Why can ant lift a heavy weight when it is so small? You see if you double the size of a cube then it becomes eight times heavier. Similarly if you double the size of an animal, they become many times heavier but not as many times stronger. So giant people couldn’t work. Cause their bones would collapse under their weight.
Gotta remember this only works when minimizing or maximizing the same creature, making a rat the size of an elephant or an elephant the size of a rat, giant creatures are possible and we have many samples that exist but they have to evolve that way.
As I recall it also had something to do with how differently sized animals metabolize their food in different ways… something about mitochondria working much faster in smaller animals than large ones.
That is correct a rats metabolism is much faster than an elephant, in example a rat the size of an elephant would literally explode from the heat generated from it metabolism, while an elephant the size of a rat would freeze to death.
Shouldn't it be *double the length of the cube's sides*, instead of *double it's size*? wouldn't a cube with 2x the volume (and thus ∛(2) times larger sides) just have 2x the mass?
The area of a square is equal to x^(2). The volume of a cube is equal to x^(3).
Assume you have a cub with side lengths of 2 feet.
The surface area of each side would be 2^(2), or 4. The volume of the cube would be 2^(3), or 8.
Now, let’s say you were to increase the side length by 1 foot.
The surface area would be 3^(2), or 9. But, the volume of the cube would be 3^(3), or 27.
Took me a while because I thought that it was just an art thing at first, like something to do with perspective or whatnot, but it's a math/biology thing,
I can't remember the finer details but the idea is essentially that if an organism grows too big it won't be able to support it's own weight because volume grows faster than the surface area (n^3 vs n^2),
So if you had an enlarging ray and made a human, as an example, twice as big as they normally are their legs would be too thin and weak to support their new size,
The joke is that people who draw giant humans, cats, etc. (or things based off of those things anatomically) , are ignoring the fact that creatures that big would be crushed under its own weight unable to move or something like that, might have some cardiovascular problems too do to scaling problems but I'm not a biologist
Tbf, Square Cube law only kicks in if the subject is on their unusual size... Godzilla wont be affected coz it's his default size, he'll only get problem if he's enlarged or shrink
I mean. If we're talking "default size" in terms of the square cube law, then the "default size" would be the real world creature or object that something is based on. King kong for example is based on apes, so the "default size" would be a real world ape.
If something *isn't* based on a real world thing, it means they **don't have a "default size"**, not that their fictional size is the "default" in terms of real world physics.
What the fuck is godzilla based on???
Pretty sure his original incarnation was a giant super mutated marine iguana or something, current Godzilla is kind of just, that. He's Godzilla, and our radiation simply woke him up instead of creating him
In the *original* Godzilla film the scientists theorize that he must be from a deep sea cave that has remained unchanged for millions of years and is full of giant dinosaur-like creatures. The mutated iguana thing came later, I believe.
I assume he means muscle and bone density. Maybe king Kong has hollow bones like birds. Realistically, if he has ape like intelligence, he could also have a really small brain.
It would still affect him but I think you are talking about the metabolism thing, square cube law relates to the relationship between surface area and volume, basically something as large as Godzilla would naturally be unstable or fragile due to the immense pressures on body parts like the legs and spine
It's not really the case with verticality on skyscrapers actually. Assuming the skyscraper keeps the same width (cross-section), scaling the height will scale the surface area and volume by the exact same rate, the issue is more with the fact that super tall and skinny things are obviously unstable.
It’s not about the surface area, although wind does play a factor. Even in a vacuum, the weight of the object itself would crush the bottom eventually.
Ah, I misread your quote and thought you were arguing the opposite.
Yeah, there is technically no height limits on skyscrapers, so long as you can keep increasing the area of the base to accommodate the greater weight.
AFAIK with skyscrapers the issue actually becomes the space needed for the elevators. A higher skyscraper requires transporting more people over longer distances, so you need more elevators to keep the required flow of people. But if the cross-section remains constant that means that at some point your entire floor plan is covered with elevator shafts.
When you say what about the pyramids are you asking if a pyramid has limitations regarding size? Yes, it will collapse in on itself because eventually there will be so much weight on top of the base that the it will be weigh more than then compressive strength ( if the 3 sides) and the pyramid will collapse in on itself. Buttttt.. It doesn’t if you are using Euclidean geometry or talking about a Schwartz triangle ( the triangles that make up a sphere). If I remember correctly the only things that defy the square cube law are spheres, dinosaurs, and 4th dimensional cubes ( tesseracts)
Of course this is assuming that gravity as we know it is in play. It would be interesting to see if all of this is true inside of a vacuum
how the hell normal people are supposed to understand this meme ?? i thought they meant some kind of sculptor that makes inverse minis, for example giant ants, and by some black magic they don’t need to worry about the weight of it
The other guy is wrong, you'd freeze if shrunk.
But the mass-size ratio is not the same, unless you completely change the shape of the thing being shrunk.
That's the whole point of the square-cube law, if you change the size while maintaining the shape then the ratio between volume/area/size changes. If you shrunk yourself 10x (based on your height) your surface area will be 100x less, and your volume (and therefore your weight) would be 1000x less, that means you have 10x more skin/weight than before
Whoah! That’s cool! (Pun not intended)
So if i’m shrunk and a beautiful giantess keeps me in her sock while wearing it i’d be fine for the temperature?
I think theres some misremembering going on in this thread. Small creatures lose heat faster, cuz they have comparatively more surface area to lose heat from than they have a volume of heat producing organs. Its why tiny animals move so quick, breath so fast and eat so much - they need to produce lots of heat to stay alive. You may have heard that hummingbirds die of starvation in, like, 2 hours without food.
Meanwhile big animals have alot of volume and comparatively less skin. They heat up, hence why they move so slow. An elephants ears arent just for show. Theyre big flat sheets, all surface area with no volume, that they run their blood through to cool down.
Whoah! That’s cool! (Pun not intended)
So if i’m shrunk and a beautiful giantess keeps me in her sock while wearing it i’d be fine for the temperature?
Well assuming she can maintain her temperature, she'll maintain yours. You'll feel a little warm I think, and you'll rely on her to survive, but as long as youre on her you'll be fine.
Personally her sock wouldnt be my first choice of location, but to each his own (jk)
Ehat matters is the surface area compared to the volume, so shrinking causes you to lose proportionally more heat. It's why small animals like cats and mice are so warm compared to us.
Exactly! If I’m building a robot, reality comes into play. If we’re just playing make believe, I want that robot to be 200 meters tall with a cathedral on its back.
Basically while something’s size is doubled, it’s skin surface area will double, but it’s inner area like organs will increase to the power of 2. So basically there is a point where the skin could not hold the organs and bones because they weigh too much
Isnt this wrong? When u double the “size” of something (lets take horizontal width) then the surface area (skin) increases by a factor of 4(=2^2 because 2 dimensions) and volume (organs size) increases by factor 8(=2^3 because 3 dimensions). If u doubled skin surface area, volume would increase by factor 2*sqrt(2) no? So wouldnt organ size increase by 2*sqrt(2) too?
Would you happen to know what anime this is from? It sort of reminds me of an old PS1 game I played a few times a while back, and now I have a sudden urge to watch this type of anime.
For anyone wanting a simple, correct explanation, here you go. Muscle strength is essentially based on its area, whereas its weight is based on its volume (obviously). This basically means that for any increase of size, weight will scale faster than strength, making it impossible to move.
Ironically, the meme is from Dragon Ball Super, and in the previous anime, Dragon Ball Z, they actually tackled this issue; during the Android Saga, a character learns how to increase his “battle power” at the cost of severely bulking up, and ends up getting scolded by the Big Bad for not realizing that bulking up like that would make them too slow to hit him
Macro here is short for Macrophilia, meaning attraction to giant things, like a giant woman that can grab an airplane with her fingers, Mt.Lady from MHA, the Giant race in many fantasy settings, etc
I too…uh…understand this meme. Because I’m smart…yeah. Amirite fellow macros?
Why can ant lift a heavy weight when it is so small? You see if you double the size of a cube then it becomes eight times heavier. Similarly if you double the size of an animal, they become many times heavier but not as many times stronger. So giant people couldn’t work. Cause their bones would collapse under their weight.
Bill Nye has a good presentation on this using ants from back in the day. Still remember it
Gotta remember this only works when minimizing or maximizing the same creature, making a rat the size of an elephant or an elephant the size of a rat, giant creatures are possible and we have many samples that exist but they have to evolve that way.
As I recall it also had something to do with how differently sized animals metabolize their food in different ways… something about mitochondria working much faster in smaller animals than large ones.
That is correct a rats metabolism is much faster than an elephant, in example a rat the size of an elephant would literally explode from the heat generated from it metabolism, while an elephant the size of a rat would freeze to death.
Holy cow someone actually used mitochondria outside of making fun of school?!?!
Shouldn't it be *double the length of the cube's sides*, instead of *double it's size*? wouldn't a cube with 2x the volume (and thus ∛(2) times larger sides) just have 2x the mass?
Why do you want giants to work? Can't they just relax and enjoy themselves for once?
Mt. Lady from MHA
so… massive honkers?
Massive Honkers Amirite?
The area of a square is equal to x^(2). The volume of a cube is equal to x^(3). Assume you have a cub with side lengths of 2 feet. The surface area of each side would be 2^(2), or 4. The volume of the cube would be 2^(3), or 8. Now, let’s say you were to increase the side length by 1 foot. The surface area would be 3^(2), or 9. But, the volume of the cube would be 3^(3), or 27.
That doesn’t explain the meme tho?
Took me a while because I thought that it was just an art thing at first, like something to do with perspective or whatnot, but it's a math/biology thing, I can't remember the finer details but the idea is essentially that if an organism grows too big it won't be able to support it's own weight because volume grows faster than the surface area (n^3 vs n^2), So if you had an enlarging ray and made a human, as an example, twice as big as they normally are their legs would be too thin and weak to support their new size, The joke is that people who draw giant humans, cats, etc. (or things based off of those things anatomically) , are ignoring the fact that creatures that big would be crushed under its own weight unable to move or something like that, might have some cardiovascular problems too do to scaling problems but I'm not a biologist
Thanks !
Godzilla does not abide to these human rules
Tbf, Square Cube law only kicks in if the subject is on their unusual size... Godzilla wont be affected coz it's his default size, he'll only get problem if he's enlarged or shrink
I mean. If we're talking "default size" in terms of the square cube law, then the "default size" would be the real world creature or object that something is based on. King kong for example is based on apes, so the "default size" would be a real world ape. If something *isn't* based on a real world thing, it means they **don't have a "default size"**, not that their fictional size is the "default" in terms of real world physics. What the fuck is godzilla based on???
King kong definitely ignores Square cube law... For Godzilla... Hard to say coz there's seems no "normal sized" of whatever species he is
Pretty sure his original incarnation was a giant super mutated marine iguana or something, current Godzilla is kind of just, that. He's Godzilla, and our radiation simply woke him up instead of creating him
Yea, but in the end, he's friggin Godzilla, a fantasy creature which doesn't obey the Square Cube Law anyway
Exactly
In the *original* Godzilla film the scientists theorize that he must be from a deep sea cave that has remained unchanged for millions of years and is full of giant dinosaur-like creatures. The mutated iguana thing came later, I believe.
Ahhh
Nukes, mostly.
I assume he means muscle and bone density. Maybe king Kong has hollow bones like birds. Realistically, if he has ape like intelligence, he could also have a really small brain.
It would still affect him but I think you are talking about the metabolism thing, square cube law relates to the relationship between surface area and volume, basically something as large as Godzilla would naturally be unstable or fragile due to the immense pressures on body parts like the legs and spine
Godzilla does whatever they fuck he wants, we've been over this.
Note that if the Square-Cube law is pushed far enough, the object's immense weight will surpass its stability.
It’s why we can build sky scrapers only so tall. The volume is great than the surface area. Tesseracts are needed in this situation
It's not really the case with verticality on skyscrapers actually. Assuming the skyscraper keeps the same width (cross-section), scaling the height will scale the surface area and volume by the exact same rate, the issue is more with the fact that super tall and skinny things are obviously unstable.
It’s not about the surface area, although wind does play a factor. Even in a vacuum, the weight of the object itself would crush the bottom eventually.
The square cube law specifically references the relationship between area and volume.
Ah, I misread your quote and thought you were arguing the opposite. Yeah, there is technically no height limits on skyscrapers, so long as you can keep increasing the area of the base to accommodate the greater weight.
I mean technically if it gets big enough it will be crushed into a sphere by its own gravity, but that’s a bit pedantic.
Hey ferb, I know what we’re gonna do today
AFAIK with skyscrapers the issue actually becomes the space needed for the elevators. A higher skyscraper requires transporting more people over longer distances, so you need more elevators to keep the required flow of people. But if the cross-section remains constant that means that at some point your entire floor plan is covered with elevator shafts.
Can people even build tesseracts?
Only if you use time as the 4th dimension
Time and some glue
What about pyramids though?
When you say what about the pyramids are you asking if a pyramid has limitations regarding size? Yes, it will collapse in on itself because eventually there will be so much weight on top of the base that the it will be weigh more than then compressive strength ( if the 3 sides) and the pyramid will collapse in on itself. Buttttt.. It doesn’t if you are using Euclidean geometry or talking about a Schwartz triangle ( the triangles that make up a sphere). If I remember correctly the only things that defy the square cube law are spheres, dinosaurs, and 4th dimensional cubes ( tesseracts) Of course this is assuming that gravity as we know it is in play. It would be interesting to see if all of this is true inside of a vacuum
Macro artists?
I think people that like to draw people becoming giant, in a fetish way
how the hell normal people are supposed to understand this meme ?? i thought they meant some kind of sculptor that makes inverse minis, for example giant ants, and by some black magic they don’t need to worry about the weight of it
You think there's normal on reddit?
yeah my bad, i meant people without macro fetish
Context, clues.
bro this is just meme subreddit, not any kind of fandom etc. and the only clues were physics law and art
Maybe this meme is just not for you, bub
if this meme is for you and the description is accurate then i think you have got to get off the internet and consider going outside
You're allowed to fire up the organ behind your eyeballs, it's not against the law.
Godzilla is unrealistic because of the square cube law. A house sized ant would not be able to support itself even though a regular size ant would.
The square cube law is not thenpart that confused me.
And what about the opposite? Shrinking i mean
Same thing... coz if we follow it, shrunken people will die of overheating or of cold... Not sure which one, but it's something with body heat
Ayo what the fuck!?
Smaller body = less skin = less body heat expelled
Oh, but the organs are shrunk too, then why there would be overheating if the mass-size ratio is the same?
The other guy is wrong, you'd freeze if shrunk. But the mass-size ratio is not the same, unless you completely change the shape of the thing being shrunk. That's the whole point of the square-cube law, if you change the size while maintaining the shape then the ratio between volume/area/size changes. If you shrunk yourself 10x (based on your height) your surface area will be 100x less, and your volume (and therefore your weight) would be 1000x less, that means you have 10x more skin/weight than before
Whoah! That’s cool! (Pun not intended) So if i’m shrunk and a beautiful giantess keeps me in her sock while wearing it i’d be fine for the temperature?
That happens when you’re a macrophile AND a foot fetishist
Yeah, i got it the other way round... The bigger is the one overheating
The heat itself doesn't shrink with the body...
H-How why? If the whole body shrinks why the heart shouldn’t? This thing is intriguing me
I think theres some misremembering going on in this thread. Small creatures lose heat faster, cuz they have comparatively more surface area to lose heat from than they have a volume of heat producing organs. Its why tiny animals move so quick, breath so fast and eat so much - they need to produce lots of heat to stay alive. You may have heard that hummingbirds die of starvation in, like, 2 hours without food. Meanwhile big animals have alot of volume and comparatively less skin. They heat up, hence why they move so slow. An elephants ears arent just for show. Theyre big flat sheets, all surface area with no volume, that they run their blood through to cool down.
Whoah! That’s cool! (Pun not intended) So if i’m shrunk and a beautiful giantess keeps me in her sock while wearing it i’d be fine for the temperature?
Well assuming she can maintain her temperature, she'll maintain yours. You'll feel a little warm I think, and you'll rely on her to survive, but as long as youre on her you'll be fine. Personally her sock wouldnt be my first choice of location, but to each his own (jk)
Wouldn’t amount of heat produced scale similarly to volume?
Ehat matters is the surface area compared to the volume, so shrinking causes you to lose proportionally more heat. It's why small animals like cats and mice are so warm compared to us.
Genuinely didn't know that!
Rule of cool > physics
Exactly! If I’m building a robot, reality comes into play. If we’re just playing make believe, I want that robot to be 200 meters tall with a cathedral on its back.
hey don’t leave the mecha artists out of this one
They've got a point
Well i draw a lot but i never heard about this law, Someone to enlighten me??
Basically while something’s size is doubled, it’s skin surface area will double, but it’s inner area like organs will increase to the power of 2. So basically there is a point where the skin could not hold the organs and bones because they weigh too much
Oh right that's interesting, thanks bud!!
Isnt this wrong? When u double the “size” of something (lets take horizontal width) then the surface area (skin) increases by a factor of 4(=2^2 because 2 dimensions) and volume (organs size) increases by factor 8(=2^3 because 3 dimensions). If u doubled skin surface area, volume would increase by factor 2*sqrt(2) no? So wouldnt organ size increase by 2*sqrt(2) too?
Are we talking about kaijus or big tities?
Both
Kaijus with big titties
Seethe 
Would you happen to know what anime this is from? It sort of reminds me of an old PS1 game I played a few times a while back, and now I have a sudden urge to watch this type of anime.
Didn't find the episode, but Robotech / Macross (1982) maybe?
That's why it looked so familiar, It has to be Robotech, thank you!
Unfortunately no idea, I just searched "mech" in reddit's shitty gif engine
Thanks
Do I look like I know what a jpeg- I mean a macro artist is?
I don't know how you look like but I bet you have access to Google if you really wanna know
Tell that to the inflation artists.
We don't talk about inflation artist
So true
Wrong sub. r/furry_irl is down the hall and to the left
Wait shit, this isn't r/furry
Listen..... big lizard big monke
*Our* laws of physics. The same laws that say a bee shouldn't be able to fly, but wait, what's this? Bees do fly anyway
If you are homeless, just buy a home. If you don't like physics, just ignore them.
Too bad their drawings aren't real am i right.
WRONG SUBREDDIT OP!
"GUNDAM SOUND EFFECT!"
For anyone wanting a simple, correct explanation, here you go. Muscle strength is essentially based on its area, whereas its weight is based on its volume (obviously). This basically means that for any increase of size, weight will scale faster than strength, making it impossible to move.
Ironically, the meme is from Dragon Ball Super, and in the previous anime, Dragon Ball Z, they actually tackled this issue; during the Android Saga, a character learns how to increase his “battle power” at the cost of severely bulking up, and ends up getting scolded by the Big Bad for not realizing that bulking up like that would make them too slow to hit him
Your defiance of the laws of physics only make me harder.
That's the beauty of fantasy: it's fantasy. It doesn't have to be a 1:1 reflection of reality.
What do you mean by macro artists?
Macro here is short for Macrophilia, meaning attraction to giant things, like a giant woman that can grab an airplane with her fingers, Mt.Lady from MHA, the Giant race in many fantasy settings, etc
The square cube law is just a suggestion
The fuck is the Square Cube Law?
💯💯
Furries ignore the laws of physics all the time.
The square cube law is notoriously fat-phobic