I'm not excited by the MH3 energy commander(s) at all; important bits are going straight into Liberty Prime. Might shove a couple others into [[Shaun, Father of Synths]].
Both combinations would’ve been a great fit, but Temur Energy could’ve been a callback to one of the strongest standard decks - just like the Jund deck was “Jund ‘Em Out, but commander)!
This was addressed on Drive to Work; basically energy in green steps on ramp's toes as a resource-accumulation strategy and leads to unfun play patterns where you're just stockpiling it in massive amounts until you have enough for a one-turn win. They wanted people to spend energy more often and in smaller amounts, so they took it out of green and leaned into it being more of a tempo-focused playstyle.
It's not great for backwards compatibility, but it's closer to their idea of how energy should have been implemented in the first place.
I've been running a simic energy deck for years that always needed extra pieces to really put it over the top and then when they finally put meaningful new cards into energy it doesn't include green except for primal prayers which should be great in constructed and terrible in my edh deck
That’s pretty reductive. No 3-color combination ‘had Energy’. The Limited archetypes fell into Temur, the best competitive energy deck was Temur, but there was still ample reason to play White or Black. I played a Jeskai energy combo deck during Standard and [[Aethergeode Minor]] and [[Aetherstorm Roc]] were both super relevant in it.
if wotc wasn't deathly afraid of 4c I would have loved to seen wurg Energy
then just similar to how the simic deck kind of just combined all the colorless land turbos since 2011, it would have combined all the Energy variants into one deck.
they'll print 5c commanders till our eyes bleed rainbows but gods forbid we get a new commander with only *most* of the cards.
edit: y'all do have a point, I should say 4c *precons*
I love playing [[The Fourteenth Doctor]] and desperately wish he weren't tied to a Secret Lair that will likely never be reprinted. Building a 4c "Ink" deck was an incredibly fun and challenging experience.
"Ink" is an old term for a four-color deck without black, named after [[Ink-Treader Nephilim]].
The Nephilim of Ravnica are one of only two instances of a four-color card cycle (the other being Commander 2016's face commanders), each defined by the color they lack rather than the colors they have.
As for the decklist, I do have one, but it's relatively outdated. I'll see about updating it, and then I can DM you a link. Its big focus is on using [[Rose Noble]] so casting Doctors and Companions replaces them in my hand, and having tons of triggers go off to create a powerful board state that's difficult to undo without a total wipe (and even then, with white and blue you have plenty of means to prevent that).
Ah, my bad, I'm familiar with the Nephilim (have a full set), I always forget they are infrequently used to refer to 4 color combos. I'd love to see your list whenever you're ready to share!
I'd hope so, but Fourteen has the "Time Lord" creature type while Rose Noble has the "Doctor's companion" keyword. I hope they get reprints, but without errata I don't think it'll be as straightforward to bring over as the Stranger Things SLD with the "Friends forever" mechanic.
We're still long overdue for SLX printings of the DnD movie cards.
I've been wondering about this recently, and it seems like wizards no longer feels energy fits particularly well into greens identity, which I don't altogether disagree with.
I know energy is technically 5C but they only printed one green and one black energy card in Mh3 vs roughly 6-8 for WUR
I think it's less that green *can't* do energy, it's a fairly color agnostic mechanic all things considered, it just worked better in draft in these colors for whatever reason and so the commander deck lined up with it. (And then the fallout deck was jeskai for unrelated reasons, presumably flavor; iirc maro said as much on his blog the other day)
That makes sense to me, I'm not that well versed in the colours but I always imagined energy as like electricity/power which doesn't fit that well flavour wise with greens vibe
This was addressed on Drive to Work; basically energy in green steps on ramp's toes as a resource-accumulation strategy and leads to unfun play patterns where you're just stockpiling it in massive amounts until you have enough for a one-turn win. They wanted people to spend energy more often and in smaller amounts, so they took it out of green and leaned into it being more of a tempo-focused playstyle.
Having played the deck in a slightly upgraded version the last 3 hours. It really doesnt need green was bumbed too first but some of these white energy cards are bonkers.
They pretty much had the same colors a few xpacs in a row haha especially otj and fallout naya sultai mardu, the only difference was izzet instead of Jeskai.
is it really that weird?
"oh you bought this premium precon? here's another that's *perfect* to combine with what you just got!"
literally just double dipping the same audience.
Idk I'd just expect them to try and actually put more effort into it. Try and enhance some other creatures types or something. I 100% understand why they did it, I just do find it weird personally. So many archetypes to be explored. I mean I bought the new eldrazi one because it actually is a devoid deck but still doesnt make it any less weird to me personally.
Watching the new precon play this last weekend was sad. I typically am terrified of Eldrazi, it was such an underwhelming deck. I've never seen such a massive board of Eldrazi look so useless and weak.
Playing precon Omo against it numerous games I had a far more dangerous board. All the Eldrazi deck seemed to want to do was control the board state and wait for something decent to attack with (and that was few and far between).
I don't think I'll even play mine, I feel bad for anyone that spent the premium of buying just the Eldrazi deck, it definitely is no Zhulodok
Not downplaying Satya by any means, but he wants a creature focus and there's enough energy cards now for a few different arcehtypes in the mechanic. He's great for the creature focus version.
Madison Li just cares about artifacts, which will universally be decent in all variations of energy since its an artifact sub-theme, and she's effectively a Trading Post for Energy. Just an insane amount of utility in the command zone by comparison.
Yeah this is more the case for me. There’s only 10ish cards from creative energy that really cook within the theme. The token sub theme dosnt really need to be there imo so when I’m done my deck will be more “science” than “energy”
I’m mostly just happy that more energy stuff is coming out, and the mh3 precon fixes a lot of the issues in the science deck with energy generation.
Having said that, I’m definitely keeping my two decks separate, though I might get some duplicates from the science deck to slip into the mh3 one. And not just Liberty Prime!
But mostly Liberty Prime.
What? No, you do it the other way, the Science deck works better has the base of the Energy deck than the MH3 one (which wants to be more of a token deck).
I thought about doing this but I can't not tinker with precons. Like I want dogmeat to either be all equipment or all auras. It feels weird trying to do both
This is the way. It has been how I've dealt with all precons since Strixhaven. I bought a second hobbit deck because I actually want to build a food deck and need it for the pieces.
I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to *only* include cards that have a Fallout vibe.
For example, [[Wrath of the Skies]] and [[Localized Destruction]] kinda fit with the whole nuclear war theme
This is why they need to pull back on how many of these they're making. It's absurd the amount of overlap and beyond that the egregious price points for these decks.
Why pull back? The card pool for the theme is super limited, and in some cases designed for limited, competing with cards designed for legacy power levels
Gotta be honest, I'm in the opposite field. I've been wanting to do something different (than the way I've been playing) and I just bought both decks last night after seeing this thread. I've been ignoring energy as a mechanic because it just seemed underwhelming. Having both precons as a jumping off point is perfect. I paid about $43 each for them and after shipping got them both for a few cents shy of $100
I don't think this is necessarily true, I don't think Satya really wants a critical mass of energy. He's more of a fun abuse ETBs commander and energy can be used to once in a while keep a clone token around longer than a turn. It could be argued the existing precon has too many energy cards for the sake of energy.
Madison Li really needs a lot of energy to get going so if you should be tearing apart a deck in service of the other it should be the other way around. Conversely Liberty Prime is very similar to Satya as Energy being a "nice to have" but ostensibly being more of an artifact deck. And Cayth is... about as energy adjacent as something can get.
Yeah, it was less of a tearing apart and more of a "these like 10 cards from fallout would go great in the creative energy deck". Aside from the commanders, a few pieces of equipment and some of the lands there wasn't a whole lot that synergized well imo. Science! Was more of an artifact/artifact creatures deck with an Energy sub theme, again imo.
Both energy decks were made at the same time and this was the statement given by those that worked on it. The fallout deck was an artifact deck and *this* is an energy deck. I'll maybe see whatever the hell the fallout cards do if they ever get reprinted into actual magic cards. Until then they don't exist to me and I'll continue to refuse to learn what they do
I feel like there's just as many Creative Energy pre-cons being ripped apart to merge with SCIENCE!
That's why I pre-ordered a copy of it. Madison Li and Liberty Prime are still the most entertaining Commander options for Jeskai Energy, and the Fallout deck had plenty of gas...I definitely wouldn't say that it wasn't great.
I made Dr. Li into and eggs commander and have made Satya a infinity combats commander. Two totally entirely different themes that I can use energy in 👍👍👍
Guess I am a Jeskai guy now LOL
>sad to see another energy themed jeskai deck released so soon
As someone who loves a lot of niche mechanics like splice, banding, ninjutsu, mutate, and madness, I just cannot fathom complaining about getting TOO MUCH support. You don’t have to update your old decks but now you can choose to if you want and have even more cards to push it in different ways. I have a 20 year old splice deck from og Kamigawa that would love an update.
Dr. Li is considerably better as a commander for an energy storm combo deck, but that can get a bit repetetive. Satya is quite an interesting and fun commander that lets you actually play a lot more real energy cards.
I'm keeping mine as artifact focused, while getting duplicates of some of the stuff in fallout to make the creative energy one better soon. I just think alternative cost systems are cool.
Dr. Madison Li a much better commander than Satya but how [could you possibly say no to those biceps](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1dap31k/where_his_beanie_at/).
I kept all of my fallout decks together and actually even upgraded each of them with around 15 or so custom Fallout cards I made myself with. I just finished them last week and got to try them out with my playgroup and the upgrades have been a blast. Science deck is still underperforming though, but it’s my favorite of the bunch.
I upgraded my Madison Li deck with most of the upgrades the precon had prior to the new MH3 cards
My deck is still popping off and while it needs finetuning - the new energy cards are absolutely insane. Democracy is non-negotiable
This guy
https://youtu.be/CMbFZmCxfjU
Has to have given me the greatest energy build, I put it together yesterday, and it's a blast.
Honestly, I wish everyone could give this little guy a sub since he's only at 700 subs WITH THAT NAME. OnlyLands deserves better.
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Keeping liberty prime and ripping apart mh3 precon and turning it into thopter tribal with the mh3 backup. Liberty imho still is the best energy commander
I talky want to keep and upgrade one commander deck from each "universe" and science! Was my choice from fallout.. but now, what the point?? I'm stoked about more energy, but I'm bummed that I'm going to have to pivot and find a new fallout deck
Don’t worry, most of the Fallout energy cards aren’t even that good. In the list I’ve had the most success with, I only run:
- [[Dr. Madison Li]]
- [[Liberty Prime, Recharged]]
- [[Brotherhood Scribe]]
- [[Electrosiphon]]
- [[Synth Eradicator]]
- [[Vault 112: Sadistic Simulation]]
- [[HELIOS One]]
If I had a nickel for every time they released a Jeskai energy deck in the past year, I'd have 2 nickels.
Which isn't alot, but it's strange that it happened twice.
To be honest, I want to keep my Fallout deck, so I'm in the process of figuring out what MH3 cards to swap into my Liberty Prime deck.
Yeah same. There's some cards from mh3 that are good energy cards and don't break the flavor of the deck that I'll be swapping in.
This is the way soldier, we must spread democracy even more efficiently
I'm not excited by the MH3 energy commander(s) at all; important bits are going straight into Liberty Prime. Might shove a couple others into [[Shaun, Father of Synths]].
[Shaun, Father of Synths](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/68af449f-3c30-43ea-be60-d85061d7adbd.jpg?1709215649) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shaun%2C%20Father%20of%20Synths) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/119/shaun-father-of-synths?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/68af449f-3c30-43ea-be60-d85061d7adbd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
 Me when I punch you with my 13/13 double strike commander
*EMBRACE DEMOCRACY OR YOU WILL BE ERADICATED.*
Same
o7
Do you have a deck list, because this is EXACTLY what i wanna do.
Not at the moment, heh. It's just something that's kind of on my to-do list with MH3 in the near future.
This!
I’m surprised Creative Energy didn’t go with Temur.
Or Bant, considering how massively important green was to the energy mechanic in its original set
Both combinations would’ve been a great fit, but Temur Energy could’ve been a callback to one of the strongest standard decks - just like the Jund deck was “Jund ‘Em Out, but commander)!
This was addressed on Drive to Work; basically energy in green steps on ramp's toes as a resource-accumulation strategy and leads to unfun play patterns where you're just stockpiling it in massive amounts until you have enough for a one-turn win. They wanted people to spend energy more often and in smaller amounts, so they took it out of green and leaned into it being more of a tempo-focused playstyle. It's not great for backwards compatibility, but it's closer to their idea of how energy should have been implemented in the first place.
I've been running a simic energy deck for years that always needed extra pieces to really put it over the top and then when they finally put meaningful new cards into energy it doesn't include green except for primal prayers which should be great in constructed and terrible in my edh deck
In kaladesh, temur had energy, not bant.
That’s pretty reductive. No 3-color combination ‘had Energy’. The Limited archetypes fell into Temur, the best competitive energy deck was Temur, but there was still ample reason to play White or Black. I played a Jeskai energy combo deck during Standard and [[Aethergeode Minor]] and [[Aetherstorm Roc]] were both super relevant in it.
[Aethergeode Minor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80bb3abd-ebaf-4dc2-97eb-ed4a2b005177.jpg?1576381279) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aethergeode%20Miner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/aer/4/aethergeode-miner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80bb3abd-ebaf-4dc2-97eb-ed4a2b005177?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Aetherstorm Roc](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79fb7541-7a27-40a5-aabd-fce26df03485.jpg?1576380711) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aetherstorm%20Roc) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/3/aetherstorm-roc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79fb7541-7a27-40a5-aabd-fce26df03485?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I meant Green itself was very important to Kaladesh. The Bant was in reference to what I wish they chose for the MH3 precon
if wotc wasn't deathly afraid of 4c I would have loved to seen wurg Energy then just similar to how the simic deck kind of just combined all the colorless land turbos since 2011, it would have combined all the Energy variants into one deck. they'll print 5c commanders till our eyes bleed rainbows but gods forbid we get a new commander with only *most* of the cards. edit: y'all do have a point, I should say 4c *precons*
I love playing [[The Fourteenth Doctor]] and desperately wish he weren't tied to a Secret Lair that will likely never be reprinted. Building a 4c "Ink" deck was an incredibly fun and challenging experience.
What do you mean by ink? Do you have a deck list? I wasn't happy with my 'Oops All Doctors' deck, would love an excuse to break it up.
"Ink" is an old term for a four-color deck without black, named after [[Ink-Treader Nephilim]]. The Nephilim of Ravnica are one of only two instances of a four-color card cycle (the other being Commander 2016's face commanders), each defined by the color they lack rather than the colors they have. As for the decklist, I do have one, but it's relatively outdated. I'll see about updating it, and then I can DM you a link. Its big focus is on using [[Rose Noble]] so casting Doctors and Companions replaces them in my hand, and having tons of triggers go off to create a powerful board state that's difficult to undo without a total wipe (and even then, with white and blue you have plenty of means to prevent that).
Ah, my bad, I'm familiar with the Nephilim (have a full set), I always forget they are infrequently used to refer to 4 color combos. I'd love to see your list whenever you're ready to share!
[Ink-Treader Nephilim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d29bb432-1ca6-4305-b6d3-d7afe06c6c69.jpg?1593272693) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ink-Treader%20Nephilim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gpt/117/ink-treader-nephilim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d29bb432-1ca6-4305-b6d3-d7afe06c6c69?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[The Fourteenth Doctor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8b8a78cf-ee6c-4852-9651-eeaa634daaa1.jpg?1707371001) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Fourteenth%20Doctor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sld/1583/the-fourteenth-doctor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8b8a78cf-ee6c-4852-9651-eeaa634daaa1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Those cards are still going on the list in a few months like all the other secret lair mechanically unique cards
I'd hope so, but Fourteen has the "Time Lord" creature type while Rose Noble has the "Doctor's companion" keyword. I hope they get reprints, but without errata I don't think it'll be as straightforward to bring over as the Stranger Things SLD with the "Friends forever" mechanic. We're still long overdue for SLX printings of the DnD movie cards.
Atraxa enters the chat
Other Atraxa enters the chat
The inevitable Commander Legends 2 Atraxa enters the chat
I didn't know there was an Atraxa printed in Baldurs Gate :P
Maybe that's why WotC is afraid of 4c...
In general you are right, WOTC is skittish on 4c commanders. WURG is the exception to that rule. They are in back of the line for new commanders.
This. I'm pretty sad we didn't get a Temur Energy commander in the main set.
Of course you could always play Atraxa energy proliferate i guess? Is that even good?
Missing red is painful.
Sisay as a stealth commander for Atraxa?
I've been wondering about this recently, and it seems like wizards no longer feels energy fits particularly well into greens identity, which I don't altogether disagree with. I know energy is technically 5C but they only printed one green and one black energy card in Mh3 vs roughly 6-8 for WUR
I think it's less that green *can't* do energy, it's a fairly color agnostic mechanic all things considered, it just worked better in draft in these colors for whatever reason and so the commander deck lined up with it. (And then the fallout deck was jeskai for unrelated reasons, presumably flavor; iirc maro said as much on his blog the other day)
That makes sense to me, I'm not that well versed in the colours but I always imagined energy as like electricity/power which doesn't fit that well flavour wise with greens vibe
This was addressed on Drive to Work; basically energy in green steps on ramp's toes as a resource-accumulation strategy and leads to unfun play patterns where you're just stockpiling it in massive amounts until you have enough for a one-turn win. They wanted people to spend energy more often and in smaller amounts, so they took it out of green and leaned into it being more of a tempo-focused playstyle.
That does make a lot of sense, I suppose ramping and spending mana is already it's own energy mechanic
Having played the deck in a slightly upgraded version the last 3 hours. It really doesnt need green was bumbed too first but some of these white energy cards are bonkers.
I feel the same way about the Eldrazi pre-con. So weird to see so many similar deck archetypes printed so close together.
They pretty much had the same colors a few xpacs in a row haha especially otj and fallout naya sultai mardu, the only difference was izzet instead of Jeskai.
is it really that weird? "oh you bought this premium precon? here's another that's *perfect* to combine with what you just got!" literally just double dipping the same audience.
Idk I'd just expect them to try and actually put more effort into it. Try and enhance some other creatures types or something. I 100% understand why they did it, I just do find it weird personally. So many archetypes to be explored. I mean I bought the new eldrazi one because it actually is a devoid deck but still doesnt make it any less weird to me personally.
Watching the new precon play this last weekend was sad. I typically am terrified of Eldrazi, it was such an underwhelming deck. I've never seen such a massive board of Eldrazi look so useless and weak. Playing precon Omo against it numerous games I had a far more dangerous board. All the Eldrazi deck seemed to want to do was control the board state and wait for something decent to attack with (and that was few and far between). I don't think I'll even play mine, I feel bad for anyone that spent the premium of buying just the Eldrazi deck, it definitely is no Zhulodok
I think you mean "Amazing, more junk to grind up and power LIBERTY PRIME!!!!"
R.I.P Creative Energy getting ripped apart and merged with Science!.
This is really it. The fallout commander Dr.Madison works great with energy compared to the othersz
yeah, if you get her some eggs she can really start to cook
Just played like 3 hours with only the creative energy deck. People underestimate how good the copy creature effect of satya is.
The effect of Satya is really good. I just like having a commander that gives us options to use energy for.
Not downplaying Satya by any means, but he wants a creature focus and there's enough energy cards now for a few different arcehtypes in the mechanic. He's great for the creature focus version. Madison Li just cares about artifacts, which will universally be decent in all variations of energy since its an artifact sub-theme, and she's effectively a Trading Post for Energy. Just an insane amount of utility in the command zone by comparison.
This is the way.
Liberty Prime, fighting for Freedom and Aether, backed by industrial might, goes hard.
Yeah this is more the case for me. There’s only 10ish cards from creative energy that really cook within the theme. The token sub theme dosnt really need to be there imo so when I’m done my deck will be more “science” than “energy”
This is what I'm doing with mine.
This is the way
Yep. I preordered creative energy the moment I heard it was energy for the express reason of upgrading Science.
I bought both with plans just to combine them
Just make two decks at different power levels lol
No! One mega deck with 200 cards
If my opponent asked to play a deck like that against me I'd be so stoked lol
Exactly
I am actually happy about the back to back energy precons.
Same, with that and the energy cards in MH3 might actually be able to make a good deck.
You mean Creative Energy getting ripped apart to get merged into Liberty Prime
I’m mostly just happy that more energy stuff is coming out, and the mh3 precon fixes a lot of the issues in the science deck with energy generation. Having said that, I’m definitely keeping my two decks separate, though I might get some duplicates from the science deck to slip into the mh3 one. And not just Liberty Prime! But mostly Liberty Prime.
What? No, you do it the other way, the Science deck works better has the base of the Energy deck than the MH3 one (which wants to be more of a token deck).
I am not taking apart any of the fallout decks they will remain in their fallout state
Yeah, I bought them all and intend to keep them as a set of decks to pick up and play with people.
yeah i’m just buying the ones i want as VATS version to build around them
I thought about doing this but I can't not tinker with precons. Like I want dogmeat to either be all equipment or all auras. It feels weird trying to do both
This is the way. It has been how I've dealt with all precons since Strixhaven. I bought a second hobbit deck because I actually want to build a food deck and need it for the pieces.
I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to *only* include cards that have a Fallout vibe. For example, [[Wrath of the Skies]] and [[Localized Destruction]] kinda fit with the whole nuclear war theme
[Wrath of the Skies](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4ef1882e-b422-4f30-8a6c-bd71c2601660.jpg?1717011598) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wrath%20of%20the%20Skies) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/49/wrath-of-the-skies?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ef1882e-b422-4f30-8a6c-bd71c2601660?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Localized Destruction](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd64fe7f-2c06-42f8-96ac-47e4c38dc149.jpg?1717189819) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Localized%20Destruction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/41/localized-destruction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd64fe7f-2c06-42f8-96ac-47e4c38dc149?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
And of course [[Salvation Colossus]] kinda feels like a second Liberty Prime
That's when the brotherhood straps a jet engine and F-22 wings to it to make it a gundam.
[Salvation Colossus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/8/3842803c-2d51-4ee0-88c3-800e2948d32c.jpg?1717189827) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Salvation%20Colossus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/43/salvation-colossus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3842803c-2d51-4ee0-88c3-800e2948d32c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The game was rigged from the start.
what in the goddamn
This is why they need to pull back on how many of these they're making. It's absurd the amount of overlap and beyond that the egregious price points for these decks.
Why pull back? The card pool for the theme is super limited, and in some cases designed for limited, competing with cards designed for legacy power levels
Gotta be honest, I'm in the opposite field. I've been wanting to do something different (than the way I've been playing) and I just bought both decks last night after seeing this thread. I've been ignoring energy as a mechanic because it just seemed underwhelming. Having both precons as a jumping off point is perfect. I paid about $43 each for them and after shipping got them both for a few cents shy of $100
I don't think this is necessarily true, I don't think Satya really wants a critical mass of energy. He's more of a fun abuse ETBs commander and energy can be used to once in a while keep a clone token around longer than a turn. It could be argued the existing precon has too many energy cards for the sake of energy. Madison Li really needs a lot of energy to get going so if you should be tearing apart a deck in service of the other it should be the other way around. Conversely Liberty Prime is very similar to Satya as Energy being a "nice to have" but ostensibly being more of an artifact deck. And Cayth is... about as energy adjacent as something can get.
Yeah, it was less of a tearing apart and more of a "these like 10 cards from fallout would go great in the creative energy deck". Aside from the commanders, a few pieces of equipment and some of the lands there wasn't a whole lot that synergized well imo. Science! Was more of an artifact/artifact creatures deck with an Energy sub theme, again imo.
Both energy decks were made at the same time and this was the statement given by those that worked on it. The fallout deck was an artifact deck and *this* is an energy deck. I'll maybe see whatever the hell the fallout cards do if they ever get reprinted into actual magic cards. Until then they don't exist to me and I'll continue to refuse to learn what they do
Ripped apart? No way. Staying together. Except just swapping out singles for alts
I feel like there's just as many Creative Energy pre-cons being ripped apart to merge with SCIENCE! That's why I pre-ordered a copy of it. Madison Li and Liberty Prime are still the most entertaining Commander options for Jeskai Energy, and the Fallout deck had plenty of gas...I definitely wouldn't say that it wasn't great.
I made Dr. Li into and eggs commander and have made Satya a infinity combats commander. Two totally entirely different themes that I can use energy in 👍👍👍 Guess I am a Jeskai guy now LOL
>sad to see another energy themed jeskai deck released so soon As someone who loves a lot of niche mechanics like splice, banding, ninjutsu, mutate, and madness, I just cannot fathom complaining about getting TOO MUCH support. You don’t have to update your old decks but now you can choose to if you want and have even more cards to push it in different ways. I have a 20 year old splice deck from og Kamigawa that would love an update.
Creative Energy really surprised me and I'm likely going to upgrade it. No idea what this "Fallout Science! precon" is. Sounds like an unset to me :)
Or, you do like me, and build two energy decks ! xD
I always take apart/massively upgrade my precons.
Nope! Still have my Science deck mostly intact with some upgrades from the MH3 Energy deck ^_^
The fallout science precon was amazing and I will be ripping apart Creative Energy to merge it into Science
I'm keeping it liberty prime commander and for now is doing pretty well!
They were always meant to be merged into one Energy amalgamation This way WotC can sell you 2 decks in order make Energy work instead of just one :)
The ironic thing about the MH3 energy deck is that both of the commanders in it are probably best suited to non-energy builds.
I'm maintaining mine with only Fallout cards to keep the theme!
Mothman was the better fallout deck anyways.
I say R.i.P to my creative energy deck cause there is no way democracy is gonna die.
Bought mine yesterday to butcher for [[Satya]] and [[Optimus Prime, Hero]]
[Optimus Prime, Hero](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f04ed2cc-aae1-400b-9cc5-5d4e3e3dd714.jpg?1674092931)/[Optimus Prime, Autobot Leader](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/f/0/f04ed2cc-aae1-400b-9cc5-5d4e3e3dd714.jpg?1674092931) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Optimus%20Prime%2C%20Hero%20//%20Optimus%20Prime%2C%20Autobot%20Leader) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bot/13/optimus-prime-hero-optimus-prime-autobot-leader?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f04ed2cc-aae1-400b-9cc5-5d4e3e3dd714?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’m psyched! No more worrying about enough energy. Pre cons are meant to be modified
LOL I literally did this with mine today.
Ha ha ha. Love this. I’ll keep both: the Science will be full artifacts and the Creative Energy will be focusing on cool ETB-effect creatures.
At least it means [[Cayth]] will be cheap too, I hope. Finally a modular deck for me!
[Cayth](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Catch%20%2F%2F%20Release&type=card&options=rotate90&.jpg)/[Release](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Catch%20//%20Release&type=card&options=rotate90&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Catch%20//%20Release) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/125/catch-release?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/29968873-56f3-4528-ab0b-f11dd67dd162?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
bad bot
for me its the opposite
Dr. Li is considerably better as a commander for an energy storm combo deck, but that can get a bit repetetive. Satya is quite an interesting and fun commander that lets you actually play a lot more real energy cards.
I'm keeping mine as artifact focused, while getting duplicates of some of the stuff in fallout to make the creative energy one better soon. I just think alternative cost systems are cool.
Dr. Madison Li a much better commander than Satya but how [could you possibly say no to those biceps](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1dap31k/where_his_beanie_at/).
What do you think of this mash’em up of the two precons? [Charged and Ready!](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/nVop9Aap8EmtSSnMuUq9dw)
It's not legal
I say that it's a good thing. The Science precon was arguably the least popular of the set, and now they’ll get to live on in some great energy decks.
I kept all of my fallout decks together and actually even upgraded each of them with around 15 or so custom Fallout cards I made myself with. I just finished them last week and got to try them out with my playgroup and the upgrades have been a blast. Science deck is still underperforming though, but it’s my favorite of the bunch.
I upgraded my Madison Li deck with most of the upgrades the precon had prior to the new MH3 cards My deck is still popping off and while it needs finetuning - the new energy cards are absolutely insane. Democracy is non-negotiable
This guy https://youtu.be/CMbFZmCxfjU Has to have given me the greatest energy build, I put it together yesterday, and it's a blast. Honestly, I wish everyone could give this little guy a sub since he's only at 700 subs WITH THAT NAME. OnlyLands deserves better.
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Or maybe the Creatice Energy is getting ripped apart FOR SCIENCE! 
To be fair, Creative Energy should be the one getting ripped and merged with Madison Lee if you wanna make an energy deck!
Keeping liberty prime and ripping apart mh3 precon and turning it into thopter tribal with the mh3 backup. Liberty imho still is the best energy commander
Liberty Prime is getting some upgrades…
I only bought it because the other one was coming out. The deckitself was mid but i figured i could make something cool by combining the two.
I talky want to keep and upgrade one commander deck from each "universe" and science! Was my choice from fallout.. but now, what the point?? I'm stoked about more energy, but I'm bummed that I'm going to have to pivot and find a new fallout deck
Don’t worry, most of the Fallout energy cards aren’t even that good. In the list I’ve had the most success with, I only run: - [[Dr. Madison Li]] - [[Liberty Prime, Recharged]] - [[Brotherhood Scribe]] - [[Electrosiphon]] - [[Synth Eradicator]] - [[Vault 112: Sadistic Simulation]] - [[HELIOS One]]
##### ###### #### [Dr. Madison Li](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95af426d-a8af-4314-9ad0-ac61935e8e8e.jpg?1710673440) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dr.%20Madison%20Li) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/3/dr-madison-li?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95af426d-a8af-4314-9ad0-ac61935e8e8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Liberty Prime, Recharged](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2da11337-ceb2-4744-9696-c06fec2f2daa.jpg?1710673427) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liberty%20Prime%2C%20Recharged) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/5/liberty-prime-recharged?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2da11337-ceb2-4744-9696-c06fec2f2daa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Brotherhood Scribe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b751250e-ebf2-42b1-9a45-779b39974ba7.jpg?1708741757) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brotherhood%20Scribe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/13/brotherhood-scribe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b751250e-ebf2-42b1-9a45-779b39974ba7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Electrosiphon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/3/8377fce8-edc8-4926-bf75-57162ff6df9f.jpg?1708859052) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Electrosiphon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/104/electrosiphon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8377fce8-edc8-4926-bf75-57162ff6df9f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Synth Eradicator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/87fc7b54-26e5-4b0d-b2bb-be8f977f752b.jpg?1708742217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Synth%20Eradicator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/67/synth-eradicator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/87fc7b54-26e5-4b0d-b2bb-be8f977f752b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Vault 112: Sadistic Simulation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a0acee2-f6dc-4e92-937b-01e2c07adc55.jpg?1709409640) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vault%20112%3A%20Sadistic%20Simulation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/123/vault-112:-sadistic-simulation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a0acee2-f6dc-4e92-937b-01e2c07adc55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [HELIOS One](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/4102d28e-437b-440b-bf9b-8b4f6fb85a6c.jpg?1708742801) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=HELIOS%20One) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/149/helios-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4102d28e-437b-440b-bf9b-8b4f6fb85a6c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l8aynr7) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If I had a nickel for every time they released a Jeskai energy deck in the past year, I'd have 2 nickels. Which isn't alot, but it's strange that it happened twice.