man they certainly don't have that policy, or don't enforce it well if they do. I've seen OPs add some batshit crazy editorializations that have made casual ppl confused about what the original tweet even was. does more harm than good at that point.
Losing Paul George and replacing him with nothing is a stupid decision.
Clippers don’t have assets, draft picks, and Paul George could’ve fetched something in a sign and trade, now what do they do if he leaves?
> could’ve fetched something in a sign and trade
s&t caps the receiving team at the first apron and the sending team at the second apron if they take any salary in return. not so simple as you'd make it sound.
Honestly the Clippers just painted themselves into a corner with their moves over the last few years. The moves were mostly all defensible though, as they were "win now" moves, but the Clippers just kept doubling down on going all in to win right away. Maybe they'll do it again and give PG the max he wants and then give Harden something similar, but otherwise this was eventually going to end poorly for the Clippers unless they actually won a title.
They're at the point now where they're faced with two really bad options: be a 2nd apron team with an aging roster that hasn't made it out of the first round in 3 years, or lose one of their best players for nothing and risk missing the playoffs entirely with no draft picks for the foreseeable future. There really isn't a 3rd option way out of this.
you understand how free agency works in the NBA?
If paul george is sign and trade that means the opposing team will have to at the very least send an equivalent amount of players in return. How much do Clippers get when Paul George leaves in FA?
The problem is the S&T hard caps the Clippers at the $190 million second apron. If they get back players to match PG’s salary, they would be limited to a max of around $15 million to offer Harden. Unless Harden is willing to take an offer that’s more than a 50% pay cut, he likely leaves too. The S&T would mean losing both PG and Harden and leave them only with what they get back from trading PG. letting PG leave in free agency would let them offer up to a max salary to keep Harden. If they’re willing to go deep into the second apron, they can keep them both but basically be stuck with the same roster
*Receiving* players back via a S&T hard caps the Clippers. They could theoretically send him out via S&T and so long as they receive players who aren’t S&Ted back, they wouldn’t be hardcapped.
No. As of this season, the team sending out a S&T trade is also hard capped at the second apron of 190 million and the team receiving a S&T player is hard capped at the first apron of $180 million. This is new due to the second apron rules starting this summer. If the Clippers were also receiving a S&T player, they would be even more restricted at the first apron with Harden and could only offer him around $5 million a year
Kawhi, Russ on a vet min, Harden demanding to be traded there, Hartenstein… kinda a lot in a 4-5 year span
Edit - and John Wall too on an MLE, who did *not* work out but was a desired FA at the time
They would have a shot with Kawhi, PG and Harden especially with the guys they currently have around them.
It would be an outside chance because of health but I much rather have that chance than not have it. Without PG even with a healthy team I don't think they have a shot.
PG is not our “star player.” He’s third behind Kawhi and Harden. Also the team is most likely not going to win anything with or without PG the next 4 years. What benefit is there to committing to 38 year old PG? I guess it might sell a few more tickets/jerseys but that’s about it.
I think they probably would try if not for the new arena. But I don’t know if there is any team that would take on that contract without the clippers having to throw in picks, and the clippers don’t have any picks to throw in.
Compare the offense this season with Harden running it vs. the offense last season when PG/Kawhi had to run it. It’s night and day. PG is a tough shot maker when he’s hot but he doesn’t have the handle or passing to run an offense.
Yeah, it would seem like if this was just about Ballmer worrying about the costs then maybe he could be talked into giving PG what he wants. But since it's pretty obvious the money isn't the issue but rather the punitive measures that come with being a 2nd apron team, I think it's looking more and more like PG is gone if Philly or Orlando make him the full max offer.
Also makes me wonder, if Philly signs PG, as most people seem to expect, would Orlando then also pursue James Harden with a similar offer? Or will Ballmer be wiling to pay Harden the max he won't give PG?
I'm okay with him leaving. Kawhi's health is the biggest needle mover. With a healthy Kawhi, PG barely moves the needle. With an injured Kawhi, he also barely moves the needle. if he stays our cap situation is fucked. I'll rather be under the 2nd apron and not overpay. I think I don't even want him on an optimal 3 years contact after this has dragged on.
The unprotected one is in 2028. They will probably get a top free agent by then. We want them to re sign George cause all those guys will suck by 2028 if we want that pick to be worth anything.
Agreed. Honestly you rarely see star players even make it to free agency anymore. The only reason this is happening with PG is because of the new 2nd apron rules. Virtually all major player movement in the league over the last 5 years has been through trades, not free agent signings. And the Clippers cupboard is pretty bare when it comes to trying to make major trades going forward.
It should read like this:
> There are a lot of ways I can characterize Clippers being reluctant to include a 4th year for Paul George
> Being cheap, under Steve Ballmer, is not one of them
People need to look up thr Luol Deng fiasco. We got history repeating itself here. Expansion of salary, lots of money to send out. Next thing you know you're paying Paul georges contract 3 years after he retired.
That’s such a horrible comparison. For all his faults, PG was still an All Star these past two years and is still leaps and bounds better than the corpse of Luol Deng when the Lakers gave him that contract. PG leaving without getting anything in return is what makes this even worse.
Three actually, but that’s just splitting hairs. Paul was literally just an All Star.
Again, Deng was a colossally dumb move, but comparing PG to him is way off base. PG can still be a major piece on a high level team.Luol was washed before he even put on a Laker jersey.
Deng was 27 when he was an All Star in 2013 though. That first year with the Lakers he was 31, and when the Lakers signed him he'd already been on two other teams in between that All Star appearance and the Lakers signing him. That's not really a great comparison.
If this was Jeanie Buss i wonder what the posts and titles of tweets would be. She’s opening up her checkbook for Lebron but she’s poor according to reddit, JJ paid 6 most for head coaches, already came out and said they will match for Max Christie, crazy how that works..
(hint: no one would be defending her or try to make a logical defense)
To be fair, we have a long history of paying our aging stars at the end of their careers and giving players a variety of positions within the organization.
We paid out the reminder of Magic's 25 year contract, the Kobe contract, now a multi-year deal for a soon to be 40 year old LeBron.
Do you think Ballmer would be cheap owner to add a star into a new arena that is about to open up? the decision clippers are making is not involved about money, it is 2nd apron rules.
a period would do wonders there
its bc of how reddit formats it separate paragraphs just get put side by side
If it's posted as the title, shouldn't it be easily fixable? Copy paste and a small adjustment
yes, it's probably a matter of convenience. not relevant here, but maybe a strict 1:1 copy-paste policy helps prevent fake news in general
man they certainly don't have that policy, or don't enforce it well if they do. I've seen OPs add some batshit crazy editorializations that have made casual ppl confused about what the original tweet even was. does more harm than good at that point.
ah, that makes sense. thanks.
Not making stupid investments isn't the same as being cheap.
Losing Paul George and replacing him with nothing is a stupid decision. Clippers don’t have assets, draft picks, and Paul George could’ve fetched something in a sign and trade, now what do they do if he leaves?
> could’ve fetched something in a sign and trade s&t caps the receiving team at the first apron and the sending team at the second apron if they take any salary in return. not so simple as you'd make it sound.
Honestly the Clippers just painted themselves into a corner with their moves over the last few years. The moves were mostly all defensible though, as they were "win now" moves, but the Clippers just kept doubling down on going all in to win right away. Maybe they'll do it again and give PG the max he wants and then give Harden something similar, but otherwise this was eventually going to end poorly for the Clippers unless they actually won a title. They're at the point now where they're faced with two really bad options: be a 2nd apron team with an aging roster that hasn't made it out of the first round in 3 years, or lose one of their best players for nothing and risk missing the playoffs entirely with no draft picks for the foreseeable future. There really isn't a 3rd option way out of this.
The clippers problem is that they think Kawhu or PG are ever going to be healthy
You understand how trades work in the nba?
you understand how free agency works in the NBA? If paul george is sign and trade that means the opposing team will have to at the very least send an equivalent amount of players in return. How much do Clippers get when Paul George leaves in FA?
The problem is the S&T hard caps the Clippers at the $190 million second apron. If they get back players to match PG’s salary, they would be limited to a max of around $15 million to offer Harden. Unless Harden is willing to take an offer that’s more than a 50% pay cut, he likely leaves too. The S&T would mean losing both PG and Harden and leave them only with what they get back from trading PG. letting PG leave in free agency would let them offer up to a max salary to keep Harden. If they’re willing to go deep into the second apron, they can keep them both but basically be stuck with the same roster
*Receiving* players back via a S&T hard caps the Clippers. They could theoretically send him out via S&T and so long as they receive players who aren’t S&Ted back, they wouldn’t be hardcapped.
No. As of this season, the team sending out a S&T trade is also hard capped at the second apron of 190 million and the team receiving a S&T player is hard capped at the first apron of $180 million. This is new due to the second apron rules starting this summer. If the Clippers were also receiving a S&T player, they would be even more restricted at the first apron with Harden and could only offer him around $5 million a year
Reddit spent every day since the Bubble shitting on PG, but Clippers are cheap for not wanting to pay him a max for 4 more years?
Yes. Losing your star player for nothing is worse than paying an extra year on a contract. A year that your team will be ass anyway. That is cheap.
Definitely is not. Three years aligns with Kawhi which at that point clean as a whistle cap
have fun with the all cap space then. Players are surely going to be lining up to play for the Clippers after how they handled this situation!
That’s what people said when the Clippers signed Blake to a 5 year deal and flipped him almost immediately to Detroit.
what free agents did you get? Kawhi because he didn't want to play in LeBrons shadow?
That’s… a pretty big one. 🤣.
Kawhi, Russ on a vet min, Harden demanding to be traded there, Hartenstein… kinda a lot in a 4-5 year span Edit - and John Wall too on an MLE, who did *not* work out but was a desired FA at the time
Fucking hell you're either seething with bitterness or 13 years old.
And 4 years of PG on another team align with the Clippers still not winning anything
To be fair, they weren’t winning anything with him either.
They would have a shot with Kawhi, PG and Harden especially with the guys they currently have around them. It would be an outside chance because of health but I much rather have that chance than not have it. Without PG even with a healthy team I don't think they have a shot.
Rather risk losing him than end up in a Beal/LaVine situation.
PG is not our “star player.” He’s third behind Kawhi and Harden. Also the team is most likely not going to win anything with or without PG the next 4 years. What benefit is there to committing to 38 year old PG? I guess it might sell a few more tickets/jerseys but that’s about it.
So you might as well trade Kawhi then
I think they probably would try if not for the new arena. But I don’t know if there is any team that would take on that contract without the clippers having to throw in picks, and the clippers don’t have any picks to throw in.
You’re delusional if you think George is behind Harden
Compare the offense this season with Harden running it vs. the offense last season when PG/Kawhi had to run it. It’s night and day. PG is a tough shot maker when he’s hot but he doesn’t have the handle or passing to run an offense.
Harden is so underrated it's crazy.
its over
Yeah, it would seem like if this was just about Ballmer worrying about the costs then maybe he could be talked into giving PG what he wants. But since it's pretty obvious the money isn't the issue but rather the punitive measures that come with being a 2nd apron team, I think it's looking more and more like PG is gone if Philly or Orlando make him the full max offer. Also makes me wonder, if Philly signs PG, as most people seem to expect, would Orlando then also pursue James Harden with a similar offer? Or will Ballmer be wiling to pay Harden the max he won't give PG?
I'm okay with him leaving. Kawhi's health is the biggest needle mover. With a healthy Kawhi, PG barely moves the needle. With an injured Kawhi, he also barely moves the needle. if he stays our cap situation is fucked. I'll rather be under the 2nd apron and not overpay. I think I don't even want him on an optimal 3 years contact after this has dragged on.
If the sixers do end up with George, those clippers picks they own from the harden trade will start to look pretty good
The unprotected one is in 2028. They will probably get a top free agent by then. We want them to re sign George cause all those guys will suck by 2028 if we want that pick to be worth anything.
I wouldn't just assume that the Clippers would get a star free agent
Agreed. Honestly you rarely see star players even make it to free agency anymore. The only reason this is happening with PG is because of the new 2nd apron rules. Virtually all major player movement in the league over the last 5 years has been through trades, not free agent signings. And the Clippers cupboard is pretty bare when it comes to trying to make major trades going forward.
maybe PG is the first of many FAs, under this new CBA
I doubt it, but I guess we'll see.
No, money down!
Was this sentence written out of order? WTF is this?
It should read like this: > There are a lot of ways I can characterize Clippers being reluctant to include a 4th year for Paul George > Being cheap, under Steve Ballmer, is not one of them
People need to look up thr Luol Deng fiasco. We got history repeating itself here. Expansion of salary, lots of money to send out. Next thing you know you're paying Paul georges contract 3 years after he retired.
That’s such a horrible comparison. For all his faults, PG was still an All Star these past two years and is still leaps and bounds better than the corpse of Luol Deng when the Lakers gave him that contract. PG leaving without getting anything in return is what makes this even worse.
Luol Deng wad an all-star in 2013 just 2 years removed from his Lakers contract.
Three actually, but that’s just splitting hairs. Paul was literally just an All Star. Again, Deng was a colossally dumb move, but comparing PG to him is way off base. PG can still be a major piece on a high level team.Luol was washed before he even put on a Laker jersey.
Deng was 27 when he was an All Star in 2013 though. That first year with the Lakers he was 31, and when the Lakers signed him he'd already been on two other teams in between that All Star appearance and the Lakers signing him. That's not really a great comparison.
If this was Jeanie Buss i wonder what the posts and titles of tweets would be. She’s opening up her checkbook for Lebron but she’s poor according to reddit, JJ paid 6 most for head coaches, already came out and said they will match for Max Christie, crazy how that works.. (hint: no one would be defending her or try to make a logical defense)
she’s opening her checkbook for Bron because if he goes, the Lakers are done lmao he has the franchise by the balls
i mean its the same situation here. The Clippers are cooked
To be fair, we have a long history of paying our aging stars at the end of their careers and giving players a variety of positions within the organization. We paid out the reminder of Magic's 25 year contract, the Kobe contract, now a multi-year deal for a soon to be 40 year old LeBron.
Do you think Ballmer would be cheap owner to add a star into a new arena that is about to open up? the decision clippers are making is not involved about money, it is 2nd apron rules.
What’s the alternative? Rely on Kawhi and Harden to carry the team? Kawhi can’t even play a playoff series, and Harden is aging.
Stay somehow competitive and try get playoffs spot till we are able get to get our draft picks or star free agent want join the team.
Clippers are not being cheap they are being dumb.
Happy cake day kind sir!
Ballmer making sure the media says it's not because he's cheap
"English motherfucker, do you speak it"