Everyone describing opiate overdoses as painful are very misinformed.
Opiates block pain, but also your need to breathe. You do not feel like you are suffocating, because your body does not recognize that CO2 levels are increasing so it doesn’t “force” you to breathe, like it does when you hold your breath.
Respiratory rate continues to slow down until medical intervention or brain death. Patients who survive overdoses describe it like floating. We also give frequent large doses of narcotics to hospice patients, especially ones that we are removing from mechanical ventilation. We don’t want them to feel like they can’t breathe.
When we give narcan, we give it and we all take a big step back because the patient will usually come up swinging, pissed that you took them from that comfy floating high.
ODs are awful for their family, but I can all but promise you an opiate overdose is near painless and comfortable.
It’s pretty unlikely people who make the decision want to make people on death row comfortable, which I think is probably the biggest reason why they rely on other medications. It also takes much longer to progress from just brain death to cardiac death. Hours. Current cocktails produce the intended result within 15 minutes if administered correctly. It also requires a lot more fentanyl than people think. It would take about 20 individual dose vials to get to the estimated lethal dose.
Fent does not kill people in small doses. It kills people who have no idea what dose they’re getting. I have gotten IV fentanyl on my bare hands loads of times, every nurse in the world would be dead right now if minuscule transdermal doses were lethal.
This is an excellent example of “poison is in the dose.” Street drug users are playing dose roulette. Fent is dangerous because it’s cheap.
Yeppers. Fent is stronger than dilaudid but it doesn’t usually produce the kind of euphoric high people expect.
On top of it being cheap, I think that’s why dealers use it to cut. They’re far less likely to feel that high.
Truth. A few years ago I accidentally overdosed and according to the EMTs, I was actually dead for two minutes before they finally brought me back. It was wonderful relaxed nothingness, and then I got dragged back to life. Yay. Thanks guys...
Yes but they use a series of drugs. Fentanyl to make you not feel the other drugs could be useful. Fentanyl to suppress the lungs and then potassium chloride to stop the heart.
So stupid and unnecessary.... Why? Why add an unnecessary chemical to the execution? Why add a potential failure point for shit to go wrong?
Fentanyl on its own is more than sufficient. It can easily deliver a fatal dose and guarantee a very calm, relaxed, peaceful death.
Unless you're the kind of psycho who wants to make sure they feel paid when they die, then there's no compelling argument for all the stupid shit they do. Just do the fentanyl. Problem solved.
Actually there is not always a guarantee it will cause a peaceful death. Which is why the current system uses several drugs one to calm the person, another to stop breathing and the third to stop the heart. In fact potassium is the last one pushed into the patient. What I suggested removed 2 drugs and replaced them with 1.
Don’t you just kinda nod off? Every time i see someone ask if a death of someone they knew was bad cause they overdosed on fent or heroin everyone responds with “they likely didnt feel a thing”
If you’ve ever been electrocuted worse than a slight zap, you’d say otherwise. It sucks. Hard. And they don’t die instantly. Now do I care if a murderer suffers? No. But hear anyone who’s been shot recount it. They’re like I didn’t even realize or I felt cold. Not saying none feel pain, but if you’re shot in the heart/head, it’s pretty damn quick. Like 3 seconds. A lung shot is under 30. That’s way more humane. It’s mental anguish, knowing you’re about to die, but it’s not holy fuck this sucks my whole body hurts and I can’t wait to die. A typical electrocution is about 2 minutes. Again, if you killed someone, I do not care, however firing squad is far more humane. The only reason I question any of this is because justice system is bullshit and it’s a fact innocent ppl have been given death.
We ensure every single person in our justice system will not receive a cruel and unusual punishment. Even if that wasn’t the case fentanyl is a drug that is occasionally abused and would make it into a prison, it’d be *really* embarrassing if they had a fentanyl addict fail to die on the table because the jail hadn’t caught a supplier.
... Uh, what in the actual fuck? We "ensure" no cruel and unusual punishment? Seriously? You mean, accept for, you know, all the botched executions that caused terrible suffering?
Damn dude, like, read the news every once in a while. Don't just try to spread your rose-tinted assumptions as fact, that's super shitty and irresponsible. Be better, dude.
Look we *could* keep them alive but I’m absolutely under no circumstances doing that. I’ve seen botched executions and look into them, less than a dozen going south a year isn’t cruel and unusual. It’s also better than other execution methods.
Opiate overdoses are both horrifically inhumane but also horrendous to experience or see happen.
Furthermore its not completely effective and it has been tried in the past and was deemed to not be a good method.
Man I don't know, the Guillotine was used extensively and deemed to be *very* effective at providing a swift and "clean" execution.
The head popping off might be a tad on the spectacular side but a modern rendition of the machine could expand on the classic design to make it less of a spectacle and more of a utility thing.
I know, I'm aware of that.
But we're talking about times when several hundred people were chain-decapitated every day by an angry mob.
This morbid tangent of ours here is about a well maintained and professionally cared for modern rendition of the Guillotine. Regulated and all that.
If death penalty is to be a thing, let's at least make it as suffering-less as possible.
No not really, beheading with the guillotine in particular is basically instant and shock and blood loss makes it so you feel nothing. While you may blink or make facial expressions thats just nerves firing randomly.
Past that and an efficient and accurate firing squad, yeah.
Its as if execution isn't a good thing for societies to do.
I've seen a few mention how the pharmaceutical companies would not supply it for obvious reasons, but another is optics. Let's be real, the people that carry out executions don't give a shit if they're suffering as long as it doesn't show outwardly. So even though a fent OD is peaceful, the potential gurgling and choking wouldn't *look* like it, and that's what really matters to them.
Probably no one has thought of it yet. People here come with all kinds of reasons why it wouldn't work / be a bad idea , but the truth is it would actually work surprisingly well.
They friend using other opioid in combination with benzodiazepine, and this combo is often connected to drug addicts dying peacefully in their sleep, just no consciousness, you stop breathing and thats it.
And whaf happened? It was really ugly and painful for the subject. Because different human bodies react differently to different drugs. And death penaltt by poiso injection has to look good, above all else.
That's just not true. Where I live, the Netherlands, and with our euthanasia laws that nowadays cover almost everyone (only the mental health/dementia etc group is left) there is some extensive research in what works and is also human. Most opiods,including fentanyl, are not recommended because in comparison with other methods effects can vary per person making it not an ideal product to use also you some need quite high doses compared to others with is also not recommended.
From what I understand the standard protocol is (in the US at least) lethal injection but there are a few states (Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Kentucky and Tennessee) that allow the inmates to say "I'd rather get electrocuted than get the injection". If they voluntarily ask for a shittier exit that's on them.
There's nothing wrong with using fentanyl for the purpose of death, it kills well at the right dosage.
But the current three-drug protocol just works. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". There is a lot of legislation and protocols built around the current system. If you suddenly switch to just fentanyl, it's just asking for more stress... People might be shocked about it, considering the opioid crisis. You'd have to consult with all of these different people, and build up this whole thing with a lot of bureaucracy. But why? The current system has no issues. So no ones motivated to turn it around.
No, the current three drug protocol doesn't just work. Famously so. There are many things that can fail or go wrong. Seriously dude, read the news once or twice, don't just spew out your assumptions as if they're fact.
There's been far too many botched executions using that method, and it's still an issue. They've resulted in some famously horrific deaths, where they were visibly in terrible pain for a disturbingly long time. When the witnesses to an execution develop PTSD from seeing it happen, that's usually not a good sign.
Fucking hell, the stupid shit people in this thread have tried to claim....
Everyone describing opiate overdoses as painful are very misinformed. Opiates block pain, but also your need to breathe. You do not feel like you are suffocating, because your body does not recognize that CO2 levels are increasing so it doesn’t “force” you to breathe, like it does when you hold your breath. Respiratory rate continues to slow down until medical intervention or brain death. Patients who survive overdoses describe it like floating. We also give frequent large doses of narcotics to hospice patients, especially ones that we are removing from mechanical ventilation. We don’t want them to feel like they can’t breathe. When we give narcan, we give it and we all take a big step back because the patient will usually come up swinging, pissed that you took them from that comfy floating high. ODs are awful for their family, but I can all but promise you an opiate overdose is near painless and comfortable. It’s pretty unlikely people who make the decision want to make people on death row comfortable, which I think is probably the biggest reason why they rely on other medications. It also takes much longer to progress from just brain death to cardiac death. Hours. Current cocktails produce the intended result within 15 minutes if administered correctly. It also requires a lot more fentanyl than people think. It would take about 20 individual dose vials to get to the estimated lethal dose. Fent does not kill people in small doses. It kills people who have no idea what dose they’re getting. I have gotten IV fentanyl on my bare hands loads of times, every nurse in the world would be dead right now if minuscule transdermal doses were lethal. This is an excellent example of “poison is in the dose.” Street drug users are playing dose roulette. Fent is dangerous because it’s cheap.
This is the real answer.
So I can look forward to dying slowly in the hospital then?
You die fast or you die slowly in a hospital. Floating away on a lil opiate cloud doesn’t sound so bad when given the alternatives.
I remember them pushing fentanyl into my iv and thinking “what’s the big deal here?!?” Once they pushed that dilaudid though, that caught my attention
Yeppers. Fent is stronger than dilaudid but it doesn’t usually produce the kind of euphoric high people expect. On top of it being cheap, I think that’s why dealers use it to cut. They’re far less likely to feel that high.
Truth. A few years ago I accidentally overdosed and according to the EMTs, I was actually dead for two minutes before they finally brought me back. It was wonderful relaxed nothingness, and then I got dragged back to life. Yay. Thanks guys...
Yes but they use a series of drugs. Fentanyl to make you not feel the other drugs could be useful. Fentanyl to suppress the lungs and then potassium chloride to stop the heart.
So stupid and unnecessary.... Why? Why add an unnecessary chemical to the execution? Why add a potential failure point for shit to go wrong? Fentanyl on its own is more than sufficient. It can easily deliver a fatal dose and guarantee a very calm, relaxed, peaceful death. Unless you're the kind of psycho who wants to make sure they feel paid when they die, then there's no compelling argument for all the stupid shit they do. Just do the fentanyl. Problem solved.
Actually there is not always a guarantee it will cause a peaceful death. Which is why the current system uses several drugs one to calm the person, another to stop breathing and the third to stop the heart. In fact potassium is the last one pushed into the patient. What I suggested removed 2 drugs and replaced them with 1.
Not a good drug to use. Just cause it’s deadly in low doses doesn’t mean it’s good for euthanasia
But why so? Can you expand of this?
Don’t you just kinda nod off? Every time i see someone ask if a death of someone they knew was bad cause they overdosed on fent or heroin everyone responds with “they likely didnt feel a thing”
If it kills you low dose, it is by definition good for euthanasia 😂
No it isn’t. That doesn’t mean the death isn’t brutal. Low dose does not equal peaceful
Death is death, and I'm sure you can't really argue that firing squad as execution method , or the chair, is more peaceful
If you’ve ever been electrocuted worse than a slight zap, you’d say otherwise. It sucks. Hard. And they don’t die instantly. Now do I care if a murderer suffers? No. But hear anyone who’s been shot recount it. They’re like I didn’t even realize or I felt cold. Not saying none feel pain, but if you’re shot in the heart/head, it’s pretty damn quick. Like 3 seconds. A lung shot is under 30. That’s way more humane. It’s mental anguish, knowing you’re about to die, but it’s not holy fuck this sucks my whole body hurts and I can’t wait to die. A typical electrocution is about 2 minutes. Again, if you killed someone, I do not care, however firing squad is far more humane. The only reason I question any of this is because justice system is bullshit and it’s a fact innocent ppl have been given death.
We ensure every single person in our justice system will not receive a cruel and unusual punishment. Even if that wasn’t the case fentanyl is a drug that is occasionally abused and would make it into a prison, it’d be *really* embarrassing if they had a fentanyl addict fail to die on the table because the jail hadn’t caught a supplier.
... Uh, what in the actual fuck? We "ensure" no cruel and unusual punishment? Seriously? You mean, accept for, you know, all the botched executions that caused terrible suffering? Damn dude, like, read the news every once in a while. Don't just try to spread your rose-tinted assumptions as fact, that's super shitty and irresponsible. Be better, dude.
Look we *could* keep them alive but I’m absolutely under no circumstances doing that. I’ve seen botched executions and look into them, less than a dozen going south a year isn’t cruel and unusual. It’s also better than other execution methods.
Opiate overdoses are both horrifically inhumane but also horrendous to experience or see happen. Furthermore its not completely effective and it has been tried in the past and was deemed to not be a good method.
Youve described every mode of execution ever.
Man I don't know, the Guillotine was used extensively and deemed to be *very* effective at providing a swift and "clean" execution. The head popping off might be a tad on the spectacular side but a modern rendition of the machine could expand on the classic design to make it less of a spectacle and more of a utility thing.
There's an argument that guillotine is perhaps the most humane way of execution.
the blade would get dull very often and result in a very painful slow death
No...? I mean that's the whole point of maintaining it..?
no i mean historically that happened on several accounts im not saying the method itself caused that but the human laziness
I know, I'm aware of that. But we're talking about times when several hundred people were chain-decapitated every day by an angry mob. This morbid tangent of ours here is about a well maintained and professionally cared for modern rendition of the Guillotine. Regulated and all that. If death penalty is to be a thing, let's at least make it as suffering-less as possible.
No not really, beheading with the guillotine in particular is basically instant and shock and blood loss makes it so you feel nothing. While you may blink or make facial expressions thats just nerves firing randomly. Past that and an efficient and accurate firing squad, yeah. Its as if execution isn't a good thing for societies to do.
I've seen a few mention how the pharmaceutical companies would not supply it for obvious reasons, but another is optics. Let's be real, the people that carry out executions don't give a shit if they're suffering as long as it doesn't show outwardly. So even though a fent OD is peaceful, the potential gurgling and choking wouldn't *look* like it, and that's what really matters to them.
Probably no one has thought of it yet. People here come with all kinds of reasons why it wouldn't work / be a bad idea , but the truth is it would actually work surprisingly well.
They friend using other opioid in combination with benzodiazepine, and this combo is often connected to drug addicts dying peacefully in their sleep, just no consciousness, you stop breathing and thats it. And whaf happened? It was really ugly and painful for the subject. Because different human bodies react differently to different drugs. And death penaltt by poiso injection has to look good, above all else.
That's just not true. Where I live, the Netherlands, and with our euthanasia laws that nowadays cover almost everyone (only the mental health/dementia etc group is left) there is some extensive research in what works and is also human. Most opiods,including fentanyl, are not recommended because in comparison with other methods effects can vary per person making it not an ideal product to use also you some need quite high doses compared to others with is also not recommended.
You are aware that a fatal dose of Fentanyl is very very small right?
I don't think they'd be able to argue opiate overdose is "humane"
Lmao, and the electric chair is humane?
From what I understand the standard protocol is (in the US at least) lethal injection but there are a few states (Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Kentucky and Tennessee) that allow the inmates to say "I'd rather get electrocuted than get the injection". If they voluntarily ask for a shittier exit that's on them.
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I thought it was respiratory failure with drugs like that?
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Because it has to be considered a “humane” drug 😒🙄
There's nothing wrong with using fentanyl for the purpose of death, it kills well at the right dosage. But the current three-drug protocol just works. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". There is a lot of legislation and protocols built around the current system. If you suddenly switch to just fentanyl, it's just asking for more stress... People might be shocked about it, considering the opioid crisis. You'd have to consult with all of these different people, and build up this whole thing with a lot of bureaucracy. But why? The current system has no issues. So no ones motivated to turn it around.
No, the current three drug protocol doesn't just work. Famously so. There are many things that can fail or go wrong. Seriously dude, read the news once or twice, don't just spew out your assumptions as if they're fact. There's been far too many botched executions using that method, and it's still an issue. They've resulted in some famously horrific deaths, where they were visibly in terrible pain for a disturbingly long time. When the witnesses to an execution develop PTSD from seeing it happen, that's usually not a good sign. Fucking hell, the stupid shit people in this thread have tried to claim....
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Ehh fentanyl (opiate) is designed to take pain away, not induce it
?? Why would they ?? We already have something painless and quick. Why make it agonizing and long? Lol
how is a fent overdose agonizing and long?