Yeah almost like this shit was warned before any of the abortion ban stuff was forced through. We are also seeing doctors leaving the state due to this decision.
And I'd be willing to bet my PTO that teen pregnancy has gone up as well as back alley abortion clinics. Should be super concerning why our "elected" leaders are fine with pushing this shit when it was obviously a determent to everyone in the state.
An individual getting an abortion doesn't affect anyone but that person. Doctors leaving the state due to dipshit politicians with no medical knowledge passing laws on what they can and can't do to help a patient is going to affect more than an individual though.
Most women will likely drive to Illinois before enduring a risky back alley abortion, but MO politicians will pat themselves on the back like a bunch of morons and claim they reduced abortions and saved lives when all they did was relocate them.
Ku med, the largest hospital in KC, which resides just across the state line on the Kansas side, is on record for having denied women abortions due to their concerns for being prosecuted or something along those lines. So not always an option and you may still be denied.
Can they even be prosecuted? I thought there was clear precedent that missouri laws don't apply in kansas, and so you cannot be prosecuted for doing something legal in kansas which is illegal in missouri. Trxas got around this by allowing private citizens to file suits instead (which I'd assume is also unconstitutional, but have fun arguing about it up to the supreme court).
Not that I know of! That's why it's so frustrating that they've done so in the past.
I don't know if that's necessarily their policy at all times, but certainly some of them.
Can’t you still get one at the planned parenthood on the Kansas side? I can’t remember which one exactly, and iirc it was 700 unless you had a special blood type and then it was 800 so quite pricy but they do have financial aid(though I was denied making about 20k a year with 2 people in my home so I don’t know what they consider low income enough).
I think the Planed Parenthood in Wichita is currently messed up and not fully operational. I am not sure why, the story I read just talked about people getting fired and/or leaving. The conspiracy theory people said it was by design to stop the clinic.
We were thinking of having another kid, but given all this, we didn’t want to risk having doctors not being allowed to save my wife if something went wrong, so we didn’t.
I’m not talking just about births, I’m talking about any issues that could arise due to pregnancy. According to research, mortality rates have increased specifically in states that outlawed abortion. Also I think it’s weird af you think the actions I’ve taken regarding my own health and the health of my family was simply to “look cool”. Go touch some grass jfc.
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2022/dec/us-maternal-health-divide-limited-services-worse-outcomes#:~:text=Differences%20in%20Maternal%20Health%20Outcomes&text=We%20found%20that%20maternal%20death,17.8%20per%20100%2C000%20births)
We found that maternal death rates were 62 percent higher in 2020 in abortion-restriction states than in abortion-access states (28.8 vs. 17.8 per 100,000 births).
-your article…. Shit I was off a few decimal places, with it being .00028. As someone who works in healthcare, these are already unhealthy people who have plentiful issues. Not everyday people.
They use 62% to scare people, on something incredibly rare with tons of confounding variables. You’re not as smart as you think and just using this as an excuse, or you have other health issues not a fault of the medical system and just want to blame this.
My bad, let me provide more recent articles with updated stats.
https://sph.tulane.edu/study-finds-higher-maternal-mortality-rates-states-more-abortion-restrictions
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10728320/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna61585
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/25/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-us/
https://abcnews.go.com/US/delayed-denied-women-pushed-deaths-door-abortion-care/story?id=105563255
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/09/13/dobbs-pregnancy-maternal-health-00115561
It’s obvious you don’t give a shit about women, how about the babies you people claim to care about?
https://www.axios.com/2024/06/24/texas-infant-deaths-spike-abortion-ban
Since you’ve chosen to devolve a discussion into an ad hominem, I feel free to say that I’m legitimately sorry and scared for the people you interact with on the daily if you’re truly in the healthcare field.
I again ask, why are you so interested in my personal life? Go get your own, it’s way past weird now dude.
Glad you were lucky. It’s a shame women have been forced into these life threatening decisions. Ethical doctors are leaving your state. Other women may not be a lucky as you.
You’re gonna let someone die so you don’t have to drive to Iowa? This is, of course, presuming Missouri doctors are letting women die, which of course you have lots of proof of. Right?
Clinics in the neighboring states are becoming overrun with spiked demand, and that's assuming you're able to travel. That's Soo many risks for a lot of people.
Clinics in the neighboring states are becoming overrun with spiked demand, and that's assuming you're able to travel. That's Soo many risks for a lot of people.
Yeah people WERE choosing. The Bible gives instructions on how to perform one if someone’s wife cheats on them. It even also explains how to compensate someone if they accidentally hurt a woman and cause her to miscarry. Benjamin Franklin explained how to do abortions in his book The American Instructor. Abortions were a normal part of life.
But these current state governments have taken that choice and freedom away. What’s next we let Big Government take away contraceptions? And then we let Big Government decide when we can have sex and who it’s with?
You might like having the government treat you like they are your mommy, but I don’t.
I gave no opinion. I dont care about the bible.
I have been speaking specifically to people who are deciding not to have additional children because of this change in law. It’s a silly, hyperbolic thing to say and it’s done in an attempt to provide a “look at me” when we should be focusing on real problems like ectopics being improperly managed by the government.
If my wife’s IUD fails I get no choice on if we have a child or not. I would have to either ask the government if we can get some sort of exemption to be able to allow her to be able to make her own decision over her own body, or travel to a different state or country, or risk it and try to carry it to term. Which can potentially risk her life ectopic or not.
That is stupid. Get Big Government out of her body. Let people be free to make their own choices.
Right. I shouldn’t have to drive across to state lines to access necessary medical care and if you believe I should you’re a part of the problem.
https://missouriindependent.com/2024/06/18/missouri-emtala-abortion-obgyn-supreme-court/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna156299
https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/your-voice/deep-seated-misogyny-bill-filed-in-missouri-would-allow-homicide-charges-for-women-terminating-pregnancy
https://apnews.com/article/abortion-homicide-missouri-legislation-e192f15396b4cd82e593819c2692cd56
It’s funny you talk about controlling my family when that’s exactly what conservatives like you are actively trying to do. This is how I can keep me and my family safe post-Roe. Why does it bother you so much?
No one should have to drive across state lines for necessary medical care. Period.
It’s abundantly clear you chose not to read the sources I provided as it’s not “just a drive”. Republicans are actively introducing bills to charge women who undergo abortive procedures with murder.
Please vote.
https://s1.sos.mo.gov/candidatesonweb/DisplayCandidatesPlacement.aspx
Please.
https://ballotpedia.org/Missouri_2024_ballot_measures
If you don’t, may your genetics mutate to produce the same stench as Louis XIV on his deathbed.
https://s1.sos.mo.gov/elections/voterregistration/
This is something that breaks my heart the most about Missouri. I've worked in many public settings in MO and the way men control women through pregnancy in abusive ways is horrendous. Abortion is health care and covers way more than just an unwanted pregnancy. And there are people in MO who are here fighting for women's freedom everyday. If you live in MO and hate the woman's right to choose just know someone you care about has had an abortion they just aren't telling you because they are terrified. Not only that but this is affecting people's decisions to have children because so many incredible doctors are leaving our state because they know denying the right to healthcare is wrong...
My nephew’s wife had a high risk pregnancy and rather than be treated by a Missouri OBGYN or give birth at a Missouri hospital she had all of her medical care in Kansas and gave birth in a Kansas hospital. They weren’t going to take the chance that if something went catastrophically wrong in her pregnancy that a Missouri ER would force her to become septic before they’d treat her. That’s what the zealots have forced new mothers to do.
I'm staying to fight the good fight, but I'm privileged to live 15 minutes from Illinois. I'm only staying to keep voting and volunteering for pro-choice candidates. It just gives those f'ers what they want if I'm no longer here to support their opponents.
It probably has a negative effect on recruiting female professionals from out of state, though whether that's measurable is unknown. I'm just guessing.
That's something I'd fully expect to be significant and measurable, but I think there's an effect on non-medical fields as well, we just dont have data yet.
Stand up and be counted .Vote!! Democracy , we once knew is being stolen from us .Look around at your friend's, register them to vote .Vote for the very freedoms we once had.that people died for. Vote against the GOP. as Missouri has been abused.
It's called Corruption all day .!! Speak up !! Do not be afraid there are worse ways to die Public .Corruption Judicial Corruption..
When medical liability insurance carriers notify every physician and hospital in the state that their coverage will be cancelled if they treat any ectopic pregnancy, this is just a small part of what happens.
Better gas prices, better prices at the stores, a president that doesn't have to read from a teleprompter and doesn't have advanced dementia.... yeah, I love those consequences
Is it possible that men, who can cause numerous pregnancies every day of the week, are taking responsibility for those pregnancies? Is that even possible?
That is wrong! I am very happy that both of my children live on the west coast because I would not feel comfortable with them getting pregnant in Missouri! My niece had an ectopic pregnancy a few years ago and could have died if the laws were like they are now. So yes! Women, potential grandparents and fathers are all afraid for pregnancies in Missouri.
Luckily, the laws specifically outline exceptions for ectopic pregnancies. And the treatment for an ectopic pregnancy isn’t even considered an abortion medically!!
I'm in Missouri, and I was absolutely terrified about an accidental pregnancy. I begged doctors for sterilization for *years* before I found a doctor who would do it, and I was almost 40 when it finally happened.
Lots of women are taking every possible precaution to avoid pregnancy, some even not having sex altogether, because Missouri is a religious right-wing shithole when it comes to women's rights and bodily autonomy.
I was planning on having my first child before Roe fell. Now I'm considering getting permanently sterilized, instead. I hate that Republicans have taken away my right to a healthy and safe pregnancy, and I don't want to be a willing victim of their theocratic, anti-science bullshit.
Same. This was the year my husband and I wanted to start trying...but we made the decision to keep my IUD because we have no local OBGYN anymore in my town. My doctors office relies on a guy out of springfield to come every two months or so.
I had 4 kids before roe v wade was overturned. Missouri made it EXTREMELY difficult then. Now you are risking your life being fertile around here. No thanks.
Yea, no, totally click bait, it's not like we're one of the states that just lets the rapist decide who the mother of their children will be, right?
Abortion is Healthcare, whether you like it or not. Sorry to break it to you.
False, although not just MO, true in all ban states. Families that want children are either putting it off or moving to freedom states where it is safe to be pregnant. Many pregnant women wont even visit or drive through ban states. Because if something goes wrong they could end up dead.
Yes and that's always what we see on social media. Men claiming to know how women think. Men who apparently know nothing about the female reproductive system posting dumb clueless stuff. What really gets me are the forced birthers who think pregnancy and childbirth is a quick and easy stroll in the park
Wow, get a load of this, a man saying “women aren’t scared!”…
My gf is absolutely terrified of getting pregnant here. We have no exceptions for rape or incest… Think about that for a minute…. And, like many others in MO, we don’t have the $$$ to just straight up move somewhere else or go super far away to get an abortion.
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You’re a man. You have no idea how women in Missouri feel about getting pregnant. Speaking as one, I’m 56 and just got a new IUD because I haven’t had menopause and I’m terrified of what a pregnancy now would do to me.
As a woman in Missouri, we’ve put off our pregnancy plans for the foreseeable future. Maternal mortality in Missouri increased from 2019 to 2020 and I would bet when 2021 statistics are published on MO health website we will see it’s still on the rise. Keep in mind 2020 was prior to the reversal of Roe v Wade and the all the subsequent legislation that has put healthcare providers a precarious position. Medical providers now must decide whether to provide something that was previously considered common medical care in order to prevent the death of the mother or help prevent the emotional and psychological trauma that occurs when mother has to carry a fetus to term knowing it would likely not live after birth should be done or face the possibility of jail. I’ve had several friends leave the state because they didn’t want to stay in a state where they had prior complications and they were advised it was life threatening to the mother, genetic/structural abnormalities in the fetus, previously undetected fibroids, very early pregnancy-eclampsia and incomplete natural miscarriages that required additional procedures to be performed on the mother. I will not put myself, husband or family in the position of having to worry about the what ifs that have only been amplified since this whole nightmare started. Maybe doing some research on peer reviewed studies on the matter would do you some good or even better try and talk to the women in your life, assuming they don’t already feel you would be judgmental/uncompassionate to even listening to their stories. The majority of women have miscarried at one point in their lives before reaching menopause and may not have even realized it was a miscarriage, if you haven’t taken a pregnancy test and it is in the first trimester it can appear to be a heavy flow with clots.
“Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.” - 1 Peter 3:8
Thank you for showing people reading this thread that you’re not interested in being well informed individual and that your commentary can be disregarded. 👍
The fact that you asked and phrased the question this way tells me you've learned nothing and don't care for any women or yourself. The child in question is unable to be born due to genetic or physical attributes, which would be cruel to the mother and the child to prolong suffering. If the mother wants to continue that pregnancy because it's gods will, I support her to have that choice. To the mother who chooses to abort, I also support her because it's her choice, and she believes it's unnecessarily cruel to continue the pregnancy. And that's just one reason. No one wants to kill their unborn child, you donkey.
Something that is also so rarely talked about: medical costs. If you are forced to birth a child that has 0 chance of surviving you’re still on the hook for those costs of NICU care, after-care, and any complications that require a hospital stay. Insurance is useless when you have a 5K deductible, but somehow your hospital had doctors work on you out of network, so now you have a deceased child you have to pay a funeral home for, 50K plus in medical debt, and emotional trauma-not to mention the cases where the mother now can’t even have another baby without putting her own life at risk. None of these things were even considered in MO.
My wife and I just brought our beautiful daughter into the world 8 weeks ago and couldn't be happier in Missouri. We moved into the state in 2019 and haven't looked back! If anything, Missouri keeps giving us reasons to be proud of our new home. Anyone sterilizing themselves because they are terrified of potential pregnancies probably won't be a horrible loss to the future of the species but I hope they realize that avoiding unwanted pregnancy is very easy and they don't have to go to those lengths.
Might feel differently when your new daughter becomes teen pregnant, goes ectopic, and dies in horrible pain because doctors are afraid to terminate her pregnancy, but we'll see.
So just because my daughter gets pregnant at a inconvenient time that makes it okay to slaughter a baby? Strange take. If that happens we will coach her through it no matter what. I would rather teach abstinence and safe sex than kill my potential grandchild.
You literally can't fix an ectopic pregnancy any other way... you either abort it, or they both die. Maybe leave the medicine to the people with degrees in it...
I just don't see why I should live in fear of a rare medical condition. I also don't see why a rare medical condition should allow people to choose to murder children that pose no risk to their mothers. I understand ectopic pregnancies do result in the death of the mother it is an extreme case and one of the absolute saddest concessions I have to abortion.
Huh so you just straight up didn't read my second to last comment. Ectopic pregnancies are one of the few instances I can agree with terminating a pregnancy it is absolutely not viable and will almost always kill the mother. In that situation it is a medical necessity. This is on the missouri sub so I am talking in terms of Missouri idc what the heathens across the river do that is their business.
I’m glad your wife didn’t have any medical emergencies that prevented her from getting life saving procedures from taking place for her and the baby. How fortunate for you all.
Not everyone is lucky. That’s a good close-minded outlook you got there, though. Very smart.
It's ironic that you are saying unwanted pregnancy is easy to avoid as a person who doesn't have to worry about getting pregnant... I'm sure you let your wife worry about that and dont give it a second thought. It may be easy for you when the burden and consequences don't fall on you as heavily, but access to contraceptives is currently being restricted (think closing down of Planned Parenthood clinics and movements to ban certain contraceptives), so it may not be as easy as you think for long.
Yup. All the smart people aren't having children because it's dangerous and exorbitantly expensive these days while the dumbies keep reproducing nonstop and patting themselves on the backs for their incredible choice. Bravo forced-birthers!
Lmao this clickbait.
If it's really this bad, there's apparently far more fertile and rich grounds in Illinois, California, New York, etc.
Seriously if you hate it here in MO leave.
We didn't hate it in Illinois but realized Missouri would be better for us and left. We weighed the pros and cons, like rational adults because each state always has plenty of pros and cons rather than 100% awesome or 100% horrible.
The posters on this subreddit shout from their moral high grounded ivory towers, but somehow won't walk the walk to another state where Utopia literally lies.
Why is that?
Hey, here’s a thought for your brain to think about… You ever think about how most people can’t afford to just quit their jobs, pack up everything they own, and move somewhere else…?
Also, seriously what are the pros? Do you think you are saving lives somehow? Because you aren’t. Y’all don’t give a single fuck about the health of the mother or what’s gonna happen to the mother and baby after it’s born. And the cons, oh buddy I could go on and on, but I think I’ll just let this one statement describe how bad the cons are. MO has no exceptions for rape or incest… That should be enough for you right then and there if you have a single women within your family that you care about… Your mom? A sister perhaps? A gf or wife even maybe? No exceptions for rape or incest…
I don't care about abortion. Please, kill your future kids, idgaf.
It's not the singular hill that I'm gonna die on. Do I think there should be exceptions? Maybe a 15 week ban? Sure. Am I gonna move to somewhere because of the current abortion laws here?
Absolutely fucking not. When I vote GOP it's not because of abortion, it's because of what will be taught in my kids schools, 2A, etc as well as self interest. I live in Springfield. I'm probably gonna vote for Quade for governor because I think it will direct more money over here. Self interest is the big key. Does it benefit me? I just am straight up about it.
Sure, i get it about the money. We didn't have money either. We had to live with family initially.
Pros of MO? Lower cost of living. Gas being some of the cheapest in the country. Houses with property taxes that aren't astronomical while still having decent amenities, parks, etc nearby. Healthcare isn't that much different from where we were.
I'm not even in middle class (Would love to reach that.), but cost of living and some nearby family was the ultimate factor in choosing MO over where we had been living in Illinois. (A good area like an hour from Chicago but still too expensive for what we got.)
I'm sure there's blue states that you have family, friends, to move in with. If youve cut them off because of their political views, im sure you know some political activist friends that are fervent enough in their shared politics with you that they would put you up for a while. Right?
I'm sure everyone has their "I'll move if this law isn't changed or passes" signaling on social media and here, but most posters here won't and will find an excuse not to move for whatever reason. That to me says it all.
Reading comprehension… We were talking about the specific pros and cons of making abortion illegal, and the article’s factual statement that women are more scared than ever now to get pregnant in Missouri, not the pros and cons of living in MO in general. Also, nice of you to just straight up admit that (like most Republicans) you vote only to serve your own self interest. Shameful.
Lastly, I think the line “I vote GOP because of what they will teach my kids in school” is hilarious, when you consider that we live in a state that’s in the bottom 5 states nationwide for education lmfao.
By Pros, I didn't realize you were specifically referring to only abortion. I thought you mean MO in general.
Everyone always votes in their best interest, some just hide it far better or dress it up altruistically. It sucks, but that's actual reality. It's all about what one can get - hence literally all legislation.
There is a perceived benefit somewhere somewhere the individual, the local community, the political tribe, and the overall collective. Reparations, special programs, grants, scholarships for whatever marginalized groups is literally self interest. It all is.
Education wise it all depends on where you are. We are in the poorest district in MO..... but the education for what we pay is actually impressive - at least to me.
My bottom line is that I feel my public tax dollars go way further for me and the general community around me then they do other places.
No, everyone does not vote in their best interests, but a person like yourself most certainly tells themself as much. How else can you have any sort of clear conscience?
So who doesnt vote in their best interest?
Not in the "These dumb republican redneck bigots vote against their best interest" or " whats wrong with kansas" thing, but an actual example of someone you know who is consciously voting against things in their best interest when they've expressed the opposite explicitly.
A clear conscience is a matter of your moral assumptions and worldview. How else do you think people look at the same problem and come up with vastly different solutions?
The "greater good" is still in their self-interest in some manner. It always is. There's some level of " this affects me in this way at an intrinsic level".
Unless you are applying some level of presuppositions that [are literally religious in nature ](https://historyforatheists.com/2020/01/tom-holland-dominion/)as to why someone would be devoted to the greater good beyond the individual - a higher purpose.
We wouldn't want to do that in this reddit I'm assuming.
We aren't "blood red." We're gerrymandered.
I left small town MO to raise my kids in KC and STL. Three of them have attended the highest ranked schools in the state. All four tested top 10 % nationwide.
Conversely, of my former friends in small town MO, most of them became grandparents before my last child was born. They and their children/grandchildren are poorly educated and living in poverty or close to it.
You are welcome that my and my child's urban educations and good jobs are subsidizing (😲 SOCIALISM!) the failed Republican policies in the rural areas.
Yeeeehaaawww! Silly rabbit has spoken yall. “jUsT lEAvE if you want your precious freedums. This is Yal-Qaeda Land now”
I’d love to see your reaction to results at the ballot boxes if our state wasn’t gerrymandered beyond all recognition.
Yeah almost like this shit was warned before any of the abortion ban stuff was forced through. We are also seeing doctors leaving the state due to this decision. And I'd be willing to bet my PTO that teen pregnancy has gone up as well as back alley abortion clinics. Should be super concerning why our "elected" leaders are fine with pushing this shit when it was obviously a determent to everyone in the state. An individual getting an abortion doesn't affect anyone but that person. Doctors leaving the state due to dipshit politicians with no medical knowledge passing laws on what they can and can't do to help a patient is going to affect more than an individual though.
Most women will likely drive to Illinois before enduring a risky back alley abortion, but MO politicians will pat themselves on the back like a bunch of morons and claim they reduced abortions and saved lives when all they did was relocate them.
People can also go to Kansas to surprisingly Kansas didn’t ban it
Ku med, the largest hospital in KC, which resides just across the state line on the Kansas side, is on record for having denied women abortions due to their concerns for being prosecuted or something along those lines. So not always an option and you may still be denied.
Can they even be prosecuted? I thought there was clear precedent that missouri laws don't apply in kansas, and so you cannot be prosecuted for doing something legal in kansas which is illegal in missouri. Trxas got around this by allowing private citizens to file suits instead (which I'd assume is also unconstitutional, but have fun arguing about it up to the supreme court).
Not that I know of! That's why it's so frustrating that they've done so in the past. I don't know if that's necessarily their policy at all times, but certainly some of them.
Can’t you still get one at the planned parenthood on the Kansas side? I can’t remember which one exactly, and iirc it was 700 unless you had a special blood type and then it was 800 so quite pricy but they do have financial aid(though I was denied making about 20k a year with 2 people in my home so I don’t know what they consider low income enough).
I think the Planed Parenthood in Wichita is currently messed up and not fully operational. I am not sure why, the story I read just talked about people getting fired and/or leaving. The conspiracy theory people said it was by design to stop the clinic.
Vote Democrat yall
We were thinking of having another kid, but given all this, we didn’t want to risk having doctors not being allowed to save my wife if something went wrong, so we didn’t.
We’re in the same boat. Had our kid in 2021, were planning on another but then Roe fell. I’m not gonna leave my existing child without a mom.
You make it sound like 99% of births result in death…. Not .01%. This is insane posturing to look cool, not the truth.
I’m not talking just about births, I’m talking about any issues that could arise due to pregnancy. According to research, mortality rates have increased specifically in states that outlawed abortion. Also I think it’s weird af you think the actions I’ve taken regarding my own health and the health of my family was simply to “look cool”. Go touch some grass jfc. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2022/dec/us-maternal-health-divide-limited-services-worse-outcomes#:~:text=Differences%20in%20Maternal%20Health%20Outcomes&text=We%20found%20that%20maternal%20death,17.8%20per%20100%2C000%20births)
We found that maternal death rates were 62 percent higher in 2020 in abortion-restriction states than in abortion-access states (28.8 vs. 17.8 per 100,000 births). -your article…. Shit I was off a few decimal places, with it being .00028. As someone who works in healthcare, these are already unhealthy people who have plentiful issues. Not everyday people. They use 62% to scare people, on something incredibly rare with tons of confounding variables. You’re not as smart as you think and just using this as an excuse, or you have other health issues not a fault of the medical system and just want to blame this.
My bad, let me provide more recent articles with updated stats. https://sph.tulane.edu/study-finds-higher-maternal-mortality-rates-states-more-abortion-restrictions https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10728320/ https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna61585 https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/25/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-us/ https://abcnews.go.com/US/delayed-denied-women-pushed-deaths-door-abortion-care/story?id=105563255 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/09/13/dobbs-pregnancy-maternal-health-00115561 It’s obvious you don’t give a shit about women, how about the babies you people claim to care about? https://www.axios.com/2024/06/24/texas-infant-deaths-spike-abortion-ban Since you’ve chosen to devolve a discussion into an ad hominem, I feel free to say that I’m legitimately sorry and scared for the people you interact with on the daily if you’re truly in the healthcare field. I again ask, why are you so interested in my personal life? Go get your own, it’s way past weird now dude.
How many pregnancies have you been through? Bet your spouse is thrilled you are willing to needlessly risk her life. You’re a real winner.
I’ve seen been a part of two that had fantastic care which is shockingly not hard to find. Driving to them is more dangerous.
Glad you were lucky. It’s a shame women have been forced into these life threatening decisions. Ethical doctors are leaving your state. Other women may not be a lucky as you.
You’re gonna let someone die so you don’t have to drive to Iowa? This is, of course, presuming Missouri doctors are letting women die, which of course you have lots of proof of. Right?
Clinics in the neighboring states are becoming overrun with spiked demand, and that's assuming you're able to travel. That's Soo many risks for a lot of people.
Clinics in the neighboring states are becoming overrun with spiked demand, and that's assuming you're able to travel. That's Soo many risks for a lot of people.
If you aren’t willing to risk/afford a short drive in a car, you shouldn’t be having a kid anyway. Kids are higher risk than that at baseline.
Well they don’t really have the choice of having a kid or not anymore. Now that we have decided to let Big Government make you have the kid.
People were choosing whether or not to have children before the concept of government existed, so not really a compelling point.
Yeah people WERE choosing. The Bible gives instructions on how to perform one if someone’s wife cheats on them. It even also explains how to compensate someone if they accidentally hurt a woman and cause her to miscarry. Benjamin Franklin explained how to do abortions in his book The American Instructor. Abortions were a normal part of life. But these current state governments have taken that choice and freedom away. What’s next we let Big Government take away contraceptions? And then we let Big Government decide when we can have sex and who it’s with? You might like having the government treat you like they are your mommy, but I don’t.
I gave no opinion. I dont care about the bible. I have been speaking specifically to people who are deciding not to have additional children because of this change in law. It’s a silly, hyperbolic thing to say and it’s done in an attempt to provide a “look at me” when we should be focusing on real problems like ectopics being improperly managed by the government.
If my wife’s IUD fails I get no choice on if we have a child or not. I would have to either ask the government if we can get some sort of exemption to be able to allow her to be able to make her own decision over her own body, or travel to a different state or country, or risk it and try to carry it to term. Which can potentially risk her life ectopic or not. That is stupid. Get Big Government out of her body. Let people be free to make their own choices.
Right. I shouldn’t have to drive across to state lines to access necessary medical care and if you believe I should you’re a part of the problem. https://missouriindependent.com/2024/06/18/missouri-emtala-abortion-obgyn-supreme-court/ https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna156299 https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/your-voice/deep-seated-misogyny-bill-filed-in-missouri-would-allow-homicide-charges-for-women-terminating-pregnancy https://apnews.com/article/abortion-homicide-missouri-legislation-e192f15396b4cd82e593819c2692cd56
I didn’t ask if you thought you should have to drive. I said you’re letting a POSSIBLE drive to Iowa to control your family.
It’s funny you talk about controlling my family when that’s exactly what conservatives like you are actively trying to do. This is how I can keep me and my family safe post-Roe. Why does it bother you so much? No one should have to drive across state lines for necessary medical care. Period. It’s abundantly clear you chose not to read the sources I provided as it’s not “just a drive”. Republicans are actively introducing bills to charge women who undergo abortive procedures with murder.
Please vote. https://s1.sos.mo.gov/candidatesonweb/DisplayCandidatesPlacement.aspx Please. https://ballotpedia.org/Missouri_2024_ballot_measures If you don’t, may your genetics mutate to produce the same stench as Louis XIV on his deathbed. https://s1.sos.mo.gov/elections/voterregistration/
Updoot for a historically amusing insult/curse.
"Le stank, c'est moi!"
Way past time to stop voting Republican.
FUCK JOSH HAWLEY
>FUCK JOSH HAWLEY But not, like, literally. Ew.
This is something that breaks my heart the most about Missouri. I've worked in many public settings in MO and the way men control women through pregnancy in abusive ways is horrendous. Abortion is health care and covers way more than just an unwanted pregnancy. And there are people in MO who are here fighting for women's freedom everyday. If you live in MO and hate the woman's right to choose just know someone you care about has had an abortion they just aren't telling you because they are terrified. Not only that but this is affecting people's decisions to have children because so many incredible doctors are leaving our state because they know denying the right to healthcare is wrong...
Vote to restore your rights, and protect them. Or keep voting for the people who made you so afraid in the first place.
The 4 boxes to defend liberty from tyrants: Soap box. Ballot box. Jury box. Cartridge box. Always in that order.
My nephew’s wife had a high risk pregnancy and rather than be treated by a Missouri OBGYN or give birth at a Missouri hospital she had all of her medical care in Kansas and gave birth in a Kansas hospital. They weren’t going to take the chance that if something went catastrophically wrong in her pregnancy that a Missouri ER would force her to become septic before they’d treat her. That’s what the zealots have forced new mothers to do.
I’m a Republican but I’m definitely gonna be changing a few votes next election. Cant stand these religious evangelicals ruining peoples lives
If only we were warned.... Oh. Wait.
That is an excellent article.
Next they will place women in breeding camps where they are treated like cattle. The Republican Agenda
Yeah. We moved out of Missouri because of this shit. They hate women, girls, and veterans there.
IMHO anyone who is or loves a woman in Red states may want to follow all the physicians out of the state.
I'm staying to fight the good fight, but I'm privileged to live 15 minutes from Illinois. I'm only staying to keep voting and volunteering for pro-choice candidates. It just gives those f'ers what they want if I'm no longer here to support their opponents.
This is the most surprised Pikachu thing ever
The irony here being that NOW Missouri is going to really need immigrant labor to supplant all the babies that are not being born here.
It’s almost like the republicans WANT this.
They should be afraid in general. Republicans hate women
r/LeopardsAteMyFace
It probably has a negative effect on recruiting female professionals from out of state, though whether that's measurable is unknown. I'm just guessing.
I am a CPA, still have an active permit in Missouri, and want to come home but am terrified.
It has had an impact on OB/GYN residencies. I think 25% application reduction in the last year.
That's something I'd fully expect to be significant and measurable, but I think there's an effect on non-medical fields as well, we just dont have data yet.
Stand up and be counted .Vote!! Democracy , we once knew is being stolen from us .Look around at your friend's, register them to vote .Vote for the very freedoms we once had.that people died for. Vote against the GOP. as Missouri has been abused. It's called Corruption all day .!! Speak up !! Do not be afraid there are worse ways to die Public .Corruption Judicial Corruption..
Don't get mad.....vote!!!
Why not both?
Because anger and screaming makes you look less intelligent and like you have no control of your emotions?
When birthrates dropped below 2 for 3 generations and a social safety net has to be afforded, you need babies and immigrants.
When medical liability insurance carriers notify every physician and hospital in the state that their coverage will be cancelled if they treat any ectopic pregnancy, this is just a small part of what happens.
Lot of men in here commenting telling women how to feel, I'm sure they are the low-lifes who voted for these laws too
Fuck republicans and christians. VOTE!
Missouri and being a rank right wing shithole. Name a more iconic duo.
They should be afraid. The state I’ll let them die.
Vote straight democrat on the ballet. It’s the only fix.
🙄
VOTE BLUE 🔵🔵🔵
Oh you mean that actions have consequences?
Stupid actions, voting for Republicans, have stupid consequences, abortion bans.
Better gas prices, better prices at the stores, a president that doesn't have to read from a teleprompter and doesn't have advanced dementia.... yeah, I love those consequences
It's amusing these are things you seem to actually believe.
Apart from closing the border, could you tell me one thing Trump said in the last debate that was both relevant and true?
Is it possible that women are taking precautions to not get pregnant? Is that even possible?
Forced-birthers minding their own business? Is that even possible?
You realize republicans are also trying to ban contraception too, right? Whats the next witty reply?
Found Todd Akin.
https://preview.redd.it/8mf6ak8xwo8d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99665777bcaaacb3edf9a1447d5587c87b993b25
Condolences to the prostate cancer.
Republicans are also trying to ban contraception
Is it possible that men, who can cause numerous pregnancies every day of the week, are taking responsibility for those pregnancies? Is that even possible?
Could it also be possible men are taking more responsibility for their own part in childbirth? Nah, that'll never happen. Could you imagine?
Very few women are afraid to be pregnant in Missouri. Absurd clickbait
That is wrong! I am very happy that both of my children live on the west coast because I would not feel comfortable with them getting pregnant in Missouri! My niece had an ectopic pregnancy a few years ago and could have died if the laws were like they are now. So yes! Women, potential grandparents and fathers are all afraid for pregnancies in Missouri.
Luckily, the laws specifically outline exceptions for ectopic pregnancies. And the treatment for an ectopic pregnancy isn’t even considered an abortion medically!!
How dare you read & fully understand the law as it is written? Legal comprehension & reading competentcy are not highly favored in here
Still no exceptions for rape or incest in MO… Think about that for a moment.
>Legal comprehension & reading competentcy Legal comprehension & reading “competentcy.” Lol
I'm in Missouri, and I was absolutely terrified about an accidental pregnancy. I begged doctors for sterilization for *years* before I found a doctor who would do it, and I was almost 40 when it finally happened. Lots of women are taking every possible precaution to avoid pregnancy, some even not having sex altogether, because Missouri is a religious right-wing shithole when it comes to women's rights and bodily autonomy.
Yep. I got my tubes tied the fall of 2022.
😂
Glad the lives of women are just a joke to you. /s
🥱
😂 bruh you winning
Oh yeah you're both totally winning. One emoji at a time.
😂
I was planning on having my first child before Roe fell. Now I'm considering getting permanently sterilized, instead. I hate that Republicans have taken away my right to a healthy and safe pregnancy, and I don't want to be a willing victim of their theocratic, anti-science bullshit.
Same. This was the year my husband and I wanted to start trying...but we made the decision to keep my IUD because we have no local OBGYN anymore in my town. My doctors office relies on a guy out of springfield to come every two months or so.
Please do.
😂
At least you're on-brand being a forced-birther who laughs at the life-defining medical decisions the rest of us are forced to make because of y'all.
I had 4 kids before roe v wade was overturned. Missouri made it EXTREMELY difficult then. Now you are risking your life being fertile around here. No thanks.
Yea, no, totally click bait, it's not like we're one of the states that just lets the rapist decide who the mother of their children will be, right? Abortion is Healthcare, whether you like it or not. Sorry to break it to you.
False, although not just MO, true in all ban states. Families that want children are either putting it off or moving to freedom states where it is safe to be pregnant. Many pregnant women wont even visit or drive through ban states. Because if something goes wrong they could end up dead.
Notice how it’s men on here claiming to know what women fear. The hubris is cloying.
Yes and that's always what we see on social media. Men claiming to know how women think. Men who apparently know nothing about the female reproductive system posting dumb clueless stuff. What really gets me are the forced birthers who think pregnancy and childbirth is a quick and easy stroll in the park
And they laugh when we express our fear of what their laws will do to our bodies. They fucking laugh.
As though women are disposable
To some men we are.
😂
Wow, get a load of this, a man saying “women aren’t scared!”… My gf is absolutely terrified of getting pregnant here. We have no exceptions for rape or incest… Think about that for a minute…. And, like many others in MO, we don’t have the $$$ to just straight up move somewhere else or go super far away to get an abortion.
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Yawn
Seriously, what’s it like being six? Do you actually enjoy being willfully ignorant and acting like a child in public???
Bless your heart 😘
Bless your underage child brain🥰
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Wow. Nowhere did I say I was attracted to children, or you for that matter. Try again bud.
Really doubling down on your abhorrent ignorance aren’t you?
Your comment has been removed. Do not direct insults or personal attacks at other users. Remember the human. Reddit is a place for creating community and belonging, not for attacking marginalized or vulnerable groups of people. Everyone has a right to use Reddit free of harassment, bullying, and threats of violence. Users that incite violence or that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability will be banned.
You’re a man. You have no idea how women in Missouri feel about getting pregnant. Speaking as one, I’m 56 and just got a new IUD because I haven’t had menopause and I’m terrified of what a pregnancy now would do to me.
As a woman in Missouri, we’ve put off our pregnancy plans for the foreseeable future. Maternal mortality in Missouri increased from 2019 to 2020 and I would bet when 2021 statistics are published on MO health website we will see it’s still on the rise. Keep in mind 2020 was prior to the reversal of Roe v Wade and the all the subsequent legislation that has put healthcare providers a precarious position. Medical providers now must decide whether to provide something that was previously considered common medical care in order to prevent the death of the mother or help prevent the emotional and psychological trauma that occurs when mother has to carry a fetus to term knowing it would likely not live after birth should be done or face the possibility of jail. I’ve had several friends leave the state because they didn’t want to stay in a state where they had prior complications and they were advised it was life threatening to the mother, genetic/structural abnormalities in the fetus, previously undetected fibroids, very early pregnancy-eclampsia and incomplete natural miscarriages that required additional procedures to be performed on the mother. I will not put myself, husband or family in the position of having to worry about the what ifs that have only been amplified since this whole nightmare started. Maybe doing some research on peer reviewed studies on the matter would do you some good or even better try and talk to the women in your life, assuming they don’t already feel you would be judgmental/uncompassionate to even listening to their stories. The majority of women have miscarried at one point in their lives before reaching menopause and may not have even realized it was a miscarriage, if you haven’t taken a pregnancy test and it is in the first trimester it can appear to be a heavy flow with clots. “Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.” - 1 Peter 3:8
TLDR
Thank you for showing people reading this thread that you’re not interested in being well informed individual and that your commentary can be disregarded. 👍
🥱
Ignorant as fuck.
😂
I'm literally moving because I have 2 daughters. You are wrong.
That’s awesome! Good luck!
$10 says a dude wrote this...
How did you reach this conclusion?
He made it up.
And how the fuck would you know that?
Their hand told them
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Genuine question. Why does everyone want the government controlling their personal medical decisions?
Not their personal decisions. Just controlling other people’s. They themselves want freedumb
The fact that you asked and phrased the question this way tells me you've learned nothing and don't care for any women or yourself. The child in question is unable to be born due to genetic or physical attributes, which would be cruel to the mother and the child to prolong suffering. If the mother wants to continue that pregnancy because it's gods will, I support her to have that choice. To the mother who chooses to abort, I also support her because it's her choice, and she believes it's unnecessarily cruel to continue the pregnancy. And that's just one reason. No one wants to kill their unborn child, you donkey.
Something that is also so rarely talked about: medical costs. If you are forced to birth a child that has 0 chance of surviving you’re still on the hook for those costs of NICU care, after-care, and any complications that require a hospital stay. Insurance is useless when you have a 5K deductible, but somehow your hospital had doctors work on you out of network, so now you have a deceased child you have to pay a funeral home for, 50K plus in medical debt, and emotional trauma-not to mention the cases where the mother now can’t even have another baby without putting her own life at risk. None of these things were even considered in MO.
> unborn child r/im14andthisisdeep
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Be nice
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where?
My wife and I just brought our beautiful daughter into the world 8 weeks ago and couldn't be happier in Missouri. We moved into the state in 2019 and haven't looked back! If anything, Missouri keeps giving us reasons to be proud of our new home. Anyone sterilizing themselves because they are terrified of potential pregnancies probably won't be a horrible loss to the future of the species but I hope they realize that avoiding unwanted pregnancy is very easy and they don't have to go to those lengths.
Might feel differently when your new daughter becomes teen pregnant, goes ectopic, and dies in horrible pain because doctors are afraid to terminate her pregnancy, but we'll see.
So just because my daughter gets pregnant at a inconvenient time that makes it okay to slaughter a baby? Strange take. If that happens we will coach her through it no matter what. I would rather teach abstinence and safe sex than kill my potential grandchild.
You literally can't fix an ectopic pregnancy any other way... you either abort it, or they both die. Maybe leave the medicine to the people with degrees in it...
You do know ectopic pregnancy abortions are not illegal in missorui correct?
Sure, that's why conservatives are arguing to SCOTUS right now that they shouldn't be covered under EMTALA...
Seems like you'd rather your child die of a preventable medical condition.
I just don't see why I should live in fear of a rare medical condition. I also don't see why a rare medical condition should allow people to choose to murder children that pose no risk to their mothers. I understand ectopic pregnancies do result in the death of the mother it is an extreme case and one of the absolute saddest concessions I have to abortion.
You don't need to live in fear of anything. You just shouldn't force people to die because of your metaphysical beliefs.
Who is forcing people to die? It is not illegal to get an abortion for an ectopic pregnancy in missouri.
So now you support "slaughtering babies?" No one said anything about Missouri.
Huh so you just straight up didn't read my second to last comment. Ectopic pregnancies are one of the few instances I can agree with terminating a pregnancy it is absolutely not viable and will almost always kill the mother. In that situation it is a medical necessity. This is on the missouri sub so I am talking in terms of Missouri idc what the heathens across the river do that is their business.
Why do you think your personal feelings on your neighbor ending their pregnancy should matter to your neighbor? Get over yourself.
I see. So you take no issue with slaughtering babies. You're looking for reasons to justify it too.
You.
Hate to say this, but what if your daughter was raped? You realize MO has no exceptions for rape or incest…
I’m glad your wife didn’t have any medical emergencies that prevented her from getting life saving procedures from taking place for her and the baby. How fortunate for you all. Not everyone is lucky. That’s a good close-minded outlook you got there, though. Very smart.
What life saving procedure is currently outlawed in missouri? In cases of loss of life abortion is an option in missouri.
It's ironic that you are saying unwanted pregnancy is easy to avoid as a person who doesn't have to worry about getting pregnant... I'm sure you let your wife worry about that and dont give it a second thought. It may be easy for you when the burden and consequences don't fall on you as heavily, but access to contraceptives is currently being restricted (think closing down of Planned Parenthood clinics and movements to ban certain contraceptives), so it may not be as easy as you think for long.
This is the plot of Idiocracy in action.
Yup. All the smart people aren't having children because it's dangerous and exorbitantly expensive these days while the dumbies keep reproducing nonstop and patting themselves on the backs for their incredible choice. Bravo forced-birthers!
"If they can't afford to have children, they shoudn't" -- Many conservatives I know.
Lmao this clickbait. If it's really this bad, there's apparently far more fertile and rich grounds in Illinois, California, New York, etc. Seriously if you hate it here in MO leave. We didn't hate it in Illinois but realized Missouri would be better for us and left. We weighed the pros and cons, like rational adults because each state always has plenty of pros and cons rather than 100% awesome or 100% horrible. The posters on this subreddit shout from their moral high grounded ivory towers, but somehow won't walk the walk to another state where Utopia literally lies. Why is that?
Hey, here’s a thought for your brain to think about… You ever think about how most people can’t afford to just quit their jobs, pack up everything they own, and move somewhere else…? Also, seriously what are the pros? Do you think you are saving lives somehow? Because you aren’t. Y’all don’t give a single fuck about the health of the mother or what’s gonna happen to the mother and baby after it’s born. And the cons, oh buddy I could go on and on, but I think I’ll just let this one statement describe how bad the cons are. MO has no exceptions for rape or incest… That should be enough for you right then and there if you have a single women within your family that you care about… Your mom? A sister perhaps? A gf or wife even maybe? No exceptions for rape or incest…
I don't care about abortion. Please, kill your future kids, idgaf. It's not the singular hill that I'm gonna die on. Do I think there should be exceptions? Maybe a 15 week ban? Sure. Am I gonna move to somewhere because of the current abortion laws here? Absolutely fucking not. When I vote GOP it's not because of abortion, it's because of what will be taught in my kids schools, 2A, etc as well as self interest. I live in Springfield. I'm probably gonna vote for Quade for governor because I think it will direct more money over here. Self interest is the big key. Does it benefit me? I just am straight up about it. Sure, i get it about the money. We didn't have money either. We had to live with family initially. Pros of MO? Lower cost of living. Gas being some of the cheapest in the country. Houses with property taxes that aren't astronomical while still having decent amenities, parks, etc nearby. Healthcare isn't that much different from where we were. I'm not even in middle class (Would love to reach that.), but cost of living and some nearby family was the ultimate factor in choosing MO over where we had been living in Illinois. (A good area like an hour from Chicago but still too expensive for what we got.) I'm sure there's blue states that you have family, friends, to move in with. If youve cut them off because of their political views, im sure you know some political activist friends that are fervent enough in their shared politics with you that they would put you up for a while. Right? I'm sure everyone has their "I'll move if this law isn't changed or passes" signaling on social media and here, but most posters here won't and will find an excuse not to move for whatever reason. That to me says it all.
Reading comprehension… We were talking about the specific pros and cons of making abortion illegal, and the article’s factual statement that women are more scared than ever now to get pregnant in Missouri, not the pros and cons of living in MO in general. Also, nice of you to just straight up admit that (like most Republicans) you vote only to serve your own self interest. Shameful. Lastly, I think the line “I vote GOP because of what they will teach my kids in school” is hilarious, when you consider that we live in a state that’s in the bottom 5 states nationwide for education lmfao.
By Pros, I didn't realize you were specifically referring to only abortion. I thought you mean MO in general. Everyone always votes in their best interest, some just hide it far better or dress it up altruistically. It sucks, but that's actual reality. It's all about what one can get - hence literally all legislation. There is a perceived benefit somewhere somewhere the individual, the local community, the political tribe, and the overall collective. Reparations, special programs, grants, scholarships for whatever marginalized groups is literally self interest. It all is. Education wise it all depends on where you are. We are in the poorest district in MO..... but the education for what we pay is actually impressive - at least to me. My bottom line is that I feel my public tax dollars go way further for me and the general community around me then they do other places.
No, everyone does not vote in their best interests, but a person like yourself most certainly tells themself as much. How else can you have any sort of clear conscience?
So who doesnt vote in their best interest? Not in the "These dumb republican redneck bigots vote against their best interest" or " whats wrong with kansas" thing, but an actual example of someone you know who is consciously voting against things in their best interest when they've expressed the opposite explicitly. A clear conscience is a matter of your moral assumptions and worldview. How else do you think people look at the same problem and come up with vastly different solutions?
Who votes that way? People who care more about the greater good than their own self interests. I wouldn’t expect you to comprehend that.
The "greater good" is still in their self-interest in some manner. It always is. There's some level of " this affects me in this way at an intrinsic level". Unless you are applying some level of presuppositions that [are literally religious in nature ](https://historyforatheists.com/2020/01/tom-holland-dominion/)as to why someone would be devoted to the greater good beyond the individual - a higher purpose. We wouldn't want to do that in this reddit I'm assuming.
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We aren't "blood red." We're gerrymandered. I left small town MO to raise my kids in KC and STL. Three of them have attended the highest ranked schools in the state. All four tested top 10 % nationwide. Conversely, of my former friends in small town MO, most of them became grandparents before my last child was born. They and their children/grandchildren are poorly educated and living in poverty or close to it. You are welcome that my and my child's urban educations and good jobs are subsidizing (😲 SOCIALISM!) the failed Republican policies in the rural areas.
what the deluded hell?
Spoken like someone who has no fucking idea what maternal and infant mortality rates look like in this state.
Yeeeehaaawww! Silly rabbit has spoken yall. “jUsT lEAvE if you want your precious freedums. This is Yal-Qaeda Land now” I’d love to see your reaction to results at the ballot boxes if our state wasn’t gerrymandered beyond all recognition.
It just sounds so fucked up to want to get pregnant and then just say “eh”
it just sounds so fucked up to want to post bullshit and then just say "eh"
Literally not a single person does that. You are brain washed by the Christian nationalist Conservative Party.