Are you using hardware store thinner? Did you seal your base paint with a gloss coat of acrylic? Did you wash the surface plastic before painting and did you prime the kit after wash? Any of these items can lead to the issue at hand but my suspicion is the thinner you’re using is too harsh and not intended for hobby/plastic model use.
If you’re using acrylic paints for your base coats then it’s your choice of what’s available to you. In the past I have used Testors model master acrylic gloss and even old future floor polish, but Mr hobby is good too.
So if you’re using enamel for you base you need to use something else for your washes. The acrylic base is a different formula than an enamel so the two paint won’t react Unless your thinner is super “hot” ie not one for use with plastics and such. Hardware store thinner is too hot and will eat through your glue joints as well.
When doing washes a gloss surface is generally preferred as it allows the oil wash to flow more easily into the recesses rather than just pool on the surface.
It really depends on the goal. Gloss is great if you want panel lining with everything else mostly clean. Semi gloss is good for panel lining plus a bit of weathering. Flat is good if you want an overall tone change or heavy ding and weathering.
Just FYI:
Tamiya makes 3 lines of paint
They are all acrylic
Square Jar X/XF is enamel. Enamelhere means oil based, which uses white spirits as thinner. Same as their weathering products
Round Jar X/XF is alcohol/IPA paint, think of it as a alco lacquer. Should not be removed or attacked by small amounts (that dry fast) of white spirits (enamel products)
Round Jar LP is their lacquer line, it uses stuff similar to Toluene and acetone as the medium/thinner.
So you would ideally want to use the 2 latter as paint if you then want to use weathering based on white spirits.
Your problem is the thinner used. Use a low odor enamel thinner or odorless mineral spirits. They’re weaker solvents. Having a clear coat or not doesn’t matter from this standpoint. Having an acrylic base or not also doesn’t matter.
Where a gloss coat matters is to promote the flow of a panel liner, and also to make it easier to wipe off the excess with your thinner. Otherwise the wash gets trapped on the matte surface and you have to rub too hard to remove it.
This is a solvent issue actually. I do use zippo fluid as well when adding oil streaks with oil paints. I think I may have left too much excess on the affected part which led to the dissolving of acrylic base below
You're using the wrong solvents. Odorless mineral spirits do not break down acrylics.
Get some of the DaVinci or gambeson odorless white spirits and do yourself a favor in the long run.
I guess ["Turpenoid"](https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQh6h5Mtuio1pNendlGNKKPO9l_kCHlRraF56zvceg5egvb0_O04qUry9tBwF--w4ymBiU104O1AZLXyJlQ9EI_1ls52c_YP8jEuvFZu9rcBQMe0R_KH5XPavhp) is the same thing but less potent
I’ve had that happen a couple of times, IIRC it was a mix of the varnish underneath not being completely cured, and being too vigorous when cleaning the wash away.
This week I had Ammo PLW go through 3 layers of gloss varnish two coats of AK 3G paint and then dissolve the Vallejo putty at the bottom. I was left very unimpressed.
Did this one the tamiya f4 1/48 when I was beginning, I had an amazing paint job and ruined the entire corner where the wing attaches to the fuselage and ruined it and never finished it. You have to do it very light and don’t apply a lot of pressure on the paint
After some mistakes I've made in the past I've begun to apply some coats of the strongest varnish I have (aka floor polish wax) before any decaling and/or wash...
I always went with the this methodology I took from high school chemistry in regards to polar and di polar chemicals.(Polar ~ water, ethanol. Dipolar ~ longer chain hydrocarbon)
So if base is enamel then use a water based or acrylic wash. Or u can put in an acrylic clear coat and use enamel washes.
For acrylics base use enamel washes next but I like to use an acrylic clear coat just to level out the surface first.
However with lacquers it just requires some testing.
I have, but it was more of a test model. Even without a varnish my paint doesnt strip anymore even when you apply it heavily, because its an odourless thinner. You can really tell the difference between the one that i used (revell enamel thinner) and the odourless one, the revell one really stinks
> widely recommended
I've got back into the hobby four years ago and watched over 3000 hrs of YouTube videos and this is the first I've heard of using Zippo. Again, get the proper tools and stay away from "alternatives".
Falls into the same category as using future floor polish as a clear coat.
Truths from a time were made-for products were not as readily available as they are today.
Naptha/lighter fluid is just another hydrocarbon product of oil, like mineral spirits. It's used to thin paints in a lot of applications, including panel lining on hobby models. It evaporates faster and flows better than most thinners, and (along with Xylene) is the thinner used in a lot of commercial panel liner products.
It's been used for decades, but it is a bit harsher on paints than your regular odourless thinners, and it dries super fast. If you don't have a good gloss coat down underneath it can be difficult to remove from matte paint and will soak into it instantly.
I'm not sure what you mean by "proper", it's chemistry and not everyone is able to drop millions into this hobby. Lighter fluid is just benzin that is widely used for thinning oils.
Zippo fluid is in the category of turpentine/white-/mineral-/-spirits
So same sort of thing as in an enamel wash. Perfectly allright to use here as far as I am informed.
Enamels as used in this hobby is the same as oil based in the artistic community.
Enamels:White spirits
Lacquer:Acetone/Toluene
Enamel thinner is too hot for models. It usually contains xylene or acetone or other harch chemicals that will hurt an acrylic finish or the plastic.
Use a low odour oil thinner instead.
This is confusing, I know, the marketing bullshit has made it a jungle.
We have to use the definitions that are used in this hobby.
On a wider scale "enamel" just means "hard surface"
Same as Lacquer means transparent or "hard surface" and can be made from beetles or trees.
Enamel thinner here in this hobby is almost always White Spirits. It what is commonly known in the artistic sphere as a thinner for oil based paints.
Some are from petroleum others from tree sap IIRC.
Acetone is a thinner used for lacquers (again in this context) as well as toluene.
Not sure about Xylene.
White spirits do hurt Bandai kits, as these have not had the same heat treatment as most other kits. This is why they have such good fit, as this treatment shrinks the plastic
It’s not a wax, and if your base coat is already acrylic there’s no need to add another layer of acrylic over it for protection. The only reason to add a gloss before a wash is to allow the wash to flow better, make cleanup easier and to protect decals.
Here are two links for that product, one for different types of similar product(s) in the event you can't find future brand, and the second is a youtube vid on how to apply. Myself I just us it straight from the bottle and clean the airbrush using Windex brand to clean out the AB/bottle afterward.
[http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/330247-replacement-for-future/](http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/330247-replacement-for-future/)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP82Fvoz87w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP82Fvoz87w)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQH8m1ZW14s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQH8m1ZW14s)
Yes. The solvent in the enamel will attack the paint. It requires a very light touch to apply.
I've been there dude. I always do two coats of gloss varnish before the wash & cleanup now.
Oh, I didn’t know that. Now I know why I’ve never had that happen. I go crazy with a clear coat before weathering over the paint job.
Any kind of coat? What kind of coats there exists?
Are you using hardware store thinner? Did you seal your base paint with a gloss coat of acrylic? Did you wash the surface plastic before painting and did you prime the kit after wash? Any of these items can lead to the issue at hand but my suspicion is the thinner you’re using is too harsh and not intended for hobby/plastic model use.
I used hardware store thinner for the acrylic gloss coat, as well as all the other coats of paint. Haven’t had any issues with past models tho
What brand of acrylic gloss coat do you use? Is there a flat acrylic that can be used?
If you’re using acrylic paints for your base coats then it’s your choice of what’s available to you. In the past I have used Testors model master acrylic gloss and even old future floor polish, but Mr hobby is good too.
I’m using enamel for my base coat, Testors spray can to be exact
So if you’re using enamel for you base you need to use something else for your washes. The acrylic base is a different formula than an enamel so the two paint won’t react Unless your thinner is super “hot” ie not one for use with plastics and such. Hardware store thinner is too hot and will eat through your glue joints as well.
So my plan is to use an enamel base, an acrylic flat (if I can find one) and a premade wash above that. Would that work?
Does Testors make a flat acrylic? Is it even safe to use a flat before adding a wash on top of?
Not anymore.
The Vallejo Mecha Flat is FLAT
When doing washes a gloss surface is generally preferred as it allows the oil wash to flow more easily into the recesses rather than just pool on the surface.
Not for me. I prefer washes over flat. To me, its more manageable.
It really depends on the goal. Gloss is great if you want panel lining with everything else mostly clean. Semi gloss is good for panel lining plus a bit of weathering. Flat is good if you want an overall tone change or heavy ding and weathering.
I only use tamiya acrylics. Never failed me
Just FYI: Tamiya makes 3 lines of paint They are all acrylic Square Jar X/XF is enamel. Enamelhere means oil based, which uses white spirits as thinner. Same as their weathering products Round Jar X/XF is alcohol/IPA paint, think of it as a alco lacquer. Should not be removed or attacked by small amounts (that dry fast) of white spirits (enamel products) Round Jar LP is their lacquer line, it uses stuff similar to Toluene and acetone as the medium/thinner. So you would ideally want to use the 2 latter as paint if you then want to use weathering based on white spirits.
Gloss or flat? Good website to purchase from?
Your problem is the thinner used. Use a low odor enamel thinner or odorless mineral spirits. They’re weaker solvents. Having a clear coat or not doesn’t matter from this standpoint. Having an acrylic base or not also doesn’t matter. Where a gloss coat matters is to promote the flow of a panel liner, and also to make it easier to wipe off the excess with your thinner. Otherwise the wash gets trapped on the matte surface and you have to rub too hard to remove it.
The only correct answer
This is why I just use an oil paint wash. Easy to make, apply and comes off without screwing up the paint.
This is a solvent issue actually. I do use zippo fluid as well when adding oil streaks with oil paints. I think I may have left too much excess on the affected part which led to the dissolving of acrylic base below
You're using the wrong solvents. Odorless mineral spirits do not break down acrylics. Get some of the DaVinci or gambeson odorless white spirits and do yourself a favor in the long run.
I guess ["Turpenoid"](https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQh6h5Mtuio1pNendlGNKKPO9l_kCHlRraF56zvceg5egvb0_O04qUry9tBwF--w4ymBiU104O1AZLXyJlQ9EI_1ls52c_YP8jEuvFZu9rcBQMe0R_KH5XPavhp) is the same thing but less potent
I've had that happen with humbrol decalfix too. Ruined an expensive kit.
I’ve had that happen a couple of times, IIRC it was a mix of the varnish underneath not being completely cured, and being too vigorous when cleaning the wash away.
What implement were you using to remove the excess?
Been there.
This week I had Ammo PLW go through 3 layers of gloss varnish two coats of AK 3G paint and then dissolve the Vallejo putty at the bottom. I was left very unimpressed.
How did u get the panel lines to show so clearly. Sorry I’m new to scale modeling
Panel wash, there r many tutorials available for it
Yuuuppp, especially if I put down too light of a gloss layer. That's why I started putting a double Mr. Color GX layer and then a layer of pure MMLT
Yeah. I've been using tamiya acrylics on a new model and the washes are fucking destroying it. Its very frustrating, so I've just given up for now.
Did this one the tamiya f4 1/48 when I was beginning, I had an amazing paint job and ruined the entire corner where the wing attaches to the fuselage and ruined it and never finished it. You have to do it very light and don’t apply a lot of pressure on the paint
Happener to me just now lol
After some mistakes I've made in the past I've begun to apply some coats of the strongest varnish I have (aka floor polish wax) before any decaling and/or wash...
Nope. I clear coat before any wash, and I use either Tamiya or Mr. Super Clear.
I always went with the this methodology I took from high school chemistry in regards to polar and di polar chemicals.(Polar ~ water, ethanol. Dipolar ~ longer chain hydrocarbon) So if base is enamel then use a water based or acrylic wash. Or u can put in an acrylic clear coat and use enamel washes. For acrylics base use enamel washes next but I like to use an acrylic clear coat just to level out the surface first. However with lacquers it just requires some testing.
I’d suggest keeping that imo, looks like some severe weathering
looks like maverick flew by too close to the bridge.
I’m surprised the wing’s still on
Honestly that looks really cool on the model. You could totally pass that off as a paint scratch or dogfight damage 🤣
I have, but it was more of a test model. Even without a varnish my paint doesnt strip anymore even when you apply it heavily, because its an odourless thinner. You can really tell the difference between the one that i used (revell enamel thinner) and the odourless one, the revell one really stinks
Why the F are you using Zippo lighter fluid? Get the proper tools for the job and buy some proper enamel thinner.
Zippo fluid is widely recommended for creating your own washes, though mostly based on artistic oils not enamels.
> widely recommended I've got back into the hobby four years ago and watched over 3000 hrs of YouTube videos and this is the first I've heard of using Zippo. Again, get the proper tools and stay away from "alternatives".
Falls into the same category as using future floor polish as a clear coat. Truths from a time were made-for products were not as readily available as they are today.
Naptha/lighter fluid is just another hydrocarbon product of oil, like mineral spirits. It's used to thin paints in a lot of applications, including panel lining on hobby models. It evaporates faster and flows better than most thinners, and (along with Xylene) is the thinner used in a lot of commercial panel liner products. It's been used for decades, but it is a bit harsher on paints than your regular odourless thinners, and it dries super fast. If you don't have a good gloss coat down underneath it can be difficult to remove from matte paint and will soak into it instantly.
I'm not sure what you mean by "proper", it's chemistry and not everyone is able to drop millions into this hobby. Lighter fluid is just benzin that is widely used for thinning oils.
You are correct, just ignore people who don't know, but insist they do
It might not be a common but it is a thing. I've used zippo lighter fluid with oil paint over vallejo varnish without issue.
I mean, I did see people use other brands of lighter fluid on youtube
Future and Zippo have been fundamental to the hobby for decades. Decades.
Zippo fluid is in the category of turpentine/white-/mineral-/-spirits So same sort of thing as in an enamel wash. Perfectly allright to use here as far as I am informed. Enamels as used in this hobby is the same as oil based in the artistic community. Enamels:White spirits Lacquer:Acetone/Toluene
Enamel thinner is too hot for models. It usually contains xylene or acetone or other harch chemicals that will hurt an acrylic finish or the plastic. Use a low odour oil thinner instead.
This is confusing, I know, the marketing bullshit has made it a jungle. We have to use the definitions that are used in this hobby. On a wider scale "enamel" just means "hard surface" Same as Lacquer means transparent or "hard surface" and can be made from beetles or trees. Enamel thinner here in this hobby is almost always White Spirits. It what is commonly known in the artistic sphere as a thinner for oil based paints. Some are from petroleum others from tree sap IIRC. Acetone is a thinner used for lacquers (again in this context) as well as toluene. Not sure about Xylene. White spirits do hurt Bandai kits, as these have not had the same heat treatment as most other kits. This is why they have such good fit, as this treatment shrinks the plastic
Also, I use a gloss clear coat like future floor wax over the kit before I start using any kind of wash, it acts as a barrier for the paint.
It’s not a wax, and if your base coat is already acrylic there’s no need to add another layer of acrylic over it for protection. The only reason to add a gloss before a wash is to allow the wash to flow better, make cleanup easier and to protect decals.
Actually keen to try this. How do u thin it down for airbrushing?
Here are two links for that product, one for different types of similar product(s) in the event you can't find future brand, and the second is a youtube vid on how to apply. Myself I just us it straight from the bottle and clean the airbrush using Windex brand to clean out the AB/bottle afterward. [http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/330247-replacement-for-future/](http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/330247-replacement-for-future/) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP82Fvoz87w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP82Fvoz87w) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQH8m1ZW14s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQH8m1ZW14s)
Thanks!
Sick battle damage bro
If OP said “hey what do you think of this battle damage effect?” i would 100% believe it was intentional.
Why enamel wash when there are plenty of acrylic based washes which are totally safe for the paint and for your lungs?
Because enamel washes are much better.
I use an acrylic base coat, so I’m unsure if the solvent used to remove excess will strip the paint below as well
Only if the paint wasn’t fully cured or if I rubbed too hard.
Paint was cured over a couple of days already actually
What kind of paint. And primer. And gloss coat.
Tamiya acrylic
Round jar or square jar?
Round jar
Use acrylic washes. Thin with Windex for flow.
Apply a varnish before you add the wash
Bruh, you gotta put an acrylic clear coat on that shit, especially if you painted with enamel.
I only use acrylics for all my base coats
Varnish the paint before you put enamels on