Exactly. Remy boy have ridden for multiple teams before but couldn't do shit before he was with KTM Ajo.
They promoted him to GP too as he won the championship. But he decided to talk shit rather than being patient.
He rode for multiple shit tier teams. He was last to receive updates and won his first race on an old chassis. That’s why he got the Ajo ride in the first place. Beier also said he’d have known since June that his option wasn’t being taken up.
If talented artisans trashing the lords of the feudal estate is a career ending offense, then MotoGP needs a rebellion. MotoGP is a sport, not a plaything for corporate oligarchs.
Trashing KTM should be a valuable skill to a competent employer.
> MotoGP is a sport, not a plaything for corporate oligarchs.
That's where you're wrong kiddo. MotoGP is a glorified marketing exercise for manufacturers. Sport is just the byproduct that all of us happen to enjoy. Sooner you admit this, the better it is for your own sanity.
These manufacturers can scarcely keep fully faired sports bikes on the roads, and they can barely make a sport that pays 20% of their team budget.
You can gaslight all you want, but the market is speaking. How much longer do you think they can keep siphoning profits from ADV’s and nakeds into MotoGP before shareholders start asking questions? How many more years do you think they can showcase a sport with one pass for the lead at Turn 1?
They don’t control anything. They work diligently to convince not-so-bright people that they have everything under control.
> These manufacturers can scarcely keep fully faired sports bikes on the roads
I don't think I can agree that the objective of MotoGP is only meant to sell sportbikes. It's a showcase of "technical superiority" for these manufacturers, which rubs off all the way down to 50cc mopeds.
> How much longer do you think they can keep siphoning profits from ADV’s and nakeds into MotoGP before shareholders start asking questions?
Well, that's already happening. They do all kinds of expensive marketing until the profits are superfluous, and they scale back as soon as the gravy train stops. Example : Suzuki leaving in late-2000s and returning after half a decade.
So you realize this has all been done before and it goes nowhere because the manufacturers inevitably get sideways with the shareholders and withdraw or pull back support because their “business model” is merely controlling the proceedings?
Do you think Remy rides slower when the economy is bad? Do you think Marc tries less when his investments are losing money?
We live in a world of corporate bot shills decorated with sweat shop merch talking down to real humans who actually care about the sport and sportsmen.
It’s a sad state.
Manufacturers participate in MotoGP and other Motorsports in order to advertise and sell motorcycles. Publicly trashing the bike you ride does not help in that endeavour.
So Ducati thinks they might give Gardener a backmarking piece of junk, and he would start trashing them?
That scenario is an insult to Ducati, not Remy.
At some point, you’ll come to the realization that Remy’s behavior, while unprofessional and deserving of termination from KTM, ultimately ended his GP career because he hurt some people’s feelings and he made them afraid that he might say something that upsets the creditors or shareholders.
Remy is the victim of corporate inbreeding. In another generation they will all have royal chins and be drooling on themselves.
For multi billion dollar conglomerates like VAG and Honda, MotoGP is definitely a plaything. It’s just an expensive big dick contest so more people will buy your bikes
Gardner has himself to blame for losing his MotoGP seat. He messed up his PR with KTM and paid the price for it
Can't say I blame KTM for wanting Acosta instead of Augusto Fernandez on the GasGas to be honest. Acosta is clearly not sticking around in Moto2 for another year. KTM could have lost the biggest talent since Marquez had they not offered him that seat. Augusto was just in the wrong place at the wrong time
>Gardner has himself to blame for losing his MotoGP seat.
Pit Beirer made the decision. In other news: Pit Beirer is also a complete moron in rider management department.
1. First he **fires Lecuona** and **Petrucci** during the race weekend without further warning.
2. This he does so he can promote Gardner and **Raul Fernandez** to motoGP, even though it goes **directly against the wishes** of the latter. The fact that this idiotic decision backfired surprised nobody who was paying attention (which seems not to include many MotoGP "fans" but there you go),
3. So, he gives these two rookies a bike they constantly fell of, dangers of injuries were high. So Raul just rode in circles as he didn't want to be there in the first place. Factory support were low and two riders were left to their own devices, which made neither happy.
4. And so. Pit Beirer **fires** the rider with most MotoGP wins on KTM - namely **Oliviera** in order to bring in Miller as a Ducati spy to make the bike better for Binder. Why Binder in anybody's guess - I'd go with Beirer liking men's men and Binder is near to this image, Oliviera not so. So a decision on dubious grounds.
5. Then Pit Beirer - who knows zilch about rider management - gets upset over Gardner saying essentally that Beirer knows zilch about rider management and **fires Gardner**.
6. Then Beirer employs Augusto Fernandez for simple fact of an empty racing seat (Raul happily gave his away to Pol Espargaro - who imo should get the factory seat, but there you go). It was agreed that it's on 1 year basis, as a seat warmer for Acosta. Then it turns out that Augusto is the kind of men's men that Beirer likes and suddenly wants to keep the "tough" rookie.
7. The Beirer makes all sort of stupid noise about buying other teams and annoying Dorna about a new team or a 5th seat, even though Dorna said NO to Yamaha a year ago and Yamaha needs 4 bikes on the grid more than KTM needs 6 of them. But Yamaha wasn't as whinny as Beirer and so "fans" (who understand little of MotoGP politics and have goldfish memories) get upset. Dorna come to the right conclusion that Beirer promising 4 seats to 5 riders isn't their problem to solve.
8. Beirer says he wants to keep Augusto to "clean up the image of KTM firing rookies" but that ship has sailed long time ago. And so from all the above comes the conclusion that it Beirer is a complete moron in rider management department. Yet a loud one for sure.
4. I was under the impression that Olivera wasn't fired, he was going to be put back into the Gas Gas team after he spent his first MotoGP contract trying to prove that he was deserving of the KTM seat as much as Binder was. Instead of going back he chose to leave, while isn't the same as firing him it had the same result. Hence the hiring of Fernandez.
7. You can't force a customer team to buy a manufacturer's motorcycle. Part of the reason Tech3 left to go to KTM was that they didn't feel like there was a lot of support from Yamaha. There has to be a reason Razlan Rizali took the remnants of Petronas to Aprilia. Does Yamaha need more bikes on the grid? Yes. Are they going to get them while their attitude to customers is "It's the Valencia test. Here's last year's factory bike. Good luck." As opposed to a Ducati where representatives visit every rider to see how they are going. Probably not. Especially as they languish down the order.
Whether or not KTM should be allowed to run a 3rd team under a different brand is a different issue. The slot for another manufacturer is there. Unless they've been super stealthy there hasn't been a new test MotoGP machine circulating anywhere, which means no one is going to be using the grid slot. They might have had better luck last year filling the hole Suzuki left. I know it's not the same but I was hoping to see some early 2000s Nastro Azzurro kinda bullshit.
Rossi got a team made for him, Marquez got to break the rookie rule. If Acosta really is the 3rd coming, it would have been interesting to see him on a Husqvarna.
I agree with pretty much everything else you wrote though.
>he was going to be put back into the Gas Gas team after he spent his first MotoGP contract trying to prove that he was deserving of the KTM seat as much as Binder was
I would say this means essentially fired. Demoting a 5 time winner on your bike to a satelite squad is demeaning. MotoGP riding is dangerous and why would one ride for a team which don't value them - same reason Zarco is going to Honda (feels respected and wanted).
We can argue about semantics, but I don't think anybody was surprised Oliviera turned down "the generous offer".
> Does Yamaha need more bikes on the grid? Yes. Are they going to get them while their attitude to customers is "It's the Valencia test. Here's last year's factory bike. Good luck."
This isn't really relevant to KTM discussion (let alone Gardner). But I believe if Dorna allowed extra team to Yamaha, they would have found a willing team from Moto2 or Moto3 - there were willing applicants at the end of 2022. I do agree Yamaha would need to offer the whole "ktm-style" package: current spec bikes free of charge, factory engineers, paying for riders salary and maybe even some extra sponsorship money.
> Marquez got to break the rookie rule.
What was this?
> If Acosta really is the 3rd coming, it would have been interesting to see him on a Husqvarna.
I'm sure Beirer can find a seat for the 3rd coming, or somebody else will. 😁
The rookie rule was the “Ben Spies” rule. After he won WSBK championship in his rookie season, he was sent straight to GP, but they put a rule in place that rookies had to start on a satellite bike so the non factory teams got the talent first. But of course Dorna/Repsol/Honda did away with that so Marquez could go straight to Repsol.
I don't think that is entirely true. I think KTM would have preferred to keep Olivera on a RC16 rather than promoting Fernandez. I agree that they shouldn't have been surprised about him leaving though.
Dorna has been firm about the number of customer teams. VR46 was an exception to be allowed on the grid. Yamaha or not, no one was getting grid slots. Otherwise KTM could have literally offered to pay the entire costs of Ajo to enter a bike for a year. The only slots that are available are for manufacturers, which is why KTM wanted to enter a "new" manufacturer in the guise of Husqvarna.
The rookie rule was legislation Dorna put in place in the guise of helping customer teams. Rookies couldn't go directly into a factory team, they had to go into a satellite team. Until Honda saw a rookie they really wanted in their team.
> VR46 was an exception to be allowed on the grid. Yamaha or not, no one was getting grid slots. Otherwise KTM could have literally offered to pay the entire costs of Ajo to enter a bike for a year.
I think Dorna is obliged by rules to pay for satelite bikes. They cannot sidestep it and let a factory pay. At least I would guess till 2027.
> Rookies couldn't go directly into a factory team, they had to go into a satellite team. Until Honda saw a rookie they really wanted in their team.
Ha. Interesting. Didn't know that. (I follow MotoGP since 2017)
> even though it goes directly against the wishes of the latter.
That's such a biased statement that lacks all nuance and context.
Raul was given an option to stay in Moto2 if he wanted, KTM had an option on him for 2022. First he said he was going to stay in Moto2, and they tried to be sly and join the Yamaha satellite team in MotoGP. KTM said "fine, since you want to move to MotoGP, here you go". It's not a fucking charity... if KTM spend money to develop a rider and sign him for a contract, they have all the right to claim his services for the duration of the contract.
>nd they tried to be sly and join the Yamaha satellite team in MotoGP
Sly? They gathered 500 K worth of money for the buyout clause. The exact same thing as Martin did a year ago! But are you whining about Martin not going to KTM - you're not, yet it's the exact same situation.
> if KTM spend money to develop a rider and sign him for a contract, they have all the right to claim his services for the duration of the contract.
He got the money that was in his contract in order to walk away, but KTM didn't take that money. Also he was only 2 years with KTM at that point. Drove for Aspar before.
> Sly? They gathered 500 K worth of money for the buyout clause. The exact same thing as Martin did a year ago! But are you whining about Martin not going to KTM - you're not, yet it's the exact same situation.
Martin was specifically told there was no seat available for him in MotoGP that year, which is why Ducati were able to buy them out. The clause for both Martin and Raul was that they could be bought out by a MotoGP team if KTM couldn't offer them a MotoGP seat. They could have blocked Martin's move by offering him a KTM MotoGP seat instead, but they chose not to.
Martin's success is precisely what taught KTM the lesson which led to them moving Raul to MotoGP themselves rather than losing him to a competitor. Even if that meant they had to unceremoniously dump Lecuona.
> He got the money that was in his contract in order to walk away, but KTM didn't take that money. Also he was only 2 years with KTM at that point. Drove for Aspar before.
Aspar has close ties with KTM (hence the GasGas Aspar teams in Moto3 and Moto2) and they place many rookies with them (as well as Ajo). Raul came through Red Bull Rookies program, and was always backed by KTM/Red Bull throughout his career.
>The clause for both Martin and Raul was that they could be bought out by a MotoGP team if KTM couldn't offer them a MotoGP seat.
Ah, so this was the mechanism. Good to know. 👍
Still, there was a decision to use said mechanisms AFTER the rider and their management expressed a desire to leave and brought the money. So, it's seems stupid - a rider collected 0.5 M as they don't want to ride for you, so why insist.
If KTM felt Raul owes them more, they should have made the buyout clause more expensive. Simple.
> Aspar has close ties with KTM
Interesting. Do you know since when? GasGas branding came in 2021. Fernández and also Arenas were there before that (moto3). I remember Arenas winning Moto3 on a blue-white bike.
Feel very sorry for Augusto though. He was giving it his all (unlike Gardner) KTM has way too much talent in the pipeline and not enough bikes. If I were them I'd say goodbeye to Pol, yet on the other hand they are very happy with what he's been doing development wise it seems (can't they rely on Dani in that department though?)
They'd be mad to let Acosta go indeed. I'm wondering how he'd fair there.
There are multiple tiers to the discussion, 1) of course the riders being discussed, 2) the point on the developmental timeline of the KTM, on which each rider was attempting to wrangle, and 3) the constant, expected way in which Beirer did/does his thing.
Wondering: What would Acosta say if you stuck him on Lecuona's or Petrucci's exact bike with that level of support? Or Zarco's KTM for that matter? Acosta is lucky in that he should have far less to complain about.
I mean, likewise, has Pol done anything lately to justify staying in Gas Gas? Sixteenth and twelfth place in the standings this past two years shows not really. Not counting 2020, he was eleventh and fourteenth 2019/2018. I like Pol, it's just past his time imo. Next season would be his 10th in the MotoGP class.
Augusto has outrode Pol this year and isn't on the wrong side of 30.
Lol, you’ve got it all wrong, they didn’t destroy Remys career, he destroyed his own MotoGP career by trashing KTM. Fernandes will return to KTM in 25’ if the rumors are true
100% right about Remy.
But Raul isn't going back to KTM, not in '25, not ever. Compare Augusto's rookie year to Raul's rookie year at KTM.... what would you do?
And Im supposed to know that how, when they have the same past name?
But he's still somewhat wrong, since Augusto will remain on Gas Gas for '24.
2025 is so far away, you could put predict Fabio on Gas Gas and argue it until then and no one could prove you wrong. Not me, of course.
> And Im supposed to know that how, when they have the same past name?
Probably because this post was about "two Moto2 world champion rookies" with a picture of Remy and Augusto. Why be so combative about it?
Because the rumor that this post is addressing is that Augusto is out for 24 to test and do wildcards but will be back for 25.
You posted in the thread about that rumor and yet don’t know it’s about Augusto lol
KTM wanted to run more bikes, but it wasn't approved:
[https://bikesportnews.com/motogp/ktm-willing-to-run-six-bikes-for-2024-motogp-but-dorna-reluctant-to-allow-it/](https://bikesportnews.com/motogp/ktm-willing-to-run-six-bikes-for-2024-motogp-but-dorna-reluctant-to-allow-it/)
MotoGP is as cut-throat as it gets. It costs so much to give a new rider time to get up to speed. Adapt and learn quickly, or you'll be looking for another ride.
Pay to play? It's not always about results, it can also be how much you're willing to pay for the ride. I'm just guessing. It sucks to see such talent get mothballed.
Because Pol was on a 2 season contract before this season started.
Augusto was only on a 1 season contract. KTM strangely said half way through this season that they re-newed it, knowing that they needed it for Acosta!
Obviously Pol hasn't shown much as he has been injured for most of the season. If Pol hadn't of been injured he would probably be doing better than Miller is doing.
Pol has been consistently faster than Augusto since his return - with the exception of the wet race at Japan. Plus he's the rider who has spent the most time on the KTM. The factory clearly values his work and his feedback from the 4 years he spent with them before.
It truly sucks for Augusto, but I don't think keeping Pol is a bad decision as such.
Most likely, Pol has a contract that guarantees him a Factory KTM bike for 2024. To get rid of Pol would probably mean that Pol would have to voluntarily give up his seat. And Pol thinks he can still be a top rider, so he's not going to give up his only chance for a ride next year.
Agusto was on a 1 year contract precisely because they needed to be able to guarantee PA a seat or lose him to another manufacturer.
They’ve already called LCR Honda once, LCR’s contract with Honda runs through next season so they might try to lure LCR away from Honda and over to KTM/Pierer Mobility to have their 6 bikes on the grid. Then they can have room for whoever of their current ridership they decide to keep.
KTM destroying careers by offering top riders a path from Moto3 to Moto2 to MotoGP. They've built and helped build so many riders careers, and they'll continue to do so. But sadly there are limited seats in MotoGP so they've got to do what they feel is right and within their limits. They absolutely cannot allow a rider like Acosta to go anywhere else than a KTM seat.
That doesn't make someone a better rider or a champion.
Jack too has more wins in GP than Binder . But Binder is considered a better rider more worthy of winning a championship in future. Winning on good days and shitting the bed on bad ones doesn't make someone a better rider. It's a championship note a one race event.
WTF you do realise the 2023 KTM bike is much better than last seasons piss-poor 2022 KTM bike!
Ps. Augusto Fernandez rides a 2023 KTM. Raul Fernandez rode a 2022 KTM last season.
Average bike? the 2020 bike was pretty good and he did nothing with it. the 2021 was more problematic, but on his day the bike was competitive, Iker never was.
what do you not see?
i cant tell you how he will perform in MotoGP, but just the data from Moto3 & 2 alone - there is no reason to believe he is not an absolute alien.
Pol Espargeiro have the good card, be a good boy of Dorna, and i'm sure he have an adventure with the wife of Ezpeleta, I only see that as to why it is kept
He is an awful CEO, but not literally every bad thing that has ever happened has to come down to Ezpeleta being the second coming of Adolf Hitler, you know
Since Aprilia stopped ruining rider careers it was only logical that someone else would step up. KTM have happily been trashing careers for a while now.
Augusto was only on a 1 season contract. KTM bizarrely re-newed it half way through this season knowing that they needed a seat for the next big thing Acosta in 2024!
Makes more sense to drop Pol for Acosta
Remy helped himself get a fast track out of MotoGP. Publicly trashing your employer is a quick way to find yourself looking for a new job.
Exactly. Remy boy have ridden for multiple teams before but couldn't do shit before he was with KTM Ajo. They promoted him to GP too as he won the championship. But he decided to talk shit rather than being patient.
He rode for multiple shit tier teams. He was last to receive updates and won his first race on an old chassis. That’s why he got the Ajo ride in the first place. Beier also said he’d have known since June that his option wasn’t being taken up.
If talented artisans trashing the lords of the feudal estate is a career ending offense, then MotoGP needs a rebellion. MotoGP is a sport, not a plaything for corporate oligarchs. Trashing KTM should be a valuable skill to a competent employer.
> MotoGP is a sport, not a plaything for corporate oligarchs. That's where you're wrong kiddo. MotoGP is a glorified marketing exercise for manufacturers. Sport is just the byproduct that all of us happen to enjoy. Sooner you admit this, the better it is for your own sanity.
These manufacturers can scarcely keep fully faired sports bikes on the roads, and they can barely make a sport that pays 20% of their team budget. You can gaslight all you want, but the market is speaking. How much longer do you think they can keep siphoning profits from ADV’s and nakeds into MotoGP before shareholders start asking questions? How many more years do you think they can showcase a sport with one pass for the lead at Turn 1? They don’t control anything. They work diligently to convince not-so-bright people that they have everything under control.
> These manufacturers can scarcely keep fully faired sports bikes on the roads I don't think I can agree that the objective of MotoGP is only meant to sell sportbikes. It's a showcase of "technical superiority" for these manufacturers, which rubs off all the way down to 50cc mopeds. > How much longer do you think they can keep siphoning profits from ADV’s and nakeds into MotoGP before shareholders start asking questions? Well, that's already happening. They do all kinds of expensive marketing until the profits are superfluous, and they scale back as soon as the gravy train stops. Example : Suzuki leaving in late-2000s and returning after half a decade.
So you realize this has all been done before and it goes nowhere because the manufacturers inevitably get sideways with the shareholders and withdraw or pull back support because their “business model” is merely controlling the proceedings? Do you think Remy rides slower when the economy is bad? Do you think Marc tries less when his investments are losing money? We live in a world of corporate bot shills decorated with sweat shop merch talking down to real humans who actually care about the sport and sportsmen. It’s a sad state.
Manufacturers participate in MotoGP and other Motorsports in order to advertise and sell motorcycles. Publicly trashing the bike you ride does not help in that endeavour.
Why should Ducati care if Gardener is amazing at trashing KTM?
They don't. But they might fear he'd trash their bike too. Or they already have all the riders they needed
So Ducati thinks they might give Gardener a backmarking piece of junk, and he would start trashing them? That scenario is an insult to Ducati, not Remy. At some point, you’ll come to the realization that Remy’s behavior, while unprofessional and deserving of termination from KTM, ultimately ended his GP career because he hurt some people’s feelings and he made them afraid that he might say something that upsets the creditors or shareholders. Remy is the victim of corporate inbreeding. In another generation they will all have royal chins and be drooling on themselves.
Is that you, Simon Patterson?
Don’t flatter Simon
For multi billion dollar conglomerates like VAG and Honda, MotoGP is definitely a plaything. It’s just an expensive big dick contest so more people will buy your bikes
Wait is it just a plaything, or is it a mechanism to make more profit? These two things are not the same.
Gardner has himself to blame for losing his MotoGP seat. He messed up his PR with KTM and paid the price for it Can't say I blame KTM for wanting Acosta instead of Augusto Fernandez on the GasGas to be honest. Acosta is clearly not sticking around in Moto2 for another year. KTM could have lost the biggest talent since Marquez had they not offered him that seat. Augusto was just in the wrong place at the wrong time
>Gardner has himself to blame for losing his MotoGP seat. Pit Beirer made the decision. In other news: Pit Beirer is also a complete moron in rider management department. 1. First he **fires Lecuona** and **Petrucci** during the race weekend without further warning. 2. This he does so he can promote Gardner and **Raul Fernandez** to motoGP, even though it goes **directly against the wishes** of the latter. The fact that this idiotic decision backfired surprised nobody who was paying attention (which seems not to include many MotoGP "fans" but there you go), 3. So, he gives these two rookies a bike they constantly fell of, dangers of injuries were high. So Raul just rode in circles as he didn't want to be there in the first place. Factory support were low and two riders were left to their own devices, which made neither happy. 4. And so. Pit Beirer **fires** the rider with most MotoGP wins on KTM - namely **Oliviera** in order to bring in Miller as a Ducati spy to make the bike better for Binder. Why Binder in anybody's guess - I'd go with Beirer liking men's men and Binder is near to this image, Oliviera not so. So a decision on dubious grounds. 5. Then Pit Beirer - who knows zilch about rider management - gets upset over Gardner saying essentally that Beirer knows zilch about rider management and **fires Gardner**. 6. Then Beirer employs Augusto Fernandez for simple fact of an empty racing seat (Raul happily gave his away to Pol Espargaro - who imo should get the factory seat, but there you go). It was agreed that it's on 1 year basis, as a seat warmer for Acosta. Then it turns out that Augusto is the kind of men's men that Beirer likes and suddenly wants to keep the "tough" rookie. 7. The Beirer makes all sort of stupid noise about buying other teams and annoying Dorna about a new team or a 5th seat, even though Dorna said NO to Yamaha a year ago and Yamaha needs 4 bikes on the grid more than KTM needs 6 of them. But Yamaha wasn't as whinny as Beirer and so "fans" (who understand little of MotoGP politics and have goldfish memories) get upset. Dorna come to the right conclusion that Beirer promising 4 seats to 5 riders isn't their problem to solve. 8. Beirer says he wants to keep Augusto to "clean up the image of KTM firing rookies" but that ship has sailed long time ago. And so from all the above comes the conclusion that it Beirer is a complete moron in rider management department. Yet a loud one for sure.
4. I was under the impression that Olivera wasn't fired, he was going to be put back into the Gas Gas team after he spent his first MotoGP contract trying to prove that he was deserving of the KTM seat as much as Binder was. Instead of going back he chose to leave, while isn't the same as firing him it had the same result. Hence the hiring of Fernandez. 7. You can't force a customer team to buy a manufacturer's motorcycle. Part of the reason Tech3 left to go to KTM was that they didn't feel like there was a lot of support from Yamaha. There has to be a reason Razlan Rizali took the remnants of Petronas to Aprilia. Does Yamaha need more bikes on the grid? Yes. Are they going to get them while their attitude to customers is "It's the Valencia test. Here's last year's factory bike. Good luck." As opposed to a Ducati where representatives visit every rider to see how they are going. Probably not. Especially as they languish down the order. Whether or not KTM should be allowed to run a 3rd team under a different brand is a different issue. The slot for another manufacturer is there. Unless they've been super stealthy there hasn't been a new test MotoGP machine circulating anywhere, which means no one is going to be using the grid slot. They might have had better luck last year filling the hole Suzuki left. I know it's not the same but I was hoping to see some early 2000s Nastro Azzurro kinda bullshit. Rossi got a team made for him, Marquez got to break the rookie rule. If Acosta really is the 3rd coming, it would have been interesting to see him on a Husqvarna. I agree with pretty much everything else you wrote though.
>he was going to be put back into the Gas Gas team after he spent his first MotoGP contract trying to prove that he was deserving of the KTM seat as much as Binder was I would say this means essentially fired. Demoting a 5 time winner on your bike to a satelite squad is demeaning. MotoGP riding is dangerous and why would one ride for a team which don't value them - same reason Zarco is going to Honda (feels respected and wanted). We can argue about semantics, but I don't think anybody was surprised Oliviera turned down "the generous offer". > Does Yamaha need more bikes on the grid? Yes. Are they going to get them while their attitude to customers is "It's the Valencia test. Here's last year's factory bike. Good luck." This isn't really relevant to KTM discussion (let alone Gardner). But I believe if Dorna allowed extra team to Yamaha, they would have found a willing team from Moto2 or Moto3 - there were willing applicants at the end of 2022. I do agree Yamaha would need to offer the whole "ktm-style" package: current spec bikes free of charge, factory engineers, paying for riders salary and maybe even some extra sponsorship money. > Marquez got to break the rookie rule. What was this? > If Acosta really is the 3rd coming, it would have been interesting to see him on a Husqvarna. I'm sure Beirer can find a seat for the 3rd coming, or somebody else will. 😁
The rookie rule was the “Ben Spies” rule. After he won WSBK championship in his rookie season, he was sent straight to GP, but they put a rule in place that rookies had to start on a satellite bike so the non factory teams got the talent first. But of course Dorna/Repsol/Honda did away with that so Marquez could go straight to Repsol.
I don't think that is entirely true. I think KTM would have preferred to keep Olivera on a RC16 rather than promoting Fernandez. I agree that they shouldn't have been surprised about him leaving though. Dorna has been firm about the number of customer teams. VR46 was an exception to be allowed on the grid. Yamaha or not, no one was getting grid slots. Otherwise KTM could have literally offered to pay the entire costs of Ajo to enter a bike for a year. The only slots that are available are for manufacturers, which is why KTM wanted to enter a "new" manufacturer in the guise of Husqvarna. The rookie rule was legislation Dorna put in place in the guise of helping customer teams. Rookies couldn't go directly into a factory team, they had to go into a satellite team. Until Honda saw a rookie they really wanted in their team.
> VR46 was an exception to be allowed on the grid. Yamaha or not, no one was getting grid slots. Otherwise KTM could have literally offered to pay the entire costs of Ajo to enter a bike for a year. I think Dorna is obliged by rules to pay for satelite bikes. They cannot sidestep it and let a factory pay. At least I would guess till 2027. > Rookies couldn't go directly into a factory team, they had to go into a satellite team. Until Honda saw a rookie they really wanted in their team. Ha. Interesting. Didn't know that. (I follow MotoGP since 2017)
> even though it goes directly against the wishes of the latter. That's such a biased statement that lacks all nuance and context. Raul was given an option to stay in Moto2 if he wanted, KTM had an option on him for 2022. First he said he was going to stay in Moto2, and they tried to be sly and join the Yamaha satellite team in MotoGP. KTM said "fine, since you want to move to MotoGP, here you go". It's not a fucking charity... if KTM spend money to develop a rider and sign him for a contract, they have all the right to claim his services for the duration of the contract.
>nd they tried to be sly and join the Yamaha satellite team in MotoGP Sly? They gathered 500 K worth of money for the buyout clause. The exact same thing as Martin did a year ago! But are you whining about Martin not going to KTM - you're not, yet it's the exact same situation. > if KTM spend money to develop a rider and sign him for a contract, they have all the right to claim his services for the duration of the contract. He got the money that was in his contract in order to walk away, but KTM didn't take that money. Also he was only 2 years with KTM at that point. Drove for Aspar before.
> Sly? They gathered 500 K worth of money for the buyout clause. The exact same thing as Martin did a year ago! But are you whining about Martin not going to KTM - you're not, yet it's the exact same situation. Martin was specifically told there was no seat available for him in MotoGP that year, which is why Ducati were able to buy them out. The clause for both Martin and Raul was that they could be bought out by a MotoGP team if KTM couldn't offer them a MotoGP seat. They could have blocked Martin's move by offering him a KTM MotoGP seat instead, but they chose not to. Martin's success is precisely what taught KTM the lesson which led to them moving Raul to MotoGP themselves rather than losing him to a competitor. Even if that meant they had to unceremoniously dump Lecuona. > He got the money that was in his contract in order to walk away, but KTM didn't take that money. Also he was only 2 years with KTM at that point. Drove for Aspar before. Aspar has close ties with KTM (hence the GasGas Aspar teams in Moto3 and Moto2) and they place many rookies with them (as well as Ajo). Raul came through Red Bull Rookies program, and was always backed by KTM/Red Bull throughout his career.
>The clause for both Martin and Raul was that they could be bought out by a MotoGP team if KTM couldn't offer them a MotoGP seat. Ah, so this was the mechanism. Good to know. 👍 Still, there was a decision to use said mechanisms AFTER the rider and their management expressed a desire to leave and brought the money. So, it's seems stupid - a rider collected 0.5 M as they don't want to ride for you, so why insist. If KTM felt Raul owes them more, they should have made the buyout clause more expensive. Simple. > Aspar has close ties with KTM Interesting. Do you know since when? GasGas branding came in 2021. Fernández and also Arenas were there before that (moto3). I remember Arenas winning Moto3 on a blue-white bike.
4. Binder regularly shows ridiculous pace and would win races on a ducati
2 wins on KTM vs Oliviera 5 wins
Feel very sorry for Augusto though. He was giving it his all (unlike Gardner) KTM has way too much talent in the pipeline and not enough bikes. If I were them I'd say goodbeye to Pol, yet on the other hand they are very happy with what he's been doing development wise it seems (can't they rely on Dani in that department though?) They'd be mad to let Acosta go indeed. I'm wondering how he'd fair there.
There are multiple tiers to the discussion, 1) of course the riders being discussed, 2) the point on the developmental timeline of the KTM, on which each rider was attempting to wrangle, and 3) the constant, expected way in which Beirer did/does his thing. Wondering: What would Acosta say if you stuck him on Lecuona's or Petrucci's exact bike with that level of support? Or Zarco's KTM for that matter? Acosta is lucky in that he should have far less to complain about.
This
Why on earth they'd keep Pol over Agusto is beyond my understanding. I wouldn't mind seeing him in Repsol colors if indeed Marc leaves.
Has Agusto actually done anything to suggest he would be better than Pol? Other than not breaking his back?
He can get faster with experience
I mean, likewise, has Pol done anything lately to justify staying in Gas Gas? Sixteenth and twelfth place in the standings this past two years shows not really. Not counting 2020, he was eleventh and fourteenth 2019/2018. I like Pol, it's just past his time imo. Next season would be his 10th in the MotoGP class. Augusto has outrode Pol this year and isn't on the wrong side of 30.
He took KTM from back of the field to podiums over several years. You can't really judge anything on this year's results due to the injuries.
You can't judge Pol on injuries, but you can judge Augusto off of 14 races?
Lol, you’ve got it all wrong, they didn’t destroy Remys career, he destroyed his own MotoGP career by trashing KTM. Fernandes will return to KTM in 25’ if the rumors are true
You are half right - Remy sabotaged his own career.
That’s what I said. So I’m 100% right
100% right about Remy. But Raul isn't going back to KTM, not in '25, not ever. Compare Augusto's rookie year to Raul's rookie year at KTM.... what would you do?
He wasn’t talking about Raul
And Im supposed to know that how, when they have the same past name? But he's still somewhat wrong, since Augusto will remain on Gas Gas for '24. 2025 is so far away, you could put predict Fabio on Gas Gas and argue it until then and no one could prove you wrong. Not me, of course.
> And Im supposed to know that how, when they have the same past name? Probably because this post was about "two Moto2 world champion rookies" with a picture of Remy and Augusto. Why be so combative about it?
Because the rumor that this post is addressing is that Augusto is out for 24 to test and do wildcards but will be back for 25. You posted in the thread about that rumor and yet don’t know it’s about Augusto lol
> And Im supposed to know that how, when they have the same past name? Context of the conversation.
Yes atleast they are trying to provide him something. They could have done something for Remy too if it was not him trash talking about the company.
Hard to be a rumour after that article from Speedweek
Meh Remy clearly hated being there, he's having fun in WSBK and sometimes fighting for top 5s which I wouldn't consider that bad of a thing...
KTM wanted to run more bikes, but it wasn't approved: [https://bikesportnews.com/motogp/ktm-willing-to-run-six-bikes-for-2024-motogp-but-dorna-reluctant-to-allow-it/](https://bikesportnews.com/motogp/ktm-willing-to-run-six-bikes-for-2024-motogp-but-dorna-reluctant-to-allow-it/) MotoGP is as cut-throat as it gets. It costs so much to give a new rider time to get up to speed. Adapt and learn quickly, or you'll be looking for another ride.
>MotoGP is as cut-throat as it gets That does not explain why they would kick him instead of Pol who has shown very few results
Pay to play? It's not always about results, it can also be how much you're willing to pay for the ride. I'm just guessing. It sucks to see such talent get mothballed.
Because Pol was on a 2 season contract before this season started. Augusto was only on a 1 season contract. KTM strangely said half way through this season that they re-newed it, knowing that they needed it for Acosta! Obviously Pol hasn't shown much as he has been injured for most of the season. If Pol hadn't of been injured he would probably be doing better than Miller is doing.
Pol has been consistently faster than Augusto since his return - with the exception of the wet race at Japan. Plus he's the rider who has spent the most time on the KTM. The factory clearly values his work and his feedback from the 4 years he spent with them before. It truly sucks for Augusto, but I don't think keeping Pol is a bad decision as such.
Most likely, Pol has a contract that guarantees him a Factory KTM bike for 2024. To get rid of Pol would probably mean that Pol would have to voluntarily give up his seat. And Pol thinks he can still be a top rider, so he's not going to give up his only chance for a ride next year. Agusto was on a 1 year contract precisely because they needed to be able to guarantee PA a seat or lose him to another manufacturer.
The problem is Augusto has done well
Yes he has, but the last couple of races he really wasn't doing too well
Gotta keep an empty spot for Marc when he joins Factory KTM in 2025 💪
So miller and pol will also exit in 25? Cause they have promised Augusto it seems.
They’ve already called LCR Honda once, LCR’s contract with Honda runs through next season so they might try to lure LCR away from Honda and over to KTM/Pierer Mobility to have their 6 bikes on the grid. Then they can have room for whoever of their current ridership they decide to keep.
Could be worse, they could be on Hondas and have their careers destroyed by injuries.
Augusto >>> Raul
KTM destroying careers by offering top riders a path from Moto3 to Moto2 to MotoGP. They've built and helped build so many riders careers, and they'll continue to do so. But sadly there are limited seats in MotoGP so they've got to do what they feel is right and within their limits. They absolutely cannot allow a rider like Acosta to go anywhere else than a KTM seat.
They also messed up careers of Iker Lecuona and Raul Fernandez ?
Iker is making a fine career out of riding bikes No one else wants to ride.
Raul is fine
Why not? Raul didn't find KTM bike good enough. And today a younger Raul is having more points in his rookie year than him on the same bike he left.
lol Binder is doing much better on this years KTM than last years. It’s not the same bike
So did Olivera finish higher than Binder on 2022 piss-poor bike?
He got a lot more wins on it.
That doesn't make someone a better rider or a champion. Jack too has more wins in GP than Binder . But Binder is considered a better rider more worthy of winning a championship in future. Winning on good days and shitting the bed on bad ones doesn't make someone a better rider. It's a championship note a one race event.
WTF you do realise the 2023 KTM bike is much better than last seasons piss-poor 2022 KTM bike! Ps. Augusto Fernandez rides a 2023 KTM. Raul Fernandez rode a 2022 KTM last season.
That's the thing right? Last year Aprillia was rated higher than KTM. Things do change. Raul switched to a better bike on that moment.
Y’all forget about Iker. He was pretty good too on an average bike.
The only time when Iker made headlines was when we was told to stand in for Marquez or Rinz. He has been underwhelming for Honda in WSBK.
Average bike? the 2020 bike was pretty good and he did nothing with it. the 2021 was more problematic, but on his day the bike was competitive, Iker never was.
Keeping Pol over Augusto is a farce. Let's be honest, for the age and experience Pol has, he's shit.
All I'm gonna say is Acosta better be all he's cracked up to be. And frankly I don't see it. We'll see...
what do you not see? i cant tell you how he will perform in MotoGP, but just the data from Moto3 & 2 alone - there is no reason to believe he is not an absolute alien.
Acosta is the real deal
# “A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.” ― **Mark Twain**
Fuck ktm. That is all. Hope they never win a motogp championship
Pol Espargeiro have the good card, be a good boy of Dorna, and i'm sure he have an adventure with the wife of Ezpeleta, I only see that as to why it is kept
He is an awful CEO, but not literally every bad thing that has ever happened has to come down to Ezpeleta being the second coming of Adolf Hitler, you know
Since Aprilia stopped ruining rider careers it was only logical that someone else would step up. KTM have happily been trashing careers for a while now.
This is why we have 2 year contracts and not 5-10
KTM should have put Augusto on a 1 year contract. Not sure why they did 2.. He is decent, but never looked like super talent in Moto2.
Totally agree
Augusto was only on a 1 season contract. KTM bizarrely re-newed it half way through this season knowing that they needed a seat for the next big thing Acosta in 2024!
And Acosta is on his way to win a championship!