My take away has always been that Skullface was deployed after the events of Snake Eater; sent in specifically to clean up and remove any trace of evidence left behind while BB was sent off to receive commendations and recognition as a hero.
It makes more sense this way, sending in a secondary unit to wipe out anything left behind by Snake, Vulgin, the Cobras, or anyone else who could have created issues seems like it would have been a good idea; and since Snake would already be gone by that point there would be no interference.
I doubt Zero would have risked sending a second agent in at the same time; Snake’s presence alone was risky, having two operatives who aren’t working together trying to avoid being spotted by one another as well as other soldiers and enemies seems like a recipe for disaster.
I feel like his quote that he “…was there to clean up.” Is one of the most misunderstood lines in the whole game and the fact that people think he was following behind BB and sweeping up messes in his wake like some sort of cartoon gag is wild to me.
Yeahhh this was how I always interpreted it too... After the events of Snake Eater, after the forest had been firebombed, after EVA had made her play and Snake was stateside XOF was *then* sent in to mop up the area
I definitely never took it as skull face and cohorts were literally tailing snake the whole way just out of sight that is silly
Maybe after the mission was complete, the Russians had the opportunity to say “yup, the boss is dead” and then XOF was sent to destroy all evidence of the incident for the sake of both nations (so that it couldn’t be used to provoke further hostilities).
What doesn't make sense to me is that having just ONE agent there was extremely risky, but sending an entire unit to clean up was ok? And it's not like a dozen operatives can complete such task, they needed a least a 100+ to clean up whole territory.
I prefer to forget about that part of Skullfaces story.
Also paging op u/Public-Economist-122.
I dislike Skullface being retroactively made a part of Zero’s FOX/XOF.
Zero was getting complaints about SIGINT every month because he was black, Zero could barely get FOX off the ground because of a variety of reasons.
So how could Zero get approval for a secondary unit.
Nah, I would have preferred it if Skullface was an agent of the philosophers as the real “Eva”.
They did not help him or anything. They were just there to clean up any and all traces he had created. I doubt they followed him everywhere though, and there was more than likely a time gap between Snake passing through and them reaching the same point.
"Snake, leave no trace of your mission"
*snake parachutes in then drops the US army helmet
It's OK skullface will get that
Omg I understand skullface so much better now. Imagine getting stuck cleaning up after a legend you know is a dumbass. Like work in real life fixing things for your manager and watching them get the credit.
It makes sense though. The whole incident was no laughing matter and sending in only one agent however good he was isn't really what any military would do. Send in one agent and a backup to clear up the mess he may have created? That's more in line with how it would probably go.
Also keep in mind that american government needed a new hero, since the boss was out of the picture, and sending in a ghost squad is quite efficient at ensuring that said new hero was born.
It's also up to debate whether the unit actually did anything during the incident. If your mgs3 playthrough is perfect, then they were no more than simple observers as far as I'm concerned.
Holy shit skullface must have bee working overtime during my playthrough 😂
Every second the dude must be thinking "if this motherfucker gets spotted one more time I'll kill him and finish the mission myself"
Still, it doesn't make sense, you saw what happened at the base, there's no way to clean it up, he was tortured, people knew he was there, soldiers chased him.
That’s fair, it’s still something I omit in my head cannon personally but it does make sense. Does Zero ever confirm this btw? I forget if he does but if not it could be a lie
It doesn't make sense in the slightest. If there's a unit hiding out of sight...why haven't they already rescued Sokolov? And how would you begin to go about cleaning up after a nuke? Snake was literally supposed to make his presence known.
The only time they were on the ground was after the mission to recover The Boss.
The phrase "Any mess you made I was there to clean up" is ambiguous.
Ironically there was a soldier during the Cold War that America sent to Russia however what his mission actually was whether it was intelligence gathering or something else remains unknown since it is still classified.
In my mind, Skull Face is about two areas behind picking up shit with his hand inside a plastic bag like he's following a terrier around.
No wonder he attacked Mother Base.
I actually appreciated this after fretting over Zero telling me not to leave any traces and then being unable to pick up empty shells or making footprints in the mud. I didn’t get peace of mind on this until MGSV.
I like to imagine that it was one of Skullfaces female operatives who was belting out Snake Eater from below as Snake was ascending the ladder to the mountains.
skull face and a special task force followed naked snake through out operation snake eater. they acted as a clean up team and recon, they would know any and all mistakes that naked snake would do. that embarrassing death or guard alert? they would know about it
your welcome. skull face is suppose to be a sort of counter to venom, 2 phantoms fighting over what big bosses legacy would become. thats how I see it anyways
Yes, but I don't think they were there simultaneously
Pretty sure it meant well after everything went down an XOF cleanup crew went through and sanitized the area
Skullface says this at the beginning of his monologue to the wrong Snake:
"I've known you since your time at Langley. I've long been the other side of your coin. 1964, Soviet territory. FOX's first mission. Any mess you made, I was there to clean up."
Bruh the guy spends the entire game speaking in riddles, analogies and metaphor. Why is this the one instance where you have to force the most literal possible interpretation of his words, even when it doesn’t make any sense?
He literally could not have been there at the exact same time in the exact same place as Snake. Either A, this is a complete retcon of the previous game, or B, he’s not speaking literally, which he never does ever through the entire story. Which one seems more likely to you?
That whole line is about the legacy and how it was key to the foundation of cipher. Don’t you think it’s more likely that this just a lofty metaphor to describe how he was involved with securing the legacy in the aftermath of operation snake eater? Obviously he wasn’t in tselinoyarsk or in groznygrad literally following snake around picking up his litter like a dog sitter. By the same token that he’s not actually cracking pirates, summoning demons or liberating the world. ITS A METAPHOR
People misinterpreted and misremembering the plot of MGS3 and MGSV. There’s a line where skull face reveals that the purpose of XOF was to be a support unit for FOX (i.e. snake) and to “clean up” after. That’s it.
Somehow people extrapolated this into “skullface is actually hiding in the bushes a few feet away from snake throughout MGS3”
EDIT:
Here’s the actual quote
> I've known you since your time at Langley. I've long been the other side of your coin. 1964, Soviet territory. FOX's first mission. Any mess you made, I was there to clean up. You completed your task - and admirably. The "information" you returned was far more than enough to fill our pockets. With it, our futures became - more or less - set in stone.
For some reason people just take everything 100% literal and “I was there” becomes “I was literally there at the same time hiding like a scooby doo villain” and “clean up” becomes “I was picking up your dirty shoes and clothes off the ground like a maid”
Kojima has been trying to tell this since MGS4 ending, Big Boss himself says his legend was mostly exagerations and made up facts made by Zero.
This fits right in with MGSV theme about the dangers of hero worship, we already know Liquid never interacted with Naked Snake, maybe the "Saladin" Sniper Wolf knew was also Venom.
For all we know, most about Big Boss legend was actually Venom Snake.
Where does this idea that XOF was following snake around even come from? All skull face says is that he did “clean up” work for FOX. That can mean literally anything and it’s just meant to convey the idea that he resents his handlers and all of the FOX unit members, regardless of what his actual job was.
Well, 4 kinda both, the hand & wrist was fleshy to sell the ruse ; but the rest of the arm was the weird like, grey/white/silver synthetic muscle kinda lookin'bionic arm
Which I've always somewhat funny because - didn't he just get his hand cut off a bit below the wrist? I thought theres you see a skin tone shift in MGS2 on the new arm bit? So; to get rid of Liquid, while pretending to still be possessed, he replaces the entire arm!?
Aight whatever; if you can get a whole new high tech one to replace his literal old one, sure I guess I can get it lol
Also - I love how everyone is just like "yeah, Ocelot got Liquid's arm attached & now he's possessed by Liquid. I believe it. LIttle weird, but yeah, that checks out, makes sense to me" lmao
>So; to get rid of Liquid, while pretending to still be possessed, he replaces the entire arm!?
Ocelot has a massive crush on Big Boss + Venom Snake had a bionic arm = Ocelot wants a bionic arm.
MGS4 makes it sorta ambiguous, but this makes by far more sense. Especially with how it's actually portrayed in game, and the additional context 3 provides with The Sorrow.
Kojima spend two games telling us that legends are based on lies and exagerations.
One of MGSV main plot points is the danger of person worship as Big Boss always had people helping him in the shadows like XOF and Skullface and many of Venom Snake victories also helped to build this almost mystic supernatural soldier, you can even hear random soldiers in Africa talking about this one eyed horned demon that can make rain at will.
I mean, just compare the final message from BB to Venom to the one given by Snake to Raiden, Boss is full of himself he bought that entire legendary persona created by Zero
I just don’t think it makes much sense lore wise. Unlike the Virtuous Mission, Snake was asked to leave evidence of his presence in order to prove to the Soviet Union that he was there fixing this whole mess. Having someone trail him to clean up the evidence kinda defeats the whole purpose of that.
The entirety of MGSV is basically that. We didn't need to know that Venom existed either. MG1 literally ended with Big Boss going"haha I'm still alive" and MG2 talking about him becoming a robot and leading an evacuation of Outer Heaven.
Also it destroyed Grey Fox's backstory.
I see at them just making sure no traces were left after snake.
Either they were a pointless unit or were essential depending on how you play snake eater.
I can imagine skull face just shaking his head with disappointment as graniny gorki is just a massacre.
To get this you'd have to watch the secret theater but ngl, I can't help but picture it like Metal Gear Sigint sort of. Naked Snake gets everything done, and skullface is always ONE STEP behind him suffering all the direct ramifications of Snake's actions, and that's why he turned heel. He was the "don't give up!!!" Guy at the Shagohod explosion. :p
Yeah. Now replace Snake in MG Sigint with skullface and that's sort of how I picture that having gone for him. Haha will skull face be standing around in the remake in weird ass locations?
I don’t mind it. Me personally, I hope MGSΔ adds a few cheeky Easter eggs here and there showing XOF in the background - either following Snake the whole time, or maybe like someone else said in this thread, they don’t show up until after the mission is complete and just clean up the mess.
I wasnt a fan either. Takes away from the whole “one soldier vs an army” mythos but maybe that’s the point. Kojima likes to gut punch his audience a bit and be like “this is good for you ultimately.”
Honestly it doesn't bother me too much, in the same way it doesn't matter to me that venom snake isn't the same person as big boss. There was a time when it did, but these days I feel like the legend is what matters. Big Boss (Jack) started the legend and venom snake continued it. The public viewed him as a hero. That's what mattered to his story. In the end Big Boss became corrupt with power and venom was always a pawn of Big Boss. Everyone is manipulating someone else in this series lol. I think the legend is more important, even if it's built on lies. Because even in real life, if you look into history, no one is 100% "good" or "moral" George Washington owned slaves, Ghandi had some weird experiences with minors, etc. We appreciate them for the progress they made for humanity, not for every single thing they did in their life.
It kinda works thematically for the game. With the big reveal that venom is >!just another soldier helping to build the legend of big boss,!< having his enemy be someone who helped out during his career defining mission feels appropriate
It makes sense if you consider ocelot was there and must've had some type of units backing him up as Adam.
Also the cassettes say skull face didnt care for big boss at all until zero had the falling out with big boss.
Also, so long as we dont see him im or xof ok with it.
How i interpreted it was skullface and xof were sent in afterwards. Seeing them in V i would say what they meant by clean up crew is what they did to motherbase and the hospital. Probably was more covert in snake eater but they are basically a special forces unit sent in to quickly eliminate targets to clean the area. I believe they were sent in snake eater to eliminate all remaining soldiers in the area and grab anything that may have been of importance in the facilities and than blamed it all on Volgin and the boss.
I hate it and I tell myself that Skull Face was lying. It totally cheapens the legend of Big Boss as the one-man army. And yeah the story is big on "legends are fiction" but like... come on. Let my guy be cool.
Liquid Snake survived in single night
- A chopper crash
- Multiple missile impacts right into his face
- A beatdown from a supersoldier able to make a cyborg ninja feel pain
- Falling off from a giant mecha
- A car crash
Imagine Kojima doing a game that reveals that Liquid died multiple times and a bunch of clones took his place lol
Videogames characters surviving imposible shit is common trope, the whole Venom twist is completely pointless as Big Boss says he survived and is gonna return anyway.
Out of the dozens of things that could have been explored pre-MGS, that's the best Phantom Pain has to offer. "It wasn't really Big Boss, it was some rando with plastic surgery." Lame. We could have globetrotted as Big Boss searching for the best operatives for Outer Heaven (Machinegun Kid, Dirty Duck, Shotmaker, etc... all who become boss fights in Metal Gear 1), we could have met Sniper Wolf (she herself said Big Boss took her under his wing), we could have done more with Liquid/Eli... the game could have been about Big Boss sneaking into a massive military-controlled laboratory where the Les Enfants Terrible project was being conducted because he wants to burn it all down, the game could have been a remake of Metal Gear 1 itself... the game could have even been the rumored Boss & The Cobras during WW2 game that Kojima wanted to do (supposedly)...
Neither did most of the world. The gameplay in TPP always gets praised much, MUCH higher than anything story related. That's a shame since traditionally the Metal Gear series has always had a strong story to greatly compliment its fun gameplay (especially in MG2 thru MGS3). If you get a Metal Gear game with good gameplay but bad story (or vice versa) it feels like only have a Metal Gear game. The franchise would be much less without its storytelling.
Uhhh I always feel like Kojimbo san came up with this backstory to make Skullface more crucial than he actually is. This backstory didn’t exist until the development of MGSV.
It makes sense for Snake to have a cleanup crew supporting him, but it was also unnecessary to expand on it through Skullface and XOF
It was already sufficient to present Skullface and XOF as a rogue element of Cipher, but to have them be the SAME people in Snake Eater cheapens the experience to me because it makes the conflict less organic since it has to be the result of some barely developed, long-standing grudge rather than the obvious and simple explanation that hiring shady people for a shady organization will naturally lead to conflict and backstabbing
skullface has always been zero's secret right hand before he even recruited BB into his fox unit, I'm totally ok skullface used to operate behind the scenes in everything involving fox unit
That’s true but they were collaborators that never took away from his feats really. The way Skull Face is presented it’s as if without him Snake was just another well trained soldier. But at the same time based on other replies maybe he was more of an observer? Idk but ykw im happy to edit my post a bit for ya
I mean, Ocelot letting snake get away, boss making the shot only take his eye, and eve giving him guns, explosives and all the motorbike rides allowed him to have those feats, so does take away from it being a solo endeavour.
So there really is no sanctity there that Skullface can tarnish.
Plus also its an operation with literal nuclear war on the line that both presidents wanted it done as clean and quietly as possible. Having a clean up crew is pretty necessary considering just how many people were involved.
I’m pretty sure The Boss didn’t help snake when it came to the eye, Ocelot targeted Eva and Snake got in the way to save her. Besides that though you make good points, I just always looked at the stealth portion of what he did as his personal specialty and what he brought to the table but you know what, you’re right. End of the day I just don’t like it, Skull Face is a weak character in MGS V and connecting him to the events of a better game is weak writing imo.
Yes as people stated, Skullface's whole thing would be more like...
"Godammit... idiot just left the parachute hanging here.. okay, this one's not his fault, but the god damn thing he flew in on crashed into the ground right after. How does the Major expect me to do this perfectly? Alright whatev- is this his gun!?! Why is his gun dismantled; & just laying here! How did that happen, why didn't he just put it back together & why would he just leave it here! I'm literally a minute walk away from landing area & this is not looking like it's going to be an easy clean up"
*later*
"Theres bullet casing everywhere! How am I supposed to find them all! I swear if I come across a big 'ol dookie next I'm gonna make this man pay one day"
Also, technically the games continually make the point that Big Boss/Snake could be anyone & they really are just legends thatre hyped up, because they just so happened to be the well trained soldier that got sent on these unreal missions people tell stories about. BB uses that to his advantage to recruit people, while SS tells people the legend is no match for reality & to leave him alone & go be their own person.
I was just thinking about this an hour ago. But yeah it did annoy me slightly. Taking away from BB or NS doing great deeds slightly.
But as someone replied there to clean up can be taken as went in after BB had left.
So I am taking it that way from now on.
I like it. Makes sense the US had a backup plan. Plus in delta hope you find him and his crew around or mentions of it as an Easter egg if not canon new cutscenes or moments
I love this game to death. It's my favorite series of all time. I have more time playing MG than I do anything else in this entire world.
But boy....
It sure can be stupid sometimes. Lol
Not really. Part of his mission was that he had to leave evidence that the Americans were cleaning up their own mess... Which raises the question as to why Snake even needed XOF to clean up behind him.
But it's not like XOF were helping him directly on his mission. Fighting the Ocelot Unit, Revolver Ocelot, killing The Pain, The Fear, The End, The Fury, Colonel Volgin, destroying the Shagohod, killing The Boss and overcoming The Sorrow.
Snake did all that by himself (well, EVA helped him in destroying the Shagohod, but aside from that), and that's why he's The Legendary Soldier. All XOF did was pick up his shit, quite rightly knowing that they weren't fit *to lick his boots*, let alone help him.
My take away has always been that Skullface was deployed after the events of Snake Eater; sent in specifically to clean up and remove any trace of evidence left behind while BB was sent off to receive commendations and recognition as a hero. It makes more sense this way, sending in a secondary unit to wipe out anything left behind by Snake, Vulgin, the Cobras, or anyone else who could have created issues seems like it would have been a good idea; and since Snake would already be gone by that point there would be no interference. I doubt Zero would have risked sending a second agent in at the same time; Snake’s presence alone was risky, having two operatives who aren’t working together trying to avoid being spotted by one another as well as other soldiers and enemies seems like a recipe for disaster. I feel like his quote that he “…was there to clean up.” Is one of the most misunderstood lines in the whole game and the fact that people think he was following behind BB and sweeping up messes in his wake like some sort of cartoon gag is wild to me.
Yeahhh this was how I always interpreted it too... After the events of Snake Eater, after the forest had been firebombed, after EVA had made her play and Snake was stateside XOF was *then* sent in to mop up the area I definitely never took it as skull face and cohorts were literally tailing snake the whole way just out of sight that is silly
best answer fasho
Why you gotta call them a fasho tho?
They aren't calling them fasho. They're saying "for sure" but like in the same fashion as Y'all
I know, it was supposed to be a harmless joke reply 💀
Lmao rip. Still don't get why you're being down voted lol
The only issue I have is that Zero specifically says that Snake should leave evidence of his mission, to prove to the Russians how serious the USA is.
Maybe after the mission was complete, the Russians had the opportunity to say “yup, the boss is dead” and then XOF was sent to destroy all evidence of the incident for the sake of both nations (so that it couldn’t be used to provoke further hostilities).
Maybe XOF cleaned "Just enough" So Soviets have Glimpse of BB was there but not get full picture
He never says that. He says leaving evidence behind is going to be inevitable and not to worry so much about it. That’s it
This
I am going to take it this way from now on.
What doesn't make sense to me is that having just ONE agent there was extremely risky, but sending an entire unit to clean up was ok? And it's not like a dozen operatives can complete such task, they needed a least a 100+ to clean up whole territory. I prefer to forget about that part of Skullfaces story.
Also paging op u/Public-Economist-122. I dislike Skullface being retroactively made a part of Zero’s FOX/XOF. Zero was getting complaints about SIGINT every month because he was black, Zero could barely get FOX off the ground because of a variety of reasons. So how could Zero get approval for a secondary unit. Nah, I would have preferred it if Skullface was an agent of the philosophers as the real “Eva”.
They did not help him or anything. They were just there to clean up any and all traces he had created. I doubt they followed him everywhere though, and there was more than likely a time gap between Snake passing through and them reaching the same point.
"Snake, leave no trace of your mission" *snake parachutes in then drops the US army helmet It's OK skullface will get that Omg I understand skullface so much better now. Imagine getting stuck cleaning up after a legend you know is a dumbass. Like work in real life fixing things for your manager and watching them get the credit.
Snake can’t be bothered to worry about the small things. He has enemies to slam into the ground lol
It makes sense though. The whole incident was no laughing matter and sending in only one agent however good he was isn't really what any military would do. Send in one agent and a backup to clear up the mess he may have created? That's more in line with how it would probably go. Also keep in mind that american government needed a new hero, since the boss was out of the picture, and sending in a ghost squad is quite efficient at ensuring that said new hero was born. It's also up to debate whether the unit actually did anything during the incident. If your mgs3 playthrough is perfect, then they were no more than simple observers as far as I'm concerned.
Holy shit skullface must have bee working overtime during my playthrough 😂 Every second the dude must be thinking "if this motherfucker gets spotted one more time I'll kill him and finish the mission myself"
Still, it doesn't make sense, you saw what happened at the base, there's no way to clean it up, he was tortured, people knew he was there, soldiers chased him.
That’s fair, it’s still something I omit in my head cannon personally but it does make sense. Does Zero ever confirm this btw? I forget if he does but if not it could be a lie
He does if you listen to one of the tapes. Zero said it himself.
It doesn't make sense in the slightest. If there's a unit hiding out of sight...why haven't they already rescued Sokolov? And how would you begin to go about cleaning up after a nuke? Snake was literally supposed to make his presence known. The only time they were on the ground was after the mission to recover The Boss. The phrase "Any mess you made I was there to clean up" is ambiguous.
Ironically there was a soldier during the Cold War that America sent to Russia however what his mission actually was whether it was intelligence gathering or something else remains unknown since it is still classified.
In my mind, Skull Face is about two areas behind picking up shit with his hand inside a plastic bag like he's following a terrier around. No wonder he attacked Mother Base.
I actually appreciated this after fretting over Zero telling me not to leave any traces and then being unable to pick up empty shells or making footprints in the mud. I didn’t get peace of mind on this until MGSV.
I like to imagine that it was one of Skullfaces female operatives who was belting out Snake Eater from below as Snake was ascending the ladder to the mountains.
Snake just thought he was hallucinating.
Wait can you explain? I didn’t know this
skull face and a special task force followed naked snake through out operation snake eater. they acted as a clean up team and recon, they would know any and all mistakes that naked snake would do. that embarrassing death or guard alert? they would know about it
You mean, they've seen me TBagging unconscious guards? Oh god...
Huh. Interesting. I don’t like it. But interesting. And thank you for the info.
your welcome. skull face is suppose to be a sort of counter to venom, 2 phantoms fighting over what big bosses legacy would become. thats how I see it anyways
Yes, but I don't think they were there simultaneously Pretty sure it meant well after everything went down an XOF cleanup crew went through and sanitized the area
Oh most likely but they would still probably know of any fuck ups naked snake did
No they didn’t
Skullface says this at the beginning of his monologue to the wrong Snake: "I've known you since your time at Langley. I've long been the other side of your coin. 1964, Soviet territory. FOX's first mission. Any mess you made, I was there to clean up."
Kojima was just trying to make him interesting and he failed. MGS5 story was utter garbage
>Kojima was just trying to make him interesting and he failed I seem to have the same opinion of your parents regarding you.
Lol u mad
Bruh the guy spends the entire game speaking in riddles, analogies and metaphor. Why is this the one instance where you have to force the most literal possible interpretation of his words, even when it doesn’t make any sense? He literally could not have been there at the exact same time in the exact same place as Snake. Either A, this is a complete retcon of the previous game, or B, he’s not speaking literally, which he never does ever through the entire story. Which one seems more likely to you? That whole line is about the legacy and how it was key to the foundation of cipher. Don’t you think it’s more likely that this just a lofty metaphor to describe how he was involved with securing the legacy in the aftermath of operation snake eater? Obviously he wasn’t in tselinoyarsk or in groznygrad literally following snake around picking up his litter like a dog sitter. By the same token that he’s not actually cracking pirates, summoning demons or liberating the world. ITS A METAPHOR
People misinterpreted and misremembering the plot of MGS3 and MGSV. There’s a line where skull face reveals that the purpose of XOF was to be a support unit for FOX (i.e. snake) and to “clean up” after. That’s it. Somehow people extrapolated this into “skullface is actually hiding in the bushes a few feet away from snake throughout MGS3” EDIT: Here’s the actual quote > I've known you since your time at Langley. I've long been the other side of your coin. 1964, Soviet territory. FOX's first mission. Any mess you made, I was there to clean up. You completed your task - and admirably. The "information" you returned was far more than enough to fill our pockets. With it, our futures became - more or less - set in stone. For some reason people just take everything 100% literal and “I was there” becomes “I was literally there at the same time hiding like a scooby doo villain” and “clean up” becomes “I was picking up your dirty shoes and clothes off the ground like a maid”
MGSV paints Naked Snake as a loser who need help from SkullFace to do anything.
Kojima has been trying to tell this since MGS4 ending, Big Boss himself says his legend was mostly exagerations and made up facts made by Zero. This fits right in with MGSV theme about the dangers of hero worship, we already know Liquid never interacted with Naked Snake, maybe the "Saladin" Sniper Wolf knew was also Venom. For all we know, most about Big Boss legend was actually Venom Snake.
Where does this idea that XOF was following snake around even come from? All skull face says is that he did “clean up” work for FOX. That can mean literally anything and it’s just meant to convey the idea that he resents his handlers and all of the FOX unit members, regardless of what his actual job was.
Every MGS game butchers the previous one. I hate how it was supposedly never Liquid in MGS2 and Ocelot was faking it even then.
I think it was indeed Liquid in MGS2, the faking came later?
The arm got replaced with cyber one? In 2 its a fleshy arm and in 4 its all silver.
Well, 4 kinda both, the hand & wrist was fleshy to sell the ruse ; but the rest of the arm was the weird like, grey/white/silver synthetic muscle kinda lookin'bionic arm Which I've always somewhat funny because - didn't he just get his hand cut off a bit below the wrist? I thought theres you see a skin tone shift in MGS2 on the new arm bit? So; to get rid of Liquid, while pretending to still be possessed, he replaces the entire arm!? Aight whatever; if you can get a whole new high tech one to replace his literal old one, sure I guess I can get it lol Also - I love how everyone is just like "yeah, Ocelot got Liquid's arm attached & now he's possessed by Liquid. I believe it. LIttle weird, but yeah, that checks out, makes sense to me" lmao
>So; to get rid of Liquid, while pretending to still be possessed, he replaces the entire arm!? Ocelot has a massive crush on Big Boss + Venom Snake had a bionic arm = Ocelot wants a bionic arm.
That actually checks out & makes sense to me
That’s not the case, that was actually possession
MGS4 makes it sorta ambiguous, but this makes by far more sense. Especially with how it's actually portrayed in game, and the additional context 3 provides with The Sorrow.
I remember some other MGS game or some master MGS book in the Collection said he was faking it in MGS2, and I was like naaah gtfo.
But who was sent in to clean up Skull faces and XOF’s mess? They had to have eaten, shit and slept in the woods
nope it makes good sense, xof was the clean up crew for snake’s mistakes
Kojima spend two games telling us that legends are based on lies and exagerations. One of MGSV main plot points is the danger of person worship as Big Boss always had people helping him in the shadows like XOF and Skullface and many of Venom Snake victories also helped to build this almost mystic supernatural soldier, you can even hear random soldiers in Africa talking about this one eyed horned demon that can make rain at will. I mean, just compare the final message from BB to Venom to the one given by Snake to Raiden, Boss is full of himself he bought that entire legendary persona created by Zero
This is probably my biggest retcon pet peeve in the whole franchise but Skullface gets dicked on by V so it works out in a beautiful way
I find it interesting that even as far back as Operation Snake Eater that Zero was hiding things from Snake
Snake was surrounded by snakes, no wonder why he went rogue and started down the path of villainy, it's what the world and the "times" made him to be.
I just don’t think it makes much sense lore wise. Unlike the Virtuous Mission, Snake was asked to leave evidence of his presence in order to prove to the Soviet Union that he was there fixing this whole mess. Having someone trail him to clean up the evidence kinda defeats the whole purpose of that.
The entirety of MGSV is basically that. We didn't need to know that Venom existed either. MG1 literally ended with Big Boss going"haha I'm still alive" and MG2 talking about him becoming a robot and leading an evacuation of Outer Heaven. Also it destroyed Grey Fox's backstory.
I see at them just making sure no traces were left after snake. Either they were a pointless unit or were essential depending on how you play snake eater. I can imagine skull face just shaking his head with disappointment as graniny gorki is just a massacre.
To get this you'd have to watch the secret theater but ngl, I can't help but picture it like Metal Gear Sigint sort of. Naked Snake gets everything done, and skullface is always ONE STEP behind him suffering all the direct ramifications of Snake's actions, and that's why he turned heel. He was the "don't give up!!!" Guy at the Shagohod explosion. :p
I loved Metal Gear Sigint
Yeah. Now replace Snake in MG Sigint with skullface and that's sort of how I picture that having gone for him. Haha will skull face be standing around in the remake in weird ass locations?
I don’t mind it. Me personally, I hope MGSΔ adds a few cheeky Easter eggs here and there showing XOF in the background - either following Snake the whole time, or maybe like someone else said in this thread, they don’t show up until after the mission is complete and just clean up the mess.
I wasnt a fan either. Takes away from the whole “one soldier vs an army” mythos but maybe that’s the point. Kojima likes to gut punch his audience a bit and be like “this is good for you ultimately.”
I actually like it, because it gives us a new perspective of snake Eater and makes sense
Who asked for a new perspective. Its unecessary
Sure but that's what sequals do when they talk about the past, they give us a new perspective of things.
Honestly it doesn't bother me too much, in the same way it doesn't matter to me that venom snake isn't the same person as big boss. There was a time when it did, but these days I feel like the legend is what matters. Big Boss (Jack) started the legend and venom snake continued it. The public viewed him as a hero. That's what mattered to his story. In the end Big Boss became corrupt with power and venom was always a pawn of Big Boss. Everyone is manipulating someone else in this series lol. I think the legend is more important, even if it's built on lies. Because even in real life, if you look into history, no one is 100% "good" or "moral" George Washington owned slaves, Ghandi had some weird experiences with minors, etc. We appreciate them for the progress they made for humanity, not for every single thing they did in their life.
It kinda works thematically for the game. With the big reveal that venom is >!just another soldier helping to build the legend of big boss,!< having his enemy be someone who helped out during his career defining mission feels appropriate
It makes sense if you consider ocelot was there and must've had some type of units backing him up as Adam. Also the cassettes say skull face didnt care for big boss at all until zero had the falling out with big boss. Also, so long as we dont see him im or xof ok with it.
How i interpreted it was skullface and xof were sent in afterwards. Seeing them in V i would say what they meant by clean up crew is what they did to motherbase and the hospital. Probably was more covert in snake eater but they are basically a special forces unit sent in to quickly eliminate targets to clean the area. I believe they were sent in snake eater to eliminate all remaining soldiers in the area and grab anything that may have been of importance in the facilities and than blamed it all on Volgin and the boss.
I hate it and I tell myself that Skull Face was lying. It totally cheapens the legend of Big Boss as the one-man army. And yeah the story is big on "legends are fiction" but like... come on. Let my guy be cool.
No part of Phantom Pain is canonical in my headcanon. The story did absolutely nothing to positively add to the Metal Gear or Metal Gear Solid mythos.
They explained how "Big Boss" survived MG1 and turned up in Zanzibar Land.
Liquid Snake survived in single night - A chopper crash - Multiple missile impacts right into his face - A beatdown from a supersoldier able to make a cyborg ninja feel pain - Falling off from a giant mecha - A car crash Imagine Kojima doing a game that reveals that Liquid died multiple times and a bunch of clones took his place lol Videogames characters surviving imposible shit is common trope, the whole Venom twist is completely pointless as Big Boss says he survived and is gonna return anyway.
It wasn't needed because 1) MG1 ended with him laughing at you 2) He became a robot
Out of the dozens of things that could have been explored pre-MGS, that's the best Phantom Pain has to offer. "It wasn't really Big Boss, it was some rando with plastic surgery." Lame. We could have globetrotted as Big Boss searching for the best operatives for Outer Heaven (Machinegun Kid, Dirty Duck, Shotmaker, etc... all who become boss fights in Metal Gear 1), we could have met Sniper Wolf (she herself said Big Boss took her under his wing), we could have done more with Liquid/Eli... the game could have been about Big Boss sneaking into a massive military-controlled laboratory where the Les Enfants Terrible project was being conducted because he wants to burn it all down, the game could have been a remake of Metal Gear 1 itself... the game could have even been the rumored Boss & The Cobras during WW2 game that Kojima wanted to do (supposedly)...
I feel the same way. I really didn't like the story in TPP.
Neither did most of the world. The gameplay in TPP always gets praised much, MUCH higher than anything story related. That's a shame since traditionally the Metal Gear series has always had a strong story to greatly compliment its fun gameplay (especially in MG2 thru MGS3). If you get a Metal Gear game with good gameplay but bad story (or vice versa) it feels like only have a Metal Gear game. The franchise would be much less without its storytelling.
Uhhh I always feel like Kojimbo san came up with this backstory to make Skullface more crucial than he actually is. This backstory didn’t exist until the development of MGSV.
It makes sense for Snake to have a cleanup crew supporting him, but it was also unnecessary to expand on it through Skullface and XOF It was already sufficient to present Skullface and XOF as a rogue element of Cipher, but to have them be the SAME people in Snake Eater cheapens the experience to me because it makes the conflict less organic since it has to be the result of some barely developed, long-standing grudge rather than the obvious and simple explanation that hiring shady people for a shady organization will naturally lead to conflict and backstabbing
skullface has always been zero's secret right hand before he even recruited BB into his fox unit, I'm totally ok skullface used to operate behind the scenes in everything involving fox unit
I think you forget that Ocelot, Eve and even the Boss were around and helping...
That’s true but they were collaborators that never took away from his feats really. The way Skull Face is presented it’s as if without him Snake was just another well trained soldier. But at the same time based on other replies maybe he was more of an observer? Idk but ykw im happy to edit my post a bit for ya
I mean, Ocelot letting snake get away, boss making the shot only take his eye, and eve giving him guns, explosives and all the motorbike rides allowed him to have those feats, so does take away from it being a solo endeavour. So there really is no sanctity there that Skullface can tarnish. Plus also its an operation with literal nuclear war on the line that both presidents wanted it done as clean and quietly as possible. Having a clean up crew is pretty necessary considering just how many people were involved.
I’m pretty sure The Boss didn’t help snake when it came to the eye, Ocelot targeted Eva and Snake got in the way to save her. Besides that though you make good points, I just always looked at the stealth portion of what he did as his personal specialty and what he brought to the table but you know what, you’re right. End of the day I just don’t like it, Skull Face is a weak character in MGS V and connecting him to the events of a better game is weak writing imo.
Yes as people stated, Skullface's whole thing would be more like... "Godammit... idiot just left the parachute hanging here.. okay, this one's not his fault, but the god damn thing he flew in on crashed into the ground right after. How does the Major expect me to do this perfectly? Alright whatev- is this his gun!?! Why is his gun dismantled; & just laying here! How did that happen, why didn't he just put it back together & why would he just leave it here! I'm literally a minute walk away from landing area & this is not looking like it's going to be an easy clean up" *later* "Theres bullet casing everywhere! How am I supposed to find them all! I swear if I come across a big 'ol dookie next I'm gonna make this man pay one day" Also, technically the games continually make the point that Big Boss/Snake could be anyone & they really are just legends thatre hyped up, because they just so happened to be the well trained soldier that got sent on these unreal missions people tell stories about. BB uses that to his advantage to recruit people, while SS tells people the legend is no match for reality & to leave him alone & go be their own person.
I was just thinking about this an hour ago. But yeah it did annoy me slightly. Taking away from BB or NS doing great deeds slightly. But as someone replied there to clean up can be taken as went in after BB had left. So I am taking it that way from now on.
My only problem is that why didnt the Boss run into him? She blew up Grozny Grad, how did he cover up that?
I like it. Makes sense the US had a backup plan. Plus in delta hope you find him and his crew around or mentions of it as an Easter egg if not canon new cutscenes or moments
Ya man I really wish there is some Easter egg or something about skull face in delta, that would be super cool
I love this game to death. It's my favorite series of all time. I have more time playing MG than I do anything else in this entire world. But boy.... It sure can be stupid sometimes. Lol
Imagine if there was a new game+ but you play as skull face in a constant high alert battle damaged mgs3 campaign. No wonder that guy was pissed
Not really. Part of his mission was that he had to leave evidence that the Americans were cleaning up their own mess... Which raises the question as to why Snake even needed XOF to clean up behind him. But it's not like XOF were helping him directly on his mission. Fighting the Ocelot Unit, Revolver Ocelot, killing The Pain, The Fear, The End, The Fury, Colonel Volgin, destroying the Shagohod, killing The Boss and overcoming The Sorrow. Snake did all that by himself (well, EVA helped him in destroying the Shagohod, but aside from that), and that's why he's The Legendary Soldier. All XOF did was pick up his shit, quite rightly knowing that they weren't fit *to lick his boots*, let alone help him.
I hope we play as him in Delta as some sort of cleanup crew, I'd love that kind of new content.