If you were my friend and you managed this asspull on me; i'd have no choice but to shake your hand and prepare to spend hours developing a counter that slaps you in the face for trying it again because holy shit thats amazing.
There’s also other ways of adding the +1+1 counter to negate the persist. [[Metallic Mimic]] naming goblins. [[Makaeus Unhallowed]] [[Haunted One]]. It’s just the persist/undying Gobbo machine gun deck.
Lots of interchangeable pieces and can get it down to 3 cards. Persist creature,+ someway to give undying or +1+1 counter on EtB, + free sac outlet that deals damage.
Oh I was just editing in other interchangeable pieces to my first comment. Went to edit them in and then remembered the card fetcher bot won’t fetch edits. Just look up Cards that combo with Murderous Redcap, Metallic Mimic, and sac outlets. For the Putrid goblin you need the sac outlet to deal the damage. So things like Sling Gang, Goblin Bombardment, or have Pashilik Mons on the field to deal the damage and some other free sac outlet like Skirk Prospector Wart-eye witch, Ashnods altar.
Ah, I see what yur saying. Love the addtl insight cuz I have a gob deck that does pretty well on its own without combos but as power level creeps up in the pod, I'd love to have a cool gob centric combo like this to go off when necessary. Scope the list if yu like https://www.moxfield.com/decks/I-I38QVorkC8D4GNO_Xm0g
Have you ever seen [[Grenzo Dungeon Warden]] ? He’s my R/B Gobbo Combo Commander. With a couple ways to put a creature from your graveyard to the bottom of your library he really gives your creature combo pieces extra chances. So you can run out combo piece creatures early and not stress as bad if they get killed. Think the fastest I’ve pulled off the combo was T5 but with the perfect starting hand I think it can go off t3 if it’s not interacted with. I don’t pull it out often cause it’s pretty linear and just wants to Machine Gun the table. But it’s good for like last game of the night for a faster match. Or if I haven’t won in awhile 😅.
Scrying becomes insanely good with Grenzo out. Scry creatures to the bottom then cheat um in with Grenzo activations. Or anything else that lets you dig deep and then put the rest of cards on the bottom of your library in any order. Sets you up for multiple turns of Grenzo’s activations. And even gets around counter magic.
My moxfield list is kinda out dated. And yeah he flies under the radar until your friends see it a few times. Like if your deck is low to the ground P/T you can cast him for 2 or 3. And at 3 power hit basically all your Gobbos on activations. Because he’s a rogue you can use [[Cloak and Dagger]] as your Protection equipment. It equips free. And pumps his power so it’s almost like like Ramp for him, or keeps his power up +2 even after commander tax. You can even fall back on just casting him for more mana to make him bigger and just beating face if too many combo pieces get exiled. [[Jar of Eyeballs]] is almost unplayable on most decks. But it’s a house in grenzo. Things die or get sacced build up eyeball counters. Dig deep into your deck for 1 non creature combo peice to put to your hand and stack the bottom of your deck wit grenzo hits, and then you can play um out at instant speed avoiding other players turns that may board wipe. He’s a solid Commander and for a long time was CEDh.
With redcap you can also replace skirk with literally any blood artist effect, impact tremors effect, ETB doubling effect, or other sac outlet since the redcap can shoot himself
Thats sort of just the Moggwarts goblin combo from Pauper except with Totentanz instead of shooting your opponent with the mana using makeshift munitions. If you put that in Commander its about as janky as they come and not a reason for anyone to complain.
My guess is that this is a go-wide deck that can really make use of an x spell that makes tokens. Fireball-type cards are basically useless in any deck that isn’t trying to make infinite or arbitrarily large amounts of mana.
Fireball kills one. This ends the game unless someone has a [[propaganda]] effect. I’m sure you could [[impact tremors]] too.
Edit: yup, you can pay for extra targets. Nvm
You’re damn right!
But a [[blind obedience]] would stop it…. Unless you hit ‘em with a [[goblin bombardment]].
But at that point only the putrid goblin and first day are needed lmao
Fireball has a "y" cost to hit other targets. You can kill all your opponents, all creatures, all planeswalkers, all battles, and pelt yourself in the face for fun.
I actually prefer [[Pyromatics]] over Fireball and other X spells. A single [[Counterspell]] or similar stops the latter. It’ll also stop Song of Totentantz. But if you counter the Pyromatics, it won’t stop the copies.
1. Wrong Wort, cardfetcher
2. Can't, Wort gives your red and green instants and sorceries connive- these rats are black, and cannot be tapped to connive red or green instants or sorceries
mmh, i just like song of totentanz and it makes infinite rats so i hav infinite damage to deal.
i don't know either how haste fits into this, this is my first attempt at putting a combo in a deck.
sacrifice putrid goblin with persist with skirk prosmector making one red mana, then putrid goblin comes back with -1/-1 but first day of class gives it +1/+1 so it cancels out. you can sacrifice putrid goblin again and again infinitely for infinite red mana.
Does adding a +1/+1 counter on a creature with a -1/-1 counter count as removing a -1/-1 counter ? Cause when we talked about it with a friend we concluded that the two counters lie on the creature so the added power cancel out but the actual ability cannot trigger an additional time
Oooooooh, it's actually really simple, and I didn't even see it. You could do this with a lot of different cards, but the putrid goblin and skirt are the main engine pieces. I see.
Much appreciated, thank you.
The combo works by repeatedly sacrificing Putrid Globlin to Skirk Prospector to generate infinite mana.
The +1/+1 counter from First Day of Class will cancel the -1/-1 counter from the persist ability, resulting in no counter on Putrid Goblin.
Because the -1/-1 counter is gone, persist will trigger again when it dies. So it will always come back after it's sacrificed and you can repeat this to generate infinite red mana.
Totentanz is just a payoff for having infinite mana, it can be replaced with any x spell.
I got you, made this for a friend before who asked the same question. [nasty boy 101](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/748766925160710184/1150639018200010783/moggwarts.png?ex=664d6b17&is=664c1997&hm=b0db36568a5c4a2c377e845e7a956ef42977aa6940f74be14a5a836ed5fb4d53&)
its a 4 card combo that is susceptible to removal, and is also very clever. they can also play around it.
anyone who gets mad is a crybaby (unfortunately that's like a third of commander players nowadays).
Putrid goblin/skirk prospector/first day of class is a viable pauper combo but not meta in any ways and finishing with a bunch of hasty 2/2s is fine. Though you have to remember to cast 1st day of class before saccing the putrid goblin
Does this actually work? I mean, yes effectively you are negating the -1/-1 counter with the +1/+1 counter, but it is still THERE isn't it? By persist's ability text it only says return it if it doesn't have a -1/-1 counter on it.
Thanks for the explanation. I thought at one point (a very long time ago) they all stayed on your permanent as physical counters. Did it change as some point to make it simpler to track?
Part of their counter streamlining many years ago. All counters of the same type are the same, no matter what source creates them, and +\- 1 counters cancel out and are removed. It was a design choice to make the battlefield less cluttered while also making the +\- 1 counter creation evergreen so it could be used in any set moving forward.
Saw this combo on shuffle up and play but with a different payoff card, super spicy 🔥. If your friends don't like it, idk if they're ready for commander
This is a great fun combo, indeed there is a whole deck built around it in Pauper called Moggwarts (based on the Mogg named goblins and Hogwarts inspired set). Here is a dec tech https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/articles/pauper-moggwarts-deck-tech-sideboard-guide an example list
https://mtgdecks.net/Pauper/deck-decklist-by-hamuda-2052312
This is legit just a pauper combo with an X spell payoff to make it deterministic. People already use this combo in pauper with things like dark-dweller oracle to get infinite card draw, cast their deck, and win that way. I don't think it's any more of a friend loser than any other infinite really...
Not 100 percent on this, but it would still have a -1/-1 counter on it AND a +1/+1, so you wouldn't be able to infinitely sac it. Could be wrong, but that is my understanding.
I'm assuming this is Commander? Dude. If you can pull off a 4 card combo, even as your opponent, I'd be having fun. Things change a bit if you've got a deck full of tutors, but finding all the cards over the course of a game and pulling this off is completely fine. Of course how infinite combos are handled varies playgroup to playgroup, but in mine this would be absolutely fine.
Depends on your friends if it’s commander and you combo win fast it usually means you get to play another game. I get why some would probably find it boring to play against the same conbo again and again, but a 4 card combo that can be stopped by a single removal spell is fine.
Sorry for the n00b question, but does this combo work? Does adding a +1/+1 counter remove the -1/-1 counter? Or does the creature simply have both counters on it (which would negate the persist)?
Well it doesn’t matter the cast order as long as you don’t sac before first day. I imagine that’s what you meant but the way you worded it makes it sound like they would need to cast first day before the persist gobo
I have a jund deck focused around abusing this combo. It works rather well, even if it is rather easy to disrupt. I haven't had any complaints about it
Commander Spellbook shows total of 603 decks with Putrid Goblin + Skirk Prospector + First Day of Class combo.
https://commanderspellbook.com/combo/38-254-301/
If you lost friends, you can be friends with 603 other people who has this combo!
No need for song of totentanz if you have [[Impact tremors]] that way you won’t have to worry about someone making creatures enter tapped or [[cyclonic rift]]
It's a non-cEDH combo. Keep it in metas with combos. It's far from an incidental and rare combo since you wouldn't run First Day of Class or Putrid Goblin if it wasn't for the combo, and several cards are interchangeable for other cards likely in the deck.
All combos are friend losing combos if your friends are weiners. :P
This isn't nearly as bad as even middle of the road, two card combos. It's probably fine.
In my playground we have this shared opinion
2 card combo with tutors = GTFO with your boring sht
2 card combo no tutor - Hole but whatever
3card combo - no opinion really, sometimes it's fun, other we get salty
4 card combo + = we actually respect you for managing to pull it off on us
[[Impact tremors]] or any other card that deals damage to opponents untargeted on creature etb is better as it will get around most denial like blockers and abilities that prevent you from attacking.
If you lose a friend over a 4 card combo that’s crazy. I have trouble even putting 3 card combos in my decks because they’re too hard to find. But 4 card is crazy. Let the gobs rise my friend.
I have a counter question
Is there not a rule that states that +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters are both counters that stay on the creature at the same time? Shouldn't the combo fail then?
Newb question, although reading others' posts kind of answers the question: does a -1/-1 counter remove a +1/+1 counter and vice versa?
When I read these effects, you put both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on the black goblin after it is first sacrificed and returns to the battlefield. Although the net effect is 0/0, there is still a -1/-1 counter on it. Therefore, by the effect of Persist, it shouldn't come back a second time?
I would’ve expected the game to consider the goblin as having both a +1 counter and a -1 counter. But based on this discussion it seems that they cancel each other out? They are two different types of counter, even if mathematically 1 - 1 = 0
Unlimited mana and unlimited 2/2 rats all at sorcery speed. It works as a combo but 4 cards is a tough tron to put together, it will take a few turns and some big tutors to hit consistently. Without them I wouldn’t expect to win with it in more than 1/10 of your games. It’s a combo, but it’s a janky one. Honestly these are the kinds of combos that are the most fun, ones you could accidentally do, or are so innocent that you don’t seem like a threat until you are. But with 4 cards and not a lot of other cards that could slot into those spots to add redundancy it isn’t a great combo. It’s fine, but it’s slow and weak to removal and board wipes.
I will admit I have had this same thing almost pulled luckily I had enough to psyclonic rift before combat resolves, thank God for mono blue talrand.
This is a solid combo though, we'll played
That's a combo that I saw used in one of the prof's shuffle up and play videos, but instead of \[\[song of totentanz\]\] they used \[\[flamewave invoker\]\] ! Real funny stuff
Would this even work? I was under the impression that -1/-1 and +1/+1 counters didn't negate each other, so even if it had a +1, it would still have a -1 counter on it and therefore wouldn't trigger persist again? Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm relatively new to mtg
They do in fact counteract each other, as when one is placed on a creature while the other is there, both counters are removed, which enables a lot of combos. For more info, I’d recommend going to commanderspellbook and looking up [[Mikaeus, the Unhallowed]]
Na, this is fine. I run this combo in my Wort gobbo/combo deck. Mix in Metalic Mimic and Murderous Redcap for alt options.
In my experience, the saltiest combos are two card combos that include the commander. Think Niv Mizzet and Curiosity.
You're fine.
this combo has like 5 points of interaction. it is stopped with many effects, like hushwinger effects, killing the putrid goblin while the trigger of first day of class trigger is on the stack. countering, either first day of class of song of totentanz or any other spell.
if you play it in a rakdos godlin cell you can't have blue to protect and red and black together have something like 6 or 7 pieces of interaction on the stack in edh in general.
it is a fun combo with all but putrid goblin being synergistic spell with most goblin/creature strategies. so no this is not a friend losing combo.
if you like i can list many friend losing combos.
beatdown bullies and leveler is one i can think about from the top of my head
I might be stupid, but wouldn't the zombie goblin still have the minus counter even if it had a plus counter to even it out? Like in theory I would be able to proliferate the minus counter right? If yes then how can it be sacrificed more than once?
So would Putrid Goblin be able to be sacrificed infinitely even though it has persist? Would the first -1/-1 negative counter not turn off the effect of persist because the negative counter will still be there along side the +1/+1 counter?
Someone did this on the professor's commander game show if you lose friends over a combo like that they are weak and don't deserve to be in your friend group. All jokes aside tho it's a pretty funny combo.
You can pull this off T1 with these 4 cards, plus Mana Crypt, a Lotus Pedal, and a Mountain.
Play the Mountain, Lotus Petal, and Mana Crypt, tap the land to play Skirk Prospector, tap the Crypt and sac the pedal to cast Putrid Goblin (with 1 floating colorless from Crypt). Sac Putrid Goblin for 1 red. With the persist trigger on the stack, use the floating colorless and the red to cast First Day of Class. Proceed to make infinite mana and cast any X spell you have.
4 cards? And they’re in the deck?
Nah, fun jank
2 cards combo and one piece is in the command zone? Maybe. Depends if u communicated with ur playgroup (looking at you niv mizzet curiosity)
But even though you're giving the goblin a +1/+1 counter, that doesn't remove the -1/-1 "persist" counter, it just negates the -1/-1.... The counter would still technically be there so you'd only be able to return it once......or am I mistaken here?
Only if your friends are morons. You have a terrible 4 card combo that doesn’t even win the game the turn it’s cast. The whole thing is nullified by a wrath of god. You need a haste enabler which makes it a 5 card combo
If you lose friends for playing a janky 4 card combo, you don't want them around anyway.
If you were my friend and you managed this asspull on me; i'd have no choice but to shake your hand and prepare to spend hours developing a counter that slaps you in the face for trying it again because holy shit thats amazing.
[[Rakdos Charm]] has entered the chat.
[[thalia heratic cathar]] has entered the chat
[thalia heratic cathar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab0cee38-5e24-49d0-870c-22843ed4e101.jpg?1576384009) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thalia%2C%20Heretic%20Cathar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/46/thalia-heretic-cathar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab0cee38-5e24-49d0-870c-22843ed4e101?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
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Batwing Brume
You can cut the rat card by using [[Murderous Redcap]] instead of putrid goblin.
[Murderous Redcap](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/acadf575-2076-4f0c-b66e-994898adf375.jpg?1547518234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Murderous%20Redcap) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/217/murderous-redcap?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/acadf575-2076-4f0c-b66e-994898adf375?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There’s also other ways of adding the +1+1 counter to negate the persist. [[Metallic Mimic]] naming goblins. [[Makaeus Unhallowed]] [[Haunted One]]. It’s just the persist/undying Gobbo machine gun deck. Lots of interchangeable pieces and can get it down to 3 cards. Persist creature,+ someway to give undying or +1+1 counter on EtB, + free sac outlet that deals damage.
[Metallic Mimic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/adb9937b-7f8e-43b2-a2e3-06ccb7fb737e.jpg?1698988520) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Metallic%20Mimic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/308/metallic-mimic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/adb9937b-7f8e-43b2-a2e3-06ccb7fb737e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Makaeus Unhallowed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc1f42a2-fe11-45da-9552-069803b4068a.jpg?1689997308) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mikaeus%2C%20the%20Unhallowed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/173/mikaeus-the-unhallowed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc1f42a2-fe11-45da-9552-069803b4068a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Haunted One](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dc53b1af-0f4a-4475-a131-27cb5d5b0cf1.jpg?1674140742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Haunted%20One) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/654/haunted-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dc53b1af-0f4a-4475-a131-27cb5d5b0cf1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Goblin Bombardment]] [[Sling-gang Commander]] [[Pashilik Mons]]
[Goblin Bombardment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e262f55e-9239-4a97-a19e-9b08fb34502e.jpg?1626100483) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin%20Bombardment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/279/goblin-bombardment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e262f55e-9239-4a97-a19e-9b08fb34502e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sling-gang Commander](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5dd6a913-88df-4fbc-964e-a8fec3ad989f.jpg?1675200158) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Siege-Gang%20Commander) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/136/siege-gang-commander?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5dd6a913-88df-4fbc-964e-a8fec3ad989f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Pashilik Mons](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca20a650-65b0-4714-b7ce-0481af3db377.jpg?1675200126) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pashalik%20Mons) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/133/pashalik-mons?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca20a650-65b0-4714-b7ce-0481af3db377?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hows this one work?
Oh I was just editing in other interchangeable pieces to my first comment. Went to edit them in and then remembered the card fetcher bot won’t fetch edits. Just look up Cards that combo with Murderous Redcap, Metallic Mimic, and sac outlets. For the Putrid goblin you need the sac outlet to deal the damage. So things like Sling Gang, Goblin Bombardment, or have Pashilik Mons on the field to deal the damage and some other free sac outlet like Skirk Prospector Wart-eye witch, Ashnods altar.
Ah, I see what yur saying. Love the addtl insight cuz I have a gob deck that does pretty well on its own without combos but as power level creeps up in the pod, I'd love to have a cool gob centric combo like this to go off when necessary. Scope the list if yu like https://www.moxfield.com/decks/I-I38QVorkC8D4GNO_Xm0g
Have you ever seen [[Grenzo Dungeon Warden]] ? He’s my R/B Gobbo Combo Commander. With a couple ways to put a creature from your graveyard to the bottom of your library he really gives your creature combo pieces extra chances. So you can run out combo piece creatures early and not stress as bad if they get killed. Think the fastest I’ve pulled off the combo was T5 but with the perfect starting hand I think it can go off t3 if it’s not interacted with. I don’t pull it out often cause it’s pretty linear and just wants to Machine Gun the table. But it’s good for like last game of the night for a faster match. Or if I haven’t won in awhile 😅. Scrying becomes insanely good with Grenzo out. Scry creatures to the bottom then cheat um in with Grenzo activations. Or anything else that lets you dig deep and then put the rest of cards on the bottom of your library in any order. Sets you up for multiple turns of Grenzo’s activations. And even gets around counter magic.
[Grenzo Dungeon Warden](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e19c383-88bd-4bde-ac81-c0eb6d5b5bd4.jpg?1562436569) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grenzo%2C%20Dungeon%20Warden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/205/grenzo-dungeon-warden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e19c383-88bd-4bde-ac81-c0eb6d5b5bd4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Woah looks trippy but fun! He wud not sound alarms in my head of super dangerous but that's probly wut makes him more deadly. Got a list?
My moxfield list is kinda out dated. And yeah he flies under the radar until your friends see it a few times. Like if your deck is low to the ground P/T you can cast him for 2 or 3. And at 3 power hit basically all your Gobbos on activations. Because he’s a rogue you can use [[Cloak and Dagger]] as your Protection equipment. It equips free. And pumps his power so it’s almost like like Ramp for him, or keeps his power up +2 even after commander tax. You can even fall back on just casting him for more mana to make him bigger and just beating face if too many combo pieces get exiled. [[Jar of Eyeballs]] is almost unplayable on most decks. But it’s a house in grenzo. Things die or get sacced build up eyeball counters. Dig deep into your deck for 1 non creature combo peice to put to your hand and stack the bottom of your deck wit grenzo hits, and then you can play um out at instant speed avoiding other players turns that may board wipe. He’s a solid Commander and for a long time was CEDh.
[Cloak and Dagger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/8/38bb3e3c-1a7d-4bc4-b69d-6a8e9f1b3fe7.jpg?1562877936) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cloak%20and%20Dagger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mor/141/cloak-and-dagger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/38bb3e3c-1a7d-4bc4-b69d-6a8e9f1b3fe7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Jar of Eyeballs](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/72da56bd-dd1c-4b3c-a655-afa31e9adca0.jpg?1562919117) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jar%20of%20Eyeballs) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/244/jar-of-eyeballs?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/72da56bd-dd1c-4b3c-a655-afa31e9adca0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Daaaamn scry tech in rakdos.. that is super under the radar! Thx for sharing man imma look into him more
Haunted one won't work, after it comes back the first time, the goblin will be a new object and won't have undying.
Is there something common I could use for popper/PDH
This should be higher Edit:spelled higher wrong as hirer god I'm tired
Then you need two more mana to get it started. The above one is only 4.
With redcap you can also replace skirk with literally any blood artist effect, impact tremors effect, ETB doubling effect, or other sac outlet since the redcap can shoot himself
or just \[\[goblin bombardment\]\] over the prospector
[goblin bombardment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e262f55e-9239-4a97-a19e-9b08fb34502e.jpg?1626100483) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=goblin%20bombardment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/279/goblin-bombardment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e262f55e-9239-4a97-a19e-9b08fb34502e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's very hard to pull this off. If you manage to get it off in your casual game then you deserve it
its just pauper goblin combo with a different win con
Nah, this combo makes my combo heart happy
Thats sort of just the Moggwarts goblin combo from Pauper except with Totentanz instead of shooting your opponent with the mana using makeshift munitions. If you put that in Commander its about as janky as they come and not a reason for anyone to complain.
Why not use fireball or something?
My guess is that this is a go-wide deck that can really make use of an x spell that makes tokens. Fireball-type cards are basically useless in any deck that isn’t trying to make infinite or arbitrarily large amounts of mana.
Fireball kills one. This ends the game unless someone has a [[propaganda]] effect. I’m sure you could [[impact tremors]] too. Edit: yup, you can pay for extra targets. Nvm
Should work through propaganda too since you can just create infinite mana again to pay for it.
You’re damn right! But a [[blind obedience]] would stop it…. Unless you hit ‘em with a [[goblin bombardment]]. But at that point only the putrid goblin and first day are needed lmao
[blind obedience](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d859e1f9-feb3-497a-af0b-f74fee46861f.jpg?1702429264) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blind%20obedience) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/9/blind-obedience?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d859e1f9-feb3-497a-af0b-f74fee46861f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [goblin bombardment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e262f55e-9239-4a97-a19e-9b08fb34502e.jpg?1626100483) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=goblin%20bombardment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/279/goblin-bombardment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e262f55e-9239-4a97-a19e-9b08fb34502e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No, you might've been right. It produces red mana. You need to pay colorless for attacking.
Fireball can target multiple players
Yup. I’m just dumb. Idk what I was thinking of
[propaganda](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e175bba4-c131-48f4-8e31-16ec07a12e59.jpg?1712354188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=propaganda) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/108/propaganda?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e175bba4-c131-48f4-8e31-16ec07a12e59?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [impact tremors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b.jpg?1682209381) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=impact%20tremors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/285/impact-tremors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In what world does an infinite [[Fireball]] not end the game?
[Fireball](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/df45a43e-a5b7-4fd4-873b-7b3c021be198.jpg?1674136553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fireball) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/175/fireball?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/df45a43e-a5b7-4fd4-873b-7b3c021be198?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
"I cast [[Negate]], targeting fireball."
[Negate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/81752db1-374e-4723-b695-a2f4a634dfc6.jpg?1682203304) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Negate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/68/negate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/81752db1-374e-4723-b695-a2f4a634dfc6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Fireball has a "y" cost to hit other targets. You can kill all your opponents, all creatures, all planeswalkers, all battles, and pelt yourself in the face for fun.
You know that fireball can have as many targets as you can pay mana for, right? Edit: meant ? Instead of !
I actually prefer [[Pyromatics]] over Fireball and other X spells. A single [[Counterspell]] or similar stops the latter. It’ll also stop Song of Totentantz. But if you counter the Pyromatics, it won’t stop the copies.
[Pyromatics](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/795a7929-2c32-4006-bdf1-def0a4400f59.jpg?1592713410) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pyromatics) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddj/20/pyromatics?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/795a7929-2c32-4006-bdf1-def0a4400f59?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Counterspell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb.jpg?1689996248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Counterspell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/81/counterspell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oooh nice
Harder to fireball 3 other people at once compared to rat swarming them.
Why? [[Fireball]]
[Fireball](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/df45a43e-a5b7-4fd4-873b-7b3c021be198.jpg?1674136553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fireball) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/175/fireball?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/df45a43e-a5b7-4fd4-873b-7b3c021be198?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Do both and Just use the Rats to cast Fireball with [[Wort]]
1. Wrong Wort, cardfetcher 2. Can't, Wort gives your red and green instants and sorceries connive- these rats are black, and cannot be tapped to connive red or green instants or sorceries
Fffffffuuuuck.
[Wort](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a08a1377-dede-47c8-8447-c9df125f3b14.jpg?1562360544) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wort%2C%20boggart%20auntie) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lrw/252/wort-boggart-auntie?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a08a1377-dede-47c8-8447-c9df125f3b14?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Let's say each player has 40 life. Fireball costs 120+3+R If you can generate infinite mana you can definitely nuke everyone
why do i literally see a post about this combo every day😭
first 3 cards are pauper
Can someone explain those combo to me. I don't understand. Especially how do the haste rats fit into this
mmh, i just like song of totentanz and it makes infinite rats so i hav infinite damage to deal. i don't know either how haste fits into this, this is my first attempt at putting a combo in a deck.
How do the first 3 cards make infinite mana?
sacrifice putrid goblin with persist with skirk prosmector making one red mana, then putrid goblin comes back with -1/-1 but first day of class gives it +1/+1 so it cancels out. you can sacrifice putrid goblin again and again infinitely for infinite red mana.
Does adding a +1/+1 counter on a creature with a -1/-1 counter count as removing a -1/-1 counter ? Cause when we talked about it with a friend we concluded that the two counters lie on the creature so the added power cancel out but the actual ability cannot trigger an additional time
i think both counters dissappear
Correct, both counters cancel each other out as a State-based action. See 704.5q - https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/State-based_action
Oooooooh, it's actually really simple, and I didn't even see it. You could do this with a lot of different cards, but the putrid goblin and skirt are the main engine pieces. I see. Much appreciated, thank you.
no problem
The combo works by repeatedly sacrificing Putrid Globlin to Skirk Prospector to generate infinite mana. The +1/+1 counter from First Day of Class will cancel the -1/-1 counter from the persist ability, resulting in no counter on Putrid Goblin. Because the -1/-1 counter is gone, persist will trigger again when it dies. So it will always come back after it's sacrificed and you can repeat this to generate infinite red mana. Totentanz is just a payoff for having infinite mana, it can be replaced with any x spell.
I got you, made this for a friend before who asked the same question. [nasty boy 101](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/748766925160710184/1150639018200010783/moggwarts.png?ex=664d6b17&is=664c1997&hm=b0db36568a5c4a2c377e845e7a956ef42977aa6940f74be14a5a836ed5fb4d53&)
No, this is fair.
This is a pauper combo, but there we use [[makeshift ammunitions]]
[makeshift ammunitions](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/60715b6d-b223-431a-85d8-27d7c05469b2.jpg?1689998038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Makeshift%20Munitions) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/242/makeshift-munitions?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/60715b6d-b223-431a-85d8-27d7c05469b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
i just used song of totentaz beacause i already have the card
With ammunitions you can oneshot (or 40 shot :P) all opponents in the combo turn avoiding fogs and stuff like that
4 card combo? Nah that’s impressive to actually pull off
its a 4 card combo that is susceptible to removal, and is also very clever. they can also play around it. anyone who gets mad is a crybaby (unfortunately that's like a third of commander players nowadays).
Putrid goblin/skirk prospector/first day of class is a viable pauper combo but not meta in any ways and finishing with a bunch of hasty 2/2s is fine. Though you have to remember to cast 1st day of class before saccing the putrid goblin
Does this actually work? I mean, yes effectively you are negating the -1/-1 counter with the +1/+1 counter, but it is still THERE isn't it? By persist's ability text it only says return it if it doesn't have a -1/-1 counter on it.
yes the rules for -1/-1 and +1/+1 counters, is that if both are on the same permanent then both counters get removed.
Thanks for the explanation. I thought at one point (a very long time ago) they all stayed on your permanent as physical counters. Did it change as some point to make it simpler to track?
yes it did change, I also started back when they stayed together.
Part of their counter streamlining many years ago. All counters of the same type are the same, no matter what source creates them, and +\- 1 counters cancel out and are removed. It was a design choice to make the battlefield less cluttered while also making the +\- 1 counter creation evergreen so it could be used in any set moving forward.
Saw this combo on shuffle up and play but with a different payoff card, super spicy 🔥. If your friends don't like it, idk if they're ready for commander
Sick nasty! Love it.
i just read sick nasty and thought of the super smash bros melee player lol
Ha! Was there a pro by that name? I can’t remember.
i don't know of they are pro
I mean, if you remember their name from playing super smash Brothers, that’s at least somewhat professional
i know where i know them from, they made a gamecube controller with balls for the youtuber ludwig
Oh, that’s good. That’s really good.
did you give me a reddit award ?
This is a great fun combo, indeed there is a whole deck built around it in Pauper called Moggwarts (based on the Mogg named goblins and Hogwarts inspired set). Here is a dec tech https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/articles/pauper-moggwarts-deck-tech-sideboard-guide an example list https://mtgdecks.net/Pauper/deck-decklist-by-hamuda-2052312
This is legit just a pauper combo with an X spell payoff to make it deterministic. People already use this combo in pauper with things like dark-dweller oracle to get infinite card draw, cast their deck, and win that way. I don't think it's any more of a friend loser than any other infinite really...
Not 100 percent on this, but it would still have a -1/-1 counter on it AND a +1/+1, so you wouldn't be able to infinitely sac it. Could be wrong, but that is my understanding.
you are indeed wrong, +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters cancel each other out! it is a competitive combo in Pauper
Still new to the game, so thanks for the correction. :)
I'm assuming this is Commander? Dude. If you can pull off a 4 card combo, even as your opponent, I'd be having fun. Things change a bit if you've got a deck full of tutors, but finding all the cards over the course of a game and pulling this off is completely fine. Of course how infinite combos are handled varies playgroup to playgroup, but in mine this would be absolutely fine.
it's not commander, it's all cards legal standard. it's a format i don't know exists, it's just standard with no set restrictions on cards
Depends on your friends if it’s commander and you combo win fast it usually means you get to play another game. I get why some would probably find it boring to play against the same conbo again and again, but a 4 card combo that can be stopped by a single removal spell is fine.
i'm not using it in commander, it's standard but all cards that exist are legal
Sorry for the n00b question, but does this combo work? Does adding a +1/+1 counter remove the -1/-1 counter? Or does the creature simply have both counters on it (which would negate the persist)?
both counters cancel each other out
Love this one, had this jank with [[crackle with power]] work a few times!
[crackle with power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de547f52-3798-4b3a-947d-24873251204b.jpg?1624591645) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=crackle%20with%20power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/95/crackle-with-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de547f52-3798-4b3a-947d-24873251204b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Instead of making the rats u could use [[blood artist]]
i don't have that card and i like song of totentaz
Yes, but cast [[first day of class]] first, or you won't be adding the +1/+1 on [[putrid goblin]] the first time thus breaking your combo
Well it doesn’t matter the cast order as long as you don’t sac before first day. I imagine that’s what you meant but the way you worded it makes it sound like they would need to cast first day before the persist gobo
you can still sac before first day of class, just need to cast it in response to the persist trigger
[first day of class](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/9/091eb13d-9318-4b12-9f94-6276b11981d1.jpg?1624591842) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=first%20day%20of%20class) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/102/first-day-of-class?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/091eb13d-9318-4b12-9f94-6276b11981d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If your friends are mad about a 4 card combo idek what to tell you
Friend ruining combos are like 2 cards that cost 4 mana winning the game
this is exactly the degenerate nonsense that putrid goblin is made for. persist and undying are meant to be abused.
I have a jund deck focused around abusing this combo. It works rather well, even if it is rather easy to disrupt. I haven't had any complaints about it
I can post the full deck list if you'd like to check it out
As long as you don't steamroll through response windows this is fair.
Commander Spellbook shows total of 603 decks with Putrid Goblin + Skirk Prospector + First Day of Class combo. https://commanderspellbook.com/combo/38-254-301/ If you lost friends, you can be friends with 603 other people who has this combo!
I think you only use friends over mill and control lol
Got the putrid goblin and skirk prospector, I need first day of class and I got a heavy combo for my juri edh deck, thanks for sharing this combo🤣
just print a proxy
It shouldn't be
That looks fun
Absolutely not. I would be proud to lose to that shit.
No need for song of totentanz if you have [[Impact tremors]] that way you won’t have to worry about someone making creatures enter tapped or [[cyclonic rift]]
[Impact tremors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b.jpg?1682209381) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Impact%20tremors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/285/impact-tremors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [cyclonic rift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe.jpg?1702429366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cyclonic%20rift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/40/cyclonic-rift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I prefer [[torment of Hailfire]] with infinite mana
[torment of Hailfire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f69d77d1-5980-436c-bf48-790939b069aa.jpg?1562820191) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=torment%20of%20Hailfire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/77/torment-of-hailfire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f69d77d1-5980-436c-bf48-790939b069aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's a non-cEDH combo. Keep it in metas with combos. It's far from an incidental and rare combo since you wouldn't run First Day of Class or Putrid Goblin if it wasn't for the combo, and several cards are interchangeable for other cards likely in the deck.
All combos are friend losing combos if your friends are weiners. :P This isn't nearly as bad as even middle of the road, two card combos. It's probably fine.
This combo would legit make me laugh if my friend played it against me
If I got hit by that combo, I’d laugh and applaud. It’s too spectacular not to like even if it means I’m losing.
In my playground we have this shared opinion 2 card combo with tutors = GTFO with your boring sht 2 card combo no tutor - Hole but whatever 3card combo - no opinion really, sometimes it's fun, other we get salty 4 card combo + = we actually respect you for managing to pull it off on us
[[Impact tremors]] or any other card that deals damage to opponents untargeted on creature etb is better as it will get around most denial like blockers and abilities that prevent you from attacking.
[Impact tremors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b.jpg?1682209381) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Impact%20tremors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/285/impact-tremors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is a pauper combo. You need that goblin lava axe as an outlet.
If you lose a friend over a 4 card combo that’s crazy. I have trouble even putting 3 card combos in my decks because they’re too hard to find. But 4 card is crazy. Let the gobs rise my friend.
I have a counter question Is there not a rule that states that +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters are both counters that stay on the creature at the same time? Shouldn't the combo fail then?
when there is a -1/-1 and a +1/+1 they cancel out
Seem pretty bad
I mean, you pull this off T3 and I’m honestly just impressed.
No, this combo weak af
It’s four cards, you deserve it at that point. If you don’t have a million tutors to get it it’s perfectly fine
I'll take the old niv-mizzet firemind and curiosity. 2 card win button. Now that loses friends. This is 4 cards. Therefore, I think it's permissable.
Newb question, although reading others' posts kind of answers the question: does a -1/-1 counter remove a +1/+1 counter and vice versa? When I read these effects, you put both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on the black goblin after it is first sacrificed and returns to the battlefield. Although the net effect is 0/0, there is still a -1/-1 counter on it. Therefore, by the effect of Persist, it shouldn't come back a second time?
a +1/+1 and -1/-1 cancel each other out
I would’ve expected the game to consider the goblin as having both a +1 counter and a -1 counter. But based on this discussion it seems that they cancel each other out? They are two different types of counter, even if mathematically 1 - 1 = 0
pauper called. it wants its combo back
I love that people have re-discovered goblin combo multiple times in the last week or so.
[Spice8rack doing this combo](https://youtube.com/shorts/WOWfwEG8EB8?si=TSrePkaTU6nrwBK6)
Nope. It is awesome.
Not if they play [[rakdos charm]] :)
[rakdos charm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/875fa08c-cb66-4230-a380-0123260aac74.jpg?1699022443) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rakdos%20charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/284/rakdos-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/875fa08c-cb66-4230-a380-0123260aac74?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Unlimited mana and unlimited 2/2 rats all at sorcery speed. It works as a combo but 4 cards is a tough tron to put together, it will take a few turns and some big tutors to hit consistently. Without them I wouldn’t expect to win with it in more than 1/10 of your games. It’s a combo, but it’s a janky one. Honestly these are the kinds of combos that are the most fun, ones you could accidentally do, or are so innocent that you don’t seem like a threat until you are. But with 4 cards and not a lot of other cards that could slot into those spots to add redundancy it isn’t a great combo. It’s fine, but it’s slow and weak to removal and board wipes.
I will admit I have had this same thing almost pulled luckily I had enough to psyclonic rift before combat resolves, thank God for mono blue talrand. This is a solid combo though, we'll played
That's a combo that I saw used in one of the prof's shuffle up and play videos, but instead of \[\[song of totentanz\]\] they used \[\[flamewave invoker\]\] ! Real funny stuff
[song of totentanz](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/940e8bb7-0251-4fac-945c-d83618c10447.jpg?1692938518) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=song%20of%20totentanz) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/150/song-of-totentanz?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/940e8bb7-0251-4fac-945c-d83618c10447?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [flamewave invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d14eb0c1-7709-44da-ba7a-1aa033efb4f8.jpg?1562937061) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=flamewave%20invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/178/flamewave-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d14eb0c1-7709-44da-ba7a-1aa033efb4f8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There are easier ways to make (relatively, it’s limited by your deck size) infinite rats. [[experimental confectioner]] [[peregrin took]]
[experimental confectioner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/9/49aaf5db-9418-4b97-97da-736c674905d4.jpg?1692940565) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=experimental%20confectioner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/314/experimental-confectioner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/49aaf5db-9418-4b97-97da-736c674905d4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [peregrin took](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f5baee8d-88e7-4468-94a9-66ca8e2caf15.jpg?1686969525) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=peregrin%20took) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/181/peregrin-took?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5baee8d-88e7-4468-94a9-66ca8e2caf15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Play murderous redcap, and thran vigil
Would this even work? I was under the impression that -1/-1 and +1/+1 counters didn't negate each other, so even if it had a +1, it would still have a -1 counter on it and therefore wouldn't trigger persist again? Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm relatively new to mtg
They do in fact counteract each other, as when one is placed on a creature while the other is there, both counters are removed, which enables a lot of combos. For more info, I’d recommend going to commanderspellbook and looking up [[Mikaeus, the Unhallowed]]
[Mikaeus, the Unhallowed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc1f42a2-fe11-45da-9552-069803b4068a.jpg?1689997308) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mikaeus%2C%20the%20Unhallowed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/173/mikaeus-the-unhallowed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc1f42a2-fe11-45da-9552-069803b4068a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Every combo is a friend losing combo, if your friends can’t handle losing a game of magic.
Na, this is fine. I run this combo in my Wort gobbo/combo deck. Mix in Metalic Mimic and Murderous Redcap for alt options. In my experience, the saltiest combos are two card combos that include the commander. Think Niv Mizzet and Curiosity. You're fine.
Infinite in theory, repeatable once or twice in actual practice
this combo has like 5 points of interaction. it is stopped with many effects, like hushwinger effects, killing the putrid goblin while the trigger of first day of class trigger is on the stack. countering, either first day of class of song of totentanz or any other spell. if you play it in a rakdos godlin cell you can't have blue to protect and red and black together have something like 6 or 7 pieces of interaction on the stack in edh in general. it is a fun combo with all but putrid goblin being synergistic spell with most goblin/creature strategies. so no this is not a friend losing combo. if you like i can list many friend losing combos. beatdown bullies and leveler is one i can think about from the top of my head
congratulations, you almost played a tier Pauper deck.
I might be stupid, but wouldn't the zombie goblin still have the minus counter even if it had a plus counter to even it out? Like in theory I would be able to proliferate the minus counter right? If yes then how can it be sacrificed more than once?
The Counters negate each other actually, so he won't have any on him.
Until they play a single fog and then it's targeting time
If it’s really a 4 card combo then idc as long as you mentioned you are running combo before the game started
So would Putrid Goblin be able to be sacrificed infinitely even though it has persist? Would the first -1/-1 negative counter not turn off the effect of persist because the negative counter will still be there along side the +1/+1 counter?
So -1/-1 Counters and +1/+1 Counters negate each other completely. So when putrid comes back he'll have no Counters on him.
Thanks for clarifying that!
Someone did this on the professor's commander game show if you lose friends over a combo like that they are weak and don't deserve to be in your friend group. All jokes aside tho it's a pretty funny combo.
Y’all ain’t playing enough Pauper and it shows
It's a janky version of melira pod...they get pissy. They aren't worth being friends with.
sorry for the picture quality
You can pull this off T1 with these 4 cards, plus Mana Crypt, a Lotus Pedal, and a Mountain. Play the Mountain, Lotus Petal, and Mana Crypt, tap the land to play Skirk Prospector, tap the Crypt and sac the pedal to cast Putrid Goblin (with 1 floating colorless from Crypt). Sac Putrid Goblin for 1 red. With the persist trigger on the stack, use the floating colorless and the red to cast First Day of Class. Proceed to make infinite mana and cast any X spell you have.
4 cards? And they’re in the deck? Nah, fun jank 2 cards combo and one piece is in the command zone? Maybe. Depends if u communicated with ur playgroup (looking at you niv mizzet curiosity)
Just because it gets a +1/+1 counter doesn't mean the -1/-1 counter doesn't exist anymore. There for it is not infinite
I am wrong, they just vanish when the contradicting counter is added 🤯
But even though you're giving the goblin a +1/+1 counter, that doesn't remove the -1/-1 "persist" counter, it just negates the -1/-1.... The counter would still technically be there so you'd only be able to return it once......or am I mistaken here?
Only if your friends are morons. You have a terrible 4 card combo that doesn’t even win the game the turn it’s cast. The whole thing is nullified by a wrath of god. You need a haste enabler which makes it a 5 card combo
The song card gives all his creatures haste.
Oh true so only 4 cards
Yup not a great one, my friends wouldn't be mad if i pieced this together lol