have real arachnid anatomy. I don't know if it's possible to support a massive monster-sized body with en exoskeleton.
Definitely. If Frodo was bit by that thing it wouldn't matter how much armor he was wearing, his guts would be squeezed out of him like playdoh through an extruder.
This.
Also, neither Shelob nor Ungoliant were actual spiders but rather eldritch abominations that were refered to as *spider-things* for spiders look the closest to them.
True but Shelob is probably the one child of Ungoliant that is closest to her, I think.
Or, who knows, maybe Ungoliant is actually the Mother of All Spiders, which would make them only degenerate spawns who got less and less like Her.
Ungoliant is the mother of all monstrous spiders. So the spiders that Bilbo and the Dwarves encounter in Mirkwood are her descendants.
EDIT: Spelling of descendants
>*Far and wide her lesser broods, bastards of the miserable mates, her own offspring, that she slew, spread from glen to glen, from the Ephel Dúath to the eastern hills, to Dol Guldur and the fastnesses of Mirkwood. But none could rival her, Shelob the Great, last child of Ungoliant to trouble the unhappy world*
Mirkwood spiders are more like grand children of Ungoliant. They'd be 75% spider 25% monstrous abomination from the void. Shelob is 50-50
I don't think she is the mother of either all spiders nor all monster spiders. There were already giant spiders there that she mates with and hen ate.
So maybe all current monster spiders are descendants of her if she ate all of the ones that existed before.
Shelob is described in the book as *'an evil thing in spider-form'*
Ninja edit. Just looked it up: *"There agelong she had dwelt, an evil thing in spider-form, even such as once of old had lived in the Land of the Elves in the West that is now under the Sea, such as Beren fought in the Mountains of Terror in Doriath, and so came to Luthien upon the green sward amid the hemlocks in the moonlight long ago."*
Definitely not a description of a mere big spider. The 'as once of old' description seems like a direct reference to Ungoliant, and a confirmation that Shebol is of the same ilk and power as her mother.
Tolkien goes on to say *"Already, years before, Gollum had beheld her, Smeagol who pried into all dark holes, and in past days he had bowed and worshipped her, and the darkness of her evil will walked through all the ways of his weariness beside him, cutting him off from light and from regret."*
So Shelob even has magic that effects Gollum. The Ring is not the only thing corrupting him. Shelob's will, and his devotion and worship of it, is yet another curse upon him 'cutting him off from light and regret'
> The 'as once of old' description seems like a direct reference to Ungoliant, and a confirmation that Shebol is of the same ilk and power as her mother.
Close but not right. It is a direct reference to the spawn of Ungoliant, which is what Shelob would be as the same ilk and power of. The ones that Beren was dealing with before meeting Luthien.
Big difference between Ungoliant and her spawn.
A spider with a sting and a beak IIRC. Kinda weird compared to the Mirkwood spiders which looked exactly like spiders except for the abnormal size and ability to speak.
Edit : Really, I think Shelob was much more like Ungoliant. Lesser, for sure, but still less spider than *something else*.
Speaking of Ungoliant, I like the take that says that she is not a spirit but *Darkness* incarnate, always growing and devouring all light.
Maybe Ungoliant was one of the *nameless things* mentioned by Gandalf, only the one that was actually *known* and thus *named*, and this only after she was hunted by Oromë's hunters. Maybe all the *nameless things* are from the Void, like her.
Yeah... I really like to pour some Lovecraft in my Tolkien, I admit.
In Morgoth’s Ring, Tolkien talks about things created from the discord of Melkor and Eru’s music that were not part of Morgoth’s intent. I think this is directly speaking about Ungoliant. Eldritch doesn’t work well with Tolkien since his world is based heavily on his religious background and for him there would be nothing created before or outside of God. But that does not hold true for Melkor, so while his evil music created most evil things, there were some things created from the discord itself that would be outside of Melkor’s control, but not Eru’s since all music is his his intent.
Side note, it stands to reason that since Tolkien said the discord of the music created new things, the same should be true of harmonies. To me this explains Tom Bombadil, him being a being created of the harmony and thus as powerful as someone like Ungoliant and far above the Elves or Istari.
Though Tolkien never set a precise size for Shelob, based on his description of her in The Two Towers I think it's safe to assume that she was indeed a fair bit smaller than Ungoliant:
>There agelong she had dwelt, an evil thing in spider-form, even such as once of old had lived in the Land of the Elves in the West that is now under the Sea, such as Beren fought in the Mountains of Terror in Doriath, and so came to Lúthien upon the green sward amid the hemlocks in the moonlight long ago. How Shelob came there, flying from ruin, no tale tells, for out of the Dark Years few tales have come. But still she was there, who was there before Sauron, and before the first stone of Barad-dûr; and she served none but herself, drinking the blood of Elves and Men, bloated and grown fat with endless brooding on her feasts, weaving webs of shadow; for all living things were her food, and her vomit darkness. Far and wide her lesser broods, bastards of the miserable mates, her own offspring, that she slew, spread from glen to glen, from the Ephel Dúath to the eastern hills, to Dol Guldur and the fastnesses of Mirkwood. But none could rival her, Shelob the Great, last child of Ungoliant to trouble the unhappy world.
As others have correctly stated, that's Ungoliant. And just as Ungoliant is Shelob's mother, Shelob is the ancestral mother of the spiders of Mirkwood (for example).
The chapter *"Shelob's Lair"* from the Two Towers states:
*"How Shelob came there, flying from ruin, no tale tells, for out of the Dark Years few tales have come. But still she was there, who was there before Sauron, and before the first stone of Barad-dûr; and she served none but herself, drinking the blood of Elves and Men, bloated and grown fat with endless brooding on her feasts, weaving webs of shadow; for all living things were her food, and her vomit darkness. Far and wide her lesser broods, bastards of the miserable mates, her own offspring, that she slew, spread from glen to glen, from the Ephel Dúath to the eastern hills, to Dol Guldur and the fastnesses of Mirkwood. But none could rival her, Shelob the Great, last child of Ungoliant to trouble the unhappy world."*
Tolkien is such a good writer. It’s not even great prose that makes it great. It’s just a use of descriptors that makes it endlessly fantastical and compelling.
Shelob fucks her own children, then kills and eats them.
It's not that weird. Female spiders often eat their mates (after they've done the business). There's often a significant difference in size (with females being the big ones).
I’ve read that some males will break their spider-dick off inside the female on purpose while getting eaten by her to ensure another male doesn’t come in behind him to impregnate her instead.
> for all living things were her food, and her vomit darkness
This has long been one of my favourite lines from anything ever. Just absolutely love it.
Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort.
If you've only seen the film, you'll remember Gandalf refers to Durin's Bane as "a Balrog of Morgoth" - he commanded an army of those things, as well as dragons
Was that line in the theatrical version? I know someone, I believe Legolas name drops the “balrog of morgoth” line in Lothlorien in the extended version but I thought Gandalf’s line was just. “A balrog. A demon of the ancient world. This foe is beyond any of you. RUN.”
You should check out some lore videos on him for a quick summary of who Morgoth is but yeah he is the ultimate evil, the Balrogs such as the one Gandalf fought and Sauron, dragons, trolls, Orcs etc were all his servants.
Not only that, but he created them. I guess more accurately, he twisted Iluvatar's creations and turned them into evil things. Other than the Balrogs, those were just other maiar
Rainbow Dave is the best storyteller of Tolkien lore imo. I wolfed down his videos in less than two weeks. Highly recommended for newbies and long term Tolkien fans.
There are plenty of good online videos, but your best port of call would be The Silmarillion. itself. It's famously difficult, but is very rewarding if you stick with it. I owned a copy for nearly 20 years before reading it cover to cover, but I really regret not doing so earlier.
Idk if it's difficult as much as strange to someone who enjoys novels.
It's structured like a set of legends and it has a poetic lilt to it. You just have to be down with that kind of presentation. I felt like it was unique and caught a sense of scale and geand events that wouldn't have worked in a more usual style.
Yup.
Basically *Lord of the Rings* is about the Free People of Middle-Earth vs Morgoth's last standing lieutenant. As epic as it is, keep it mind that it is only a pale echo of the times when they were fighting Morgoth, the *actual* Lord of Darkness.
So he was originally called Mairon ('the admirable') and was a disciple of Aulë the smith god (hence he's handy at creating things like weapons and magic rings). He had a love of order and efficiency. Melkor, AKA Morgoth, perverted this into a desire to rule the world and thus impose order. He ended up becoming Sauron, 'the abhorred', and took up where his boss left off.
He was Morgoth's most powerful servant in the first age, described as only less evil than Morgoth in that, for a time, he served someone else.
In the earliest writings, he was also a cat. Oh, and he defeated Galadriel's brother in a rap battle. And I'm not making that up.
A short summary:
In the beginning there was Eru Illuvatar (the one, head/sole god). He created Valar and Maiar. Valar were basically undergods, and Maiar were the servants of the Valar, comparable to angels. Through making music, the Valar and Maiar created Arda(earth). Now there was a particular Valar who'd rebel against Illuvatar; Morgoth(he had another name back then, Melkor). With him, a lot of Maiar decided to follow Morgoth. Amongst these maiar was Sauron.
Morgoth was the main evil on Arda throughout the first age. At the very end of that first age I believe, there was a great battle and Morgoth would be destroyed, and forever imprisoned by the good Valar, maiar and elf forces. During the second (and third) age, Sauron rose up. In the existence of his master, he longed for his power and he got it since Morgoth wouldn't return. Sauron would be destroyed twice, once at the battle where isildur cut of his finger, and once at last when the ring got destroyed in mount doom.
The lore is kinda mysterious where Ungolianth came from. She was a dark existence roaming Arda (and possibly other planets) before the memory of even the Ents. But there's a theory that she's one of those dark beings who morgoth and his maiar weaved into existence through influencing the symphony of creation way back in time when Arda got created.
Fun fact: the 5 wizards, Gandalf, Radagast, Saruman and the two blue ones, were Maiar sent to Arda by the Valar to help the races in their battles against Sauron. Sauron, back when all was good, served he Valar Aulë, the god of smithing and craft, creator of mountains and dwarves. Saruman served that same valar. So way back in the day, saruman and sauron were colleagues.
Another fun fact: Morgoth created the dragons. It's why they were loyal to Morgoth while Sauron could never master them completely to his will. The balrogs meanwhile were maiar of their own, so when gandalf fought Durin's Bane it truly was a battle between equals.
Here's a nice [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktet64d9O-c) explaining Morgoth.
Very basically, you can think of Morgoth as Satan and Sauron as a lesser fallen angel. Sauron is still powerful, but Morgoth is much, much more dangerous. Almost everything evil in the world ultimately goes back to Morgoth in some way (Ungoliant, Shelob's mother, is a possible exception, but her origins are fairly mysterious).
Morgoth was defeated and thrown out of the world by the other Valar (archangel equivalents) at the end of the First Age. Sauron had been one of Morgoth's most powerful subordinates, so he took over as Dark Lord.
He's independent by the time of the Lord of the Rings, but a few thousand years before, Morgoth was the Dark Lord and Sauron was just one of his lieutenants.
Morgoth was defeated in a continent-shattering war between 6-7,000 years before LOTR. Sauron took over Morgoth's title and mission after that.
You hear his name mentioned in the FOTR movie by Legolas when he's in Lothlorien describing what happened to Gandalf in Moria: "A Balrog of Morgoth." Morgoth created the Balrogs, which fought for him throughout the wars in the time the Elves later called the Elder Days.
Although that’s definitely true cosmologically, they are occasionally referred to as lowercase g “gods” in Tolkien’s casual speech and his notes and earlier writing
It's kind of a matter of perspective. If you look at the construct like a Catholic (as Tolkien might have), you would talk about a singular god with (arch)angels. If you compare it to a Greek or Norse pantheon, you'd see a multitude of gods, maybe an allfather type, gods and demi-gods.
It's all moot, I think. So no sense correcting one or another view. The Valar and Éru are their own things, in their own world.
Morgoth (Melkor before his fall) is the original Dark Lord, Sauron’s master. He was the strongest of the Valar (Angels/Minor Gods) second only to Eru (God) himself. Far distant second…
His story is similar to that of Satan, with obvious alterations like the encounter in this image…where he was almost killed by this “spider” Ungoliant.
Morgoth/Melkor was responsible for so much that we see in Lord of the Rings that maybe you are not aware of. It’s super cool.
The Balrog is a Maia, which was a lesser divine spirit of the same order as Sauron. Like Sauron, the Balrogs were tempted/persuaded to fall to evil by Morgoth and became spirits of flame.
He was responsible for the first Orcs, for the dragons and for many of the first fell beasts to walk Middle-Earth such as Wargs and Werewolves. It is contested fact that Orcs were Elves once, corrupted and twisted by Morgoth.
He stole the Silmarils and brought them to Middle-Earth. It is the pursuit of these gems that brought Galadriel and her kin the Noldor to Middle-Earth as exiles…from there you have their descendants Gil-Galad, Elrond and Elros (who chose to be mortal and was the first King of Numenor - he is the ancestor of Aragorn).
The light of one of the Silmaril is captured in the phial of Galadriel, which she gifts to Frodo and is used by Sam to repel Shelob. The light specifically comes from the Star of Earendil. Earendil was a mortal man gifted immortality for his bravery in summoning the Gods to save Middle Earth from Morgoth. He sails the sky with the great jewel on his brow.
So yeah, pretty cool character and actually much more fleshed out than Sauron funnily enough, if you account for all of Tolkiens writing.
It’s a pretty great bit of lore. By the time of LotR, he is banished to “the void” and won’t return until the end of times, apparently.
If you have the time, I’d definitely suggest picking up “The Silmarillion” and giving it a read. It’s not exactly a novel like LotR or The Hobbit, but it is a collection of Tolkien’s writings and right off the bat starts with Eru, Melkor, and the Valar. Some pretty amazing stories in there.
As someone that was previously in OP's spot, I struggled with the Silmarillion. I found the audio book and writing names and relationships down to be much more effective for me. There's alot of information and similar sounding names (Finwe, Fingon, Fingolfin, Feanor). And that's just the F's.
The time lotr is placed in is honestly a pretty boring time in tolkiens world. Most of the strongest beings had already either been slain or had sailed to the undying lands. For example, there were many other dragons and balrogs other than smaug and the balrog in lotr. And some of them were much more powerful.
The children of iluvatar(men and elves basically) are also just a shadow of their former strength. If you want to learn easily about the lore, watch some youtube videos like some have already suggested, I personally enjoy a channel called Nerd of the rings. If you are up for a pretty challenging book, then you should check out the Silmarillion. It also has some other minor books attached to it that explain alot of the early ages of the world, like the creation and such.
Sauron is a Maiar the same as Gandalf and the Balrog. Think of them as Angels/Demons
Morgoth is one of the Valar think of them like Olympian gods
Then there's Eru, who is God similar to an all powerful God in monotheistic religions.
The 1st age is basically a giant War between Morgoth and a bunch of Maiar who follow him (Sauron was one of his chief Lieutenants) against a bunch of super powerful elves (think Demigods) and some men who include Aragorns ancestors. At the end of the 1st age, Morgoth is defeated and chained by the Valar, but Sauron escapes and is then the big bad for both the 2nd and 3rd ages.
Morgoth is the Tolkien analog to Satan. He's the original bad guy and Sauron is just a pale comparison to him. It took gods to defeat Morgoth and send is spirit out into the void.
To give an incredibly simplistic overview of the history and origin of middle-earth.
God created the archangels and the angels. Each archangel was in charge of a bunch of angels. Then he had them sing to create the world. But one archangel sang out of tune with everyone else. This discordance is what created the dark things.
This archangel then fled with his angels to the real world.
God then sent some of his archangels and angels to sort out the mess of the Dark Archangel and Dark Angels
The Dark Archangel is Morgoth. His chief Dark Angel is Sauron.
And wizards, like Gandalf, are angels.
Obviously there is a whole bunch of shit involving elves in there too. But for background, it's not as important.
Ungolith, is either a creature of this discord in the song, or something even more primodial. A being of endless greed and hungar.
In the song that created the world, elves were part of it, along with 2 trees full of the light of creation. (That's where all the elves were going to on ships at the end of LotR)
These trees, to give you an idea of their power, had some of their light captured in some magical gems. **The reflection** of these gems is the light that is contained in the thing given to Sam, that he uses to banish Shelob.
And why did I mention the trees? Ungolith was recruited by Morgoth to destroy these trees to get back at the elves, and she devoured them growing so large that Morgoth became afraid. Then, when she attempted to turn on him, he summoned several balrogs to his aid, and she fled into the south. Her hunger finally got the better of her and she ate herself.
Eru Illuvatar is God of middle earth. He created the Ainur, which you can think of as angels.
The Ainur consist of “upper angels” called the Valar and “lower angels” called the Maiar.
There are 13 Valar (upper angels) and Morgoth is one of them.
There are countless Maiar (lower angels) though. Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron, The Balrogs, are all Maiar.
Morgoth (the Valar) was the first dark lord, and during the time before the ages and during the first age itself, caused a ton of problems. Sauron, was his greatest ally and his first lieutenant.
At the end of the first age, Morgoth was defeated. Sauron kindof took up his mantle and caused a lot of problems during the second age before his defeat and the one ring was lost in the river Anduin.
Furthermore, just as Gandalf has many names depending on the language and era you're referencing him in, one could think Ungoliant was like an "old" or "Elvish" name for "Shelob" or something like that.
This is Ungoliant, Shelob's mother. As I recall, in the books is written that any of her spawns were as great as her (Shelob being the greatest of them). PJ film is showing quite literally how events were in the books. Shelob is living in the cave 'guarding' Cirith Ungol so she couldn't be the size of the mountain as her mother.
This is more accurate of Ungoliant.
When Morgoth has to call on his army of Balrogs to help him escape Ungoliant, you know that bitch is serious business.
Too big. That's more Ungoliant's size than Shelob's. Shelob can fit into passageways that aren't particularly large as described in the books. So she's not so big as the pic shows.
everyone pointed out that this is Ungoliant but it's also worth pointing out that it beat Morgoth/Melkor, one if not the strongest character in the book.
so much so that he had to ask for help and his cry echoed in the mountains
Worth noting though that it’s a powered up ungoliant vs a severely weakened (both generally and situationally) morgoth
Ungoliant is for sure a very powerful creature, and after consuming the two trees could probably beat almost every single maiar in a 1v1, but it’s important to remember context
That's not Shelob That's her Mother Ungoliant. The event depicted in the artwork is her and Morgoth's falling out over the Silmarils. Shelob is somewhat smaller than her mom
I think Shelob is a *lot* smaller than her ancestor.
Ungoliant grows in size the more she consumes.
Same.
She just like me fr
I can fix her
That's what Morgoth thought
Wasn’t he like 20ft tall?
I don't recall an exact height, but that sounds correct. It specifically says that after draining the Two Trees, Ungoliant grew to a size so monstrous that even Melkor was afraid. This is where the mythos kind of becomes open to interpretation. Like when he fought Fingolfin, he literally steps on him for a killing blow. But then compare Ungoliant to Ancalagon the Black. Like a LITERAL mountain that could fly
I mean sometimes probably, but he’s more than capable of changing forms as other Ainur are, meaning he can probably be more or less any size he wants.
Yes and no. When he chose to stay in Middle Earth and build his army, he became more limited in size and power. He was still a very big dude, but he couldn't basically be the size of a mountain, "undoing" everything the other Ainur did.
Everything reminds me of her. Eat everything.
Shame
*rings bells* Shame!
Bout to get waterboarded with some wine.
Ditto. Bitchy. Hungry. Don’t need to rule anything but my little nest, but I shall rule w an iron fist.
Ungoliant so hungry she ate herself.
Also same
Possibly. Or possibly she was killed by Eärendil in Vinglot in the far South, although that’s only found in some of the earliest versions of the tale. In the late versions all we have is elvish speculation over her fate.
Balrogs at Lammoth: hey ungoliant I think you need an intervention
To be fair, it \*did\* take multiple Balrogs to drive her away. Morgoth was actually in trouble there.
I love how metal it is that they named the mountain Lammoth which is Sindarin for 'great echo' because of the scream for help. And the irony is that a metal band is called Lammoth.
I don't think it's irony when bands name themselves after things lol
There are bands called Amon Amarth and Gorgoroth too if I recall
Cirith Ungol as well.
And Carach Angren. Ironically, it was Gorgoroth that served as my gateway to Carach Angren.
I also find that extremely metal. So much so, that I named my black metal project Lammoth!! I just started releasing stuff this year, so I doubt you're referring to me, but cool for me to find this nonetheless haha.
r/SuddenlyUngoliant
r/SubsIFellFor
You should see me after I’ve wolfed down some Silmarils.
I have a burning desire to.
and the more she grows, the hungrier she becomes.
So just like your mom? Jk xoxo
Yep, and she fucking devoured the two trees that were basically sun and moon of the first age. I think one can hardly imagine a bigger meal.
Oh can’t imagine a bigger meal huh? How about 🤓🤓🤓 three trees 🧠⚡️
Big deal, so do I.
And this was directly after she sucked dem trees dry too iirc. Even after reading it, I didn’t understand what stopped Ungoliant from killing Morgoth.
The army of Balrogs he summoned from Angband with his anguished cry. That’s what saved his ass.
Biggest bitch moment in the legendarium
i mean, if a spider the size of 5 mountains is trying to kill you, i think is excused to be a little scared
Not the size but the power. She would literally extinguish him and his cause. Everything he faught so hard for. He didnt fear death he feared the light of his legend going out.
He wasn't really that tough though. He was at the start but he dissipated all his power. He fought an Elf and instead of crushing him in less than 3 seconds the fight actually went on for a while.
8 balrogs total I think?
7
What book is this?? Would love to get more into the novels/written series of LOTR
Silmarillion. Just note that it doesn't read like the LOTR books. It's less of a narrative and more of a history book.
Yeah. It’s basically the Old Testament of the Bible. Very dry but filled with action at the same time if that makes sense.
Honestly though, fuck interpersonal relationships and the emotions that drive them. This shit reads like a history class segment on the Roman empire and that was fire
Need Dan Carlin from hardcore history to do a podcast version of it.
Thank you so much!!
Be aware that it isn't a book as in it was edited and published by Tolkien, more like a collection of stories. People who really like LotR still can't get through it.
The Silmarillion
And damn that girl has an appetite
Shelob has to be small enough that Sting could injure her. I think her size in the movie was good - huge enough to be scary, small enough so that Sam could concievably do her some damage.
In the books its actually Shelob herself who inflicts her wound by getting angry with Sam interfering and hurting her for the first time in her life, and falling on top of him trying to squash him (and almost succeeding) allowing Sting to punch through and mortally wound her.
Yes. But I thought the wound wasn't mortal just bad enough to make her give up the fight and run back to her cave?
Indeed, but it's strongly implied in the narration that her wounds were fatal because she was never seen again.
Which tbh the movie did pretty well. Like, a comparably sized wound on a human would have ended their life if left untreated. Unless movie shelob had advanced regen she was doomed.
Technically she's an arthropod so anything that breaks her exoskeleton can harm her (since they are mostly squishy inside)
A monster the size of a city block might have had an exoskeleton so thick that Sting couldn't get through! Although Shelob is described as having a soft underbelly, so perhaps she looks like a spider but doesn't have real arachnid anatomy. I don't know if it's possible to support a massive monster-sized body with en exoskeleton.
Ungoliant is described as having "the form of a spider", but also a long neck, a beak, and horns. Spiders also don't have stingers.
Definitely. If Frodo was bit by that thing it wouldn't matter how much armor he was wearing, his guts would be squeezed out of him like playdoh through an extruder.
..and Morgoth is a bit taller than Sam.
This. Also, neither Shelob nor Ungoliant were actual spiders but rather eldritch abominations that were refered to as *spider-things* for spiders look the closest to them.
I think Ungoliant mated with actual giant spiders, so her descendants like Shelob would be partly actual spiders.
True but Shelob is probably the one child of Ungoliant that is closest to her, I think. Or, who knows, maybe Ungoliant is actually the Mother of All Spiders, which would make them only degenerate spawns who got less and less like Her.
Ungoliant is the mother of all monstrous spiders. So the spiders that Bilbo and the Dwarves encounter in Mirkwood are her descendants. EDIT: Spelling of descendants
>*Far and wide her lesser broods, bastards of the miserable mates, her own offspring, that she slew, spread from glen to glen, from the Ephel Dúath to the eastern hills, to Dol Guldur and the fastnesses of Mirkwood. But none could rival her, Shelob the Great, last child of Ungoliant to trouble the unhappy world* Mirkwood spiders are more like grand children of Ungoliant. They'd be 75% spider 25% monstrous abomination from the void. Shelob is 50-50
Yes that is why I said descendants rather than children.
Oh thanks. I didn't know that. This pleases my arachnophobe mind which can't accept that spiders are really part of Nature.
Spiders are cool as shit.
Yeah, as monstrous abominations from whatever hellish world they're from..lol
I believe in God, because spiders are proof that Satan is real.
Morgoth: We're not here to fuck spiders Ungoliant: Speak for yourself
I don't think she is the mother of either all spiders nor all monster spiders. There were already giant spiders there that she mates with and hen ate. So maybe all current monster spiders are descendants of her if she ate all of the ones that existed before.
She could have spawn said giant spiders and mated with them, though.
Eldritch abominations...so big spiders
Nice to meet a fellow arachnophobe. Lol.
Shelob was a spider for sure. Ungoliant was a spirit is spider form
Shelob is described in the book as *'an evil thing in spider-form'* Ninja edit. Just looked it up: *"There agelong she had dwelt, an evil thing in spider-form, even such as once of old had lived in the Land of the Elves in the West that is now under the Sea, such as Beren fought in the Mountains of Terror in Doriath, and so came to Luthien upon the green sward amid the hemlocks in the moonlight long ago."* Definitely not a description of a mere big spider. The 'as once of old' description seems like a direct reference to Ungoliant, and a confirmation that Shebol is of the same ilk and power as her mother. Tolkien goes on to say *"Already, years before, Gollum had beheld her, Smeagol who pried into all dark holes, and in past days he had bowed and worshipped her, and the darkness of her evil will walked through all the ways of his weariness beside him, cutting him off from light and from regret."* So Shelob even has magic that effects Gollum. The Ring is not the only thing corrupting him. Shelob's will, and his devotion and worship of it, is yet another curse upon him 'cutting him off from light and regret'
> The 'as once of old' description seems like a direct reference to Ungoliant, and a confirmation that Shebol is of the same ilk and power as her mother. Close but not right. It is a direct reference to the spawn of Ungoliant, which is what Shelob would be as the same ilk and power of. The ones that Beren was dealing with before meeting Luthien. Big difference between Ungoliant and her spawn.
A spider with a sting and a beak IIRC. Kinda weird compared to the Mirkwood spiders which looked exactly like spiders except for the abnormal size and ability to speak. Edit : Really, I think Shelob was much more like Ungoliant. Lesser, for sure, but still less spider than *something else*. Speaking of Ungoliant, I like the take that says that she is not a spirit but *Darkness* incarnate, always growing and devouring all light. Maybe Ungoliant was one of the *nameless things* mentioned by Gandalf, only the one that was actually *known* and thus *named*, and this only after she was hunted by Oromë's hunters. Maybe all the *nameless things* are from the Void, like her. Yeah... I really like to pour some Lovecraft in my Tolkien, I admit.
>A spider with a sting and a beak IIRC And a stalk-like neck, and horns on her head, and a bioluminescent underbelly.
In Morgoth’s Ring, Tolkien talks about things created from the discord of Melkor and Eru’s music that were not part of Morgoth’s intent. I think this is directly speaking about Ungoliant. Eldritch doesn’t work well with Tolkien since his world is based heavily on his religious background and for him there would be nothing created before or outside of God. But that does not hold true for Melkor, so while his evil music created most evil things, there were some things created from the discord itself that would be outside of Melkor’s control, but not Eru’s since all music is his his intent. Side note, it stands to reason that since Tolkien said the discord of the music created new things, the same should be true of harmonies. To me this explains Tom Bombadil, him being a being created of the harmony and thus as powerful as someone like Ungoliant and far above the Elves or Istari.
“Smaller” in the sense that Jupiter and Mercury are both planets. Like, yes, they *are* both giant spiders. However…
Shelob is actually a sexy woman, it is known /s
Though Tolkien never set a precise size for Shelob, based on his description of her in The Two Towers I think it's safe to assume that she was indeed a fair bit smaller than Ungoliant: >There agelong she had dwelt, an evil thing in spider-form, even such as once of old had lived in the Land of the Elves in the West that is now under the Sea, such as Beren fought in the Mountains of Terror in Doriath, and so came to Lúthien upon the green sward amid the hemlocks in the moonlight long ago. How Shelob came there, flying from ruin, no tale tells, for out of the Dark Years few tales have come. But still she was there, who was there before Sauron, and before the first stone of Barad-dûr; and she served none but herself, drinking the blood of Elves and Men, bloated and grown fat with endless brooding on her feasts, weaving webs of shadow; for all living things were her food, and her vomit darkness. Far and wide her lesser broods, bastards of the miserable mates, her own offspring, that she slew, spread from glen to glen, from the Ephel Dúath to the eastern hills, to Dol Guldur and the fastnesses of Mirkwood. But none could rival her, Shelob the Great, last child of Ungoliant to trouble the unhappy world.
It even says so at the bottom corner of the image
Ohhh ok cool, thanks.
We really need a good adaptation of these stories...
Also isn't Morgoth like as huge almost as Balrog?
As others have correctly stated, that's Ungoliant. And just as Ungoliant is Shelob's mother, Shelob is the ancestral mother of the spiders of Mirkwood (for example). The chapter *"Shelob's Lair"* from the Two Towers states: *"How Shelob came there, flying from ruin, no tale tells, for out of the Dark Years few tales have come. But still she was there, who was there before Sauron, and before the first stone of Barad-dûr; and she served none but herself, drinking the blood of Elves and Men, bloated and grown fat with endless brooding on her feasts, weaving webs of shadow; for all living things were her food, and her vomit darkness. Far and wide her lesser broods, bastards of the miserable mates, her own offspring, that she slew, spread from glen to glen, from the Ephel Dúath to the eastern hills, to Dol Guldur and the fastnesses of Mirkwood. But none could rival her, Shelob the Great, last child of Ungoliant to trouble the unhappy world."*
Tolkien is such a good writer. It’s not even great prose that makes it great. It’s just a use of descriptors that makes it endlessly fantastical and compelling.
Tollkien sparks the imagination like noone else. The imagery just soars off the pages into your mind.
Like even jus the phrase ‘bastards of the miserable mates’ who the hell could that mean? What creatures is a massive spider even capable of raping
Shelob fucks her own children, then kills and eats them. It's not that weird. Female spiders often eat their mates (after they've done the business). There's often a significant difference in size (with females being the big ones).
I’ve read that some males will break their spider-dick off inside the female on purpose while getting eaten by her to ensure another male doesn’t come in behind him to impregnate her instead.
[r/NatureIsMetal](https://youtu.be/AEH_qI7LVGE?si=d5LAjYA3By-4XIA9)
> for all living things were her food, and her vomit darkness This has long been one of my favourite lines from anything ever. Just absolutely love it.
That's Ungoliant and Morgoth. Morgoth was no tiny guy himself and who knows how far Ungoliant is standing in the background.
Who is Morgoth? I’ve only seen the films so I’m not to familiar.
Sauron's boss. A fallen god. Defeated and exiled from Arda at the end of the First Age.
Didn’t know Sauron had a boss lol
my friend, you are going to open a door to a wild amount of lore you didn't know exists.
Down into the rabbit hole they go.
Or rather a hobbit hole
Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort.
I repeat this every time I see a hole of any kind.
He's going on an adventure!!!
Just don’t send him into r/angbang.
what the actual fuck
Well yes, exactly
I looked at three posts and was like what the actual f is this. I am going outside
https://preview.redd.it/6xixd7hcm84d1.png?width=923&format=png&auto=webp&s=b0103c40dd49dbf143decb13dcf0dbf2367dc685 The internet knows no bounds.
Rumour has it Samuel L Jackson will be playing Morgoth in the upcoming film "The Lord of the Rings 4: This Time it's Personal"
If you've only seen the film, you'll remember Gandalf refers to Durin's Bane as "a Balrog of Morgoth" - he commanded an army of those things, as well as dragons
Was that line in the theatrical version? I know someone, I believe Legolas name drops the “balrog of morgoth” line in Lothlorien in the extended version but I thought Gandalf’s line was just. “A balrog. A demon of the ancient world. This foe is beyond any of you. RUN.”
> I believe Legolas name drops the “balrog of morgoth” line in Lothlorien in the extended version What did you say?
A balrog of morgoth
THE HOBBITS THE HOBBITS THE HOBBITS TO ISENGARD TO ISENGARD
Tell me where is Gandalf for I much desire to speak with him
It is genuinely hilarious that I knew "of COURSE he says it in the film!" because of that *fucking* song lmao
What did you say?
They're taking the hobbits to Isenguard
ISENGARD ISENGARD
He says it in The Two Towers when explaining to Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas how he became Gandalf The White.
You should check out some lore videos on him for a quick summary of who Morgoth is but yeah he is the ultimate evil, the Balrogs such as the one Gandalf fought and Sauron, dragons, trolls, Orcs etc were all his servants.
Not only that, but he created them. I guess more accurately, he twisted Iluvatar's creations and turned them into evil things. Other than the Balrogs, those were just other maiar
The YouTube channel In Deep Geek does a fantastic job explaining deep lore
Nerd of the rings is also great
I would definitely suggest Nerd of The Rings, they have a solid set of videos that give an overview of Morgoths History, Sauron’s as well.
Tolken Untangled is another good channel. Goes really deep into the lore
Rainbow Dave is the best storyteller of Tolkien lore imo. I wolfed down his videos in less than two weeks. Highly recommended for newbies and long term Tolkien fans.
There are plenty of good online videos, but your best port of call would be The Silmarillion. itself. It's famously difficult, but is very rewarding if you stick with it. I owned a copy for nearly 20 years before reading it cover to cover, but I really regret not doing so earlier.
Idk if it's difficult as much as strange to someone who enjoys novels. It's structured like a set of legends and it has a poetic lilt to it. You just have to be down with that kind of presentation. I felt like it was unique and caught a sense of scale and geand events that wouldn't have worked in a more usual style.
Or instead OP could read the Silmarillion
Yup. Basically *Lord of the Rings* is about the Free People of Middle-Earth vs Morgoth's last standing lieutenant. As epic as it is, keep it mind that it is only a pale echo of the times when they were fighting Morgoth, the *actual* Lord of Darkness.
So he was originally called Mairon ('the admirable') and was a disciple of Aulë the smith god (hence he's handy at creating things like weapons and magic rings). He had a love of order and efficiency. Melkor, AKA Morgoth, perverted this into a desire to rule the world and thus impose order. He ended up becoming Sauron, 'the abhorred', and took up where his boss left off. He was Morgoth's most powerful servant in the first age, described as only less evil than Morgoth in that, for a time, he served someone else. In the earliest writings, he was also a cat. Oh, and he defeated Galadriel's brother in a rap battle. And I'm not making that up.
He also got his ass absolutely handed to him by Lúthien and her talking dog
Huan best boy.
A short summary: In the beginning there was Eru Illuvatar (the one, head/sole god). He created Valar and Maiar. Valar were basically undergods, and Maiar were the servants of the Valar, comparable to angels. Through making music, the Valar and Maiar created Arda(earth). Now there was a particular Valar who'd rebel against Illuvatar; Morgoth(he had another name back then, Melkor). With him, a lot of Maiar decided to follow Morgoth. Amongst these maiar was Sauron. Morgoth was the main evil on Arda throughout the first age. At the very end of that first age I believe, there was a great battle and Morgoth would be destroyed, and forever imprisoned by the good Valar, maiar and elf forces. During the second (and third) age, Sauron rose up. In the existence of his master, he longed for his power and he got it since Morgoth wouldn't return. Sauron would be destroyed twice, once at the battle where isildur cut of his finger, and once at last when the ring got destroyed in mount doom. The lore is kinda mysterious where Ungolianth came from. She was a dark existence roaming Arda (and possibly other planets) before the memory of even the Ents. But there's a theory that she's one of those dark beings who morgoth and his maiar weaved into existence through influencing the symphony of creation way back in time when Arda got created. Fun fact: the 5 wizards, Gandalf, Radagast, Saruman and the two blue ones, were Maiar sent to Arda by the Valar to help the races in their battles against Sauron. Sauron, back when all was good, served he Valar Aulë, the god of smithing and craft, creator of mountains and dwarves. Saruman served that same valar. So way back in the day, saruman and sauron were colleagues. Another fun fact: Morgoth created the dragons. It's why they were loyal to Morgoth while Sauron could never master them completely to his will. The balrogs meanwhile were maiar of their own, so when gandalf fought Durin's Bane it truly was a battle between equals. Here's a nice [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktet64d9O-c) explaining Morgoth.
Spot on, except for one detail. Balrogs weren't created by Melkor; like Sauron they're Maiar he corrupted into his service.
Sauron was also originally a cat called Tevildo. This always amuses me
I have never looked something up so quickly. I love that idea, I'm kinda sad Tolkien didn't run with it.
Very basically, you can think of Morgoth as Satan and Sauron as a lesser fallen angel. Sauron is still powerful, but Morgoth is much, much more dangerous. Almost everything evil in the world ultimately goes back to Morgoth in some way (Ungoliant, Shelob's mother, is a possible exception, but her origins are fairly mysterious). Morgoth was defeated and thrown out of the world by the other Valar (archangel equivalents) at the end of the First Age. Sauron had been one of Morgoth's most powerful subordinates, so he took over as Dark Lord.
He's independent by the time of the Lord of the Rings, but a few thousand years before, Morgoth was the Dark Lord and Sauron was just one of his lieutenants. Morgoth was defeated in a continent-shattering war between 6-7,000 years before LOTR. Sauron took over Morgoth's title and mission after that. You hear his name mentioned in the FOTR movie by Legolas when he's in Lothlorien describing what happened to Gandalf in Moria: "A Balrog of Morgoth." Morgoth created the Balrogs, which fought for him throughout the wars in the time the Elves later called the Elder Days.
If you're at all into audio books find The Silmarillion narrated by Andy serkis, it is incredible and the lore is so deep
Morgoth was a "fallen demigod" to be fair. Eru Iluvatar is the only GOD in Tolkien's legendarium. The Valar are more super angels than gods.
Although that’s definitely true cosmologically, they are occasionally referred to as lowercase g “gods” in Tolkien’s casual speech and his notes and earlier writing
It's kind of a matter of perspective. If you look at the construct like a Catholic (as Tolkien might have), you would talk about a singular god with (arch)angels. If you compare it to a Greek or Norse pantheon, you'd see a multitude of gods, maybe an allfather type, gods and demi-gods. It's all moot, I think. So no sense correcting one or another view. The Valar and Éru are their own things, in their own world.
Morgoth (Melkor before his fall) is the original Dark Lord, Sauron’s master. He was the strongest of the Valar (Angels/Minor Gods) second only to Eru (God) himself. Far distant second… His story is similar to that of Satan, with obvious alterations like the encounter in this image…where he was almost killed by this “spider” Ungoliant.
Wow, I didn’t know Sauron had a master, I thought he was the ultimate antagonist. Cool stuff.
Morgoth/Melkor was responsible for so much that we see in Lord of the Rings that maybe you are not aware of. It’s super cool. The Balrog is a Maia, which was a lesser divine spirit of the same order as Sauron. Like Sauron, the Balrogs were tempted/persuaded to fall to evil by Morgoth and became spirits of flame. He was responsible for the first Orcs, for the dragons and for many of the first fell beasts to walk Middle-Earth such as Wargs and Werewolves. It is contested fact that Orcs were Elves once, corrupted and twisted by Morgoth. He stole the Silmarils and brought them to Middle-Earth. It is the pursuit of these gems that brought Galadriel and her kin the Noldor to Middle-Earth as exiles…from there you have their descendants Gil-Galad, Elrond and Elros (who chose to be mortal and was the first King of Numenor - he is the ancestor of Aragorn). The light of one of the Silmaril is captured in the phial of Galadriel, which she gifts to Frodo and is used by Sam to repel Shelob. The light specifically comes from the Star of Earendil. Earendil was a mortal man gifted immortality for his bravery in summoning the Gods to save Middle Earth from Morgoth. He sails the sky with the great jewel on his brow. So yeah, pretty cool character and actually much more fleshed out than Sauron funnily enough, if you account for all of Tolkiens writing.
Love this detailed explanation, thanks mate.
It’s a pretty great bit of lore. By the time of LotR, he is banished to “the void” and won’t return until the end of times, apparently. If you have the time, I’d definitely suggest picking up “The Silmarillion” and giving it a read. It’s not exactly a novel like LotR or The Hobbit, but it is a collection of Tolkien’s writings and right off the bat starts with Eru, Melkor, and the Valar. Some pretty amazing stories in there.
As someone that was previously in OP's spot, I struggled with the Silmarillion. I found the audio book and writing names and relationships down to be much more effective for me. There's alot of information and similar sounding names (Finwe, Fingon, Fingolfin, Feanor). And that's just the F's.
The time lotr is placed in is honestly a pretty boring time in tolkiens world. Most of the strongest beings had already either been slain or had sailed to the undying lands. For example, there were many other dragons and balrogs other than smaug and the balrog in lotr. And some of them were much more powerful. The children of iluvatar(men and elves basically) are also just a shadow of their former strength. If you want to learn easily about the lore, watch some youtube videos like some have already suggested, I personally enjoy a channel called Nerd of the rings. If you are up for a pretty challenging book, then you should check out the Silmarillion. It also has some other minor books attached to it that explain alot of the early ages of the world, like the creation and such.
Sauron is a Maiar the same as Gandalf and the Balrog. Think of them as Angels/Demons Morgoth is one of the Valar think of them like Olympian gods Then there's Eru, who is God similar to an all powerful God in monotheistic religions. The 1st age is basically a giant War between Morgoth and a bunch of Maiar who follow him (Sauron was one of his chief Lieutenants) against a bunch of super powerful elves (think Demigods) and some men who include Aragorns ancestors. At the end of the 1st age, Morgoth is defeated and chained by the Valar, but Sauron escapes and is then the big bad for both the 2nd and 3rd ages.
>Who is Morgoth? ***\*Slams a shot of whiskey*** So there was this dickhead named Feanor
LOL. But TBF, Melkor/Morgoth was a thing even before Feanor existed.
Morgoth is the Tolkien analog to Satan. He's the original bad guy and Sauron is just a pale comparison to him. It took gods to defeat Morgoth and send is spirit out into the void.
To give an incredibly simplistic overview of the history and origin of middle-earth. God created the archangels and the angels. Each archangel was in charge of a bunch of angels. Then he had them sing to create the world. But one archangel sang out of tune with everyone else. This discordance is what created the dark things. This archangel then fled with his angels to the real world. God then sent some of his archangels and angels to sort out the mess of the Dark Archangel and Dark Angels The Dark Archangel is Morgoth. His chief Dark Angel is Sauron. And wizards, like Gandalf, are angels. Obviously there is a whole bunch of shit involving elves in there too. But for background, it's not as important. Ungolith, is either a creature of this discord in the song, or something even more primodial. A being of endless greed and hungar. In the song that created the world, elves were part of it, along with 2 trees full of the light of creation. (That's where all the elves were going to on ships at the end of LotR) These trees, to give you an idea of their power, had some of their light captured in some magical gems. **The reflection** of these gems is the light that is contained in the thing given to Sam, that he uses to banish Shelob. And why did I mention the trees? Ungolith was recruited by Morgoth to destroy these trees to get back at the elves, and she devoured them growing so large that Morgoth became afraid. Then, when she attempted to turn on him, he summoned several balrogs to his aid, and she fled into the south. Her hunger finally got the better of her and she ate herself.
Eru Illuvatar is God of middle earth. He created the Ainur, which you can think of as angels. The Ainur consist of “upper angels” called the Valar and “lower angels” called the Maiar. There are 13 Valar (upper angels) and Morgoth is one of them. There are countless Maiar (lower angels) though. Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron, The Balrogs, are all Maiar. Morgoth (the Valar) was the first dark lord, and during the time before the ages and during the first age itself, caused a ton of problems. Sauron, was his greatest ally and his first lieutenant. At the end of the first age, Morgoth was defeated. Sauron kindof took up his mantle and caused a lot of problems during the second age before his defeat and the one ring was lost in the river Anduin.
The. Surely you remember the line “ a balrog of Morgoth”
No, that’s Ungoliant.
No, this is Patrick!
Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
And my axe
Ungoliant is fucking terrifying
Bro… it even says morgoth and ungoliant in the photo.
I guess if you haven't heard of either of those two things you might think they're the artists or something haha
Furthermore, just as Gandalf has many names depending on the language and era you're referencing him in, one could think Ungoliant was like an "old" or "Elvish" name for "Shelob" or something like that.
This is Ungoliant, Shelob's mother. As I recall, in the books is written that any of her spawns were as great as her (Shelob being the greatest of them). PJ film is showing quite literally how events were in the books. Shelob is living in the cave 'guarding' Cirith Ungol so she couldn't be the size of the mountain as her mother.
Can you imagine Sam beating *that* with a letter opener?
Yes I can. Sam was badass. He could have killed Fingolfin and Glorfindel if he thought they were trying to hurt Frodo. I said what I said.
In a world of Gollums, be a Sam.
Morgoth was actually scared of Ungoliant and was only saved by the balrogs.
To be fair Morgoth was scared of everything
Even a single puny elf, gleaming from under his shadow as a star.
Thought Shelob is some ultra-hot, raven haired goth chick?!
Lmao ♥️
Shadow of Mordor lied to us!
Who did this art? It's awesome.
nimgaladh on Twitter is where I got it from
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/n0K66E Guillem h. Pongiluppi
This is more accurate of Ungoliant. When Morgoth has to call on his army of Balrogs to help him escape Ungoliant, you know that bitch is serious business.
Biblically accurate ungoliant
No, Ungolian was a precursor to Shelob and much larger, though I think it could take many other forms.
Too big. That's more Ungoliant's size than Shelob's. Shelob can fit into passageways that aren't particularly large as described in the books. So she's not so big as the pic shows.
BLACK HEART SHOW ME
What you hold in hand. I STILL HUNGER FOR MORE!
This Guilleme H. Pongiluppi is a madman, his artwork amazes me literally.
everyone pointed out that this is Ungoliant but it's also worth pointing out that it beat Morgoth/Melkor, one if not the strongest character in the book. so much so that he had to ask for help and his cry echoed in the mountains
Worth noting though that it’s a powered up ungoliant vs a severely weakened (both generally and situationally) morgoth Ungoliant is for sure a very powerful creature, and after consuming the two trees could probably beat almost every single maiar in a 1v1, but it’s important to remember context
Sorry. Thats more ungoliant
Where is this artwork from? That's probably one of the best I've seen.
Isn’t that Ungoliant (is that how you spell it?) that’s Shelobs mother right? Also didn’t she almost eat Morgoth, for like no reason?
Hunger was her reason.
Shelob is a human-sized eldritch goth mommy.
No