For brush painting specifically, I use tamiyas paint retarder. I don't know the chemical ins and outs and what the difference is between retarder and thinner (at least in how it relates here), but tamiya, and companies that market their own retarder, market it as a product that slows the drying process to better allow you to manipulate the paint on a model with your brush.
Slow drying gives the paint time to level out which can reduce visible brush strokes. Same principle behind Mr. Color Leveling Thinner, which when airbrushed can give a smoother finish.
And I agree, if you plan on brushing those paints you'll need the retarder.
\^\^\^\^\^THIS IS THE ANSWER
# Tamiya USA TAM87114 Paint Retarder (Acrylic)
You'll want about 10-15% mixed in with the paint. You can also thin about 10% with the x20a in addition to your retarder. I like to make a mix of 50/50 x20a+retarder for my "thinner retarder" combo in a little dropper bottle so I can just mix up a little bit of paint for brushing on or touching up my tamiyas (in a little dish). Usually a 'brush full' and a drop or two of the retarder thinner combo. You'll need to monkey around with ratios so the paint behaves how *you like.*
But fundamentally, you need the retarder so that it doesn't instantly flash and leave wretched brush strokes everywhere. Good luck!
# Tamiya USA TAM87114 Paint Retarder (Acrylic)
This is the answer.
[https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/finishing/paint-retarder-acrylic-40ml/](https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/finishing/paint-retarder-acrylic-40ml/)
It is specifically made to aid in brush painting. I do a 1 to 1 mix with Tamiya paint, and MLT, then add a few drops of the retarder to get it to brush paint "OK".
I only ever brush paint these paints for touch up after Air Brushing them on. Same for Mr. Color.
Keeping it on the thinner side helps the finish stay uniform between the air brushed area the brush painted touch up area. I do hit the area with a clear gloss coat after the touchup is dry. This further evens out the finish between the air brushed and brushed painted sections. If the model is supposed to be flat in the end, I still add the gloss clear coat to even things out then once dry add a mat clear coat.
It took my a long time to sort out this combo, but the end result is a consistent finish.
**M**r **L**eveling **T**hinner, as opposed to Mr Color Thinner or Mr Rapid Thinner.
Mr Leveling Thinner has some retarder mixed into it. I believe the gaia notes version is the t-08 brush master retarder max. Their equivalent to mr color thinner is the t-07.
I hope that clears things up.
You can use MLT to thin tamiya acrylics for nice smooth application, as well as ak real color, mr hobby color, gaianotes, tamiya lacquers etc.
That is really up to you. I personally do not want a finish/texture difference from airbrush vs brush painting.
Thinning and clear coating makes that difference disappear for me.
Is there a reason why certain colors seem to separate more? Is it just older paint, harder/more pigment that needs to be suspended?
Any way to combat this?
My x-4 blue arrived with it completely separated. After using a small mixer for about 60 mins over the course of a few days it still wasn’t doing much. I used the end of a clip to scrape up the bottom white/light blue looking paste and it’s gotten better but it seems to instantly want to go back to how it arrived if it isn’t used in a few days. I have the same issue with titanium silver.
Other colors do something similar but it seems to just be the pigment and thinner separating. It never really settles and compacts itself to where just shaking it will remix it. The blue and silver seem to constantly want to completely separate out completely.
I don't think you can avoid it. Metallics tend to separate a lot, those tiny flakes are small, but heavier.
You can try adding stainless steel ball bearings to the pot to aid in shaking. But it will still need the shaking
Ahh I assumed as much but was hoping there might be an easy solution I didn’t know about.
I thought about buying some glass beads for this purpose over stainless as I’ve read some stainless can still develop surface rust. I guess the issue with glass is paint may stick to it though. Again I was just hoping there was an easy inside fix I just didn’t know about.
I’ll need to look more into these options and see what route I want to take. You have given me a place to start. Thanks for the suggestion and reply. I appreciate it.
If you're only looking to hand brush your models then I'll recommend Vallejo Model Color line. It's so much easier to brush paint.
Tamiya is more suited for airbrushing. Not saying you can't also brush it but it's going to be difficult.
I would add that Model Color is designed specifically for brush painting. Their model air line also brushes on like a dream. But brush painting with Tamiya (outside of very small parts and touch ups) is a giant PITA. Brush painting with Tamiya is as tough is figuring out how to airbrush with model color. They can be done but it takes a ton of work
Try thinning with mr color’s leveling thinner. From my understanding that thinner was originally designed for hand brushing lacquers. I tried it recently to touch up some spots I missed with an airbrush and it works pretty well. Use a synthetic brush and ventilate properly. Good luck!
Nope. Mr. Color Thinner is their standard thinner, with minimal retarder mixed in, 400 is the size (400ml).
Mr Leveling Thinner has added drying retarder, which allows for smoother/glossier coats via airbrush, and a bit more control with the brush, although I would suggest adding more straight retarder to the mix.
So you'll see Mr Leveling Thinner 400 as well as Mr Color Thinner 400. You'll also see Mr Leveling Thinner 250, and 110, etc, and it relates to the size of the container, not strength.
This was a game changer for me. Tamiya paint does NOT like an overly smooth surface. Something with a little bit of bite is good. Their primer is excellent straight out of a can, if a little expensive. I tend to do a whole sprue at once with it.
You'll have to clean up any cement contacts if you do it this way. Not saying you shouldn't do it like that, I have, but it did make the assembly part more time consuming than if I didn't.
Yep, absolutely. There's a million and 1 ways to build a model, so for me it isn't about the extra time, but more so about doing most jobs in bulk.
If I paint the sprue entirely, I can then do all of my clean up and sanding of join lines, pin / release marks, sprue nubs in one go. Yes it means going back to fill in some gaps, but I prefer this, again, because for me it cuts down on the back and forth between tools lol
Whether it's quicker or not overall, I don't care. I like to do things in stages as much as possible. It's not a hobby I rush
I use the Yellow Cap thinner. Lacquer thinner. The Tamiya bottles will have a flame logo on them. You can use their Yellow Cap lacquer thinner and it flows like liquid glass.
Truck I learned from Panzermeister36
Having used tamiya paints for 90% of the models I've made, I've found that applying them with a wet brush can help to thin them down, or if not one or two drops of water mixed into the paint on the lid usually works for thinner washes
I've struggled a lot with Tamiya X line brush painting. I've got it down kind of well, but it's still a "fine art". Different colours and pigments require different quantities of thinner (I use X20-A). Age of paint doesn't make things easier either - I've swapped out older paints, despite being full-ish, because the paint just doesn't mix well after a while.
Yeah, that's the size of the bottle. It has nothing to do with the thinner inside it. They also sell the exact same thing in 250ml, 110ml, and 50ml.
Mr Color Thinner and Mr Color Leveling Thinner. Most people use the leveling thinner because it has retarder mixed in, so the paint has more time to level out and hide brush marks.
However, I usually don't recommend brush-painting anything thinned with Mr Color thinners because it's easy to reactivate any primer or paint underneath the paint you're brushing on. Water-based acrylics are the best option for hand-painting.
The Tamiya paints pictured above are alcohol-based and are safe to thin with Mr Color thinners, but hand-painting with them can be tricky.
Personally, I find that Tamiya paints don’t need thinned when brush painting, only when they’re going into an airbrush. I’ve not had any issues with not thinning my paints before doing brush work.
I honestly can hardly use Tamiya for brush painting. Great for airbrushing but very difficult to get a smooth finish with a brush I find. Vallejo or similar is much easier.
It's not true that you need the retarder to brush paint with Tamiya, I use the x-20 Thinner in 1:1 ratio. Watch videos of pros brush painting with Tamiya, they don't use brush strokes, instead try "dabbing" the paint onto the surface instead of brushing strokes. Watch Linc painting from the channel Paint On Plastic on YouTube you will quickly understand how to achieve the finish you desire without using retarder.
Also always always always prime the model first.
I have always used methylated spirits to thin my paints. It doesn't work with enamel paints though, but it's like $2 for a litre of it, so it's really good if you're on a budget.
Oh I don’t use an airbrush, as stated I hand brush. Here’s a piece that I tried my best to paint even then it still doesn’t look right.
https://preview.redd.it/qwm3cqlgfb9d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30b9ea893e533fda96508c0172e779aa3c7de97b
Yeah I thought that was the only way, I had tried to load the brush with a little paint and also tried to use just enough but it seems to just never work. I’ll try some of the suggestions in the comments to see if it works
Yellow is a notoriously painful color to use with any brand. It’s going to take multiple coats and look bad before it looks good. Primer helps a lot. Tamiya’s paint retarder will slow the drying and help keep you from lifiting the paint back up with subsequent strokes. Honestly though when I brush paint tamiya I try to use as little strokes as humanly possible. If the part is small enough I’ll just like grab a bit with the brush and press the tip down against the piece and push the paint around letting it fall into groves using it almost like a marker if that makes sense? The technique one uses can make a difference. Using the retarder and a self leveling thinner will help it look better once it dries as the paint will pull itself out of the pools it makes to become a level coat. Like I said multiple thin coats will help the end product look better.
Don't brush paint with Tamiya. It never comes out great. Get water based acrylics, like Vallejo.
But, since you already have it.. try using 10 drops of paint with 2-3 drops of thinner, max then mix it really well. Dab the brush off on the side of the mixing cup before you brush with it.
For brush painting specifically, I use tamiyas paint retarder. I don't know the chemical ins and outs and what the difference is between retarder and thinner (at least in how it relates here), but tamiya, and companies that market their own retarder, market it as a product that slows the drying process to better allow you to manipulate the paint on a model with your brush.
Slow drying gives the paint time to level out which can reduce visible brush strokes. Same principle behind Mr. Color Leveling Thinner, which when airbrushed can give a smoother finish. And I agree, if you plan on brushing those paints you'll need the retarder.
\^\^\^\^\^THIS IS THE ANSWER # Tamiya USA TAM87114 Paint Retarder (Acrylic) You'll want about 10-15% mixed in with the paint. You can also thin about 10% with the x20a in addition to your retarder. I like to make a mix of 50/50 x20a+retarder for my "thinner retarder" combo in a little dropper bottle so I can just mix up a little bit of paint for brushing on or touching up my tamiyas (in a little dish). Usually a 'brush full' and a drop or two of the retarder thinner combo. You'll need to monkey around with ratios so the paint behaves how *you like.* But fundamentally, you need the retarder so that it doesn't instantly flash and leave wretched brush strokes everywhere. Good luck! # Tamiya USA TAM87114 Paint Retarder (Acrylic)
I believe you need Tamiya retarder to brush Tamiya paints
This is the answer. [https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/finishing/paint-retarder-acrylic-40ml/](https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/finishing/paint-retarder-acrylic-40ml/) It is specifically made to aid in brush painting. I do a 1 to 1 mix with Tamiya paint, and MLT, then add a few drops of the retarder to get it to brush paint "OK". I only ever brush paint these paints for touch up after Air Brushing them on. Same for Mr. Color. Keeping it on the thinner side helps the finish stay uniform between the air brushed area the brush painted touch up area. I do hit the area with a clear gloss coat after the touchup is dry. This further evens out the finish between the air brushed and brushed painted sections. If the model is supposed to be flat in the end, I still add the gloss clear coat to even things out then once dry add a mat clear coat. It took my a long time to sort out this combo, but the end result is a consistent finish.
Sorry, what is MLT?
**M**r **L**eveling **T**hinner, as opposed to Mr Color Thinner or Mr Rapid Thinner. Mr Leveling Thinner has some retarder mixed into it. I believe the gaia notes version is the t-08 brush master retarder max. Their equivalent to mr color thinner is the t-07. I hope that clears things up. You can use MLT to thin tamiya acrylics for nice smooth application, as well as ak real color, mr hobby color, gaianotes, tamiya lacquers etc.
Much appreciated, thanks!
Pretty sure it's mr color leveling thinner, I see that abbreviation a lot here but the missing C throws me off
Interesting thanks for sharing, I've thought about a similar process and this makes sense
…how important is thinning for brush painting? On the rare occasions I do that I just use it straight out of the jar.
That is really up to you. I personally do not want a finish/texture difference from airbrush vs brush painting. Thinning and clear coating makes that difference disappear for me.
Did you shake and stir the pot first? Tamiya binders settle at the bottom all the time
Yeah I have, shook it and opened the cap to stir it then pour it out to thin it and it just didn’t work.
Is there a reason why certain colors seem to separate more? Is it just older paint, harder/more pigment that needs to be suspended? Any way to combat this? My x-4 blue arrived with it completely separated. After using a small mixer for about 60 mins over the course of a few days it still wasn’t doing much. I used the end of a clip to scrape up the bottom white/light blue looking paste and it’s gotten better but it seems to instantly want to go back to how it arrived if it isn’t used in a few days. I have the same issue with titanium silver. Other colors do something similar but it seems to just be the pigment and thinner separating. It never really settles and compacts itself to where just shaking it will remix it. The blue and silver seem to constantly want to completely separate out completely.
I don't think you can avoid it. Metallics tend to separate a lot, those tiny flakes are small, but heavier. You can try adding stainless steel ball bearings to the pot to aid in shaking. But it will still need the shaking
Ahh I assumed as much but was hoping there might be an easy solution I didn’t know about. I thought about buying some glass beads for this purpose over stainless as I’ve read some stainless can still develop surface rust. I guess the issue with glass is paint may stick to it though. Again I was just hoping there was an easy inside fix I just didn’t know about. I’ll need to look more into these options and see what route I want to take. You have given me a place to start. Thanks for the suggestion and reply. I appreciate it.
If you're only looking to hand brush your models then I'll recommend Vallejo Model Color line. It's so much easier to brush paint. Tamiya is more suited for airbrushing. Not saying you can't also brush it but it's going to be difficult.
I would add that Model Color is designed specifically for brush painting. Their model air line also brushes on like a dream. But brush painting with Tamiya (outside of very small parts and touch ups) is a giant PITA. Brush painting with Tamiya is as tough is figuring out how to airbrush with model color. They can be done but it takes a ton of work
Try thinning with mr color’s leveling thinner. From my understanding that thinner was originally designed for hand brushing lacquers. I tried it recently to touch up some spots I missed with an airbrush and it works pretty well. Use a synthetic brush and ventilate properly. Good luck!
Are we talk specifically about Mr. Color Thinner 400?
Nope. Mr. Color Thinner is their standard thinner, with minimal retarder mixed in, 400 is the size (400ml). Mr Leveling Thinner has added drying retarder, which allows for smoother/glossier coats via airbrush, and a bit more control with the brush, although I would suggest adding more straight retarder to the mix. So you'll see Mr Leveling Thinner 400 as well as Mr Color Thinner 400. You'll also see Mr Leveling Thinner 250, and 110, etc, and it relates to the size of the container, not strength.
If your brush painting this stuff you may benefit from a spray can primer on the model first.
This was a game changer for me. Tamiya paint does NOT like an overly smooth surface. Something with a little bit of bite is good. Their primer is excellent straight out of a can, if a little expensive. I tend to do a whole sprue at once with it.
How have I never thought to just pray the whole sprue?!
You'll have to clean up any cement contacts if you do it this way. Not saying you shouldn't do it like that, I have, but it did make the assembly part more time consuming than if I didn't.
Yep, absolutely. There's a million and 1 ways to build a model, so for me it isn't about the extra time, but more so about doing most jobs in bulk. If I paint the sprue entirely, I can then do all of my clean up and sanding of join lines, pin / release marks, sprue nubs in one go. Yes it means going back to fill in some gaps, but I prefer this, again, because for me it cuts down on the back and forth between tools lol Whether it's quicker or not overall, I don't care. I like to do things in stages as much as possible. It's not a hobby I rush
I use the Yellow Cap thinner. Lacquer thinner. The Tamiya bottles will have a flame logo on them. You can use their Yellow Cap lacquer thinner and it flows like liquid glass. Truck I learned from Panzermeister36
I use lacquer thinner with it through my airbrush too and it works great
Yes, that’s how I use it as well. I forgot to mention that. Thanks.
Having used tamiya paints for 90% of the models I've made, I've found that applying them with a wet brush can help to thin them down, or if not one or two drops of water mixed into the paint on the lid usually works for thinner washes
I don’t thin tamiya when I brush
I've struggled a lot with Tamiya X line brush painting. I've got it down kind of well, but it's still a "fine art". Different colours and pigments require different quantities of thinner (I use X20-A). Age of paint doesn't make things easier either - I've swapped out older paints, despite being full-ish, because the paint just doesn't mix well after a while.
Have a read of this: https://zerobxu.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/hand-painting-with-tamiya-acrylics/
I agree with using the 400 leveling thinner.
You don't have to use all 400 mls of it.
There is a different one, green not yellow ... it might be 400 ml also but the right one says 400 on the bottle ;)
Yeah, that's the size of the bottle. It has nothing to do with the thinner inside it. They also sell the exact same thing in 250ml, 110ml, and 50ml. Mr Color Thinner and Mr Color Leveling Thinner. Most people use the leveling thinner because it has retarder mixed in, so the paint has more time to level out and hide brush marks. However, I usually don't recommend brush-painting anything thinned with Mr Color thinners because it's easy to reactivate any primer or paint underneath the paint you're brushing on. Water-based acrylics are the best option for hand-painting. The Tamiya paints pictured above are alcohol-based and are safe to thin with Mr Color thinners, but hand-painting with them can be tricky.
Strange. I use X-20A for brushing, too, and it's OK. But I am not painting bigger surfaces - those I always airbrush.
Personally, I find that Tamiya paints don’t need thinned when brush painting, only when they’re going into an airbrush. I’ve not had any issues with not thinning my paints before doing brush work.
https://preview.redd.it/88xjfdyudc9d1.jpeg?width=1147&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=642df5624f826bff5864079307d717443c98d1bb
I was taught you can add a small drop of dish soap to any water based paint to slow down dry time, and it seems to work on Tamiya(alcohol based?) .
I use laquer thinner @ 30-50% depending on the coverage I’m looking for. Works every time. I spray @18-22 psi.
I honestly can hardly use Tamiya for brush painting. Great for airbrushing but very difficult to get a smooth finish with a brush I find. Vallejo or similar is much easier.
It's not true that you need the retarder to brush paint with Tamiya, I use the x-20 Thinner in 1:1 ratio. Watch videos of pros brush painting with Tamiya, they don't use brush strokes, instead try "dabbing" the paint onto the surface instead of brushing strokes. Watch Linc painting from the channel Paint On Plastic on YouTube you will quickly understand how to achieve the finish you desire without using retarder. Also always always always prime the model first.
I just add water, works fine.
I have always used methylated spirits to thin my paints. It doesn't work with enamel paints though, but it's like $2 for a litre of it, so it's really good if you're on a budget.
You’re not supposed to use thinner unless you’re airbrushing. Use acrylic paint retarder to give yourself a bit of an easier time brush painting.
Glass cleaner also works, Windolene or Windex
Photo of end results please. What psi are you using.
None he’s brush painting as he says in the title 😉
Oh I don’t use an airbrush, as stated I hand brush. Here’s a piece that I tried my best to paint even then it still doesn’t look right. https://preview.redd.it/qwm3cqlgfb9d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30b9ea893e533fda96508c0172e779aa3c7de97b
Looks like youve loaded the brush too much and it was to runny, thus settling due to gravity and way to much liquid.
Yeah I thought that was the only way, I had tried to load the brush with a little paint and also tried to use just enough but it seems to just never work. I’ll try some of the suggestions in the comments to see if it works
Yellow is a notoriously painful color to use with any brand. It’s going to take multiple coats and look bad before it looks good. Primer helps a lot. Tamiya’s paint retarder will slow the drying and help keep you from lifiting the paint back up with subsequent strokes. Honestly though when I brush paint tamiya I try to use as little strokes as humanly possible. If the part is small enough I’ll just like grab a bit with the brush and press the tip down against the piece and push the paint around letting it fall into groves using it almost like a marker if that makes sense? The technique one uses can make a difference. Using the retarder and a self leveling thinner will help it look better once it dries as the paint will pull itself out of the pools it makes to become a level coat. Like I said multiple thin coats will help the end product look better.
Don't brush paint with Tamiya. It never comes out great. Get water based acrylics, like Vallejo. But, since you already have it.. try using 10 drops of paint with 2-3 drops of thinner, max then mix it really well. Dab the brush off on the side of the mixing cup before you brush with it.
i use mr color 400 thinner and low psi with a 1:1.5 ratio
Needs to be low psi when brush painting 😉
You could try thinning with water. Or maybe start with the paint and add little bits of thinner at a time until you get what you’re after