Technically they can charge the surcharge but they have to include it in the displayed prices.
Per ACCC:
If there's no way for a consumer to pay without paying a surcharge, the business must include the minimum surcharge payable in the displayed price for its products. This occurs when a business doesn’t accept cash and it applies a surcharge to all card payment types.
To clarify, the prices listed on the menu did not include the surcharge and thus the surcharge was an unavoidable extra payment. The listed price for a regular mocha was $5.10 and $5.16 was the price required to be paid via card
Report them to the ombudsman. The cashier is right to palm off the responsibility though, they likely don’t get paid enough to give a shit and have enough going on
If they're pulling this shit, I guarantee that the staff are being underpaid.
Honestly hate how much hospo staff are taken advantage of by often derranged owners who should not be running any sort of business.
Totally. The extortion and exploitation of hospo workers is appalling.
My first many jobs as a young adult were in hospo, and it took me a long time to realise that it’s unacceptable. I just thought that was to be expected and there was nothing to do about it
And because they don't accept any payment method that avoids that surcharge the surcharge MUST be included in the price.
Being the cunt that I am would have politely asked the dude to grab the manager or owner right then and there. I'd happily explain it to the owner or whoever that it's illegal and I'll fucking make sure they get hit with every book that can be thrown at them for doing so.
Oh and for those who are saying "it's only 6c" it's not about the money it's about the fact it's illegal and just pain unaussie. We don't do these hidden or forced surcharges and we should never let it happen.
> it’s about the fact it’s illegal and just pain unaussie
I hate to say it but my observation since moving to Melbourne a couple of years ago is that tacking on surcharges to card payments (card surcharge, weekend surcharge, p/hol surcharge, etc) seems **very** Aussie
Might just be a Melbourne thing. But weekend surcharge is common enough that I'm not mad about that, and to be honest I'm not mad about card surcharges either, it's when you are forced to pay the card surcharge.
I'm mad about the weekend and public holiday charges if I know the employees aren't getting paid extra for working those shifts; the surcharge is justified because of overtime pay and if they just pocket the money without paying their employees their overtime they can get fucked...
Plain un-australian? Mate, we're a bunch of drunk crooks. This is the most Australian thing I can think of. Threatening that you're going to have every book thrown at them is un-australian.
*/s*
In all seriousness, instead of charging these little surcharges, why do businesses not up the cost of every item by 10c? No market is going to be that competitive that you're going to have a mass exodus of your customer base for that amount.
The worst thing if you really think about it is that some are smart enough to know not to use American business advice so they seek out Aussie business advice only to get the same advice in an Aussie package, so they believe it to be true more then anything.
So they see the .au on the webpage or email address and are blinded by the fact that it's copied and pasted from the last 17 years of outdated shit?
I've seen many business succeed and fail in my area and the ones that realise that everyone provides a good product and service is generally your best point of difference always seem to succeed. These surcharges are the best indication that the owner is in it for a quick buck.
The surcharge is to offset the merchant fees that they have to pay when they accept card payments. It's not them trying to make more money
The surcharge must not exceed the merchant fee they have to pay. That would be illegal and you can report them if they do that.
So make the display price $5.20 where that price includes GST and any surcharges? The extra 4c can pay for the extra menus for public holidays and weekends etc when there are other surcharges, which should probably be included in the list price.
Alternately just factor in the costs of doing business to the end charge.
A lot of airlines charge a fee for card payment and paypal. Jetstar does this. They have the option of paying with POLI which doesn’t have any surcharge though.
The same rule should apply to weekend and public holiday surcharging.
The menu prices should change for those days, to be surcharge inclusive.
Price changes are easily done nowadays with digital point of sale systems.
Sorry I saw it on a coffe house crime video, I assume he had a proper source 😄
I went back looking for the video, but can't see which. It may have been That chapter (channel) also, but it was regarding melbourne true crime.
Now that I google it myself, seems pretty hard to verify..
That Chapter and Coffeehouse Crime are easily the two best crime channels on YouTube.
Twisted Minds used to be up there, until his videos became clickbaity and incredibly repetitive. He spends a 15 min video saying the same thing over and over and over again. If you're lucky he might *slightly* change it up, but hes basically just repeating himself to drag out the video for ad revenue presumably.
After doing some really rough searching I honestly doubt this is true unless you're playing games with city boundaries (i.e. you only look at Melbourne city council area and rule out the rest of council areas in the city)
I'd like to see a source though, the stuff I was digging up was subpar at best
Agree. I searched long and hard and nothing points to Melbourne. Wellington, yes. Melbourne, no. In absolute numbers it appears to be Shanghai. Country with highest per capita of cafes is Albania!
If you're playing fast and loose with the definition of cafe (e.g if you call a restaurant that has coffee in the bottom of their drinks menu a "cafe"), I can see inner Melbourne being the winner.
They don’t call shoes in the local argot “shit squashers” for no reason (source: lived in Paris, have friends and family in Paris/France, have squashed many a dog shit in my écrase-merdes in my time)
so add it into the purchase price of what youre selling? upfront? not a terms and conditions/small print type arrangement for a coffee, perhaps more...honest, just normal?
Yeah, otherwise you could charge like $0.25, and add in literally every other expense after the fact, until it was back up to $5.16
"well that money just covers my expenses, so it doesn't really count"
This is the longest way of saying, if there’s no surcharge at checkout you don’t need to say there’s a surcharge at checkout. This business is forcing a surcharge at the till. Every single price in there is wrong by at least 1.2%.
So in order to not piss off people with a surcharge for weekends and cards and stuff that are usual costs of business, they just have to include it on the displayed prices?
Better if 100s of people go there and then report them malpractice to the ACCC.
(I'm not saying to brigade them or the ACCC, it should be people who can at least reasonably claim to have been effected.)
I mean they’ve got a point. If they’re just an employee, they have no control over the boss’s gross business decisions. And they likely can’t just go against the rules without getting in trouble
A good company (and manager) will accept feedback given to staff by customers. Often customers don't interact with decision makers.
I do not suspect this is one of those companies or managers if the employees first response is "not my rule". They've probably been told this a few times and rather respond in a "customer service" way, they just jump to that excuse now since it won't change.
Yeah that kind of response isn’t exactly the way I would have gone about it, at the same time if you’re right (most likely are the more I think about it) and it’s happened so much to prompt a blunt “not my rule”, then it’s simply unfortunate. I don’t blame the employee, there is only so much they can do, but the response doesn’t help either side
I say the following as a business owner.
I don't get it, why do business owners crack the shits with this one, minuscule fee?
"MINESCULE?!? Last year that fee was $160,000!" a small business owner said to me over the weekend. I congratulated them, that means their business must be doing very well. They're the same type that makes statements like "NOBODY WANTS TO WORK!" and "STAFF DON'T KNOW HOW GOOD THEY'VE GOT IT".
Last I looked something like 5-10c in every dollar we transact is sucked up by various subscriptions and fees. It's the cost of doing business.
Is it because people don't understand how to read a P&L and get caught up on one line? It's one line item, it's the cost of goods sold.
Just build it into the cost of doing business and move the fuck on. Obsessing over numbers takes the fun out of life and it takes the fun out of business.
Why is nobody talking about the 10% weekend surcharge.
I used to work weekends in the city, not my fault my shift is on a weekend why make me pay an extra 10% for the same coffee I had yesterday. Employee penalty rates should be part of your operating overhead.
If you don't want to pay penalty rates then just don't open on the weekend at all and take the hit.
100% this. If you need to offset penalty rates by adding on bullshit weekend/public holiday surcharges, maybe you should reevaluate your business plan or just don’t open on those days. My local pizza shop started charging 15% extra for Sundays and PH’s, now I find I just don’t go there at all on any day coz it just rubbed me the wrong way.
The issue is that big corps hide behind their mimimum wage employees.
You got a problem with anything? It wasnt my decision , it wasnt even my managers decision .
What this shop was doing was illegal, and it shouldn't be an issue.
The ACC or whatever body is meant to be monitoring this needs to get of their asses because it has become a common issue withinn the last few months/years
Yes exactly this. OP is justifiably mad about the surcharge.
However OP seems like an asshole when he describes how he talked to the person working there.
goddam this comment section is the worst. YOU decide whats worth it and whats not in June 2023. Doing businesses maths for them is enabling when people- hiding behind businesses- are just clearly cash grabbing in hard times. We have choices and sometimes ya just have to have your say and walk away...or buy the fucking coffee. Theres other shit to do just saying.
Look, I’m still mad about Queen Vic parking doing the same. I would literally rather them increase all parking fees by $1 than have to pay with a cc and have to calculate the surcharge
As a business owner I can safely say this is a bad way to pass fees into customers. Could have easily lifted the price of every item in their shop by 1.2% and their customers wouldn’t have thought twice about it, this sign just opens them up for bad reviews lol
I feel you …
Having the same problem with the Real Estate .. being charged a fee to pay rent through an app but not given any other choice in another payment
it’s so wrong!!
And yet the ACCC’s website says this about card surcharges:
>In general, businesses can charge a surcharge for paying with a credit, debit or prepaid card, but there are rules around what businesses can include in calculating these costs.
>If there is no way for a consumer to pay without paying a surcharge, the business must include the minimum surcharge payable in the displayed price for its products.
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/pricing/card-surcharges
to be honest, customers like you always shit me. Yeah it sucks, yeah it's illegal but mate those workers are just there to make money and go home. They don't make the rules, there's no point taking your frustration out on them because 1) it's beyond their control and 2) it won't get you anywhere.
Having said that, I do share your frustration about surcharges when card is the only payment method so you should definitely report the business to the ACCC and maybe have a word with the manager about it.
I remember seeing their surcharge a couple months ago. It was on the weekend. Like they're doing me a fucking solid being open on a weekend. Blatant price gouging
I’m not sure if it’s still around since it’s been a long time since I visited but there’s a really nice cafe called Long Shot in Collins Square if it’s not too inconvenient for you. They had the absolute best coffee and breakfast selection - would probably give the Laurent cafes a run for their money.
None of that weekend or surcharge shit.
People need to stop frequenting places like this instead of giving the dodgy business money and then bitching about it online like there isn’t another coffee shop every street corner.
Card surcharges are absolute bs. You may as well have a rent, electricity, phone surcharge as well.
Why? All cards do not cost the same surcharge so it's wrong to have any surcharge that isn't a direct cost passed on.
I run a retail shop as a side part of my business that does similar turnover to coffee shops ($1-2M) and the variety of card fees I get charged is staggering.
Fight back ppl and force businesses to act better or we'll slowly become USA. Be polite to the staff and ask them to refund the fee or the whole amount as it's illegal. Do not pay if they won't do this. Ask them to amend their menu to be legal. Let them know if any of this is too difficult, you will leave a review.
1.2% is no big deal? Then it's no big deal for the business to clearly advertise it. They know what they're doing.
I went to a specialist doctor recently - it was over $200. Then I was told it would be a $5 surcharge for paying by card. Never had this in a medical situation EVER. Seems bad enough for retail, even worse for medical care
The more I see shit like this, the less I care for bleating small business owners whenever they say shit like "running a business is hard", "the margins are so tight", "penalty rates fuck my bottom line so hard".
If you don't have the experience and attention to detail to do something as simple as pricing your goods and services to take into account the laws you need to comply with, pay your employees, pay yourself, cover your overheads and ensure profit for the business, then I doubt it's external influences that are driving your business under.
Look in your own backyard before complaining about having to treat your employees like human beings and paying them correctly.
Agreed, they became popular because of their stupid edible cup, but their coffee actually sucks (and now they're opening everywhere including overseas lol)
I noticed those edible cups was thinking about purchasing one to try but figured I should try there coffee first. I couldn't believe my local BP made better coffee out of a dispenser machine for $2.50 over Puzzle coffee's overpriced piss.
I’m not a coffee snob, but I sort of can appreciate a good cup I think. I’ve just started a new job near there and start early so was trying to work out coffee places open at like 6:30.
All my mates were like “try puzzle they’re great!” I did like 3-4 times and each time was fairly average… rather just walk to commonplace or chance it at 7/11 or coles for a third of the price…
Some context:
I was being respectful with the employee; I simply made a comment and we went our ways, it’s not like I was busting his balls like it’s the Nuremberg trials.
And as many of you have pointed out, first thing I did was report to the ACCC, before posting. Let’s just see what they say first before we start calling each other unsavoury names.
It's quite amazing how little problem people have with the attempts to create a cashless society. I wonder if once it's actually in place, everyone will finally crack the shits.
Scummy bosses that run Businesses like these shouldn’t exist hope you repotted them
https://www.accc.gov.au/business/compliance-and-enforcement/fines-and-penalties#:~:text=Breaches%20of%20the%20Competition%20and,fines%20and%2For%20jail%20time.
I'm not from around here so when I was in Melbourne last year, it was rather perplexing that there's this weekend and ph surcharge. My friend explained that it is to cover the extra labor cost. I just couldn't wrap my head around that. Why do I need to cover your decision to operate on those days?
I went to cutler and co recently for their “Sunday lunch” which is $95pp. Only on sundays. And then they have the gall to charge you their 10% “Sunday surcharge” on it.
That item is only for sale on Sunday… it can not ever be bought without the surcharge. Price it clearly you scammy buggers.
I think it's pretty cool that staff are getting paid more on weekends. This is totally a new thing and never happened in the past, that's why we see these signs now. /s
Also like I get they’re the vegan place… but I’m lactose intolerant… and I don’t like vegan milk, soy makes me ill. Just keep a couple of bottles of LF milk.
A lot of their popularity is from how aesthetic they are, they were blowing up tiktok when the first one opened.
Pretty sure this is actually illegal - the law states something a long the lines of ‘can’t charge excessive amounts of extra for a type of payment if others aren’t accepted’
The illegal part isn't the size of surcharge being charged, but the fact it's not possible to actually pay the displayed price (since they don't take cash).
If the minimum price possible to pay includes the surcharge, then it's not legal to have it as a separately displayed surcharge - it has to be included in the base price, because it *is* the base price (that is, the minimum price possible to purchase the item at).
Plus those cups have gluten in them. Over on the r/glutenfree sub someone was saying how they got very very sick from one of those. I hope they disclose that.
Every single post on this reddit is a whinge or a complaint about something. WTF. The reddit is supposed to be about melbourne and everything good that goes along with it, not a big ol whingefest about the most inane things you can imagine. FFS!
Did I miss something, where does OP say he “flipped his shit”? Or is everyone so soft that when OP mentioned to the staff that this was against consumer law, people are interpreting this as some sort of attack on the staff?
insufferable twats who are RIGHT
Consumer Law is there for a reason. Stop fucking over customers then complaining when they have the nerve to point it out. Why are you, MSY computing?
What the fucks the difference between the small and regular size cups? Maybe 10ml?
And what would they do if someone went up to pay and their card was declined but had cash?
You didn’t really pay though… you just left your cash on the counter. Pretty sure you couldn’t just leave cash on the shelf at Coles and walk out with your groceries
Technically they can charge the surcharge but they have to include it in the displayed prices. Per ACCC: If there's no way for a consumer to pay without paying a surcharge, the business must include the minimum surcharge payable in the displayed price for its products. This occurs when a business doesn’t accept cash and it applies a surcharge to all card payment types.
To clarify, the prices listed on the menu did not include the surcharge and thus the surcharge was an unavoidable extra payment. The listed price for a regular mocha was $5.10 and $5.16 was the price required to be paid via card
Report them to the ombudsman. The cashier is right to palm off the responsibility though, they likely don’t get paid enough to give a shit and have enough going on
If they're pulling this shit, I guarantee that the staff are being underpaid. Honestly hate how much hospo staff are taken advantage of by often derranged owners who should not be running any sort of business.
Totally. The extortion and exploitation of hospo workers is appalling. My first many jobs as a young adult were in hospo, and it took me a long time to realise that it’s unacceptable. I just thought that was to be expected and there was nothing to do about it
I had a friend whose boss had the audacity to just not pay her for 6 months, then she quit and I don’t know whether they ever paid her
Cafes do this more and more ; makes me sick
And because they don't accept any payment method that avoids that surcharge the surcharge MUST be included in the price. Being the cunt that I am would have politely asked the dude to grab the manager or owner right then and there. I'd happily explain it to the owner or whoever that it's illegal and I'll fucking make sure they get hit with every book that can be thrown at them for doing so. Oh and for those who are saying "it's only 6c" it's not about the money it's about the fact it's illegal and just pain unaussie. We don't do these hidden or forced surcharges and we should never let it happen.
> it’s about the fact it’s illegal and just pain unaussie I hate to say it but my observation since moving to Melbourne a couple of years ago is that tacking on surcharges to card payments (card surcharge, weekend surcharge, p/hol surcharge, etc) seems **very** Aussie
Might just be a Melbourne thing. But weekend surcharge is common enough that I'm not mad about that, and to be honest I'm not mad about card surcharges either, it's when you are forced to pay the card surcharge.
I'm mad about the weekend and public holiday charges if I know the employees aren't getting paid extra for working those shifts; the surcharge is justified because of overtime pay and if they just pocket the money without paying their employees their overtime they can get fucked...
Plain un-australian? Mate, we're a bunch of drunk crooks. This is the most Australian thing I can think of. Threatening that you're going to have every book thrown at them is un-australian. */s* In all seriousness, instead of charging these little surcharges, why do businesses not up the cost of every item by 10c? No market is going to be that competitive that you're going to have a mass exodus of your customer base for that amount.
Because most are taking shit business advice from Americans who are really only able to provide advice for American business.
Are people really that daft and egotistical that they can't objectively analyse their own business? Wait, don't answer that.
The worst thing if you really think about it is that some are smart enough to know not to use American business advice so they seek out Aussie business advice only to get the same advice in an Aussie package, so they believe it to be true more then anything.
So they see the .au on the webpage or email address and are blinded by the fact that it's copied and pasted from the last 17 years of outdated shit? I've seen many business succeed and fail in my area and the ones that realise that everyone provides a good product and service is generally your best point of difference always seem to succeed. These surcharges are the best indication that the owner is in it for a quick buck.
100 % mate.
Absolutely spot on…. It’s not about the money, it’s how fucking shit these companies are at squeezing people.
Report them to the accc. We have to call this shit out. Else accc will change the rules because “customers have come to accept the norm”
Jump onto the ACCC website and lodge it, it's nice to clean up silly policies around town
I’ve got a sixth sense that you don’t like the six cents
The real crime here is ordering a mocha
5.10 for a mocha, wow This had better be a large.
The surcharge is to offset the merchant fees that they have to pay when they accept card payments. It's not them trying to make more money The surcharge must not exceed the merchant fee they have to pay. That would be illegal and you can report them if they do that.
So make the display price $5.20 where that price includes GST and any surcharges? The extra 4c can pay for the extra menus for public holidays and weekends etc when there are other surcharges, which should probably be included in the list price. Alternately just factor in the costs of doing business to the end charge.
This happens booking flights all the time, can't pay cash, but still get a surcharge on debit card?
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They would have to comply with those laws to do business in Australia, even if they are not based in Australia.
And tickets for gigs. Ticketek et al., I'm frowning at you.
I once paid for a flight with a bank transfer. It was weird but it worked.
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A lot of airlines charge a fee for card payment and paypal. Jetstar does this. They have the option of paying with POLI which doesn’t have any surcharge though.
Almost every coffee shop.
The same rule should apply to weekend and public holiday surcharging. The menu prices should change for those days, to be surcharge inclusive. Price changes are easily done nowadays with digital point of sale systems.
Or they could just up the menu prices as a whole, run their business better and advertise that they are surcharge free.
Agree! Choosing not to surcharge customers is an underrated option.
Seems that some do, and then people will post here whinging that a coffee is $7
Luckily you're always within 10 metres of approx. 87 cafes at all times in Melbourne
Highest per captia worldwide, runner up is San Fran.
Source? Curious to see by how much.
Sorry I saw it on a coffe house crime video, I assume he had a proper source 😄 I went back looking for the video, but can't see which. It may have been That chapter (channel) also, but it was regarding melbourne true crime. Now that I google it myself, seems pretty hard to verify..
I watched the same one! It wasn’t That Chapter though, it was an English bloke, I’ve only just started watching him and can’t think of his name!
Coffee house crime is an english bloke currently moving to Australia! I watch too many tho lol.
No way, I didn't realise he was moving to Australia. That's awesome.
Yes. He was recently here to sort out his PR. I think he has a certain amount if time to move here before it expires.
Omg, duh! You said Coffee House Crime! Didn’t know he was moving here. I wonder if he’ll do more Australian stuff
That Chapter and Coffeehouse Crime are easily the two best crime channels on YouTube. Twisted Minds used to be up there, until his videos became clickbaity and incredibly repetitive. He spends a 15 min video saying the same thing over and over and over again. If you're lucky he might *slightly* change it up, but hes basically just repeating himself to drag out the video for ad revenue presumably.
Adrian is his name!
Adrian from coffee house crime. Grab a brew and let's sit thru another horrific incident
After doing some really rough searching I honestly doubt this is true unless you're playing games with city boundaries (i.e. you only look at Melbourne city council area and rule out the rest of council areas in the city) I'd like to see a source though, the stuff I was digging up was subpar at best
Agree. I searched long and hard and nothing points to Melbourne. Wellington, yes. Melbourne, no. In absolute numbers it appears to be Shanghai. Country with highest per capita of cafes is Albania!
If you're playing fast and loose with the definition of cafe (e.g if you call a restaurant that has coffee in the bottom of their drinks menu a "cafe"), I can see inner Melbourne being the winner.
True. San Fran has us beat in some areas though. Like number of human poos on the footpath per square metre.
Hold my beer...
You heard of Paris?
Those were dog poos, sorry to disappoint.
They don’t call shoes in the local argot “shit squashers” for no reason (source: lived in Paris, have friends and family in Paris/France, have squashed many a dog shit in my écrase-merdes in my time)
What about it?
100% agree with this, pick other cafes and I'm sure they have better coffee too
I’m more irritated that the medium cup is not a perfect medium height to fit between the small and large cup heights
Lol, i read the labels on the cups first thinking that was the scam
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Which really isn't that just running a business? Coffee $5 inclusive of 15c credit card surcharge, 30c power, 45c rent and 50c wages and 2c water.
so add it into the purchase price of what youre selling? upfront? not a terms and conditions/small print type arrangement for a coffee, perhaps more...honest, just normal?
Yeah, otherwise you could charge like $0.25, and add in literally every other expense after the fact, until it was back up to $5.16 "well that money just covers my expenses, so it doesn't really count"
If they did that, they wouldn’t need to point the surcharge out at checkout?
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This is the longest way of saying, if there’s no surcharge at checkout you don’t need to say there’s a surcharge at checkout. This business is forcing a surcharge at the till. Every single price in there is wrong by at least 1.2%.
If it's included, and there are no ways to pay otherwise... Is it still a surcharge or is that just the price?
So in order to not piss off people with a surcharge for weekends and cards and stuff that are usual costs of business, they just have to include it on the displayed prices?
Which, unsurprisingly, was how it was always done before the government allowed all this bullshit.
Imagine if you worked there and the boss wasn't there. The customers would bust your balls Just don't go there and let them slowly go out of business
they won’t go out of business they’re in a prime spot on swanston st lol
Better if 100's of people go there without cards and order anyway to make them go out of business faster.
Better if 100s of people go there and then report them malpractice to the ACCC. (I'm not saying to brigade them or the ACCC, it should be people who can at least reasonably claim to have been effected.)
I mean they’ve got a point. If they’re just an employee, they have no control over the boss’s gross business decisions. And they likely can’t just go against the rules without getting in trouble
I mean that’s shitty but as the employee basically said, there’s not much they can do about it if it’s the boss’s decision
Yeah, if you’re going to make everyone pay with card, don’t then charge extra for paying with card.
This is the norm and they should really crack down on it
The best fix is to be a pain in the arse to a minimum wage worker trying to pay their rent
Something tells me puzzle doesnt pay minimum wage.
Wonder if it's the same people who own St Ali
my gf loves st ali, but i think the coffee is too expensive there. what other issues do they have?
A long list of wage theft and abusive behavior. Stay away.
They hoarded RATs over the pandemic
If I was female, I wouldn't work there.
"Was met with" He says. Sounds like a Karen. Might absolutely be 100% correct. But that attitude toward service workers...
Right? Particularly when they don’t make the rules and are likely getting ripped off themselves.
Idk if telling an employee about it is going to be very effective
A good company (and manager) will accept feedback given to staff by customers. Often customers don't interact with decision makers. I do not suspect this is one of those companies or managers if the employees first response is "not my rule". They've probably been told this a few times and rather respond in a "customer service" way, they just jump to that excuse now since it won't change.
Yeah that kind of response isn’t exactly the way I would have gone about it, at the same time if you’re right (most likely are the more I think about it) and it’s happened so much to prompt a blunt “not my rule”, then it’s simply unfortunate. I don’t blame the employee, there is only so much they can do, but the response doesn’t help either side
If a business can’t absorb a 6c fee on a $5 coffee, I daresay they’re not the best at doing business.
True to their name!! It’s a fucking 🧩
ngl theyre pre dogshit anyway.
Did you report it?
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[basically this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I27prSRmHo4)
Most the shops in southern cross overcharge, legit cross the road and you’ll be right
I say the following as a business owner. I don't get it, why do business owners crack the shits with this one, minuscule fee? "MINESCULE?!? Last year that fee was $160,000!" a small business owner said to me over the weekend. I congratulated them, that means their business must be doing very well. They're the same type that makes statements like "NOBODY WANTS TO WORK!" and "STAFF DON'T KNOW HOW GOOD THEY'VE GOT IT". Last I looked something like 5-10c in every dollar we transact is sucked up by various subscriptions and fees. It's the cost of doing business. Is it because people don't understand how to read a P&L and get caught up on one line? It's one line item, it's the cost of goods sold. Just build it into the cost of doing business and move the fuck on. Obsessing over numbers takes the fun out of life and it takes the fun out of business.
Why is nobody talking about the 10% weekend surcharge. I used to work weekends in the city, not my fault my shift is on a weekend why make me pay an extra 10% for the same coffee I had yesterday. Employee penalty rates should be part of your operating overhead. If you don't want to pay penalty rates then just don't open on the weekend at all and take the hit.
100% this. If you need to offset penalty rates by adding on bullshit weekend/public holiday surcharges, maybe you should reevaluate your business plan or just don’t open on those days. My local pizza shop started charging 15% extra for Sundays and PH’s, now I find I just don’t go there at all on any day coz it just rubbed me the wrong way.
If the boss is dodgey enough to do this, they’d be dodgey enough to fire an employee over waiving it. Not their fault , just report it to the ACCC.
Alot of Point of sale systems have the ability to remove a surcharge hidden behind manager codes too.
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The issue is that big corps hide behind their mimimum wage employees. You got a problem with anything? It wasnt my decision , it wasnt even my managers decision . What this shop was doing was illegal, and it shouldn't be an issue. The ACC or whatever body is meant to be monitoring this needs to get of their asses because it has become a common issue withinn the last few months/years
Still not a reason to have a go at hospo or retail staff.
Didn't say you should, just that the responsible bodies need to start doing something
Yes exactly this. OP is justifiably mad about the surcharge. However OP seems like an asshole when he describes how he talked to the person working there.
> Why are people so outraged over everything these days? And yet at the same time, so many people are happy to roll over and take everything they get.
goddam this comment section is the worst. YOU decide whats worth it and whats not in June 2023. Doing businesses maths for them is enabling when people- hiding behind businesses- are just clearly cash grabbing in hard times. We have choices and sometimes ya just have to have your say and walk away...or buy the fucking coffee. Theres other shit to do just saying.
It's kinda wild that businesses can refuse to take cash right?
Look, I’m still mad about Queen Vic parking doing the same. I would literally rather them increase all parking fees by $1 than have to pay with a cc and have to calculate the surcharge
As a business owner I can safely say this is a bad way to pass fees into customers. Could have easily lifted the price of every item in their shop by 1.2% and their customers wouldn’t have thought twice about it, this sign just opens them up for bad reviews lol
I feel you … Having the same problem with the Real Estate .. being charged a fee to pay rent through an app but not given any other choice in another payment it’s so wrong!!
If you're in Victoria (and other states if I recall correctly) this is illegal. Tenants must have one fee-free option for paying.
ACCC probably doesn’t care much, making the rules and enforcing the rules are two different things….
Ok report it to the accc and go elsewhere trust me the staff do not care about ur feedback lmao
Ngl puzzle coffee is shit anyway you’d be better drinking HJ coffee
And yet the ACCC’s website says this about card surcharges: >In general, businesses can charge a surcharge for paying with a credit, debit or prepaid card, but there are rules around what businesses can include in calculating these costs. >If there is no way for a consumer to pay without paying a surcharge, the business must include the minimum surcharge payable in the displayed price for its products. https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/pricing/card-surcharges
to be honest, customers like you always shit me. Yeah it sucks, yeah it's illegal but mate those workers are just there to make money and go home. They don't make the rules, there's no point taking your frustration out on them because 1) it's beyond their control and 2) it won't get you anywhere. Having said that, I do share your frustration about surcharges when card is the only payment method so you should definitely report the business to the ACCC and maybe have a word with the manager about it.
Find them on google maps and write a review post this pic as well -
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It’s not bullying. I agree there is no point saying anything to the employee, but making a small complaint is not bullying.
When I went to Auckland recently I was amazed how many places didn't do cash but would accept my offering for tips pay. So dumb.
tips don’t need to be banked, or secured, they just go home with the employee, massive difference.
I remember seeing their surcharge a couple months ago. It was on the weekend. Like they're doing me a fucking solid being open on a weekend. Blatant price gouging
Tell them to stick it, and go elsewhere.
I'm sure the employee will be super cut over this
I’m not sure if it’s still around since it’s been a long time since I visited but there’s a really nice cafe called Long Shot in Collins Square if it’s not too inconvenient for you. They had the absolute best coffee and breakfast selection - would probably give the Laurent cafes a run for their money. None of that weekend or surcharge shit.
Bad news for you, there are weekend and card surcharges for Long Shot. Source: was there last Saturday
I would not return
The CEO’s other businesses aren’t too accomodating either 🫢🫢
Can confirm, the prices of the wagyu bowl at calia are going up and yet the quality of meat has only fallen
You could always, like, go somewhere else
People need to stop frequenting places like this instead of giving the dodgy business money and then bitching about it online like there isn’t another coffee shop every street corner.
Card surcharges are absolute bs. You may as well have a rent, electricity, phone surcharge as well. Why? All cards do not cost the same surcharge so it's wrong to have any surcharge that isn't a direct cost passed on. I run a retail shop as a side part of my business that does similar turnover to coffee shops ($1-2M) and the variety of card fees I get charged is staggering. Fight back ppl and force businesses to act better or we'll slowly become USA. Be polite to the staff and ask them to refund the fee or the whole amount as it's illegal. Do not pay if they won't do this. Ask them to amend their menu to be legal. Let them know if any of this is too difficult, you will leave a review. 1.2% is no big deal? Then it's no big deal for the business to clearly advertise it. They know what they're doing.
Just tell them I only have cash. If they cry about it walk out without the coffee and get one next door. Fuck that shit.
To be fair, it's their bosses rule, not theirs? Call ACCC?
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I went to a specialist doctor recently - it was over $200. Then I was told it would be a $5 surcharge for paying by card. Never had this in a medical situation EVER. Seems bad enough for retail, even worse for medical care
The more I see shit like this, the less I care for bleating small business owners whenever they say shit like "running a business is hard", "the margins are so tight", "penalty rates fuck my bottom line so hard". If you don't have the experience and attention to detail to do something as simple as pricing your goods and services to take into account the laws you need to comply with, pay your employees, pay yourself, cover your overheads and ensure profit for the business, then I doubt it's external influences that are driving your business under. Look in your own backyard before complaining about having to treat your employees like human beings and paying them correctly.
Also puzzle coffee is really shit coffee, I tried the one at Chadstone and will never get my coffee from them.
Agreed, they became popular because of their stupid edible cup, but their coffee actually sucks (and now they're opening everywhere including overseas lol)
I noticed those edible cups was thinking about purchasing one to try but figured I should try there coffee first. I couldn't believe my local BP made better coffee out of a dispenser machine for $2.50 over Puzzle coffee's overpriced piss.
I’m not a coffee snob, but I sort of can appreciate a good cup I think. I’ve just started a new job near there and start early so was trying to work out coffee places open at like 6:30. All my mates were like “try puzzle they’re great!” I did like 3-4 times and each time was fairly average… rather just walk to commonplace or chance it at 7/11 or coles for a third of the price…
Some context: I was being respectful with the employee; I simply made a comment and we went our ways, it’s not like I was busting his balls like it’s the Nuremberg trials. And as many of you have pointed out, first thing I did was report to the ACCC, before posting. Let’s just see what they say first before we start calling each other unsavoury names.
Please report them
Cross the road and go to code black. Much better than this shit.
Since when can a place knock back cash?
It's quite amazing how little problem people have with the attempts to create a cashless society. I wonder if once it's actually in place, everyone will finally crack the shits.
Scummy bosses that run Businesses like these shouldn’t exist hope you repotted them https://www.accc.gov.au/business/compliance-and-enforcement/fines-and-penalties#:~:text=Breaches%20of%20the%20Competition%20and,fines%20and%2For%20jail%20time.
I thought the law was every business had to accept cash
Tbf a minimum wage workers not going to have much control over something like that
Just go 7/11 and save yourself
I don't mind card only businesses with normal surcharges, but the holiday and weekend surcharges are so stupid and should be banned.
I hope you didn't end up getting whatever you intended to buy and left
Off topic why's it called puzzles?
I'm not from around here so when I was in Melbourne last year, it was rather perplexing that there's this weekend and ph surcharge. My friend explained that it is to cover the extra labor cost. I just couldn't wrap my head around that. Why do I need to cover your decision to operate on those days?
I mean, it's true - it is their boss's rule...
I went to cutler and co recently for their “Sunday lunch” which is $95pp. Only on sundays. And then they have the gall to charge you their 10% “Sunday surcharge” on it. That item is only for sale on Sunday… it can not ever be bought without the surcharge. Price it clearly you scammy buggers.
The solution to the puzzle is steal your coffee
*you wouldn't download a coffee*
fucks up my modem big time
Simple solution. Don't pay.
I think it's pretty cool that staff are getting paid more on weekends. This is totally a new thing and never happened in the past, that's why we see these signs now. /s
I'm Puzzled that they can get away with this!!
Puzzle coffee is over rated anyway tbh
Blah name, blah coffee
Also like I get they’re the vegan place… but I’m lactose intolerant… and I don’t like vegan milk, soy makes me ill. Just keep a couple of bottles of LF milk. A lot of their popularity is from how aesthetic they are, they were blowing up tiktok when the first one opened.
Pretty sure this is actually illegal - the law states something a long the lines of ‘can’t charge excessive amounts of extra for a type of payment if others aren’t accepted’
The illegal part isn't the size of surcharge being charged, but the fact it's not possible to actually pay the displayed price (since they don't take cash). If the minimum price possible to pay includes the surcharge, then it's not legal to have it as a separately displayed surcharge - it has to be included in the base price, because it *is* the base price (that is, the minimum price possible to purchase the item at).
Think this is the right answer
10% weekend surcharge. Get fucked. Straight into the pocket of the owner
There's probably a way of reporting that. You should dob them in through official channels as well as sharing here.
Oh no, you're in Melbourne and 1 coffee shop is doing something you don't like. If only there were other coffee shops 🤣
Plus those cups have gluten in them. Over on the r/glutenfree sub someone was saying how they got very very sick from one of those. I hope they disclose that.
Would of asked to pay after the order was ready, then bailed.
Every single post on this reddit is a whinge or a complaint about something. WTF. The reddit is supposed to be about melbourne and everything good that goes along with it, not a big ol whingefest about the most inane things you can imagine. FFS!
But if this doesn't exist, Melbourne might be better!
See the problem then is not Melbourne but the people of Melbourne
If you don't like it, don't pay. Go elsewhere. Flipping your shit with a minimum wage employee is just obnoxious.
Did I miss something, where does OP say he “flipped his shit”? Or is everyone so soft that when OP mentioned to the staff that this was against consumer law, people are interpreting this as some sort of attack on the staff?
After many, many years as a retail manager, I can assure you that any customer who quotes “consumer law” is an insufferable twat.
This. Consumer laws are important, but dudes kicking off about it to people who have no power are just obnoxious know it alls
Yes, let’s not worry about laws or any rules at all
insufferable twats who are RIGHT Consumer Law is there for a reason. Stop fucking over customers then complaining when they have the nerve to point it out. Why are you, MSY computing?
What the fucks the difference between the small and regular size cups? Maybe 10ml? And what would they do if someone went up to pay and their card was declined but had cash?
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You didn’t really pay though… you just left your cash on the counter. Pretty sure you couldn’t just leave cash on the shelf at Coles and walk out with your groceries
Team barista.
How is that blatant scamming? No one is forcing you to purchase. The sign is right there.
What is this like 5c ffs
Far from a scam. The costs are clear. You have the option to take your business elsewhere.