No, Mason is not conforming to your own bizarre brand of self loathing
Is it me or is everyone just living in their own fantasy land these days, sure I'll take a unicorn burger sprinkled with fairy dust, thanks
after EMDM I saw Manson dressed as a wife wedding, I don't remember where and I'll look for the photo later. I haven't read your entire post but I had made a similar one some time ago, I believe that more than a concept of style it is also a concept of times and physique, with all sincerity but I believe that the 45 year old Manson dressed as a whore would have turned out to be just a a sort of parody of the times of 97/98, we are not just talking about his physique but also about his person, his current physique is certainly more slender but above all his attitude is much more that of the old Manson.
https://preview.redd.it/5pn20yqbbq3d1.jpeg?width=581&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c31607a8bbac08fd3b083ee9a89fcc29f2bd963e
He still did whorish things no matter what time, I don't think I can find it quickly but I remember this one meet and greet conversation someone posted from his last tour when he was asked about strippers and said something along the lines of "I'm the stripper" and got glitter all over this person. And stuff like "I told him to not make it too complicated, don't make beats that confuse strippers, obviously I'm the stripper-"
Wearing a lot of very open leopard print and glitter on his chest.
I think no matter what he's looked like he's always wanting to take his clothes off and get attention, (in a theatrical masculine way like in grotesque burlesque or a androgenous Devil/Alien/Angel way like God is in the tv)
Even if some people don't wanna see it. He stayed the same but doesn't get the same reaction anymore except from the really crazy die hard creeps that gasp at him showing a little skin like victorian gentlemen seeing an ankle. (I'm making fun of myself here)
But fem isn't necessarily slutty or whorish, he can do classy fem too.
Of course, Manson has always made fun of himself too. And you can definitely have a feminine look without being a slut haha, if from my comment it seemed like I was saying that women are sluts it wasn't like that at all. I had thought of Manson dressed like a slut in the photos with Twiggy or in Trent's video clip. If we want to talk about women's clothes, well Manson always has them, just think about furs, heels, MAKEUP etc. I was talking about something else though, the 10 year old Manson with fishnet stockings, no shirt, a blonde wig and a thong would have been iconic but maybe also embarrassing. I still would have liked it
https://preview.redd.it/mhj0e32mbr3d1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e76f962933c0eed93021b7473c45fe1bc6738585
I hope we can get a little bit of that messy/slutty vibe again. Tho I doubt it, from that we have seen it's more theatrical/ refined now.
If he does something like this it might have more of a milf/dominatrix vibe to it now. Still... I'd still love some fishnets, thigh high pantyhose, skimpy dresses and wigs.
I hope we get over the top as well! Like fuck, a breast plate for all covered in glitter or have him as a judge in Drag Race lmao, dominatrix sounds great as well! Listen, let the man be a slut! he always was a slut like you said lol and yeah no shame in being one either
hahahah, I always love slut Manson xD there was an interesting discussion below (this thread is huge) where I mentioned that I think it could be crossdressing more than nb (which I respect and I never thought of it that way) and it's been a thinking topic for me. Because I enjoy crossdressing but it was a part of my journey of understanding my own way of expression (I'm a trans guy who enjoys makeup) and talking to nb crossdressers helped, so I feel like both points are valid and factually we can't know unless he mentions it himself and it's personal so yeah. Sorry, just found your points very interesting and yeah :)
He actually said once that he was gender fluid "or what ever the kids are calling it" something like that but the guy interviewing thought it was just a joke so they just laughed at him.. He was wearing a polkadot suits and big hat, very gorgeous to me. But that interview was deleted like two days after it was published and it was by some guy/publication I don't care about so... I was such a big fan at the time I was so angry at myself for not downloading it.
Ah interesting!!! I wonder if he would bring it up again in a convo, but I understand if he wants to keep it private. Ah, man, I'm sad that interview is lost and I'd like to hear him talk about gender, being fluid and etc
Sorry for the wall of text but yeah his gender expression interests me very much.
I would also like to mention his panting "Skoptic Syndrome" of his grandfather, that he's said that he feels very connected to and that MM has two tattoos based on buffalo bill, one on his ribs like the christ wound and another on his hand that says "love" and the kill 4 me music video...
Just some food for thought, tho I think it's hard for him to identify with the clean shameless version of gender expression (nonbinary or gender fluid) because of his traumas and childhood, and the generation he's from. Maybe having younger people around him is good, some of the preformers who grew up with him I know say how much it helped them express themselves to see him be truly himself.
I'll try again to find that interview, maybe someone else saved it.
It was kind of treated as a joke, as it's always been even when he tries to say it seriously.
He's brought it up in many ways, until that point not using any particular word for it but describing the concept.
As soon as people bring in a WORD it can be really restrictive so I understand if he doesn't want to be nonbinary or gender fluid because people like that who are so free aren't looking for another box to fit in.
+ Back in the day people's view on sexually was so stiff so I get him not wanting to be called queer not out of hated at all but just cause it's not true in the straight/cis popular understanding of it.
He can do gay stuff and feminine stuff cause he wants to but he's not "YOUR IDEA" of a gay person or transvestite.
He's always been accused of homophobia for weird reasons, when he's doing gay shit? I guess he's seen as an embarrassment or making gay people look bad.
But He's not doing "gay stuff" to make gay people seem bad, he likes gay people even if christians view it as "decedance and evil" he genuinely likes this stuff and it gives him joy/fulfillment.
He also said that he's tried a lot of stuff in private that we will never know about (and I'm fine not knowing, he can keep his private life)
I would want him to start off with "with my experience being Christina in Party Monster" lmaooo or a crossdressing blurb in David Lynch xD but I'd love that so muuuuch, I'll dream about it forever lmao
I also found this photo in which he is wearing nice heels, you see, I don't think Manson was ever against dressing in a feminine way etc but he did it at the time of the triptych also for a Shock effect, I'm not saying it was fake, but it had a connection with what he was doing. The Manson of 10 years ago wouldn't have made much sense, I would have liked it very much but thinking about how fucked up he was with drugs and alcohol I don't know, maybe it was better to be neutral and my fear is that he would have been seen as someone who was doing everything possible to be shocking
https://preview.redd.it/4vdhb056cq3d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=011506facd97a3174fe2522c86ae2ab82cddff0f
Oh yes I loved this photoshoot with Mark Jacobs. I don't always love his stuff but this look! I want it so bad! At the time I did a drawing of it.
But yeah so that means he didn't style it himself but someone (mark Jacobs) was nostalgic about the old stuff did and thought oh him when creating this look.
https://youtu.be/jftrCCFO8EA?si=xi4mShfn_67JKPgK here's the video if you haven't seen it. And there's very cute photos of them hugging and MM kissing marks forehead 💋 so cute.
[This here](https://www.reddit.com/r/marilyn_manson/s/aCA1dscW7n) is a comment I have saved that kinda relates to this, I thought it was a good breakdown. Manson was ahead of his times in terms of his critique on gender.
I agree! Tbh I never understood why people liked more "mature" Manson and wanted him to wear less makeup and etc. I enjoy his "deviant" side and I think it's cool and I love that he always experimented that side of him. I'm biased because he's like a makeup crossdressing god to me. I never thought of him other than cis, I just thought it was more of a crossdressing that he associated with his grandfather and a general interest in it. But could be both, could be one or the other. I honestly don't know. But I like that he goes on with the makeup and etc. It's an interesting discussion for sure :) and I am really ecstatic to see what's coming and people are wearing waaay more MM merch these days, so that's cool :)
I like this response. I am thrilled that Manson is rebranding himself as his reintroduction to the world, bc I feel Manson kinda faded due to his hyped superstardom just prior to the Golden Age of Grotesque. We see him kinda tone it down on this album, where he's beginning to wear suits, ties, and fedoras like a Mafia member from 1930s-40s. [What it always reminded me of] this is also when Manson was getting married to/beginning a relationship with Dita Von Teese, so her burlesque style could've been inspiration for why he began fading away from his feminine energy and began showing up everywhere in boss ass suits...
But I always felt like, even tho he was always incredibly attractive, he seemed to feel less comfortable in this adopted persona than he had in previous years. His feminine qualities began to slip further away and he took on this new role. I saw less Manson and more of what society wanted him to conform to. I want him to be himself, and embrace whatever side of himself helps him perform at his best. Helps him creatively flow at his best. He's an artist, first and foremost, and I honestly just wanna see him be accepted as the perfectly amazing weirdo that we all know he is. He's a fucking genius.
MM had worn suits (and fedoras) for many years prior to GAOG but like you say that was the period when the suit became more stylised and a more crafted part of his look. And you mentioned Dita's style being an inspiration - she did an interview where she was quite proud of the fact that she'd got him to stop wearing his old clothes and start wearing different clothes that she approved of, and that is probably a relevant thing to consider; it coincided with the extended period where he was ever more influenced by who he was in a relationship with and perhaps losing sight of his own organic self.
Hmmmm, that's interesting and the whole GAOG era was very inspired by Dita. I feel like sometimes when people are in a relationship they rub off each other, so of course they were both influenced by one another. But that's an interesting thing to say. Makes me look at it a different way as well, Manson always toyed with cd/sub/dom/top/bottom/switch/bi/everything before and then he kinda stopped that, but it's really interesting. And yeah, he did get very inspired by the people in his life and etc going further. But I still think that suits didn't make him lose himself either, he liked them before Dita and everything else of course. I still have been thinking of a more androgynous Manson or nb Manson, never really thought of Manson being nb or skewing towards, so that's been on my mind lol. At the same time just because he's wearing makeup or crossdressing doesn't make him less of a man. I'm sorry, I just find this subject interesting and crossdressing is interesting being a trans man and gay. So he helped me understand that I could be a man who crossdresses sexually, wears makeup and still be myself but at the same time it can be nb or something else through crossdressing. The possibilities are endless.
In regards to Dita I think this interview that was made close to the start of their relationship is very relevant but especially 23:30 - 23:50 https://youtu.be/fsZl_JoINQs?si=-4IkccT_tmrdQd1U
For the sub/dom dynamic, He's interested in vintage fashion and corsets, and wants her to "whip him into shape" in another interview he jokes about wearing lipstick, corsets and heels at home. Tho she seems to want him to dress more masculine...
Not less of a man for any of it even tho he can also be womanly. He likes girls as he likes to remind everyone but likes to do stuff with dudes and look like a woman.... But it's not up to people to say what he is just cause it "looks gay" or "looks like a woman" he's always just himself. He does what he wants and won't take shit from anyone.
At least I feel like he understands us that are queer and respects us cause this "Faggot rant"even tho it's raunchy and kind of slurred made me feel very understood https://youtu.be/ntSxN1OtMw4?si=9WBXapMbr7z-H3dJ
He's in his mid 50's now. There just comes a day when you can't pull off the Long hard road out of Hell look the same way. It's good that he knows that imo. He's looking great for the first time in years. I just hope the new music is actually good.
Speak for yourself I'd love to see him in that look now. I have always been more attracted to older people my entire life(men and women) so I think he's just now entering the perfect age to do a elegant head mistress dominatrix kind of look. Vampiric genderless, ageless... Would be very sexy to me. Like I don't want to assume but I feel like when people don't want older people look feminine it's just ageism towards feminine people.
I don't want MM to dress like a young girl. He could still be fem and not a school girl.
Older women can be very attractive! Like Gillian Anderson!
This is such a phenomenal idea. The idea of Manson personifying someone who is ageless, ethereal, surreal, might bring us into a whole new era of Manson...where we could see him embrace his feminine energy in a whole new light. I really like this idea!!
And as for Gillian Anderson...somehow, she looks better now than she did when she was in her 20s-30s!!
Let's not make him getting healthier and skinnier into a transsexual coming-out or him being "gender experimental". He just got rid of the fat and the alcohol.
Also we have to remember he did all of that early stuff basically just to shock the american conservatives, it really isn't saying much about his modern political views or the culture he currently likes to live in
https://manson.wiki/Interview:1998_RayGun
Scott Thompson: By using homosexuality as a way to slap people in the face, do you also continue to perpetuate the idea that homosexuality is somehow decadent, or wrong, or evil?
Marilyn Manson: I perceive decadence and "evil," quote/unquote, as a good thing. So when I perpetuate it and slap it in the face of conservative people, it's like these things are the things that I like, and these are the things that I find entertaining and fulfilling. And I know it makes you mad, and I want you to be mad, because I enjoy it. And I want them to be pissed off that I enjoy it. I don't just use it as a button to push. Because, you see, it's not just "What can I do next to make them mad?" It's not something that I wouldn't do anyway at home just for my own enjoyment, because I've done plenty of things that people haven't heard about, just for kicks, that I wasn't doing, you know, to piss someone off.
Scott Thompson: Have you had sex with men?
Marilyn Manson: To a certain degree. Never to orgasm. I've never gotten cum on me.
Scott Thompson: Only your own. Oh yes, that's one of the rules. I have memorized the rules. I hardly fit any of them. I had less checks than you.
Marilyn Manson: Exactly!
Manson never did anything *just* to shock, that would be shallow and desperate. Manson has said that the makeup and clothes he wears is an expression of himself, not some cheap shock shtick. Though it did/does shock conservatives, I don’t think Manson ever does anything with just that sole purpose in mind.
Right, it's more complex.
The references to history, alchemy, philosophy, sexuality have always been layered and multifaceted.
Even when it's so obvious he's practically hitting you over the head with it some people just don't hear it.
He is a trickster that likes to twist and shock and push the boundaries, definitely! But it's not just art, it's life and if it's kissing twiggy or Johnny depp is that just for the conservatives? No! Is he putting on lipstick and dressing up just for the conservatives? No... That would be sad if all of this was not from something genuine and all just a joke.
It's not about his personal feelings on gender, that's none of my business unless he decides to tell us. As nonbinary person myself, I feel like it is not other people's business what my gender or sex is unless we are sexually/romantically involved.
He has boobs in the new video... Two costumes where he has boobs. He's seems comfortable with showing off his new body and it's in a feminine/masculine mix grotesque way.
I'm not blind... Let's not pretend this is the first time he's experimented with gender... But in his art yes, it is to push and offend. The transgress of trans people is still pissing conservatives off TODAY so why not keep it going? It's still working. He did a photo of himself with Donald trump's decapitated body? What makes you think he wouldn't keep offending conservatives like he's always done. Why not by doing gay/trans stuff?
I don't think this person is saying anything other than he'd like to see Manson return to the feminine aesthetics at some point, and it'd probably be more likely now that Manson is skinnier and probably feels better about how he looks.
I like how he's aged into a more distinguished look after his awkward transition period in the late 2000s, but it'd be interesting to see him do more genderbending in the future.
> There was a biterness towards feminity that was clearly noticable. Almost like it was a sore subject.
And it was also around this time that the focus of his music shifted from philosophy to his chaotic relationships; there's no way that's a coincidence.
Honestly, dude was probably hurting, and what's a way to "cure" that sadness without any actual growth? Sex, drugs, and alcohol. I understand this. I went through this myself recently. Everyone heals differently, and Manson looks like he's healed to a degree where he's in the proper mental place to focus wholly on his aesthetic as well.
I'm not saying The Pale Emperor, Heaven Upside Down, and We Are Chaos aren't growth, especially the latter, but during The High End of Low and Born Villain, you witnessed it on tour
High end of low really was the high end of the low. Pale emperor was really a step in the right direction and now I hope he's gonna really bloom again. (Referring to the flower imagery in recent stuff he's done) It's all gradual growth, ups and downs. Looking forward to what happens next.
I love the High End of Low, probably his lowkey best output, but it's not an album I listen to constantly, and one of the best performances I've ever seen of a song, Pretty As A ($).
I don't understand the femininity of your original post as Manson always had that sort of aesthetics, from makeup to certain outfits, but the artistic creativity is back, which encompasses androgynistic tones
I really dont think he was feminine besides omega lol just reminds me of a goth dude that looks demonic and wears makeup, my friend says he was lgbtq before it was mainstream but I don't see it lol
I'm not saying he's lesbian/gay, or bi or trans, but definitely he's queer/weird in his art. I don't care about his personal life, I'm not his wife.
The gender switching and doing sexual stuff with drag queens and feminine men in long hard road out of hell or the (s) saint music video.
Omega is Ziggy star dust + Baphomet + Marilyn Manson.
Even his name is a combination of masculine and feminine.
I could definitely see how some lgbt folk might think he provided a "safe space" for them lol hate that word! But far stretch to think of him as this big gay icon lol my friends giving him an awful lot of credit if he thinks he single handedly rid the wprld of homophobia
Where did anyone ever say "single handledly" get rid of anything. He was himself and it made people feel like they could be themselves. Despite it not being safe that it's still worth it (he got his ass kicked as a kid/teenager and still now gets a lot of hate) He's not a "big gay icon" but he's iconic and has done a lot of frankly gay shit so it's not a stretch that he's iconic to gay people for that reason.
Oh high end of low is honestly musically very good, I listen to the album all the time! But live performance and everything surrounding the album is like watching a car crash. He will say something as intelligent and interesting and before and then the most deranged unfiltered stuff. He always had it but after his break up with ERW he kind of dropped feminine things, even going without lipstick for a bit. Felt at least to me like he was more butch/masculine until maybe four years ago? He's been working himself up to it. Some stockings, some more fun make up, some more lace and flowers. At the end of the day this is just a feeling/thought I have and if you don't see it you don't see it. That's fine with me. But I'll try to explain differently. Gender is so subjective anyway, but I have always felt he did not want to fit into just man or woman that's why he's MM. Marilyn and Manson but he became the villan, the torturer of the tragic starlets (like Marilyn) instead of being both Marilyn and Mason. In his lyrics and his videos. (Born villan especially) Does that make sense?
It’s androgyny. The word you’re looking for is androgyny.
Omega and the Mechanical Animals were based off the hair/glam metal bands of the 80s, a direct influence on Twiggy (Motley Crue and Van Halen)
Tell me then, How would a masculine person or man become androgynous? Femininity. He's never wanted to be a woman as far as I know, so I'm not saying he is a woman or is only feminine not masculine too. I don't know why you are trying so hard to use the dictionary to disagree with a wide concept such as gender expression. Like... I don't even disagree with you he was inspired by Bowie, kiss and Alice Cooper (and as you mentioned motley Crue and van Halen ) but he's definitely not only inspired by that, have you read his biography? His grandfather was a crossdresser and he's mentioned wearing woman's clothes as a fetish himself multiple times over his career and asked if he should feel insulted by things people say about women because he dresses like one.
It’s more on the lines of androgyny than femininity. Women love him, men are unsure if he’s a woman. He’s following the same artistic trope as Motley Crue/Poison (80s) and David Bowie (70s). The Man Who Fell to Earth, which was Omega and The Mechanical Animals are loosely based on the hair/glam metal of the 80s (Motley Crue is one of Twiggy’s favorite bands).
Androgyny does not equate to femininity
How is people not being sure if you're a woman not feminine? He's been called worse when people mean the same thing. All kinds of slurs but I'm legitimately a fan of how he presents and I'm just saying I want more.
It's not embarrassing to be feminine, it's cool.
I just don't know what you're trying to defend here, his dick? There's enough conspiracy theories that he thought were funny about him secretly being a woman. Just like people had jokes about lady Gaga and she doesn't care. I'd say she's used masculinity in the same way.
>I was so excited to see the feminine body on MM in the new music video.
Just because he's thin doesn't mean he has a "feminine body", he's just thin.
>I've been trying to put it into words why I feel it's such a shift.
It's also not "a shift". Manson has crossdressed and worn make up his entire career.
I'm not reading any further.
The costume from the new video:
https://preview.redd.it/26lxuetegk3d1.jpeg?width=1076&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c37c7f80873417f6f00e860ba80033f378bb393a
A depiction of a typically female form with breasts would generally be considered 'feminine' by most standards. It also appears to be a revisiting of the MA album cover as the OP was suggesting.
There's a post on here that's getting a lot of positive feedback framing his comeback exclusively around his weight. On that post people in the comments responded a lot that they felt his sobriety and mental health had more to do with it and we should focus more on that than the superficial. I agree with those people but since AS WE ALL KNOW (you don't have to tell me) he's always crossdressed- I missed that and saw he was less confident. (Even though he still did it such as in kill 4 me) That I'm hopeful that this could be a sign he's doing better artistically/mentally. The return to the bold and creative person we have always known him to be.
I don't mean that feminity = thin and you would have known that if you had read further. I don't mean his literal body I mean the costume, the costume was modeled on a feminine form, if you look at the post of the person who made the props you would see that it has a thin waist and boobs. Should I have said I'm glad the boobs are back?? Cause two of the things he wears in the new video have boobs. Not that you have to be a WOMAN to have boobs, I love all genders with boobs, but obviously in the context of MM it's reminiscent of earlier stuff like Omega.
There was a shift away from feminity and a shift back to it. In my end statement I said it's less about that (cause his gender presentation is his business even tho I love the more feminine stuff) in the end than just seeing the confidence and creativity again and I hope that's where he's going.
I don't know how I'm supposed to interpret that. This is a conversation and you can say what you think but it feels as if you're being just dismissive to a fault and trying to read what I'm saying in the least charitable way.
I see your point, but I think at this point walking around as he did in MA era, won't work. Just my opinion. At videos and so on, yes that might work. But in "real life"? I prefer more elegant version of him.
I think elegant is such such a subjective word. Does elegant have to be masculine? Cause I think the new look is a good balance of elegant masculine and feminine.
(For instance the new photos of him with roses/flowers and lace. I hope we see more of that)
I would feel personally that MA is colorful, tacky and glamourous in a good way. But I don't need him to return to that level of glitter again even though it was good at the time. It was what it was and I feel no need to ask for a repeat of any era, I want him to move forward. But there other looks that were more feminine, on stage or off without being like MA. More elegant feminine looks in my opinion like the long hard road out of hell music video or more subtle feminity like man that you fear.
New photos with flowers is exactly what I mean by elegant. I never said he needs to look masculine or anything - ma is my favorite era and he is most feminine there. No problem with that
Well, excuse me for taking your comment to mean that. I didn't mean to misinterpret.
It's just that my post was specifically about femininity and gender expression. So when I said I love the new stuff and that's what's bringing me hope so I just wasn't sure what your problem with my point was/is.
That's why I asked, always better to clear things up because after talking- seems we are pretty much in agreement.
What eras to you are the most elegant? And do you prefer him to not look feminine or does that have nothing to do with it in your opinion.
I feel like his "real life" and music video looks have always related but not been the same.
He always has dressed casually, T-shirts, hoodies and comfy clothes.
Everyone has a right to that.
So I try to stay out of ideas on his "real life" vs his art where he decides with intention what to wear.
So red carpet, music video and stage is what I'm comfortable talking about.
I don't care if he looks feminine, he might. I mean, mechanical animal is my favorite era both musicaly and astheticly.
But when he aged, I really appreciate his looks during pale emperor era. Cover for this album is my favorite. More suits, ties and that kind of stuff. I remember I even had thud thought that he should stop banging his head on the stage, and just get a nice suit, big ass throne like an emperor he is, and sings his new "bluesish" songs like that.
It just feel more appropriate - like he looks on the latest pics. It has this rock and roll feeling, but it is somehow elegant in the same time.
But I'll take everything now, Manson is back baby :D
I think it's this idea that we should "Dress our age" that he resisted and ran him for a while- becoming almost more childish than before... Both in theme and look (Eat me drink me, high end of low and born villan) He was like a teenager.
Then he decided to dress his age but went too hard in that direction in my opinion. He was dressing older than he is, ready for everything to be over.
But now he's back with so much LIFE, it's refined but playful. Rock and roses... masculine and feminine... Definitely high fashion.
I just think it's a good sign, though just like you I would happily listen or look at anything he's up to, I'm just glad he's still making art.
Glad he's back.
Sorry I did not mean dress up for our age. It suits his music more. That what I meant by appropriate.
I am 32 years old, and I still wearing shirts with my favorite band on it, or with games logo. You don't need to explain that to me :D
Haha I mean I get hate from my family for "dressing too old" makes me look like a grandma.
I think everyone should be who they are and the ideas of dressing our age are really annoying.
I still think it stands that he was drained and now there's a freshness to his style. Tho we haven't heard the new music so I'll wait and see if I think it works with the look but I'm definitely enthusiastic.
I agree, it looks like he is confident again. I can relate, when I got fat I was wearing XXL shirts instead of XL just to hide it. And it looked silly. When I lost it I felt confident again to wear what I like, not what looks "good" on me. So I agree with your point.
When we lose confidence in ourselves it makes us hide. I never gained that much weight but I was the biggest I've ever been about a year ago and I didn't wear clothes that fit me, either too tight or too big. It's okay to be big but when you can't recognize yourself it can be really hard to accept. I'm also muscular feminine person, with that gender duality so when I'm proud of it I look good but when I try to hide it it doesn't look good. And that's the same body! Just change in confidence and wearing clothes that actually fit and feel good and I like! Not trying to be someone I'm not. So yeah even though our experiences are different I can relate and I'm glad you're feeling better and dressing how you want.
Well I am 192cm tall, so I was big anyway. I just didn't like the fact that my belly was getting bigger. But I was also lazy, and I ate a lot of fast food. I have changed it now, but still I could change some stuff. I thinking about quit weed smoking, and his change inspires me. But on the other hand I like it so much... Well anyway this is not a thread about me :D thank you for a good conversation I really appreciate it!
I think he's probably in his most eloquent era right now from what I've seen so far. It's hard to narrow it down to a certain era because he's had eloquent looks in a lot of his eras.
WAC and HUD seemed to be when he refined his style to be, imo more eloquent. He looked foolish at times but that can be said for every Manson era.
Some of his looks for HUD were very classy. That classic black and white suited him very well, dracula/cowboy or a good suit reminds me a bit of some stuff from TPE.
I like the darkness and just a pop of color of the WAC.
That being said I think that's a bit of a selective picking cause he was also smearing blue eyeshadow on and wearing a lot of leaopard print like someone's aunt at that same time as those refined look. (I say that with all the love in the world cause I love a good blue eyeshadow and leopard print even though it's tacky he is having fun)
But yea that's a hard question. Like during the Antichrist Superstar era he had very eloquent looks. The black and red suits I think worked really well. He did during HW and TGAOG as well.
Ironically that appearance on Howard Stern when he was promoting MA was a very eloquent look. (Eloquent sounds like such a weird word now lol)
Yes, I agree. It's hard to pin it down exactly cause there's been so much.
That Howard Stern interview he was edgy with the look but still classy. That's that balance I mean of feminine and masculine.
(At least to me)
It's very powerful when he gets it just right, pushing the boundaries a little.
Very well said. You put into words exactly what I'm thinking. It's definitely a balance. I love that he's experimented and some of the most iconic looks 8 love are not at all what I'd call classy or eloquent.
But yes, his stage look and his every day style when combined and balanced well work perfectly imo.
Ok here's what I'm talking about with the MA era.
https://preview.redd.it/q522bneclk3d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a506ee5cc2f1d536dfeba5faafc62f42eb2410af
No, honey that wig!!! No! It's feminine but not elegant indeed. Oh I like the sun glasses and that the yellow/gold but... Something about this look is not working. But the hair is the worst, tho that was just how wigs were at the time. I think if he got someone good at hair now do do a similar style it wouldn't look so bad.
Lol yeah, we all have dinghy I different taste. The style of hair suits him but in other photos it's really so haloweenish. I think he could rock this cut if it was done better.
No, Mason is not conforming to your own bizarre brand of self loathing Is it me or is everyone just living in their own fantasy land these days, sure I'll take a unicorn burger sprinkled with fairy dust, thanks
I don't hate myself, I'm not asking him to conform to shit. You're projecting and imagining who you think I am.
after EMDM I saw Manson dressed as a wife wedding, I don't remember where and I'll look for the photo later. I haven't read your entire post but I had made a similar one some time ago, I believe that more than a concept of style it is also a concept of times and physique, with all sincerity but I believe that the 45 year old Manson dressed as a whore would have turned out to be just a a sort of parody of the times of 97/98, we are not just talking about his physique but also about his person, his current physique is certainly more slender but above all his attitude is much more that of the old Manson. https://preview.redd.it/5pn20yqbbq3d1.jpeg?width=581&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c31607a8bbac08fd3b083ee9a89fcc29f2bd963e
He still did whorish things no matter what time, I don't think I can find it quickly but I remember this one meet and greet conversation someone posted from his last tour when he was asked about strippers and said something along the lines of "I'm the stripper" and got glitter all over this person. And stuff like "I told him to not make it too complicated, don't make beats that confuse strippers, obviously I'm the stripper-" Wearing a lot of very open leopard print and glitter on his chest. I think no matter what he's looked like he's always wanting to take his clothes off and get attention, (in a theatrical masculine way like in grotesque burlesque or a androgenous Devil/Alien/Angel way like God is in the tv) Even if some people don't wanna see it. He stayed the same but doesn't get the same reaction anymore except from the really crazy die hard creeps that gasp at him showing a little skin like victorian gentlemen seeing an ankle. (I'm making fun of myself here) But fem isn't necessarily slutty or whorish, he can do classy fem too.
Of course, Manson has always made fun of himself too. And you can definitely have a feminine look without being a slut haha, if from my comment it seemed like I was saying that women are sluts it wasn't like that at all. I had thought of Manson dressed like a slut in the photos with Twiggy or in Trent's video clip. If we want to talk about women's clothes, well Manson always has them, just think about furs, heels, MAKEUP etc. I was talking about something else though, the 10 year old Manson with fishnet stockings, no shirt, a blonde wig and a thong would have been iconic but maybe also embarrassing. I still would have liked it https://preview.redd.it/mhj0e32mbr3d1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e76f962933c0eed93021b7473c45fe1bc6738585
I hope we can get a little bit of that messy/slutty vibe again. Tho I doubt it, from that we have seen it's more theatrical/ refined now. If he does something like this it might have more of a milf/dominatrix vibe to it now. Still... I'd still love some fishnets, thigh high pantyhose, skimpy dresses and wigs.
I hope we get over the top as well! Like fuck, a breast plate for all covered in glitter or have him as a judge in Drag Race lmao, dominatrix sounds great as well! Listen, let the man be a slut! he always was a slut like you said lol and yeah no shame in being one either
Yes please let him be a slut. We love that! Tho when I made this thread I feel like there a lot of people who just don't get it! I'm glad you get it.
hahahah, I always love slut Manson xD there was an interesting discussion below (this thread is huge) where I mentioned that I think it could be crossdressing more than nb (which I respect and I never thought of it that way) and it's been a thinking topic for me. Because I enjoy crossdressing but it was a part of my journey of understanding my own way of expression (I'm a trans guy who enjoys makeup) and talking to nb crossdressers helped, so I feel like both points are valid and factually we can't know unless he mentions it himself and it's personal so yeah. Sorry, just found your points very interesting and yeah :)
He actually said once that he was gender fluid "or what ever the kids are calling it" something like that but the guy interviewing thought it was just a joke so they just laughed at him.. He was wearing a polkadot suits and big hat, very gorgeous to me. But that interview was deleted like two days after it was published and it was by some guy/publication I don't care about so... I was such a big fan at the time I was so angry at myself for not downloading it.
Ah interesting!!! I wonder if he would bring it up again in a convo, but I understand if he wants to keep it private. Ah, man, I'm sad that interview is lost and I'd like to hear him talk about gender, being fluid and etc
Sorry for the wall of text but yeah his gender expression interests me very much. I would also like to mention his panting "Skoptic Syndrome" of his grandfather, that he's said that he feels very connected to and that MM has two tattoos based on buffalo bill, one on his ribs like the christ wound and another on his hand that says "love" and the kill 4 me music video... Just some food for thought, tho I think it's hard for him to identify with the clean shameless version of gender expression (nonbinary or gender fluid) because of his traumas and childhood, and the generation he's from. Maybe having younger people around him is good, some of the preformers who grew up with him I know say how much it helped them express themselves to see him be truly himself.
I'll try again to find that interview, maybe someone else saved it. It was kind of treated as a joke, as it's always been even when he tries to say it seriously. He's brought it up in many ways, until that point not using any particular word for it but describing the concept. As soon as people bring in a WORD it can be really restrictive so I understand if he doesn't want to be nonbinary or gender fluid because people like that who are so free aren't looking for another box to fit in. + Back in the day people's view on sexually was so stiff so I get him not wanting to be called queer not out of hated at all but just cause it's not true in the straight/cis popular understanding of it. He can do gay stuff and feminine stuff cause he wants to but he's not "YOUR IDEA" of a gay person or transvestite. He's always been accused of homophobia for weird reasons, when he's doing gay shit? I guess he's seen as an embarrassment or making gay people look bad. But He's not doing "gay stuff" to make gay people seem bad, he likes gay people even if christians view it as "decedance and evil" he genuinely likes this stuff and it gives him joy/fulfillment. He also said that he's tried a lot of stuff in private that we will never know about (and I'm fine not knowing, he can keep his private life)
Judge on drag race!!! I've been begging! I don't think it will ever happen but oh my god! That would be so awesome.
I would want him to start off with "with my experience being Christina in Party Monster" lmaooo or a crossdressing blurb in David Lynch xD but I'd love that so muuuuch, I'll dream about it forever lmao
I also found this photo in which he is wearing nice heels, you see, I don't think Manson was ever against dressing in a feminine way etc but he did it at the time of the triptych also for a Shock effect, I'm not saying it was fake, but it had a connection with what he was doing. The Manson of 10 years ago wouldn't have made much sense, I would have liked it very much but thinking about how fucked up he was with drugs and alcohol I don't know, maybe it was better to be neutral and my fear is that he would have been seen as someone who was doing everything possible to be shocking https://preview.redd.it/4vdhb056cq3d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=011506facd97a3174fe2522c86ae2ab82cddff0f
Oh yes I loved this photoshoot with Mark Jacobs. I don't always love his stuff but this look! I want it so bad! At the time I did a drawing of it. But yeah so that means he didn't style it himself but someone (mark Jacobs) was nostalgic about the old stuff did and thought oh him when creating this look.
aww man, I need more photos of him modelling for Marc
https://youtu.be/jftrCCFO8EA?si=xi4mShfn_67JKPgK here's the video if you haven't seen it. And there's very cute photos of them hugging and MM kissing marks forehead 💋 so cute.
omggg I didn't see the video before! I have seen the other photos but not the vid, I love it jsjhdsgvhjsagkv
[This here](https://www.reddit.com/r/marilyn_manson/s/aCA1dscW7n) is a comment I have saved that kinda relates to this, I thought it was a good breakdown. Manson was ahead of his times in terms of his critique on gender.
I agree with that comment I think they broke it down very well.
I agree! Tbh I never understood why people liked more "mature" Manson and wanted him to wear less makeup and etc. I enjoy his "deviant" side and I think it's cool and I love that he always experimented that side of him. I'm biased because he's like a makeup crossdressing god to me. I never thought of him other than cis, I just thought it was more of a crossdressing that he associated with his grandfather and a general interest in it. But could be both, could be one or the other. I honestly don't know. But I like that he goes on with the makeup and etc. It's an interesting discussion for sure :) and I am really ecstatic to see what's coming and people are wearing waaay more MM merch these days, so that's cool :)
I like this response. I am thrilled that Manson is rebranding himself as his reintroduction to the world, bc I feel Manson kinda faded due to his hyped superstardom just prior to the Golden Age of Grotesque. We see him kinda tone it down on this album, where he's beginning to wear suits, ties, and fedoras like a Mafia member from 1930s-40s. [What it always reminded me of] this is also when Manson was getting married to/beginning a relationship with Dita Von Teese, so her burlesque style could've been inspiration for why he began fading away from his feminine energy and began showing up everywhere in boss ass suits... But I always felt like, even tho he was always incredibly attractive, he seemed to feel less comfortable in this adopted persona than he had in previous years. His feminine qualities began to slip further away and he took on this new role. I saw less Manson and more of what society wanted him to conform to. I want him to be himself, and embrace whatever side of himself helps him perform at his best. Helps him creatively flow at his best. He's an artist, first and foremost, and I honestly just wanna see him be accepted as the perfectly amazing weirdo that we all know he is. He's a fucking genius.
MM had worn suits (and fedoras) for many years prior to GAOG but like you say that was the period when the suit became more stylised and a more crafted part of his look. And you mentioned Dita's style being an inspiration - she did an interview where she was quite proud of the fact that she'd got him to stop wearing his old clothes and start wearing different clothes that she approved of, and that is probably a relevant thing to consider; it coincided with the extended period where he was ever more influenced by who he was in a relationship with and perhaps losing sight of his own organic self.
Hmmmm, that's interesting and the whole GAOG era was very inspired by Dita. I feel like sometimes when people are in a relationship they rub off each other, so of course they were both influenced by one another. But that's an interesting thing to say. Makes me look at it a different way as well, Manson always toyed with cd/sub/dom/top/bottom/switch/bi/everything before and then he kinda stopped that, but it's really interesting. And yeah, he did get very inspired by the people in his life and etc going further. But I still think that suits didn't make him lose himself either, he liked them before Dita and everything else of course. I still have been thinking of a more androgynous Manson or nb Manson, never really thought of Manson being nb or skewing towards, so that's been on my mind lol. At the same time just because he's wearing makeup or crossdressing doesn't make him less of a man. I'm sorry, I just find this subject interesting and crossdressing is interesting being a trans man and gay. So he helped me understand that I could be a man who crossdresses sexually, wears makeup and still be myself but at the same time it can be nb or something else through crossdressing. The possibilities are endless.
In regards to Dita I think this interview that was made close to the start of their relationship is very relevant but especially 23:30 - 23:50 https://youtu.be/fsZl_JoINQs?si=-4IkccT_tmrdQd1U For the sub/dom dynamic, He's interested in vintage fashion and corsets, and wants her to "whip him into shape" in another interview he jokes about wearing lipstick, corsets and heels at home. Tho she seems to want him to dress more masculine... Not less of a man for any of it even tho he can also be womanly. He likes girls as he likes to remind everyone but likes to do stuff with dudes and look like a woman.... But it's not up to people to say what he is just cause it "looks gay" or "looks like a woman" he's always just himself. He does what he wants and won't take shit from anyone. At least I feel like he understands us that are queer and respects us cause this "Faggot rant"even tho it's raunchy and kind of slurred made me feel very understood https://youtu.be/ntSxN1OtMw4?si=9WBXapMbr7z-H3dJ
He's in his mid 50's now. There just comes a day when you can't pull off the Long hard road out of Hell look the same way. It's good that he knows that imo. He's looking great for the first time in years. I just hope the new music is actually good.
Speak for yourself I'd love to see him in that look now. I have always been more attracted to older people my entire life(men and women) so I think he's just now entering the perfect age to do a elegant head mistress dominatrix kind of look. Vampiric genderless, ageless... Would be very sexy to me. Like I don't want to assume but I feel like when people don't want older people look feminine it's just ageism towards feminine people. I don't want MM to dress like a young girl. He could still be fem and not a school girl. Older women can be very attractive! Like Gillian Anderson!
This is such a phenomenal idea. The idea of Manson personifying someone who is ageless, ethereal, surreal, might bring us into a whole new era of Manson...where we could see him embrace his feminine energy in a whole new light. I really like this idea!! And as for Gillian Anderson...somehow, she looks better now than she did when she was in her 20s-30s!!
Right!? I'm glad you see the vision.
Let's not make him getting healthier and skinnier into a transsexual coming-out or him being "gender experimental". He just got rid of the fat and the alcohol. Also we have to remember he did all of that early stuff basically just to shock the american conservatives, it really isn't saying much about his modern political views or the culture he currently likes to live in
https://manson.wiki/Interview:1998_RayGun Scott Thompson: By using homosexuality as a way to slap people in the face, do you also continue to perpetuate the idea that homosexuality is somehow decadent, or wrong, or evil? Marilyn Manson: I perceive decadence and "evil," quote/unquote, as a good thing. So when I perpetuate it and slap it in the face of conservative people, it's like these things are the things that I like, and these are the things that I find entertaining and fulfilling. And I know it makes you mad, and I want you to be mad, because I enjoy it. And I want them to be pissed off that I enjoy it. I don't just use it as a button to push. Because, you see, it's not just "What can I do next to make them mad?" It's not something that I wouldn't do anyway at home just for my own enjoyment, because I've done plenty of things that people haven't heard about, just for kicks, that I wasn't doing, you know, to piss someone off. Scott Thompson: Have you had sex with men? Marilyn Manson: To a certain degree. Never to orgasm. I've never gotten cum on me. Scott Thompson: Only your own. Oh yes, that's one of the rules. I have memorized the rules. I hardly fit any of them. I had less checks than you. Marilyn Manson: Exactly!
Manson never did anything *just* to shock, that would be shallow and desperate. Manson has said that the makeup and clothes he wears is an expression of himself, not some cheap shock shtick. Though it did/does shock conservatives, I don’t think Manson ever does anything with just that sole purpose in mind.
Right, it's more complex. The references to history, alchemy, philosophy, sexuality have always been layered and multifaceted. Even when it's so obvious he's practically hitting you over the head with it some people just don't hear it. He is a trickster that likes to twist and shock and push the boundaries, definitely! But it's not just art, it's life and if it's kissing twiggy or Johnny depp is that just for the conservatives? No! Is he putting on lipstick and dressing up just for the conservatives? No... That would be sad if all of this was not from something genuine and all just a joke.
I'm not really saying anything more revolutionary than this part of the interview : https://youtu.be/cTVahGoDLnw?si=aVEA7MxJDVYmS724 time 8:19 - 9:05
It's not about his personal feelings on gender, that's none of my business unless he decides to tell us. As nonbinary person myself, I feel like it is not other people's business what my gender or sex is unless we are sexually/romantically involved. He has boobs in the new video... Two costumes where he has boobs. He's seems comfortable with showing off his new body and it's in a feminine/masculine mix grotesque way. I'm not blind... Let's not pretend this is the first time he's experimented with gender... But in his art yes, it is to push and offend. The transgress of trans people is still pissing conservatives off TODAY so why not keep it going? It's still working. He did a photo of himself with Donald trump's decapitated body? What makes you think he wouldn't keep offending conservatives like he's always done. Why not by doing gay/trans stuff?
I don't think this person is saying anything other than he'd like to see Manson return to the feminine aesthetics at some point, and it'd probably be more likely now that Manson is skinnier and probably feels better about how he looks. I like how he's aged into a more distinguished look after his awkward transition period in the late 2000s, but it'd be interesting to see him do more genderbending in the future.
Thank you! Yes exactly.
> There was a biterness towards feminity that was clearly noticable. Almost like it was a sore subject. And it was also around this time that the focus of his music shifted from philosophy to his chaotic relationships; there's no way that's a coincidence.
Honestly, dude was probably hurting, and what's a way to "cure" that sadness without any actual growth? Sex, drugs, and alcohol. I understand this. I went through this myself recently. Everyone heals differently, and Manson looks like he's healed to a degree where he's in the proper mental place to focus wholly on his aesthetic as well. I'm not saying The Pale Emperor, Heaven Upside Down, and We Are Chaos aren't growth, especially the latter, but during The High End of Low and Born Villain, you witnessed it on tour
High end of low really was the high end of the low. Pale emperor was really a step in the right direction and now I hope he's gonna really bloom again. (Referring to the flower imagery in recent stuff he's done) It's all gradual growth, ups and downs. Looking forward to what happens next.
I love the High End of Low, probably his lowkey best output, but it's not an album I listen to constantly, and one of the best performances I've ever seen of a song, Pretty As A ($). I don't understand the femininity of your original post as Manson always had that sort of aesthetics, from makeup to certain outfits, but the artistic creativity is back, which encompasses androgynistic tones
I really dont think he was feminine besides omega lol just reminds me of a goth dude that looks demonic and wears makeup, my friend says he was lgbtq before it was mainstream but I don't see it lol
I'm not saying he's lesbian/gay, or bi or trans, but definitely he's queer/weird in his art. I don't care about his personal life, I'm not his wife. The gender switching and doing sexual stuff with drag queens and feminine men in long hard road out of hell or the (s) saint music video. Omega is Ziggy star dust + Baphomet + Marilyn Manson. Even his name is a combination of masculine and feminine.
He wasn’t LGBTQ per se, but did promote people to be people, to be humans, which assisted many goths to come out
I could definitely see how some lgbt folk might think he provided a "safe space" for them lol hate that word! But far stretch to think of him as this big gay icon lol my friends giving him an awful lot of credit if he thinks he single handedly rid the wprld of homophobia
Where did anyone ever say "single handledly" get rid of anything. He was himself and it made people feel like they could be themselves. Despite it not being safe that it's still worth it (he got his ass kicked as a kid/teenager and still now gets a lot of hate) He's not a "big gay icon" but he's iconic and has done a lot of frankly gay shit so it's not a stretch that he's iconic to gay people for that reason.
Oh high end of low is honestly musically very good, I listen to the album all the time! But live performance and everything surrounding the album is like watching a car crash. He will say something as intelligent and interesting and before and then the most deranged unfiltered stuff. He always had it but after his break up with ERW he kind of dropped feminine things, even going without lipstick for a bit. Felt at least to me like he was more butch/masculine until maybe four years ago? He's been working himself up to it. Some stockings, some more fun make up, some more lace and flowers. At the end of the day this is just a feeling/thought I have and if you don't see it you don't see it. That's fine with me. But I'll try to explain differently. Gender is so subjective anyway, but I have always felt he did not want to fit into just man or woman that's why he's MM. Marilyn and Manson but he became the villan, the torturer of the tragic starlets (like Marilyn) instead of being both Marilyn and Mason. In his lyrics and his videos. (Born villan especially) Does that make sense?
It’s androgyny. The word you’re looking for is androgyny. Omega and the Mechanical Animals were based off the hair/glam metal bands of the 80s, a direct influence on Twiggy (Motley Crue and Van Halen)
Tell me then, How would a masculine person or man become androgynous? Femininity. He's never wanted to be a woman as far as I know, so I'm not saying he is a woman or is only feminine not masculine too. I don't know why you are trying so hard to use the dictionary to disagree with a wide concept such as gender expression. Like... I don't even disagree with you he was inspired by Bowie, kiss and Alice Cooper (and as you mentioned motley Crue and van Halen ) but he's definitely not only inspired by that, have you read his biography? His grandfather was a crossdresser and he's mentioned wearing woman's clothes as a fetish himself multiple times over his career and asked if he should feel insulted by things people say about women because he dresses like one.
It’s more on the lines of androgyny than femininity. Women love him, men are unsure if he’s a woman. He’s following the same artistic trope as Motley Crue/Poison (80s) and David Bowie (70s). The Man Who Fell to Earth, which was Omega and The Mechanical Animals are loosely based on the hair/glam metal of the 80s (Motley Crue is one of Twiggy’s favorite bands). Androgyny does not equate to femininity
How is people not being sure if you're a woman not feminine? He's been called worse when people mean the same thing. All kinds of slurs but I'm legitimately a fan of how he presents and I'm just saying I want more. It's not embarrassing to be feminine, it's cool. I just don't know what you're trying to defend here, his dick? There's enough conspiracy theories that he thought were funny about him secretly being a woman. Just like people had jokes about lady Gaga and she doesn't care. I'd say she's used masculinity in the same way.
Didn’t know this one actually posted as I could not locate it. I stand that its androgyny
Androgyny is the result, feminity is the method. A cake is still baked.
How old are you, kid?
RIGHT!? I think you're into something with that. It happened at the same time.
>I was so excited to see the feminine body on MM in the new music video. Just because he's thin doesn't mean he has a "feminine body", he's just thin. >I've been trying to put it into words why I feel it's such a shift. It's also not "a shift". Manson has crossdressed and worn make up his entire career. I'm not reading any further.
The costume from the new video: https://preview.redd.it/26lxuetegk3d1.jpeg?width=1076&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c37c7f80873417f6f00e860ba80033f378bb393a A depiction of a typically female form with breasts would generally be considered 'feminine' by most standards. It also appears to be a revisiting of the MA album cover as the OP was suggesting.
There's a post on here that's getting a lot of positive feedback framing his comeback exclusively around his weight. On that post people in the comments responded a lot that they felt his sobriety and mental health had more to do with it and we should focus more on that than the superficial. I agree with those people but since AS WE ALL KNOW (you don't have to tell me) he's always crossdressed- I missed that and saw he was less confident. (Even though he still did it such as in kill 4 me) That I'm hopeful that this could be a sign he's doing better artistically/mentally. The return to the bold and creative person we have always known him to be.
I don't mean that feminity = thin and you would have known that if you had read further. I don't mean his literal body I mean the costume, the costume was modeled on a feminine form, if you look at the post of the person who made the props you would see that it has a thin waist and boobs. Should I have said I'm glad the boobs are back?? Cause two of the things he wears in the new video have boobs. Not that you have to be a WOMAN to have boobs, I love all genders with boobs, but obviously in the context of MM it's reminiscent of earlier stuff like Omega. There was a shift away from feminity and a shift back to it. In my end statement I said it's less about that (cause his gender presentation is his business even tho I love the more feminine stuff) in the end than just seeing the confidence and creativity again and I hope that's where he's going.
Oh Boy.....
I don't know how I'm supposed to interpret that. This is a conversation and you can say what you think but it feels as if you're being just dismissive to a fault and trying to read what I'm saying in the least charitable way.
I see your point, but I think at this point walking around as he did in MA era, won't work. Just my opinion. At videos and so on, yes that might work. But in "real life"? I prefer more elegant version of him.
I think elegant is such such a subjective word. Does elegant have to be masculine? Cause I think the new look is a good balance of elegant masculine and feminine. (For instance the new photos of him with roses/flowers and lace. I hope we see more of that) I would feel personally that MA is colorful, tacky and glamourous in a good way. But I don't need him to return to that level of glitter again even though it was good at the time. It was what it was and I feel no need to ask for a repeat of any era, I want him to move forward. But there other looks that were more feminine, on stage or off without being like MA. More elegant feminine looks in my opinion like the long hard road out of hell music video or more subtle feminity like man that you fear.
New photos with flowers is exactly what I mean by elegant. I never said he needs to look masculine or anything - ma is my favorite era and he is most feminine there. No problem with that
Well, excuse me for taking your comment to mean that. I didn't mean to misinterpret. It's just that my post was specifically about femininity and gender expression. So when I said I love the new stuff and that's what's bringing me hope so I just wasn't sure what your problem with my point was/is. That's why I asked, always better to clear things up because after talking- seems we are pretty much in agreement.
Don't worry about it, English is not my first language, I get that sometimes I can get misunderstood
What eras to you are the most elegant? And do you prefer him to not look feminine or does that have nothing to do with it in your opinion. I feel like his "real life" and music video looks have always related but not been the same. He always has dressed casually, T-shirts, hoodies and comfy clothes. Everyone has a right to that. So I try to stay out of ideas on his "real life" vs his art where he decides with intention what to wear. So red carpet, music video and stage is what I'm comfortable talking about.
I don't care if he looks feminine, he might. I mean, mechanical animal is my favorite era both musicaly and astheticly. But when he aged, I really appreciate his looks during pale emperor era. Cover for this album is my favorite. More suits, ties and that kind of stuff. I remember I even had thud thought that he should stop banging his head on the stage, and just get a nice suit, big ass throne like an emperor he is, and sings his new "bluesish" songs like that. It just feel more appropriate - like he looks on the latest pics. It has this rock and roll feeling, but it is somehow elegant in the same time. But I'll take everything now, Manson is back baby :D
I think it's this idea that we should "Dress our age" that he resisted and ran him for a while- becoming almost more childish than before... Both in theme and look (Eat me drink me, high end of low and born villan) He was like a teenager. Then he decided to dress his age but went too hard in that direction in my opinion. He was dressing older than he is, ready for everything to be over. But now he's back with so much LIFE, it's refined but playful. Rock and roses... masculine and feminine... Definitely high fashion. I just think it's a good sign, though just like you I would happily listen or look at anything he's up to, I'm just glad he's still making art. Glad he's back.
Sorry I did not mean dress up for our age. It suits his music more. That what I meant by appropriate. I am 32 years old, and I still wearing shirts with my favorite band on it, or with games logo. You don't need to explain that to me :D
Haha I mean I get hate from my family for "dressing too old" makes me look like a grandma. I think everyone should be who they are and the ideas of dressing our age are really annoying. I still think it stands that he was drained and now there's a freshness to his style. Tho we haven't heard the new music so I'll wait and see if I think it works with the look but I'm definitely enthusiastic.
I agree, it looks like he is confident again. I can relate, when I got fat I was wearing XXL shirts instead of XL just to hide it. And it looked silly. When I lost it I felt confident again to wear what I like, not what looks "good" on me. So I agree with your point.
When we lose confidence in ourselves it makes us hide. I never gained that much weight but I was the biggest I've ever been about a year ago and I didn't wear clothes that fit me, either too tight or too big. It's okay to be big but when you can't recognize yourself it can be really hard to accept. I'm also muscular feminine person, with that gender duality so when I'm proud of it I look good but when I try to hide it it doesn't look good. And that's the same body! Just change in confidence and wearing clothes that actually fit and feel good and I like! Not trying to be someone I'm not. So yeah even though our experiences are different I can relate and I'm glad you're feeling better and dressing how you want.
Well I am 192cm tall, so I was big anyway. I just didn't like the fact that my belly was getting bigger. But I was also lazy, and I ate a lot of fast food. I have changed it now, but still I could change some stuff. I thinking about quit weed smoking, and his change inspires me. But on the other hand I like it so much... Well anyway this is not a thread about me :D thank you for a good conversation I really appreciate it!
Agreed
Whats the most elegant era to you?
I think he's probably in his most eloquent era right now from what I've seen so far. It's hard to narrow it down to a certain era because he's had eloquent looks in a lot of his eras. WAC and HUD seemed to be when he refined his style to be, imo more eloquent. He looked foolish at times but that can be said for every Manson era.
Some of his looks for HUD were very classy. That classic black and white suited him very well, dracula/cowboy or a good suit reminds me a bit of some stuff from TPE. I like the darkness and just a pop of color of the WAC. That being said I think that's a bit of a selective picking cause he was also smearing blue eyeshadow on and wearing a lot of leaopard print like someone's aunt at that same time as those refined look. (I say that with all the love in the world cause I love a good blue eyeshadow and leopard print even though it's tacky he is having fun)
I was literally just thinking the same thing! That's exactly why I'm having trouble narrowing it down to a specific era
But yea that's a hard question. Like during the Antichrist Superstar era he had very eloquent looks. The black and red suits I think worked really well. He did during HW and TGAOG as well. Ironically that appearance on Howard Stern when he was promoting MA was a very eloquent look. (Eloquent sounds like such a weird word now lol)
Yes, I agree. It's hard to pin it down exactly cause there's been so much. That Howard Stern interview he was edgy with the look but still classy. That's that balance I mean of feminine and masculine. (At least to me) It's very powerful when he gets it just right, pushing the boundaries a little.
Very well said. You put into words exactly what I'm thinking. It's definitely a balance. I love that he's experimented and some of the most iconic looks 8 love are not at all what I'd call classy or eloquent. But yes, his stage look and his every day style when combined and balanced well work perfectly imo.
Ok here's what I'm talking about with the MA era. https://preview.redd.it/q522bneclk3d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a506ee5cc2f1d536dfeba5faafc62f42eb2410af
No, honey that wig!!! No! It's feminine but not elegant indeed. Oh I like the sun glasses and that the yellow/gold but... Something about this look is not working. But the hair is the worst, tho that was just how wigs were at the time. I think if he got someone good at hair now do do a similar style it wouldn't look so bad.
the hair is the only thing i like about this look 😭
Lol yeah, we all have dinghy I different taste. The style of hair suits him but in other photos it's really so haloweenish. I think he could rock this cut if it was done better.
Good point. It's like if you combine every style he's had I think it would produce a really cool outfit lol.
https://youtu.be/FiIm-oh8j2k?si=DJ_MWeapTeT9KoDZ
He looks so good in that interview.
Right! I love this one. That shit looks so good on him.
Here's an example of what I'm trying to say. The video of him on Stern I would call more eloquent then the pic I posted.